Say Anything Blog

Is this where the Democrats come by to tell us that it’s for the children?

They took away our choice. The Democrats forced us to fund this lifestyle.

Thanks for nothing, Dems.

Two things, Rob.  If any of this is true, it should certainly be dealt with, but police terrorism still isn’t the way.  Secondly, if our police were half as enthusiastic in going after the millions of invaders who do exactly the same thing, along with smuggling in pregnant women to get “anchor babies” for future claims on public assistance, it might mean something.
BTW, they could also go after the gangs that infest most of our major cities.  Of course, they don’t do that; instead they make a showboat attack on citizens they know won’t shoot back.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

One wonders if maybe there could be a case made for saving the government money by allowing polygamy, eh?

Interesting angle, never thought about it before.......

I think Rob hates me… I mean, just look at the pic he took of me!

So, if we don’t stop all others from milking the gov’t we shouldn’t stop this cult community from their “bleeding the beast” theory? It’s all or nothing huh?

Yowch!  I wonder if it’s legal for police to query records of welfare programs to see if any interesting (illegal) patterns show up.  Say lots of ladies claiming one man is the father of their children, etc…

Pilgrim?

On this note, I was told that Minnesota TANF (succeeded AFDC) does require moms to name the dads of their children, but I don’t know how good they are at going after child support.

Yowch! I wonder if it’s legal for police to query records of welfare programs to see if any interesting (illegal) patterns show up.

I wonder if it’s done for anyone other than those labeled as being in a “cult”.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

So, if we don’t stop all others from milking the gov’t we shouldn’t stop this cult community from their “bleeding the beast” theory? It’s all or nothing huh?

Not by me, if that’s what you’re trying to imply.  I think we should have been going after invaders for more than twenty years now, but suddenly we are doing it to this alleged “cult”.  Why the double standard?

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

I wonder if it’s legal for police to query records of welfare programs to see if any interesting (illegal) patterns show up.  Say lots of ladies claiming one man is the father of their children, etc…

You’d think that it would be.  After all, the expenditure of public dollars is the public’s business, no?

If any of this is true, it should certainly be dealt with, but police terrorism still isn’t the way. 

I posted my opinions about the methods used by the cops in this instance in another post.  I’d note that I support a raid on a compound with numerous allegations of child abuse, but draw a distinction between such a raid and terrorism.

These people weren’t armed.  The cops didn’t need a tank.  Nor should the cops have a tank at their disposal.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I agree Robert, but as of right now I’m addressing the YFZ cult’s issue of fraud and scamming since it has come to light in the wake of the recent raid.\
Plus… this tends to bother me..

Any FLDS/YFZ member caught paying property taxes faces excommunication. This has resulted in the nonpayment of millions of dollars per state in property taxes of individual FLDS/YFZ property owners.

For years polygamists haven’t been prosecuted due to the argument that they aren’t hurting anyone but themselves. Now it is recognized that one of their most fundamental policies—taking all they can get through fraud and tax evasion

The state should be asking for birth certificates to verify the “claimed” children exist (I’m sure they do exist but then they’d know who the fathers are); then go after the ‘deadbeat’ Dads for child support.

These Polygamy sects shouldn’t be living off any public assistance.

These Polygamy sects shouldn’t be living off any public assistance.

There are approximately 12 million invaders in the US; why only go after a hundred or so Americans before you go after the 12 million invaders?  Answer: those Americans don’t have a pressure group to protect them.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

This is a complex issue for me:

1. I believe in the 1st Amendment and that people, under reasonable restrictions wherein public health and safety are involved, are not to be subjected to governmental interference. Even if we all agree with what the authorities did here, what will we say when the government decides to treat other religions with the same interference?
2. If there was clear, objective evidence that sexual or physical abuse of children was involved, or other criminal activity having nothing to do with the practice of faith of a religious group, then we have a responsibility to enforce the law and protect children. But, does one unsubstantiated telephone call or a series of calls from one person, having no other evidence that substantiated her charges provide sufficient grounds for invading this group, lying to the mothers, taking all the children away from their parents and even planning mass adoptions?
3. With a large number of Americans pushing for homosexual marriages, on what grounds can we say polygamous marriages should not be allowed?

It is easy to say ‘child abuse’ and then violate the Constitution to invade this group, it seems reasonable and rational; but I am deeply concerned about the First Amendment being violated on shaky grounds, all a pretext to invade a religious group that makes others feel uncomfortable.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

These Polygamy sects shouldn’t be living off any public assistance.

