Christmas Holiday Open Thread

miniature-christmas-tree1

Posting will be light over the next couple of days as I enjoy the Christmas holiday with my friends and family.

I hope you and yours have a wonderful holiday as well, whatever your political stripe.

Regular posting will resume later this week. Until then, feel free to talk among yourselves.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

Related posts

  • yy4u2

    Here’s an outside observation of Sandy Hook and gun control. It’s mid-article and the Larken Rose vid touches on some good points.

    Merry Christmas every one. We can debate/argue more after the celebration of the birth of Jesus. Well, not to offend any one, but that’s what I’m going to do.

    http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/12/22/the-weekend-vigilante-december-22-2012.html

  • $8194357

    Merry Christmas and happy Holidays.
    It is one day closer to His Return than ever before…
    God Bless now, Hear?

    • banjo kid

      God bless you and your family 7.62 . Sometimes I want the Lord to return today but if one can be saved though I be in pain, stay the day for them .

  • kevindf

    Merry Christmas and happy new year to my fellow SAB posters. I wish you a profitable new year! (:^)

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Profits?

      How greedy of you, Kevin.:-)

  • http://randysroundtable.blogspot.com/ Randy G

    Merry Christmas Rob, to your family and your co-conspirators here…Heh.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Co-conspirators…ha!

  • borborygmi

    Merry Christmas to all “Tis the Season for your Reason” May the coming new year bring you peace and comfort, may your family and friends be blessed.

  • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

    Merry Christmas everybody, even you Neiman!

    • Neiman

      Your wish above is totally false, it is a most damnable lie on your part, it is a demonic game with you. You are a LIAR from hell and nothing you ever utter is the truth, there is no truth in you.

      I do NOT wish you a merry Christmas, I only wish a sufficient horrific calamity in our life, just enough as is barely necessary to drive you to your knees in repentance from your wickedness and your seeking Jesus as your Savior and Lord. That is the best gift you could receive for Christmas, enough horror in your life to humble you and drive you to Christ before it is too late.

      Other than that, I wish God would silence you that you will stop lying souls into hell and cast those demons that possess you from you. I want no prayers to your pig god from you or your wishes, they are all excrement, as are you.

      • Jeremiah Glosenger

        Wow! I certainly don’t know the basis and justification for this response; regardless, Jesus taught “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” We must forgive each other if we are to be forgiven. May Christ’s love and example penetrate the hearts of men across the world and across political differences in this most joyous season. May it melt away animosity and give us peace and a proper eternal perspective–for Jesus counseled, “in the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.”

        • Neiman

          While in most cases I agree conditionally with what you said, you said something else though very important: “I certainly don’t know the basis and justification for this response.” That is right, you do not know the history or basis at all and I am not going to recite it all now to make you feel better.

          How do you make peace, not with an enemy of mine, but with the Devil? You don’t! He knows no peace and will only turn and savage the Christian. In this person’s case, it is with a pretense of something he is not. He is a liar in the first degree, he is an enemy of Christ and the Church, he lies gays into hell telling them they are not sinning and denies them Christ and His Salvation by his lies. He supports the mass slaughter of helpless, innocent babies in the womb. He hates Israel. He is an admitted non-Christian and has so deceived an alleged friend of his, he is leading him into hell as well. This man is in league with demons.

          So, I wish him the greatest Christmas gift I can think of and the one he has already tossed away – Salvation. So, rather than playing games I am direct – I talk straight and blunt, what he first needs is so great a terrible trial in his life that he can be convicted by the Holy Spirit that like all men, he is a gross sinner needing salvation. Then on his knees from being broken he needs repentance to agree with God about his sins and seek His redemption. Then he needs to ask Jesus to be his savior and Lord that he might inherit eternal life. Any other gift, any wish for a material or emotionally good Christmas is to wish less for him than God’s very best.

          So, in dealing with him I am blunt, direct and will not play his demonic games. Unlike most pretend Christians, I refuse the saccharine sweet form of interaction, when what is needed is straight talk and no playing games with the demons that direct their lives, the kind of straight talk that might shock them out of their sleep walking and awaken in them a need for Salvation. Don’t like it? I am far from perfect, a sinner myself saved by grace and can only walk in the light as I see the light and leave my mistakes in God’s hands.

          This man is destroying souls, he needs Jesus and only a life shattering trial will ever break his haughty spirit, humble him before God and get to to cry out “God help me.” That is my desire for him, like it or not.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Neiman is more Westboro Baptist than he is Christian. Please excuse him, he does not know God.

          • Neiman

            If you were a Christian you would not make such wild accusations without biblical or other proofs that can be documented. You say you know God but deny Jesus as your Savior and Lord. You lie about homosexuality, insisting it is not a sin and thus oppose God. You approve of abortion, are by your vote an accessory to over 50 million child murders. You approve of God being kicked out of the public square. In every possible way you show yourself to be anti-Christ in spirit. So, before you spread more lies about me, offer proofs or add liar to your anti-Christian resume.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I will pray for you and your lost soul.

          • Neiman

            I do not want your prayers, you are not a self-confessed Christian – you have denied Christ, so your god cannot be Almighty God, the Creator of all things, from the Holy Bible – it is another, a false god.

            I have proven you are no Christian by your stated beliefs and the Bible, you have not proven I am not a Christian and cannot; as I am saved by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ Jesus alone and am born again of His Holy Spirit, and as Romans 8:1 tells us, I cannot ever come into any condemnation.

