Say Anything Blog

Looks awful, but contrast that with how they treat our prisoners.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Oh, good. A training film to teach terrorists what to prepare to resist. Good thinking, media. AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Whistler,

It sucks to be an illegal combatant who has been captured by a nation willing to enforce the customary laws of warfare.  This is as it should be.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

That’s it !?! That’s all there is to it!?!

Egads, what a buch of noise over nothing.

Pilgrim, that’s algore TV

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Pil, preperation makes no difference. And as I have pointed out before, if they truly seek martyrdom all they have to do is inhale. Then, they can be revived and do it again. This would crush their will faster than anything else. Demonstrate to them that they can only have death if we give it to them.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Finally got it to run. That is not waterboarding. I have been boarded and that was not it. You don’t put a rag in the mouth, don’t hold hand over mouth either. You take a towel or t-shirt and cover the entire face, then pour water directly over mouth and nose. You also do not yell or scream, calm and quiet is far more un-nerving.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2H9...I thought the way they were doing it looked a little odd.

I’ve read from “experts” on interrogation that the best way to get information out of someone is to disorient them, as opposed to hurting them.  .

Make them uncomfortable or scared long enough, and they’ll talk.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

2H9,

...That is not waterboarding. I have been boarded and that was not it.

SERE?

Out Here
Rodney Grves

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney,

Is your avatar a picture of John Brown?

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Yes indeed, Rod. Twice, second time I got jetplaned instead of boarded.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Who did that to you Hotel?

US Army Infantry School, and Inter-Divisional Long Range Patrol Course, Ft. Polk.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Damn. I’m a good shot, but never had any military training - I know the breathing techniques and can hit a quarter from a goddamn long way away with my .223

Sparkie:

I know the breathing techniques and can hit a quarter from a goddamn long way away with my .223

Hm… Was the quarter armed at the time?

Que?

Damned guerilla pocket change! I ping bottle caps at 100 meters on open sights, and hit pretty much anything within effective range with a scope. I average 98 of 100 with .303 SMLE I hunt with, 100 of with 7.62 NATO Garand, 94 of 100 with 9mm Walther P-1 out to 60 meters. Go .30 and you won’t go back.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

my dictionary says “to torture” means “to bring great physical or mental pain upon another.” hard to see how this treatment is anything other than torture.

contrast that with how they treat our prisoners

not sure i follow the logic.  if they do it to their prisoners, then that somehow makes it ok to do it to ours?  if they behave inexcusably, then we can too?

keep in mind that prisoners have been released from gitmo after years of detention, having been charged with nothing.  people like to make it so simple and say, “these guys are terrorists, so anything we do to them is ok.” the reality is, these guys are suspects.  what about the huge fraction of them that have done nothing wrong, and were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

we’ve already destroyed so many more lives in this “war on terror” than we lost on our soil.  even Bush himself estimates at least 30,000 iraqi civilians killed.  my god, is that worth it?  is it worth torturing people, people who haven’t even had a fair trial (or any trial at all for that matter), to get information that is almost completely unreliable?

le_sacre: The prisoners have a choice; they can just tell us what we want to know; if they don’t do that, they are creating a situation where we will do whatever we need to do until they choose to tell us.  Where and when it stops is up to them.
Torture is the gratuitous infliction of pain/injury.  Getting intel isn’t gratuitous; it is for a purpose.  When they torture our soldiers, it is for in gratuitous infliction of pain.  Big difference.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

You guys really miss it when you justify by using comparison.  Remember this is always a way better or worse.

For instance we call suicide bombers cowards correct?
Well killing from a drone might be considered the same thing because the person is somewhere safe and away from the action and not meeting their enemy face to face.

However, we call it an advantage of technology wouldn’t you agree?

Remember too that this is nothing more than a RE-ENACTMENT.
Kinda like someone who approves of RAPE and doing so in a controlled fashion to make it not look as horrifying as it may be for a woman.

If we keep justifying we are only giving a green light for worse to be done to our soldiers.

Even worse it will soon hit local jurisdictions.
You know where for years police got confessions not because the person actually committed the crime but because the interrogation was too much for the person to handle.

Old saying… Watch what you ask for. YOU just might get it.

