Well, here’s the link for the birth certificate: http://moniquemonicat.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/obama-birth-certificate1.jpg

“These are YOUR words, and it is whining. Also, I never said ANYTHING about Obama’s citizenship. You did.”

Well first off, that’s not whining. I mean it; stop complaining about nothing. I find it highly unnecessary to label me as a “liar” and use “liberal” as some sort of insult. Please, just quit while you’re at it.

And I never said you first mentioned it. But you found it necessary to respond and harp on my rhetoric and not the facts of the matter.

When you say things like “Obama is a marxist idiot,” or anything similar to that about 20x, I’m pretty sure that’s whining.

Look at what you’ve brought this discussion to: picking at other people’s words. Stick to facts.

There was never a substantial amount of differences between the budgets proposed by Reagan and Congress at the time. He never proposed a cut in the total budget, or an actual balanced budget for that matter. And cuts in taxes (primarily for the rich) negatively affected the federal budget altogether.

You’re correct when you say the poor didn’t necessarily get poorer (that’s a mistake on my part). However, they certainly didn’t get much better. He only managed to reduce the poverty rate by 0.2% if you look at 1980 and 1989 respectively. And compared to economic times in the 1970s regarding poverty rates, Reagan was worse.

Well the Republican solution seems to be tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts…mostly for the upper classes. In an economic environment where no one wants to buy much of anything, putting more money in the hands of people does nothing. They would probably try to save the money instead, and spend as little of it as possible (but given the state of banks people are skeptical of even that).

At least the government has the power to create new projects that necessitate the need to create new jobs, thus creating a more stable economy. More jobs=less unemployment=money earned=higher likelihood to spend some of that money. You know the volcano monitoring and high-speed rail projects Jindal was belittling? Not only will that create many new jobs, but it will also put our country back on the path to progress (as opposed to the woeful stagnation that has characterized the last few years). This requires WISE spending, not the kind of spending Bush did, driving money into the military at the cost of every other sector. Government spending is not some sort of four-letter word, if well-thought out, and well-meaning.

leftisk07 – And cuts in taxes (primarily for the rich) negatively affected the federal budget altogether.

Yeah, they pay almost all of the taxes so therefore any tax rate cut can be class-envy demagogued as “for the rich”.

Can you show or explain how it “negatively affected the federal budget altogether”?

You’re correct when you say the poor didn’t necessarily get poorer (that’s a mistake on my part). However, they certainly didn’t get much better. He only managed to reduce the poverty rate by 0.2% if you look at 1980 and 1989 respectively.

Is that the President’s job? To reduce poverty?

Who knew?

And compared to economic times in the 1970s regarding poverty rates, Reagan was worse.

Really? Wow! Can you show the figures?

Saroj – In an economic environment where no one wants to buy much of anything, putting more money in the hands of people does nothing. They would probably try to save the money instead, and spend as little of it as possible (but given the state of banks people are skeptical of even that).

How do they save it? And therein lies all of the difference in the world.

If they put it under their mattresses or otherwise hold onto it in such a manner and decide to lose out to inflation, what you say has merit. If they save it by putting it in a bank or investing it, then that money gets moved around and utilized.

Far from the money doing “nothing” (not like it’s yours anyways there bud), the money has to be put into the market or else the holder of the money watches as his wealth shrinks with inflation.

We have no way of knowing how photoshopped the online version is; the only real proof would be the actual copy of the long form version, with the State seal. So far, he hasn’t produced that one.

WillHuntForFood, ignorance is not a comeback.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20030124ar03p1.htm

The year he wrote that entry was the year after FDR attempted to maintain a balanced budget DURING A DEPRESSION, his worst move economically.

“Go sell stupid someplace else.”

Immaturity gets you nowhere, my fellow American.

Saroj – Democrats stood behind Bush, even though we hated his policies…

You have outed yourself as nothing but a liar.

So much for that “no nonsense” bullshit you were peddling.

I’m sorry…Barack Obama isn’t a real American? Why?

