Say Anything Blog

Probably the idiot school administration forced her to.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

If I were of native American decent, I would be proud of a University thinking so high of my culture. ..I’d take it as a compliment to my culture.

This “insensitivity to Native Americans” line because of the UND nickname is a bunch of hog-wash.  My wife is a member of a Sioux tribe, and she is Ok with it.  Most members of the Sioux tribes are OK with it. 

I think that the Sioux tribal leaders are against the name because they see how the Seminole tribe in Florida gets money from Florida State and want something like that for the name.  It isn’t about respect, it’s about money.  I believe that if a large donation made it’s way to a Sioux Tribe, they would suddenly have a change of heart about the nickname.

Being 1/4 Norwegian, I am personally offended by the Vikings moniker and logo.  It’s outrageous!  I bet they think we all eat lutefisk and lefse too.

Here in Illinois the local outrage has concerned the University of Illinois’ moniker - the Illini. The Illini
were a local indian tribe that was wiped out by other local peaceful tribes, those tribes are now protesting the use of the name of a tribe that their forefathers massacred. Irony is often lost on the dullards.

those tribes are now protesting the use of the name of a tribe that their forefathers massacred.

Because they don’t want to be reminded of their perfidy?  They hate the idea that you’re honoring the fallen warriors?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Do you think the racist athletic director bothered to actually talk to members of the tribes? 

I doubt it but for a shortcut she could read this post here:

But Archie Fool Bear, chair of the Standing Rock judicial committee, says his tribe’s leadership doesn’t represent the vast majority of tribal members.

Fool Bear himself voted for such a resolution in 2005. “They told us just negative things—that UND was a racist place,” he explains. Now, he says, he believes that he and others were fed a bill of goods.

“When I went around to my constituents on the reservation,” says Fool Bear, “a majority of people said, ‘Why can’t we vote on it?’ “Most tribal members would support the name if they got the chance,” adds Joe White Mountain, another committee member.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

This “insensitivity to Native Americans” line because of the UND nickname is a bunch of hog-wash.  My wife is a member of a Sioux tribe, and she is Ok with it.  Most members of the Sioux tribes are OK with it. 

According to left wingers if even a small number of people offended by fighting Sioux name, the name should be changed. Personally I think we shoud whoop the crap out of Dartmouth University and vow to take these EZAC clowns off the schedule in the future. I think personally we gain nothing by pounding them into the ice. All it does is kill our PWR ranking.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

This is ridiculous.....thank heavens that Ralph was smart enough to see this advancing political correctness agenda, and put a logo and name change clause into the World’s Nicest hockey arena contract. The fact of the matter is the name is not going to be changed, so libs should stop whining!

P. J. O’Rourke nailed this one years ago when he brought up Notre Dame. Their mascot? A bellgerent (and, presumably, drunken) leprechaun, representing “The Fighting Irish.” When the PC crowd starts sticking up for the Paddies, then I’ll give them a little more credibility.

J.

I’m of Irish descent, and the Notre Dame mascot doesn’t bother me, but the Native-Americans being used as mascots is demeaning.  I’m sorry, but they deserve respect, not to be depicted like that.  You don’t see anyone using a black man with the team name:  The Mighty Slaves!

the Native-Americans being used as mascots is demeaning.  I’m sorry, but they deserve respect, not to be depicted like that.  You don’t see anyone using a black man with the team name:  The Mighty Slaves!

How is the “Fighting Sioux” nickname/logo in any way comparable to “The Mighty Slaves?” The Sioux nickname is a positive representation, the slaves nickname is negative.

You’re making an absurd comparison.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The Sioux name is a positive representation?  A cartoon drawing of a Sioux warrior on someone’s helmet or T-shirt or bumper sticker is a positive thing?  It makes them out to be a big fat joke; a “funny” thing, like “look at them filthy heathen injuns run,” or something.

The Sioux name is a positive representation?  A cartoon drawing of a Sioux warrior on someone’s helmet or T-shirt or bumper sticker is a positive thing?

Yes, it is.  Why would a college name themselves after something they don’t respect?

If the Fighting Irish or Minnesota Vikings aren’t demeaning then neither is the Sioux logo.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The Notre Dame dude IS demeaning, but it doesn’t bother me personally.  The use of Native-Americans as team mascots IS demeaning, and it does bother me, considering what all the “white man” did to the Native-Americans, depicting them that way is a final slap in the face.  Did you know that the 2nd official Thanksgiving Day was a celebration of having beaten the “Indians”?  Why not use an animal symbol or an inanimate object?

