Dear Pro-Lifers: Can You Stop Being A Bunch Of Weirdos?

T5o491jfqS1Nfc3_k55fC12uJXyGDfMX_atuFKm6yvk

Yesterday my family and I headed out to the North Dakota State Fair for the opening weekend. We hit the fairgrounds after a seemingly interminable parade, and somewhere on the grounds someone representing a pro-life group (there were a couple of different ones in the parade, which isn’t surprising given how high-profile the issue has become in the state) handed my five-year-old daughter a little rubber baby.

There are no markings on the thing, which looks like something out of a movie about aliens. No political message or URL. Just a creepy, squishy lump of skin-colored rubber.

We threw it a way, and we noticed a lot of the weird little creepies littering the garbage bins.

I’m about as pro-life as they come. From a scientific perspective, life begins at conception, and it amazes me how often that simple fact gets obscured in the abortion debate. But even an “extremist” (as our friends on the left are wont to call those who disagree with them) like me sees many of the tactics the pro-life right uses as counter-productive.

Let’s face it, there is a caricature of the pro-life activist that has been ingrained in the public’s consciousness by the media and entertainment industry, and it doesn’t do the pro-life movement any good when they prove themselves worthy of that caricature.

Whatever group is out there trying to promote the pro-life message by handing out squish alien babies, stop. You’re doing more harm than good.

avatar

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

Related posts

  • awfulorv

    I agree though, to be more accurate, they should have added some color to the object

  • Jessica Schmidt Port

    I agreed with you up until you said little creepies, squishy lumps, and alien babies, which pretty much sums up how pro-abortionist look at unborn babies. I do not agree with handing them out to little children. It was kind of weird. But they are just models of unborn human babies.

    • Sansa

      Um, no. I am staunchly pro-choice and would never tell anyone how to view their pregnancy. To some women their pregnancy IS a creepy thing. Stop trying to police our reactions to our own bodies.

      • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

        To some women their pregnancy IS a creepy thing.

        Wow.

        Stop trying to police our reactions to our own bodies.

        If it were just your body, I’d agree, but the scientific reality is that there’s another body and life involved.

        • Crystal Bass

          Actually there are studies now that show conciousness does not occur until 23-25 weeks.
          I’d be less for allowing women to choose abortion as an option if we took care of society better as a country. Many of the “pro-life” movement care so much about not aborting pregnancy but to heck with welfare and healthcare for the mom and baby after she has it. What the heck is up with that? Want to lower our families on welfare and public help that we DO have? then we need to have programs that give out free birth control to those who want it. You cannot claim to be pro-life when you don’t want to help pay for that baby you forced to be born by not allowing abortions. (personally i feel 20 weeks is far enough to wait, but early enough you can get it when it still looks like a mass of connected circles)

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            Actually there are studies now that show conciousness does not occur until 23-25 weeks.

            Consciousness is a poor metric for personhood. Otherwise, we could kill blacked out drunks and coma patients with impunity.

            I’d be less for allowing women to choose abortion as an option if we took care of society better as a country. Many of the “pro-life” movement care so much about not aborting pregnancy but to heck with welfare and healthcare for the mom and baby after she has it.

            The problem is that many of us disagree that the social programs you’re endorsing are helping. There are good arguments to suggest that these programs do more harm than good.

            But here’s the problem with the argument you’re making; You’re saying it’s better for society to kill these children than to have a debate over the social programs some of them might use.

            That sets a pretty monstrous precedent, I think.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            We kill the brain dead with impunity to harvest their organs. Your fantasy of killing children, which you seem to enjoy, is neither scientific or sane.

          • 7point62

            (We kill the brain dead with impunity)
            Not really…
            The marxist academics are thriving off the taxpayers, huh.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling
          • 7point62

            Leftist ideologues such as your self are brain dead…Give up your organs….

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am an organ donor. When I die, my spare parts, if they are useful, will go to others.

          • PK

            Just for your information, some places will just let you die, when you can be saved, to harvest your organs because a whole set of healthy organs run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s much safer to have a living will and family that knows you want to give your organs when you die, than to have “DONOR” on your federal ID card.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nobody should go to the hospital with an ombudsman to look after them. Hospitals are a dangerous place to be sick.

          • stardreamer42

            I see somebody’s been spending too much time watching Faux News and reading the National Enquirer.

          • 7point62

            Very noble and worth while cause on your part.
            Because of a childhood illness called rheumatic fever,
            I can’t even give blood. The carnal mans feet of clay doesn’t get saved anyway so might as well be freely given by individual choice for human kinds benefit, IMHO…

          • P. McCoy

            Abortion is as akin to child killing as breaking eggs to make an omlette is as akin to animal abuse.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            They are crazy. It is obvious.

          • jack1

            There are 3 problems with the argument you’re making, Rob:

            1. You don’t understand the science
            2. You assume that women are less autonomous than men, and
            3. You only care about the fetus—once a child is born they’re on their own, and if they go to bed hungry you’re completely comfortable with that.

            Sounds like you’re the monster here, my friend.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          You are definitely no scientist. It is not instant baby. There is no body until I make it out of my flesh and pain. Given that aborting is safer than pregnancy, I will decide when, where, if and how I give birth. Not YOU. And most certainly not the State.

          • Virginia

            Abortion is not always safer than childbirth. Here is a copy of a consent form for abortion. Note the last paragraph: http://operationrescue.org/pdfs/SWO%20Consent%20Form.pdf

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            In the real world there are real facts. You should try facts sometime. You might find it a refreshing experience.
            http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2012/01/23/abortion-safer-for-women-than-childbirth-study-claims

          • sbark

            Your focus is on the physical only———the long term mental and physc effects of having an abortion have to be weighed in also.

            http://www.bing.com/search?q=long+term+mental+effects+of+abortion&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=long+term+mental+effects+of+abortion&sc=0-30&sp=-1&sk=

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            A page of google references proves nothing but that your subject is discussed. Do you have a medical source?

          • sbark

            ……you have the “choice” of looking thru the search……you like choice …right? then use it.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am not the one making the argument that abortion causes ptsd. You are. You must prove it with a valid source. Or not. Suit yourself.

            I am asserting, as I did with a specific link, that abortion is a very safe medical procedure. 14 times safer than giving birth. My source was US News.

          • jack1

            Plum: Teabaggers believe every single thing Sean Hannity tells them, and they don’t believe anything else. Anything. So trying to show them “facts” or “reality” is a pointless exercise.

            Teabaggers will always try to control anybody who isn’t a white Christian upper class straight male. They hate women almost as much as they hate foreigners.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Well said. You have academic support:

            Probably about 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population is so right-wing authoritarian, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed, and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds. They would march America into a dictatorship and probably feel that things had improved as a result. … And they are so submissive to their leaders that they will believe and do virtually anything they are told. They are not going to let up and they are not going away. – Altemeyer, The Authoritarians.

        • WingedBeast

          You know, there’s another body and life involved in a person’s decision on whether or not to be an organ donor. Does that mean that the law should mandate organ donation?

        • Jack1

          Actually Rob, you’re wrong on the science. I could show you but don’t believe anything except what Rush tells you to think..

          A woman doesn’t give up control of her entire body just because you came.

        • P. McCoy

          When it’s in a parasitic relationship with my own body, I get to be in charge 24/7. Against abortion THEN DON’T HAVE ONE.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      I am PRO abortion for any woman who wants an abortion. I am PRO birth for any woman who wants to give birth. Run your own sexual life and keep your nose out of mine.

      • sbark

        hmmm……..so then you are also PRO planned parenthood and their push of promiscuity down into even the lower highschool age level—which is what the supposed NDSU “research” project would’ve been doing, no diff than their projects all around the nation………..
        …….go ahead and be PRO Choice……but don’t do it with taxpayer funding from the Fed govt via Planned Parenthood……which then promotes teenage sex in order to have a running supply of abortions.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Any Teen, and I cannot imagine why any young person would come here, can find all the information they want or need about sex confidentially at TeenWire. You can find out about low cost contraception, sex, STDs and how to avoid them, and abortion.
          http://www.plannedparenthood.org/info-for-teens/

          • sbark

            Why isn’t abstinence a main subject in their so very informative website?—-the kids should be informed of a available “choice”……..not?

            Whatever happened to NO means NO —even the “god of womans rights” Bill Clinton signed a law in 1996……….and he was a shining example using a cigar to uphold his “principles”……

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You be abstinent. I will save France.

          • sbark

            So you don’t even want that particular “choice” as an option for kids to consider then right?………..I thought is was all about informed choices……
            Appears its about choices of ideology.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            This is a short essay about abstinence that appears on my blog:
            Teen Abstinence: A WINNING Advantage

            Many teens do not realize that abstinence from sex with partners is a winning advantage. This is why I think it’s important to give teens a list of the freedoms that abstinence provides. The top ten winning advantages of teen abstinence are:

            1. Freedom from unwanted teen pregnancy and teen motherhood.
            2. Freedom from incurable STDs like Herpes and fatal STDs like AIDS.
            3. Freedom to concentrate on school work and participate in school activities.
            4. Freedom to get all homework assignments and studying done and maintain or improve grades.
            5. Freedom to participate in learning programs for future jobs and careers.
            6. Freedom to graduate with classmates and receive a high school diploma.
            7. Freedom to move on to college or vocational school with no restrictions.
            8. Freedom to complete a college or vocational program with a degree or certificate.
            9. Freedom to look for and accept good jobs with higher salaries.
            10. Freedom to get valuable job experience in a chosen career and take courses to learn more job skills.

            Getting pregnant and becoming a teen mother will, quite possibly, take away most of these freedoms, if not all of them. A teen mom has to put the care of her baby first, which means putting her education second. If she has to study for an important test and the baby is sick, the studying may not get done because she has to care for the baby. That may result in her doing poorly on the exam instead of doing well. If a teen mom wants to attend her junior or senior prom but has no one to watch the baby for her, she can’t go to the dance and has to stay home. If a teen mom is going to college, she may fail one or more classes because caring for her baby or child took priority over completing all her course requirements. A teen mom may even have to drop out of high school or college because she could not take care of her baby and do all her school work at the same time.

            By contrast, a teen girl who realizes that abstinence from sex in high school and college is a clear winning advantage will avoid sex with partners during those years. She will keep her freedom to enjoy all the advantages that teen abstinence offers. She is free to concentrate in school, get all her class and homework assignments done, attend any dances she wishes, and take part in school activities like working on the school newspaper or yearbook. Best of all, she will graduate with her class and go on to college or vocational school afterward.

            If she avoids sexual activity with partners during her college or vocational school years, she will continue to enjoy the advantages indefinitely. She may even decide at some point that she prefers the career world over marriage and children, which is a perfectly valid choice. Not all women wish to be wives and mothers.

            It is my firm belief that there is nothing good about getting pregnant as a teenager. Teen pregnancy and teen motherhood can impair or even destroy a girl’s ability to get a good education, which is the foundation for good employment. If a girl cannot get a good job because she doesn’t have a high school diploma, poverty may become inevitable.

            Sadly, many teen girls don’t know how very hard teen motherhood is until it is too late. They don’t know because no one ever told them, either at home or at school. It is about time that changed. The “just say no” approach to abstinence-only sex education programs is miserably inadequate because it doesn’t explain WHY teens, especially girls, should say no to sex. Encouraging abstinence is fine, as long as teens are given good reasons why abstinence is better for teens than sex. The top ten list of winning advantages is a good informational tool to start off with. When a large majority of teens have this information, they may soon begin to realize that enjoying the advantages of abstinence is a much better option for them than being trapped by the burden of teen motherhood.

          • sbark

            Good for you…….now take it to Huff Po, take that message of that absitence is even a “choice” the the radical left wing sites……….dont retain that message in a private blog with how many readers?
            Take that message to the left wing masses……..the radical pro-abortionists like in Texas that will probably throw feces at you given the chance..ah I mean the “choice”

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            31,000 readers so far. I am an anarchist. That is far right on some scales.

          • sbark

            how many repeat “offenders”?………
            an anarchist doesn’t surprise me……your passion for certain subjects seems to mirror those in radical Islam…….are you also willing to go to the same “ends” as they are to put your ideology in place?
            Anarchy far right……..right on some scales meaning those on the radical left who also want to deny their history of KKK and Hitlers Facism, Marxism…..

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            How dramatic. You should write for the Soaps.

          • sbark

            show me a peacefull anarchist movement in history of any size or scope.
            They are people who are willingly riled up and froth at the mouth by the radical left who use them as useful idiots to achieve their tyrannical govts.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Your ideas about political theory are childish.

          • sbark

            An anarchist an OWS’r is an adult viewpoint? Call me when you enter the atmosphere again…….an anarchist that loves govt force via planned parenthood and judicial rule by fiat….can you sleep at night?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You have no idea what I love. You have not asked.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            “show me a peacefull anarchist movement in history of any size or scope.”

            Eezey Peezey. Quakers. Not terribly large but the people capable of living this way are not common.

          • J_Enigma32

            The Spanish Civil War. The CNT-FAI. What do I get for winning?

          • sbark

            from wiki…….
            leaving the CNT leadership under firm FAI control by the time of the Spanish Civil War. Members of the FAI were at the forefront of the fight against Francisco Franco’s forces during the Civil War
            ……..show me “peaceful movement” inside that bit of history
            Now lets talk Min-archist…………..minimal govt…..ie Tea Party, Founding Fathers

          • J_Enigma32

            Uh, yeah? I did say “Spanish Civil War”. That does sort of have “Civil War” in it. Which, you know, sort of implies a “war”, which would imply “conflict.” Part of that “conflict” was because Franco was attacking them.

            If you want to play this game, I want you to show me a single peaceful minarchist and minimal government movement at all (and not the Tea Party; lunatic racists running around with loaded firearms is anything but peaceful; I’d feel more peaceful in a pool with great whites than I would at a Tea party rally).

          • sbark

            give me an example of Tea Party violence…………there were beating but that was SEIU Union thugs doing the dirty work……
            Violence is part and parcel of the Left–Hitler, Stalin, Mao, che’ KKK, Weather Underground……..the Left –because they have no idea’s, they need to slaughter those who see the 100% failure in anything they touch.
            Racists—–again the history is in the Dem’cat party—KKK was a Dem’cat strongarm organization for 60 yrs, and is todays focus by the Dem’cat party on generational welfare, abortion and even minimum wage any less destruction pinpointed at Black Americans?………..the KKK was compassionate in comparison.
            Your no anarchist………..your just another Leftist Liberal that loves big govt, and that shows your contempt for the ave Americans around you.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I think you need to do some reading. Your ideas about political theory are childish. Like your ideas about abortion.

            Contemporary Anarchist Writing
            Anarchism, Heterosexism and Secular Religions – by Martin Howard, 1998
            How I Became an Anarchist – by Ken Knabb, Bureau of Public Secrets, Berkeley, CA (1997)
            Anarchism: Ideology or Methodology? – by Dave Neal (1997)
            YOUNG AND ANGRY? – by George Alexandrou … Anarchism needs new blood …
            Anarchy or patriarchy? – Between May 8-10 1998, La Gryffe, an anarchist book shop in Lyon (France), organized a series of anarchist days…
            attacks on anarchism. by Hal draper … and david mcnally
            Objections to Anarchism – by By Michael E. Coughlin – originally published in serial form in the dandelion between Summer 1977 and Summer 1979
            http://www.zpub.com/notes/aan-read.html

          • PK

            So under your ideal anarchist society, how would we have private property, a court system to settle disputes and damages, or even roads? Historically, anarchy always leads to people begging for a system to protect them from all the thugs robbing and killing everybody, since there’s no system in place to protect anyone, then that demand for a system always leads to a dictatorship by an oligarchy. Why wouldn’t you just support a strict adherence to the Constitution and Bill of Rights if you want the government out of your life? The first 100 years of our country’s existence created the most wealth and technology, which created the highest quality of life, any society had ever achieved in all of history, because the government was chained down out of our lives and was only there to protect the individual. This last century we saw a slow erosion of the proper role of government, which has destroyed what America used to be and has converted us into a Communist/Fascistic system. Why would you want to completely throw out the system that empowered and protected the individual, that allowed man to go from a horse and carriage and candles, to the internal combustion engine and electricity in a hundred years?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Why do you think anarchism requires the “throwing out” of “the state” or the disobeying of laws? You need to do some political reading before you are ready to debate political philosophy. You seem to lack vital information about the subject.

          • PK

            Oh ok, so you don’t define anarchy as an absence of government? I think i’m well read enough to debate you dumpling. Tell me your definition of anarchy then.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            This will do:

            The German philosopher Immanuel Kant treated “Anarchy” in his Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View as consisting of “Law and Freedom without Force”. Thus, for Kant, anarchy falls short of being a true civil state because the law is only an “empty recommendation” if force is not included to make this law efficacious. For there to be such a state, force must be included while law and freedom are maintained, a state which Kant calls republic.[50][51]
            As summary Kant named four kinds of government:
            A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).
            B. Law and force without freedom (despotism).
            C. Force without freedom and law (barbarism).
            D. Force with freedom and law (republic).

          • PK

            Ok, so yeah, you define anarchy as an absence of government, just like i said. You do support the “throwing out” of the Republic, just like i said. You can’t have law and freedom without force, because who’s going to enforce the law, that protects People’s freedom? How could you settle a dispute, if there’s no system to carry it through? How can there be real private property, if someone can claim your property as theirs, with no system to force that person to give your property back? Anarchy has never worked. Throughout history this has been the cycle,
            1. Tyranny
            2. The people overthrow the controllers and have anarchy.
            3. That anarchy leads to people begging for a system to protect them.
            4. That demand leads to another tyranny.

            A Republic is the only way to have an actual civil society. There has to be a system that protects the individual, and a true republic has historically been shown to be the best system we can have. Anarchy will only lead to tyranny.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No. Where did you get absence of government from what I posted? If you are not going to read my responses and respond in terms of what I actually typed, we have no basis for further conversation.

          • PK

            Laws without a system to enforce those laws in NOT government. If you can’t understand that, we certainly have no basis for further conversation. Good day to you.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I did not say that anarchy is “laws without a system to enforce those laws”. You said that several times. Evidently you cannot read for comprehension. And you cannot tell the difference between yourself and others. Now that is a truly primitive state of being.

          • PK

            “A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).”

            Evidently you cannot understand what you copy and paste from wikipedia.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Force is not the only system of government that regulates behavior. Absence of enforcement by force does not mean absence of government or enforcement, as you insist.

          • PK

            Um no, there’s no enforcement without force. How can there be? Force doesn’t just mean kicking doors in and arresting people, it means binding law that is enforced. Anarchy’s laws are nothing more than non-binding guidelines that offer no protections or penalties, hence is why it’s called anarchy. I’m not so sure you understand what you think you are.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Because you cannot imagine it and do not know about it does not mean such a society does not exist.

          • PK

            It’s funny how you’re so condescending, accusing me of not comprehending, understanding, seeing or even being able to imagine what you’re saying. I seem to know more about anarchy and its history than you, which is probably why i know that anarchy can never work and why you are a self declared anarchist. Communism sounds good on paper, so does anarchy, to the historically blind, but in the real world they always ends up very bad for the regular person. I’m telling you, there needs to be a binding rule of law in order to have a civil society. It sucks because that system always gets highjacked by dominant men after the founder’s decedents get lazy and distracted, but it is reality.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Anarchism, as postulated by Kant, works for Quakers, for example, quite well.

          • J_Enigma32

            No, it has. See: The CNT-FAI, during the Spanish Civil War. It worked quite well.

          • J_Enigma32

            Depends upon the school of anarchism. I know it wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll answer anyway. You have three schools of thought here: Libertarian Socialism, Anarcho-Communism, and Deontological/Natural Rights Libertarianism.

            Blue Libertarianism supports personal property and public property but not private property. Mutualism is an example of Blue Libertarianism. So is Libertarian Marxism.

            Anarcho-Communism is communism as Marx envisioned, not as Stalin realized, Stateless, moneyless, classless. Respects only public property, not personal or private.

            Deontological/Natural Rights Libertarians are the stereotype of libertarians; think Ayn Rand. Strong personal and private property, but no public.

            There’s your soundbite. You can go research them some more, but I gave you a launching point.