Well, there’s a village in Kenya that claims it is Obama’s birthplace, for starters. Even if he was actually born in America, his ideology is Marxism, which is unAmerican, as it is collectivist, while America is individualist. A very basic and fundamental difference. Americans know that the economy is the private sector, and the govt is financially dependent on productive Americans who pay their taxes, while Obama obviously thinks that the govt is the economy.
Barack Obama lacks real American values and principles. He disapproves of our Constitution, and thinks he is the Supreme ruler, rather than the head of the Executive Branch of a govt that is supposed to serve the people; he seems to think the American public is there to serve him, as he dines on wagyu steaks with his thermostat turned up to “Hawaii” while the Americans he is supposed to be serving tighten their belts and turn down their thermostats because he continues to restrict domestic energy development.

Why should all of the values of the people that support him reflect the views of Obama?

If an anti-Semite supports him, does that automatically make Obama an anti-semite?

If a KKK member supported Obama, does that make him racist in any manner whatsoever?

I’m good friends with many conservatives. Does that make me think like them? Does that mean they can easily influence me?

No.

You’re thinking in absolutes. Obama doesn’t have to believe in his believers. They believe in him. That’s a flawed logic on your part. The length of the relationship doesn’t mean anything. He has the ability to disagree.

“We are stuck with a destructive person tearing down our country on account of an ignorant electorate that allowed themselves to be propagandized by a corrupt and biased media and you say its pointless guilt by association.”

Destructive? Tearing down? You’ve yet to say how. Biased media… why even bother bringing that up? He’s in office, and whether you like it or not, you’re going to have to deal with it.

You’ve yet to give me anything factual regarding Obama’s policies. Do you really think that way?

“…in 1999 Bill Clinton directed Barney Franks and Chris Dodds to modify the Community Reinvestment Act to loosen up lending rules through punitive measures to banks who did not comply. So it was the democrats who deregulated the mortgage industry. Bush warned against this 7 or 8 years ago. You can google a video of Bush speaking about this on utube.”

Do you know the specific legislation that changed the Community Reinvestment Act? It was the Gramm-Leach Bliley Act, which repealed the second Glass-Steagall Act (which btw, I had mentioned earlier in this discussion as a mistake on Clinton’s part) as proposed by the Republican Senator, the nitwit Phil Gramm.

Oh and WillHuntForFood, thanks for giving a heck that she pulled the race card. The fact you care just shows your opinion on how much it’s used. You’re an idiot for putting yourself in that kind of a position.

And likwidshoe, from the looks of it, you don’t even attempt to stand behind the current president. America (and no, I didn’t stutter when I said America, look at his lack of approval ratings) began to go against him the moment his idiotic policies were brought into the lime-light. Did Democrats harp on Bush during September 11th? Only starting with the War on Iraq, which really escalated after Saddam was captured. So much for that.

From the Constitution:
“No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

Obama’s been a citizen for more than fourteen years. Get over it.

President Obama has zero business experience or sense (unless you count pay-to-play arrangements or public-housing scandals with felon Tony Rezko).
-
He puts together a cabinet with no CEOs or anybody else that could upstage the comprehensively unaccomplished Obama. Obama unviels wild spending plans embedded with pork-n-welfare totalling trillions of dollars… when we are already running record deficits.
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After this, he holds some fake summit to (with a straight-face) portray himself as a deficit-hawk. Such profligate spending has no historical precedent of success in stimulating the economy ever, so the stock market shrinks-back in horror.
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Although the MSM has so much invested in his success that they can no-longer afford anything resembling a balanced perspective, SOME journalists and talk-show hosts come out publicly against his plans… so he launches attacks, including paid TV ads against them. (can you imagine the uproar if W had done this?)
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When the GOP members of Congress that Obama promised for over a year to work with in a new, post-partisan manner voice their concerns, he tells them “I’ll trump you on that” and “I won”.
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Obama is ramming-through a far left agenda he knows we can’t afford, so later will “have to” crank-up taxes to eye-watering Swedish levels when inflation hits 10% and the dollar tanks… thereby running through the back-door the soaking of the job-creating “rich” that he dreamed of doing while “burning one” with is Marxist professors.
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IMO, expect a stale economy, high taxes, high inflation, international embarrassments, endless ethics issues… followed by a Democratic bloodbath in the 2010 mid-terms.
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Obama’s support might not be waning yet, but Wall St. looks-out 6-12 mos ahead… and what they’re saying is that the economy will be in the toilet in the midst of the 2010 mid-term campaign. As for 2012, the GOP could win 40+ states running Barney the dinosaur.

