Democrats Already Lowering Expectations On Health Care Reform

The Whistler • April 25, 2008

Congressional Democrats are backing away from healthcare reform promises made by their two presidential candidates, saying that even if their party controls the White House and Congress, sweeping change will be difficult.
It is still seven months before Election Day, but already senior Democrats are maneuvering to lower public expectations on the key policy issue.

Stephen Bainbridge responds:

One of the real problems with the debate over health care reform is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The media and the politicians focus on people who have problems with health care issues, such as the uninsured, the underinsured, and those whose insurers deny coverage for significant health care problems. The trouble of course is that lots of people are satisfied with their healthcare.

The fact that so many people are, in fact, quite satisfied with their health care is why Democrats have to work so hard to convince us all that our health care system is awful.

Tags: Cultural Marxism, Domestic Issues, Nanny State, Politics

http://Array robert108

Tim: I’ll make it simple for you: Whenever you separate the payer from the consumer of a service, the normal market feedback mechanisms are unable to function. You pay the insurance company, and the insurance company pays the doctor or hospital or HMO or whatever. Get it? Besides that, due to the extensive socialization of healthcare, there is very little actual competition, which is to the detriment of the consumer. As it generally does, govt interference in the market eliminates real choice.
docdave

The point I was trying to get across is that when you get “really” sick, it’s not as easy to get into see that specialist or have the insurance company approve the necessary care as many people think.

The point I was making in my last comment (which you apparently didn’t read) was that from my personal experience your assertion is b.s.
docdave

It’s not until you get sick, and really need the benefit of health care to the people realize just how bad the health care system is.

That certainly doesn’t correlate with my experience, and I have ‘really’ been sick, enough for several hospital stays and open heart surgery. Personally I found the health care to be superb – competant staffs and doctors. It is I think a fact that our surgeons are amoung the worlds best.
HG

It’s not until you get sick, and really need the benefit of health care to the people realize just how bad the health care system is

You gotta be kiddin’ Tim. How bad? Compared to what? It is the regulation and costs that could be lower, the care is excellent — I speak from my own recent experience.
robert108

The US does not have an abundance of intelligent people.

You speak only for yourself, Tim.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

To expand on Roberts point community or other rating schemes distort the market further.

Supposing you’re paying your premiums and get sick. There’s even more reason to use just as much of the services that the insurance company pays for.

On the other hand, take auto insurance. Most drivers are careful with what they do claim as they don’t want their insurance bill to go up and hopefully are careful to keep their repair bills low.
Tim

Rationalize it how ever you like Robert, I know your real feelings.

That’s what separates liberals from conservatives.

And with the exception of few parts of the conservative movement, and contrary to that espoused by many within that movement, there is no such thing as a compassionate conservative.
http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

there is no such thing as a compassionate conservative.

Spoken like a true brain dead liberal!
Tim

The reason so many are satisfied with the health care system, is they’re not sick yet, and other than going for their annual physical, or a broken arm etc. they don’t have any real encounters with just how bad the system really is.

It’s not until you get sick, and really need the benefit of health care to the people realize just how bad the health care system is.

The US does not have an abundance of intelligent people.

You only have to…….

Oops, better stop there!
http://arcturusmfg.com/ Marc – Arcturus

That was quick Robert!

I guess I don’t understand.

Are you saying, if you have health insurance, and get sick, you shouldn’t be entitled to use that coverage to the fullest extent?

Or is that only for those who had someone else pay for their health insurance, like the company you work for?

And are you also inferring, if you led an unhealthy lifestyle, you shouldn’t be allowed treatment, and health insurance companies should be allowed to deny payment for care and immediately cancel your policy?

I’m sure the health insurance companies would like that.
robert108

It’s just that too many don’t receive the proper care, because of the focus on profits (for the health insurance industry) above all.