          • rangerider

            And to some it is just another form of commie:-)

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            To some Fred Astaire is a poodle dog.

          • P. McCoy

            Then abstinence should include castration for randy teen age boys who will use rape or blame the girl’s bare ankle, bare shoulder, uncovered hair or elbow as the reason why the devil drives him to rape. Pro lifers are closet Moslems who want to establish their own form of sharia here in the United States. We will not let that happen.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            We will not let that happen.

          • Mitten

            Abstinence education does not work. States that teach abstinence have higher rates of teen pregnancy than those that teach actual methods of birth control.

            Yes it would be nice if you could tell your children “no” and they would forever mind you. However, we all have to live in the real world. Teenagers will have sex, they have had sex since the beginning of time. You can put your head in the sand and believe that saying no will work or you can face facts.

          • sbark

            Maybe in your left wing circle, where peer pressure to have sex is immense in the youth of that “world”…….

            CDC report……..based on survey results from 13,495 respondents collected over a two-year span. It found that among teenagers ages 15-17, a majority of both boys (68 percent) and girls (67 percent) had never had sexual intercourse. Within the same 15-17 year old age bracket, 53 percent of boys and 58 percent of girls reported never having any sexual contact of any kind…………but I suppose you don’t know any kids like that huh????
            Now ….if we could get the Fed Govt to spend as much as abstinence programs ….vrs…..Planned Parenthood programs, contraception and promoting sexual promiscuity……the govt spends 10-1 in favor of sex promotion to teenagers……over 1 billion vrs 100 million……..

          • Mitten

            How about a few facts: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/04/10/461402/teen-pregnancy-sex-education/

            So the ones who are having sex should have no sex education whatsoever because most aren’t having sex? By your numbers 1 out of 3 teens are having some kind of sex. That seems like a pretty high rate to me.

            You keep saying that the government is encouraging teens to have sex. Where is your proof of that? Why would the government want to encourage teens to have unprotected sex? Sources please.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          I read your comment again. I am shaking my head. You think anyone needs to “promote” sex to teenagers? LOL. The Asexual must not make public health law for the normally sexual. That does not work.

          • sbark

            Why then is the PP site presented like sex is like eating breakfast in the morning….they are trying to portray to kids that sex is just something everyone does a Sandra Fluke dozen times per day like drinking water.
            …why…….
            They need a supply of pregnant teenagers that want abortions….and they then get Fed govt money………..and now add in funding from ObamaCare for abortions………..

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            The entire PP budget is online for public review because it is a not for profit corporation if you have questions about their scope of treatment.

            Some people do indeed have sex every day. The Asexual must not make public health law for the more normally sexed.

          • sbark

            …….not for profit ……is like saying Bill Clinton wasn’t for sex……..Like saying Gosnall wasn’t for murder.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling
          • sbark

            Saying the PP is a pure non-profit is like saying Unions are non-profit…and yet they have some 30 billion built up reserves for poltical action……….it must just be “excess revenue” huh?

            Stats…….. in 2011-2012 PPFA “slaughtered a record 333,964 preborn children, generating an estimated $150 million in excess revenue,” and that overall nearly $1.2 billion in revenue was generated.

            “PPFA’s income included a hefty and ever-increasing check from American taxpayers. In 2009-2010, government funding reached a whopping $487.4 million. In 2010-2011 the figure jumped to $538.5 million. The total for 2011-2012 reached a staggering $542.4 million, which represents 45.2 percent of the group’s total annual budget,”

            ***

            the “excess”revenue for 2010-2011 was a record $155.5 million, while in 2011-2012, the excess was $87.4 million
            Since the 2000-2001 fiscal year, PPFA has had a total ‘excess’ of $771 million.”…..
            …….if Exon claimed a category of “excess revenue”…….would you be also content with that verbage?…..or would the Left scream PROFITs!!!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Not for profit does not mean you have no money. It means what you can spend it on and receive a tax exemption for is limited by law.

          • sbark

            That’s a big 180 turn……….your every insinuation to the low information readers previously was that PP was some poor downtrodden charity just getting by meal to meal, paycheck to paycheck……I gathered from you that their employees were Christ-like…….sacrificing their lives for their cause’

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I make no “insinuations.” I support my assertions with the best information I can find. Insinuation is your bag. It is stupid argument but you seem attached to it. I bet folks run when they so you coming.

          • sbark

            your like every leftwinger…………..argument by omission of facts. Dependent on the low information citizen to just nod and agree with even a little intimidation or raised voice

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am providing facts that can be checked. You are providing drivel and bloviation. I have yet to see support for your PTSD argument.

          • sbark

            you can use google……….its just that you don’t want information that might conflict with your ideology.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You have no idea what I know or believe. You have spent our time together telling me what YOU think I believe and know.

            You do not support your arguments with facts. You give false information for the most part.

          • 7point62

            It isn’t hard to tell a progressive from the babble they dribble and the conformity to the new age line of false morality they spit up.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I despise Progressives. They are obnoxious zealots like you. Just on different ends of the political spectrum.

          • 7point62

            Even worse than a progressive.
            A know it all know nothing army of one..

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            So far you have offered nothing but opinion and bible quotes. No facts.

          • 7point62

            Facts with mans wisdom is false.
            Scriptural Truth is Spiritually discerned.

          • PK

            Have you read what this demon writes about on her blog?
            http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/

            ” I will have hot monkey sex because I like………If I get pregnant, I will give birth or abort”

            “Note to the National Security Agency: I
            think it is time that you and the FBI rid the American landscape of
            these zealot stalkers and terrorists who have the hubris to call
            themselves “prolife.””

            This gal is nuts.

          • 7point62

            10X
            Demonic deceived and self enlightened mad.
            Alot of them before Christ came, and a lot of them as Grace is pulled from the world as the Church readies for His Return…When the last one who will receive Salvation by Grace does?
            We will be going Home, huh.
            Sooner today than yesterday…

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You read my blog? Thank you. I made a wee bit of money when you visited. Did you leave a comment? That would be nice.

          • PK

            I liked the one about Skynet killing everyone, except for the part about climate change and making fun of people who think the government wants our guns. The controllers of Skynet actually created the hoax of climate change to shut down industry and to create a global tax system. Other than that, it’s the sanest thing i’ve seen you write about. I wonder if they’ll actually make the autonomous robots look like Arnold.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You have a rich full fantasy life.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You read a different essay than I typed.

          • PK

            No… i read this off your blog.

            “And the government (yours and mine) is working on robot soldiers to kill a lot of us when:

            climate change produces riots because of famine and lack of potable water everywhere or

            there is an “American Spring.” Mass civil rights demonstrations and food riots are so messy.
            Governments are planning to kill you and me only if necessary, of course. And they have the machines to do us now in great numbers. Right now. And they are working on improving them. And they have secret courts who rubber stamp their spying on us. ”

            So stop with the “lizard people” and “they coming to take our guns,
            RickyBoy” conspiracy theories and wake up. Just because you are
            paranoid does not mean no one is following you. Wake the fuck up, World.
            We all have a big problem. And we cannot solve it if we do not help
            each other.”

            You implied that climate change is real and that the government wanting our guns is a conspiracy theory. We’re actually going into an ice age and the government certainly wants our guns. I know all about DARPA’s ongoing program to develop autonomous killer robots. The Air Force has publicly announced they have autonomous drones that can land on aircraft carriers. We have directed energy, laser weapon systems too, just like in the Star Wars movie. Coincidentally those weapons came out of the Star Wars program, that Reagan started in the 80s, that used early 1900s Tesla “death ray” technology. SKYNET isn’t a term created by the Terminator movies, it comes from western military’s(NATO) satellite communications systems from the 1960s. So yeah, i don’t think i misunderstood your little blog post.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Certainly was a lazy description of what I wrote first time. This is much more accurate.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            If it a fact that in the Bible Jehovah recommends abortion as a tool of genocidal war. Mosaic law has a trial by ordeal for adultery that is an abortion administered by a priest/judge of the Temple, the expelled fetus being the proof of her crime. Now is that man’s wisdom or spiritual truth?

          • 7point62

            Your deception started with “IF”.
            That is how the devil works.
            lies deceptions and half truths
            taken as human understanding and false enlightenment..

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Typo. Here is the skinny from Hosea:

            “The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords.”

          • 7point62

            Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.
            If the potter makes some vessels for honor and others for destruction?
            Who are you to tell the potter what He can do with His Creation?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I make pottery.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling
          • sbark

            On the road. Google abortion mental side effects….or do I need to spell it for you also

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You need to present a link from a unbiased source that proves abortion causes PTSD or other mental side effects. You asserted such. You must support YOUR argument. I have supported mine. Or do not and just admit, by default, that you cannot prove your assertion.

      • Mark 2112

        fine, then don’t ask me or the gov’t to PAY to what is MURDER. you demand that gov’t keeps its hands off of ‘your body’ – yet demand that same gov’t to pay for your ‘choice’ — btw, its not YOUR body — the child has limbs, a head and its own nervous system…that is NOT your body. IT IS MURDER. PERIOD

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          I love the narcissism of the average Forced Birther. They walk into a parlor (state house, church etc.) which they know will have both pros and antis present. Instead of making a reasoned argument against abortion, they YELL MURDER. And everybody rewards these miscreants with their attention.

          Ask them how they plan to fund the investigation, trial and incarceration of 1/3 of the female population and provide for the children they will inevitably leave behind, and you will not get a rational answer. I submit that these folks are not rational.

          These bills made into laws at the public’s expense are repeatedly put down by the courts. They are unconstitutional on their face. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. No sane court is going to take control of my Pudenda away from me and turn it over to nine fruitbat Republicans in Iowa.

          I believe Forced Birthers suffer from a paraphilia (perversion) that has characteristics of voyeurism, sexual sadism, and exhibitionism. I do not believe that their activities ( like carrying snuff porn around shopping centers and shaming and stalking women ) should be any more legal than standing on the corner in your raincoat exhibiting your Junk is legal.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Hyde Amendment.

      • EdinburghEye

        Exactly. Prolifers who go around handing out squishy alien babies to five-year-olds may be silly, but prolifers who go around trying to change the law so that a woman who needs an abortion may not be able to get it safely, are dangerous. Women die where abortion isn’t safely available. (And prolifers who don’t support universal healthcare free at point of access, available to all, are pure hypocrites: but we knew that.)

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Well said.

  • Guest

    I received one of them yesterday at the parade and I have to say all I could do is laugh. I didn’t quite know what to do with it – so it became trash. The stickers they gave my children were “smile – your mother chose life”. I agree with the heartbeat bill but I didn’t care for their tactics – although, that is the one part of the parade I shared with all my friends and relatives so maybe they are geniuos.

  • Chelcey Cervantes

    I received one of them yesterday at the parade and I have to say all I could do was laugh. I didn’t quite know what to do with it – so it became trash. The stickers they gave my children were “smile – your mother chose life”. I agree with the heartbeat bill but I didn’t care for their tactics – although, that is the one part of the parade I shared with all my friends and relatives, so maybe they are genius.

  • Jeremiah Glosenger

    I don’t purport to know how effective or possibly damaging to the pro-life cause this will be. That is certainly debatable; however, it is important to understand and discuss why such a tactic might be conceived as being necessary.

    Those who support a mother’s unilateral choice to kill her unborn child actually encourage the practice for dubious reasons. They know that if a mother actually sees the form of the unborn (with eyes, ears, fingers, toes), see him or her move, listen to his or her heartbeat–that they overwhelmingly choose life (and walk out of Planned Abortionhood). This is why they fight vehemently against ultrasound legislation, because it works. They won’t even support legislation that simply states that if a child survives a botched abortion, that the physician has a duty to see that the child receives life-saving medical care. They won’t support it, because they don’t want anything to possibly slow down their abortion mills.

    Planned Parenthood deceives these mothers by referring to a human as a “pregnancy.” They say they are just terminating the “pregnancy.” They re-phrase and carefully couch their words to try to avoid provoking any resistance or guilt by the mother considering letting them kill her child.

    I’m sure that educating people, including children, about the stages of human development and dismissing the false assertion that a human at 9 weeks gestation is simply a piece of tissue was their intended goal. Remember, they will take your 12 yr old daughter from school to a clinic in some places without even notifying her parents to coerce an abortion. I’m sure this group realizes they need to get the information out to those younger than 12.

    You may feel it was in poor taste and ineffective. That is your opinion and that is fine, you may be right; however, it did get people talking and even made North Dakota’s most popular blog as a result ;)

    The more important discussion is why they feel the need to resort to such things and to discuss what they are up against. Perhaps they felt it was important to do even if it could save “just one life”

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      No thank you. I know what is in the womb. I had a miscarriage at two months. I poked around in the bloody goo. Nothing resembling a human could be seen. I have a copy of Our Bodies, Ourselves. I took Biology 101. I know how to use google. Not one of you zealots is sane. Not one.

      • Jeremiah Glosenger

        I’m sorry to hear about your miscarriage; however, your cited academic credentials and anecdotal anatomical exploration of “goo” is neither impressive nor convincing. Perhaps your use of Google might lead you to a more accurate assessment such as found below. Assuming your gestational period was correctly calculated, your lost child would have resembled the last image. It really isn’t up for debate among “sane” people. (http://php.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/images/e/e5/Human_Carnegie_stage_1-23.jpg)

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          It was MY GOO. Your link is no good.

          • Mark 2112

            no it wasn’t YOURS. It was another person’s.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            There is not AN OTHER person until a fetus survives birth. Words have meaning.

          • sbark

            so then why in the event of a car accident…..where a pregnant mother and fetus is killed………..can the other driver be charged with a double man slaughter charge…………actions have meanings……actions speak louder than words

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I never heard of “double manslaughter.” I have heard of two counts of homicide. I am not sure what you mean. Those laws do not affect the legal personhood of the fetus.

            That is why the Roman Catholic hospital chain made the argument that “a fetus is not a person” in a recent suit for malpractice against them.
            http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/24/fetuses-not-people-catholic-hospital-says-in-court-case/1863013/

          • Mark 2112

            really, so there are no limbs? no head? and only if ‘it’ survives? i guess only after birth everything up to that point is based on dead material. you can try to justify abortion however you want, but when you want to see what it really is, you’ll wonder how any sane person would willfully kill a child.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            A fetus is human, it is alive like my liver is alive, it may be unwanted.

          • Mark 2112

            yeah, his link has factual information that has big words….no wonder you couldn’t understand it.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What is it about “the link is bad” you do not understand?

          • two_amber_lamps

            Obviously your google-foo is white belt since you merely had to remove the parenthesis at the end of the link. But then as is typical for a lib you’re not going to do much more than the bare minimum… maybe a gov’t employee should have directed you how to rectify the situation and you might have had better results.

            Meanwhile, it’s merely a restatement of the picture above, you already should have the gist of the argument, if you chose to listen.

            8-ball says “outlook not good.”

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I have no idea what you are writing about. Word salad.

          • two_amber_lamps

            I’ll attribute that to your room temperature IQ.

            (Translation, I just called you stupid)

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Spoonbread and Strawberry Wine

          • two_amber_lamps

            Strawberry wine? Lol… shoulda had you pegged from the outset. Do you stack tires on the roof of your trailer-house too?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Avocado with Devil Sauce

          • two_amber_lamps
          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Deviled Chicken with Patio Potatoes

          • two_amber_lamps

            Please be silent. I don’t conversate with RACISTS such as yourself. Perhaps you should stop referring to people as coons if you wish to have any credibility in a forum such as this? Welcome to the 50′s Mr. Plum Bigot.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Blueberry Pie with Vanilla Ice Cream

          • two_amber_lamps

            Prejudiced pie with vanilla ice cream.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Aardvark.

          • LenYol

            It’s probably the Stockton sex offender who, when he has nothing to say describes food or food prices.

          • ellinas1

            Oh, poor Lenard sees me everywhere.
            Did I traumatize your weak soul?

          • LenYol

            Since I never mentioned you by name, you obviously know what you are.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Hot Dogs and Baked Beans

      • Mark 2112

        so you miscarried something that was never alive? you make no sense.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          A fetus is human, it is alive like my arm is alive, it may be unwanted.

  • http://www.shockandblog.com/ Jay McHue

    Apparently, you’ve never seen a pro-”choice” rally, Rob.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      I have, actually, several. But I think thepro-life movement should aspire to something better than their behavior.

      • SusanBeehler

        I can not believe you do not get the purpose as a right to life supporter, I would think you would. Maybe the parade is not the best place to give them out but Right to Life has a booth at the State Fair in commercial building 2 and has been educating fair goers for years, this is what a baby looks like at the time it can be aborted. Many little girls come away from their NDRL booth holding their precious baby. Maybe your thinking is “weird” if you do not understand visual props for educational purposes.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        What pro choice behavior is worse than showing children on the street the severed head of a putrefying full term stillbirth? What pro choice behavior is worse than assassinating, bombing, burning, wounding people you do not agree with as a method of political discourse?

        Face it. You have no argument beyond “I do not like it.” Not one of you zealots is sane. Not one.

  • http://2wheels2lanes1camera.blogspot.com Ryderwriter

    I respectfully disagree. If the mother of even one pre-born baby is persuaded by what you term “squishy,” to not kill her baby, then it’s worth you being offended to save that one life.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      That might be a fair point if we could say that it works, but I think this probably alienates more people than it convinces.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      Give one to my child without my permission and see what happens.

      • two_amber_lamps

        Oh noe’s… you’ll go to a news blog and snivel? My oh my!

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Vanilla Ice Cream and Chocolate Sauce

          • two_amber_lamps

            I see, that’s how you intend to drown your anger/anxiety? Whatever floats your boat, Cochise.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Roast Beef and Chutney

          • two_amber_lamps

            Quite the babbler when you’re at a loss. Please get a rag, you’re drooling on the floor.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Maine Coon Cheese and Homemade Ketchup.

          • two_amber_lamps

            What did you call me? A Coon?

            Thanks BIGOT!

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Brie Cheese with Grapes

          • two_amber_lamps

            Intolerant chops with apple sauce.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Parrot.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Maine Blueberry Griddle Cakes.

            2 eggs
            2 cups buttermilk
            1 teaspoon soda
            2 cups flour
            2 teaspoons baking powder
            1 teaspoon salt
            2 teaspoons sugar
            4 tablespoons melted butter
            1 cup fresh blueberries

            Beat eggs and add buttermilk mixed with soda. Sift flour, baking powder, salt, and sugar into this mixture; then pour in melted butter. Fold blueberries into batter, and fry on a hot griddle. Serve with maple syrup and sausage and you have the perfect breakfast for a cold winter morning.

  • Tim Hines

    GREAT Editorial!!!

    • PK

      Yeah, i guess if you like misinformation and mindless assumptions.

      • two_amber_lamps

        Timbo Heiny seems to wallow in misinformation and mindless assumptions, then he is a leftist, this is to be expected.

        • Tim Hines

          “Seems to wallow in misinformation and mindless assumptions” This is certainly your opinion to voice… As far as displaying your rapier-sharp wit to dual with? That I guess has to be judged by the others on this blog to truly decide the victor ;-)

          • two_amber_lamps

            Oh look, your little pederast friend likes your post!

            Just don’t tell him you’re not a 10 years old boy… he might lose interest or feel betrayed.

          • Tim Hines

            So, I have enough experience around here to realize the futility of this question, but the debate geek inside me truly can’t help it….Do you have any specific examples of where I “wallowed in misinformation”? Because while I’ve shared my opinions pretty frequently and easily, it seems what few “facts” I’ve dispersed around here are pretty much irrefutable…But really, feel free to yawn, snore or hurl your classic brand of insults….It might be the easiest way to put this whole matter to rest….

          • two_amber_lamps

            Liberalism is a mental disorder… therefore it’s a given.

          • Tim Hines

            Fair enough! Have a good life, and if my suspicions are correct, you shouldn’t take it so personally….

          • two_amber_lamps

            Dear Liberal: Can You Stop Being A Weirdo?

            k’thanxbai!

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, I can, I promise….Unless you specifically attack me, or God forbid, ever feel compelled to debate facts, you stay on your side of this blog and I’ll stay on mine,,,,,Because while you call liberalism a “disease”, I know from past painful experience that WHATEVER it is that appears to be rotting at your core….There’s no cure for…..

