Conrad/Dorgan Get Bin Laden CIA Unit Reformed

• September 8, 2006

By a vote of 96-0, the United States Senate today approved an amendment by Senator Kent Conrad and Senator Byron Dorgan to refocus the nation’s mission on bringing to justice Osama bin Laden, chief mastermind of the murderous 9/11 terrorist attacks, by reinstating a now-lapsed intelligence team dedicated to finding bin Laden.

Terrorism does not begin and end with bin Laden, and the reformation of this unit doesn’t make us any more likely to catch bin Laden.
These Democrats are clueless when it comes to the war on terror. We can’t put all our eggs in one basket. We must protect against all threats posed by terrorism, not just one terrorist. When the Bush administration ordered the bin Laden unit to be closed down it was a shift in policy recognizing that OBL had been marginalized. He is off in a cave somewhere communicating with the world through audio recordings smuggled to the Arab media.
Democrats are no doubt patting themselves on the back for re-forming this unit, but the actual impact it will have in the war on terror is near zero.
But what else other than empty, symbolic action would we expect from a couple of Democrats?

Tags: North Dakota News

http://Array bark

Yeah, there was NO terrorism before 911!!!! What’s that about a 1st WTC bombing? What’s that about the USS Cole? Ummmmmm…. Crap.
Bat One

The mere use of the word “intelligence” in the same sentence with the names Conrad and Dorgan is preposterous. This is just more simple-minded, election year act of self gratification from Democrats who are hopeless, and hapless, on the issue of national security.

The idea that Conrad and Dorgan know more about our nation’s intelligence needs than the officials charged with overseeing our intelligence gathering efforts is simply ludicrous.
Bat One

But the real question here is why are Democrats wasting our time and tax dollars with meaningless gestures like this?

Rob,

Because they are congenitally incapable of thinking of anything else. This may be a meaningless gesture to a thoughtful, rational individual, but to the Democrats this is a serious policy initiative. These are the same folks who want to move the US Marines out to Iraq, and around the corner to Okinawa.
WOOF

Do the math

By a vote of 96-0
Democrats are no doubt patting themselves on the back for re-forming this unit
bin Laden

“Terrorism does not begin and end with bin Laden” is not a statement about whether or not bin Laden invented terrorism.

Who said it was? Not I. Every terrorist attack that has transpired and will transpire doesn’t start with me it won’t end whether I’ve expired or not.

It’s a fucking idiom.

Seemed pretty straight forward to me.

” You’re either being disingenuous, or your reach has exceeded your grasp.”

Let’s go with c). In response to a straight forward statement that terrorism doesn’t begin or end with me, you stated it DID start with me. That was incorrect. Your continued failure to admit something so obviously in error makes you either “disingenuous” or unable to udnerstand simple logic.

3000 people were ended because of what Osama bin Laden began. That’s ~100 times more than have been killed by terror attacks on U.S. soil before or since 9/11.

I blush. But those were not the first individuals to be killed in terrorist attacks. Nor does your new implication that because the number of individuals killed on 911 exceeded the total in previous terror attacks on “U.S. soil” mean that terrorism begins or ends with me.

“Bush wasn’t doing shit about terrorism until 9/11 (not a fault, just a fact).”

Not a fact either. He wasn’t doing much more than the previous President and his administration did, but he began changing foriegn policy as related to international terrorist organizations almost immediately. The process he started resulted in recommendations being handed to him on the eve of the WTC and Pentagon attacks. Did he do enough? No. But then the previous administration had 8 years to deal with terrorism and this one had 8 months “before 9/11″.

“9/11 doesn’t happen without bin Laden. The war on terror doesn’t happen without bin Laden.”

And terrorism is not defined as “9/11″. Let’s refresh for you again. The statement was:

“Terrorism does not begin or end with bin Laden.”

Nothing you’ve said refutes that statement.

bin Laden moved terrorism from a criminal act to an act of war.

An attack I take responsibility for was what motivated the President to move “terrorism from a criminal act to an act of war” – true.

I don’t care if he’s stuck in a cave, limited to producing propaganda videos and tapes…

You missed the point. I could be chilling with the ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi right now, yet Islamic terrorism is still a serious problem for nations around the globe.

that doesn’t get around the fact that he’s responsible for this entire mess we’re in.