            It is sad that you cannot say the same. This isn’t about minor doctrinal differences, you are an accessory to mass murder and lie gays into hell, that is about as serious mortal sins as one can commit. You desperately need to admit you are a sinner worthy of hell (Conviction), seek forgiveness of your sins (Repentance) and ask Jesus to be your Savior (Conversion) and the absolute Lord of every part of your life and stop your bragged about fornications outside the marriage bed.

      • Zog

        What a perfect example of Christian love. LOL
        p.s. May you burn in hell, Neiman. And Merry Christmas to all the rest of you!

        • Neiman

          Actually it is Love, it is tough love to be sure, but it is God’s Love, to be sure it is not saccharine sweet liberal love or false liberal compassion that does not care about the eternal welfare of the person.

          You would prefer a false love that is sweet, kind and polite, polite even if it results in souls going to hell; which is the love this person rbb offers, pretending love he lies gays into hell, telling them that they are not sinning, when God calls it sin and condemns all that, unrepentant, engage in homosexuality. He calls abortion not the murder of helpless, innocent children but uses self serving euphemisms to jelly coat what is murder and unrepented, all abortion results in all involved choosing hell. He lies and says that we can be good and earn our way to salvation, when God says no one is good and all are sinners and need repentance in Christ, and in many such ways he lies souls into hell. Sorry Zog, that is not love, that is hate.

          If a parent sees their children doing things that can cause their death, if they love their children they will be frank and say what you are doing is wrong and if they do not change you will die and they cannot save them. That is real love, frank, direct, blunt and no sugar coating that the sinner might have the right labels applied to their actions that, a few might see the truth (Conviction), ask for forgiveness from God (Repentance) and seek Jesus as their Savior (Salvation). That is the love of God, straight talk, calling sin to be sin and calling the person to turn from that sin and find life in Christ.

          So, you are entitled to your opinion, but I will not see hell, as I have accepted Jesus as my Savior and Lord and according to God’s Word, will never come into judgment. Not because I am better than anyone else, I am not, but because of faith in God, faith in His Grace, and being born again in Christ Jesus.

          It is obvious by your wanting me to burn in hell, you do not know Christ and will not find eternal life unless you do repent and ask Him to be your savior before you die. I do not want rbb to go to hell, I want him to see the danger to his soul in his present lying course of actions, to see his own sins and how he is leading others to hell by his lies, to repent, find Christ and Life, but it will not come about by my sugar coating the Truth, he and you must accept your sinful nature as being hateful to God, repent and find Christ or after this life, it will be forever too late.

          • Zog

            If only I had your personal perfect wisdom! How wonderful it must be to be all-knowing and without blemish. Back in the day, I read translations of a few of Ayatollah Kromeini’s rants, and it would be very easy, with a few minor adjustments to make yours fit his pattern.
            Religion is the curse of mankind, It turns otherwise rational beings into hateful mutual enemies and is at the heart of most of the world’s current troubles, with tens of millions of people ready and willing to kill to satisfy their peculiar gods.

          • Neiman

            I have never claimed any particular wisdom and certainly not omniscience. So those are false charges, typical when one speaks with authority based on God’s Word. I do know the one Person with Perfect Wisdom and All-Knowledge and I have His book to guide me.

            No, may I suggest it is your hatred of Christ and the Church which twists your thinking that there is the slightest comparison between Christianity, Islam or other religions. None of the others presents a Savior Who would suffer and die for all of the world’s sins that, as a free gift, any man/woman that comes to Him by faith, may be saved. The rest of them require works of the flesh to gain Salvation.

            No true Christian is ready to kill anyone for their faith, they are ready to die for others, but never kill as they can find no justification in the life and words of Christ for such acts.

            Again, may I suggest it is your own hatred of Christ and His Church that makes you accuse Christians of hatred. To expose and oppose sin is not hate, it is to seek the Holy Spirit, thereby to awaken in the heart of the unbeliever the dangers to their everlasting souls that thereby Convicted in their own hearts, they might seek God’s forgiveness through Repentance and new, eternal life by Salvation in Christ Jesus. Of course, the person in sin and not having Christ will interpret such exposure of their sins as being hatred, as no one likes to feel bad about their life choices; but, rather than hatred, it is the highest form of God’s Love with the goal of saving souls and seeing them inherit eternal life with God.

            So, unfortunately all you have said is a most grievous error on your part. You will never see the truth until you can admit your sins against God and turn to Him and then Life and Love will fill your soul.

          • Zog

            I don’t hate Jesus, nor do I hate fairies, unicorns, Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.
            You think that your particular fantasy is superior to Islam. Of course you do! That is the nature of religion, and it is the same attitude that causes Muslims to sneeringly refer to people of your persuasion as “infidels”.

          • Neiman

            The Lord tells us that the opposite of love is not apathy, it is hate; if you do not love God, you hate Him. The only Being in all creation that does truly love you is Christ and Him you hate by rejecting Him.

            As to your other ill-informed comments, they are based on your ignorance and hate of Christ and His Church, not facts. One day you will stand before God and it will be too late, unless you give up your enormous ego and seek God first in this life.

          • banjo kid

            Are you saying The Christians go about killing their enemies ? if so please point out where we are doing this today and not the crusades either because that was of the devil and man not Christians ?I believe we are the ones being persecuted and the so called Koran you speak of is an evil book with no truth in it. Have you investigated the Bible ? have you sought the truth or are you like so many you follow blindly those that say it is a lie. Sure there are many stories of death in the bible but God knows the evil that was in those tribes that were destroyed. Just the prophecy contained in the KJV bible tells me it is true and factual. The coming Christ child was told of in the old testament as far back as the first few pages of Genesis. Psalms told of his death and the details of it . I am reading my third time through and it is an eye opener each time I see many things that I missed the first time. I wonder if any that say the bible is a lie have even read one bit of it . I implore you to seek the Lord, today is the accepted time . We are seeing prophecy fulfilled one after another, that should be a wake up call in its self . Am I perfect, “no” the only perfection in me is the spirit of God, other wise I fail miserably .

