Democrats Propose Legislation Withholding Federal Funds From States With “Stand Your Ground” Laws

trayvon-zimmerman-ap-lg

Democrats blame the Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida on that state’s so-called “stand your ground” self defense policy, and have all but indicted the American Legislative Exchange Council alongside George Zimmerman as co-conspirators for advocating for the policy in dozens of states around the country.

There is some question about whether or not the “stand your ground” policy is even applicable in the Martin/Zimmerman case. According to Zimmerman, he was on his back and being attacked when he shot Martin. If that’s true, then he couldn’t have retreated, which means that laws applying to the duty to retreat wouldn’t apply.

But no matter. Democrats want to cut off federal funding for states with “stand your ground” policies and have proposed legislation in the House to do it.

House Democrats said Tuesday they will offer an amendment to push to overturn stand-your-ground self-defense laws in states like Florida.

The amendment, which would withhold some grants from states that have such laws, will come as part of the House’s debate on the Commerce Department spending bill.

“‘Shoot-first’ laws have already cost too many lives. In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted. Federal money shouldn’t be spent supporting states with laws that endanger their own people,” said Reps. Raul Grijalva of Arizona and Keith Ellison of Minnesota, the two Democrats who are offering the legislation. “This is no different than withholding transportation funds from states that don’t enforce seat-belt laws.”

The Democrats are right in that the federal government has certainly used federal funding to undermine state sovereignty in the past. That being said, if this were to be successful, it could open a new front in the gun control laws.

American attitudes about guns have changed over the last few decades, with citizens become more approving of individual gun ownership. The Supreme Court, too, has finally upheld the individual right to gun ownership, but states are extremely vulnerable when it comes to federal funding.

The federal government could lure states into more restrictive self-defense and gun policy by manipulating federal funding. Which is yet another argument for smaller federal government. The more dependent the states are on the federal government, the less power the state’s have to govern locally.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • headward

    Democrats should be careful with this poison pill.  Republicans can do the same with abortions.

    • $8194357

      ouch…

      • headward

        Republicans should respond that dems want grandma to be shot and robbed.

    • ellinas1

      They should do it.
      Show for once that they are serious on this issue.

  • two_amber_lamps

    Reps. Raul Grijalva of Arizona and Keith Ellison….  members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

    aka COMMUNISTS

    Long live the scourge of statism… this is the pact you make when you take federal funding, the “benevolent dictator” strikes again.

    Leftist scum.

    • You

      Isn’t Ellison the Muslim who demanded being sworn in using the Koran?

      • $8194357

        yup

        Used the koran Jefferson owned to try and figure out why a
        “religion” would declare war on America with pirates on the high seas…

        (infidels/dhimmis owe them, “allahs chosen” tribute and life itself)…

        Part of that long rich muslim heritiage barry babbles about islam….

        • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

          Gun Nut, you do know that Rep. Ellison wasn’t sworn in using a Koran, doncha?

          He did however pose for pictures with Jefferson’s Koran.

          Nutters.
          They crack me up!

          • Guest

             “Gun nut”

            Is this the new “catch phrase” of the left?

            “He did however pose for pictures with Jefferson’s Koran”

            He is however a Muslim, with his own Quaran at home, in his office and probably in his jacket pocket…

          • $8194357

            7.62 scares divorced from reality boob…
            The second amendment limits their time table for fascist agendas..

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Silly Gun Nut, I don’t want to take your guns away.

            Do you and Jerry Gerry Jeri or Gheri hate America’s Constitution so much because it’s sixth amendment limits your time table for right wing fascist agendas?

          • $8194357

            You leftist lepards can’t change your spots or your lieing spin…

            That comes from your daddys side of the family tree boob…

            Lucifer..alinskys first born radicle and as the Good Book states:

            THE FATHER OF ALL LIES…

            Your matriarchail authority momma Marx didn’t bring much to your gene pool either, huh….

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Gun Nut, why do you drool at the end of all your sentences?

          • $8194357

            So idiot apoligist like you can wonder about it for a spell……

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            A lot of us wonder about you, Gun Nut.

          • $8194357

            Alot of idiot apoligists…Da

          • $8194357

            Ya put the lie in front of the coco nut
            show em truth and shake em up…

            Since 800 AD….
            Islamists invade a country…
            Build a mosque….
            Conviscate weapons….

