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Friday, September 12, 2008

Democrats Considering Fuel Entitlement

It’s food stamps.  Except, you know, for gasoline.

Because it’s all bread and circuses folks.  It’s not about leadership.  About about which political party or politician can promise voters the most stuff paid for with other people’s money.

As the U.S. economy teeters on the brink of recession, Democratic leaders are revisiting an idea born of the Great Depression: gas stamps to help Americans cope with high fuel prices.

The proposal to subsidize fuel costs for lower-income families and individuals would almost certainly be popular with white, working-class voters and could boost Barack Obama’s appeal with that critical voting bloc in this year’s presidential election.

Democratic lawmakers and their leaders say they are serious about including it in a second economic stimulus package expected to move this month. Meanwhile, Republicans ridicule the idea as a return to welfare-state politics, which they say characterized the Democratic Party before Bill Clinton.

“It’s certainly under consideration,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) told The Hill on Thursday afternoon. “It would be like food stamps for those people who need help.”

Gas stamps would work like traditional food stamps, which some Americans have collected since the 1930s. They would be used, however, to pay for regular unleaded instead of meat and potatoes.

Under one version of the proposal, a person earning up to $31,200 or a family of four earning up to $63,600 could receive government payments totaling $500 for gas.

This is a fairly ironic policy for Demcorats, who are supposedly interested in reducing carbon emissions, to propose.  Giving Americans entitlement money that they can only used to purchase gasoline will do nothing except encourage more driving.  Which, in turn, will only exacerbate high gas prices by increasing demand for gasoline.  Something that would, naturally, require more “gas stamps.” One thing that has actually caused people to drive less, and consume less gasoline, has been high gas prices (the bureaucrats whining about lost gas tax revenue prove it).

That’s the rationing effect of the market.  If supplies go down, or if demand goes up or even if both happens higher prices prevent people from using more gasoline than they need.  If the price of gas goes high people will conserve fuel.  But a gas entitlement would change all of that.

Which is pretty much how all entitlements work.  If you give out tuition entitlements for higher education the price of tuition goes up, which then necessitates more tuition entitlements.  If you give out heating entitlements people run up higher heat bills, which in turn drives up heating bills and ultimately increases demand for more entitlements.

It’s all a vicious cycle, and exactly why we should expect that people pay for their own gas.  And education.  And heating bills.  Etc.

Plus, how much money is this going to cost us?  Don’t just think of the cost of the “gas stamps” themselves (though with nearly 251 million car-owners in America it’d be a hefty price tag), but of the cost of the bureaucracy it would take to distribute this entitlement.  And administer this entitlement.  And prevent fraudulent abuse of this entitlement.  The cost would be enormous, and once people started getting “free gasoline” they’d never, ever want it to go away and no politician would ever have the intestinal fortitude to take it away from them.

Comments

Just another attempt to bring back the failed “(not so) Great Society!”
They want to control the populace by controlling their access to energy and, as a result, their movement!20tih03.gif

Kevin on September 12, 2008 at 08:08 pm

So why then are we paying for mass transit at all?


[W]hat you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 12, 2008 at 08:27 pm

One can already hear the dishonest schmucks braying that “Republicans don’t want people to get to work, they want to take away your gas stamps.”

Everybody who disagrees with gas stamps will be accused of racism and hating the poor.

likwidshoe on September 12, 2008 at 08:35 pm

Let them carpool.


[W]hat you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 12, 2008 at 08:36 pm
Rob
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Let them buy bicycles.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on September 12, 2008 at 09:00 pm

This is a stupid idea…


Check out:
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goon on September 12, 2008 at 09:22 pm

Thanks for that insightful contribution Goon!  You inspire me.


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Hannitized on September 12, 2008 at 09:37 pm

Hannitized you’re an f’n moron.


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goon on September 12, 2008 at 10:03 pm

Well… it is.