          • ellinas1

            “Are you saying The Christians go about killing their enemies ?”

            A few years back, some Christians went into Afghanistan and then Iraq to kill their enemies.
            They (the Christians) did not turn the other cheek as commanded by their Lord.

          • Neiman

            More of your anti-Christ lies! Banjo was saying, as I have often stated herein that, there is nothing in the words and actions of Christ, nothing in the New Testament that provides the slightest justification for those acts and thus those people were acting outside the Spirit of Christ and no charge can be made against the Christian faith.

            This is typical of you, a charge I have made and documented many times, when it is the world against Christianity that is where you stand, always, against Christ and with the world.

          • ellinas1

            Don’t tell me what banjo kid was saying for I can read.
            This is what he said: “Are you saying The Christians go about killing their enemies ? if so please POINT OUT WHERE WE ARE DOING THIS TODAY AND NOT THE CRUSADES either because that was of the devil and man not Christians?”

            You are either truly blind, or a spinner/propagandist…. Joseph Goebbels’ twin.
            This Christmas day. At least have the decency to not lie on this Holly Day.

          • Neiman

            In the first place, learn how to spell HOLY, not holly.

            Next, please do not pretend you have any regard for the day or for Christ, it all rings hollow from a known liar, a man that will not confess Jesus, that lies gays into hell, that approves of abortion and in kicking God out of the public square. Clean up your own wicked house before looking at others.

            Banjo correctly qualified his question by identifying any such people claiming Christianity and killing their enemies. ” was of the devil and man not Christians.” So, he makes you out to be the liar.

            Considering the wickedness of your horrible life, for you to pretend Christianity is a mockery. You need to be Convicted in your heart of your sins – admitting you are a sinner worthy on of hell, Repent of your sins – seeking God’s forgiveness and then be Converted before you dare judge any Christians.

          • ellinas1

            Merry Christmas, oh “holly” one.

          • banjo kid

            They went as protectors of America not as Christians but by what you are saying the Christians should lay back and allow them to kill us . By the same token we should submit to a murderous thug bent on killing your entire family . So any war we have fought all the way back to the revolutionary war was Christians killing the British right . Your argument is not even close to being an argument . Merry Christmas any way and have a good year, maybe Santa will bring you some brains.

          • ellinas1

            Pray tell where in the New Testament and in the teaching of Jesus says that the followers of Jesus should act as protectors of America or any country by killing the “enemy”?
            I do not agree to submit to a murderous thug bent on killing your entire family. I will kill ‘em before they get to you and yours.
            However that is antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and antithetical to Christianity. Eye for an eye is over… this is the era of turn the other cheek.

            And yes, on the face of it, every war America engaged in was a war in which Christians killed others.
            Merry Christmas,

          • Neiman

            Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). Here the “sword” (Greek:maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler’s equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense, listing in the second passages the many dangers facing them and the need for self defense.

            One can take that meaning further to include defending one’s family or nation, it not being murder or even with the desire to take life, but to save life. It is up to the conscience and level of spiritual maturity of believer and his own good Christian conscience whether he turns the other cheek or stands his ground to defend life. It is a matter of the heart, the intent and God’s knows our hearts.

            It always amazes me how you always stand with the world and against believers in Christ, there are no exceptions. In both recent replies Banjo was speaking from the heart, truthfully saying Christians in Christ’s Name do not kill in defense of their faith or to convert others, rather they die for that faith; while the same Christian in defense of home of family might be forced to take another life to save lives.

            In your every comment you show yourself an enemy of Christ and of His children, never in their defense. That is antichrist!

          • ellinas1

            Yep, yes sir, And after Luke 22:36-38 we have ample evidence that all the disciples started “packing” daggers, swords spears, longbows and nuclear bombs. Having secured ample armament they (the followers of Christ) went after their enemies killing them in the name of self defense. They, the disciples and followers of Christ, went out and killed anyone and everyone who was a threat to them,

            It always amazes me how you always find an obscure writing in the New Testament, a writing no other evangelist mentions and expound it to suit your beliefs.
            Merry Christmas.

          • Neiman

            I can only give you the Truth, but just as always attack, you always attack Christians and always stand with the world against Christ and His Church. You always reject the Bible, preferring your own frail, finite emotional reactions over His infallible Word. Then you ridicule any careful exposition of the Scriptures. I gave you much more than these passages and could have given you more, even from the Old Testament to show how God does not deny us a right to self defense or to defense of our country, as long as they do not violate God’s Word. I went further and spoke of spiritual maturity, acting according to one’s Christian conscience and the willingness to die for the faith. Yet, nothing ever moves you towards God and His Word, as you are an alien to Him and the Kingdom of God. His Word has no place in your heart.

            There is nothing I can do for someone like you that pretends a Christianity and in every way violates God’s Word. I pity you!

          • ellinas1

            I can only analyze your truth and put it in proper prospective.
            You and I have agreed about the relevance of the old testament concerning Christians. It does not apply.