It would be demeaning if it were a negative depiction.  It’s not a negative depiction, so it isn’t demeaning.

Honestly, this isn’t rocket science.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I’m a dartmouth graduate (’65), and I’m appalled (offended?) by our athletic director’s letter.  I just wanted to add a few more facts to the case.

every year, dartmouth engages in numerous athletic contests with a) its fellow ivy league school, the pennsylvania quakers (wouldn’t “society of friends” be more appropriate in the eyes of the PC crowd?), and b) the holy cross crusaders.  I can’t believe that dartmouth has no muslim students; wouldn’t they be terminally “offended” by this evocation of such a recent (in their timeframe) offense against the caliphate?

Just because you claim something is demeaning doesn’t make it so.  A lot of people say junior high was demeaning: should that be banned?

Compare UND against Florida State: they both have logos, UND has the word fighting in their nickname, FSU does not.  UND does NOT have a mascot, FSU has a white guy dressed in war paint running around leading indian chants for the sake of a football game...... So FSU gets a pass for actually having a cariacture of mascot and UND gets hit for the word fighting.

Compare against Notre Dame; they both have the words “The Fighting “ before the name of an identifiable minority in society.  Yet somehow UND is wrong and Notre Dame is okay? 

You can’t cherry pick what you think is an easy win for the sake of sounding egaltarian to your friends: if you going to fight for “injustice” then apply yourself uniformly or else ask yourself why you are doing it.  The issue of the week types just want something to feel good about for this week in telling someone else what to do.

If it is one’s opinion that something is not demeaning, that doesn’t mean that it is not demeaning.  Using Native-American images and names as mascots is a mockery of them.  Step outside of your “PC” paranoia, be open-minded and really think about it; it’s a shame.  It’s not about rocket science; rather, about compassion and decency.

Since I am not a member of the Sioux tribe, or even Native American, I myself have a hard time telling an entire group of people that they should not be offended simply because it is not our intention to be defamatory. But the opposite can then be said to Ms. Harper. Who is she to tell an entire group of people that they should in fact be offended? Has she spoken with anyone from the Sioux tribe? While I don’t feel its my place to say whether the nickname should stay or go, it is definitely none of her business either way. This is not my battle, nor is it hers.

Well, honestly, there are over 7 sioux tribes. You are telling me each one and person was asked?

I am lakota, and I am offended. Not because of the logo itself but because the reactions they create. People say it’s out of honoring. That’s not true. If you want to honor us, learn about our people, learn our history, learn about the treaties that were broken, help our people on the reservation. My people (who you all call Sioux, a name given to us by White people) fought for their lives, for survival, fought the white people so we could hold onto our lives and culture. And now they want to give us an image of a Native Warrior so white people and natives can be proud when their teams “massacre” the opposing team like let’s say Dartmouth. Have you ever been to a reservation team vs. a white team basketball game, do you hear the cheers from the white school “beat those indians (snicker) beat those indians (snicker)” or do you know what it feels like to have this “native tribe” your honoring have the opposite team create images of it getting trampled on, getting a blow job?” Do you know that creates ignorance, as it is, if you are from an area with no natives, it creates a stereotype that people will follow, and trust me, they do. We should be able to represent ourselves. Don’t honor us through your team mascot as being great warriors. You will never understand what it was like. Sure it may UND isn’t like that. But everywhere else, schools played, they don’t. Then it becomes a thing out of spite. When you are around it for 19 years of your life, trust me, you will see how it matters.

thank you Ina

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

No matter what it is, there are always going to be people out there who find certain things offensive.

Reasonable people can make determinations as to what is and is not offensive, and reasonable people conclude that there is nothing offensive about the Sioux nickname.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Ina: It’s sports; get over yourself.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

yea...but when people are wrong? then what? read those comments above carefully. If you don’t see it now, then you probably won’t see it ever. (like those people who saw slavery okay, seriously because it was their way of life, and no one likes to be told their way of life is wrong)

“are the people making those claims a bunch of culturally-blinkered twits using this trumped-up “controversy” as a way to make themselves appear important and socially aware?

