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Tuesday, May 09, 2006

Democrats Want To Force You To Have Insurance You Don’t Need

Hmm...

WASHINGTON - Senate Democrats threatened Tuesday to filibuster Republican-backed legislation they said would scale back health insurance for millions. Republicans said the measure would allow small businesses to offer coverage to more workers.

The legislation, sponsored by Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., would enable businesses to join across state lines to buy health insurance. The pooling would give them enough clout to negotiate better rates, Enzi said.

"This is something that the small businesses have been asking for for almost 15 years," said Enzi, R-Wyo.

Democrats said the resulting plans would not meet people's needs because the legislation would pre-empt state requirements for certain coverage, such as mammograms or diabetes supplies. Enzi's aides said he would support some mandated coverage if a majority of the states require it. . . .

The White House Office of Management and Budget released a statement saying that
President Bush supports the bill.

"By providing coverage for thousands of employees at a time, association members would be able to provide their employees better health care coverage at lower premiums," OMB said.

Sen. Jim Talent (news, bio, voting record), R-Mo., said insurance policies for large employers already are exempt from state coverage requirements. He said it's time to do the same for small group coverage.

"The small business people are paying more to get the same benefits because they have higher administrative costs and higher overhead costs," Talent said.

Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said he fears the insurance industry would offer plans that exclude childhood immunizations and other important services. They would also be allowed to increase premiums beyond what individuals states now allow.

"What we're doing here is shrinking the amount of benefits offered to people," Dodd said.

In recent decades, it has become common for states to require that insurance companies offer coverage for certain types of cancer screenings, such as mammograms, which are covered in 49 states; cervical cancer screenings, covered in 29 states; and colorectal examinations, covered in 22 states.

"If you find cancer early and detect it early, you're not only going to save costs, you're going to save a life," said Daniel Smith of the American Cancer Society. "One of the barriers to going to get screened is if your insurance company won't cover it."

Insurers say state mandates are driving up the cost of policies and the ranks of the uninsured. States have approved more than 1,800 coverage requirements, says the Council for Affordable Health Insurance.

"Although one mandate may only increase the cost of a policy by 1 percent, 40 such mandates will price many people out of the market," the council said in a recent report.


What is being talked about here is insurance mandates. I've posted about them before.

The mandates focused on in the article are, predictably, those that are most likely to evoke an emotional response. Like cancer screenings. Who doesn't think that a cancer screening should be part of comprehensive health insurance coverage?

But what they don't tell you is that most state insurance mandates are for some pretty non-sensical things that most citizens aren't really going to be all that interested in. Like coverage for pseudo-medicine specialists like accupuncturists and coverage for wigs.

Now, maybe you're a big believe in the powers of acupuncture and want that to be part of your insurance coverage. That's great. But why should it be mandated coverage so that people like me end up paying for it as well? All it does is make insurance coverage more expensive for everyone while adding benefits for a minor segment of the population.

For instance: I am not a woman. I don't have breasts and am not likely to get breast cancer. Why, then, should I have to pay for insurance for breast exams? I don't have a cervix either, yet I am also forced to pay for coverage for cervical exams.

It doesn't make sense.

This is yet another failing of this country's collectivist thinking on health care. By mandating one-size-fits-all health coverage we force people to may more for insurance in order to have coverage for things their neighbors want but they aren't likely to ever want or need. Just as when we force everyone to carry insurance coverage (as they are now doing in Mass.) we make them responsible for the consequences of the personal health decisions of their neighbors.

These are the reasons why health care should be the personal responsibility of the individual. We should all be responsible for purchasing the health coverage and care that we want and will actually use while simultaneously being responsible for the health choices that we make.

Sadly, though, Democrats don't want this. They don't want personal responsibility. They adhere to the collectivist mentality that tries to make us all fit into cookie-cutter molds. They want less personal responsibility because it makes them look like the "good guys." The "caring guys." That it is a terribly inefficient way to run a health care system, let alone a country, is neither here nor there.

Comments

Avatar for Bat One

It seems to me that the way to promote both a more knowledgeable inusrance-buying public and a more cost-conscious system of insurance, not to mention more personal responsibility, would be to offer a menu of coverage options from which a buyer could pick and choose the coverage he or she thinks is in their respective best interest.

One of the things I like most about health savings accounts is the fact that I can designate the coverage I want, and how much to set aside for non-covered, non-critical annual expenses.  A definite plus to owning your own companies.