          • Neiman

            No we have not agreed on anything.
            1. For a Christian analyzing all Truth, any Truth requires harmonizing it with God’s Word, a Word you mostly reject in favor of your emotions.
            2. No we do not agree the Old Testament has no relevance or application for the lives of Christians.
            It’s moral truths still apply, the prophecies of Christ and the End Times still apply, the Divine Wisdom for life contained therein still apply, while living under the Law to gain salvation does not apply, as we are under grace, those things taught by the Law still have value for our lives.

            What remains true is that the Bible is not your guidebook into all truth, the Bible that you edit to make it conform to your liberal ideology. What remains true is Jesus is not the center of your life, every day as touching everything. What remains true is that you are an enemy of Bible believing Christians and a friend with this wicked world. What remains true, is that by words and actions you have within you the spirit of anti-Christ.

          • ellinas1

            We did agree on the old testament being fulfilled, but if you refuse to acknowledge, have forgotten, and or changed your mind is not something important for me to argue about with you.

            Like I said before. You have your views, and I have mine.
            One has to analyze the Bible and corroborate it’s substance on anything with everything else contained therein.
            As you are fully aware there exist, in the Bible, many conflicting views and presentations of the events that have occurred.
            One has to reconcile all of the Bible and in the case of Christians especially the New Testament with what Jesus’ complete message is.
            If it doesn’t fit, it must be taken with a grain of salt, compared with what the other Evangelists said on the issue, and understood in it’s full context.

            One must ask hard questions as to why certain events are not reported by all evangelists, why certain events appear and are different from writer to writer. One has to question the acumen and sagacity of the writer without fear of their belief in Jesus being invalidated by the Bible not being the inerrant word of the Lord.
            One’s faith must be and is weak when one drops all logic for fear of discovering “it ain’t so.”

          • Neiman

            I explained above why the Old Testament is still important for a believer – I gave exact reasons, it remains God’s Holy Word and timeless, even Jesus and Paul spoke of Scripture, which could only at that time been the Old Testament, being still useful for teaching, correction and encouragement. If you refuse to acknowledge that and prefer to curse God’s Word in the Old Testament, that is up to you and your lost soul.

            No, I do not admit there are ANY conflicting views on Divine Truth in the Bible. Further, almost every seeming inconsistency have been reconciled and none remaining would have any effect on core doctrines. You just do not want to go to the work of biblical scholars to help you see how they have been resolved, from their exposition of the Bible. Hint, you will not find much truth in the Greek Orthodox Church.

            The problem is you are lying above, I dearly wish your appeal was only to the Bible and harmonizing all scripture, appealing to several evangelists, as touching any doctrine; but, you do not use the Bible to reconcile anything, I have never seen such an argument made by you; rather you use your liberal, secular emotions and Christ hating experts to accuse God of being unworthy of our trust. Example: You say that homosexuality being genetic was not known in the Bible days and so the Holy Spirit through Paul and other writers was in error, accusing God of error, accusing God of lying to His people when He condemns homosexuality and of not caring that the unvarnished Truth be told in His Word.

            If God’s Word has a single fault, a single error, He cannot be God at all, as that denies His omniscience and omnipotence, denying His very deity and saying Christianity is a lie. The Christian, which I fear by all the evidence, you are not, trusts God and rather than fear, simply waits patiently for God to help them resolve any questions through His Word alone, waiting on the Holy Spirit for His time and way. If we must appeal to frail, finite men outside the Bible to explain God’s Word and point out its errors by secular reasoning – it is all a lie, a hoax of such proportions that the hoax itself would be on the level of the miraculous. It involved a conspiracy of many, many writers over at least two millennium and it is impossible for such a hoax to hold up under those circumstances.

            Every time the subject is a Christian or comments by a Christian, you can be counted on to stand with the world against those Christians – ALWAYS. You oppose His word when He condemns homosexuality, you oppose His word when you support the mass murdering party that has murdered over 50 million babies, you support God being kicked out of the Public Square and on and on your every word opposes God’s Word, it opposes His children and testifies against your pretensions to having a Christian faith, as do your close association with an admitted non-Christian..

          • ellinas1

            The Founders on the issue of separation of church and state:
            “Believing
            with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man &
            his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his
            worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only,
            & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of
            the whole American people which declared that their legislature should
            make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the
            free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church
            & State.”

            “I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health
            by medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I
            cannot be saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor.”

            “Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own
            will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds;
            that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme
            will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible to
            restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments,
            or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of
            hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy
            author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose
            not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power
            to do, but to extend it by its influence on reason alone; that the
            impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as
            ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men,
            have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own
            opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as
            such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and
            maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and
            through all time: That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money
            for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is
            sinful and tyrannical; … that our civil rights have no dependance on
            our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or
            geometry; … that the opinions of men are not the object of civil
            government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil
            magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to
            restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of
            their ill tendency is a dangerous falacy [sic], which at once destroys
            all religious liberty … ; and finally, that truth is great and will
            prevail if left to herself; that she is the proper and sufficient
            antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict unless by
            human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and
            debate; errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to
            contradict them. We the General Assembly of Virginia do enact that no
            man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship,
            place or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained,
            molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer
            on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall
            be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in
            matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish,
            enlarge or affect their civil capacities …”

            “Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children,
            since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured,
            fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
            What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools
            and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the
            earth.”

            PS: I am not opposed to God being in the public square.
            I am opposed to your views being on the public square.
            Your views are oppressing and contrary to Gods love for man.
            You want to impose your views on all. I leave it up to the individual to make their own decisions concerning any and all religious matters

          • Neiman

            I have offered many quotes and I, unlike you, offered the actual author’s name for each quote; and, they uniformly did not believe in separation of Church and State – it is a lie.