I think the latter is obviously true, for all the reasons I laid out above. “

that sounds pretty ignorant to me...the lack of education shows through so easily through some of the comments…

reasonable people? you mean western cultured people? Don’t shove western views on everyone. Everyone is offended, but some can be stopped. Your telling me ina shouldn’t be okay with it. I think she gave on good arguement.

if you can make statements like you have, then the Native American people can to.
I think they are reasonable and those who oppose are not, because they are too stubborn to change or see or care how those people feel.

thank you d_p_f

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

dpf: Please explain the nobility of the genocidal hatred between the Blackfeet and the Souix.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Sorry; that should be “Sioux”.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

[quoted] pf: Please explain the nobility of the genocidal hatred between the Blackfeet and the Souix.

pretty sure non of us were responsible for that.
That is also ridculous.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Oh no, a straw man argument, 108bot?

That is so beneath you. You should be embarrassed.

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

I guess it went over your heads, but I was making a counter comment to the antiAmerican propaganda of the previous commenter.  We always hear about how evil “white people” are, and it’s good to put a few facts in there about the true nature and behavior of the “Native Americans”.  Sorry it upset you PC lefties.  I love to expose the “noble red man” myth with some facts.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

INA and DPF:

Both UND and Sports Illustrated commissioned survey’s of the indian population.  UND’s concerned indian’s in the state.

Both found strong support among the tribes for the Sioux name.  Do you think that your views are more important than another indian’s?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

by the way…
i really do mean it when i say i’m sorry if i offended any white people...cuz i know it isn’t everyone...i know racist blacks, racist natives, all of it…

i just think it all needs to stop with this…

you would never find someone holdin a mascot of Jesus cuz he was Almighty, nor of a black, or any other race...(don’t give me the notre dame unless you got something more to say than previously mentioned) i think holy cross is bad too

so why natives? it’s their way of life isn’t it? their culture? their religion? idk

who said i was native? but i’m not white either…
either way…

i think we know how natives fought each other...but i think what the europeans did was slightly different...i mean i doubt it was because of the Blackfeet they have their current conditions.

And i lived on a rez with native americans though, most i knew didn’t approve...and you must consider what natives were asked, were they apples? were the ppl pleasers? i never trust what polls or what people come out with...which natives from what area? i want to see this poll (seriously)...you know all tribes are different, especially urban vs. navajos. alaskins, cherokees, then you have your rez type, the eastern borders, then you have the tribes with corrupted tribal councils because they are based on family ties...so be more clear...plus there are only two sioux tribes really in ND they are more in south dakota, nebraska, and i think minnesota...were they polled too?

and yes...correct yourself it’s sioux...but more importantly dakota,lakota,nakota...i mean you should know right?

look at this way...it’s not just sports...it’s racism...when the opposing team does stuff like that...dang, robert108, you prob said stuff didn’t you?
i can’t believe you even made that comment…

and i’m not a pc either...what does that even mean or matter...quit usin’ those words and start talkin’ about what you mean! and all whites aren’t evil...but some have done horrible stuff...but hey let’s ignore the effects they had on slaves and natives in america. let’s forget how now ppl of races are being assimulated into western culture...even the europeans are getting assimulated…
it’s not like all whites are bad...but they are many out there

damn, i write too much… but i took courses in sociology and we looked into cultures and religions...so go ahead and argue..but i know my facts too
i guess i just responded to everyone...(this one was supposed to go b4 my last message)messed up order

d_p_f:  I often think of my heritage which consists of Scandinavian and Irish in addition to others.  Certainly the Irish were very poorly treated but people of Irish heritage like the Notre Dame Logo.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

so why natives?

Admiration.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

then that’s you guys...why should the natives accept it? because the irish do? wasn’t notre originally meant for irish catholics (i could be totally wrong) at one time? i really do think the situations are different...way different...they are still livin’ with the affects today...they only gained rights like in the 70’s

why should the natives accept it? because the irish do?

You don’t have to accept it.  Maybe there are Irish people out there ticked off at Notre Dame, I don’t know, but the point is that it isn’t fair to force a university to change logo and nickname it has used for decades just because a small number of people are offended by it.