The prisoners have a choice; they can just tell us what we want to know;

What if they don’t know anything?

Would we even believe them?

I don’t understand why it was torture when the Japanese did it, and torture when the Khmer Rouge did it, and not torture when we do it.

an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind

if we do what the terroists do that makes us just as bad as them.

and of course, any one with even the slightly degree of sence can see that we’re much much worse

Nothing: I said waterboarding was not torture; I didn’t say it was not torture when we do it.  You made that up all by yourself.
BTW, no intel officer wastes his time with subjects who have no information; there are many methods of making that determination that don’t involve anything coercive at all. Duh.

joel: Your position might have some credence if we strapped bombs on children, beheaded people on video or launched thousands of ball-bearing warhead rockets into civilian areas, but we don’t, so your position is meaningless.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

Looks like America is content to join the proud ranks of terrorists, nazis, and communists.  Not doing this sort of stuff is what was supposed to make America different and better than the Nazis.  With Bush (whose grandfather was a banker for the Nazis) we seem almost predictably to be moving closer towards the dark side, not setting a shining example for the world.

Personally, I believe the answer to fear is COURAGE—not getting in the gutter with these types because you are frightened.  And not eroding our basic civil rights because some are squeamish and have watched too many TV terror plots and think this stuff actually works (the FBI says it does not work as well as their interrogation techniques that in no way involves such practices).

And as for me, given the choice between an Executive Branch with the power to label any of us terrorists and subject any of us to such torture now without checks and balances, and the miniscule chance of being hit by a foreign terror attack, I’ll take my chances with the foreign terrorists GLADLY.  If you think these practices makes you any safer overall, you might want to ask the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, political dissenters, epileptics, “shiftless”, “feebleminded”, unemployed, untermenschen and others persecuted in Nazi Germany - if it made them any safer.

Bill: If you will kindly move to France, you will undoubtedly get your wish.  Just take a walk through the Muslim suburbs.  Your pathetic and dishonest attempt to make equivalence with the terrorists is just wrong.  One example is that you can spew your toxic filth on this blog with no fear of retribution.  Try it in a Muslim country.  I dare you!  Go to Iran and speak out against Mahmoud, or to Venezuela and speak against Hugo.  If you’re still alive and intact, go to Nork and speak out against Kim Jong.  Let us know how it all works out.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

i’ve seen worse behavior in american prisons.men beaten with flashlights,and maced until they told who they got their contraband(cigerettes)from!waterboarding is a walk in the park.if it saves american lives,i say do it to it!

Torture is the gratuitous infliction of pain/injury.

i have not seen the word “gratuitous” in ANY definition of torture anywhere.  where’d you get that from?  because it kind of sounds like you’re changing the commonly-accepted definition of torture in order to make sure the U.S. isn’t doing it.

no intel officer wastes his time with subjects who have no information; there are many methods of making that determination that don’t involve anything coercive at all.

what are these methods?  as far as i can recall, intelligence experts have testified that information obtained under coercion is practically useless, because the detainee will say anything they can think of to escape the painful situation.

for example, published 11/25/05 in the guardian (guardian.co.uk story: )

Internal reviews by the CIA have raised questions about the treatment and credibility of the two men. The New York Times said one review, completed in spring last year by the CIA inspector general, found that in the first months after his capture Mr Mohammed had suffered excessive use of “waterboarding”, a technique involving near drowning which entails the detainee being strapped to a board and then submerged.

They just don’t seem to understand.

Terrorists are, under the customary laws of warfare, illegal combatants, and being an illegal combatant is a war crime under those same customary laws of warfare punishable by death.  Once a determination is made that a detainee is an illegal combatant (via military tribunal as per Geneva III as reinforced by recent legislation in the United States), they lose all the protections of the customary laws of warfare and are also no longer under the protections of Westrn Civilization.  The fact that we afford such war criminals a further tribunal for consideration of war crimes is a magnanamous gesture on our part.

As to the questioning, were they legal combatants, they would be shielded even from the coercive interrogations folks here are bemoaning.

