Say Anything Blog

I was amazed that the lawyers for the city of NY actually let this moronic idea go forward in the first place. And this pretty much puts the lie to the leftard meme that anyone can just walk in of the street and buy any gun they want, no background check needed. They had to go through an illegal process, just like any criminal would, to do this. Charges should be brought on every person involved in this stupidity, Bloomberg on down.

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The Eighteenth Amendment has not in terms empowered Congress to authorize any one to violate the criminal laws of a state. And Congress has never purported to do so. Compare Maryland v. Soper, 270 U.S. 9 , 46 S. Ct. 185. The terms of appointment of federal prohibition agents do not purport to confer upon them authority to violate any criminal law. Their superior officer, the Secretary of the Treasury, has not instructed them to commit [277 U.S. 438, 483] crime on behalf of the United States. It may be assumed that the Attorney General of the United States did not give any such instruction.

Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen…
The government is the potent omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that the end justifies the means—to declare that the government may commit crimes—would bring terrible retribution.

-- Justice Louis D. Brandeis, dissenting, OLMSTEAD v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438 (1928)

...for great justice

The State of New York may have been wrong in the way they went about trying to keep guns out of the hands of felons in their state, but they were certainly not wrong that someone should have been checking to see that the person with the background check was the person receiving the weapon. When Virginia failed to do so, they harmed the citizens of New york. Is the mayor of New York just supposed so shrug helplessly. I’m sure many complaints were lodged with the state government of Virginia before this action was taken. Our General Assembly has once again refused to curb gun sales without background checks at gunshows where private dealers routinely sell to criminals. It does not make any sense. Any kind or gun control in Va. is a joke. The crooks are better armed than the police.

Margie, I disagree.

I used to sell weapons out of an Alexandria, Virginia gunshop.  We checked ID’s, ensured all the forms were filled out and records books checked.  We even had 3-day waiting periods for handgun purchasers for those who did not have a Virgina CCW.

Also, I attended many a Virginia gunshow.  Of all the booths I saw, in numerous Virginia locations, every single one I inquired at required forms and NICS checks.  However, speaking of government lawbreaking and overreaching, the Virginia State Police got their chains yanked by unlawfully harassing gun purchasers at Virginia gun shows.

With regard to New York, their draconian measures are completely repugnant to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution (for that matter, all laws that fly in the face of the 2nd’s clear prohibition are suspect, at best). 

They have a much bigger problem than Virginia.  If Virginia is selling guns to even more Virginians than New Yorkers, how come instead of having much lower crime rates than Virginia, NYC’s crime rates are sky-high and VA’s streets aren’t awash in blood?

I will venture to guess two reasons:

1) You’ve completely removed the deterrent of having law-abiding armed citizens to shoot back at your criminals and it has created an atmosphere that attracts criminals.  They can rape, rob, burgle and kill, all secure in the knowledge that ‘law-abiding’ New Yorkers cannot and therefore will not shoot back at them.  The same cannot be said for any state where shall-issue CCW has been passed.

2) For the reason given above, you have attracted and retained more of a recidivist criminal element in NYC.

NY’s problem is that it focuses on guns and not the criminals.  You go after the gang-bangers and repeat violent criminals, your crime will go down. Also, fully 29 percent of our Federal prison population are illegal aliens and I would imagine that our State prison populations may have similar statistics.  We are not getting the best from Mexico and parts South.  We are getting violent gang members and the Federal government has shown complete contempt for its own responsibility for going after violent illegal aliens, allowing many of these animals to amass long criminals histories without taking them off the streets.

To focus on criminals who use guns in conjunction with crime, there have been some experiments. 

In Richmond, Virgina, they used something called Project Exile.  In Florida, we call it Counter- Attack.  Use a gun in a felony and you do 30 years. 

Between the two, added to that fact that there have been numerous defensive gun uses year-in, year-out, it keeps things pretty quiet.

You’re wrong to say that guns are the problem.  Criminals are the problem.  Take them off the street and you will have a safer place for the rest of us.

...for great justice

So, Move_zig, the gun dealers that NY caught selling guns to person (A) under the background check of person (B), did they, or did they not break the law.  I put the odds of getting a straight answer on this at about 100-1.  But, but, but NY… crime… draconian… 2nd ammendment…

Yeah, I support all those.  I do not, however, support gun dealers breaking the law in the manner that NY state discovered. Period.

MZ, YOU ARE CORRECT, SIR!!!!! Margie, I don’t no who keeps telling you all these lies(actually I do know)but you need to quit listening to them. No one can just stroll into a gunshop or gunshow and by anything they wish, there are extensive checks. If those background checks fail you need to blame BATF,FBI, and the Records Division Dept of Justice.

Mike Zulu, I knew there was something I liked about you. To be the total package all you need is to be a .30 man. I am a gunshow rat from way back, and it always cracks me up to hear people going on and on about how anyone can buy anything they want with no background check. donnie will be hitting this thread with his moronic crap before long.

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sherard, exactly how do you propose to stop people from walking out the door and handing that purchase to a second party. I put the chances of getting a straight answer out of you at about 1000 to 1. Lets hear it.

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Those dealers did not break the law. 

The whole basis of their complaint was that one party did most of the talking.  That could easily be explained if the guy doing the talking was an experienced with guns and the other guy was a newbie. 