Bat One on May 9, 2006 at 06:35 pm
Avatar for robert108

If I read this right, the Republicans want to empower small business, while the Dems want to block the bill because it breaks up the big govt monopoly in insurance coverage. Sounds about right.

robert108 on May 9, 2006 at 08:07 pm

But what happens when you contract something that isn’t covered by the insurance plan you purchased, and you can’t afford to pay for the care?  Who pays then? 

You never address that possibility. 

Marc on May 9, 2006 at 09:02 pm

I should have added.  How can you possibly know what kind of health care you are going to require? 

Oh I forgot, if you don’t take drugs, smoke, eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly, you won’t get sick, so you shouldn’t need health insurance. 

Marc on May 9, 2006 at 09:04 pm
Avatar for Seth Yantiss

Marc,

Well, you are then rushed to the most expensive and capable facility on the planet and provided every possible chance for survival.  It is, after all, the responsibility of the public to maintain every life for as long as possible regardless of the cost. 

Seth Yantiss on May 9, 2006 at 09:11 pm
Avatar for Seth Yantiss

You know...  I am really glad this came up…

I think I let my "Deadly Halitosis" policy lapse...   It’s fairly innexpensive, but I want to be sure that I’m covered for everything under the sun…

Oh, crap...  My sun cancer policy....   Gotta run and renew these...  later. 

Seth Yantiss on May 9, 2006 at 09:15 pm
Rob
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But what happens when you contract something that isn’t covered by the insurance plan you purchased, and you can’t afford to pay for the care?  Who pays then?

I don’t know, but it sounds like a personal problem to me because I don’t see why I should have to pay for your medical care.

You are such the proto-typical liberal, Marc.  The minute anyone starts talking about personal responsibility you go off on some teary-eyed tangent about people not being able to afford their own health care.  As though the sky-high prices of health care (putting it out of reach of most Americans) weren’t brought about by the very policies you try to advance.  Health care is expensive because nobody is responsible for paying for their own care.  The cost of health care began to skyrocket in the year years of the last century when the labor unions forced General Motors and other companies to begin paying for health care.

In short, everything started going down hill when Americans were made less responsible for their own health care.  With history as our guide, that is not a road we need to go down any further. 


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on May 9, 2006 at 09:46 pm
Avatar for robert108

Rob: Exactly.  The cure for the ills of socialism is not more socialism.

robert108 on May 9, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Avatar for The Whistler

I’ve always thought that these mandated benefits came as the result of lobbying on the part of special interests.  For example the acupuncturists don’t feel their busy enough so they lobby their state reps and voila, they are a mandated coverage.  Also I’ll bet that as soon as mandated coverage takes effect the prices these quacks can charge more for their services.

One of the most expensive parts of mandated benefits is physchological services.  Frankly I think they’re nuts.  (Psychologists and congressmen that is).  

Insurance in my mind is for something you really need.  I don’t think I should be forced to pay for someone because they didn’t get a GI Joe for their 10th birthday. 

The Whistler on May 10, 2006 at 04:37 am

You guys have it all wrong, and seem to misinterpret my beliefs, or I misinterpret my beliefs.  I believe health care is a personal responsibility, but I also believe everybody should have to pay for it. 

AHP’s, as evisioned by Enzi, would eliminate state mandates for health care.  Sure they can tailor plans to what you think you may need, and provide cheap alternatives to comprehensive plans, but there is no way that anyone can determine what kind of care they will need in the future.   

The problem is the liklihood of contracting something not covered by the plan is high, and taxpayers will end up paying, because that is the way our system works.  If you get sick in the US, you are entitled to care, whether you can pay for it or not.  I can’t help if you don’t like, but it’s not going to change, no matter how much you may hope.

That is why I am for mandated health insurance for all, best paid via a sales tax, VAT, or payroll tax.  I prefer the sales tax or VAT, as it takes the burden off of business.  It forces everone to contribute based on their ability to pay.  Is that socialistic? Yes, but I am also compassionate, and don’t want to leave the poor to die simply because they are poor.

But the best thing about a sales tax or VAT is, if you don’t buy anything, and reinvest your earnings into society, you won’t have to pay for the health care of the poor.

We all benefit from the health care infrastructure, much like we do from the infrastructures set up to protect us from fires, and I don’t see anybody objecting to paying taxes for fire protection.
 