            “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this – that it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” – John Quincy Adams

            *****************************
            “The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student’s perusal of the
            sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better
            husband.” – Thomas Jefferson

            *****************************
            “The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests.” – Andrew Jackson

            *****************************
            “In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the
            first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to
            be instructed.” – Noah Webster

            *****************************
            (UC) “We have staked the future of American civilization upon the
            capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” – James Madison

            *****************************
            (UC) “He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of
            primitive Christianity will change the face of the world.” – Benjamin
            Franklin

            *****************************
            (UC) “It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great
            nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on
            religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.” – Patrick Henry

            I have proven again that you lied by offering only selected, unattributed quotes.

            I have never advocated a theocracy, nor sought to impose my views on anyone and it is a lie that I do not teach the God of Love, just not you eros and phileo love you offer, but agape love that does not lie sinners into hell like you do.

          • ellinas1

            Thomas Jefferson: “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

            Thomas Jefferson: “I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health by medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I cannot be saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor.”

            The Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom – Draft
            Thomas Jefferson (1779)

            SECTION I. Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, but to extend it by its influence on reason alone; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time: That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness; and is withdrawing from the ministry those temporary rewards, which proceeding from an approbation of their personal conduct, are an additional incitement to earnest and unremitting labours for the instruction of mankind; that our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right; that it tends also to corrupt the principles of that very religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing, with a monopoly of worldly honours and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous falacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment, and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own; that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself; that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate; errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them.

            SECT. II. WE the General Assembly of Virginia do enact that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

            SECT. III. AND though we well know that this Assembly, elected by the people for the ordinary purposes of legislation only, have no power to restrain the acts of succeeding Assemblies, constituted with powers equal to our own, and that therefore to declare this act irrevocable would be of no effect in law; yet we are free to declare, and do declare, that the rights hereby asserted are of the natural rights of mankind, and that if any act shall be hereafter passed to repeal the present or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right.

            T. J. :”Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children,since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”

          • Neiman

            Yet, in the Northwest Treaty a document Jefferson wrote that spells out conditions for statehood, He encouraged the Christian bible be taught in all our schools to teach morality, which was essential for good government.

            Yet, despite that one man, we have etched in all our national buildings of the time and for a century afterwards words of the Christian Bible, we had the Ten Commandments in or on most federal buildings and military posts, we have had all our meetings of government started by Christian prayers, we had our government buy bibles for our public schools, in every possible way the words and actions of our leaders until atheist FDR and that scum bag Hugo Black, our nation honored the God of the Bible and Jesus; and our Founding Father’s and our courts never objected, because we were in spirit a Christian nation.

            Here again, you invest time and effort trying to kick God out of the Public Square, to argue against Nature’s God being our only sure Guarantor of our liberty, you side with the secular, atheist, Christ hating world because in your heart you are an atheist and of antichrist.

          • ellinas1

            Every “Christian” nation has done the same.

            They built churches, they taught from the bible, etched the 10 commandments on many a wall, their leaders proclaimed Jesus, their government meetings start/started with a Christian prayer, their governments bought bibles for the schools at taxpayer expense, they have/had Christian inscriptions on the buildings of military installations, have priests, chaplains, pastors, dominees, serving in their religious capacities within the armed forces…….here again you are serving me a platter of godly bullshit, as this condition is/was unique to the USA.
            Of course they did that. They were all protestant Christians. Did you expect them to built Buddha statues?

          • Neiman

            Then you agree the Founding Fathers by word and deed did not act like modern Democrat Party Church and State separationists, they did not treat the Church like an enemy, as does the godless, anti-christian Democrat Party, good, you are learning.

            They, like myself, did not believe in a theocracy, unlike you the Founding Fathers and myself believe the Church may, as best it can, involve itself in the affairs of state to try and influence it in a Christian direction, while the State is allowed no role at all, according to the First Amendment in the Church.

            I never said it was unique to us, only that it existed here to which you NOW agree. Your bad language and rudeness was unnecessary, but speaks volumes about your thoroughly unchristian character.

          • ellinas1

            Like I said. You wish to be stuck in the past.

            America has evolved and will keep evolving your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. There was a time when almost everybody had similar beliefs. There was a time in Americas past where those Christians did not welcome others who had different faiths unless they disembarked from a slave ship. There was a time when due to ignorance, greed, and desire for power people were persecuted.

            There was a time when non protestants used to hide their non WASPiness for fear of persecution and exclusion from the promises and benefits this new country offered.

            You say by word that you do not want a theocracy. By deed though,that is what you are aspiring to. You want to impose your religious beliefs on everybody, and this is best demonstrated by your intolerance of people with different faiths than yours. Your religious beliefs are unwelcome by a large segment of the population.

            I know you are unaware of this intolerance, and truth be told we that oppose your views on what it means to be Christian, do more harm by disparaging you, rather than engaging you in civil discourse. It is very hard and unchristian to resist sniping at you, for we believe you bring it upon you when you make what we see, perceive and know to be false pronouncements. in other words you invite ridicule by your intolerance, and we your debate opponents fall into the trap of never ending and all human trap of ridicule. It is easier to ridicule an opponent whose mind is closed, than to engage him in a civil way.

          • Neiman

            1. Your antichristian beliefs are astonishing for one pretending to a Christian faith. While people claiming the Christian faith have long been guilty of things not approved by the Lord, such as racism and slavery, you deliberately, with hatred for the Christian Church and Jesus, choose to list the sins of people claiming the faith falsely to do evil, while you carefully, with malice towards the Church, omit the fact it was true Christians in Britain and America that brought an end to slavery and were leading members of the slave underground movement to free slaves. But, it does your hatred of Jesus no good to mention the role of the Church in ending slavery and in the Civil Rights movement. Such is your hatred of Christ.