          • two_amber_lamps

            WHATEVER it is that appears to be rotting at your core

            It’s called reality… you should try it sometime!

            Barbs aside, I shall give you some credit… you appear quite a bit more rational than your liberal brethren who inhabit this corner of the universe.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, thanks…Personally, Since I’m the only one fully aware of my voting record, I can say with confidence that I’m really not in any corner…I suspect that I’m a tad more liberal on some social issues, and while growing up, I was in a family that had to receive help from the government for a month or two….where my mom ended up in her life while having to shamefully endure it, compared to what the outcome for us without it would most likely have been, seems to have instilled a few ounces of compassion in me from a pretty early age, and….I won’t apologize for that….

          • Tim Hines

            And, sorry if this is over the line… Does this admission mean that I’ve maintained a “shred of dignity” Even though I didn’t heed your first warning to “leave now?” ;-)

          • two_amber_lamps

            Given that few of us know one another outside this forum, I suppose you’re the sole determiner of that fact.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, I may have some unfounded suspicions about the first half of your statement, but I’ll take the second half for what it appears to be, be grateful, and move on…..

          • 7point62

            At times, he can..
            Once in a rare while, so can gurgle.

          • 7point62

            There is that leftist arrogance we all love from all ya all libs….
            devil calls it “vanity” and it is one of the
            “deadly sins”.

            Pride goeth before the fall.
            and is led by vanity and a sense of
            self righteous intellect.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, I can assure you that in my mind at least, my rule to “meet or exceed the level of civility offered you” remains intact….to help explain the above response, maybe think of it as the verbal equivalent to a “stand your ground” law…

          • 7point62

            That is the trouble with folks who don’t have the Spirit…

            It is all “cerebral” with intellect and false human knowledge/understanding,
            when Christ speaks “Wisdom” to the heart of mankind.

            Psalm 119:55-60
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            55 I remember Your name in the night, O Lord,
            And I keep Your law.
            56 This has become mine,
            Because I kept Your precepts.
            57 You are my portion, O Lord;
            I have said that I would keep Your words.

            58 I entreated Your favor with my whole heart;
            Be merciful to me according to Your word.

            59 I thought about my ways,
            And turned my feet to Your testimonies.
            60 I made haste, and did not delay
            To keep Your commandments.

          • Tim Hines

            And Honestly? I’m glad it works for you… I hope you can understand I have to do what works for me, as well…

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am sorry that facts have a liberal bias. Must be tough on you.

          • 7point62

            I am sorry you liberals are blinded by satanic Iluminati “secular false enlightenment”
            taken as truth.
            The Bible calls it foolishness to God,
            and a way that seems right unto a man,
            but leads to death and that death eternal.
            Deception used from the very beginning:
            Here; eat this apple and become just like God, kind of grand design deceptions.
            (root cause analysis applied)

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am not a liberal. My love affair with God is private. Two is company. Three’s a crowd.

          • 7point62

            Your new age nirvana
            will only get ya closer to the fire…
            Hold your crystal close and achieve
            the flow of positive energy, now hear.

            Hebrews 12:1-3
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            The Race of Faith

            1 Therefore we also,
            since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
            and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

            2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

            3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself,
            lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I guess I was not clear. You are not my teacher. Do not Jesus at me. It is a waste of your time. I think you are nuts.

          • 7point62

            Salvation is not religion or spirituality.
            It is a personal relationship to the Living Jesus….
            I think you “spiritual folks” are nuts.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Do not Jesus at me.

          • 7point62

            It is the Name Jesus that “every knee will bow to”.
            Jesus is the Name above all Names that is Holy and True….By His Command creation obeys.
            JESUS….JESUS….JESUS
            Drives your little g demon god mad, huh…

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nah. Makes me think you are a lot crazier than I initially thought you were.

          • 7point62

            If you say so dumpling…Its secular gospel.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Nirvana is not New Age. It is an ancient Buddhist/Hindu concept. Do not preach religion if you do not know anything about religion. It makes you look ignorant and a little crazy.

          • 7point62

            It is pagan anti christ.
            Period.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            And I should be concerned about that because . . . ?

          • 7point62

            Because even the false enlightened don’t have to go to hell if they ask for Christ to b e their Savior.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            God loves me absolutely. Everybody goes to heaven.

          • PK

            Do you call your god Ra? Horus? Azazel? Moloch? Baal? Lake of Fire mean anything to you?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Sh’ma Yis’ra’eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
            Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.
            Barukh sheim k’vod malkhuto l’olam va’ed.
            Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.

          • 7point62

            That is a deception stemming from “universalism”.
            (All spirituality under the anti christ’s control)
            A global one world, new world order form of spiritualism.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are not my teacher. I do not care what you think.

          • 7point62

            Do you even care what “your teacher” thinks?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Why do you ask?

          • 7point62

            Because your knowledge comes from the devil so do you even care what satan thinks?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Now that makes no sense at all. Are drinking and posting?

          • 7point62

            True ignorance is when folks who think religion and
            Salvation are the same thing.
            Secular enlightenment is not Salvation.
            buddhists were and are pagen anti Christ.
            Nirvana that….

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You are not my teacher. My relationship with God is private. Two is company. Three’s a crowd.

          • 7point62

            Your little g god is false.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Your little d dick smells like rotten mushrooms.

          • 7point62

            And dumpling?
            You know this how.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am mirroring you. It is fun.

          • Tim Hines

            And Rob…. While we’re on the subject….Is THIS the best message you would want to frame? Or is it all about “proliferating clicks?”

          • ellinas1

            Dear neocon: Can You Stop Being A Weirdo?

          • two_amber_lamps

            Dear Ellinasty: Can You Stop Being A Pederast?

            (of course you can’t!)

          • ellinas1

            “Science, religion and pederasty peacefully coexist within me.
            two_amber_lamps on 06/10/2013

          • ellinas1

            Listening to Michael Savage is a mental disorder… therefore it’s a given.

          • two_amber_lamps

            So according to your own words, listening to Michael Savage is a mental disorder makes the previous statement (liberalism is a mental disorder) true.

            Since I don’t listen to Savage, I’ll concur with your statement… matter of fact since you must think that savage is the only one ever to use that phrase, you must listen to him as well.

            Ergo, you’re a mentally disordered pederast 2x over…. but then I do repeat myself!

            Brhahahahhahahahahahaaaa!

          • ellinas1

            Listening to Michael Savage is a mental disorder… therefore it’s a given.

          • 7point62

            Deceptive ideologies that cause liberal
            brain farts to stink up the whole universe, huh.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Jesus was crazy? Do tell?

          • ellinas1

            Oh look, your skinhead/neonazi friend Lenard likes your post!
            Just don’t tell him your IQ is 44… he might lose interest or feel betrayed.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Sez the mentally disordered pederast (2x over may I reiterate)! A mentally deranged pederast should be the last one to cast stones.

            Your pathetic attempt at parody is duly noted. :)

          • ellinas1

            Is that the best you can do darling?

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          Timbo Heiny? This is what passes for argument here? Lord have mercy on us.

  • Flyby_Knight

    Couldn’t agree more, Rob. Great piece.

  • NDRL

    You seem to forget that they are handed out with a card. The card tells you that the model is of a child with a gestational age of 12 weeks. That same card as describes fetal development facts up to that point. The handing out of these fetal models is an educational tool that brings up the humanity of an unborn child.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      I can’t imagine it is effective. It came off as bizarre to me, and I’m very sympathetic to the pro-life cause.

      • NDRL

        We have had tons of people commenting and asking, “is this how big you really are at twelve weeks?” When you couple that with being able to explain some fetal development facts to them at that time, you get many people with an astonished look on their face, because they didn’t know that there is a real human baby at such an early age. I would say that the fetal model has been a great educational tool for us.

        • SusanBeehler

          I would agree. I have actually used them, when advocating against abortion to individuals contemplating abortion. I know two babies today whose moms were persuaded to realize it was a baby inside them, not an “alien”.

          • two_amber_lamps

            I’m surprised you can find any time away from your nonsensical frothing rabid anti-2nd Amendment rights screeds to bother to take the time to address other issues.

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          If you thin it’s working, great. I think you know I support your cause, but it struck me as tone deaf.

      • exsanguine

        It seems bizarre to you, Rob, because you are a squish on the issue of murder on demand.

    • Flyby_Knight

      And the point of handing it to Rob’s five-year-old daughter would be what, exactly?

      • CLE

        um kids like to get things at the parade. they feel very left out when something is handed to the parents and not them. How many little kids got it and said “Look what I got mommy & daddy!”

        • Flyby_Knight

          I don’t know how many. How many kids were introduced to the topic of abortion before their parents were ready because of it?

          • CLE

            who says parents have to address abortion before they are “ready?” oh how about…”that’s what a baby looks like when it’s growing in a mommys tummy” ….no other explanation needed :)
            more usual liberal bs…being they are ready for sex education for kindergarteners and they are the one that have toddlers out there carrying abortion signs…BUT oh yeah model of an unborn baby is so creepy and infringing on their parenting rights!
            .

          • petrakeena

            It’s not their role to teach our children anything. This group over stepped and should apologize. Once children reach the age of 18 parental consent is no longer needed…but until then…they are our kids and this group doesn’t have the right to push their agenda on them.

          • 7point62

            Hello.

            I hate to tell ya about this but your wrong.

            Parents have no legal guardianship of their children unless they petition the state for it.

            the federal or states both have custody and
            has ownership of all its citizens under this central planning soviet corperate structure we are now under….

            Do some research on it.

            The libs have handed communist ownership over to the federal government comrade citizen.

            And we will end up?

            Good global citizens to the anti Christ and his agendas.

          • petrakeena

            No. I don’t want to do some research. You do enough for both of us. If I’m wrong you’ll let me know.

          • 7point62

            OK
            But we have been government owned property for many decades already.
            Take care.

          • petrakeena

            Well you to….once again you opened my eyes a little more.

          • Neiman

            Apologize for what? Trying to save the lives of tens of millions of more babies headed for our national abortuary gulags to be slaughtered? These people are trying to keep children alive and if if that offends anyone – too damn bad!

          • petrakeena

            I get that and if the child was a teenager I wouldn’t be so put off by this. The child in this case is only five years old. That is way too young to start a conversation about sex…IMO.

          • Neiman

            I started to agree with you, I typed many words that would offer some balance, some recognition of the ages of the children, I can truly, honestly see your point; but, then I think about all the uproar over this and how that uproar helps get the message out to many more people that it is these very children getting the dolls that these people love, that they want to save more of them to enjoy the gift of life and that it is a child in the womb, a human being, that is being given the death penalty without committing any sins at all, let alone a capital crime and who had no one to defend them.

            So, disagree with their methods or their sensitivity to certain issues if that is your desire, but please also think of this – they are offering those children yet to die in some damnable abortuary a defense, maybe not an eloquent defense, but an heartfelt an appeal for mercy that no one else is doing. It is easy to criticize this people in action, when we are missing in action, it is easy to find fault; but at least they went out and were pleading for the most defenseless, the most vulnerable among us and to me that makes them heroes.

          • petrakeena

            I’m totally against abortion and find your passion against it to be heartfelt. I guess I’m just old fashioned. But today’s kids grow up so fast and get involved with sex at an earlier age. What a shame…

          • Neiman

            Yes, it is a shame, a terrible shame that we did not offer them innocent childhoods.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            The only problem is that a 12 week fetus does not look like that.

  • Mike Nagel

    Pro-life groups are just terrible at messaging and issue framing. That might explain why anti-abortion measures do so poorly on the ballot in conservative states like South Dakota and Mississippi. This is just one example. Others include denying that there are any cases where abortion is necessary to save a mother’s life (the public trusts doctors more than politicians on that issue), the infamous Todd Akin comment and subsequent efforts to downplay it, doing little to resist attempts to portray abortion as an exclusively religious issue.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Pro-life groups are just terrible at messaging and issue framing.

      I agree.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        I also agree.

  • sue

    This was a parade to kick off the start to the fair. NOT a pro choice rally. Time and place. It should not have been done! This was creepy. If any organization has an agenda they may opt for a booth and I may opt to visit it or walk by.

  • CLE

    “Just a creepy, squishy lump of skin-colored rubber.

    We threw it a way, and we noticed a lot of the weird little creepies littering the garbage bins.” WTH man?!?!?! seeing models of unborn human babies should never be described as creepy! You just said exactly what the Left wants everyone to think they are! so much for being prolife.
    Yeah I can see totally where that is as offensive as to national TV personalities wearing tampon earrings and Pro-aborts threatening to throw used tampons at Legislatures and of course the very classy, toddlers carrying abortion signs & “Jesus isn’t as dick, keep him out of my vagina”….but a model of a human baby is creepy?!?!!?

  • clv

    I think they are great. Most people are told that a 12 week old baby is a “blob of tissue.” This shows that a blob it is not. It also came with a card that showed key developmental points. If showing this model can save a few lives, then it is so worth making a few people think they are “creepy” as you would say. It is a very accurate model and looks just like a 12 week pre-born baby. They are beautiful lives with little beating hearts!

  • Flyby_Knight

    Unfortunately, Rob, I’m afraid most of the commenters who have showed up here to react are continuing to prove your point. There’s a real lack of self-awareness in the pro-life movement.

    • clv

      What lack is that? I don’t see any lack of self-awareness in any pro-life comments? I think I see lack of knowledge among the pro-choice, which is what the models were supposed to do, give knowledge to those that think an abortion is a lump of tissue at 12 weeks.

      • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

        I think the comments attacking me, someone who is very pro-life, because I think the little rubber babies are weird prove FlyBy’s point.

      • Flyby_Knight

        Here’s what I’m talking about: Rob says the little rubber babies are weird, and I agree. A bunch of pro-life people (whom Rob agrees with) show up and defend the tactic, then call Rob a “squish” on the abortion issue.

        The implication is “well, that’s what a baby looks like, so that tactic is both correct and effective.” That’s not true. The people you’re trying to win over to your side of the argument are the people who are soft on the issue from your perspective. Many of them think it’s weird to hand out tiny rubber babies, and you aren’t going to win them over by doing so.

        That’s the lack of self-awareness I’m talking about.

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          Well said.

        • CLE

          So why are they putting pictures of lung disease on cigarette packages? why do they use educational models of many many body parts to educate kids about different parts of the body? (what if a they had been handing out models of the human heart along with an educational website about heart disease, would that have been creepy?) what about those skeletons hanging in every science classroom across the country? How about the food pyramid of healthy foods? I just don’t understand why this one educational tool is any different than the many thousands of educational tools we use everyday? If you are prolife and believe in rights for the unborn I personally don’t get why are you so offended. I don’t find them creepy because I don’t find unborn babies creepy. By the way, 12 weeks is the gestational age at which most abortions are performed, hence the need to get out the fact that babies no longer look like just a random clump of cells, they actually look like human beings…that is called education!

          • petrakeena

            His daughter is five years old. Does that sink into your head at all?

          • Neiman

            They are fighting to save the lives of tens of millions of children in the womb that will be slaughtered, who did not have his child’s chance at life because America operates a national abortuary.

          • petrakeena

            A five year old girl isn’t thinking about having sex with boys. Elementary age children shouldn’t be subjected to this dialogue.

          • Neiman

            I agree times have changed, in my youth very little of what children are exposed to daily in our schools, was ever brought to us. Yet, when I know that over 55+ million helpless, innocent children have been murdered without just cause, forgive me but I cannot get very upset that a child blessed with life might have to grow up a little faster and learn of unpleasant things.

          • petrakeena

            I was going to say that the number is too high but then I thought…what number would be acceptable? I just can’t get over how careless some couples are about getting pregnant.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Have you stopped to think for a moment that some women may be more fertile than you?

          • petrakeena

            As a matter of fact … yes I have…which is why they should be even more careful about using birth control.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Does the phrase “failure rate with perfect use” have any meaning for you?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            We have laws governing the death and disposal of corpses. Where are the bodies and the death certificates of these 55 million dead children?

          • Neiman

            Since when do murderers care about the niceties of the law?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I do not understand your point. What murderers? Are you saying that there are no laws about the disposal of corpses and/or medical waste? Are you saying that professionals in the healthcare field are murderers? Are you saying that professionals in the healthcare field do not follow public health law? Please be specific. I find your post dramatic but not very intelligent.

          • Neiman

            The deliberate act to terminate the life of any human being not convicted of a capital crime or in war, in this case of babies that are helpless and innocent of wrongdoing – it is cold blooded first degree murder. Anyone playing any role in knowingly making those murders possible, even if just voting for those that support that damnable self-serving euphemism – “choice,” are guilty as being accessories to everyone of those murders.

            Of course you will attack me and anyone, like these mostly Christian people seeking to make people face the fact these babies are human beings, by casting doubts on our intelligence; but, those attacks do not, will not ever change the fact that abortion is murder in a moral sense, in a spiritual sense and before God’s Court (“Thou shalt not kill (do murder),” no matter what the Law of man may say today.

            You may draw all the inferences from my words that please you.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Neiman: The deliberate act to terminate the life of any human being not convicted of a capital crime or in war, in this case of babies that are helpless and innocent of wrongdoing – it is cold blooded first degree murder.

            Incorrect. There are a number of situations in which the deliberate termination of a human life is acceptable and/or not murder: defense of self or others, police work, assisted suicide, harvesting of organs, abortion (especially in in vitro fertilization) and of course, those which you cited: execution and war.

          • Neiman

            There are always exceptions to everything, a couple of those your mentioned, self-defense, police actions, depending on the circumstances would often be considered exceptions; but like all liberal,s you really want to get away from the subject by these side tracking points. The subject is murdering babies in the tens of millions.

            Assisted suicide is still murder, suicide is self murder, they are both murder and mortal sins. Ending a life via active euthanasia is still murder, even to harvest organs. Passive euthanasia, where there is no deliberate, conscious act to cause death is not murder.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Drama and hyperbole. I always hope for a serious discussion on this issue. And I almost always get insane and overdramatic zealots like you. It is too bad malignant scrupulosity is not painful except to others.

          • Neiman

            Drama: Because I choose to call things what they are, what decent human society, the Bible and people of faith have always called such things? I realize you will not like the word murder – no murderer wants their acts called murder, they have excuses and reasons for their heinous acts and they want to escape responsibility for them.

            Hyperbole: Show me any gross exaggerations in my words to you.

            Insane: By whose definition? Isn’t that a clinical diagnosis and by diagnosing that as my problem, are you not playing doctor?

            Zealot: So you consider it an act of fanaticism to defend helpless, innocent life and to serve the God that saved my soul?

            Malignant: Do you mean having a desire to harm others or to do evil, by wanting to save the lives of tens of millions of helpless, innocent babies? Is that desirous of evil or to harm others in your liberal world?

            Scrupulosity: So you consider it a flaw for having or showing a strict regard for what one considers right; principled?

            Isn’t it what you really mean, that you cannot tolerate people of faith exposing the child in the womb as being a human being and making people feel bad or guilty for killing their children? Wouldn’t you be much happier if all Christians kept their faith at home and agree with all your liberal views in public?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Stop pretending all religious folks and all Christians oppose abortion. That is an untruth.

          • Neiman

            I said nothing about religious people, I am anti-religion, it is only bondage; versus true Christianity which is Salvation, Life and Liberty in Christ.

            If one says they are a Christian and in the next breath they defend abortion, “Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.” James 1:8 They should heed, “James 4:8 “Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.”

            If they ever sincerely confessed their sins and by faith accepted Jesus as the Savior and Lord and yet can approve of the mass killings of helpless, innocent babies, they are at best Carnal minded: “”The carnal mind is enmity against God”—Romans 8:7. They are back slidden, have retreated from the faith and while they may be saved, they should expect no good thing from the Lord in this life. Chances are very high that these people are Christian in name only, they think because they were raised in a Christian home or a mostly Christian nation that they are Christian, but they are not if they love not these children.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Just another forced birther enjoying your fantasy of killing children. And imagining you appear sane, moral and friendly. So disappointing. I always hope for sane discussion and I so rarely get it.

          • Neiman

            It is not I that fantasize about killing children, I oppose abortion and all child killing. So, maybe it is you and your side that cannot satisfy their blood lust in other ways than by picking on the most vulnerable among us, like cowards killing children that cannot defend themselves.