I agree, Anna, but it seems completely hypocritical to me to excuse this particular incident, which was originally justified by an anonymous phone “tip” alleging child sex abuse with this subsequent charge.
I’m sure I could arrest anyone on such a “tip”, turn their entire life upside down, and then find something, anything, to justify the original persecution.
I repeat, I want to see the same enthusiasm by those cops for the invaders and gangs in their territory before I give them any credit at all.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Neiman:  It would seem that the 4th Amendment barring unreasonable search and seizure is more applicable, or at least equally so.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The times, they are a-changin’...
Bob Dylan

ROB, heres your distinction
these are terrorists

Rob, this is a tank

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spiked, are you telling us that Mormons are cutting people’s heads off? Are you really that f-ed in the head?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Why don’t you try, at least attempt, to read the posts
before you ejaculate your profanity.

I was showing the distinction between Rob and Robert108
accusations that the police acted like terrorists and REAL terrorists...... get it??

Not to mention the difference between an assault vehicle (Tank) and an armored protection vehicle (apc in the laredo pic)

No, that ain’t what you said. And I now recognize you. You are Ben Klingston; Mall Guard. Thats where you get your vast pool of stupidity from! Being a caricature of a cop on a drivetime, FM rock radio show. Glad you decided to expand your horizons.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Real intelligent comeback pussy (your avatar is right on). First you misquote me then you insult me, what courage. Unfortunately trolls like you benefit from the bravery and sacrifice of cops and soldiers who put their asses on the line everyday so that you have the freedom to spew this crap.

Wow, Obamoid was right. You are a sad, bitter little person. And no, no thanks needed. It was my privilege to do my part to provide the freedom within which you have lived you sad, bitter little life.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Spike, first of all it would help if you didn’t put words in my mouth.  I never once said that the cops who raided that compound were “terrorists.” Robert108 did and I disagreed with him.

As for this:

Unfortunately trolls like you benefit from the bravery and sacrifice of cops and soldiers who put their asses on the line everyday so that you have the freedom to spew this crap.

I’d note that 2Hotel9 is, in fact, a veteran of no small amount of military service.  I’ll leave it to him to share the specifics with you if he so chooses, but he’s served his country and certainly isn’t deserving of your patronizing condescension.

Further, I’d note that hiding behind your service as a cop (and soldier? I can’t remember if you said you were a vet or not) is baloney.  We in America recognizing civilian authority over both the military and law enforcement.  As a citizen I have every right to criticize the manner in which cops do their job, and it is exactly the sort of arrogance you’re displaying on this site that makes me uncomfortable with cops dressing up and playing soldier.

There was no justification for the force on display during that raid.  I feel that terrorism is absolutely the wrong word for it, but it was excessive and shouldn’t have happened.

And I, as I’m sure what you consider a “mere citizen,” have every right to say that.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob, I’m not going to keep arguing about this. I called you out on some of your claims on the first post. You admitted you were wrong about a weapon being mounted on the apc. I pointed out the difference between an assault vehicle and a protective vehicle, yet you still claim it was a tank. You state I am arrogant and hiding
behind my service as a cop. WTF are you talking about? I gave my opinion and defended the police action in this raid, how is that hiding behind my service?? Never mind, your mind is made up. Sorry if you don’t like me telling it as it is. Check my posts when I responded to people that disagreed with me, but were civil. But the ones that became insulting got it right back. So that makes me arrogant, huh.
Say anything eh, so long as you don’t disagree.

Wow, spude Mcfartsalot, you don’t even keep track of who is banging you in the keister. No wonder everyone is laughing at you.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

There is no fuckin way a twisted unich like you has EVER served this country. You might fool most of the people on this site, but its plain to me what you are.
You couldn’t pass the entrance exam or the fortitude to pass boot camp. Even code pink would reject you. Go cough up a furball pussy....

Seems to me that many of the accusations against these people were the same ones used to justify the raid on the Davidians.  Interestingly if this raid had been done to the people of another country, many here in our country would have been outraged using the words gestapo tactics to describe the police action.