Marc on May 10, 2006 at 05:10 am
Avatar for The Whistler

Marc, I at least appreciate your idea of not sticking business with the health insurance bill.

However I have my own insurance on myself and my family.  I pay for it.  Why should I pay for someone elses?

My problem with a payroll tax is  that people who work off the books or just don’t work will  not pay for their own insurance. 

Sales tax, VAT.  If you think people cheat on their income taxes wait until you start throwing everything on the sales side. 

 

 

 

The Whistler on May 10, 2006 at 06:16 am
Avatar for robert108

Sales taxes hurt business.  Econ 101.  People have only so much money to spend at any given time.  The part the govt confiscates doesn’t go to the business.  Simple arithmetic.  In a free society, no one should be forced to do anything by govt.  That is dictatorship.  Dictating that people must buy something is wrong.  If you are sick and can’t afford to hire a doctor, go to the ER.  If you take care of yourself, you will spend a lot less on healthcare in the course of your life.  This isn’t rocket science.

robert108 on May 10, 2006 at 08:27 am
Avatar for The Whistler

Sales taxes and their effect on businesses.  How do they affect the businesses that collect them?

1.  Suppose an item is priced $95 on the shelf but it will cost $5 in sales tax to purchase.  If a customer thinks an items is worth $100 to them after tax would they pay the same $100 if there was no tax.  They very well might, but the other retailers may be willing to sell it for $95.  Frankly I ‘d predict the retailer could get a bit more for that item.  So in effect the retailer is paying part of the tax. 

2.  Let’s just assume that the natural price is $96, the customer pays $4 of the tax and the store pays $1 of that tax.  In this event the customer still has $4 to spend either at the store or in another way.  (They may go out to eat rather than spend it at that store.)  However other people are also spending money in other retail establishment.  In that case the store could expect to receive more businesses.  In that case they would make 1 to 2 dollars more on the additional business.

So long story short the customer loses but the business probably pays about half of a sales tax.  

The Whistler on May 10, 2006 at 08:44 am
Avatar for robert108

The business owner also has to act as an unpaid tax collector.  That is an uncompensated cost to him.  If the govt takes money out of the system, there is less for everyone else.  Sales taxes are inflationary, in that they raise the price of goods without a corresponding increase in value.  A true cost/benefit analysis might reveal that sales taxes are a net loss for everyone.  They are certainly regressive.

robert108 on May 10, 2006 at 08:55 am
Avatar for robert108

Marc:  You wrote:  "I believe health care is a personal responsibility, but I also believe everybody should have to pay for it."

Well, which is it?  If it’s a personal responsibility, the person pays for it.  If everybody pays for it, it’s not a personal responsibility.  BTW, you have been clear about this from you first post on healthcare.  Most of us just don’t want to pay for someone else’s healthcare. 

robert108 on May 10, 2006 at 11:08 am

Health care is a personal responsibility.  The problem is not everyone pays for it.  Remember you don’t have to have insurance, but you are entitled to care if you need.  I just want everyone to pay a fair share.  That’s what I mean

And as far as a VAT, if you collect it at the time of manufacture of the products, i.e. GM, Ford pay the tax, retailers don’t have to collect, and it would be very difficult for anyone to cheat or avoid the tax.  It would also be alot easier to police, as there will be far fewer payers.  

Replacing income tax with a VAT would also be much more efficient, and would encourage savings, which this country seems to be lacking.  Don’t buy anything, don’t pay any tax.

Marc on May 10, 2006 at 01:04 pm
Avatar for The Whistler

Marc thinks it’s his personal responsibility to see that you pay for his insurance.

The Whistler on May 10, 2006 at 01:05 pm
Avatar for The Whistler

Maybe we shouldn’t entitle the irresponsible.

The Whistler on May 10, 2006 at 01:07 pm
Avatar for God

Why is it that “western med” needs insurance?
Why is it that a medicine, Allopathic, that kills millions of people every year with their drugs--properly used and prescribed--is covered with insurance, but medicines that have been shown to have a reasonable efficacy without death, maiming, etc. are “outside” the scope of insurance.

Why is it I’m taxed up the ass so that old people can have their pills.....
Who’s the dumb ass that thought of government funded insurance? 
Bla......bla.....bla.....

People would be much more inclined to help themselves and seek medicine that actually works instead of harms if they had to pay for it themselves!
Ban all insurance......be responsible for your self!

God on May 24, 2006 at 04:56 pm
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