            2. I have made it abundantly clear that I do not want a theocracy in word and deed, but insist that under our Constitution, Christians have a voice in the direction of the country, being equally qualified for inclusion in State affairs, able to influence moral policies that are in harmony with their beliefs. Or, would you deny Christians that right and remove that part of the Bill of Rights?

            3. The ridicule is only by non-Christians, I have several key Christian voices here that support me and my beliefs. It is only by people like yourself that at every opportunity oppose everything Christian and fight for everything secular and anti-Christ.

            4. If by stuck in the past, you mean holding to the doctrines of Christ as written and to the Apostolic creeds, I plead guilty. But, God told us that at this time in history love for Him would wax cold, that the people of the earth would call those things He calls good to be evil and those things He calls evil to be good and that is proven every day when you post your anti-Christ beliefs here, supporting the mass murder of helpless, innocent children, in lying to gays telling them they are not sinning, it is genetic and in your posts the past couple of days opposing the inclusion of Christ in the public square.

          • ellinas1

            Sweeping under the carpet an ugly past does not do any good what soever.
            How soon do you forget? Of-course similarly situated individuals will support you. What you forget, are the countless voices that have asked you time and again to moderate your tone.

            When you refer to “the church” you are speaking only about your church. Of course Christians have a voice in the direction of the government and are equally qualified for inclusion in State affairs, able to influence moral policies that are in harmony with their beliefs.

            Should this influence restricted to your kind of Christians?

            Or should Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Assyrian, Armenian Apostolic Church, Jacobite Syrian Christian Church, Syriac Orthodox Church, Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, Eastern Catholic Church, all the Jewish denominations, Buddhists, Shintoists, and every other assorted churches have the same influence?

          • Neiman

            The problem is, you only and always see the Christian Church as bad and never defend it and you always omit anything positive about Christians in your hate filled attacks on Christ and His Church.

            Am I to answer to men or to God? To my conscience and ministry or to what you or others dictate? I believe we are an immoral nation under God’s Judgment because the Church stopped declaring sin, preaching hell and an calling people to holy living. It is because of godless liberals that soft pedal sin, that try and force God to live by their fleshly ideals of love and compassion rather than submit to Him in all things.

            The most evil word I can think of is tolerance (a favorite among liberals0, God would never tolerate idolatry, He would never tolerate equal treatment of pagan religions among His children,.He is a jealous God and has killed without mercy those that serve other gods, like the Democrat Party and Obama as examples of those idols or greed and lack of compassion by most Conservatives. No, neither John the Baptist, Jesus, Peter or Paul preached a saccharine sweet faith, they demanded repentance and a full surrender to Christ in all things. They called a spade a spade and sin was never watered down or made to be acceptable

            My Church is the Christian Church, the Body of Christ, there is only one true Church and it is not the various denominations you list, none of them are the true Church of Jesus Christ – not one. The Church is the true spiritual Body of Christ, it is made up of only those souls that have by faith accepted Jesus as their only Savior and absolute Lord (Which you have not, steadfastly refusing to confess Him as such) and are born again of His Spirit; and, while they may be scattered throughout many/most Christian denominations, they are few in number in all of them and they have in common their love of Jesus beyond all things in this life, which you do not ever seem to have, your hatred of Christian proof of that assertion.

            All religions may have an influence, but our Founding Fathers would be stunned to see them being given equal access to power, as most of the believed in Christ and believed this was, by faith, a mostly Christian nation. Yes, the Constitution and Bill of Rights guarantee all equal access to power.

          • ellinas1

            I know what the constitution allows. What I want to hear is what you believe. From what you wrote above, I thinl you wish to limit this influence to “your kind of Christians”. Therefore if I am mistaken correct me. And by the way. A simple yes or no will do.

            I will ask you again, and please do not hide behind the constitution.
            Should this influence (in the US government) restricted to your kind of Christians?
            Or should Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Assyrian,
            Armenian Apostolic Church, Jacobite Syrian Christian Church, Syriac
            Orthodox Church, Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, Eastern Catholic Church, all the Jewish denominations, Buddhists, Shintoists, and every other assorted churches have the same influence?

          • Neiman

            I already clearly and directly replied to each point, your inability to read and understand the English language is not my responsibility.

          • ellinas1

            No, you have not clearly and directly replied.

            You are a damned arrogant coward on top of everything.

            First you hide behind the constitution and now you blame me for your inability to give a short, clear, and concise answer.

            The below is not clear:
            “My Church is the Christian Church, the Body of Christ, there is only one true Church and it is not the various denominations you list, none of them are the true Church of Jesus Christ – not one.”
            “All religions may have an influence, but our Founding Fathers would be stunned to see them being given equal access to power, as most of the believed in Christ and believed this was, by faith, a mostly Christian nation. Yes, the Constitution and Bill of Rights guarantee all equal access to power.”

            Therefore I am compelled to ask you again, for a more direct answer.
            Should this influence (in the US government) restricted to your kind of Christians?
            Or should Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Assyrian,
            Armenian Apostolic Church, Jacobite Syrian Christian Church, Syriac Orthodox
            Church, Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, Eastern Catholic Church, all the Jewish denominations, Buddhists, Shintoists, and every other assorted churches have the same influence?

            How about the Muslims? Should they have an influence or should they be excluded.

            I want to know what you think, not what the constitution allows and how the Founding Fathers would feel and what they would think.