            Ideogical root systems that the founders “prevented” by rule of constitutional Law ya all trying so hard to kill..
            Idiot useful apoligist…

    • $8194357

      Since 800 AD….
      Islamists invade a country…
      Build a mosque….
      Conviscate weapons….
      And instill the tax the dhimmi’s form of tribute….
      Where ya think Hitler learned gun control unarmed citizenry?

  • Jay

    Uncle Sam already does this. MADD lobbies every few years to have Washington blackmail the states jnto lowering the legal limit whether they want to or not.

    • headward

      Don’t forget the legal age to drink as well.  MADD can just go away.

  • Bat One

    The sponsors of this amendment, which is clearly going nowhere, are Minnesota’s Rep Keith Ellison, a Farakhan following Muslim and former Black panther, and Arizona’s Rep. Raul Grijalva, a lifelong “public servant”, current co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, and former “community organizer.” 

    The Far left’s pandering to the minority victims community continues despite the Supreme Court’s landmark rulings in Heller, and McDonald and the US Constitution’s Second Amendment.

    • Spartacus

       Agreed, it will go nowhere. Democrats don’t have the votes in the house right now and they won’t after Nov. 6th. Typical empty grandstanding on their part

      • Bat One

        The point, I think, is to be able to go to the minority victims communities and say, “See what those evil Republicans refused to pass.  Vote for Obama… oh, and here’s your walkin’ around money.”

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          “Walkin around money”, eh, kid?  Well, it’s not like your own comments, positions and general state of mind doesn’t speak for itself.

          • Bat One

            The phrase “walkin’ around money” or “street money” dates back to the late 1800s and refers to cash handed out by ward bosses, Democrats mostly, in urban areas to their candidate’s supporters to defray the trouble and expense of going to the polls and voting.

            Both the phrase and the practice are still common in urban areas from Philadelphia to Chicago and from Baltimore and DC to Atlanta, Birmingham, and New Orleans.  And as you have intimated, disparagingly of course, the phrase is part of the black urban lexicon.  Your lack of familiarity doesn’t oblige me to apologize for reality.

  • Econwarrior

    The left wing hates the Tenth Amendment.

    • Bat One

      Only after they’re done despising the Second!

      • two_amber_lamps

         And cherry-picking the First…

        • Bat One

          +1

        • Bat One

          Liberals don’t actually believe in the concept of unalienable rights.  They use the term only because it is less offensive than privilege controlled by the state, which is the liberal’s true preference.

  • Geoff

    If the fed withhold dollars to the state, then can the citizens of that state refuse to pay federal income tax? If that’s the case, let em do it

    • Spartacus

       I think payroll withholdings  go directly to the fed, but you’re on track to a good idea. Since the fed likes to threaten to with hold highway funding from states in order to get their way, the states affected should refuse to spend on maintaining the interstate highway systems in return for this gesture.

      • Geoff

        Bingo. Why is it they can only hold us hostage. Sure would be nice to give em a taste of their own medicine.

        • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

          Whatadya new to the neighborhood, Geoffrey?

          Gov. Christie blasts Eric Cantor on threat to block Hurricane Irene disaster relief funds
          In the wake of Hurricane Irene, Cantor said House republicans would block funding for disaster relief unless President Obama agreed to more budget cuts to offset any emergency funding.

          Cantor’s
          threat caught the wrath of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, whose
          state had been hard hit by the flood waters that followed the storm.

          http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10220475-gov-christie-blasts-eric-cantor-on-threat-to-block-hurricane-irene-disaster-relief-funds

          Republicans threaten to block support on appropriations bills

          http://www.govexec.com/oversight/2010/09/republicans-threaten-to-block-support-on-appropriations-bills/32358/

          Republicans Threaten Senate Blockade if Reid Doesn’t Deal With Debt, Spending

          http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/10/republicans-threaten-senate-blockade-reid-doesnt-deal-debt-spending/

          Republican Leader Threatens to Block Seating of Franken

          http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/republican-leader-threatens-to-block-seating-of-franken/

          • Bat One

            Eric Cantor doing his job and Chris Christie doing his job.  So?

          • Geoff

            You made it a dem/ repub thing. There is a difference though. Cantor is trying to curtail government spending and the dems are trying to steal more from taxpayers all while taking money from me and distributing it to union thugs. Wish they would step on my lawn

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Oh Geoffrey, are you really that _____?

            Why is it they can only hold us hostage. Sure would be nice to give em a taste of their own medicine.

            You made it a dem/ repub thing.

          • Geoff

            No. Did not, when I said them I meant government. And only my mother calls me Geoffrey. Since u appear to be at the intelligence level of my nine yr old I’ll respond to your post as such. “Whateeeevrrrrr”

          • two_amber_lamps

             Just call him a flat-headed communist.  He identifies with that.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Find me the part in the Constitution where this organization known as “FEMA” is mandated/authorized…. 

            Individual states were perfectly capable of fending for themselves. FEMA is just another product of statism and the encroachment of the all powerful federal government.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Find me the FBI or Air Force.

            Now what, Gun Nut?

          • You

             “Now what, Gun Nut?”

            Two Amber a gun nut?? I think you have her confused with your butt buddy the short little hanni.

          • two_amber_lamps

             Her?  T ‘wat you say?  lol…  don’t be a punk.

          • You

             Sorry, I didn’t know.

          • two_amber_lamps

             No worries… 

          • $8194357

            Gun nut is its “pet” name for me..

          • two_amber_lamps

            I don’t have to justify shit to you.

            They should have written it into the Constitution as an Amendment.

            Now go lie down.

          • $8194357

            Some one needs to “EXPLORE” incorperated government from “Common law Constitutional government”..
            Common law constitutionalism gives “individuals and states the power” and rule of law..
            The INC. government runs on corperate “OWNERSHIP”  Law….
            Time to wake up and see what DC”S been doing since 1890, yet?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            10x

      • $8194357

        Payable to “any federal reserve bank” tribute to the elitists…

        IRS was a Federal Researve System creation to enforce compliance with its new central planning fiat currency debt ponzi agendas..

        Some one needs to “EXPLORE” incorperated government from “Common law Constitutional government”..Common law constitutionalism gives “individuals and states the power” and rule of law..The INC. government runs on corperate “OWNERSHIP” Law….Time to wake up and see what DC”S been doing since 1890, yet?

        • $8194357

          International progressive elitist global bankers been “redistributing the wealth” a very long time, huh?

  • HG

    Federal funding to states is a questionable practice to begin with.  Federal influence on local and state government via funding is risky and lends itself to dependence on federal funds in order to balance budgets.  This is huge problem that extends to the local level when federal grants are considered. 

    • $8194357

      Sticks and carrots with the “tribute money” we pay to them doled back for obidiance…

      It is what it is….

  • Bobby

    Gun issue can easily be resolved. All new guns must have a balistics test. The scoring pattern on the amunation will be catalogued with the firearm’s serial number. Once purchased, as is the case now, the firearm will be registered to the individual. In order to make an aftermarket sale, a use gun will have to be similarly categorized. This way we can trace guns used in crime, even without the.gun! Over time, uncatalogued guns will be catalougued either through resale or voluntary compliance. This is helpful even with uncatalogued guns, because it allows the police the narrow the field through exclusion.

    • Camsaure

      Wouldn’t it be easier for you and your commie pals to just confiscate guns? After all isn’t that your goal?

      • Bobby

        Hey, pal!

      • $8194357

        That has been all fascist intent since 800 AD
        jihadist policy showed em the way…

  • Wesbutte

    Republicans should counter the democrats with anti-bullying from congress laws.

  • Davoarid

    Do you want MORE fistfights to end with dead gunshot victims, or LESS?

    • two_amber_lamps

      When punks realize the “sheep” are packing, there shall be fewer altercations when they realize the citizenry can (AND SHALL) defend themselves. 

      But you’d rather they all be helpless pacifists like yourself… like cattle to the slaughterhouse.

      Lenin/Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/Idi Amin would love you!

      • Davoarid

        I’ve been in lots of fistfights. I’ve never felt my life was threatened. The worst result of a fistfight is a broken nose.

        States with “Stand Your Ground” laws make sure that a lot more fistfights end with dead people. Drunk Guy A hits on Drunk Guy B’s girl at a bar. Drunk Guy B punches Drunk Guy A in the face. Drunk Guy A shoots Drunk Guy B two times in the chest.

        We should be doing everything we can to DISCOURAGE this result.

        • Bat One

          Your experience in fights, whatever it is, is irrelevant.

          Leaving aside the fact that this amendment is going nowhere, if you are opposed to so-called “stand your ground” laws, which are state statutes, then the correct approach is to work for repeal at the state level, not use the power of the federal government to right what you see as a wrong.  The concept is called federalism.  Perhaps you’ve heard of it?  It’s detailed in the Constitution.

    • $8194357

      In DC?
      With politicians?
      Dumb question….

    • Bat One

      Please explain why any rational individual would be sympathetic toward a robber, car-jacker, rapist, home-invader, or deranged killer who suddenly finds himself flat on his back with two holes in his chest.

      “An armed society is a polite society.”  Robert Heinlein

      • two_amber_lamps

         Davo-riddance would beg to say the #%#t-bag is a product of his environment. 

        Leftists deny the existence of personal responsibility.  Humans are programmed, nothing more… nothing less.

        No, less than that….  in Davo’s mind humans are wind-up toys.

        http://www.classicjack.com/contents/media/l_ms369%2Btin%2Bplate%2Bwind%2Bup%2Btoy%2Brobot%2Bdrummer%2B01.jpg

        • Two_9er_fiver

          Stop raping little boys and give your self up to the police.

          • two_amber_lamps

             Oh, so profound! 

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        It’s the folks going out looking for a fight, then shooting someone after getting their ass kicked that troubles the rational individual, or the states (and/or Police departments) who selectively determine who has the right to defend themselves, by their skin color, that troubles rational people.

        Unfortunately, it’s only the rational people who understand this dilemma, not the irrational conservatives who can’t face reality, or facts.

        • Guest

           Trayvon has a message for, shit head. BTW, who are you planning on killing with your semi automatic weapons?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession
          • Onslaught1066

             you’re number 1?

            [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/r7tblv.jpg[/IMG]

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

             http://www.yopyop.com/citizens/images/uploads/bushfinger.jpg

            Yours, photoshopped.  Mine, reality.

          • Onslaught1066

            You’re still number 1 at being number 2.

          • Guest

             The point is you and all your semi automatic weapons that you criticize everyone else for having.

        • Bat One

          It’s the folks going out looking for a fight, then shooting someone after getting their ass kicked…

          Obviously you have the George Zimmerman case in mind, though your pet description has yet to be proved in court (with Alan Dershowitz waiting in the wings)! 

          But I wonder, do you have any examples of what you’ve described, that is proven examples, to offer?  What “folks” have gone out “looking for a fight” and then wound up “shooting someone after getting their ass kicked” as you put it?  Got a couple actual cases you could cite to back that up?  Or are you merely braying sanctimoniously to revel in the sound of your own voice?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            On August 1, 2010, Alexander fought for her life against an abusive husband who, according to her, had every intention of killing her.

            Alexander now awaits trial on three counts of of aggravated assault with no intent to harm, and faces a minimum 20 years in prison after shooting a warning shot into the ceiling to warn her threatening husband from approaching her.

            The judge in the case dismissed Alexander’s motion to receive immunity under the “Stand Your Ground,” and she is struggling to get her story heard.

            Read Marissa Alexander’s story here and read about the denial for protection under the “Stand Your Ground” law here.

            The same “Stand Your Ground Law” that’s been said to be George Zimmerman’s–Trayvon Martin’s killer–saving grace from conviction doesn’t quite hold up for Marissa Alexander.

            This woman is someone who had been abused by her husband and finally fought back–with force, in Florida–the place where the “Stand Your Ground” Law seemingly protects cold blooded murderers.

            It really does depend on who you are, whether or not the “Stand Your Ground” Law will protect you.

            http://hellobeautiful.com/2513534/abused-wife-marissa-alexander-faces-20-year-sentence-stand-your-ground-law-fails-her/

          • Bat One

            Sorry… but predictably, your example doesn’t at all fit the very description you first offered… someone ”
            going out looking for a fight, then shooting someone after getting their ass kicked…”  You can hardly expect anyone to take what you say seriously if you can’t even defend what you’ve said and provide a credible example to back it up.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Just a minute there, lil feller, I DID provide an example of a guy going out looking for a fight, getting his ass kicked then pulling out a gun and murdering the person who fought him. 

            Just because you aren’t smart enough to scroll down doesn’t mean that proving a thorough response to your questions, regarding my complete argument, doesn’t mean I missed the mark.

            If you had bothered to read what I said, instead of look for an opportunity to hear yourself talk, you can see that I also said the following (which does apply):

            or the states (and/or Police departments) who selectively determine who
            has the right to defend themselves, by their skin color, that troubles
            rational people.

            Now that’s at least two good reason to suspend the “stand your ground laws”, but what would you know about a good argument?

          • Bat One

            Sorry.  I’m not in the habit of reading all the drivel you post since so much of it is irrelevant, absurd, or so poorly written as to be unworthy of the effort.

          • Bat One

            I’ve read up a bit on the Alexander case you’ve half-ass cited here.  What’s interesting is that not only did she turn down a pretty reasonable plea deal offered her by the prosecution, but it seems clear to me that had she actually killed her husband instead of shooting up the ceiling whe would likely have got off scot free.

            Incidentally, the judge rejected her “stand your ground” defense because as the situation was described in court she could have escaped through either the front door or the kitchen door.  Which proves my point that until a case is resolved there’s very little sense in getting your thong in a knot over it… even if its a black victim and a hispanic shooter.

          • Matthew

            Under stand your ground she has no duty to retreat.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Exactly, but guys like Bat One would never expect such a response if a white guy was observing blacks robbing a neighbor, in fact I believe he cheered when a man shot two blacks dead for stealing his neighbors belongings.  What happened to the idea of running if you are scared in that case?

            Stand Your Ground isn’t about running.

          • Guest

             ” What happened to the idea of running if you are scared”

            That’s a question you should have asked Trayvon. After all, you’re the one who kept screeching that he was in fear for his life. You hypocritical balding wimp.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Treyvon ran, but Zimmerman followed him….he’s toast.

          • Guest

            Why didn’t Martin call the cops the way Zimmerman did, shorty?

          • You

             Hey, what about those semi automatic weapons you have that you criticize other people of having and planning to kill people?

          • Bat One

            If Trayvon was running away and Zimmerman was chasing him, as you keep insisting (without having been there!), how did Trayvon manage to get shot in the chest at close range?

            Did Zimmerman simply outrun him and get in front of him? Or did he ask him to stop and turn around so he could shoot him at close range, and Trayvon said, okay.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Zimmerman stated on the 911 call that Treyvon ran and that he was chasing him.  I don’t know how to explain those facts to you any clearer.

            The only question is how did the confrontation begin.

          • Bat One

            Same goes for you!  Take it up with the judge, after you’ve read up on the case YOU brought up in the first place!

          • Bat One

            Take it up with the judge… that is, after you’ve read up on the case!

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So, Bat One, it doesn’t trouble you that the “stand your ground doesn’t always apply to those who are trying to defend themselves, but rather, those looking for a fight benefit from it?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So Bat, you are saying people can’t chase someone down the street, then stab them to death because the person they were chasing attempted to fight the person chasing them?  Or rather, there are no cases allowing this to occur?

            Reallly??

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeCRYKYnfr0

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Silence, BO?

          • Guest

             Who are you planning on killing with your semi automatic weapons?

            Silence, short little willie???

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Some say the “Stand Your Ground Law” is an excuse for murderers to get away with killing someone.  I say, well…..the evidence does support the claim that murderers have gone free using this defense:

            Tulsa shootings, 2010 & 2012 (Oklahoma) – In 2010, Carl England attacked a black man he claimed broke into her daughter’s apartment and was shot dead. His killer was not charged, due to Stand Your Ground.

            Two years later, England’s 19-year-old son and his roommate went on a shooting spree in Tulsa’s black community, shooting five people of which three died.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Bat One, you are asking me if there are examples of people looking to start a fight, then lose the fight who later pull their gun to kill that person who was kicking their ass?

            Do I have evidence of this?  Well, yes.  Yes I do.

            Death on the basketball court, 2012 (Florida)
            – Trevor Dooley, 69, took his gun with him to confront a teenager riding a skateboard on the basketball court near his Valrico home. When David James, 41, who was playing basketball with his 8-year-old daughter, stood up for the skateboarder, the men fought and Dooley, a school bus driver shot him dead. Dooley (who is black, James was white) is seeking to dismiss his manslaughter case under Stand Your Ground.

            Now what, Bat One?

          • Bat One

            Have any of the cases you have cited… the ones without rreferenced URLs – yet again – been decided by the courts?  I ask because unless they have been judicially decided they don’t prove much of anything regarding the legality or efficacy or desirability of “stand your ground” statues.

            Of course as I noted earlier, the proper manner for dealing with a state statute with which you object is to work to have that statute repealed, rather than having the federal government intrude on areas which are really no concern of the feds at all.  Does Hawaii have a stand your ground statute?  Or are you simply reveling in the sound of your own self-righteous voice again?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Yes, there are examples that have been decided where a guy goes running down the street chasing a guy, with a knife, only to pull it and kill a man when the man being chased swings a bag at him (missing him).

            Again, you can keep the charade going, but moving the goal posts isn’t helping your credibility in any fashion.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Silence BO??

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Bat One, should this black man, who defended his sons life from a white man threatening them, coming at them with a knife, be serving life in prison?  Yes or no?

            John McNeil. 2005 (Georgia)
            – McNeil, who is black, said his son was frightened by a white contractor, Brian Epp, who pulled a knife. McNeil raced home and when Epp rushed him, shot him in the head. A year later — though the state had by then passed a Stand Your Ground law — prosecutors charged McNeil with second degree murder. Though neighbors testified Epp scared them too, McNeil is serving life in prison.

          • Bat One

            Being a liberal, and thus in your own mind exempt from the limits placed on government actions by the Constitution, you are no doubt blissfully unaware that a law passed AFTER the fact of a crime, such as the stand your ground law you’ve cited here, can have no legal impact on the trial for an action that took place BEFORE the law was enacted.  If it is against the law to piss on the sidewalk and you are cited for doing so, and the law is then repealed you can still be charged and punished under the law as it was at the time of the incident.

          • HG

            You realize your example argues for “stand your ground” laws.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            My argument does not.  My argument shows the inequality of the law as justice is concerned, so if it doesn’t work it should be set aside as to not let Americans kill innocent Americans.

          • Bat One

            You haven’t really made an argument at all.  What you have done is flail around, stupidly trying to play “Gotcha” with the adults again.

            Poor, little fella… if only you could have been born black!

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Sorry, Bat, but I have provided cases that support my statements, that you stupidly assumed were not real cases.

            I also established that this law does not allow justice to occur, but rather injustice.

            Self defense laws should be able to prevent a person from going to jail.  We don’t need this law that encourages immoral behavior and allows some to get away with it.

          • Bat One

            What I think about the McNeill case is irrelevant, and because I know nothing about the case I have no opinion one way or the other.

    • mickey_moussaoui

      Trayvon Martin isn’t a gunshot “victim”. He assaulted a legally armed citizen and got himself killed in the act.

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

         Treyvon Martin stood his ground and got shot by a guy who went chasing after him for walking while black.

        • Tim

           What about the couple who was beaten by a black mob for walking while white?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Those guilty of participating in the fight were arrested by police.  Zimmerman was given a pass by the police.  That’s why the Zimmerman case is an injustice Americans care about, while ass holes like you are making it about black vs. white crime.

          • Tim

             “Those guilty of participating in the fight”

            That was a fight…a mob jumping a man and woman???

            Zimmerman was interrogated for 5 hours, witnesses were interviewed and THEN it was determined it was self defense. The only one making it about black/white is you,  the racist. I never mentioned color.
            The only asshole is the one you suck on.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            “What about the couple who was beaten by a black mob for walking while white, – Tim

            “The only one making it about black/white is you,  the racist. I never mentioned color.” – Tim

            You are a proven liar and an asshole who is making this about whites vs. black crime.

            It’s about justice, douchebag.

          • Tim

             No you racist piece of shit. I was just using your example. The one of black vs white, vice versa.

            “Treyvon Martin stood his ground and got shot by a guy who went chasing after him for walking while black.”
            You idiot.

          • Guest

             Hanni just loves sucking on that asshole.

          • Awfulorv

            No! No! they suck the cock, they pack fecal material into the asshole…

  • Matthew

     300 years of common law gets thrown out by getting rid of the duty to retreat. 

    It seemed to be working out fine.

    But now we have a bunch of dead kids because we encourage fighting.

    Someone explain to me the public policy reason of why somebody should not have the duty to retreat in a deadly fight if the opportunity presents itself?

    • mickey_moussaoui

      Zimmerman was “retreating”. He was walking away from Martin and was jumped from behind by Martin who then assaulted Zimmerman first. Zimmerman only used his weapon after Martin was on top of him and motioned for the gun. This is clear self defense. Martin got himself killed while assaulting a legally armed citizen.

      Zimmerman did Florida Society a favor.

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        Here is a real case where a black man was retreating, and lawfully carrying a gun, who was getting a thug beat down by an Air Force vet….that ended up dead, shot by the black male who was carrying a gun.

        I guess, according to you, this Air Force vet is scum and having him dead is a favor to society?

        According to the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office, the altercation began when Dooley approached the basketball courts in his
        Twin Lakes subdivision telling a skateboarder he wasn’t allowed. James
        protested.

        Dooley, who had a concealed weapons permit, started to walk away with a gun partially visible in his waistband, deputies said. James called after him and Dooley turned back. James lunged, and they both tumbled to the ground.

        James, a 20-year Air Force veteran, was kneeling on top of Dooley when the gun went off.

        • mickey_moussaoui

          stuck on stupid as usual, handiwipe

          make it up as you go. no one expects otherwise from you

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Come on mickeymouse, own your principle.  According to you, this Air Force Veteran who was killed was just scum and now that he’s dead this black male has done America a favor by killing him.

            Surely you aren’t just a racist piece of shit who has different standards for whites and blacks, as Poofy does. Right?

  • SigFan

    Looks like the Democrats knew they couldn’t win this one.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/may/8/democrats-withdraw-trayvon-amendment/

    The right to protect yourself when threatened should never be in question – period.

    • Spook

      This goes beyond that to get rid of a duty to retreat.  WHat you say is irrelevant to the question under consideration.

      • SigFan

        “Duty to retreat” meaning turn tail and run when threatened. That’s a valid response for some, others that have the means and will to defend themselves not so much. If anyone threatens someone they run the risk of retaliatory force – including deadly force and that is simply as it should be. If criminals or others with bad intent know that there is a strong chance that a target victim is capable of defending themselves forcefully the chances are better that nothing will even get started.

        • Spook

          Please, give us more a priori ‘facts’ about how people will behave.

          Stand your ground is going to cut against the interests of the NRA.  I understand that you need to negotiate from a position of power, but they have gone too far with this style of law and it will end up hurting their goals.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Yep, but to nutters it doesn’t matter that Americans get shot dead under odd circumstances, as long as a gun nut is allowed to walk around looking for trouble, they are going to support that gun nuts position to pull the trigger, rightly or wrongly.

  • Spook

    If the states have stand your ground laws, they are likely conservative states and they should be proud to have federal funds withheld, on principle.

    No more whining rent seekers.  Stick up for your principles or shut the fuck up.

  • ‘Tom Crawford

    Democrats withdraw Trayvon amendment

    Democrats backed off of their effort Tuesday to offer a “Trayvon amendment” to pressure states to drop their stand-your-ground laws after learning it was likely to be ruled out of order under the evening’s rules for debate on the House floor.

    Rep. Keith Ellison, Minnesota Democrat, said he will still try to force a debate at a more “appropriate” time in the future, saying action is demanded by the case of Trayvon Martin, the Florida teenager who police said was shot dead in a street encounter with a neighborhood watch volunteer.

    Read the rest here: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/may/8/democrats-withdraw-trayvon-amendment/

    • two_amber_lamps

       The communist Prog Caucus didn’t want the ignominy of watching their dreams dashed on the rocks of the Second Amendment.  Silly Bolsheviks should self-deport.

  • mickey_moussaoui

    Last night south Florida had military maneuvers in the
    city. looks like they are prepping for a race riot from leftist agitators

    • ‘Tom Crawford

      I am curious, as many seem to post left vs right, when looking at protests, tea party, Occupy and other types of protests – which side, left or right tend to be the most destructive, the most violent?

      • Bat One

        Perhaps THIS, from last year’s Madison, Wisconsin protests, will help settle the question for you.

  • Awfulorv

    This just in: Thousands of calls are being received at Sheriff Joe’s Tent City this morning as he institutes a new fitness program for the staff, and inmates.  His deputies have profiled those under their authority and are  marching them around the grounds of the prison to the tune of the Colonel Bogey March.  The scene is quite reminiscent of the Wasup given General Masahanni by David Nivenwoof and his merry band of River Kwai bridge builders. It appears the reports of violence against profiled Hispanic, and black inmates, has been, vastly, sensationalized as the only thing hanging from the Saquaro trees this morning are spider webs and hummingbird nests. 

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