Here’s where you reveal your Marxist ignorance. Profits make a company more responsive to the customers, not less. It’s the “closed shop”, caused by govt interference in the market, not profits.
Think about it: more business, more profit; less business, less profit. Duh.
Bat One

Remember insurance companies aren’t in the business of paying out claims. They’re in the business of making money (after all, isn’t that why businesses are in business?)

Tim,

True enough. This is also true of hospitals, doctors, medical equipment manufacturers, drug companies, the real estate companies that lease out the doctors’ offices, attorneys-at-law, automobile manufacturers, gas station/convenience store owners, money managers, newspaper publishers, farmers, and just about everyone else who participates in the US economy. So???

The problem isn’t the profit motive of those in the health care system. Far from it. The problem is that far too many politicians, especially those on the Left, pander to those of us who are too lazy, too ill-informed, and too irresponsible to attend to their own health care and that of their families. Instead, those pandering politicos encourage the notion that medical care of any sort should be and entitlement, provided on demand by the rest of us.
Tim

The point I was trying to get across is that when you get “really” sick, it’s not as easy to get into see that specialist or have the insurance company approve the necessary care as many people think.

Remember insurance companies aren’t in the business of paying out claims. They’re in the business of making money (after all, isn’t that why businesses are in business?)

Contrary to popular belief, decisions aren’t between you and your doctor, unless of course you can afford all the out of pocket expenses, and pay for everything without the aid of insurance, it’s between you, your doctor, and your health insurance company.

And again remember, insurance companies aren’t in the business of paying out claims, they are in the business of making money, and they will take every opportunity to deny and delay paying claims, and even cancel policies should they see a benefit to doing that.

Certainly some people will get great care, and routine things like open heart surgeries, fixing broken extremities, emergency type operations are performed with little, if any, problems.

It’s just that too many don’t receive the proper care, because of the focus on profits (for the health insurance industry) above all.

Just my opinion!
robert108

Most drivers are careful with what they do claim as they don’t want their insurance bill to go up and
hopefully are careful to keep their repair bills low.

They’re also careful how they drive; they tend to avoid hitting things or other cars or people. They are directly accountable for their actions.
Bat One

The US does not have an abundance of intelligent people.

Tim,

You are entitled to your opinion, however wrong-headed. And I would challenge you to show that any other country’s general population is demonstrably more intelligent.

Still, At least the majority of the American people have enough sense to stay reasonably healthy, along with enough sense not to get stuck paying the bill for those whose health care practices are less sensible.
robert108

But that’s not an issue with health insurance?

Yes; this has already been ‘splained to you several times, Tim, but you just don’t get it. When you have paid health insurance premiums for most of your life while using very little healthcare, and then your unhealthy lifestyle finally catches up to you, you feel entitled to take as much healthcare as you want, so once again, the separation of the action from the consequences(the core of leftiethink) is the root of the problem.
You just don’t get it; actions have consequences, and no amount of leftie lying changes that.
laydownSally

Tim,

While I agree our health care system is in need of reform, it is not due to the quality of our doctors and hospitals.

Currently doctors prescribe often unnecessary diagnostic evaluations for fear that some insignificant malady will go unnoticed and they will face a malpractice suit. We have the democrats to thank for that.

Surely a reform by those same tort-loving politicians is a move in the wrong direction.
robert108

Rationalize it how ever you like Robert, I know your real feelings.

Not only do you know nothing, you apparently are unable to comprehend anything you read. You reveal yourself as someone so obsessed with his(?) own “feelings” that he(?) is unable to think outside his tiny box of leftie talking points.
BTW, conservatism is compassionate by nature; no modifier is necessary. Lefties, on the other hand, are simply intolerant totalitarians who cannot cope with a diversity of opinion.
Tim

Oh yeah Robert, and what about people who led a healthy lifestyle, and still get sick (I have actually heard of that happening, believe it or not).

Are they permitted to use the benefit of their health insurance to the fullest? Or again is that only if they paid for that insurance themselves?
http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

Actually Robert, I do understand completely how you feel.