Timmy the Tax Cheat Geitner

TurboTax® Tim! Heh.

Do not pick a fight with me on a website for god’s sake: the partisanship makes me cringe.

These are YOUR words, and it is whining. Also, I never said ANYTHING about Obama’s citizenship. You did.

Um… tax cuts decrease tax revenues, and fails in productivity compared to methods like spending and, yes, food stamps.

Reagan’s policies were a complete flop. All he essentially did was just increase debt and leave us in a stock bubble. The rich got richer, and the poor got poorer. That’s not even true or fake prosperity. It’s poor economic decisions.

And WWII didn’t pull us out. Have you seen the first six years worth of New Deal policies? Unemployment rates declined rapidly, and WWII only accelerated spending and increased jobs. It was essentially an extension of the New Deal.

And under Clinton, deficits declined from 1992-1997, poverty rates decreased, and national debt leveled out. The main mistake Clinton made was repealing the Glass Steagall Act for, unfortunately, “political” reasons.

http://ssk001.wordpress.com

my fellow American.

You are NOT my fellow American. You are a liberal. And a liar. Your response is spin and lies.

You refuse to see the larger picture. America’s economy is obviously trash.

I see a larger picture than you think I do. I see my country being brought down by a tool named Obama who had the presidency purchased for him by George Soros so that Soros could be the Shadow President. I see Soros running this country into the ground so he can promote his new world order agenda of a world without borders. I don’t care if you think I’m a paranoid nut or not. Soros is an evil man who will stop at nothing to have power over us all.

The entire point is that even IF he wasn’t born here, that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be president because he’s still a citizen of the U.S. It really doesn’t matter.

Alinsky was a progressive liberal, not a Marxist.

How do you know how much Wright influenced Obama, if any at all? Guilt by association never works.

http://snmiller.newsvine.com/_news/2008/05/05/1470440-need-guidance-on-whether-note-is-fact-or-fantasy-on-obamas-mother

Not even close regarding Obama’s mother.

I’m gonna stop commenting after this post, because clearly things will just get too hectic and the majority of you will never understand a word of what comes out of my mouth.

I’m sorry, did YOU call me a whiner? What have you been doing this entire discussion?

leftisk07 – Think: if you give tax relief to people who control most of the wealth in this country, the gap between the rich and poor just gets larger.

Think: the poor are a baseline. They do not move up. When you decry “the gap between the rich and the poor” getting larger, what you are decrying is growing wealth.

“Think”, indeed. Would you start?

I’m always amazed at those who decry both poverty and wealth. You can’t have it both ways.

He only managed to reduce the poverty rate by 0.2%…

Even with your cherry-pick, he was measurably better than LBJ and his wasteful “War on Poverty”. You repeat the leftie lie that tax rate cuts are “primarily for the rich”; the truth is that tax rate cuts are more for people who actually do the job of supporting this country. Contrary to your lie, no money is “given” to the wealthy; they, and everyone else, gets to keep more of what they earn, rather than having it confiscated by a greedy govt. It is their money, not the govt’s, after all.
Reagan got us out of the Carter debacle, which featured double digit inflation, unemployment and interest rates. He accomplished plenty, including rebuilding the military after Carter gutted it with his cowardice and attempts to appease our enemies. Reagan also defeated the Soviet Union. What was that worth? You whine about “balanced budgets”, while Dems continue their wasteful social spending, which never pays its own way, but is done on the backs of the taxpayers. To “balance the budget” is only meaningful if that wasteful spending is eliminated or reduced, while continuing to do the tasks that our govt is supposed to be doing, like national defense. Dems always do it the other way around, with the accompanying economic damage.

I’m surprised that he, Geithner, had any credibility to lose.

Well the Republican solution seems to be tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts…mostly for the upper classes.