"Experience… that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” -CS Lewis

Eddie_the_Hated on September 12, 2008 at 10:09 pm

You’re right it is a very stupid idea. Blatant socialism.
Right up BHO and the left’s alley. How are we going to pay for this?


Check out:
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goon on September 12, 2008 at 10:22 pm

The “Those well-off bastards” Obama Presidential Fund will do quite nicely I figure.


"Experience… that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” -CS Lewis

Eddie_the_Hated on September 12, 2008 at 10:23 pm

Socialism always seeks to control supply.


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on September 12, 2008 at 11:30 pm

Socialism always seeks to control supply.

Whilst Capitalism always seeks to concentrate control of supply into as few hands as possible.


Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

ManofFireandLight on September 13, 2008 at 12:55 am

As you suggest, Rob, the pernicious thing about “gas stamps” is what’s wrong with the Low-Income Heating and Energy Assistance Program, too—it disrupts market signals that change people’s behavior.

1. Limit domestic energy supply.
2. Prices go up.
3. Subsidize purchasers of energy.
4. Prices stay up.
5. More howling.
6. More subsidies.
7. Blame Republicans...or…
8. Low-cost oil from Citgo!

Pomerdorgrad on September 13, 2008 at 01:49 am

Socialism always seeks to control supply.

Really?

Because it’s better to have some gasoline available at a high price than no gasoline available at any price.

A simple economic truth that is completely beyond the understanding of the rabble-rousing lefties.

robert108 on September 12, 2008 at 10:43 am

So 108, you’re a Socialist?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on September 13, 2008 at 03:38 am
Avatar for Ken Roberts

I equate the democrat movement to a bowel movement it smells the same any way . we would not need any tax money to pay for gas if the democrats would get out of the way and let the companies drill and in Anwr also , Palin will work on McCain on that one I am sure . But it is the failed non policies that have gotten us into this mess and those will have to be removed before we see any improvement , Bush lifted his ban on drilling and the price came down to 359.9 in Ohio so if the congress would lift their ban it would come down even more. One is trying to save the planet , such a noble cause but not doable at all. as Palin told the democrat interviewer we may have a little something to do with it , sure we do but it is not stoppable and it is not causing much change at all. we could spend 40 trillion dollars and still be at sq, one . as a matter of fact we could spend every dime we have and nothing will change .

Ken Roberts on September 13, 2008 at 04:45 am

How will this increase the supply of refined product?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 13, 2008 at 04:56 am

It won’t, but then neither will drilling in ANWR.


Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

ManofFireandLight on September 13, 2008 at 05:23 am
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I equate the democrat movement to a bowel movement it smells the same any way

Perhaps that’s why they chose
Barry “Um” Enema as their standard bearer?

Want to diagnose what’s wrong with the Democratic party? Inject a Barry “Um” Enema into it! Heh.

(Now, every time Barry pauses with his stuttering little “uh"s and “um"s, you can think of what he’s doing to the party!)


Excuse me, you were saying?

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Proof on September 13, 2008 at 05:47 am

ManofFireandLight said, It won’t, but then neither will drilling in ANWR.

You’re right - drilling in ANWR won’t give us refined product. The stuff that comes out the ground is unrefined.

Like, no shit Sherlock.

likwidshoe on September 13, 2008 at 05:57 am

"It won’t, but then neither will drilling in ANWR.”

Drilling in ANWR will increase overall petroleum supplies, thus increasing overall stocks of refined product, thus decreasing overall fuel prices.