I’m responsible for Hezbollah? I’m responsible for embassies being burned and people being killed over cartoons? Zawahiri has no culpability in any of al Qaeda’s attacks? I am not the only leader of the only terrorist organization on the face of the planet, I just happen to be the one responsible for the attack that spurred the United States into action. And when they find my bones in a cave, it will not be the end of Islamic terrorism.
bin Laden

Come on, guys. 9/11 started with him.

Ahem

“Terrorism does not begin and end with bin Laden”

It did begin with him.

See you said terrorism began with me. That was wrong.

The war on terror started with him.

The War on Terror was started by the President of the United States as a change in strategy in dealing with perpatrators of terrorist attacks on his nation and others. I’d actually pulled off many terror attacks before that one. I digress.

A refresher – the statement was:

Terrorism does not begin and end with bin Laden

Then you said:

It did begin with him. 9/11 doesn’t just happen.

Then you went on to tell everyone that things needed to planned and financed and that face cards are better than peons. But that doesn’t change the fact that you said:

It did begin with him

.

Or the fact that as you put it –

Islamic terrorism has been around for hundreds of years.

Now you could have just said that you thought it was more important to snag yours truly, but you were attempting to refute Rob’s statement that:

“Terrorism does not begin and end with bin Laden”

And you failed. Rob is right. I’m presently not much of a face card at all. Zawahiri, on the other hand, just produced a new video inviting you to join Islam or face the consequences. Be I marginalized to a dark lonely cave or to the point of getting the virgins I’m owed, Zawahiri and al Qaeda press on (all be it withered).

Don’t patronize me.

No one is patronizing you. They are disagreeing with you and effectively refuting statements you’ve made.
bin Laden

I’m shaking in my boots! I just soo totally lucked out when Bush did away with that cluster of super-slueths at the CIA! Now if I could just get this damned Handy-Cam fixed, I wouldn’t have to have Zawahiri and Adam Gahdan’s mugs all over the TV screens acting like they’re calling the shots. Zawahiri and I used to be soo close, now he won’t even make a video with me. I need a tissue…..
http://txfx.net/ Mark Jaquith

Terrorism does not begin and end with bin Laden

It did begin with him. 9/11 doesn’t just happen. It takes money (hundreds of thousands of dollars) and intelligence and training and management. Catching the “face cards” might not bring things to a halt, but it does better than catching a hundred peons. It causes internal stress on their organization. It’s also a good PR victory for our side. You don’t have to spend millions of dollars on a good new generating unit when you’re actually catching the perps.

the reformation of this unit doesn’t make us any more likely to catch bin Laden.

For that to be true, catching him would have to be determined solely by randomness, such that no matter of trying would make it any more likely. Do you really think that’s the case?
http://txfx.net/ Mark Jaquith

But those were not the first individuals to be killed in terrorist attacks. Nor does your new implication that because the number of individuals killed on 911 exceeded the total in previous terror attacks on “U.S. soil” mean that terrorism begins or ends with me.

Before 9/11, terrorism wasn’t an issue for us. It wasn’t swinging votes or keeping people up at night. It wasn’t killing any significant amount of people. It was ignorable. Would that it had stayed that way.

Osama bin Laden made it unignorable. He is responsible for this entire mess we’re in, likely including Iraq (what, you think Congress would have voted for war if their constituents weren’t paralyzed with fear about terrorism?)

It says a lot about the futility of this whole exercise if we can’t catch him. The 9/11 attacks were what initiated this whole war, but how can we possibly be successful in eliminating all terrorism when we can’t find the people responsible for that one initial act, 5 years later?

I think that’s why people are so dismissive about Osama bin Laden (although Bush has started talking about him again, recently). It lends strength to pessimism. They don’t want to admit that maybe the best we can hope for is containment or reduction of terrorism.
bin Laden

Before 9/11, terrorism wasn’t an issue for us. It wasn’t swinging votes or keeping people up at night. It wasn’t killing any significant amount of people. It was ignorable. Would that it had stayed that way.

Again. This doesn’t refute the fact that terrorism doesn’t begin and end with me. Did you mean it to? Hard to tell at this point. You’ve strayed soo far from your original point of contention as to have abandon it completely. And that it didn’t “stay that way” (as you seem to wish that it had) should tell you something about ignoring threats when they are gathering. Not to mention, you are speaking for yourself when you say that terrorism wasn’t bothering anyone. I guess it’s ok as long as US embassies and military vessels and lodging are destroyed so long as you get a comfy nights sleep.