Today Rambo style law enforcement seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

The militarization of law enforcement is a major problem. When seen in other countries it always leads to abuse of citizens and usurpation of their rights. spude mcfartsalot is just okey dokey with that. As a leftarded Democrat that is its wetdream.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Spike,

I pointed out the difference between an assault vehicle and a protective vehicle, yet you still claim it was a tank. You state I am arrogant and hiding
behind my service as a cop. WTF are you talking about? I gave my opinion and defended the police action in this raid, how is that hiding behind my service?? Never mind, your mind is made up. Sorry if you don’t like me telling it as it is. Check my posts when I responded to people that disagreed with me, but were civil.

From your first comment in the original polygamist thread:

What a bunch of ass clowns. Its only an apc.

“Ass clowns” isn’t exactly a civil term, Spike.

As for hiding behind your service, you brought up the fact that police/soldiers protect the rest of us by way of saying that the criticism of police tactics is irrelevant.  I simply pointed out that a) nobody is saying that the cops/soldiers don’t protect us and b) as a citizen I have every right to be critical of police tactics.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Typical troll droppings:

Check my posts when I responded to people that disagreed with me, but were civil.

This from the same “man” who “civilly” states:

There is no fuckin way a twisted unich like you has EVER served this country. You might fool most of the people on this site, but its plain to me what you are.

What a nasty piece of work you are, Spike.

Spoken like a true inbred carrick, don’t throw shit if you can’t eat it..

The reality is that the “cult” was not receiving these “benefits”.  Members of “the cult” were.

So what we have is that leadership of said “cult” were simply informing their constituents of the benefits that they were legally entitled to as citizens.  I think that the individuals had the right to claim any benefits that they were legally entitled to.  The “cult” may have controlled multimillion dollar assets, but the individuals live in relative poverty.  Drive through Colorado City sometime.  10,000 people.  No grocery store.  No real jobs.  A few ranches, but not a lot of high paying industry.

Matter of fact, Colorado City is approximately 40 miles from the Navajo Reservation.  Northern Arizona is a vast and barren wasteland.  But it is home to these folks.  And the individuals that live there are no less entitled to welfare or AHCCCS than the illegal in my ER in Phoenix.

Stop using this kind of shit as a justification.  They were not committing fraud.  If fraud is occurring, it is individual fraud, not some kind of cult conspiracy.  And since polygamy is illegal, these plural wives and their associated children are not entitled to any of the assets of the husband.  None.  And for the most part, these polygamous families live in abject poverty on par with how the Indians live next door.

Take a drive from Page to Kanab to St. George.  Drive through Fredonia.  And then spout of the welfare statistics on the non-polygamists there.  Start showing me all the “cult wealth” that people make it out to be.

Justin, I think you’re missing the point.  Yes, it could be argued that they weren’t that wealthy--and certainly a few million bucks among hundreds of people really isn’t that much.

That said, there are a multitude of crimes hidden in that welfare data.  To wit:

1.  Statutory rape; how many TANF applications are there for girls 18 years old and younger?  How many WIC, etc.., when they had the right to expect support from the father?

2.  TANF/WIC fraud; filing for aid when the father was in a position to make child support--and was de facto married to the mother.

3.  Polygamy laws.  Agree with ‘em or not, they’re on the books.

4.  Childcare assistance fraud; using “childcare” as a “job” for TANF and then filing for childcare assistance for one’s own children while taking care of one’s own kids.

5.  Medicaid fraud--asking for help when (again) one’s husband ought to be providing medical care.

6.  Child abuse & neglect--reports indicate that juvenile boys are often kicked out when they get interested in girls.

...and the list goes on about what you could (and I’d guess will) find.  Yes, it’s not proven yet, but if other reports I’ve seen on polygamist societies are indicative, finding this is pretty likely.

And for what it’s worth, a good look at welfare rolls in any county would likely find a lot of this.

By all means, Bubba.  We should just round the lot of them up and shoot them.  No trials, no evidence, no nothing.  Just a false witness.

Does that summarize your position?

Spike:

There is no fuckin way a twisted unich like you has EVER served this country. You might fool most of the people on this site, but its plain to me what you are.

The only one throwing shit is you.  I assume that is because you have shit for brains.

BB: If everything you allege is true(or even some of it) and if it’s proven in court after a fair trial, then go get them.  The fact is that these people are already being punished, along with their children, without benefit of a trial.
Meanwhile, invaders and gangs get away with all that and more, but no one is mounting a military-type operation to get them.  I think those people were an easy target, when getting real criminals might have been dangerous.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Robert108.  I have made this point a few times before.  Glad to see you did it in an even more pointed way

instead they make a showboat attack on citizens they know won’t shoot back

2Hotel9--Clinton didn’t even let our guys in Somalia use tanks!