Also, in order for the UND logo to be actually racist of offensive it must have been intended to be racist, offensive, demeaning, whatever.  You cannot convince me that the University of ND picked the Sioux logo/nickname in order to insult Indians.  You just can’t.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

if you admire them...then why do you fight with the ones who oppose…

why are all your comments so cynnical and sarcastic?
i won’t lie, i don’t think it’s admiration…

i think it’s cuz people are too stubborn for change especially to a minority group...hate to say it..but that’s institutional racism…

unconcious, may not know it…

this is why i hate speakin’ cuz sometimes the truth hurts…
but then again “it’s just sports"…

No one has a sports team nickname for any other reason than admiration.  I thought that was obvious. It is your agenda to use the race card to advance your special interests.  I think that is the epitome of being cynical.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

You cannot convince me that the University of ND picked the Sioux logo/nickname in order to insult Indians.  You just can’t.

Can’t pull one past Rob.  He knows that back in the 30’s that the tribal leaders asked the University to use the Sioux name as the identity of their athletic teams.

..then why do you fight with the ones who oppose…

A more better question would be why do you fight the majority that are in favor.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

sorry, it’s not obvious

the opposing team was called the Bison,

the sioux killed bison…

my high was neither named for that reason either...they only changed it later becuz they have never wanted to lose the mascot to begin with…

i don’t use the race card either...i’ve not that many racists...but from my classes i’ve learned and have seen it…
if you don’t think it’s that common, then you are naive
i’m not saying they are racist...it’s institutional..wonder why there are no other races still in the presidency, why minorities and women are still lower in the social ladder?

we’re never going to agree, i will always stand by what i believe, and obviously you will never change either
but i will always, never be convinced otherwise...so quit with your admirational, just sports, pc, tactics on me…

"A more better question would be why do you fight the majority that are in favor. “

because it’s against what i believe...when has the majority always been right…

meet you at the crossroads

but from my classes i’ve learned

Umm, I don’t want to be mean, but I don’t really give a rat’s behind what your teacher told you.  If you want to discuss what you know that’s all fine and good.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

still no one has answered me...the biggest sioux reservation is pine ridge...and all of south dakota has some? were they polled? i don’t remember which tribes were polled, can someone show me or tell me where this link is/
tribes are broken down in states like “american” government, they are sovereign nations...so being they are state doesn’t matter at all…
and how were they polled?

phone? computers?
door to door?
ballot box?

oh sorry, and personal experience too…

does that make it better? sorry, all this education must be wrong…

why do you all give me statistics, then i pull some up then suddenly you don’t give a rat’s ass…

damn...just give up those pointless comments...keep it to the point and sorry, i didn’t realize how much that statement was going to piss you off

Who says we’re pissed off.  We’re not here because we dislike debate.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

..wonder why there are no other races still in the presidency…

This may come as a shock to you, but “white people” are in the majority in this country, which is why other groups are called “minority” groups.
BTW, there are many upper-level people of color in this country, and many poor “white people”, because our country is a meritocracy.  Social status is not based on some hereditary classes which are leftovers from a tribal past.  There are many minorities who have achieved in show business, for instance.  There are many upper level movie stars and musicians, for example.  There are also minority entrepreneurs and politicians.  Your analysis is flawed.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Who says we’re pissed off.

Sounds like projection to me.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

I think you’re right Robert.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

This may come as a shock to you, but “white people” are in the majority in this country, which is why other groups are called “minority” groups.
BTW, there are many upper-level people of color in this country, and many poor “white people”, because our country is a meritocracy.  Social status is not based on some hereditary classes which are leftovers from a tribal past.  There are many minorities who have achieved in show business, for instance.  There are many upper level movie stars and musicians, for example.  There are also minority entrepreneurs and politicians.  Your analysis is flawed.

Pretty sure that we are a democracy.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Pretty sure that we are a democracy.

Snarky, but ultimately wrong.  The U.S. is a republic.  The founders feared democracy and mob rule more than they did monarchy.

Pretty sure that we are a democracy.

Inaccurate and irrelevant.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Thank you Nikki & Ina; relieved that someone has some common sense.  Being of Irish descent, yes, the Notre Dame mascot offends me - not all Irish are hot-tempered little drunks - but it doesn’t bother me that much.  The use of Native-American names & images does bother me greatly; it’s insensitive, it makes fun of them, and no way were they chosen as a sign of admiration or to honor them.

Thank you Nikki & Ina; relieved that someone has some common sense.

“Common sense” must mean being offended over stupid shit.