            Sane, moral and friendly:
            I believe I am mentally sound; especially: able to anticipate and appraise the effect of mine and others actions rationally.

            I am while in the flesh, as capable of immoral acts as anyone else, the difference is when confronted by them, by the Spirit within, I agree with God they are immoral and therefore sinful and I most sincerely repent of having failed Him.

            Friendly: What is a friend? Do they lie to you or go along with you in your self deceptions: Or, is it as God says, “6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” Proverbs 27 So, if I believe that abortion is a mortal sin and all involved face Perdition’s Flames, whether you agree or not, am I not being the best of friends by making you aware of that fact and warning you of the consequences. On the other hand if another person you know also is aware/believes it is murder, but keeps silent rather than offend you, are they a friend?

            Our problem is that my being convinced abortion is a most grievous immoral stain on our nation and that God must surely punish any such nation, I must speak from my Christian faith only and that will always offend those that disagree and that ends conversations quite quickly.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Homo sapiens has three strategies for population (birth) control: contraception, abortion and infanticide. All three are practiced around the world, historically and currently. Those who restrict contraception and abortion make infanticide inevitable. You do not occupy the moral high ground.

          • Neiman

            The latter two are murder and cannot be defended, nor the blame put on anyone because they outlaw one of them and thus assert they were forced to do the other. If you excuse murder of children by any excuse, you do not occupy the moral high ground. “Thou shalt not kill (do murder)” and for all true Christians that end s the debate, thus saith the Lord. For non-Christians, they will suffer His wrath no matter what they do.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I excuse nothing. I point to reality. You seem incapable of dealing with facts and can only deal in polemics. That is the chief failing of your argument.

          • Neiman

            I haven’t read one fact from you yet, when does that start?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            It is a fact that your writing is florid and your sentences make me want to cry they are such a mess.

          • Neiman

            That is your opinion and it is not worth very much.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Back at you, WordyPants.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am a Christian. Stop pretending all Christians are opposed to abortion. That is an untruth.

          • Neiman

            To say one is a Christian, reminds me of a young white man in South Africa that came to the place wherein he realized that for most South Africans, to say one is Christian, was the same thing as saying one is white versus black, the latter which was a lesser form of human being and not Christian. Meaning that to say one is Christian here in America is mostly, with rare exception, is because the people were raised in a Christian home, that they are living in a mostly Christian confessing country or that they believe there is a God and that they were raised to believe that God is Jesus. But, that is not Christianity at all, it is a name, a label, without meaning.

            Flamemeister coined the term “practical atheists” for most so-called Christians in America, they say they are Christian, but talk and act like they are really atheists. A dear man Malcom Lee ran the Richmond Rescue Mission for many years, one day he told me that most people calling themselves Christians do not really believe in Jesus at all or they would not allow anything to keep them from witnessing to their family, friends, co-workers – anyone about the Gospel and of Jesus soon return, in hopes of saving their souls. See, they say they believe, but by not speaking of it, by not feeling any urgency, they betray themselves as being practical atheists.

            So, to say one is a Christian and approve of abortion when God says, “Thou shalt not kill (do murder),” is to oppose oneself, tp say one thing and act another way entirely. The same with homosexuality and gay marriage, how can a true Christian can read of Sodom and Gomorrah and of God’s anger at homosexuality in Romans One and then say they support homosexuality and gay marriage and that they are Christians, as those are completely opposing positions. Such a person is double minded, they oppose themselves and they should look at their hearts and ask God to show them if they really have faith, if they really believe in Him and His Word, or by the things they accept in the world, are they in reality only carnal Christians or not really Christians at all.

            I cannot say except in so many cases I see this opposition to Christ and His Word by people calling themselves Christian and can only say their testimony seem to betray them, by their words and beliefs I cannot see how they can call themselves Christians

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Are you drinking and posting?

          • Neiman

            Are you stupid and ugly?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Yes, if you like. You still write ridiculous sentences.

          • Neiman

            And your credentials to critique sentence structure are what exactly?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            How about I show the sentence that made me shudder?

          • Neiman

            You must be terribly bored and have an awful lot of time on your hands to do nothing; but, if it will make you feel better, go for it.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            No no. I will show you the shudder sentence if you want to see it. Nothing about reading that sentence again will make me feel better.

          • PK

            The only “Christians” i’ve encountered who support killing the unborn are Progressive Christians. They’re not Christians at all and don’t even believe Jesus was the Son of God or divine in any way, just merely a radical who railed against the establishment. Are you a Progressive “Christian”? Is Jesus God? Does the Bible contradict itself?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            What is an “unborn?” Is that kind of like “the undead?”

          • PK

            The unborn individual is no different than the same individual 10 minutes after it exits the whom. It has the same unique DNA and is completely dependent on its mother.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            An unborn fetus cannot be described as “individual.” A fetus becomes unattached and individual when it survives birth. Words have meaning.

          • PK

            Well my medical textbooks call the developing baby an individual throughout the gestation period, so you’re just picking your own meaning for words to fit your bias. Scientific terms such as fetus, or embryo, are merely descriptive terms describing the stage of development. All scientific terms are designed to be able to extract relevant information just from the word itself. Just because it’s called an embryo or a fetus at certain stages, doesn’t scientifically mean it’s not a baby or individual.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Is an “individual” attached to me by umbilical cord and sucking my blood?

          • 7point62

            Stick with your vibrator instead then if you hate babies.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I do not want you to make sexual remarks to me. I am not at all interested in you. You skeeve me.

          • 7point62

            But your baby is a blood sucker draining you.
            Maybe you should avoid human contact.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Do not misquote me. What a tacky way to argue. Ick.

          • 7point62

            Who’s arguing?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            ar·gue
            /ˈärgyo͞o/
            Verb
            Give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one’s view.
            Persuade someone to do or not to do (something) by giving reasons: “I tried to argue him out of it”.
            Synonyms
            dispute – debate – discuss – reason – contend – quarrel

          • 7point62

            So is that what you are doing?
            I am just giving you Scripture and facts.

            Psalm 119:90-93
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            90 Your faithfulness endures to all generations;
            You established the earth, and it abides.
            91 They continue this day according to Your ordinances,
            For all are Your servants.
            92 Unless Your law had been my delight,
            I would then have perished in my affliction.
            93 I will never forget Your precepts,
            For by them You have given me life.
            end quote
            Better than any progressive ideological “argument”.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            The thing you just posted to me is an argument for god and a thanksgiving. I am not a progressive.

          • 7point62

            It was you who mentioned my male organs.

          • PK

            Is a wood tick a part of you when it latches on and starts to bury itself into your flesh, sucking your blood? Or a leach? I wouldn’t consider them a part of your body. The developing child has different DNA than you, and technically can survive and develop outside the whom. As far as sucking your blood, the child has it’s own blood after a few weeks and doesn’t actually intake the mother’s blood, just extracts nutrients from it via the placenta, then through the cord. It’s no different than drinking breast milk, which also contains white blood cells to build up immunity. Life is truly amazing and begins at conception. The scientific literature is conclusive on those facts.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            The “whom?” When you have a fetus in your “whom,” you can decide what to do about it. And vice versa.

          • PK

            Thanks for catching that spelling error, but it’s not fair for you to deflect from the context of what i wrote because of one word being incorrectly spelled, especially when it was obvious what i meant. I will never have a baby in my “whom” since i’m a male, and i try not to consume estrogen-mimicking, gender bending chemicals. In North Dakota there’s only one choice and that’s life.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You do not even have any skin in the game, but you want to be in charge? Laughing at you. Never happen.

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/north-dakota-abortion-ban_n_3635386.html

          • PK

            Well actually it does take a male to create the new life too, and since it’s another individual that’s created, it should be granted all the same freedoms granted under the law. I would say the key law here would be Life, then there’s Liberty, etc. I’m not saying there aren’t legitimate reasons to terminate, but the mindset of

            “I will have hot monkey sex because I like it. I will use contraception.
            If I get pregnant, I will give birth or abort as I see fit.”

            is rather disgusting to me. Why don’t people just get married and have big families like the good old days? So, I don’t support abortion being used for eugenics and population control and i have a right to help decide what we do in this State. Do you honestly think a 40 year old court decision will override the 5th, 9th, 14th and most importantly the 10th Amendment, when it gets to the SCOTUS, when the defense will be that the fetus, is really a “person”, and has all the protections under the Bill of Rights and Constitution as well? There’s a lot more in there than just “goo”.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I am responding to your first sentence only. A fetus is not an individual obviously. A fetus acquires all the rights and duties of legal personhood when it survives birth.

          • PK

            Yeah, i guess we’ll see how the courts see it. Do you realize that other states, like the Republic of Texas, will be forced into the same court battle, and this will only end up with the overturning of Roe v Wade, allowing the States to decide what they do about abortion in their State? The States are pretty sick of the feds to begin with, and abortion is a serious enough issue to put the feds in their place. Science is on life’s side and just calling the child goo doesn’t change the data.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Science does not take sides. That is a seventh grade science fact. So far you have not argued science or fact. You seem incapable of doing such.

          • PK

            Likewise, all you have offered to this conversation is a bunch of semantics to fit your opinion. If people don’t like that abortion is banned in ND, they can move or go to another state that allows it, so take you fake civil rights crusade somewhere else. Do you agree with this eugenics practice also?
            http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.full
            The whole agenda behind abortion is to legalize and normalize murder, for population control measures run by the technocratic elite. It’s social engineering 101.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Abortion is not banned in ND.

          • PK

            It technically is, but the feds have unConstitutionally blocked one of the laws until the appeal, then the state will win, then it will be blocked again, then appealed, and so on, until the SC hears it and strikes down RvW. The best thing you people could do is just let us have our ban, because it’s not going to end well for your cause. There’s only one abortion clinic in ND and that’s in Fargo. People can just drive a couple miles across the river into bankrupt, communist MN and have one. It’s poor strategy to challenge the State of North Dakota, especially when we have billions of dollars in surpluses every year, so we can definitely be able to cover the legal battle, and the new laws were passed with the help from a bunch of liberals also, but i guess these kinds of people think chanting “hail Satan” is a good statement for the pro-choice movement. So do you think it’s also moral to terminate infants and even toddlers up to age 3, as is proposed by multiple medical ethics journals?

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            I think you have creepy fantasies about killing children.

          • PK

            That’s a pretty weak rebuttal. I’m not the author of the pier reviewed articles, nor did i publish them. Why can’t you answer the simple question? Should we allow parents to kill their babies? It was considered moral in many other societies throughout history. So was sacrificing children to Moloch, or whatever other variation of false pagan gods they were in to.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            You first. What if your child had Tay-Sachs?

          • PK

            Wow, you couldn’t find a better disease? How could anyone kill a baby because it will die young? That’s as selfish as one can get, because the decision is based solely on the pain it will bring the parents. Abortion is similar, to avoid the pains of growing up and taking responsibility for your actions, but is actually worse because the reasons for abortion are all a lie. God provides for those who seek His help.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            That is your answer. Wow. What a sad rotten little turnip you are.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            Tay-Sachs children begin dying at birth. Some experience pain when touched until paralysis at the end. Their pain increases as they grow older. They cannot be held and comforted because touch is agonizing to them. Try to take that in. Your child is crying and in constant pain and your attempts to comfort the child create only more pain. Do the concepts of mercy and triage have any meaning in your world?

          • PK

            When the disease progresses to that point, there are methods to not allow the child to suffer, like inducing coma if medication doesn’t work anymore. But i guess it’s more merciful to kill the baby, preferable before birth i’m sure, rather than allowing it to live as long as it can in your world. You’re the one who’s sad and morally rotten, not me. First you accuse me of having creepy fantasies about killing children, now i’m bad because i don’t think it’s moral to kill children for any reason. I think you need to ask the Lord for some wisdom and discernment.

          • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

            INDIANAPOLIS — A judge on Tuesday made permanent her order barring Indiana from denying Medicaid funds to Planned Parenthood clinics, ending the state’s two-year legal fight.

            U.S. District Judge Tanya Walton Pratt issued his permanent injunction after the U.S. Supreme Court in May refused to hear Indiana’s appeal in the case. Days later, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued an administrative ruling siding with Planned Parenthood.

            Indiana had sought to prevent Medicaid enrollees from accessing health care at clinics operated by Planned Parenthood of Indiana and Kentucky because the organization provides abortions.

            Planned Parenthood, represented by the American Civil Liberties Union, had argued that a 2011 Indiana law targeting the organization should be blocked because it probably conflicted with a federal Medicaid statute that protects patients’ rights to make their own decisions about health care providers.

  • JoeMN

    “Just a creepy, squishy lump of skin-colored rubber.
    _______
    As apposed to the practice of abortion ?

    To be fair, they do seem rather odd, but perhaps that is the whole point.

    That even though they ended up in the garbage, they in fact already had served their purpose

    To make you stop and think.

    • yy4u2

      It may have served two purposes. One for those in attendance and one for those that missed it only to see numerous ‘aborted’ babies in the trash…where they ultimately end up.

      • 7point62

        That was what I thought earlier today when I read thru this post.
        Maybe that is the intent…Expendable babies in a throw away society.

  • Mark 2112

    lets see….be ‘weird’ or be a murderer. hmmm, i wonder.

    • Mark 2112

      yes! vote me down to try and validate your feelings and justify your murder.

  • LastBestHope

    On her MSNBC show Sunday morning,Melissa Harris-Perry brought attention to Texas’ recently-passed abortion regulations—and the burnt orange-clad demonstrators who had fought their passage—in her own way: with a pair of homemade tampon earrings.

    “My producer Lorena made for me last week some tampon earrings,” Harris-Perry said as she put on the jewelry. “The Texas state legislature said that you couldn’t bring tampons in, when these women were going to, in fact, stand up for their own reproductive rights.”

    Sunday morning “news” from MSNBC

    • 7point62

      But libs have priorities and cause advocacy LBH.
      They are secular noble saints for the agendas/causes they support
      no matter how false the morality.

      • LastBestHope

        this vile woman is on a major cable news show that reaches millions of homes

        hopefully, they all had their tv’s turned off

  • Tim Hines

    So random thought of the morning….I’ve been called out, mocked, and maybe worse behind my back for sharing my opinion that we have to try to start having a saner way to discuss politics in this country….free from PR/PACS and/or partisanship… I can pretty much guarantee that I am NOT Rob’s favorite “patron” of this site these days, but here we are, with the possible exception of one “new” face to this site…. And we actually seem to really agree about something….Just a “stopped clock is right twice a day moment”? I really don’t know…. Maybe a second cup of coffee will help figure it out ;-)

  • PK

    “You’re doing more harm than good.” Rob Port.

    What a completely arrogant and flat out stupid comment and post. Yeah, showing exactly what a baby looks like at 12 weeks to humanize it, is somehow weird and creepy. Please Rob, will you send out a curriculum to all the Pro-Life groups so they can all get it right? What did it say on the card? How can you write something like this and completely neglect to mention what was written on the accompanying literature?

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      If you think that lump of squishy rubber is what a child looks like at 12 weeks, you need to go back to health class.

      By the way, the point is to convince people, and judging by my reaction and those of others (anecdotes, I admit, but still) there wasn’t much convincing going on.

      Call me all the names you want, but this sort of thing isn’t helping the pro-life movement.

      • PK

        http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-12-weeks

        It’s pretty close, the point was to humanize the fetus.

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          If that’s close, you need glasses.

          But nothing humanizes a baby like turning into a squish lump of rubber, I suppose.

          Maybe you had to have it in your hand to get the full effect.

          • PK

            You are such an arrogant know it all. It’s an affordably made, 3-D model that shows the approximate size and proportions with the discernibly human features of a fetus at 12 weeks. Showing how human-like the fetus is at just 12 weeks is what humanizes it genius.

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            I don’t think I’m being arrogant by disagreeing with you. Maybe the conceit is yours in thinking my disagreement with you is some sort of a character flaw.

            But no, it’s not an accurate model. It’s a creepy little hunk of rubber, and attacking me (someone who is staunchly pro-life remember) isn’t going to change that.

          • PK

            I think the model is adequate to get the point across. I called you arrogant for knit-picking people trying to raise awareness and saying it’s nothing like what a 12 week old fetus looks like. I can see this model’s “finger is on the trigger”, so i think i’ll just leave it at that.

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            I think the model isn’t getting any points across. It’s alienating, and it’s counter-productive.

            But there’s no arguing with the sort of genius who thinks Alex Jones speaks gospel.

          • PK

            Um ok. I’ve never said Jones speaks gospel or that i agree with everything he says. I’ve said he doesn’t deserve the type of mindless criticism he gets from jealous people like you. You said he hurt the 2nd Amendment argument when he blew up at Piers Morgan. He actually made people realize it’s ok to get angry about our rights being attacked because some nut killed some kids. But no, he “hurt the cause” according to you. Everyone on Morgan’s show after that acted a lot like Jones, being authoritative and able to get there argument across, winning the debate. The pro-2nd Amendment people on before Jones let Morgan speak over them and couldn’t get their point across because they didn’t want to be labelled “the crazy guy yelling on TV”. Only an arrogant, jealous fool doesn’t give Jones some credit when it’s deserved. Drudge has a link to his site today, and most days, but Drudge must be bad and crazy too. Get over your stupid issue with Jones already or at least stop judging me and what i say by association, because i’ve defended Jones from your unfair criticism. By the way, you’re the one who’s impossible to argue with. That guy’s finger wasn’t on the stinking trigger and everyone else on here agreed, but you wouldn’t concede the obvious because that would mean admitting you were wrong. That’s a sad mindset to have. You’ll never learn anything if you always think you’re right. People like you defended the Patriot Act and dismissed the sections that say the American people can be targeted too. Guess who was yelling and screaming about the abuses that would happen before the bill was even passed in 2001, while being attacked as a nutcase at the same time? But Alex Jones is never right. Get real man. You probably would have said Paul Revere was a crackpot for warning about the British coming to take weapons if you lived during that time. Why does Judge Napolitano, G Edward Griffin, the Paul’s and other Congressmen, Paul Craig Roberts, Wayne Madsen, Micheal Savage and countless other mainstream media contributors, veterans, etc. go on his show and agree with much of what he says? Lets not forget Dan Bongino, who just resigned from the Secret Service to run for the Senate because he believes we’re going into real tyranny if things aren’t changed soon. Are all these well respected people just plain crazy? Or does Jones pay them off? I just don’t understand how someone can utterly hate and slander someone like you do to Jones, especially when your political views are probably 90%, or more, in-line with his from what i’ve observed. Why don’t you go watch some more Glen Beck to reinforce your bias against Jones? Do you know he copied his entire radio/TV show platform from Jones, even down to selling the same products? He just used the tens of millions of dollars he made at Fox, lying to the American people about things like the Patriot Act, wars and the bailouts, to make it higher quality than Jones’ real grassroots media outfit. There are plenty of things you can criticize Jones for, just like with anyone, but you go to an entirely extreme and illogical level of slander and dismissal. Have you ever thought that you’re as crazy as you think Jones is?

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            I actually admit that I’m wrong when I’m wrong. But I wasn’t wrong about the trigger, and it seems bizarre (though perhaps in character for an Alex Jones fan) for you to be obsessing about that months later.

            And I’m not Jealous of Jones. I’m satisfied with my success. My criticism of him is based on entirely accurate observations of his work product.

          • PK

            There you go again projecting Alex Jones onto me. You are absolutely wrong about the trigger thing. I’m obsessing over it because i know for a 100% fact his finger was far in front of the trigger and i use it to demonstrate how egotistical and bullheaded you are. It’s so obvious that it wasn’t on the trigger and you amazingly won’t admit it, even though nobody agreed with you. Even JoeMn, who wrongly pointed it out to you if i remember right, agreed with me after i explained the problems with that assumption. Look at a picture of any shotgun, then look at where his finger is. It’s crazy to keep insisting you’re right, when you’re so obviously, utterly, WRONG. You’ve forced me into obsessing over this, because it’s so incredible you keep saying you’re right, even months later. You should do a SAB poll and see what the consensus is. I wonder who just voted me down on this 3 week old thread, since you never vote people down. I’m starting to think you’re actually delusional, rather than bullheaded. I guess anyone who rejects the obvious intelligence behind the order built into the universe and life has to be delusional. I’ll pray that you receive some wisdom. Please address the things i say directly and stop unfairly projecting your bias onto me for full spectrum dismissal. I’m not that bad of a guy.

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            I’m not projecting anything onto you. You’re defending Alex Jones, a certifiable crackpot, and it’s perfectly reasonable for me to use that as a basis for judging you.

          • PK

            So Judge Napolitano should be judged negatively, regardless of his views, just because he’s been on Jones’ show? Is Ron Paul(perfect Constitutional voting record) going on his show the reason you didn’t support him? G Edward Griffin, Paul Craig Roberts, etc, all should be judged negatively based on one reason, and that’s appearing on the Alex Jones Show? You have a mental disorder if you think that. I defend Alex Jones when he’s right. I defend you when you’re right. He was right about the Patriot Act, the 2nd Amendment and all the bullets the government is securing, but that doesn’t matter with your twisted logic. You know all those bullets? Jones broke the story at 1.2 billion, then again at 1.6, then by 2 billion the mainstream media had to admit it wasn’t a conspiracy theory and legislation was introduced to stop the executive from buying anymore. You even ripped off Jones’ story and didn’t give him any credit for breaking it months before. Remember the MIAC and DHS Rightwing extremism reports? Those were leaked by people in the government to Alex Jones and he broke them. He deserves credit when it’s due and you’re the last person who should be calling someone a certifiable crackpot. Is the story on Drudge today made up crackpot lies too? You would write about it for weeks of you ever made it on Drudge, and would probably put it in your bio. I actually look at everything that’s out there, including your favorite theBlaze, who actually steals other people’s work word for word and never gives the credit. Why don’t you ever try addressing some of the things I say? I’m not Alex Jones. I’m a real person who lives in ND and it would be nice to be treated like a human being.

          • PK

            Sorry, i don’t want you to be confused of which story i was asking about, since i’ve noticed another infowars story just got posted on Drudge. I was referring to the story that was posted this morning. It’s funny how 2 of the 3 stories at the top on Drudge right now are infowars articles. That Drudge, now he must not be legitimate like Big Sis once said to a Congressman, which he replied he thought he was credible. Why would Drudge post infowars articles when they’re not even exclusives? There are dozens of other news articles reporting the same thing to pick from. Maybe Drudge just likes the historical context the writers put the news in. Anyway, i just thought it was fitting to see an infowars article top left and top right on Drudge.

    • Flyby_Knight

      Paging clv… Here’s another great example of a lack of self-awareness.

  • Marcus

    Wow…Rob!

    Handing your five year old a politically charged item that should be reserved for sex education class is a little over the top.

    As a parent, there is a time and place for everything.

    IMPOSING this issue on children in the way that it appears is not only indecent…, it’s immoral.

    I don’t have a problem with pro-lifers having a booth and handing out literature to those that choose to stop by, however, handing out adult rated material to a five year old is just plain wrong.

    You, as a parent, have the right to breach that subject with your children when you choose or when they ask. Not as a result of a political agenda and tactless propaganda maneuver.

    • Neiman

      Yes, it sure is wrong for these crazy Pro-Life people to call murder – murder, yes it is surely wrong to make the people come face to face with the vile national baby holocaust that is being carried out in their name and with their money. Yes, it is wrong, surely to point to Planned Parenthood Gulags, their abortuary chambers, where they stab babies in the back of the head and toss them in the garbage.<- Sarcasm intended.

      You join millions of atheists and many more millions of practical atheists that are demanding Christians shut up outside their churches, I'll bet you even consider teaching children about Jesus in the home is a form of child abuse. They surely should not be exposed to adult rated materials such as sin, eternity, hell and heaven, right?

      I'll bet you would have thought it immoral to expose adults and children in Germany with the Concentration Camps and the Final Solution, right? I mean that is adult material about sending those Jews to the gas chambers, right? If you would have supported the Germans in the public square, in every venue, screaming against the Holocaust, then what is the difference between that and our national baby holocaust?

      Oh, what gives you the right to set standards of decency and morality on a people you hate?

      • Marcus

        You are so “obsessed” with this issues, you’ve lost your perspective and are lashing out in a feeble attempt to posture your position.

        Throwing around hyperbole to goad a response to your un-enlightened assumptions does NOT make things so…

        My position is simple: “”And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. – Matthew 6:5

        I’ve watched both sides of the abortion issue bastardize their core values in the pursuit of public spectacle.

        It is very dis-heartening to listen to hypocrites…

        • Neiman

          In the first place, you are totally wrong about the passage you quoted. Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, the Apostles and a myriad of Christian martyrs all prayed in public. Your narrow and wholly wrong interpretation would silence all public prayer.

          Next, handing out literature and a rubberized representation of a baby in the womb does not equal public prayer, which you apparently hate.

          You have not indicated what core values Pro-Life people have bastardized, so that is so much emotional nonsense on your part. Maybe the hypocrite is you, you offer some false reading of Scripture which is false on its face, in pretense of some Christian feelings or affiliation; while you condemn these people for defending helpless, innocent children that are being slaughtered which God in the Ten Commandments hates, you know “Thou shalt not kill (do murder).”

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            I cannot help that you missed the point completely.

            However, your continued hyperbole in desperation suggests that you’ve opened your mouth to remove all doubt.

          • Neiman

            I cannot help it because you are unable to make a point and your words meant contempt for Pro-Life people, because they do not sit quietly in the corner and keep their mouths shut.

            I cannot help it if you are overwhelmed by rational debate and get your feelings hurt when anyone dares oppose you.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Your suggestion of “rational debate” is about as irrational as an islamic extremist.

            Making wild assumptions to postulate an irrational “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” philosophy does not illustrate an individual capable of the rational thought you suggest.

            However, calling me an atheist, making assumptions my position on Jesus, the holocaust or how I view the holocaust or limiting the commandments to only 10 (there are actually 613) suggests an individual listening to demons that are whispering a hate.., not love in their ear.

            If you believe in “divine intervention” then take this exchange for what it is…, not what you assume it to be.

            Either way, I wish you well.

          • Neiman

            Balderdash. Complete and utter nonsense!

            You are a liar for sure, I never herein called you an atheist, I simply implied you are a fellow traveler on this issue.

            I got under your skin because I demonstrated that as you oppose those that oppose abortion and want them silenced, you are directly comparable to Germans that would not tolerate any defense of the Jews.

            There are not 613 Commandments for God, there are only Ten, which cover most Jewish laws.

            It is disingenuous to attack Pro-Life people for not meeting your secular standards of Christianity and acting out in rage because I oppose you.

          • Marcus

            Once again, you bear false witness.

          • Neiman

            You do not even know what bearing false witness means. Go to a Holy Spirit filled, Bible believing Christian and learn what you do not know about God.

          • Marcus

            There is nothing in your actions that suggests you practice what you preach.

            You are a narcissist POSING as a self proclaimed christian, which is evident in the hate and discord you project against others.

          • Neiman

            So, I see you refused to find out what that passage means and discover that your were in error.

            Now you are a psychiatrist (Narcissism) or are your practicing medicine without a license, you know, a charlatan? You do not even understand how one comes to Christ, it is never in self love or because one feels good about themselves, it is as a self hating sinner deserving of hell and seeking mercy (grace) that we might escape the pains of hell and find eternal life with Christ. Christians may be a lot of things, but self-love, narcissism not one of them.

            As you have never confessed here- Jesus as being your only Savior and the absolute Lord of your life, that we might know the spirit within you, you will forgive me I am sure for giving no credence to your comments about my not practicing what I preach, right?

            Jesus said that when His children opposed sin and stood for the Gospel, while it was not their fault, those very beliefs would produce hate by those that oppose Christ, setting even members of the same family against each other, dividing them and creating enmity.

          • Marcus

            Neiman Quote: “Christians may be a lot of things, but self-love, narcissism not one of them.”

            Then why do the bulk of your replies contain an egotistical preoccupation with “Neiman’s” personal preferences, judgments against others, aspirations of being perceived as pious, defining “who does” and “who doesn’t” meet “Neiman’s” version of christianity?

            You sir, behave in a narcissistic manner out of pride and wrath, placing you at the center of your universe, which is so far removed from the kingdom of God that you are the least qualified to to test peoples faith and spirit.

            Again, how are you helping the pro-life cause by fettering it with your particular brand of hate and judgement slipping from your lips and fingertips?

          • Neiman

            Every word of paragraphs 2 & 3 are lies manufactured out of your own self hatred and are not worth my time.

            Jesus came to save sinners, people (unlike you) that knew they were sinners, knew they deserved everlasting torments and in sincere, heart felt repentance confessed their sins and cast themselves completely on the mercy of God. He did not come to save good people, those that think they have a superior righteousness like you seem to, as they have no need of a Savior, which is why you will never confess Him as such.

            As I said, I do not care if I or these people offend you, if a single life is saved these people are heroes and deserve the respect of all true Christians for willing go into the evil of the world, wherein Satan dwells, and suffer your hate, your attacks and your ego, because they felt it was important to stop the wholesale slaughter of children in this country. If you do not like how they or I act, too dang bad, get over it.

          • Marcus

            Again, how are you helping the pro-life cause by fettering it with your particular brand of hate and judgement slipping from your lips and fingertips?

          • Neiman

            You know, they cut off John the Baptist’s head because he raged against the sins of the people, against Herod; and, I am sure that all those that were pleased by his death thought he as a hater because he spoke against them. Jesus offended just about everyone, He declared sin to be sin and did not mince His words, they(world) hated Him and they killed Him and they thought he was a hater because He opposed sin. You hated Him to, but He paid for your sins on Calvary, like everyone else in the world you were there in spirit, every sin in thought and deed in your life were laid upon Him.

            Paul, Peter and most the Apostles were killed, there were a host of martyrs killed throughout the Christian era, to say nothing of every Prophet that spoke of the coming Messiah. You know they don’t kill people because those they killed did not offend them somehow. they don’t kill them unless they think by their message that hate their own murderers.

            As I told you elsewhere, I only hate sins, mine first and then the world’s, mine because they offend the Lord Who saved me, the world’s because they keep precious souls from Jesus and salvation. Like my father, I hate those people, those various kinds of Nicolatian’s that lead people into sexual sins and Perdition. Yes, even God hates these things and if I am like my Father in Heaven in hating those things that keep people from Him and His Salvation, wherein am I wrong?

            “The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.” (Psalm 5:5)

            “The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.” (Psalm 11:5)

            “There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers. (Proverbs 6:16-19)

            “Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them. Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house. I will love them no more; all their princes are rebels. (Hosea 9:15)

            God is love means that God desires what is right. His love is a holy love; not a wicked love. He doesn’t love evil, but good. “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts,” cried the seraphim in Isaiah 6:2. “The whole earth is full of his glory!” And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. And Isaiah said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!”

            So while God sends his blessings on the whole world for a while, in
            order that those he has called to everlasting love may repent and be
            saved, these blessings won’t last forever. His general loving
            benevolence towards all people who are made in his image does not
            mitigate his greater love for what is holy.

            Did you know Jesus commended a Church in Revelation’s for hating the teachings of the Nicolatian’s that condoned sexual immorality? Yes, God hates anything that keeps His children or sinners from intimate communion and life with Him. So, while you can accuse me all you want, to hate sin is not against love, it is love, as I would in love, hate anything that would hurt my children.

            Knowing all of this, while His Grace is extended to “whosoever,” a most blessed all-inclusive term, He surely hates abortion, the murder of helpless, innocent children and He surely hates those that murder them; yet, if any of them sincerely confess their sins to Him and ask for His salvation and His Love, they will not be denied.

          • Marcus

            So…, what you’re saying is that you have absolutely no idea how are you helping the pro-life cause by fettering it with your particular brand of hate and judgement slipping from your lips and fingertips?

            You just prattle on in “Neiman’s” world and bear false witness against others without any factual evidence to support your distorted perceptions.

          • Neiman

            I am saying I don’t care what you think, you are nothing to me, not even a fellow believer in Christ, so your feelings about the issue are irrelevant.

            Your second paragraph is more of your Christian hating nonsense.

          • rbb

            Thank you for exposing your anti Christian values once again, Old Pal.

            Matthew 5:47

          • Marcus

            Perfect response!

            It is almost, as if, Christ didn’t want his followers running around “stuck up” and judgmental.

            Who would have thought…?

          • Neiman

            In the first place, your new pal RBB is an admitted non-Christian, please tell me what credentials he has to judge whether or not one has Christians values, as He is by refusing Christ’s salvation, and enemy of Christ?

            As to Matthew 5:47, like you, Bob speaks of what he does not know, he and you, not having the Spirit of Christ, cannot discern biblical truth.The passage has nothing to do with my dismissing your judgments against me as regards this issue, Matthew 5:47 does not speak to requiring a believer to have any regards for the judgments of non-believers on their conduct. You have made it clear that you will dictate how people may protest our national baby slaughter, which by the way Bob supports and after many useless exchanges with you wherein you ignore anything to do with the Bible, I made it clear I do not care what you think about me or these people in our way of protesting baby murders.

            Mathew 5:47 has nothing to do with salvation, it was not addressed to Christians, as there were yet none, it has mostly to do with hospitality, the Jews whom are here addressed, only greeting those of their people with concern for their welfare for the day and only extending it to strangers out of fear of them, when these strangers would greet them.

          • Marcus

            Neiman wrote: “In the first place, your new pal RBB is an admitted non-Christian,”

            That is a matter between himself and the Lord, not yourself, myself and the rest of the world.

            Neiman wrote: “please tell me what credentials he has to judge whether or not one has Christians values,”

            …as in, a diploma from the divine…?

            The credentials you’ve displayed and your comical inference to your I.Q. suggests that it is you that are not qualified.

            Self Love is a detriment to the qualifications you suggest.

            Neiman wrote: “…as He is by refusing Christ’s salvation, and enemy of Christ?”

            Now that would be between Christ and himself, and not the blathering postulations of Neiman.

          • Neiman

            “…as in, a diploma from the divine…?” Quite blasphemous of you!

            The Bible tells us that without the Spirit of God within, one cannot understand spiritual truth, which you might want to think about as you spurn God’s Word: “1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” Oops, I forgot you demand we not rely on God’s Word.

            Sorry, I have to use that Bible again that you hate: As regards an admitted non-Christian being an enemy of Christ:

            PHILIPPIANS 3:17-21: “Brethren, join in imitating me, and
            mark those who so live as you have an example in us. For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is the belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.”

            In rejecting God’s Salvation in Christ Jesus and herein almost daily posting stories that are anti-Christian in nature, I think the Holy Spirit would say that is being an enemy of the Cross of Christ.

            There is no use going on, you express hatred for these people in the way they oppose abortion and me for personal reasons and embrace and defend an admitted non-Christian, Case closed.

          • Marcus

            Neiman, if there is anyone engaged in blasphemy it is you.

            Not ONCE did you ask me if had accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour. Only assertions and accusations that I had.

            You have set yourself up before God, as the Devil attempted to do in Heaven before he was cast out.

            You expect that a person confesses to YOU so that you may determine that they are worthy of Neiman…, and his distorted perceptions of what God wants.

            That lack of Holy Spirit is precisely why I disregard your hate and judgement.

            You are not qualified to judge yourself, let alone anyone else.

            I have no hate for Christians, or pro-lifers. I simple roll my eyes at pompous Christian’s that judge others with impunity and fail to see the trangressions of their ways.

            What makes you a pharisitical hypberbalist is that you claim to adhere to the word yet fail to apply with agape. You suggest absurbdities and make wildly false claims about others without any factual proof.

            We are here to help one another…, and if that takes a lifetime for some…, so be it.

            But to have a heart filled with SO MUCH HATE to condemn and rebuke others…, you simply miss the true meaning of Christianity and are only in it for your version of the “secret handshake”.

            Matthew 25:40 “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Since you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me.”

            I certainly believe there is alway room for one to change their mind…, that is why judging others is a terrible waste of time.

            I have also witnessed more compassion come from atheists than self proclaimed Christians, such as yourself.

          • Neiman

            I was tempted, as is my custom, to take on every point one-by-one and not leave you any ground for your lies against me; but then I realized that most of these false accusations and lies above, I have already answered in great detail before under this thread, but you simply ignored everything wrote and just kept repeating the same lies. So, why waste my time?

            The only thing I will answer is this thing about asking you if you were a Christian or not. God tells us to test the spirits of men that we might know what spirit is in them and He tells us no one confesses Jesus as their Savior and Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit in them. So, as I do to everyone, I simply applied that test and as is unbelievably common among folk like you, pretending a Christian faith, you refused to clearly declare Jesus as your Savior and Lord. Oh, like all the others you have your cheap excuses, but the truth is, if any man is in Christ Jesus, if they rejoice in His Salvation because they know they deserve hell, none of those would hesitate for a micro-second to declare Him.

            I am not everyone’s cup of tea, I come straight at you without guile, without hidden purposes and declare a spade to be a spade clearly. If a person calls themselves a Christian while attacking people of faith that are in the trenches trying to save lives and then pretends it is their methods they hate, I see no Christian love in those attacks. It is like an evangelist that comes to town and people come out to him and by the Holy Spirit many souls come to Salvation in Christ; there are always so-called Christians that pick apart their clothes, style and other things and not once rejoice that souls are being saved and you are such a so-called Christian. I would have taken you and your complaints seriously about the rubber dolls, if your words were cloaked in Christian love for these brothers and sisters in Christ, but they were not, just like Bob and Ellinas, all you did was attack them.

            Lastly, how seriously should I consider you as a Christian, considering your refusal to confess Jesus, your attacks on Christians trying to save babies lives, your constant personal attacks against me and your demand that I not use the bible to defend myself?

          • Marcus

            Neiman wrote: “how seriously should I consider you as a Christian, considering your refusal to confess Jesus,”

            Whether YOU consider me a christian or not is of no consequence.

            I have refused nothing, as you’ve not asked a question. You’ve only made your personal assumption(s) and false wild accusations from your distorted perceptions.

            “Confessing” to Neiman’s false accusations would be nothing more than sucumbing to temptation.

            You only “test” others to placate your own ego, which is far from any “spiritual endeavor” you feign.

            Neiman wrote: “your attacks on Christians trying to save babies lives,”

            On the contrary, I speak against the delivery of a politcally charged item to the hands of an innocent 5 year old to further an agenda created by a group that exercises entitlement to do something age and venue inappropriate.

            So why is it again that pro-family and pro-faith groups complain about hyper-sexualisation of society stealing young peoples’ innocence…, and then hypocritically turn around and force a politcially charged item into the hands of a 5 year old which could potentially shorten a childs innocence?

          • Neiman

            I told you the biblical (I know you object to anyone using the Bible) reasons for asking if you believe Jesus is your only savior and the Lord of your life and you, like most so-called Christians, look for and find many excuses to deny Him by your silence. That is your free will choice. You will answer for it, not me.

            Jesus said if you deny Him as being your savior before men and you have denied Him by your refusal to confess Him; then He says He will not confess you as being His before the Father, which means any such person is lost.

            Your attack was on the mostly Christian people involved for how they chose to get in the faces of people and make them see that that baby in the womb is a human being, you only lie when you say it was the doll you objected to, you sit on the sidelines and shoot blanks from your mouth, while at least these people are doing something about the mass slaughter of children and you have the temerity to criticize them.

          • Marcus

            Neiman wrote: “like most so-called Christians, look for and find many excuses to deny Him by your silence.”

            Neiman, there can be no denial, when no question has been asked. You’ve only made wildly false statements on the matter which exist in Neiman’s world…, not reality.

            So why is it again that pro-family and pro-faith groups complain about hyper-sexualisation of society stealing young peoples’ innocence…, and then hypocritically turn around and force a politcially charged item into the hands of a 5 year old which could potentially shorten a childs innocence?

          • Neiman

            Yes, you are denying Him before men. That is your problem, not mine, I have identified who you are and like your attacks on these people below, the evidence of your anti-Christ spirit is perfectly evident for all to see.

          • Marcus

            Neiman, there can be no denial when the question has not been asked.

            You’ve only made wildly false statements on the matter which exist in Neiman’s world…, not reality.