Communism is evil

By all means, Bubba.  We should just round the lot of them up and shoot them.  No trials, no evidence, no nothing.  Just a false witness.

No, but does this mean the crimes should be ignored and forgotten now?

Anna:

No, but does this mean the crimes should be ignored and forgotten now?

If by “ignore” you mean bring those responsible to a trial by their juries, then why yes of course.

*** trial by their peers.

LOL.

No, but does this mean the crimes should be ignored and forgotten now?

You seem to forget that there are only allegations of crimes until a trial and conviction has taken place, thus Carrick’s wry comment.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Clinton didn’t even let our guys in Somalia use tanks!

Excellent point, Chief!

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

I’m guessing all we can do is wait and see. Meanwhile, I hope you guys are right and there’s nothing but innocence behind those locked gates of YFZ.
Well shooooot… after all, why should we care if they ain’t hurtin’ us… right?

Carrick; I can’t prove all that I suggested, obviously, but a polygamous society does need to make sure that the polygamists get their girls.  Hence, there are certain things that must happen to get rid of young men and keep the girls there, despite the fact that the man taking his tenth wife is not exactly Prince Charming at 55 years of age with a potbelly.  Other things must go on to support all those women and children.

If that is the case, there is nothing wrong with social services stepping in before convictions to protect the children--which would include some of their mothers.

If it’s not, I’ll be as ticked as you at a fusillade of lies. My hunch is that there is some fire beneath this smoke.

What of the concept of “probable cause”.  Any immature, lying female can now make an accusation with no substance and it is probable cause to uproot entire families, forceable take away children from their parents?  We went through this in the 1980s.  These activist judges must be disbarred.

Communism is evil

A lot of people, men and women, sleep around often producing children out of wedlock in multiple instances.  When I was a student in college, an male acquaintance managed to get 3 female students pregnant that the same time. (I am not making this up).  Really how does this differ significantly from polygamy except that those in polygamy relationship usual care for their children.  In the face of a society dedicated to sexual freedoms, this whole affair has a hypocritic smell.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

My hunch is that there is some fire beneath this smoke.

Punishing people on a “hunch” is not the rule of law.
You shouldn’t be punishing them first, then looking for justification afterward.  This was wrong.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

108, my point is that my hunch is that the officers are not operating on a hunch, but on some fairly solid evidence, say that which can be extracted from welfare case files.  In other words, the reason the evidence seems so scanty to us is that the police are looking to try the case in the courts, not the court of public opinion, and hence they’re not telling journalists everything they know right now.

And again, if this isn’t the case, I will be as mad as anyone about this.  Hopefully this is simply a case where the police are actually keeping a few cards close to the vest.

BB: I honor your hunch, but the circumstances don’t seem to verify it.  This was done with a lot of flash and filigree, with the police and the MSM in full smear mode.  The story about the anonymous call from a teenage girl produced the requisite justification for urgent action, and the group was roundly smeared as a “polygamist cult” of “fundamentalist Mormons”.  In other words, “evidence” was presented in abundance, which seems to counter your hunch that the police are concealing evidence out of some desire for restraint.
I also posted an article on the Reader Blogs about the call itself being entirely bogus, which also casts doubt on your theory.
My hunch is that this is part of the MSM to paint all groups of Christians as being dangerous fundamentalists, equivalent to the fundamentalist Islamists who are a real threat to our way of life.  It’s called desensitization, I think.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

108, there was a trial a few years back of a guy named Warren Jeffs, I believe, in which this group called themselves by that name and made clear that their practices were cultic and abusive.

Again, I concede fully that the evidence most people are talking about does not in itself justify what was done.  However, others who have looked at the aggregate welfare data for the county do note that there has been a huge spike in cases in the past few years.  If they’re playing their cards right, there will be more than enough evidence.

108, there was a trial a few years back of a guy named Warren Jeffs, I believe, in which this group called themselves by that name and made clear
that their practices were cultic and abusive.

Punishment by association?

Again, I concede fully that the evidence most people are talking about does not in itself justify what was done. However, others who have looked at the aggregate welfare data for the county do note that there has been a huge spike in cases in the past few years. If they’re playing their cards right, there will be more than enough evidence.