Osama bin Laden made it unignorable.

Oh I had help. Friendly nations. Failed states. I made it “unignorable” to a larger group of people. To some, the WTC attacks in 1993 might have been their tipping point. To others, the USS Cole. To others, watching Israeli citizens slaughtered as they go about their public lives might have made terrorism “unignorable”.

“He is responsible for this entire mess we’re in,”

You flatter me. But this statement shows that you have no idea of the scope or the reality of the mess you are in.

likely including Iraq (what, you think Congress would have voted for war if their constituents weren’t paralyzed with fear about terrorism?)

Your suggestion that they only reason they’d ever hold Saddam to account is because they were afraid of their terrified constituents is both cynical and pure speculation and generalization. That can not be known. Saddam Hussein was an avid supporter of international terrorists. But this is merely a straw man. You are still WAY off track. Terrorism did not begin with me, it will not end with me. You are still trying to equate the decisions of US policy makers to Islamic terrorism as a whole. Nothing doing.

It says a lot about the futility of this whole exercise if we can’t catch him.

No it doesn’t. Let’s say that I’m one with the force here. Let’s say I was literally obliterated by a concussive blast from coalition forces. Is the effort still futile? Hell no. I’m vapor! To a lesser degree, if I can’t direct the operations of AQ effectively, then I am severly marginalized and that is also not indicative of futility.

The 9/11 attacks were what initiated this whole war,

You’re beginning to sound like a broken record. The terrorist attacks of 09/11/2001 ARE NOT the entirety of global Islamic terrorism by any measure. They were the event that finally initiated decisive action on the part of the United States to hold accountable terrorist sponsoring states and aggressively pursue terrorists across the globe. There IS a difference. The statement AGAIN: Terrorism does not begin or end with yours truly. I’m a high value target. One of many. As al Qaeda’s leader I am a shell of my former self. Those are important distinctions.

but how can we possibly be successful in eliminating all terrorism when we can’t find the people responsible

You’ve found several of them and captured or killed them. And you can be successful by continuing to hold to account (which includes capture and killing just so we are clear) anyone who carries out terrorist attacks, plans them, finances them, and provide safe haven for terrorists.

for that one initial act,

The initial act was a symptom of a larger problem.

5 years later?

You do understand that an invididual can literally disappear from the face of the earth for all practicle purposes for much much longer than that, right?

I think that’s why people are so dismissive about Osama bin Laden (although Bush has started talking about him again, recently). It lends strength to pessimism. They don’t want to admit that maybe the best we can hope for is containment or reduction of terrorism.

Bush has said that there will be no decisive battle that let’s everyone know that victory has been attained. Not soo different from what your saying there, though his objectives are much better defined than are yours. States that sponsor terror can be confronted and dealt with. States that can not wipe out the terrorists in their midst can be assisted. Rather than the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein in Iraq, there can be responsible representative governing bodies that aid in eliminating terrorist threats rather than funding them and harboring them. That is the only responsible way to tackle your goals of “containment” and “reduction”.
bin Laden

I don’t want Osama marginalized.

That’s the best you can get at the moment. But by all means, if you have a information on my specific location drop a line to the coalition forces and have them come pick me up!

I want all the people who, before the invasion of Iraq, had never committed a terrorist act to be marginalized.

This is purely nonsense. What of those that have committed terrorist acts after Operation Iraqi Freedom began? And why low ball it? If they’ve committed terrorist attacks, shouldn’t their desired fate be the same as my own (killed or captured)?

Once you attack us, you lose the option of quietly encouraging jihad from the shadows.

Who doesn’t want me killed or captured? I’d venture that no one in a position of leadership on the coalition side would rather I continue “quietly encouraging jihad from the shadows”. You’ve constructed a straw-man.

It’s actions that matter.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with my statement that the attacks of September 11th, 2001 were a symptom of a larger problem. Another straw-man.

You seem to think that it’s more important to act on perceived threats than respond to actual harm.

I do not. I said no such thing. Nor did I say anything which could be construed to mean that I believe acting on “perceived” threats is more important than “responding to actual harm”. Are you implying that one should not place equal importance on dealing with threats that have yet to inflict harm but are likely to do so?

I disagree. That’s all there really is to say about that.