          • Neiman

            I am really grateful to SAB, debating on this blog has been a real education for me on discerning the spirits of men. I have noticed that those people like you, Bob and many others that daily attack Christians here, use the same arguments, similar language, none of you answer questions or respond to my statements directly, never arguing the facts with facts, you work hard at sowing strife and keeping these exchanges going that you hope to stir up anger and bitterness from others as a source of entertainment; and I know beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt that, it is the spirit of anti-Christ within all of you.

            It appears to me that you are all very unhappy, self-loathing folk, because you can never humble yourself before God, confessing your sins and find His forgiveness and peace; because you think you have no sins, that you are good and deserve heaven for your goodness. You also loathe Christians because they resist you and will not submit to your practical atheism. Quite sad, but there is nothing I can do to help you.

            Yes, it has been an education in spiritual discernment.

          • Marcus

            Neiman wrote: “never arguing the facts with facts, you work hard at sowing strife and keeping these exchanges going that you hope to stir up anger and bitterness from others as a source of entertainment;”

            Now if that isn’t the pot calling the kettle black.

            Humbling oneself before God does not require humbling oneself before Neiman’s narcissistic rants.

            In the truest of arrogant profiling, you make assumptions, based upon your personal myopic perceptions and fill in the blanks with wildly false accusations, and distribute your venom before men.

            So as you continue to bear false witness (you should not lie , tell an untruth, in such a way that it will hurt someone else) you diminish the spirit within you.

            In our first exchange, you accused me of joining with atheists…, which is tantamount to profiling me as such, and categorically not true. The remainder of our exchanges have stemmed and morphed from your initial false judgmental statement. You continued to broaden your false witness to justify your previous false judgmental statements.

            Neiman, you are the living embodiment of what is wrong with the arrogant version of Christianity. While you pre-occupy yourself with condemning everything that moves…, I will look for the good in mankind and witness where necessary.

          • Neiman

            Thanks for proving the spirit of anti-Christ in you above. With every word you prove your allegiances to hell, as they are ALL lies from the father of all lies and liars.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Mark Twain quote: “It’s not what you don’t know that kills you, it’s what you know for sure that ain’t true.”

          • Neiman

            Thanks for proving the spirit of anti-Christ in you above. With every word you prove your allegiances to hell, as they are ALL lies from the father of all lies and liars.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Exactly the response I expected from you.

            It appears that you need to study what the accusing spirit really is…and do some serious self-reflection.

            Here’s a link: http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/accusing_spirit.php

            Excerpt: “The accusing spirit is an anti-Christ spirit, because it approaches people with no love, but a tone of condemnation. It works through a voice; the voice of condemnation.”

            Excellent read for anyone that’s felt falsely accused, condemned or marginalized by Neiman.

          • Neiman

            I know whom I serve, Jesus Christ, my only Savior and the absolute Lord of my life, the Jesus that you have by your silence denied. I know that by grace, through faith in Jesus I am saved . . . and none of your lies can change that simple fact. Plus, I know the spirit behind your lies above and I rebuke him and you.

          • Marcus

            The accusing spirit tells you how your heart is not right with God.

            The accusing spirit tells you that if you don’t read your Bible every day, that you aren’t serious about your relationship with God.

            The accusing spirit tears down rather than builds up.

            This is the exact opposite nature of God.

            The accusing spirit uses the letter of the law to lay heavy burdens and crush it’s victims, just as the Pharisees would do.

          • Neiman

            I am loathe to speak reason to you, as it is not an attribute of your character and personality; but what you consider accusations can just as easily be a Christian exposing the terrible flaws in your confessions and beliefs, it depends upon the spirit behind them; and as you refuse to confess Jesus as your only Savior and the absolute Lord of your life, your silence denies your being saved and thus having another spirit, requiring you be dealt with as a non-believer, being used of the enemy to attack Christians and silence the church, as you have done in this thread against the people bravely trying to show people of hard hearts that the baby in the womb is a human being, wherein you find all sorts of excuses to attack them, because you disagree with their methods and stand with atheists against them.

            At any point you could have just said that Jesus was your only savior and the lord of your life and the entire conversation would have taken a different tack. You could have at any point offered some expression of love for these people as brothers and sisters in Christ, with whom you only disagreed with their method, not their ministry; but you refused to confess Jesus or offer any loving support to these dear people, as it seems you want to keep a fight going and keep attacking people of faith, hardly a demonstration of a Christian Spirit within you.

          • Marcus

            What does the accusing spirit really want to do? Tear apart your faith and wear you down spiritually. He wants you to walk in guilt, condemnation, and never feel worthy of God’s glorious plan for your life.

            http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/accusing_spirit.php

          • Neiman

            Talk, talk, talk, but still no confession of Jesus as your only savior and the absolute Lord of your life, huh? That is your free will choice to deny Him by your silence.

          • Marcus

            Neiman, you’ve not asked a question. Only asserted the contrary to goad a response.

            The accusing spirit is a finger-pointing spirit.

          • Neiman

            I am weary of your nonsense, I have other things to do, you just want to keep a fight going due to your bitterness and hate at being opposed and attack Christians, where do you find that in the life of Christ?

            Now go away, I am tired of your childish games.

          • Marcus

            Neiman, there is no hate.

            I am simply responding to your wildly false accusations.

            Even when the accusing spirit seems to be pointing to the answer, the burden that it lays on the person is overwhelming or irrational.

          • Neiman

            God will judge between us. There will only be one question at stake, although God will ask no questions, it is what we did about Jesus. If we are found to be in Christ by faith – part of His Holy Body, there can be no appearance before God’s Court at all, no judgment, no condemnation. If you find yourself standing before the Lord on Judgment Day, the verdict is already against you.

          • Marcus

            For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

            2 Corinthians 11:13-15

            The whole motivation behind this ugly demon spirit is to discredit the work of Christ in our lives.

          • Neiman

            Why would such a person seek to have people confess Jesus as their only Savior and their Lord? Will Satan cast out Satan? If Satan or his minions seek men to confess Christ – confessing Him as their Savior, is not his house divided?

            You better remember that no man can confess Jesus as their savior unless he has the Spirit in Him and you keep refusing to thus confess Him.

            You discredit the work of Christ by attacking fellow Christians here that are opposing abortion and by refusing to confess Jesus as your only Savior and the absolute Lord of your life, preferring silly, childish games. I suggest you look in the mirror, the demon looking back is you. You are using up a great deal of time and effort to keep a fight going, to attack me as you attack Christians opposing abortion. Would Jesus keep fighting with men and causing strife, divisions and hatred?

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Your entire assessment of the situation is wrong.

            I have never refused to confess Jesus as my Savior, you just assume it as such because you are too prideful to directly ask the question.

            I have no need to discredit anyone’s works, as they are discrediting their own work via the spectacles they create.

            I have been clear from the outset.

            I have NO PROBLEM with pro-lifers having a booth and distributing their message. However, handing an innocent child a politically charged item, in a parade – no doubt, that could serve to strip away their fleeting innocence in immoral. It turns people off and makes pro-lifer Christians look like nut-jobs.

            Parents have the right to bring that message to their children until those children are mature enough to understand the issue.

          • Neiman

            You cannot let go, you just want a fight for your own psychological needs and I doubt Jesus would agree with you.

            When I first asked a person here about confessing Jesus as their only Savior and Lord, like you they refused, but several Christians not involved at all, rushed to make that confession, happy for any excuse to proclaim Jesus as their only Savior and the Lord of their lives. I cannot imagine why any true Christian would hesitate for a moment for any cause, even if not asked directly, to make that confession. The latter seeming to be a pretty lame excuse.

            As I said, who are you to object to their methods, at least they are on the front lines doing something to save lives and if people are offended or children lose their innocence, as if in today’s media age that is possible, at least they are fighting for these precious souls and along with criticism deserve applause for their efforts and the support of other Christians.

            No matter what, any Christian speaking out for Christ and against sin is going to be accused of being a nut job or of discrediting their own work. Who cares, Jesus said his children would be hated, He and all His followers are always hated by this world and that includes way, way over 90% of the people on earth. Immoral? That is your subjective opinion and cannot be supported by Scripture – oops, I forgot you do not want Scripture mentioned.

          • Marcus

            Whether you choose to believe it or not…, my humility keeps be from boasting that I am a Christian, however, when asked directly, I never avoid the question.

            To suggest that the end justifies the means: Neiman wrote: “…and if people are offended or children lose their innocence, ” underscores a lack of objectivity and dangerous measure of hypocrisy.

          • Neiman

            That is a false humility and suggests embarrassment over claiming Jesus. Jesus said if we fail to believe in Him with our hearts and confess Him before men with our mouths, He will deny us before the Father, meaning we are lost. We should be proud of Him, proclaim Him from the rooftops and even if it meets with the disapproval of our employers. we need to confess Him to other employees because we cannot help but share what Jesus as done for us and wants to do for them. No matter the costs.

            The Gospel offends almost everyone on earth, since when is offending people a reason to not defend life? If one life is saved, then if everyone else is offended and gets upset – too bad, that child’s life is of greater value than worrying about others being offended.

          • Marcus

            So then why is it so difficult for you to ask the question directly?

            I am very concerned that you believe that stripping away a child’s innocence is a justifiable action and an acceptable causality.

          • Neiman

            So then why is it so difficult for you to ask the question directly?

            It is not difficult at all, why do you need a direct question to be prompted to express your devotion to Christ? I cannot imagine anyone needing such an incentive, if He is the center of every part of their lives, if He is their greatest love in life.

            I am very concerned that you believe that stripping away a child’s innocence is a justifiable action and an acceptable causality.

            When facing the mass murder of helpless, innocent children, the ending of the greatest gift of God – LIFE, I think a little loss innocence is an acceptable casualty, if it is the price to end our national baby holocaust, it is very low indeed.

          • Marcus

            Neiman wrote: “It is not difficult at all,”

            Then why are you too prideful to ask, given the wildly false accusations that you’ve center around that refusal? Even as you persist in your refusal to ask, you attempt to qualify your actions with additional passive aggressive attacks.

            Neiman wrote: “I think a little loss innocence is an acceptable casualty, if it is the price to end our national baby holocaust,”

            This is where we differ in philosophy. To suggest an avoidable error in which something good is eliminated, like a child’s innocence, to rid the world of abortion is tantamount to rejecting the essential along with the inessential.

            The whole point of the 12 week old fetus doll is to get people to think.

            It is entirely possible that presenting the 12 week old rubber fetus to an innocent child awakens a “curiosity” in an innocent child that leads to them learning about the ways and means of reproduction earlier than normal, that could lead to experimentation, that could lead to a teen pregnancy, which could lead to another pair of souls facing the very issue that you are trying to overcome?

            Pardon the expression, but considering a “little loss of innocence” to a be an acceptable thing…, is un-acceptable.

          • Neiman

            (1) Then why are you too prideful to ask, given the wildly false accusations that you’ve center around that refusal?

            I have answered you, it has nothing to do with pride and they are neither wild nor false accusations. I will repeat it and if you need time to get someone to read it to you and help you understand the words, there is no hurry. If you ever go to church, show your pastor my statement in quotes below, ask him if he would have to wait for a formal request in order to satisfy his ego, as you do: “why do you need a direct question to be prompted to express your devotion to Christ? I cannot imagine anyone needing such an incentive, if He is the center of every part of their lives, if He is their greatest love in life.”

            (2) That is because emotionally you are a child and care more about a little loss of innocence than the wholesale slaughter of tens of millions of helpless, innocent human beings. That borders on insanity! The scenario you paint is a desperate attempt to justify the unjustifiable, our national baby holocaust – you simply do not give a damn about those babies wherein the doctor shoves scissors into their brains and with many of them still with a pulse, some still gurgling sounds, being tossed into the garbage.

            What about the children of the Depression, the Children of the Dust Bowl, the children in Europe during WWII and I can name many, many other examples where they had to grow up damn fast, they had no time to worry about innocence, they had to struggle just to live, unlike the babies we murder in the tens of millions that did not have even a chance to struggle for life – because WE AS A PEOPLE MURDER THEM.

            What are you a woman, a weak sister? These people handing out these dolls to get people to face the truth, are fighting for the lives of children and you are less concerned about those murdered babies, those children being stabbed in the head to make them die, than for a few children, whose parents cannot guide them in this matter, losing their innocence. Good Lord, you values are all screwed up. Here is Marcus crying about a loss of innocence of a few small children, while he has not tears, no anger because tens of millions of babies are being slaughtered.

          • Marcus

            You’ve answered nothing in your bloviating rant.

            Yet, you continue to make wildly false accusations while you listen to the accusing spirit whispering in your ear while you manufacture justifications in your mind.

            You are bearing false witness against me and attempting to set qualifiers of circular reasoning.

            Your suggested “foregone conclusions” are just far-fethced fictional fabrications based on your own personal distorted perceptions.

          • Neiman

            Finally, you admit you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation, you only have lies about me, while you strut your raging ego. We now know that to you causing a child to lose some of their innocence is much, much worse than stabbing them in the brain and killing them. Thanks for making that clear.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Thank you for continuing to prove my point.

          • Neiman

            No, thank you for proving my points in spades: (1) That you refuse to confess Jesus as your Savior and Lord, unless begged to do so to salve your ego. (2) That you are more concerned about a few children possibly suffering some unquantifiable loss of innocence than you do about children being murdered in the womb. (3) That you will keep attacking Christians that are willing to defend the lives of helpless, innocent babies because you don’t want to risk them offending people of this world. (4) That you are more interested in prolonging a fight, creating strife and division and playing games than honestly debating an issue.

            It is a pleasure watching you self destruct that large ego of yours.

          • Marcus

            Wrong on all caluminous statements.

            Neiman wrote: “(1) That you refuse to confess Jesus as your Savior and Lord, unless begged to do so to salve your ego.”

            Confessing Jesus as a result of the accusing spirit is not of Christ. It is a demonic taunt.

            Neiman wrote: “(2) That you are more concerned about a few children possibly suffering some unquantifiable loss of innocence than you do about children being murdered in the womb.”

            Another manifestation of the demonic accusing spirit justifying one sin for another.

            Neiman wrote: “(3) That you will keep attacking Christians that are willing to defend the lives of helpless, innocent babies because you don’t want to risk them offending people of this world.

            Another manifestation of the demonic accusing spirit relying on speculation as reference.

            Neiman wrote: “(4) That you are more interested in prolonging a fight, creating strife and division and playing games than honestly debating an issue.”

            Hypocrite! Another manifestation of the demonic accusing spirit using calumnious reasoning to appear more righteous.

            Neiman wrote: “It is a pleasure watching you self destruct that large ego of yours.”

            Another manifestation of the demonic accusing spirit using projection to malign another.

            Get right with God, before you begin to prod or you’ll just end up looking odd.

          • Neiman

            You are so ignorant of Scripture it truly is appalling. You used the word demon, referring to me of course, in every response above. Okay, please show me in the Bible, quote exact verses wherein a demon has ever or it is said can ever confess Jesus as their Savior and Lord, as I do constantly.

            “1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”

            “”Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits
            to see whether they are from God (which is what I tried to do with you and you failed); because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

            But, I do confess Jesus as both my only Savior and my only Lord, while you refuse. So, while I know you said you do not like the Bible being quoted, are you ready now, looking at the passages above, to admit that your use of demon referring to me is unscriptural and you are making a false accusation against me? Are you ready to admit that there is nothing wrong with my asking you to confess Jesus, to test the spirit in you?

            You will never admit error or confess Jesus as your only Savior and Lord, because of your ego and your hatred of me personally, nor admit your many lies against me, like the one above about me justifying one sin at the expense of another. Prove it!

            If you have any interest in Jesus and eternity, go to church first, read your Bible and admitting you deserve hell, as we all do, in prayer ask Jesus to be your Savior and your Lord and you will cease being so angry, sowing strife and division and being so unpleasant.

          • Marcus

            Neiman, you cannot listen to the demonic accusing voice to condemn others and rejoice fully in the Holy Spirit.

            Yes, I am born again.
            Yes, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour

            I rarely, if ever, enter discussions on abortion, however, for some reason the Holy Spirit brought me here.

            Yes, I am a sinner…, and imperfect, but it does not cloud my ability to discern the accusing spirit that you are wrestling with.

          • Neiman

            “it does not cloud my ability to discern the accusing spirit that you are wrestling with.”

            Then you are saying God’s Word is not true that, demons (me) can confess Jesus as their Savior and Lord without having the Holy Spirit. Pretty terrible that unreliable Bible, huh? Must be scary not being able to trust God’s Word, as He apparently makes so many errors.

            You are not just imperfect, you are a man deserving of everlasting torments in hell, as are we all, saying we are imperfect is too kind and self serving.

            One thing you would do well to learn is that there are differing gifts of the Holy Spirit, different ministries, one is the evangelist spirit that calls sin to be sin and people to repentance and not kindly, John the Baptist was a perfect type. Each Christian must minister as he/she is called and not listen to a different pipe or drum, lest they play the wrong notes.

          • Marcus

            God’s word it true, however, man is imperfect as falls prey to temptation.

            The accusing voice works through Christians that have fallen and non-Christians alike.

            The pomposity of many Christian is to believe they retain a right to judge others, which diminishes the spirit within, and allows the accusing voice to work through them.

            This is the demonic accusing voice at work: “you are a man deserving of everlasting torments in hell”

          • Neiman

            Yep, even though I confess Jesus, according to you I am a demon. Damn Scriptures, always wrong.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Take heed Old Pal, we are on to your little charade.

            Matthew 7:15-20

          • Neiman

            I see my psycho-sexual cyber-stalker below is still, filled with lust, chasing after my every word, still lying with his every word, still pretending to be Saint Bob while insulting me in every comment and using me to attack Christ and the Church, a Christ and His Salvation that Bob has rejected; and, he clings onto and makes friends of anyone that will join him in attacking me, making them his disciples of hell.

          • Clairvoyant

            Um, you do realize that you are replying to yourself, do you not? I realize that you have had challenges making your point here, but this is getting a little weird.

          • Neiman

            You do realize you are cyber-stalking me just like Bob, right? I mean looking for my every word and going all over SAB to find me and attack me, right? I get sick of your brother Bob’s damnable lies, but I refuse to address him directly and am even loathe to do so indirectly, but occasionally I have to remind others here that he has a psycho-sexual obsession with me and is a pathological liar. I have no challenges beyond your limited intellect to understand the written word.

          • Clairvoyant

            Who the heck is “Bob”? And your attacks on me are nothing but a diversion from answering my other questions in previous threads. I’ve challenged you and you’ve replied with what amounts to nonsense.

            Again, who is “Bob”? Is this an imaginary friend in the same vein as making replies to yourself? Do tell.

          • Neiman

            I have not attacked you, that is a lie, cyber-stalker. What diversions, I answered everything from Scripture. What nonsense, you are angry and make false accusations because you hate King James and the KJV BIble which Bible and the NIV I used to counter your many errors.

            Everyone here knows who Bob is and so do you, if you read my comments again that you used to attack me without cause, I mentioned the person “below” and what is more, you know who I was referring to.

            You are such a liar, I explained why I replied to my own comments, but you ignore my answer as you always do and keep repeating your damnable lies against me.

          • Clairvoyant

            Lies? You’ve called me a liberal, even though you know I am a hard core Libertarian. The only time I vote Republican is when there isn’t a Libertarian candidate.

            I don’t have the time to read each and every post, so I miss the “blog-made” celebrities such as “Bob” that I wonder if they even exist. Link me to his posts as I don’t have the idle time as you so to look this stuff up.

            Errors? How can you call my posts errors when you don’t even have a genuine source to back up your claims.

            I feel filthy because I talk to a troll like yourself.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Confessing Jessus, asking for forgiveness, and continuing to sin is stuggle for each soul.

            The accusing spirit, set apart from the flesh, is a voice. It speaks to us, and when you attack others as a result of the accusing voice, you diminish your own Holy Spirit making it easier for the accusing spirit to work through you.

            The accusing spirit may even sound righteous, because it speaks of how failures are bad. Many Christian are guilty of asking for forgiveness but willing to condemn others as a result of the accusing spirit.