Again with the lies! The conservative solution is to stop the govt looting the private sector, so that it can do what it does best: create wealth for everyone who participates. It’s true that the parasites don’t get as much, but they don’t do as much, so that’s simply economic justice.
We don’t have “upper classes” in this country, at least not stratified hereditary ones, so your comment is bullshit. Prosperity is available to everyone who makes the effort, but you lefties want to equalize outcomes, which kills the incentive to excel, which is why you always produce a stagnant economy.
Tax rate cuts, which always increase tax revenues, are only one part of fiscal conservatism, and a relatively minor part. The real deal is to stop the govt distorting markets with punitive taxation and regulation, and to let the markets produce prosperity.
A very large part of the conservative economic agenda is to remove the Dem restrictions on domestic development of all energy sources. These restrictions have cost us trillions in lost revenue and millions of jobs over the last thirty years. Without that, despite the Dem meddling in the housing market for social engineering purposes, we wouldn’t be in this mess we are in today, and we would have a real American in the White House.

Bush screwed up the American economy due to war expenditure in the middle east amounting to trillions.

A common leftie meme, which they refute with their own bullshit about “war profiteering” and their praise of Obama’s fascist deficit spending to “stimulate” the economy”.
If Obama’s deficit spending will stimulate the economy, why didn’t President Bush’s do the same? If was is so bad for the economy, how did it pull us out of the FDR Depression, and why isn’t it “war profiteering? You guys can’t get anything right.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html

Actually, Lyndon Johnson, and yes, Jimmy Carter (regarding poverty rates) did a heck of a lot better than Reagan.

I never said the money was “given” to the wealthy. But there were tax “increases” on the middle class during Reagan’s administration (bracket creep). You know… the people who actually “do the job of supporting this country.”

http://www.miseryindex.us/urbymonth.asp

The lowest and highest unemployment rates of Jimmy Carter were 5.8% and 9% respectively.
The lowest and highest unemployment rates of Ronald Reagan were 5.3% and 10.8% respectively.

In other words, unemployment rate fluctuated more under Reagan than Carter. And reducing inflation wasn’t because of Reagan, but because of Paul Volcker of the Federal Reserve.

Do you even know how effective spending is? http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Economic_Stimulus_House_Plan_012109.pdf … page nine says it all.

“To “balance the budget” is only meaningful if that wasteful spending is eliminated or reduced, while continuing to do the tasks that our govt is supposed to be doing, like national defense. Dems always do it the other way around, with the accompanying economic damage.”

Well, let’s see. FDR and 1937… a balanced budget leads to a Roosevelt Recession. But then again, that was crazy unnecessary socialist spending, right?

Have any of you taken two seconds to look at Obama’s cabinet? Robert Gates (Independent), Ray LaHood (Republican), even Tim Geithner (Independent), with Geithner as the most prominent. There could’ve been more, but think: almost all conservatives would call any conservative supporters for Obama traitors.

I’m sorry, robert108, did you actually say FDR’s “commie crap” actually worsened the depression? Do you know what facts even are? It seems like bluntness is the only solution for people so far from the truth. And regarding government spending, above pdf says it all. And really, please grow up.

Think: if you give tax relief to people who control most of the wealth in this country, the gap between the rich and poor just gets larger. Trickle-down economics has no guarantees. What makes you sure the rich would invest in this country and not something produced in China?

“Is that the President’s job? To reduce poverty?”

I dunno, is his job to let it grow? :/

“How do they save it?”

That question can be directed to people getting tax cuts during this crisis. They’re probably not going to spend anything out of fear.

Relying on the market for solutions now, when the market is mainly responsible for this crisis, is a rather foolish idea.

“Again with the lies! The conservative solution is to stop the govt looting the private sector, so that it can do what it does best: create wealth for everyone who participates. It’s true that the parasites don’t get as much, but they don’t do as much, so that’s simply economic justice.”

Again with the idiocies. The best solution is to stop the private sector from looting America. Understand that first.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/11/obama_a_socialist_not_quite/

He’s increasing income tax rates on the rich between 3-5%. It’s essentially the same exact philosophy. Darn that evil socialist, 3-5% might just kill us all, eh?

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20090224/NEWS01/902240304/1002

Yeah, it looks as if there are energy provisions in the stimulus bill. Who would’ve thought?

Do you think you know what a real American is? You’re bickering with people you don’t even know about stuff you can’t handle, nor apparently fully understand. Isn’t the entire motto based on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Isn’t a real American able to do anything he wants because when a dream seems impossible, then it must be an American dream?

Well the Republican solution seems to be tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts…mostly for the upper classes.

You say that like giving tax relief to those who pay the most in taxes is a bad thing.