Sorry I had to beatch slap you so early in the morning.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 13, 2008 at 06:03 am

And lets us not forget the 60 to 80 thousand jobs that will be created in expanding drilling, pumping, transporting, and refining all that petroleum. And another 20 to 30 thousand jobs in manufacturing, services, and environmental remediation from opening ANWR. Not to mention the ancillary increases in all the same from increasing offshore drilling,pumping, and refining in the lower 48. And don’t forget all the same in Brazil. And Siberia.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 13, 2008 at 06:08 am

In fact, environazis should be pushing FOR opening ANWR and expanding offshore drilling. That would give thousands of them jobs in the environmental remediation and monitoring industries. Thousands of high paying and morally fulfilling jobs that would actually make a difference to the world in the long run. Instead of vandalizing people’s property and living off their parents and the welfare system.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 13, 2008 at 06:14 am
Avatar for patriot

2Hotel9 is right; drilling would provide a more permanent positive impact than creating another entitlement.

This is just wrong; if he rolls it out McCain needs to hit back fast.

patriot on September 13, 2008 at 06:28 am
Rob
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Whilst Capitalism always seeks to concentrate control of supply into as few hands as possible.

Any given capitalist, or group of capitalists working toward a common goal, is of course going to want to give themselves whatever edge they want.  But the thing about that is that capitalists have to compete with one another for that edge.

With socialism, the government gets the edge and all other competition is outlawed with the threat of imprisonment.

Neither situation is perfect, but I certainly know which one I prefer.  Now if we could get the liberals (and to a lesser extent the Republicans) to quit favoring policies that grow big business (like the minimum wage and excessive corporate taxation/regulation) our economy wouldn’t consist of such huge corporate entities.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on September 13, 2008 at 07:02 am

Under free enterprise no transaction occurs unless both parties mutually agree that they are better off making the deal.

Combine that with competition and you wind up with a nearly perfect system.


[W]hat you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 13, 2008 at 07:15 am

Whilst Capitalism always seeks to concentrate control of supply into as few hands as possible.

Wrong!  Free people making free choices allows demand to create the maximum amount of supply, at a reasonable price.
Only govt interference in the market changes that, by favoring one player over another through taxation and regulation.


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on September 13, 2008 at 07:51 am

So 108, you’re a Socialist?

No, moron!  I favor allowing market forces to determine the price, not some govt agency.  Could you say anything more stupid than that?  Have you completely lost the ability to think, due to your enslavement by Marxist ideology?


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on September 13, 2008 at 07:53 am

The invisible hand is going to slap him.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” ~Theodore Roosevelt

nunez on September 13, 2008 at 08:03 am

Right after it smacks you. Or perhaps it will do a Three Stooges multi-slap, followed by an eye gouge.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 13, 2008 at 08:06 am

The invisible hand is going to slap him.

Again you show your ignorance, nutbag.  The Invisible Hand provides the greatest good for the greatest number through the unimpeded working of market forces.  It doesn’t “slap” anyone.


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on September 13, 2008 at 08:08 am
Avatar for rob

Yet another thing people have a ‘right’ to. BS. If we announced we were going to start drilling, gas would be a 2.50 within 2 weeks. Giving people money so that they can buy gas - talk about naked pandering.

http://www.rightofcenterramblings.blogspot.com

rob on September 13, 2008 at 08:11 am
Avatar for John

Terrible idea. It will never work. How about some real help? For example, I found this site which gave some ways and programs that help save bills, both from the gov’t and utility companies themselves.
http://www.needhelppayingbills.com
Anyone have any other good sites or tips? Thanks

John on September 13, 2008 at 01:31 pm

Need help buying gas? Produce more gas, asshole.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 13, 2008 at 02:14 pm

Yet another thing people have a ‘right’ to. BS. If we announced we were going to start drilling, gas would be a 2.50 within 2 weeks. Giving people money so that they can buy gas - talk about naked pandering.

That is right, all these green/left ideas are counter productive


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on September 14, 2008 at 01:29 pm

Hmmm, if this socialist agenda goes far enough, I may just quit my job, file for bankruptcy, keep my house and get my free gas, free food, free health insurance, etc.

I’d have about everything I have now plus 40-50 hours of extra time each week to do as I please.

subbob on September 14, 2008 at 07:36 pm
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