I guess it’s nice to be able to arrest people with great fanfare, tear their families apart, and then leisurely dissect their lives, looking for evidence to justify what you have already done to them.  I don’t think our justice system is supposed to work this way, is it?  Maybe I didn’t get the memo.  /sarcasm

I’m not commenting on their guilt or innocence, which, btw, has not been legally established.
They have already been punished without benefit of trial.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

No, not punishment by association, but it was this very group that produced Jeffs.  See why that’s significant in describing this group?

Again, if the welfare data don’t show what it ought to show, I’ll be calling for heads to roll, too.  However, there is evidence that it should show quite a bit of abuse, statutory rape, and so on.

See why that’s significant in describing this group?

No.  It’s only significant if you establish an actual cause and effect relationship.  You should know that.

...it should show quite a bit of abuse, statutory rape, and so on.

It might imply those things, but still isn’t direct evidence.
I imagine that if we took any random group of that size and examined their lives with a microscope, we could find some evidence that they might have done something wrong at some point in time.  That’s not the way things are supposed to be done, and you know it.  There’s this thing in the Constitution about “not being deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.” No matter how you slice it, this was not “due process”.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

docdave, the difference I see and have a problem with is the girls you’re referring to .. willingly had sex with a partner they were not arranged to breed with and be available to his sexual beck and call for the remainder of their lives. It’s also doubtful that the people you’re exampling were not underage having sex with guys 20 plus years older with the purpose of popping out as many children that’s physically possible before the old man kicks the bucket.
I bet that reality is far from the goal you’re acquaintance had in mind.
These polygamists have so many children the siblings have no clue who they are related to and they can’t even tell you how many siblings they have.
If I remember correctly, The residence of the Charles Manson commune were quite happy living their way of lives too. The Rajneeshpuram commune residence were happy too. The thing they all have in common is their blatant defiance towards the gov’t and they ALL seem to be able to get away with breaking the law just because of the “they aren’t hurting others so leave them alone” concept.
Personally, I’m tired of living life by the law while people like these cult communes get away with criminal activities by hiding behind their so called civil rights and religious claims.
When was the last time the IRS paid a visit to the commune, or when was the last threat of foreclosure due to not paying property taxes, or when was the last DSHS visit checking on the living arrangements of welfare recipients? All this is done to normal citizens in society why is it not required of those on the inside of those lock compound walls?

The behavior of a group, as exhibited in the trial of one of its members, cannot be used to describe it later?  Say what?

And no amount of evidence provided from welfare data would suffice to do this?  Really?  Not even thousands of child support checks issued to pay for kids to live with their own mothers?  Not TANF to 100 14 year old women and their children?  Not WIC and food stamps to a community that had more than adequate resources of its own?  Not, say, 150 young men kicked out of the community in the past few years?

(there are likely consequences of the way this group lived--not proven, but very likely)

I would agree that it’s a shame that we’re not taking a closer look everywhere at such records.  However, that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done here.

Clinton didn’t even let our guys in Somalia use tanks!

E7 RZ.  U.S. tanks were used in Somolia!  The first unit in theater was a MEU and they had a platoon of tanks(4).  Which were landed by LCAC’s and deployed in the city.  Not that it really matters. 

Just goes to show some will spew nothing but crap to try and make a point.

...while people like these cult communes get away with criminal activities by hiding behind their so
called civil rights and religious claims.

You have it backwards, Anna.  No one is “hiding behind...civil rights” here; it’s about sloppy police work.  If these people are really guilty of all this, it should have been able to be established so that probable cause was demonstrated before arresting them, not afterward, as is being done here.  This is a legal protection for all of us, whether you realize it or not.  Punishing people without following legal procedures, including a trial, threatens us all.
Whether you know it or not, you are supporting a lynch mob approach here.  “We know they’re guilty, let’s just hang ‘em!”

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

I would agree that it’s a shame that we’re not taking a closer look everywhere at such records. However, that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be
done here.

You stated that such records would be proof of rape and child abuse, when they might, at best, imply those acts.  Direct evidence would be necessary for proof.  By “direct evidence” I mean either forensic evidence of those acts, and/or direct eyewitness testimony of those acts.  Understand?

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

A welfare application and a DNA test would prove statutory rape, 108.  The other partner of the DNA test would demonstrate welfare fraud as well.

Read the articles closely.  The seizure of people followed the seizure of records at the ranch.  This isn’t “no evidence,” but rather “holding the cards close to the vest.”

