Say Anything Blog

Should we engage in a campaign to lower the world’s population?  Maybe start limiting births and killing the mentally handicapped?  After we all go vegetarian and euthanize the domesticized cattle population, that is.

Oh my, Dave’s gonna be in 7th heaven over this one!

Regards…

There are about 6.5 billion people on this planet, and we all poop and fart.

Speak for yourself.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Rob, I think the place to start is for all of us to stop eating at Taco Bell.

And that’s no bull.

Sorry, had to be done.

This is all just bullshit.

Hm… my comment is there can be serious effects on the environment from human agricultural practices without triggering a world-wide catastrophe.  And we might even have reasons to be concerned about those effects, if environmentalists were to, you know, be a bit more honest about the scope of the problems and not play alarmist “Y2K styled” politics.

For example, let’s review this comment:

Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide, the most common greenhouse gas.

Actually it’s not even close to 9%, it’s more like 0.3% of all CO2 emissions.  What the reporter didn’t get quite right is “it’s 9% of all human-generated CO2 emissions”, which itself in total is less than 4% of the total world-wide CO2 emissions.  (We are responsible for the current net increase in CO2 levels, since without us the system would have been in balance, but that would likely vanish if we stabilized our CO2 production.)

These numbers are arrived at by noting that annual CO2 emissions from all sources into the atmosphere are around 220 billion tons, whereas total human emissions amount to a mere 8 billion tons.

What’s even dumber about the quoted material is that other agricultural practices such as tree farming more than offset the increase in CO2 from all farming activity! That is the net change in atmospheric CO2 from all agricultural practices is a net absorption of CO2 from the atmosphere.  In other words, total bullshit, as Likwidshoe put it.

It’s almost as if environmentalists can’t talk about any human-activity impact issues without reflexively launching off into Chicken Little behavior.  And that’s just pathetic, because I’m pretty sure we could improve on our current farming practices to lesson their impact on our environment.  But this chicken-brained Chicken Little nonsense just derails any serious attempt at dialog.

A United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs.

If this is true, it’s just another reason to choose a vegan diet.

Rob: 

I mean, animals have been pooping and peeing and farting on this planet for eons.

Yes, but only in the past <50 years have we been using intensive farming techniques (’factory farms’ to get their products (milk, meat, etc.). There are more cows in America now then we’ve ever had in the history of the country, by a very wide margin.

Dave, you might be surprised.  It’s said that there used to be about 50 million bison on the continent, while the total number of cattle (adult) is 45 million today.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/issues/bse/BSEOIGFAQ.pdf

So you’re stuck not arguing against mass agriculture, but rather a more subtle argument about whether corn or grass feeding makes Bossy more flatulent.  Enjoy your research!

And I still think that we ALL ought to avoid Taco Bell to save the environment!

rock on

Haha, I just did a google search on “cow fart emissions” and you’re the #1 site, Rob!  Congrats :-D

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I think Rob hates me… I mean, just look at the pic he took of me!

how will i know it? i haven’t smelled it yet.

Cows fartsd in moderation are fine, but when the thosands that we have are on earth it becomes bad enough to cause trouble.  30% of earth’s laand surface is for cattle raising.  For further info read this sepment of article i worte.
First of all in this is that cattle raising is the most harmful part of agriculture.  The biggest damage of any non human is over grazing which causes soil erosion desertification and tropical deforestation. A large amount of methane is produced by the cows that are raised for food which helps cause global warming.  A diet including meat uses up to 3 times as many resources as a vegetarian diet!  Meat usage is expected to double by 2050 and aquaculture will increase causing more pollution.  Also as we have to raise more fish and cattle there will be more water and land usage.  20 vegetarians can live on the same area as one omnivore and being a vegetarian will allow more people to live and have enough to eat.  Meat is already getting more and more expensive, that’s because it’s so harmful to the environment and there’s not enough for everyone, but even the rising prices of meat are a small price to pay compared to what our eating meat is doing to the environment.
Not only does eating meat cause the cattle to do so much damage to the land and aquaculture pollute the water, raising cattle and cooking meat increases global warming.  Raising cattle produces large amounts of methane, which is one of the green house gases, it’s not the most prominent one, but it will rise in the next few years if we continue to eat meat and raise as much cattle because we will need more as the population rises.  If we eat all vegetables we will need one twentieth of the land we currently use to raise food.  By being a vegetarian you can significantly reduce your environmental foot print, or lower the impact of your self on the environment.  Did you know, each year 1,000 species become extinct just because of the trees we cut down raise cattle and cook meat?  By being a vegetarian you do not need to use as much fuel to cook with.  If we don’t use the fuel to cook meat less trees will be cut down and less species will die because of this, and we will use less non renewable resources that put the green house gases in the air. Cattle produces more greenhouse gases, 13.5% of total, than the entire world transport, 18% or total, and is responsible for 37% of the total methane generated by humans.  Methane is 23 times worse for the environment than CO2.  Cows alone produce 4% of the total greenhouse gases, and there are also sheep to consider.  The top destroyer of the environment is the cow.  It takes less water to produce veggies.  We use 30% of the earth’s surface to produce meat and 70% of the area we use to produce food is for meat. 20% of the earth’s grazing areas quality has been reduced by raising cattle.  70% of the Amazon’s deforestation has happened so that more cattle can be raised.  It takes three times more fuel to create a meat diet than a vegetarian one.  We’ve been looking for a way to decrease global warming for years, here it is, and it’s as simple as stop eating meat.  I don’t know about you, but it’s beging to look as though we’re sacrificing a little much for a simple pleasure to me.
Please feel free to email me with any response you might have.

The top destroyer of the environment is the cow.

That’s why I kill ‘em and eat ‘em!
Saving the planet one cow at a time! (No need to thank me! My pleasure!)

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Did you know, each year 1,000 species become extinct just because of the trees we cut down raise cattle and cook meat?

Name ‘em.

Proof weren’t you going to invite us over for a steak fry?

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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mmkay…

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weren’t you going to invite us over for a steak fry?

I like mine with lettuce and tomato. Heinz 57 and French fried potatoes!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Not zucchini, fettucini or bulgar wheat
But a big warm bun and a huge hunk of meat

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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The Whistler… dang nabbit, no one in their right mind puts a steak in a fry pan… it’s kill ‘em and grill ‘em!

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I took you for one who cooks their steak by putting it out in the sun for five minutes.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Now that ... is just down right nasty sounding

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All this talk about steaks is making me hungry! And I had beef for supper!

Vegetables? That’s what food eats!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Hmmm Beef for dinner with Pork Chops on the side and Eagle Claws for dessert I hope.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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I took you for one who cooks their steak by putting it out in the sun for five minutes.

I eat out in a LOT of restaurants. I order my steaks Medium. That way anything from medium rare to to medium well and I’ve got a good hunk of cow!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

I like the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

“Don’t worry sir, I’ll be very humane.”

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Mmmmmmmm! Beef, elk, bison, deer, squirrel… well, squirrel tastes a lot like chicken, but it’s all good!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Soylent Green is vegetarians!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

In the movie, soilent green turned out to be the (secret) Human food!

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Communism is evil

Hatcher: And what about the furniture?
Det. Thorn: Like grapefruit.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Whistler: You’re a helluva piece of furniture!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Don’t talk to me like that. Please.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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(Although, after this thread, you may be overstuffed!)

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Aw, nuts. People were always rotten. But the world ‘was’ beautiful.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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cattle raising is the most harmful part of agriculture. 

The only fitting response to that is: MOO MOO MOO!!

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You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

20 vegetarians can live on the same area as one omnivore

Yet, somehow, refuse to!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

I like my beef burnt as hell and bloody rare.

In an aside, I don’t believe maggie grasps the essence of the comment thread.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

I’m with 2H9 on beef.  You make sure it’s well aged (leave it in the fridge a week if need be), put a little bit of salt and parsley on it, and cook it quickly over high heat.  Open fire is wonderful, but you can also do amazing things with a black iron skillet.

French style!  Yum!  I’m not much for French politics (though Sarkozy is a definite improvement), but their food....ooh la la!

And Maggie’s point?  Well, we have around 40-50 million cattle in the U.S. today, and we had about the same number of bison until Buffalo Bill and his friends got going.  The fact of the matter is that healthy grasslands depend on grazing, and we might as well enjoy eating those animals in the deal. 

You can always count on the PETA types to ignore basic ecological facts, eh?

Yet, somehow, refuse to!

LOL.... Excellent point!

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And i still say we should all stop eating at taco bell to save the envioornment

We should stop eating at taco bells to save pur selves… >.<

The top destroyer of the environment is the cow.

That’s why I kill ‘em and eat ‘em!
Saving the planet one cow at a time! (No need to thank me! My pleasure!)

....  When you eat a cow you increase the demand for cows therefore the cattle industry raises more cows and they produce more methane, as well as a variety of other gases.  “If slaughterhouses had glass walls, the whole world would be vegetarian” - Linda McCartney.  Go to a local abottoir and watch a cow being slaughterd THEN eat meat.  (if you can do thatr somethings wrong with you)

and yes iknow i screwed up the quotes....

The fact of the matter is that healthy grasslands depend on grazing, and we might as well enjoy eating those animals in the deal. 

....graising yes, overgraising, no and overgraising is exactly what’s happening and is responisble for 50% of the erosion in the united states.

The trouble with your argument, Maggie, is that there is no clear evidence that there are more gassy ruminants today than in previous generations.  If anything, growing animals for beef is simply maintaining a status quo that has existed since antiquity, and may even be necessary to keep our environment stable.

And would we really all be vegetarians if kill floors had glass walls?  Nah.  I’ve butchered a few deer, antelope, and such, and I still love a good piece of meat on my plate.  It’s simply the environmentally sensible thing to do.

...graising yes, overgraising, no and overgraising is exactly what’s happening and is responisble for 50% of the erosion in the united states.

50% of the statistics on the internet are made up.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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....graising yes, overgraising, no and overgraising is exactly what’s happening and is responisble for 50% of the erosion in the united states.

The word is grazing not graising.  Disregarding the mispelling, I can’t agree with your statement.  Unlike goats and/or sheep who even eat the roots of the plants they graze on, cattle grazing does not destroy the plants that hold the soil inplace.  Much more soil damage (erosion) is done from cultivated crops than ranching.

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You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

50% of the statistics on the internet are made up.

you mean like that one?

The trouble with your argument, Maggie, is that there is no clear evidence that there are more gassy ruminants today than in previous generations.  If anything, growing animals for beef is simply maintaining a status quo that has existed since antiquity, and may even be necessary to keep our environment stable.

Even if there not over grazing now by 2050 the meat intake is expected to double.  nad the gases caused by cows are not just the methane gases, gases are given off when ppl cook cows and when they make the cow’s food, ect. ect.

Notice, Maggie, that you’ve more or less conceded here that your initial post’s claims are easily refuted, and that your source (PETA or likeminded groups) is engaging in a “rectal data extraction,” or “pulling numbers out of their...”.

Now why should we concede that the increase in meat agriculture would be harmful, when it’s clearly established that it is to this day neutral or even beneficial for the environment?

Maybe, for example, we could eat moose, which are stinking up all of Norway (and Minnesota) with a methane production rate similar to that of a cow.  In that case, we have no net environmental impact from this.

In no case, however, can we assume a priori that the creation of yummy meat is environmentally harmful.  The “factories” are, after all, God’s good creatures.And yum!

rectal data extraction

Hadn’t heard that one before. Nicely euphemistic!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Notice, Maggie, that you’ve more or less conceded here that your initial post’s claims are easily refuted, and that your source (PETA or likeminded groups) is engaging in a “rectal data extraction,” or “pulling numbers out of their...”.

well you cant expect me to be able to prove these thingsa ihaven’;t done the research myslef, all i know is the statitics and that im not gonna eat meat anymore.  The fact is people have been looking ofr a way to redcue global warming, and thisa is an easy way.  Maybe the cows werent hamrful before but now with the combination of all the other things that are casuing global warmign to happen more rapidly nt raising so many cows will makle a large diffrence.  Its basacily fry relitvly quickly (compared to thew long history of tyhr earth) cut down on factories and cars or stop eating meat.  But agian i cnat realy prove anything i haven’t done the studies that rpove this. Ima little young for that, I’m 13.. But i do know tihs I will stand up for what i belive in, and animal rights are right up there.

The fact is people have been looking ofr a way to redcue global warming,

Ever since the last ice age, although I don’t know why.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Thanks, Proof, I coined the phrase so I wouldn’t have to use the other one at work.  It was a distressingly popular way to describe the claims of certain managers of a company that has unsurprisingly gone under.

And Maggie, I think you need to seriously consider looking at some other data besides what the PETA types are telling you for two reasons.

First, if you’re really 13, you need Vitamin B12 and complete proteins to grow up right.  They’re needed for your brain, bones, muscles, and more.  B12 is not found in vegetable diets at all, and complete proteins are very difficult to get without some meat or dairy--especially for young teens like yourself.  See http://www.eatright.org for other information on this.

Second, reality is that raising animals for meat does not necessarily harm the environment, but rather preserves it.  If you don’t put ruminants on a grassland, it quickly changes to something else. 

In other words, those silicone-filled models who are stripping to “prove the point” of PETA really don’t have a clue about either diet or environment, and their behavior should be our first clue that this is the case.  Please, get away from them before they get you hurt!

Ima little young for that, I’m 13..

I didn’t see that before.  Global warming is a fraud dreamt up by the collectivists to tell us what to do.

The Earth has been warming and cooling itself ever since it was created. 

Furthermore the rest of the planets in the solar system have a nearly identical recent warming record as the Earth.  That would lead us to think that the sun in it’s natural cycle is responsible for much of the current warming trend.

Furthermore any fixes proposed by the collectivists would almost certainly fail to do anything but make you and me poorer.

One further fact is that the Southern Ice Pack is growing, not shrinking so you don’t have to worry about the beach disappearing.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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I didn’t see that before.  Global warming is a fraud dreamt up by the collectivists to tell us what to do.
The Earth has been warming and cooling itself ever since it was created. 

… and tihs time it’s heating for 500 years longer than usual.  global warming exsists.  It’s not all humans im not asa ignorant as all that, but im not so ignorant to say it desnt exsist. globasl avrages of tempartures have gone up.  The amount of tropical storms have gone up, and theres so much more to back that up… But even if all of this wasnt true id STILL be a vegitarian bc i dont like the idea of killing something to live (and yes i know i kill plants so dont even bring that up thats just ridiculose) i dont tihnk its wrong to eat meat, but its better not and im happier not eating meat so im not gonna start eating meat…

First, if you’re really 13, you need Vitamin B12 and complete proteins to grow up right.  They’re needed for your brain, bones, muscles, and more.  B12 is not found in vegetable diets at all, and complete proteins are very difficult to get without some meat or dairy--especially for young teens like yourself.  See http://www.eatright.org for other information on this.

… its called eggs milk and vitamins, im not gonna not be a vegitarain.

… and tihs time it’s heating for 500 years longer than usual.

Very interesting. 

In the first case the period between glaciers is nowhere near consistent so that a blip of 500 years would be less than nothing.

Secondly there’s no possible way that mankind could have caused a warm up 500 years ago. 

And you might be surprised to learn that major weather events are not at any historically high level.

But even if all of this wasnt true id STILL be a vegitarian bc i dont like the idea of killing something to live

That’s certainly your choice, but you shouldn’t push your choices on the rest of us.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Maggie, the actual warming that might be attributed to man, if the theory is found to hold, is about 100 years or less.  Your sources are flat out lying to you, and it will get you and/or others hurt in the long run.

I would counsel you to start looking very critically at your sources, and find new ones whose claims are better borne out in reality. 

(and I’m glad you’re not going flat out vegan, BTW)

Robert I think the time frame would be after WW2 for man made emissions to be at all significant.

And of course we’d expect that temperature trend to grow as the concentration of CO2 grows.

But the warming trend is fairly consistent all along and the warmest year on record is 1934 well before the models say we could possibly have created it.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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im happier not eating meat so im not gonna start eating meat…

Good for you! You’re free to have that choice. Just don’t try to impose your choice on other people or creatures, and you should be fine!
One vegetarian I knew decided that her cat should benefit from vegetarianism, too! ( Despite the fact that cats are carnivores!)
Never underestimate the power of a dumb idea!

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For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

That’s certainly your choice, but you shouldn’t push your choices on the rest of us.

im not pushing it on u… ijust said i think its better for the enviorment and for you to be a vagitarain. and btw i checked, theres b12 in my cereal, it might not be natural, buti t’s still in there so....And wahtever you are saying its obvious to me global warming exsists. Ribbt

ijust said i think its better for the enviorment and for you to be a vagitarain.

If history is a guide forcing people to do what you want them to do causes more problems than there were before. 

(for example Anti-Poverty programs that create more poverty)

How that would play out in the case of forced vegetarianism is unclear but I don’t doubt that the law of unintended consequences would rear it’s ugly head.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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How that would play out in the case of forced vegetarianism is unclear but I don’t doubt that the law of unintended consequences would rear it’s ugly head.

...omg… I m not trying to force anyone not to eat meat!!  I dont think its wrong to eat meat, i just dont like the idea of haveing what was an animal inside me!! and i tihnk ppl should be aware of the consiquinces of eating meat… Im not saying you have to be a vegitarian.

Im not saying you have to be a vegitarian.

That’s good to here.  A lot of the people that say the things you were saying want to push people as far as they can.

For example the global warming people say they are going to make business pay to fix the problem.  Well that’s simply not true.  Their agenda is to limit my choices while making me pay a lot more things I need.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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...????i didnt get that whistler but w/e i need to go now so all i ‘ll say for now is: i guess you cna say ribbit!

Damn! Wish I had been home earlier. maggie, glad you do grasp the essence of the comment thread. Having discussions with many of the people you will meet at sayanythingblog is a very good way to add to your education and expand your understanding of the world and country around you. Public Service spot closes.

Darlin’, you need to look at all sides and angles of issues. You need to build a foundation, as it were, of information. Not wanting to eat meat because the process of bringing it from field to table is unpleasant is perfectly acceptable. You may change that view as you get older, may not.

As for the environment, you need to go do some reading at a few sites that have information formatted for someone your age.

Here are some links to get a start. Planetary Sciences covers a lot of ground, and NASA has a clunky page format. Still, there is a vast amount of content. The Sun is a very important variable in our environment. And there are some real cool images and video clips.

This site is a bit out of date, the program ended, I believe. NAMMA changed the way many people look at Tropical Storm development. You can google Accuweather.com and get satellite and radar from their public page and see how weather pattern flow works. Look at the Hurricane Center to see how storms form and move.

And last, most people who come to sayanything are adults, so you should probably let your parents know you come here and get them to check it out. They may not approve, don’t want you getting in trouble. The NASA links are clean and age appropriate, no problem there.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

As for the environment, you need to go do some reading at a few sites that have information formatted for someone your age.

… Excuse me but i have read information and understand it.  Perhpas it was incorect information but i understand what it says perfectly well thank you very much.  i have not rread this stuff just online but many of my statistics have been gotten online.  i don’t need information simplified for me…

So much for being the helpful citizen. You understand nothing, and display the usual willful ignorance of the leftard.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

So much for being the helpful citizen.

.... Denial is not helpful....Kthanksbye

Does that mean you’re going to look at the facts rather than listen to those with an agenda?

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Does that mean you’re going to look at the facts rather than listen to those with an agenda?

....The facts do happen to be more correct than opinions you know....and besides that im reading what your saying here and what people who dont belive in global warming write in articles, i just hapen to disagree.  Actualy i suppose i disagree with both sides.  Im not an extrimist, i dont belive ppl are the complete source of global warming, but im not gonna say it doesnt exsist either....

You understand nothing, and display the usual willful ignorance of the leftard.

I understand and have considerd at least most of what you undersdtand and have considerd, jut because I have come to a diffrente conclusion does not mean i understand nothing.

Sweetheart, you have not studied the issue. Did you even go to any of the links I posted? Have you, in fact, read anything other than the globalwarming blahblah? You have the entire knowledge of the world inside that box called a computer. Use it. Don’t just skim over little pieces and decide you know all you need. That way lays a ruined life, for no reason whatsoever.

Global Climate Change, or Man Made Global Warming as you have chosen to call it, is a permanent component of our planet’s environment. During the last 55,000 years the climate of this planet has had several much sharper changes, up and down in temperature, than what is being experienced now.

Free your mind, your a&& will surely follow.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

....Stop trying to tell me i havent studied this, we have studied it in sience class where we studied both sides of it, I have decieded that i belive in global warming and have branched out since then. 

That way lays a ruined life, for no reason whatsoever.

And in denigning global warming lies a ruined world. Anyways, my life will not be ruined because i belive in global warming where on earth do you get that?

I have decieded that i belive in global warming

Not just Global warming, but Martian Warming. Do you want to explain how we’re to blame for that too?  I’m sure your teacher covered that too.

Anyways, my life will not be ruined because i belive in global warming where on earth do you get that?

If you look at the fixes you’ll see that they will cut your standard of living.  You’ll be living in a small house without air conditioning, riding in public transport rather than driving a car. 

Now that would hardly ruin your life, but it certainly would keep you from being all you can be.

A real life example of that is the environmental movement’s sustainable development for the poorest nations today.  Rather than help the very poor develop they’re trying to hold them to a very low standard of living.  That’s resulting in many deaths today from poor medication, refrigeration, and health hazards like indoor air pollution. 

It’s barbaric holding people back.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Your life is being ruined because you are closeminded and incapable of learning. And this condition is one you have chosen. Sitting in a classroom and listening to a teacher spew environazi propaganda is not “study”.

If you decide to actually study environmental sciences the links I posted are a good start. I doubt you will. Goodbye.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Maggie, are you telling us that the same clowns who evidently cannot teach you how to spell are somehow capable of teaching you the nuances of climatology?  That somehow, despite the fact that you are probably only now getting to approach the subject of algebra, these teachers are able to adequately present science that depends on mathematics that you likely will not take for six years, if at all?

Let’s be serious here.  I was in middle school once (a long long time ago in a galaxy...), and I know full well that neither the teachers nor the students at my middle school were ready or able to approach such a subject.  They were, however, able to teach me how to spell and perform arithmetic.

So if your teachers are concentrating on teaching you about global warming instead of how to spell and do arithmetic, a gentle suggestion; ask your parents to get you out of that school and into one that will teach you what you really need to learn.

... Teachers teach diffrente curiculumns.  and my science techer hardly teaches me to spell.  my scienvce teacher did not tell us one way or the other whether to belive in global wamring.  i will noty use no air conditiong or public transit, I will usea hybred car or one that runs on a completly alternate fuel such as corn (they will probably have finished developing that by the time i am ready to buy a car) and my house will not run on electricity but alternate fuels.  I am not close minded, far from it, If i was close minded i wouldnt belive in some of things i belive in, if you can come up with a way we can eat meat and still save the enviorment tell me, in the mean time dont tell me that i am close minded. We breached the subject of algebra in 5th grade im in geomotry this year… And dont harp on me for not being able to spell, it’s called adhd… So what ever ill look at your sites, and ill counter whatever they say im sure i curently have 12 books checked from theklibrary on vegitarianism and animal rights so....

Yes, Maggie, the list of “to do” items you make there demonstrates clearly that you’re not being educated at all.  You’re being indoctrinated.

And yes, it’s OK to eat meat.  As we’ve noted before on this thread, grasslands need to be grazed, or they will become something else.  Healthy ruminant herds need to be culled, or else they will destroy both themselves and their habitat.  There is nothing wrong with being the means by which grasslands are kept healthy.

.... I NEVER said its not ok to eat meat....  and as

we’ve noted before on this thread

zgrass lands do need to be grazzed But NOT over grazed!  Not to the point where the mass erosion we have is takeing place.  I do think we should eat less meat and its not just for the globaL WARMING REASONS (I am forced to admit there are some pretty good counter arguemnts, but then agai nthe tobaco company has good counter argumnets thjat have no truth what so ever such as driking o glass of whole milk is moe hazardis to your health than secound hand smoke) if we eat no meat or less meat we will have more food the water table wontdrop so much (vegitarians need less waterfor there diet in a year than an omnivore in a month) animls are treated inhumanly, some chicken farms have over 1 million chickens in them with chickens kept in cages stacked on top of each other in cages with a floor spaces smaller than an aveage pice of paper.  Hogs are slaughterd at 25 weeks of age and cows at 14 months.  The average american eats twice as much meat as people ion other countries.  2/3 of the grain we grow is fed to cows! if this grain was insted fed to people we’d be able to feeed 2/3 of the 1.5 billion peopel who are malnourished. If every one lived like americans we’d need FOUR friggin earhths to support us all.  the avergae american is responisble for 2,00 pounds of grain intake every year most of which is eaten by a cow which is eaten by them, the avergae indian person is responisble for the intake of 400 lbs of grain most of which they eat directly.  291 BILLION POUNDS OF MANUER every year in the us is dumped into a pit or sprayed over your crops and is given NO SEWAGE TREATMENT!!!! The amount of water used to make 1,00 lbs of beef could float a destroyer! ( that’s 5214000 galleons of water by the way compared to the 23000 galleons of water it would take to make that much lettuce.) And this time don’t tell me my facts are incorect i got them from a published non fiction book not the internet....

O and also, you say that one hundred years ago there where the 50 million bison that there are now cows.  You also say that the period between this ice age and the last is only one hundred years longer than any other, and that humans didnt put out enough CO2 back then to make a diffrence in the enviorment.  HMM! biason one hundred years ago people couldnt make a big enough diffrece in CO2 levels, and YET there’s still the fact it’s one hundred years longerthan ever before… Some how i think the cows mighta been makeing a diffrnce back thewn even if WE weren’t.

if we eat no meat or less meat we will have more food the water table wontdrop so much (vegitarians need less waterfor there diet in a year than an omnivore in a month)

Coming from a person who is going to drive a car powered by corn.

Do you have any idea how much water it takes to process a gallon of ethanol?

Holy cow have you been indoctrinated. 

By the way, did you know we’ve been in a warming trend since the last ice age?

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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if this grain was insted fed to people we’d be able to feeed 2/3 of the 1.5 billion peopel who are malnourished.

History has shown us that giving away grain puts the local farmers out of business making the problem worse.

The reason why people are malnourished is because governments over the world do not allow people to take care of themselves.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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