Ruining the gun sellers life because they can’t read the minds of their customers is a pretty shabby outlook on life don’t you think?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

The person who falsifies information in order to purchase a firearm has committed several felonies. Why, sherard, do you not want to prosecute them? That is the avenue that NYC should have pursued. Instead they, employees of NYC and their boss, Mayor Bloomberg, chose to break multiple laws. Why no outrage over their crimes?

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2Hotel9.  Maybe you can have some success with Margie. 
Margie.  This is not about “keeping guns out of the hands of felons.”
It is about some misplaced liberal idea that they can legislate morality and just pass a law to stop people from killing each other.  Gangs will get guns.  Honest people should have the means to defend themselves.  Look at what happened in NO when the police stopped answering 911 calls!

Communism is evil

Hmmm, I wonder what other subjects we can apply this argument to: 

It is about some misplaced conservative idea that they can legislate morality and just pass a law to stop people from _____________(fill in the blank).

It is about some misplaced conservative idea that they can legislate morality and just pass a law to stop people from _____________(fill in the blank).

misplaced conservative idea? Puzzle all that you can legislate is morality!
It is wrong to litter, if you do, this is the punishment. It is wrong to steal, if you do, this is the punishment. It is wrong to build a house with studs on 22” centers, if you do, this is the punishment.

Name one law that does not punish some form of behaviour or reward another. Morality, anyone???

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Yes, puzzledfuck, why no outrage over government officials conspiring to break multiple laws? Falsifying a single answer on any document concerning the purchase of a firearm is a felony which carries a $15,000 fine and 5 year imprisonment. Not $15,000 or 5 years, $15,000 AND 5 years. Why do you refuse to prosecute people that perpetrate these crimes?

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Proof,

Come on now!  Why stop there?

It is wrong to sexually harass or grope an unreceptive woman, it is wrong to lie to a federal grand jury, it is wrong to accept campaign contributions from overseas Chinese (especially those received in exchange for missile guidance and multiple warhead targeting information).  It is wrong to solicit campaign contributions from or in a federal office (including those in the White House, wrong to steal and destroy documents from the National Archives (especially those labeled “Top Secret/Codeword"), wrong to misstate the cost of a campaign fundraiser to make how much money was actually taken in, and wrong to ignore a subpoena for documents until the statute of limitations has run out.

It is also wrong to criticize the dinginess of someone else’s laundry, when you own has been recently dragged through the mud of central Arkansas and the sandy deserts of south Nevada.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Damn, Bravo1! You nearly sound like you want to hold Democrats to the same legal standard as us real humans are held. How bigoted,racist,and sexist of you.

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2H9,

Must be getting late.  You forgot “homophobic,” “neanderthal,” “war-mongering,” “misogynistic,” “belligerent,” “officious,” and perhaps worst of all, “Christian.”

Undoubtedly there are other leftist perjoratives in which we can take justifiable pride… particularly considering the pitifully ovine source.

And yes, speaking of animals, I do think that none of the pigs should be more equal than the rest of us.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Just trying to keep it brief!

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I can’t speak to the details of the ‘sting’ operations out of NYC, simply because I don’t know the details.  There were, however during the 1990’s, numerous cases of ATF overstepping, heck—real Jackbooted Thug—behaviour. 

Back then, the Clinton administration had declared all-out war on the Second Amendment.  One of the first places they hit were FFL’s, or those holding licenses to sell firearms. 

Just as your semi-automatic AR-15 can be linguistically transformed into a deadly Assault Rifle, your Remington Model 700 into a precision Sniper Rifle and your affordable pistol, a Saturday Night Special, they transformed those who informally sold guns as a hobby into cartrunk death merchants.

They jacked up the prices for licensing, made compliance onerous and hounded most of the informal FFLs out of business.  Of course, the crime guns continued on their normal—none-FFL way.  Indeed, it was only when a hue and cry was raised that the Clinton administration was forced to cancel the import license of some 20,000 FULLY AUTOMATIC Chinese AKs, allegedly bound for the LA gangs.

But, make no mistake, Waco was about guns.  Ruby Ridge was about guns.  Stewart was about guns.  Randy Weaver’s so-called gun violations fit the textbook example of entrapment, wherein the criminal design originated from goverment agents, as did the violations in the US v. Stewart case (.50 cal parts gun case). 

In these and other sting cases, there was a horrendous stench of governmental wrongdoing and coverups.  There more than just a few deaths of innocents at the hands of the JBTs.

In case you are thinking, ‘that was yesterday’ keep in mind that these Mini-Stalins have not gone away.

None of the guilty parties (Lon Horiuchi? Janet Reno? and yes, Hitlery Clinton for ordering Foster to order Reno to assault Mt. Carmel) was ever taken to the gallows or stood up downrange from a firing squad. 

They are still in goverment drawing salary.  For these reasons, my educated guess is that what the folks in NYC Sting & Co. did was likely closer to Police State in procedure than US Constitution.

And yes, Hotel-Niner, I prefer 7.62 to 5.56, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Good on ya’ bro.

...for great justice

My current MBR is a Garand chambered for 7.62x54, my hunting rifle is an SMLE .303. And it is getting hard to find ammo for it. Lots of FMJ out there, hunting rounds are getting few and far between. Going to have to break down and start reloading. This past deer season all I could find were 180gr Powerpoint Winchester, and that is ALOT of bullet to be shooting a deer with. I special ordered 100rds of 147gr BallisticTip from Sellier&Bellot, but that is a bit pricey. Freind suggested checking at Ammoman.com, but they aren’t carrying any .303 right now.

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