You don’t give a damn about anyone, but yourself.

You’re unwilling to pay taxes for the public good, unless it provides a direct benefit to you.

And since you’re not sick and in need of health care, you don’t care that someone else can’t get care, or can’t afford the care, is denied care etc.

It’s simply not your problem, if someone is unlucky enough to get sick (whether it’s because of an unhealthy lifestyle or not), and can no longer afford health insurance, or to pay for the care they need.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and if they are in that position, it’s their fault, and it’s damn sure not your concern.

Have I got right?

First off a lot of people are insured through who they work for so we don’t see a big need to have a socialized medicine for everyone, there is also medicare for the poor already. I don’t see a need to through a country in debt to win a few votes.
Tim

Actually Robert, I do understand completely how you feel.

You don’t give a damn about anyone, but yourself.

You’re unwilling to pay taxes for the public good, unless it provides a direct benefit to you.

And since you’re not sick and in need of health care, you don’t care that someone else can’t get care, or can’t afford the care, is denied care etc.

It’s simply not your problem, if someone is unlucky enough to get sick (whether it’s because of an unhealthy lifestyle or not), and can no longer afford health insurance, or to pay for the care they need.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and if they are in that position, it’s their fault, and it’s damn sure not your concern.

Have I got right?
robert108

Have I got right?

Not even one thing. I have ‘splained it as simply as I can, and you aren’t even close to understanding. Your leftie talking points have dumbed you down so far, you can’t even comprehend simple English. Oh, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the way I “feel”. It’s about thinking clearly about what’s wrong with our healthcare system today: govt interference. I’m for a free market in healthcare, without govt rules, insurance companies and regulations that prevent competition from delivering affordable healthcare to everyone who chooses to pay for it. Got it?
Your victimology crap is what is wrong with this country.
robert108

Are they permitted to use the benefit of their health insurance to the fullest? Or again is that only if they paid for that insurance themselves?

Your questions make no sense. You are the one complaining about people who are insured and can’t get the care they need; perhaps you might plead your case, instead of whining.
US healthcare saved my life, so you won’t have any success selling your bullshit to me.
robert108

The two Big Lies about so-called “universal healthcare” are that it’s “universal”, and that it’s “free”. The reality is that any big govt plan gives the power of the purse to govt, rather than the individual consumer, and so the system is shaped by what the govt thinks you should have, rather than what you might choose(and pay for). It’s a slippery slope to bankruptcy hell, accompanied by shortages and rising costs.
Tim

They’re also careful how they drive; they tend to avoid hitting things or other cars or people. They are directly accountable for their actions.

But that’s not an issue with health insurance?

I guess that’s because someone health is paying for health insurance, so there is no incentive to live a healthy life style. Except maybe for the possibility you might die prematurely.

Of course that really isn’t a problem either, since medical science fixes everything, much like a car mechanic. Right?

In any event, as the article pointed, so many people are satisfied with the health care system [at least the healthy ones], focusing on those uninsured, underinsured and those who have policies canceled or coveraged denied is irresponsible.

And when did it become my responsibility to take care of them?

I live a healthy life style, so I’m very likely not to get sick or need access to health care, and should I need it, I have health insurance, and what insurance doesn’t cover I can pay for, because I planned well.

If others are unlucky or didn’t plan well, NOT MY PROBLEM!

The sick, the poor and the elderly are just a burden on society anyways. We’d be better off without them.

I’m starting to get the picture now.

Thanks ya’ll!
http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

Good questions Rob. I suppose if you hear something is bad long enough people will believe it.
robert108

I guess I don’t understand.

I guess you don’t, even though I’ve already ‘splained it at least twice. I’m addressing the separation of the payer from the consumer in healthcare, which screws up the whole process, and causes both shortages and high prices.
All the rest is the product of your imagination.

I hope I dumbed it down enough for you.

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Democrats Already Lowering Expectations On Health Care Reform

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