The captured terrorists are suffering the consequences of their actions, which is as it should be.  As soon as such vigorous interrogation methods are no longer allowed, we will need to proceed directly from the Combatant Status Review Tribunal to the scaffold.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

To go further than that if we can’t question them I don’t see any need to take them prisoner.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

One more once, under the Geneva Conventions(all of them) terrorists fall squarely under the category Brigands/Bandits. The only rights they are afforded under the International Laws of Warfare are a swift, immediate execution upon the feild they are taken.

So, America is violating the Geneva Conventions. We have taken prisoner Brigands/Bandits when INTERNATIONAL LAW requires that we kill them immediately upon capture.
BAD Americans, BAD!!!!!

Now, how do you Democrat fuckbags justifiy not killing terrorists? This shit ought to be real entertaining.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

le_sacre,

It appears that Brian Ross of ABC News is a good deal better informed on the subject than the Guardian reporters.

When properly used, the techniques appear to be closely monitored and are signed off on in writing on a case-by-case, technique-by-technique basis, according to highly placed current and former intelligence officers involved in the program. In this way, they say, enhanced interrogations have been authorized for about a dozen high value al Qaeda targets — Khalid Sheik Mohammed among them. According to the sources, all of these have confessed, none of them has died, and all of them remain incarcerated.

While some media accounts have described the locations where these detainees are located as a string of secret CIA prisons — a gulag, as it were — in fact, sources say, there are a very limited number of these locations in use at any time, and most often they consist of a secure building on an existing or former military base. In addition, they say, the prisoners usually are not scattered but travel together to these locations, so that information can be extracted from one and compared with others. Currently, it is believed that one or more former Soviet bloc air bases and military installations are the Eastern European location of the top suspects. Khalid Sheik Mohammed is among the suspects detained there, sources said.

The sources told ABC that the techniques, while progressively aggressive, are not deemed torture, and the debate among intelligence officers as to whether they are effective should not be underestimated. There are many who feel these techniques, properly supervised, are both valid and necessary, the sources said. While harsh, they say, they are not torture and are reserved only for the most important and most difficult prisoners.

According to the sources, when an interrogator wishes to use a particular technique on a prisoner, the policy at the CIA is that each step of the interrogation process must be signed off at the highest level — by the deputy director for operations for the CIA.

Further in the same article,
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866&page=1
ABC notes the unconfirmed report that one detainee died while in CIA custody and that another may also have died while held by the US military.  But those reports are again unconfirmed.  And besides, so what?  This is, after all, a war.  And as Rodney has pointed out above, non-uniformed combatants are, by international law, entitled nothing more than a nearby scaffold or one final bullet.

Come on, Bravo1! I would be more than happy to take any of these leftard idiots and introduce them to low level interogation. They would not make it through US Army Basic Training, much less SERE.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9,

Interrogation resistance training is the sort of thing you look back on with a combination of pride and horror.  I might be reluctant to do it again… especially today and at my age.  but I will never forget the lesson i learned, the primary of which is that you CAN survive.

The problem isn’t that the leftards, as you so kindly put it, could not survive even basic training.  The problem is that they refuse to recognize the basic reality of a wartime situation or what that situation entails.

Yep! They do not accept that we are at war with an enemy who continues to scream their intention to not only destroy our country, but to destroy our entire culture. Starting with them, leftards. They are the very thing that Wahabi Deathculters hate the most.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Bat: Thanks for the edification.  The scarediecat leftie lie is that we are waterboarding anybody and everybody, and of course that would be a waste of time for us.  A good intel officer is worth his weight in gold, for a number of reasons.  One of those is that he knows the right amount of force to apply, and for how long, to get the best results in the shortest amount of time.  Lefties just think everyone in the military is a drooling savage, but they think the terrorists are misunderstood rebels.  Good Grief!
The leftie mindset hasn’t changed over the years; just watch Dr Strangelove sometime.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

what are these methods? That’s on a “need to know” basis, and you have no need to know. as far as i can recall, intelligence experts have testified that information obtained under coercion is practically useless, because the detainee will say anything they can think of to escape the painful situation.If you want to believe that, in spite of all the good intel we have gotten by coercive methods, then go ahead.  They wouldn’t tell you anyway, because the whole area is highly classified.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

Robert108,

I assume, rightly I believe, that those charged with conducting the interrogations know what they are doing and how best to go about it.  I worry a good deal more about the prospect of Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House and third in line for the Presidency, or that idiot Harry Reid running the Senate, than I do water-boarding terrorist detainees.

Fact is, if we didn’t need the intelligence we could just line them up and shoot them and be done with it.

And that goes for the terrorist detainees, too!  //sarcasm//

I’ve read through this often thoughtful discussion. Most of the problematic statements were soon corrected.

There is one exception. Someone stated that persons such as the “enemy combatants” designated by Bush were treated by the Geneva Conventions as Brigands/Bandits. There is no such category in the Geneva Conventions. The following quote is the portion of the Conventions that most concerned the U.S. Supreme Court. There’s a link to the whole thing following the quote, but here is part of Common Article III. This is the part that the Supreme Court says applies to the enemy combatants held at Guantanamo.

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

“No active part in the hostilities” means just that. People handed over to us by rival tribes in Afghanistan, who told us they were Al Qaeda (perhaps because they spoke Arabic or another foreign language) are not, until there is direct evidence, people taking an active part in hostilities. Many of the prisoners at Guantanamo, a portion of them already released, have been recognized to fall in this category.

We clearly, as the Supreme Court said, need to have good judicial process to recognize when there is evidence that shows prisoners *were* on the battlefield with guns in their hands, and when they just got rounded up and handed in for a bounty. Many of the JAGs are concerned about good compliance with the Geneva Conventions.

The concerns raised by waterboarding of a few “high-value” targets by trained CIA operatives acting under separate orders every step of the way (Brian Ross, ABC News) do not stop at whether they tell us something. We should also be concerned, as citizens, that the executive branch (the CIA) has taken on judicial functions, that these prisoners have little hope of a trial, that they have no access to the Red Cross, that perhaps we actually found or had handed to us some people with “high-value” information, that we could also have gotten without using waterboarding. This last, that many psychologists familiar with interrogation methods will tell you, is the shame of it all. We could have gotten the information without the use of waterboarding and other “enhanced techniques.”

Here is the link to the Geneva Conventions Common Article 3. You can read more about these topics at Undoing Denial.

So, your entire post is a come on to get people to go to your blog. Very cute. Terrorists are not innocent waifs being abused by the Evil Americans, they are Brigand/Bandits, and Article 3 does not afford them any protection whatsoever. And your assertion that all we have to do talk to them and understand their terrible childhood or whatever crap you you are trying to peddle is just that, crap. Now toddle on back to Daily Kos or DU or where ever your trail of slime leads back to.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Oh, and D2, I don’t need a lying scumbag such as Brian Ross to tell me anything.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

D2: Non-uniformed combatants who are not members of any national army are designated “illegal combatants” under the GC, and are entitled to no more than a bullet in the head immediately upon capture.  We have been more humane than that to them, and I hope we don’t come to regret that fact.  It is well known that the terrorist scum are fighting us as much in the media as they are on the battlefield, and this has to be factored into any news reports we might read.  Our news agencies have been shown to pass this material from the terrorists on without review or criticism.  You have undoubtedly been duped by this practice.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

dr2 opines:

...Someone stated that persons such as the “enemy combatants” designated by Bush were treated by the Geneva Conventions as Brigands/Bandits. There is no such category in the Geneva Conventions.

The “dr” is partially correct here, in that Geneva III makes no mention of Brigands and Bandits.  The customary laws of warfare do, however, recognize the terms, and have traditionally punished Brigands and Bandits by summary execution.

The more appropriate term is illegal combatant, where Geneva III describes at great lengths in Article 4 legal combatants entitled to the protections of a Prisoner of War.  Article 5 then describes the means for determining who is, and is not, subject to the protections of the Convention per the standards of Article 4.

This is the part [of Common Article III] that the Supreme Court says applies to the enemy combatants held at Guantanamo.(quote deleted)

Common Article III was primarily intended for situations of purely domestic armed rebellion or insurgency, which is emphatically not the case in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Nor does CA3 pertain to the terrorists making war in contravention of the customary laws of warfare.

“No active part in the hostilities” means just that.