Get a life.

okay, so i didn’t piss you off...you didn’t need to write like 5 irrevelant comments on it…

either way, minority does not just mean numbers...why wouldn’t those people elect minorities then? the white majority is not that big...it is also more to it…

“Institutional racism or systemic racism describes forms of racism which are structured into political and social institutions. It occurs when organisations, institutions or governments discriminate, either deliberately or indirectly, against certain groups of people to limit their rights.

This form of racism reflects the cultural assumptions of the dominant group, so that the practices of that group are seen as the norm to which other cultural practices should conform. It regularly and systematically advantages some ethnic and cultural groups and disadvantages and marginalises others.

Institutional racism is often the most difficult to recognise and counter, particularly when it is perpetrated by institutions and governments who do not view themselves as racist. When present in a range of social contexts, this form of racism reinforces the disadvantage already experienced by some members of the community. For example, racism experienced by students at school may result in early school dropout and lower educational outcomes. Together with discrimination in employment, this may lead to fewer employment opportunities and higher levels of unemployment for these students when they leave school. In turn, lower income levels combined with discrimination in the provision of goods and services restrict access to housing, health care and life opportunities generally. In this way, institutional racism may be particularly damaging for minority groups and further restrict their access to services and participation in society. “

“Common sense” must mean being offended over stupid shit.

Get a life.

You need a life, you really think this will scare them into not speaking...quit trying to shut them up...i’m sure they have meaningful lives that don’t revolve around this, (as do i) Grow up and quit using stupid statements like those...Just because their views are similar to yours

and the analysis is not flawed, they are successful, but how many aren’t...yes there are poor white (like i didn’t know that, come on, use your common sense) but the majority of non-whites live that way, which also creates a socioeconomic discrimination as well…

you know, those people made it because they tried and had the means to be pushed, elsewhere those others tried, but things are a lot harder especially where you come from

it’s not just a mascot...look at the reactions it’s creating…

look at comments like these Thank you Nikki & Ina; relieved that someone has some common sense.

“Common sense” must mean being offended over stupid shit.

it’s people like this one here that this stuff needs to stop, because believe or not. there are racists out there who would use it against people…

like i said, i don’t think we will ever see it the same way

it’s people like this one here that this stuff needs to stop, because believe or not. there are racists out there who would use it against people…

like i said, i don’t think we will ever see it the same way

No what needs to stop is ignorant people using the “racism” excuse in order to deflect attention from the real problems that certain minorities are experiencing.

Making excuses harms another generation of those you claim you want to help.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

minority does not just mean numbers

That’s exactly what it means.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Minority group
used to describe any group of people which is disadvantaged, underprivileged, excluded, discriminated against or exploited. Sociologically, the concept does not refer to demographic numbers but to subordinate status in society. (Racism. Stop it! Action 2000, Canada 1999)

d_p_f spits out, You need a life, you really think this will scare them into not speaking...quit trying to shut them up...

Scare who again? Shut up who again? What are you talking about? I must have missed it. You don’t speak very well and it is quite possible that I missed your explanation as to how I was trying to shut someone up or scare them.

it’s not just a mascot...look at the reactions it’s creating…

Get out the fainting couch, someone is offended!

it’s people like this one here that this stuff needs to stop, because believe or not. there are racists out there who would use it against people…

I need to do what and believe what?

So you’re offended by the “Fighting Sioux” logo and you’re afraid of some racist out there using it against you. Would you like a tissue to dry those eyes? *sniff* It’s all so upsetting.

Minority group
used to describe any group of people which is disadvantaged, underprivileged, excluded, discriminated against or exploited. Sociologically, the concept does not refer to demographic numbers but to subordinate status in society. (Racism. Stop it! Action 2000, Canada 1999)

Obviously a politically agendized definition from a socialist country.

Here’s the definition from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: mi·nor·i·ty
Pronunciation: m&-’nor-&-tE, mI-, -’när-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Usage: often attributive
1 a : the period before attainment of majority b : the state of being a legal minor
2 : the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole; specifically : a group having less than the number of votes necessary for control
3 a : a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment b : a member of a minority group

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

2 : the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole; specifically : a group having less than the number of votes necessary for control

so we determine what a minority is by how they vote? no. otherwise r108 would be a of a ‘minority’ group. in the big city near me, lots of minorities don’t vote much at all.
i think you are looking for definition 3a.

Actually, definition 3a is the politically-agendized one.  Definition 2a is the original meaning of “minority”, which was my point.  In general, it means a smaller number than the majority.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.