            1 Corinthians 5:12-13 ESV: For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

            Matthew 15:7-9 ESV: You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

            Romans 2:1-3 ESV: Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

          • Neiman

            Wrong! I cannot be an accuser of the brethren and a demon and have the Holy Spirit at all, if the first two are true then I cannot have the Holy Spirit, which your new brother Bob agrees with you about. It is either one thing or the other, you have named me a demon and an accuser of the brethren – that is it, that is your judgment and at least you should have enough manhood to stick with your judgment.

            Also, I will not allow you to use Scripture as you commanded me not to use it.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            It was not I that named you a demon. You self-imposed that label upon yourself.

            Nemain wrote: “You used the word demon, referring to me of course, in every response above.”

            It was not I that made a command to not use scripture. You asserted your assumption and received no response.

            Neiman wrote: That is your subjective opinion and cannot be supported by Scripture – oops, I forgot you do not want Scripture mentioned.

            I fully understand that the accusing spirit will protest any scripture that exposes it.

          • Neiman

            You accused me of having a demon, be a man and stick with your word.

          • Marcus

            I have not varied, it is you that is bargaining.

          • Neiman

            So asking you to act like a man and have enough guts to stand by your accusations against me is bargaining? That is insane!

          • Marcus

            Yes, what you are suggesting is really foolish and irrational.

          • Neiman

            Yes, what you are suggesting is really foolish and irrational

          • Clairvoyant

            Your “Jesus” is the false Christ, sometimes called the Bald Headed Christ. The Bald Headed Christ is worshiped (although not intentionally), by those who are easily mislead and do not understand original Scripture.

          • Neiman

            Then that is the majority of all Christians throughout the Christian era? As they all worship the same Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the one Who paid for all the sins of the whole world on Calvary, who is my only Savior and the absolute Lord of my life, the living Son of Almighty God.

            Your accusations are false, but you do have a spirit of contention, strife and division and not the love of Christ. You are joined here against me with an admitted non-Christian, makes sense though doesn’t it?

          • Clairvoyant

            I am responding to your post only and not anything else. Whether that person is Christian or not is irrelevant as I am directing my comments to you only. Funny, how you get bent out of shape by those that you perceive as being contentiousness, yet you use that strategy more than ANYONE in this blog. Since you haven’t accepted the real Christ, you can’t be saved, at least not yet. And I am going to help you with that. .It will be a process, but you will thank me for it. once you find the real Christ.

          • 7point62

            Ray

            Doctrines and religion are not the Living Jesus.
            The “Real Christ” is Alive and dwells with us.

          • 7point62

            Is this a seventh day thing?

          • Clairvoyant

            Oh no, not that I’m aware of. Just some deluded stuff I made up to get Neiman’s goat. I’m in a playful mood. No harm intended. :-)

          • 7point62

            Thought you had a religious doctrine going there for a moment.
            We gullible and all…. :-)

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Well, the picture is of the Boston Marathon terrorist.

            It’s what I picture Neiman looking like.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            A 59-year-old Salt Lake City man — who is a well-known Republican activist — has been charged with making a terroristic threat for allegedly emailing Salt Lake City Marathon organizers about placing bombs at the finish line of last Saturday’s race.

            http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56209645-78/anything-charged-court-george.html.csp

          • Marcus

            It is sad when activists cross the “ethical” line.

            It does not matter what the cause may be, the “spectacle” is what people remember by association.

            …and yet certain, pro-choicers and pro-lifers don’t grasp that simple fact.

          • Marcus

            Neiman, whether I am anything to you is a worldly concern that you have…, not “I”.

            You, like the “accuser” (devil) make wild and false accusations against others and myself. The evil you claim to see is a reflection of your own spirit.

            I looked back just to be sure…, and not ONCE did you ever “ask” if I was born again.

            To answer your chiding false accusations would do nothing more that to placate your narcissism. Your repeated behavior towards others and myself suggests that you would not believe the answer.

            You, like the “accuser” do not foster holiness…, you foster hate.

            The only reason that I engaged in discourse with you is to confirm that you have absolutely no idea how you are harming the pro-life cause by fettering it with your particular brand of hate and judgement slipping from your lips and fingertips?

          • Neiman

            I asked you to confess Jesus as your only Savior and your Lord several times and you chose to ignore it, which IMO no true Christian would ever refuse to do for a microsecond, their being too grateful for the opportunity to confess their precious Lord before all men. You have attacked me and these Christian people incessantly because you set yourself up as the judge of whether they are opposing the mass slaughter of children in a way that you would approve and not once have you herein offered a single word of brotherly love for them or me. So, you better look in that mirror yourself, all of your actions IMO have been decidedly anti-Christian in tone.

            We Christians are not here on earth to win causes or win friends, Jesus said the world would hate us as it hates Him, does the world hate you? No, as an apostle of Satan and a man of this world, Bob, embraces you as his brother. We Christians, like those before us, know that if we dare speak the Truth; and that, your false accusations to the contrary notwithstanding -> in true love of souls, in this case, the souls of millions of helpless, innocent babies, we know the world must hate us, just as it hates us for opposing homosexuality, as does God oppose that destructive lifestyle choice. We cannot be for God and stand with Jesus and not be hated by people of this world, it is that daily cross we must bear as true disciples of Christ.

            Love and hate: I have used this example many times – if a man has a fatal cancer and has made it clear he does not want to know the diagnosis and his friends tell us that they will be angry if we tell him the truth, are we acting in love to tell him anyway and point him to the cure or acting in hate? It is obvious you would call it hate. I say, we show our Christian love by standing up for the truth and striving to point people to Jesus as their only hope, even though we are attacked and hated. The same here, no matter if you agree or not, these dear people are fighting to save precious souls and it is inevitable, no matter how they do it, people like you will oppose and hate them because they/you define it as hate to confront them.

            Again, your accusation of hate is false, it is based on your disapproval of others, IMO in your judgmental spirit and your spirit of strife and division. I showed you wherein God hates, He hates sin and those through soft pedaling sin lead others away from Him and into hell and you refuse to show me wherein I am wrong to imitate my Father in this. I showed you how Christ, His Apostles, Prophets and many martyrs have been murdered because they offended others with their opposition to sin and declaring Jesus as the only way unto salvation. Then you demand I not use the Bible to base my arguments against your positions and IMO your wild, hate filled accusations against me and these dear heroes fighting to save the lives of helpless, innocent children. Then, the icing on the proverbial cake is your alliance with and praise for an admitted non-Christian that falsely used Scripture. I think the case against your being born again appears quite clear by overwhelming evidence.

            I do not care about a cause, pro-life or otherwise, I, like these dear heroes at this parade, only care about stopping the mass slaughter of babies by forcing those in support thereof to face the truth that what they are doing is murder of human beings. Unlike you we choose not to say it is okay, God loves those involved with abortion anyway; as absent their repentance they have committed a mortal sin. So, I say by your hate against these people fighting to save lives, putting your personal hatred of me completely aside, you are harming the Pro-Life cause by in reality only making it easier for these baby murderers to continue their blood lust filled killing spree, s you are advancing the idea that God is not angry about it and He does not want these babies seen as real human beings.

          • Clairvoyant

            Your unique, unconventional brand of “Christianity” is quite something to behold. And a challenge to defend. But, I have to admit that your “defense” of said position is entertaining.

          • Neiman

            Your lack of a confession of faith is something sad to behold, as is your sad ignorance of Jesus.

          • Tim Hines

            OK, I realize I really don’t have a dog truly in this race, but….Upon reading your quote “I cannot help it if you are overwhelmed by rational debate and get your feelings hurt when anyone dares oppose you”… It’s been through a time span of many years, definitions of “debate” and at least a plethora (how many constitutes a plethora? ;-) of “nom de blogs” but I can say that from my perspective only….I relish the obvious (but unadmitted by you) victories, but have learned the futility of wanting to pursue more…..

          • Neiman

            I have no idea what you just wrote, it was quite disjointed and rambling.

          • Tim Hines

            I expect no less of a reply from a man like you…(although, somewhere, in a place deep inside you can’t admit in public, I’m suspecting: Yeah, you do…) But wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about something…..

          • Neiman

            Again, I have absolutely no idea what you are rambling about, seriously.

          • Tim Hines

            I understand the posturing….And I realize the “rules of the game”….

          • Neiman

            Please understand, there is no game, no rules, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, then I guess I am forced to leave with the verbal equivelancy of a “stand your ground” law and paraphrase Dean Werner: “Fat, overdosed on piety and stupid is no way to go through life, son”….

          • Neiman

            Ah, so it was all about insults? Okay.

            My I.Q. and many of my accomplishments in life rule out stupid, if by piety you mean “spiritual devotion and reverence to God, ” I plead guilty, if it includes humility, I am still working on it. Fat, I am overweight.

            Now that you have made your insults clear, have a nice day.

          • Tim Hines

            Neiman… I will stand behind my original assertion that I intend to meet or exceed the level of civility offered me… But after 8 years of reading and participating on this blog, I am only too painfully aware of the rules of this particular game… I have debated you before, and I’m well versed in your intelligence, as well as other aspects of your personality…So you, of all avatars, feign indignation at my “insult” at THIS particular public personae you choose to project? Another quote comes to mind, this one from Larry The Cable Guy: “That’s funny right there, I don’t care who you are”…

        • PK

          You’re using that verse from the Bible completely out of context. What about, “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” Mark 16:15?

          • Marcus

            PK, you’ve completely missed the point and are choosing to argue semantics of theology.

            Attacking another as an atheist, as Neiman did, because they do not embrace the same politicized agenda does not represent the Christianity that many seem to abuse as justification for the actions.

            Prayer or feigned piety on the street corner so that other may see is little more than public spectacle. Which is really what Matthew 6:5 is talking about.

            The “Christians” that mis-use public spectacle is bad enough, however, presenting a five year old with a 12 week old rubber fetus has very little to go with God and more to do with the secular stirrings of man.

          • Neiman

            Your dishonesty is appalling.

            To oppose you, no matter how great is your enormous ego, is not the same thing as an attack. But, some people are immature and cannot deal with any opposition.

            To say you “join” with atheists and practical atheists, is not to call you either, but to suggest that is your association in this matter, as they agree with you, not Bible believing Christians. Although, virtually everyone in the world is a practical atheist at minimum, they proclaim faith, while they have no fear of God, hatred of sin nor live in anticipation of His soon return.

            I guess that John the Baptist fellow and of course Jesus and Paul, when they prayed and spoke on the streets against sin and called for repentance, they were engaging in an anti-Christian public spectacle? You simply reinforce my evaluation of you that you want Christians to shut up and stay at home.

            Who are you to judge people that are trying to stop our national baby holocaust, the mass murder of over 55+ million helpless, innocent babies? It is as I suggested, it seems you would say the same thing, if you lived then, of any Germans opposing the concentration camps and annihilation of the Jews.

            That is NOT what Matthew is talking about

            “Now let it be observed, that neither the posture, nor places of prayer, are condemned by our Lord, but the praying person’s desire to be seen of men; and a considerable emphasis lies upon the word “love”; they loved “standing” in prayer, rather than any other posture, because they could be better seen; and they loved to be in the synagogues and streets, rather than in their closets; they liked public better than private prayer, because it gained them applause among men.

            It was the motive of being seen by others and thus being well thought of for piety, it was not a condemnation of the place or the public nature thereof, but the desire for a reward from men praising them for their perceived righteousness. You sir, do not know the Bible and surely not God.

            Surely, as John the Baptist raged against sin and called people to repent (change their ways), these people are acting in the same Spirit and it is too bad you choose to attack them.

          • Marcus

            I simply do not share your distorted view of what Christianity is, nor do I condone the abuse of God to postulate a political agenda.

            Neiman: “You sir, do not know the Bible and surely not God.”

            …and yet you will be answering for that judgement at judgement day…

          • Neiman

            No, by faith Jesus paid for all my sins and the Bible says I cannot come into Judgment of any kind nor into condemnation. You are woefully, deliberately ignorant of the Bible.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Again, we disagree on matters that you assume are foregone conclusions.

            However, that not withstanding, your bearing of false witness against “myself” has little to do with the subject matter at hand.

            Handing a five year old a 12 week old fetus, then using a your version of Chrisitianity as justification of an immoral act is the thing that is “ignorant” in all this.

            Had Rob chosen to bring his children to a pro-life booth and teach them his beliefs and philosophies…it is his right to do so. As I’ve said before, I have not issue with them having the right to present their position.

            The spectacle was inappropriate.

            Your taunts and chiding remarks are immature at best.

            Matthew 7:1-5 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

            Assuming that you’re version of Christianity is the only way to grace is a slippery slope my friend.

          • Neiman

            Ah, I felt that rightly call you childish in some of your responses and like a child, you called me the same thing in return. Yeah, you sure proved your maturity, not. We can all act childish at times, it is the nature of the human beast and while we do not like it, it is often true.

            Before you accuse someone of bearing false witness, go to a Holy Spirit filled, Bible believing pastor and find out what it means, as you are woefully ignorant on the subject.

            These people are fighting to save the lives of helpless, innocent children, what better place to start the discussion than by this act, prompting the child to ask mommy or daddy what is this? I do not care if it offends you or 99.9999% of all the people that received these precious gifts that were designed to remind people of the great God given gift of life, are offended or how deeply offended- if just one woman sees this and reconsiders her planned abortion and just one baby lives, it was worth offending all the rest of you. If people were offended, maybe it is their conscience, maybe it hears the 55+ million babies screaming in agony at being murdered in their name.

            You don’t have any problem with their right to present their position is hogwash, you have done nothing but complain in this thread, wanting to dictate “how” they present their position. No one is asking you to minister in such a way, there are pastors, missionaries, those that discern spirits, etc and there are evangelists that oppose sin, let each person minister according to their gifts and not judge the gifts of another man.

            One time I watched a minister on television that acted less than manly in his mannerisms, he acted oddly and I was laughing at him; when I sensed the Lord reproving me in my heart, because this odd man might be chosen of God to minister to people that best respond to his personality and I was not to judge him. So, these people have their own gifts, they minister as they feel led of the Lord with the light they have and as they are about saving the lives of millions of helpless, innocent babies in the womb, I think if you were a Christian, even a carnal one, you would not join the enemies of Christ in attacking them.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            You are nothing more than a modern day Pharisee and offer nothing more in the way of substance.

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pharisee

          • Neiman

            Once again you err – Pharisees and Sadducee were legalists, people of the Law that believed salvation was earned; while I preach against sin only to lead others to grace.

            Please go to a bible believing Church and be born again before you keep making a fool of yourself by such ignorance.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Thank you for confirming my point.

          • Neiman

            In this comment and your previous one, you appear to be a child, not a man.

            In the first one, an adult would have said “I think you are a Pharisee because ………..,” adding those things you think I say or do that meets the definition, but like a child, you just make accusations. In this one above, an adult would say, “you confirm my point because …………” That is the essence of debate/discussion between adults. You failed the test.

          • Marcus

            Neiman,

            Once again you prove my point in the nature of your reply.

            You claim to preach against sin and lead people to grace but judge whether it is earned by metrics qualified by “Neiman”. ..and don’t hide behind the “word of God” or “written in scripture” argument, as they are only the secular interpretation of “Neiman”.

            You rarely interact with people without hate and judgement slipping from your lips and fingertips. To judge others and myself as you have…, is to suggest that you know the will of God and choose to speak on his behalf.

            That is not “bible believing Christianity”…

            That is wrath and pride which are detrimental as it sows discord among brethren. Ironically, God kicked Satan out of Heaven for similar reasons.

            What you painfully miss in your judgmental arrogance is the lessening of value in what you claim to represent and how it is supposed to help the pro-life cause.

          • Neiman

            Once again you failed to establish I was in an way a Pharisee, you got caught and now are just bloviating nonsensically.

            What metrics?

            Hate and judgment are your subjective opinions, not facts. More prof you are unable to debate like an adult.

            When I wholly trust in God’s Word, I cannot possibly respond to questions about faith, when you demand I not rest m case on the Bible alone.

            God kicked Satan out because Satan wanted to sit upon God’s Throne. Jesus said He came to divide brother from sister, father from son, etc. What brethren? You have never confessed Jesus as your only Savior and the Lord of your life, that I might test your spirit to see if it is of the Lord. Further, as you set yourself against Bible believing Christians and even demand they not rely on God’s Word, it hardly speaks of a Christian Spirit within you.

            The rest of your tripe is not worth debating, as you have done nothing to establish yourself as a Christian, your opinion has no value.

          • Marcus

            Neiman Quote: “You have never confessed Jesus as your only Savior and the Lord of your life, that I might test your spirit to see if it is of the Lord.”

            Hmmm…, so that “I” might test…?

            You do not know this…
            You have no proof of this…
            You are not qualified to test this…
            You have made every wrong assertion to discover this…

            Once again, Thank You for confirming my points by your actions, words and deeds.

            Again, how are you helping the pro-life cause by fettering it with your particular brand of hate and judgement slipping from your lips and fingertips?

          • Neiman

            The Lord ask us to test the spirits of men and not embrace others as brothers in the Lord that cannot confess Him as their Savior and Lord, because the Spirit of God is not in them. In such a way, most people claiming Christianity have been exposed as being deceived and not part of the family of God.

            The only hate I have is for sin, mine first and then in the world and for those people that falsely use Jesus Name to excuse sin, cover up sin and thereby lead souls into hell. Did you know that God hates too?

            It seems a contradiction that a God who is love can also hate. We are created with the capacity to both love and hate; it is part of our being created in the image of God. The fact that we are all tainted with sin does not negate the fact that the ability to love and hate is part of the image of God that was created within us all. Therefore, if it is no
            contradiction for a human being to be able to love and hate, then much
            more so would it not be a contradiction for God to be able to love and
            hate.

            When the Bible does speak of God hating, the object of God’s hatred is
            usually sin and wickedness. Among the things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31; 16:22) and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4-6; 11:5). Proverbs 6:16-19 outlines seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots, those who love evil, false witness, and troublemakers. Notice that this passage does not include just things that God hates; it includes people as well.

            The question that begs to be answered at this point is why does God hate these things? God hates them because they are contrary to His
            nature—God’s nature being holy, pure and righteous. In fact, David
            writes, “For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you” (Psalm 5:4 emphasis added). God is holy and hates sin. If He did not hate sin, He would not be holy. God is love, but He is also wrath, justice, and vengeance. But His wrath is a holy wrath and His justice and vengeance are holy as well. God’s love is holy. Therefore, He cannot “love everyone all the time no matter what they do,” as some like to claim. Nothing could be further from the truth. God loves righteousness and holiness and hates sin and evil. If He did not, He would not be God.

            So if God hates sin and loves holiness, how does He love us? Simple. He loves us because we have the righteousness of Christ who became sin for us on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21).He poured out His wrath and vengeance against sin on His Son, so that He could pour out His mercy and love on us. But without that sacrifice credited to us, His wrath and hatred remain on us because He hates our sin. The Bible never says He “hates the sin, but loves the sinner.” In fact, He is “angry with the wicked every day” (Psalm 7:11).Is there a sense in which God loves everyone? Yes. Does that love preclude God from also hating sin, wickedness, and evil? No.

            Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-hate.html#ixzz2aBWO9xRq

            Did you know Jesus commended two churches in His Letters to them in Revelations for hating the doctrines of the Nicolatians which excused sexual sins? So, if I hate these things that God hates, that keep precious souls from gaining eternal life and Heaven, wherein am I wrong.

          • rbb

            This arrogance you display, Old Pal, is exactly what will leave you left behind.
            Good luck with that.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Thanks Marcus, but I want to be clear that I’m 100% pro-life.

      I disagree with the tactic, not the message.

      • Marcus

        Not a problem Rob,

        My reply is not centered against either side of the issue. It is commentary on the tactical way in which it was imposed.

        Both sides of the issue have a political agenda and both sides conjure up propaganda to evoke a response…emotional or not.

        I personally eye-roll at both sides because the “spectacle” of the day undermines any valid point being made.

      • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

        I am 100% PRO life. So naturally I am PRO choice. How many peaches will you get if you harm the tree?