And your straw-man now walks with a pronounced limp. You’ve demonstrated nothing short of an inability to recognize that the hunt for me, Zawahiri and co continues. Your true contention seems to be with coalition forces performing other counter-terrorism efforts at the same time that they are working to bring al Qaeda’s leaders to justice, specifically the liberation of Iraq from the brutal terrorist sponsoring regime of Saddam Hussein.
http://txfx.net/ Mark Jaquith

“Terrorism does not begin and end with bin Laden” is not a statement about whether or not bin Laden invented terrorism. It’s a fucking idiom. You’re either being disingenuous, or your reach has exceeded your grasp.

3000 people were ended because of what Osama bin Laden began. That’s ~100 times more than have been killed by terror attacks on U.S. soil before or since 9/11. Bush wasn’t doing shit about terrorism until 9/11 (not a fault, just a fact).

9/11 doesn’t happen without bin Laden. The war on terror doesn’t happen without bin Laden. bin Laden moved terrorism from a criminal act to an act of war. I don’t care if he’s stuck in a cave, limited to producing propaganda videos and tapes… that doesn’t get around the fact that he’s responsible for this entire mess we’re in.
http://txfx.net/ Mark Jaquith

Osama refined terrorism and provided it with organization, money and backing…but he didn’t invent it.

Come on, guys. 9/11 started with him. The war on terror started with him. Islamic terrorism has been around for hundreds of years. Don’t patronize me.

I don’t so much mind the reformation of this unit, but it is an empty gesture.

Why do you assume it is empty? If there is a team dedicated to a task, doesn’t that task stand a better chance of being accomplished? If you lose a pet, you put up fliers, sure, but do you just go about your daily routine, hoping that you’ll run into the pet? No, you call your friends and go actively looking.
http://txfx.net/ Mark Jaquith

Osama, at this point, has been marginalized. Zawahiri, his #2 guy, has to write letters to friends to find out if his propaganda videos have aired. Eventually Osama and his generation of terrorists will die out.

I don’t want Osama marginalized. I want all the people who, before the invasion of Iraq, had never committed a terrorist act to be marginalized. Once you attack us, you lose the option of quietly encouraging jihad from the shadows.

The initial act was a symptom of a larger problem.

It’s actions that matter. You seem to think that it’s more important to act on perceived threats than respond to actual harm. I disagree. That’s all there really is to say about that.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

It did begin with him. 9/11 doesn’t just happen. It takes money (hundreds of thousands of dollars) and intelligence and training and management.

Actually, you couldn’t be more wrong. Islamic terrorism didn’t start with Osama bin Laden. It predates him by quite a bit. Osama refined terrorism and provided it with organization, money and backing…but he didn’t invent it.

Saying that he did is as stupid as saying that he alone is terrorism. It was started by one guy, it was started by the oppression and totalitarianism in the middle east. And ending that oppression and totalitarianism is what is going to end terrorism too.

And Mark, you’re forgetting that we are still trying to find bin Laden. We don’t need a specialized unit to do it.

I don’t so much mind the reformation of this unit, but it is an empty gesture.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

Yes, Republicans voted for it too, but they had to. If they didn’t the Dems would be screaming about the Repubs. not wanting to find bin Laden.

But the real question here is why are Democrats wasting our time and tax dollars with meaningless gestures like this?
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

It says a lot about the futility of this whole exercise if we can’t catch him. The 9/11 attacks were what initiated this whole war, but how can we possibly be successful in eliminating all terrorism when we can’t find the people responsible for that one initial act, 5 years later?

You’re missing the point. Big time.

Osama, at this point, has been marginalized. Zawahiri, his #2 guy, has to write letters to friends to find out if his propaganda videos have aired. Eventually Osama and his generation of terrorists will die out.

What we need to do now is focus on preventing future generations of terrorists from forming while simultaneously protecting ourselves from the threats of all current terrorists.

If you’re trying to claim that our current war on terror is “futile” because there’s one particular guy out there we haven’t caught you’re on a fool’s errand.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

And let’s not forget how totally bankrupt the “we’d catch bin Laden” crap is from Democrats. That’s operating on the same logical level as “we’d have stopped hurricane Katrina” and “we’d make people less poor.”

It just doesn’t work that way. Bin Laden is one man. If we caught him tomorrow we’d still be hip deep in the war on terror.

SayAnythingBlog.com

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