As they should.

A welfare application and a DNA test would prove statutory rape, 108. The other partner of the DNA test would demonstrate welfare fraud as well. It would constitute compelling evidence, but not absolute proof, and you should know that.

Read the articles closely. The seizure of people followed the seizure of records at the ranch. This isn’t “no evidence,” but rather “holding the cards close to the vest.”

BB, I think you’re getting lost in your desire to win an argument.  You know this is not proper law enforcement procedure; lynch mob mentality isn’t the way we’re supposed to do things.  The raid was justified by the seriousness of the charges, not the weight of evidence obtained by a thorough investigation, and punishment was administered without benefit of trial and conviction.  Fact.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

A DNA test linking a 15 year old mother and her two year old son to the 50 year old father wouldn’t convince you of statutory rape?  Say what?

A DNA test linking a 15 year old mother and her two year old son to the 50 year old father wouldn’t convince you of statutory rape? Say what?

Not if they are legally married; in some states, parental permission is sufficient.  Is this a real case, or something you just made up to try to win an argument?
Maybe you don’t understand the legal definition of proof.  With the proper presentation in court, and without any effective opposing evidence, the story you presented would certainly be compelling to a jury, and might lead to a conviction, but not alone.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

You know, BB, you just don’t seem to get it: these people have been tried, convicted and sentenced in the “court of public opinion”, not a real court with rules of evidence and cross-examination of both witnesses and other evidence.  Do you really want to be subjected to that same treatment?

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Whether you know it or not, you are supporting a lynch mob approach here.  “We know they’re guilty, let’s just hang ‘em!”

Not at all .. my concern is the fact of the matter as of right now. They are in the middle of this situation so where do we go from here? I say take advantage of it and get to the bottom of any and all illegal activities.

Not if they are legally married; in some states, parental permission is sufficient.

If we are still speaking on the issue of the YFZ cult then chances are they are not legally married and therefore these perverted men are rapists.

First of all, the age of consent in Texas is 17, so a 15 year old mother would qualify as evidence of statutory rape.  DNA evidence would complete enough for me to vote to convict, for sure.

Second, the point I’m making here is that the police, by withholding for now some of the most explosive evidence that can be marshalled against this group, are actually holding back from trying them in the media. 

Yes, it’s never pretty when kids are taken away from their parents.  However, in some cases it’s appropriate--and polygamous societies tend to qualify because of what they do to keep 15 year old girls from falling in love with the 15 year old boys they’d ordinarily choose, and get them to “marry” 50 year old men.

First of all, the age of consent in Texas is 17, so a 15 year old mother would qualify as evidence of statutory rape. DNA evidence would complete
enough for me to vote to convict, for sure.

Two words: parental permission.

Maybe you confuse “evidence” with ”prima facie evidence”.  I also notice that you started out asserting that it was “proof"(with which I properly disagreed), and now you speak of it as “evidence” which is the correct term.

Those people have still been punished without benefit of trial.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

If we are still speaking on the issue of the YFZ cult then chances are they are not legally married and therefore these perverted men are rapists.

“...chances are...” Not a legal justification for the punishment they have already received.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

“...chances are...” Not a legal justification for the punishment they have already received.

Well… the father is older by 20 some years and is already married so, my bet is on the not legally married verdict.
But hey, If you’re willing to still believe they are legally married, I have some fantastic Alabama ocean front land (at one time included a home), but I’ll sell it cheap ‘cause I bet you’re willing to believe it won’t get pulverized by the next hurricane huh? Always the optimist aren’t ya, Robert

Well… the father is older by 20 some years and is already married so, my bet is on the not legally married verdict.

Legally, the punishment is supposed to come after the verdict, not before any verdict, as in this case.

But hey, If you’re willing to still believe they are legally married…

I have never said anything of the kind; what I keep saying is that they have been punished without trial.
Changing the subject and making even more unproven accusations against them doesn’t justify what has already been done.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Is this where the Democrats come by to tell us that it’s for the children?

They took away our choice. The Democrats forced us to fund this lifestyle.

Thanks for nothing, Dems.

Hahahahahaha.

Yeah, this is all the Dems fault.  Nice one Liqwid!

This is just what we have come to expect from our Republican counterparts.  They exercise no personal responsibility.  Because it was all a facade to pretend they cared about it.

Yep, it is all the fault of Democrats. Must be that time again, 12 hrs.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem