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Sunday, April 22, 2007

How Do We Enforce A Gun Ban For The Mentally Ill?

With the Virginia Tech massacre in the headlines endlessly busybody politicians in D.C. feel like they need to do something to make it look like they’re earning their paychecks, so the consensus among both Democrats and Republicans seems to be a ban on guns for the mentally ill.

My question for you folks is: How in the hell is that sort of a ban going to work?

Think about it.  Mental illness is something that is diagnosed medically.  Meaning that a doctor does it, and your diagnosis is covered by doctor-patient confidentiality.  So how are gun sellers going to know who does and does not have a mental condition that disqualifies them from purchasing a firearm?  Are we going to start requiring that psychiatrists report these kind of illnesses to the feds who will keep it all in a big database?  That sounds like a gross invasion of our privacy, not to mention something that would require a huge new federal bureaucracy costing us millions or billions of tax dollars.

Banning people with criminal records from buying guns is one thing as criminal records are public records, but banning gun sales to people with certain medical conditions is a whole new ball of wax.

And who gets to decide what sort of mental disorder does and does not disqualify one from buying firearms?  If I get fired from my job, go to see my shrink and get some Prozac to help me with my depression is someone from the ATF going to show up to take away my weapons?

I don’t think anyone in this country wants guns in the hands of people who are mentally unstable, but what sort of a slippery slope do we put ourselves on if we start turning over our medical records to the feds so they can decide whether or not we’re mentally fit enough to own a shotgun?  Plus, how many of this nation’s infamous shooters have actually been diagnosed with any sort of really serious mental condition before they went on their shooting rampage?  Seems to me that the cliche we usually hear after one of these tragic incidents (though this didn’t hold true with Virginia Tech) is that the person seemed “so normal” to neighbors and friends.

People will want to rally behind a ban on firearms for the mentally disabled, but before we offer our knee-jerk support for such “common sense” legislation I think we ought to consider the consequences of trying to enforce it.

Comments

Guns of the mentally ill
should have white barrels.

Japanese police visit gun
owners at home twice a year.

WOOF on April 22, 2007 at 09:07 pm

This is predictable. 
[url=http://www.geocities.com /jurist6/drugkids.htm#drugs]
Create an epidemic[/url], then demand more power with which to control it.  Never mind that just following the Constitution is the most effective and lawful remedy.

The society, at the same time, must be educated into the belief of increasing insanity within its ranks. This creates an emergency, and places the psychopolitician in a saviour role, and places him, at length, in charge of the society.

-- A synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics, Chapter XII


...for great justice

Move_Zig on April 22, 2007 at 10:14 pm

MZ, let’s try a link that works. With so many American children medicated (for symptoms which include teenage angst and mood-swings - normal for any child), one could envisage an entire generation banned from holding firearms. Gun ownership could (in one or two generations) become the exception rather than the norm, if current trends continue.

In answer to Rob’s question - how do we enforce a gun ban for the mentally ill? - make them all wear hi-vis coats. smile
George Orwell eat your heart out!


Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

ManofFireandLight on April 22, 2007 at 11:02 pm

This is a step that leftards have been working towards for many years. By claiming that normal childhood maladies are mental illness a wedge is placed between people and personal responsibility. You are mentally incapacitated, therefore you can not run your own life. No decisions for you. The State will decide and you will submit. Or you will be punished.

According to leftards everyone is mentally ill, and they are the only authority that can protect people from themselves. This is just another step down that path.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 23, 2007 at 04:50 am

IF a person goes to the doctor and shows signs of hatred and complete creepiness. (like Cho obviously did) Shouldn’t there be some kind of way these type of individuals should be reported to a homeland security or something? After observing his videos it was quite obvious he was hate filled. AND when the teacher and students were going to quit??? There should be somewhere to report dangerous or potentially dangerous people.

Zsa Zsa on April 23, 2007 at 04:57 am
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

This is a step that leftards have been working towards for many years. By claiming that normal childhood maladies are mental illness a wedge is placed between people and personal responsibility. You are mentally incapacitated, therefore you can not run your own life. No decisions for you. The State will decide and you will submit. Or you will be punished.

My goodness...this is so true it’s scary.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on April 23, 2007 at 05:38 am

2h9/Rob
There was an op-ed piece in the WSJ the other day about this. They estimated half the bigtime CEOs in the country would be considered ‘mentally ill’ by standards these people come up with.
Built in here is also a certain fallacy by which certain people claim to be privy to the future potential acts of these ‘unstable’ individuals. Its epistemically unavailable just like the amount of info one needs for a centrally planned economy. Again, if we strap people into padded boxes and tranquilize them we will prevent needless deaths and injuries. Who’s with me? Let’s make it a law… in the name of preserving our freedom to live.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 23, 2007 at 07:09 am

MOFO,

Good link, however, the original still works for me—must be online censoring in your People’s Republic of Oceania.

Folks,

Watch closely where the Left are going with this.  It seems, on the surface, to be a common sense thing to do.  Knowing the way the Left has operated in the past—THEY will define the NEW SANE and INSANE.  If you believe in things like God, Guts and Guns or even Queen and County, they will coin a new three letter acroymn, declaring un-politically-correct thoughts to be a disease of the mind. 

Voila, [insert Soup Nazi here]

No guns for you!


...for great justice

Move_Zig on April 23, 2007 at 09:56 am

Whaddyaknow. Brady supports it. A victim of the Pilgrim’s, “wait til it happens to you” fallacy. Talk about a one issue fella.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 23, 2007 at 10:13 am
Avatar for Keith, Indy

Current law prevents anyone who has “ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution.” In that, a person is asked that on form 4473, and if they answer YES to the question, they are not allowed to purchase a firearm through a FFL dealer.

There is already a vast system which is used to determine if someone is eligible to purchase a firearm, it’s called the NICS, and is maintained by the FBI (I believe.)

Many states, though not all, already provide mental health information to this system.

FFL Dealers, to my knowledge, do not receive anything other then a YES/NO, and a code to put on the 4473 form.  So, a person may be denied the purchase of a firearm, and the dealer isn’t going to know why.  It could be a criminal record, it could be wrong information in the database.  All the dealer is going to know is to not sell them the firearm.

So, the system is already in place, many states are already providing the information, and the effect on privacy is negligible.

Now, there very well could be a slippery slope with regard to what conditions would or should disqualify someone.  And there ought to be a healthy debate about that.

Keith, Indy on April 23, 2007 at 10:45 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

Actually, the medical privilege is already abridged in many/most states when doctors have evidence of crimes against children.  It’s not a stretch to suggest that it could be done for significant mental illness; the problem is determining when it would be activated, and how the restriction would be removed.

Robert Perry on April 23, 2007 at 12:12 pm

It will never be removed. And it can be expanded. If you are unfit to possess a firearm you damn well should not operate a motor vehicle. Own your own home? Are you nuts, oh, yes, you are. Reside in this nice, Government housing. The Mental Health Facilitator is down in the Medical Suite.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 23, 2007 at 01:30 pm

declaring un-politically-correct thoughts to be a disease of the mind.

Yep, that is (was) a marxist policy practiced by the old Soviet Union.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on April 23, 2007 at 03:02 pm

Keith, Indy.  Thanks for that bit of factual information.  Our own state also has similar language in order to obtain a CWP.  I have not seen the federal form, but it is long.  Glad to see one more adult here who can debate with more facts and less emotional “I know what I knows”!


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on April 23, 2007 at 05:35 pm
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