  • Neiman

    You have to remember that Rob’s objection to abortion is NOT a moral objection, rather he sees it as a Constitutional issue, wherein The Declaration of Independence speaks of a life as a basic right: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are
    life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

    Further, as Pro-Life is, for all intent and purposes, a cornerstone of the Christian faith movement, he would not be expected to support any part of it in the most remote way, if it aligned himself with those myth believing “crazies.” What he also will never get and will always oppose is an in your face brand of faith, wherein a thing is called by name, without self-serving euphemisms. Many, Christians, myself included, believe sin cannot be admitted and confessed as sin and the person turn to Christ for Salvation, if they dilute it and make sin anything less than a matter of heaven or hell. To confront people, as did John the Baptist in clear, unmistakable terminology, to engage in modern communications and make it clear that the object in the woman’s womb is indeed a human being, to people like Rob and most liberals is rude, it is crazy, it turns people off; which is why most on the Left, including Libertarians object, they think Christians should shrink back, sit quietly in the corner and anyone that like corner sitting and silence may think well of Jesus.

    This rubberized infant/doll may not be Rob’s atheist/Libertarian cup of tee and it may turn many people off; but, turned off or not the Pro-Life people have done their job, they issued a clear warning, like a watchman on the wall and whether people hear them or not, their conscience is clear.

    • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

      The DOI has no force of law. The government can execute you. Therefore, there is no right to life.

      • Neiman

        “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

        The government is not supposed to be able to execute you without due process of law.

        THE DOI is our national charter, it set forth the principles which the Constitution was to enshrine in law.

        • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

          The DOI has no force of law. It was written before we were a nation.

          Tell Obama and Congress about not executing “without due process of law.” If they want your butt, your butt belongs to them.

  • petrakeena

    I’m surprised you even allowed this to happen. They wouldn’t have gotten close enough to my children to hand them anything. I never allowed just anyone to approach my sons. If someone tried they would have received a stern warning.

    • MatthewTanner

      Yeah, what kind of irresponsible parent are you? According to you, they could have been handing your child anything.

      • petrakeena

        Clean the wax out of your ears. What I said was they wouldn’t have gotten that close to my kids.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      It was handed out in the same way they were handing out candy and Frisbees.

      • MatthewTanner

        You’re an irresponsible parent. Learn to take care of the ones that you have before trying to dictate others reproductive health.

      • petrakeena

        Wow…that is creepy.

  • Pro-Death

    This comment thread is hilarious. It really does prove Rob’s point…. but Rob, as a Republican, shouldn’t you have waited until the rubber doll was born before you threw it away?

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Well, rubber dolls aren’t born, so no.

  • MatthewTanner

    Fetuses taste like chicken.

    • PK

      Screw you buddy.

      • MatthewTanner

        Screw you and your mother, asshole.

        • PK

          Oh, so i’m the asshole? I didn’t realize i was the one making jokes about eating dead babies.

          • MatthewTanner

            They’re yummy. I like them sautéd with some garlic.

  • Suzan Oloshove-moell Rasey

    ok if the mom chooses to have said baby..are you as a society ready to feed it ,clothe it take care of it? or should she give birth in a ally then let baby starve to death……..wanna save a life then we must take care of life!

    • Gern Blanston

      Yeah! Kill the fetus – Save a life!

      • MatthewTanner

        Kill the fetus. There are too many damn people here already.

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          The post discusses the marketing issue of the pro-life movement.

          And with these comment, we see the marketing problem the pro-abortion movement has.

          • MatthewTanner

            I’m not pro-abortion. i’m anti-taking-over-a-woman’s-body-against-her-will.

          • Gern Blanston

            …at the expense of another life. If you had the courage of your convictions, you’d be more expressly fighting for the position that a fetus is not a human life. THAT is the true essence of the argument, but pro-abortionists obfuscate with “women’s rights” arguments. Women’s rights is a secondary argument made only after you sell the idea that the fetus is not human (and worthy of state protections). Moreover, you must then declare at what point that fetus becomes a human life: after natural birth? After 24 weeks gestation? When? Nah, that’s too difficult. Instead declare a war on women, avoid talk about the fetus, and thus side-step the real discussion.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, I realize politics make strange bedfellows, and it’s just my opinion….But to me, the real question a lot of Tuesdays in November is how can a party these days, that seems to be running more and more on a platform of limited government and outrage at “government” controlling our lives…have this particular issue so close to their core beliefs? I’ve never truly been able to wrap my brain around that one….

          • Gern Blanston

            Because it is a matter of life and death to most of those right-leaning folks. Voluntary termination of human life has traditionally been a red flag to humans. Its mentioned in the Ten Commandments; there are laws against in in virtually all societies and have been for all of history. The reason (I can suppose) you should be struggling with this is because you don’t buy the concept of protecting human life prior to natural birth; or prior to some other milestone on the life of a human being.

          • Tim Hines

            I can only speak for myself, but I believe I am quite comfortable in all I’ve done for my own child and others, as well…I don’t know you at all, but I’ve met my share who have the UTMOST compassion for the child while still in the womb, but after birth take a surprisingly colder view of the whole ordeal….

          • Gern Blanston

            O.K. You stated you couldn’t grasp how Republicans are so tied to the abortion issue since they are all for limited government; I noted the issue of preserving a human life is the reason – implying that just like with murder, Republicans are willing to use government aggressively to save lives. You replied with a statement about folks not having compassion for children after their birth. Looks like you’ve switched the discussion to early child care from abortion.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, at least in my mind, the dichotomies of the two scenarios are what joins them and for me at least, weighs on my mind while selecting a candidate to vote for….If you say you’re for limited government, I would want you to carry that conviction across the board…If you say you want to show compassion for the child living inside the mother, I personally would like that sense of compassion to stay in place beyond the third trimester… I can tolerate and forgive alot of transgressions, but I have huge issues with hyprocricy…

          • Gern Blanston

            Huh? So your implication is that if one supports restricting or eliminating abortions, they must also support care/concern for children after birth. And what ideas have I put forth that suggest I support policies that do not show care/concern for children?
            Limited government doesn’t mean no government. Am I a hypocrite to support laws against murder and then suggest Obamacare is bad? I get tired of these childish absolutists who can’t discern the difference between limited government as preached by the founders and no government.
            Pro-lifers and not pushing for an expanded government – we’re pushing for a consistent approach to laws against ending human life.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, in response to your question “what ideas have I put forth that suggest I do not show care/concern for children”…If I answered truthfully, as it pertains only to the “nom de blog” of Gern, I have to say: None….So feel free to enlighten/educate me in any way you feel fit, and I believe I’m enough of a man to apologize if I’m incorrect….

          • Gern Blanston

            O.k., then answer as it pertains to a different ‘nom de blog’ of mine. But let me know which ‘nom de blog’ you are referencing, because I have only used one other ‘nom’ and that was extremely rarely, and prior to the requirement to register.

          • Tim Hines

            OK, that’s your story, I can’t seem to go any farther, so we’ve probably reached an impasse…But as far as whose turn it was to answer, I believe that’s you, and the topic was what level of compassion (included in nightly prayers, donations to local churches, or support of some sort of “welfare”) do you show for children of struggling mothers once you’ve hypothetically eliminated the option of legal abortion?

          • Gern Blanston

            Support to churches, support to organizations such as First Choice Clinic. Of course, my tax monies certainly go to some of the welfare. But your question still ignores the basic difference in our positions. Life is worth protecting, even when is hasn’t yet been born. We should work to avoid unwanted pregnancies, not come up with a plan to kill-off the beings that result from those pregnancies. To a pro-lifer, it is no different than suggesting we use euthanasia instead of ‘wasting’ Medicaid/Medicare funds on Alzheimer care. The argument for euthanasia in that case is the same as yours for abortion.

          • Tim Hines

            I understand the mileage gained under the euthanasia argument, and seen variations of it used to some degree of (astonishing to me) effectiveness, such as “Obamacare death panels”…I just personally have enough faith in basic human nature that I honestly don’t think we as a society would ever cross that line….I would never consider abortion an option in any life that I was involved in helping to create, but my belief in how human nature operates also tells me that if it WERE to become illegal, a black market would emerge to fill the demand in the “market void”….

          • Tim Hines

            Also, upon review, you say WHAT you support, but it sounds more like a grudging acknowledgment that “your tax money certainly go to some of the welfare”…I thought we were talking hypotheticals here….So IF you achieved your hypothetical perfect state of all abortion being made illegal, do you or would you hypothetically support any tax dollars being used to aid these families with children in the fourth trimester and beyond? Feel free to put any hypothetical time limits you would be willing to consider….

          • JoeMN

            Feel free to put any hypothetical time limits you would be willing to consider.
            _______
            It’s not necessarily a choice between one or the other.

            Abortion is a moral issue.

            Only the most stone cold leftists promote abortion as a method of population control, or poverty reduction.

            Yet unlimited entitlements contribute greatly to this problem of generational poverty.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, as much as some around here try and label me as stone cold leftist, libtard, or worse, I’m secure enough in my voting record to know that I’m not….If you followed this conversation as it started with “Gern”…What I’m getting hung up on at the polls for the past 15 years or so is what I just personally perceive as hypocricy of some in the Republican Party these days…I just consider abortion the epitome of personal decisions, and while I would never consider it for any life I was involved in creating, I also cannot get over the dichotomy of those who advocate for its legal end, as well as any type of governmental assistance for those families truly in need…I am only one guy from a small town in ND, spouting off his opinion, but I will share mine that I consider forcing a child on someone (and yes, I know, they COULD “just say no”) that they are not prepared for raising, and then refuse any type of assistance (which I admit, still needs to be trimmed, tamed and is not in anyone’s best interest as a lifetime option) is to me, a greater moral outrage….

          • JoeMN

            So we as a society (or more precisely the productive within it) must care so much, and even feel a moral obligation to provide whatever comfort deemed necessary (food housing Obama phones ect) yet at the same time dare not to question the morality of those who freely create, then destroy human life merely out of convenience ?

            How can we act “morally” as a society without expecting the same of those individuals within it ?

          • Tim Hines

            Sometimes the only reward is trying to be the better person….Wish I had more for ya, and it’s just my opinion, but it what seems to get me through staring at myself in the mirror when I shave in the morning…As an interesting aside, are you operating under the delusion that “obamaphones” program started under the Obama administration?

          • JoeMN

            To me at least, “being the better person” in no way involves a collective hammer

            are you operating under the delusion that “obamaphones” program started under the Obama administration?
            _____
            Are you operating under the delusion that this excuses abuse of the program ?

          • Tim Hines

            And, now that I’ve had a few minutes to research the Obamaphone program a bit more….Are you aware Joe, that this program is not even funded from tax dollars? (At least not on face value) The telecommunications companies pony up for it, and while I find it personally repugnant that the Verizon corporation had paid an effective rate of 0 percent these past years, my first gut reaction was “well, at least they are doing something”…Then, when I paused and reflected, I realized that it was probably scams like these that ENABLE this corporation to pay an effective tax rate as this, and I would then be in favor of scraping the whole program, and allow Verizon et. al. to pay what is to be probably forever to be debated as a “fair share”…So, back on another thread you had accused me of being a left wing plant, I tried to assure you that i”m logged in with my real name and pic, and I’m even planning a trip into MN next month if you needed more proof….Now I guess I will have to ask you: Are you nothing more than a right wing propagandist yourself, or just a good man who foolishly got conned into taking a long hard swig of this particular bile-flavored Kool-Aid? And you are correct, being a better person should not involve a collective hammer, but it should involve some basic reading comprehension and a desire to get the whole story….

          • Tim Hines

            Hmmmmmm, Disqus appears to be acting all wonky again, I don’t seem to see my first response to Joe as it pertains to the “Obamaphone” program…Rob, I’m not sure if your’re out there monitoring or not, and I don’t want to accuse ANYONE unnecessarily of anything, but I DO have a screen shot I could put back up, just in case I can’t remember the exact wording of the response….Can we see what could be done about this?

          • Neiman

            To be for choice is exactly the same thing as being pro-abortion, as that self-serving euphemism of “choice” always results in a murdered baby.

          • donwalk

            But you are OK with taking over a baby’s developing body and crushing, severing its spinal cord or mutilating it until it is dead?

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      I’d rather have a debate over social programs to take care of unwanted children than just killing the children for the good of society, as the pro-abortion folks seem to want.

      • WingedBeast

        Actually, there’s a tendency of pro-choicers to support social programs, such as nutrition assistance, welfare, etc.
        Oh, and we’re pro-choice, as in favoring the choice being in the hands of the woman, not desiring her to choose to abort.
        We’re also more likely to support rules in place, such as making it illegal to fire a woman because being pregnant makes her less capable of doing a job (being incapable means maternity leave) so that there’s less pressure on her to abort.
        We’re not the ones limiting the options, here.

    • Neiman

      Why wasn’t she responsible in the first place, before conceiving the child and either not engage in sexual intercourse or use contraceptives of some type? Except in cases of rape or incest, wherein I still do not believe killing the baby is justified; but for the sake of argument, she made a choice and she then is morally obligated to care for and nurture that baby and make whatever sacrifices are necessary, no matter the costs. If she remains so evil as to want to get rid of the baby, there are still many Christian based adoption agencies that are willing to find good parents and in the meantime feed and clothe the child, so she can still escape the consequences of her irresponsibility.

    • donwalk

      Lets keep it simple and not be hypocrites! If life ends when
      the heart stops beating, doesn’t life began when a heart starts beating?
      1. “Are there any restrictions you would approve of?”
      2. “Do you believe in the absolute right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy because the unborn fetus is female, or a male – whichever the abortionists does not want to see live?”
      3. “Do you support any restrictions or parental notification regarding abortion access for minors?”
      4. “If you do not believe that human life begins at conception, when do you believe it begins? At what stage of development should an unborn child have human rights?”
      5. Studies have shown that the vast majority of women who become pregnant with Down syndrome children and find out about it through available testing choose to abort, much like gendercide. “How do you answer the charge that this phenomenon resembles the ‘eugenics’ movement a century ago – the slow, but deliberate ‘weeding out’ of
      those our society would deem ‘unfit’ to live?”
      6. “Do you believe an employer should be forced to violate his or her religious conscience by providing access to abortifacient drugs and contraception to employees?”
      7. “Alveda King, niece of Martin Luther King, Jr. has said that ‘abortion is the white supremacist’s best friend,’ pointing to the fact that Black and Latinos represent 25% of our population but account for 59% of all abortions. “How do you respond to the charge that the majority of abortion clinics are found in inner-city areas with large numbers of
      minorities?”
      8. Pro-choice candidates and advocates often refer to abortion as a “tragic choice.” If abortion is not morally objectionable, then why is it tragic? Does this mean there is something about abortion that is different than other standard surgical procedures?”
      9. Even if some support abortion rights, many pro-choicers still believe that there must be a cut-off (i.e. if the child can live outside of the mother, the procedure should no longer be permitted). “Do you believe abortion should be legal once the unborn fetus is viable – able to survive outside the womb?”
      10. “If a pregnant woman and her unborn child are murdered, do you believe the criminal should face two counts of murder and serve a harsher sentence?”

  • MatthewTanner

    If you can compel a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, why could you not compel someone to donate an organ (a kidney) to someone who needed it?

    • PK

      Ha, that’s the stupidest comparison i’ve ever heard. Rob, this guy is an example of how not to make your case. This guy does his cause more harm than good, not the people handing out models of fetuses.

      • MatthewTanner

        Don’t cry, little girl. Fetus gumbo, fetus fricassee, fetuses Norfolk, chili con fetus…

        • PK

          Were you one of the demons chanting “hail Satan” in Texas a couple weeks ago?

          • MatthewTanner

            Fried fetus, fetus kabobs, fetus and rice, fetus and noodles, fetus Buffalo style, fetus “baby back” ribs, fetus spread, fetus Rubin…

          • PK

            Yeah, i think we got. It’s very hilarious. I’m sure you got a hard-on fantasizing about the death you love.

          • MatthewTanner

            Fetus pot pie, fetus scampi, fetus stew, smoked fetus, fetus sausage, roast fetus…

      • Eury

        No, PK, this guy is an example of a troll. Google it and move on.

      • WingedBeast

        Actually, it’s a good question. If there is one case where one person’s right to life (alleging for the sake of discussion that personhood begins at conception) overrules another’s right to privacy, why not others?

  • Tim Hines

    Wow…So I know I got shot down, dismissed and defined as dense over on another thread, but it bares repeating….This is another example of how difficult it is to have a sane political discussion in our country these days..(and now that I’m done here, I’m going to read my new Rollingstone that just came in the mail and see what all the fuss is about)

  • LastBestHope

    Princess Kate has baby boy. Liberals not happy at another carbon based pollutant infesting their world.

    • Tim Hines

      In the beginning….God made the universe…This has made a lot of people angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move ;-)

      • Jennifer Starr

        Props for the Douglas Adams quote.

        • Tim Hines

          Thanks! GREAT book!

      • Tim Hines

        Thanks! GREAT book…

  • alecia

    I was at the beginning of the parade and it did not happen…also why do you have to talk about abortion to your child…its just a little plastic doll,btw who does not have its genitals in its hands. Also whoever posted this lie along with saying it looks like a grotesque alien is the sick person. Maybe take a class,read a book and get educated on how human babies are created, develop and look at different stages of development.Seriously people,just because its on the internet doesn’t make it true!

  • http://plumstchili.blogspot.com/ Plum Dumpling

    Science? Life does not begin at conception. The ova and sperm are alive. Life is a continuum that began eons ago. 60% of fertilized ova are naturally aborted. Science my sweet petunia. Come up with a better argument for trying to run my Bird.

    In the field of human genetics, Mitochondrial Eve, who is estimated to have lived approximately 190,000–200,000 years ago, refers to the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living anatomically modern humans. In other words, she was the most recent woman from whom all livinghumans today descend, on their mother’s side, and through the mothers of those mothers, and so on, back until all lines converge on one person. Because all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) generally is passed from mother to offspring without recombination, all mtDNA in every living person is directly descended from hers by definition, differing only by the mutations that over generations have occurred in the germ cell mtDNA since the conception of the original “Mitochondrial Eve”.

    Mitochondrial Eve is named after mitochondria and the biblical Eve.[2] Unlike her biblical namesake, she was not the only living human female of her time. However, her female contemporaries, except her mother, failed to produce adirect unbroken female line to any living woman in the present day. – wikipedia

  • Guest

    That looks like Voldemort. And unless He Who Shall Not Be Named can survive outside my body, then it’s still a part of my body and my choice.

  • fastaire

    They are not doing more harm than good passing out these things. Get a grip buddy. Talk about being a drama queen. Oh oh oh coodies coodies get that away from me!! That’s what you sound like with this post. Go have a few beers and reflect on your inanity.

  • Marcus

    @ Rob Port,

    Rob quote: “Dear Pro-Lifers: Can You Stop Being A Bunch Of Weirdos?”

    Intense Pro-Choicers and Pro-Lifers are kinda like tail-gaters on a busy high speed highway.

    They push push push until someone makes a mistake or resorts to road rage…, and the people around them end up paying the price for their stupidity.

  • J_Enigma32

    Actually, from a scientific perspective, life began *before* conception. Both the sperm cell and the ovum were alive.

    Of course, the debate isn’t about life. It’s about human life, and there’s no scientific definition for that since “human” is a scientifically meaningless term invented by legal philosophers, just like the word “person.” For proof, take a look at how long it took for the status of “person” to be awarded to African slaves. There are individuals (I’m actually one of them) trying to expand the definition of “personhood” to cetaceans and the great apes, making them de facto “humans” as well.

    As far as H.s. sapiens life, well, here’s a task for you: define a fetus in such a way that it excludes other organs in the body. 46 chromosomes, living, and functioning? That’s a liver. That’s a colon. That’s an appendix. And if 46 is all the requirement to being human, how do you define human chimeras, or individuals with Down’s syndrome, who lack chromosomes? Can function autonomously, without any other intervening processes? The fetus can only do that around the 24th week, when viability is 40-70%; it’s not really until the 34th week that you have a greater than 98% chance of viability; so really, if you’re going by pure statistics, the cut off point is 34 weeks. Below that and you’re not looking at a viable fetus; you’re looking at something that’s no different from any other organ in the body. And being no different, why treat it any differently? You wouldn’t attempt to tell someone they couldn’t have their appendix removed, why attempt to tell someone they can’t get a fetus removed?

Top