When war is waged by a Non Governmental Organization, the following activities also constitute active participation on the part of the NGO and its members:

Gathering and Analysis of Intelligence
Planning and Organizing hostile acts
Procuring and dispensing arms for offensive use
Recruiting and Training combatants
Raising, holding, and disbursing funds used in furtherance of hostile acts

All of which acts are no less active hostilities than actually bearing arms, though such activity is harder to detect.

People handed over to us by rival tribes in Afghanistan, who told us they were Al Qaeda (perhaps because they spoke Arabic or another foreign language) are not, until there is direct evidence, people taking an active part in hostilities.

The claims of a third party do not rise to the level of proof, but are sufficient probable cause for detention and status determination.  An admission of membership in the combatant NGO is sufficient for a determination of status as an illegal combatant.

Many of the prisoners at Guantanamo, a portion of them already released, have been recognized to fall in this category.

As CSR Tribunals have been able to review the evidence and reach their determinations (iaw Geneva III Articles 4 and 5), those determined either not be combatants, or those determined to have been combatants but to no longer pose a threat of rejoining the war, have been released.  Of those released, more than two dozen have subsequently been killed or recaptured on the field, which clearly indicates an operating presumption of innocence.

We clearly, as the Supreme Court said, need to have good judicial process to recognize when there is evidence that shows prisoners *were* on the battlefield with guns in their hands, and when they just got rounded up and
handed in for a bounty. Many of the JAGs are concerned about good compliance with the Geneva Conventions.

The Supreme Court held that the President could not establish War Crimes Tribunals (not to be confused with the Combatant Status Determination Tribunals) without explicit legislative authorization.  Which authorization, you should note, has now been provided.

The concerns raised by waterboarding of a few “high-value” targets by trained CIA operatives acting under separate orders every step of the way (Brian Ross, ABC News) do not stop at whether they tell us something. We should also be concerned, as citizens, that the executive branch (the CIA) has taken on judicial functions, that these prisoners have little hope of a trial, that they have no access to the Red Cross, that perhaps we actually found or had handed to us some people with “high-value” information, that we could also have gotten without using waterboarding.

A towering edifice of speculation and conjecture built upon a foundation of rumor and innuendo.

These Congressionally Authorized methods of interrogation are reserved for illegal combatants (as determined by Combatant Status Review Tribunals) who are further believed to have critical and perishable intelligence.  Nor does any captured combatant (legal or illegal) have to be tried before the end of hostilities (indeed, legal combatants may NOT be tried for actions preceding their capture until after said cessation of hostilities).  It is also worth noting that the ICRC regularly visits and inspects the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay.

QED

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Well said, Rod! Especially the second posting. The first was fine in email notification, a bit garbled here in the thread. Though I doubt D2 will respond to either. Appears to be another talkingpoints troll.

These idiots pretend that Article 3 is the entirety of the Geneva Accords. Typical leftard bullshit.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

The scarediecat leftie lie is that we are waterboarding anybody and everybody, and of course that would be a waste of time for us.  A good intel officer is worth his weight in gold, for a number of reasons.  One of those is that he knows the right amount of force to apply, and for how long, to get the best results in the shortest amount of time.  Lefties just think everyone in the military is a drooling savage, but they think the terrorists are misunderstood rebels.  Good Grief!
The leftie mindset hasn’t changed over the years; just watch Dr Strangelove sometime.

I think that statement pretty much sums up the left.
Great piece.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

They couldnt go hard at this guy, with cameras watching and with the thought that they were being paid by him to do this in the first place in their minds.

If its done properly the pouring of water would be non stop and more intense i would think.

The gag reflex would kick in within seconds.

i guess what i am trying to say is all u have to do is get a hose hook it up to a tap, turn it on and spray over the guys nose and mouth. confession in under 1 minute.

this is a very scary torture

Sure. Let’s torture people. You know, when my grandfather stormed the beach at Normandy, he sure as hell didn’t know 60 years later the Supreme Court would circumvent our constituition and install a facist regime.

After 9/11, (while horrible, before we change our system of government let’s remember cancer kills more Americans EVERY day) Americans like you are ready to embrace the sacrifice of civil liberties and human rights in the name of “Homeland Security”.

You know what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the likes of you that support waterboarding?

“Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety...deserve neither”.

It’s Un-American. Period.

“Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety...deserve neither”.

Mindless.

Chris,

If you’re gonna do this you’d better get a whole lot better at it in a hurry.

Your quote, mangled though it is in your rendition, was from Benjamin Franklin, not Thomas Jefferson, and it was from before the American Revolution with a completely different context in mind.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Looks awful, but contrast that with how they treat our prisoners.

It’s not about them.  It’s about us, unless you want to become them.

Lestat:

It’s not about them.  It’s about us, unless you want to become them.

So using techniques reminiscent of this:

is going to turn us into terrorist?

Give me a break.

Confess, it just makes you feel “icky” inside, and it’s all about feelings with you liberals.

Malcolm W. Nance,former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE)

Advanced Terrorism, Abduction and Hostage Survival program (ATAHS):

“There is No Debate Except for Torture Apologists

1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification outside of its limited role as a training demonstrator.

SMALL WARS JOURNAL

littledog,

Mister Nance is entitled to his opinion.

You we just tend to ignore.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Wanna explain how this was bad enough that we tried guys at war crimes trials at the end of WWII, but it’s OK for this dumbass we have for a President?

WOOF:

Waterboarding is a torture technique.

And we know this ... because why?  ANS: It’s politically convenient to describe it as torture.

Dumbass:

Wanna explain how this was bad enough that we tried guys at war crimes trials at the end of WWII, but it’s OK for this dumbass we have for a President?

dumbass, you must be tired of yourself.

The water torture used during WWII caused physical harm and was potentially lethal.  Simulated drowning, while not the nicest thing you could do to somebody, is in no way comparable.

My recommendation:  Get a brain.

T o d,

Must be a real drag to be tired of oneself.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Anybody who thinks that not subjecting high level detainees to “harsh” interrogation techniques, including waterboarding, will improve the treatment of any captured American military personnel is a witless imbecile who should be seen but not heard.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One:

Anybody who thinks that not subjecting high level detainees to “harsh” interrogation techniques, including waterboarding, will improve the treatment of any captured American military personnel is a witless imbecile who should be seen but not heard.

Exactly.

Totalitarian countries and extremist individuals routinely ignore them at every possible level.  It is only the knowledge of how they will be treated if captured that prevents them from doing worse.  In that sense, moderating how we treat these people actually probably has made the type of inhuman treatment they subject their prisoners to actual worse.

The fact is in terms of its stated goals, the Geneva Conventions are a complete failure.

And we know this

Settled law.

WOOF:

Settled law

Wrong.  You’re conflating water torture with water boarding.  Not the same.

How do you define the difference?
In liters? How many times it is done per hour?

Is it OK?
Cause we want to know if you support some armed group?

Is it OK?
Cause we want to know who ate
the strawberries?

Is it OK?
Cause the cable is out, we’re bored,you dissed our momas and you scream funny.

little dog,

Get back on the porch with the rest of the little dogs who know naught of which they speak.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

WOOF:

How do you define the difference?

Easy as pie.

If the technique inflicts intentional physical harm on the individual, it’s torture.

If it doesn’t, it’s not.

You’re either above it, or not.  When I was a green suiter we were above it and were proud of it.  I have no problem killing them.  The more the better. I really don’t even have a problem with the waterboarding.  I have a problem with this administration lying about everything.  You keyboard commandos with a minor in Law should just STF.  Unless you been there you’re just as worthless as the draft dodgers we currently have in the Administration and shouldn’t even be allowed to have a fucking opinion.

Come on over and take my opinion away from, America hating twit. I have dealt with you socialist morons on 2 continents and have no fear of wannabe hippy scum such as you.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Tired,

You are cordially invited to take your best shot at taking away the rights I served to protect in person.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Carrick wrote:

If the technique inflicts intentional physical harm on the individual, it’s torture.

This is your argument.

physical torture “must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.” For a cruel or inhuman psychological technique to rise to the level of mental torture, the Justice Department argued, the psychological harm must last “months or even years.”

What’s organ failure feel like?
Your brain is suffering cognitive dissonance ?
Feels normal doesn’t it?

Thanks for the video, man!