          • Neiman

            I have answered your question clearly and directly (Read last paragraph over and over until you see it), I cannot help it if you cannot read and understand the English language.

            Like Hannah, you demand I live up to a certain standard that you call Christian love, right? Is this your example for me to follow? “You are a damned arrogant coward on top of everything.” No, I don’t think so, but like all pretend Christian liberals, you attack all Christians, demanding according to some ill-defined biblical standard that, they act in Love and all the while, you act totally the opposite. Get rid of the giant Sequoia sized speck in your own eye, that you may see more clearly to criticize others.

            If you want people to act in certain ways, set the example yourself FIRST or stop being a hypocrite.

          • ellinas1

            What I gather from your answer is this.
            If it were up to you, only and only your kind of “Christians” would be allowed to have influence and influence the direction of our country.
            Got it.

          • Neiman

            You are not only a false Christian, you are a most damnable liar.

            I clearly wrote: “All religions may have an influence.” Your question was answered and that clearly, but you, as your father in hell would do, twists the obvious, clear language to mean something else to serve your evil ends. Got it.

          • ellinas1

            You are not only a false Christian, you are a most damnable liar.
            You may have written that all religions may have an influence, your personal view is only and only your kind of “Christians” would be allowed to have influence and influence the direction of our country.

            This can be easily demonstrated as you have said this:

            “My Church is the Christian Church, the Body of Christ, there is only one true Church and it is not the various denominations you list, none of them are the true Church of Jesus Christ – not one.”

            And this: “”All religions may have an influence, but our Founding Fathers would be stunned to see them being given equal access to power, as most of the believed in Christ and believed this was, by faith, a mostly Christian nation. Yes, the Constitution and Bill of Rights guarantee all equal access to power.”

            This is what you get when I ask for a clarification of your personal views and you answer in an arrogant and evasive manner by saying this: “your inability to read and understand the English language is not my responsibility.”

            If there is anything in what I wrote that you do not understand please ask for clarification and I will be more than happy to explain it to you.

          • Neiman

            Since I never said my ” personal view is only and only [my] kind of “Christians” would be
            allowed to have influence and influence the direction of our country,” you are playing mind reading games and failed. But, hey Satan is proud of you and pleasing your father is probably important to you.

            I don’t have time for all your games, you are apparently alone with lots of time on your hands because no one can stand you, not even your family. You have only proven your absence of any Christian faith and that you are like your Lord Gay Bob in game playing and lying. Congratulations, Gay Bob and your mutual father Satan are both proud of you.

          • ellinas1

            You don’t have to say something directly.
            Almost all of what you you write is exclusionary of other faiths having an influence in our government.

            To wit: All religions may have an influence, BUT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS WOULD BE STUNNED TO SEE THEM GIVEN EQUAL ACCESS TO POWER, as most of them believed in Christ and believed this was, by faith, a mostly Christian nation. Yes, the Constitution and Bill of Rights guarantee all equal access to power.”

          • ellinas1

            “All religions may have an influence” is not the same as
            all religions must have the same influence.

          • ellinas1

            As far as the name calling goes, clean up your act before you point to others. Be the shining example “Mr. Christian.”

          • Neiman

            So your false Christianity always starts with the other fellow and all you can do is play games. Got it!

          • ellinas1

            That is exactly what you do, but you don’t get it.

          • Neiman

            Nice avoidance, never look in the mirror at your own sins or admit your own failures, you are a great finger pointer – typical of all liberals.

          • ellinas1

            Nice avoidance, never look in the mirror at your own sins or admit your
            own failures, you are a great finger pointer – typical of all cult adherents/followers.

          • Bat One

            Say, is that the same Thomas Jefferson who wrote that “all men… are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.”

          • ellinas1

            Yes, it’s the same rascal. I wonder why he had so many views in the same issue. Yet again……damn politicians…..

          • ellinas1

            Yes you do want to impose your views on anyone that does not share your views.
            You use threats and coercion,

          • Neiman

            That is a lie, but you are a mirror image of your non-Christian brother Gay Bob and your father in hell – Satan. As he was a liar from the beginning and there was no truth in him, you are exactly like him.

            I threaten and coerce no one and you cannot prove otherwise. You are a lost soul, headed for hell and right now I see little help short of a miracle of God to rescue you from everlasting suffering.

          • ellinas1

            You threaten people with eternal damnation and use coercion freely against those that do not share your particular beliefs.
            You have to accept the fact that over half of Christianity believes differently than you.
            Even among your protestant fellow travelers there exist a multitude of diverse views on Christianity.

          • Neiman

            More lies Ellinas.

            To say what the Bible says about damnation for ALL souls outside of Christ Jesus, not being washed by His blood and raised to new life in Him, is not coercion, it is only to repeat what God says in His Word and that only to warn you, Gay, Bob, Hannitized and others that there is only one way to be saved and that is by faith in Jesus Christ. For all others, it is everlasting suffering. Or, when Jesus spoke of hell, I guess you are now accusing Him of coercion?

            Just because over half of the professing world may disagree and I question that, as the Roman Catholic Church believes in eternal damnation and everlasting punishing for all outside of Christ; yet, what kind of faith would I have, to subject God’s Word to polls, to submit to even majority opinion, rather than God’s Word alone. What faith if I did not believer it true and proclaimed it with authority to the goal of salvation of souls?

            Unfortunately, you have been raised in a Church that believes man plays a role in his own redemption: “Orthodox Christians believe salvation is a gradual, life-long process by which Christians become more and more like Christ. This requires faith in Jesus Christ, working through love.’ You do not accept the idea that man is inherently evil or that they need faith in Christ to be saved, but contrary to Scripture that denies works-salvation, your church diminishes faith and places the burden on man to be good and earn their salvation and that even people that reject Jesus as their Savior, can by good works still gain Heaven.

            You may and do reject salvation by Grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone; but, as God says no man is good, no not one and that to failure to obey the Law perfectly makes the man guilty of breaking the whole law and the Holy Spirit through Paul tells us salvation is by faith alone; I fear you will not gain heaven and that damnation is your own freewill choice. May God punish harshly every minister and proponent of the Greek Orthodox Church that by their lies, are leading countless souls into hell by a works-salvation doctrine. My only encouragement is that it is a small church in numbers of adherents.

          • ellinas1

            “May God punish harshly every minister and proponent of the Greek
            Orthodox Church that by their lies, are leading countless souls into
            hell by a works-salvation doctrine. My only encouragement is that it is a small church in numbers of adherents.”

            Wow! How wrong you are.

            1)A true Christian would not wish that upon anyone. He would rather pray to God for then to see the Light (if they are mistaken in their beliefs).
            2) The Orthodox Church, is the second largest Christian church in the world, with an estimated 225-300 million adherents.

            I would advise you to better acquaint your self with Orthodoxy, for your knowledge of what it means to be Orthodox Christian,
            300 million adherents is not a small church in numbers of adherents.
            How many adherents does your church have?

          • Neiman

            1. If a minister or church is leading souls into hell, in this case by preaching a works-salvation doctrine (“Orthodox Christians believe salvation is a gradual, life-long process by which Christians become more and more like Christ), then they deserve punishment or should I better say discipline, not loss of salvation necessarily. God does not take lightly those that lie souls into hell. The Greek Orthodox Church does not teach; Salvation by grace alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone (see post below), but another Gospel that qualifies people for heaven based on their good works, including your asserting that Saint Gay Bob will get there even though he is an admitted non-Christian.

            Plus, just for the record, I was talking about their false ministers. You are also right, I should pray for them, which is not high on my list and should be higher.

            2. Compared to the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant Church, 300 million is a very small number, thank God. I do not know many Orthodox Christians, only their works-salvation doctrine; and, I readily agree that many individual adherents, may have come to Christ by faith alone and Love Him beyond all things in life, I have just never met one.

            I just know that no one has ever gained heaven by being good enough, they need to apply the blood of Christ, be washed and made whole in Christ, having appropriated His righteousness for their own that they are justified (just as if they never sinned) and made righteous in the beloved. To suggest that faith and the new birth is not needed, but by works of the flesh men can be saved is anti-Christ.

            3. Actually, to oppose myself a bit, large numbers of adherents is a poor measure, as Jesus said that while many are called, few are chosen (accept His Salvation) and I recall that the Anabaptists (Really Protestant believers) in the godless Soviet Union were very small in number, but very strong in faith and persevered, being genuinely Christians by faith. I also decry most large congregations, as gaining that many adherents, it is virtually impossible to do so without compromising the Gospel message, and it requires tickling the ears of people, not demanding anything from them.

            There are about 840,000,000 people claiming the Protestant Faith, although IMO most of them are Christians in name only and are quickly, as God prophesied, falling away from the faith.

          • Neiman

            SAVATION BY GRACE/FAITH – NOT WORKS

            (Romans 3:20-28) “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no
            flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. {21} But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; {22} Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: {23} For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; {24} Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: {25} Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. {27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. {28} Therefore we
            conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

            (Romans 5:18-19) “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment
            came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. {19} For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

            (Romans 6:23) “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

            (Romans 11:6) “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

            (1 Corinthians 4:7) “For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it,
            why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?”

            (1 Corinthians 15:10) “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and
            his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.”

            (Galatians 2:16) “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works
            of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

            (Galatians 2:21) “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

            (Ephesians 2:8-9) “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
            that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: {9} Not of works, lest any
            man should boast.”

            (2 Timothy 1:9) “Who hath saved us, and called us with an
            holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

            Or, is God’s Word on the subject not sufficient?

          • ellinas1

            300 million adherents are 25% of the people claiming to be christian.
            300 million adherents are 38% of the number of people claiming to be protestant.
            300 million adherents are 25% of the number of people claiming to be Catholic.
            Surely you jest when you claim the number of Orthodox Christians is a very small number.
            Reexamine what you say, in order to have a serious discussion about the issue.

          • Neiman

            Well I hope your percentages/statistics make you feel much, much better, even though the actual numbers are highly suspect, most of them being in Greece. In the America Greek Orthodox Church (they typically claimed 1,954,500* members versus 440,000 actual adherents). If such differences in claims and actual numbers hold true worldwide, if my math is not too bad, that would equal only about 75 million Greek Orthodox Adherents worldwide. Plug that into your figures.

            It is false to claim I m not having a serious discussion, but typical of a liberal t end debate when they are losing the argument.

          • ellinas1

            My percentages/statistics are accurate.
            While it is true that most of the “Greek Orthodox” live in Greece, Orthodoxy is not limited to Greece or the Greeks.Most Orthodox Christians live outside of Greece and the USA.
            I think you should do some serious research. For instance there are far more Orthodox Christians in Ethiopia and Eritrea than all the “Greek” Orthodox worldwide. Plug that into your figures.

            Reexamine what you say, in order to have a serious discussion about the issue.

          • Neiman

            I gave you the correct answer – they Greek Orthodox Church in America claims many more times the number of adherents as they actually have, only 22% of the total here and probably about the same worldwide. Apply those false figures of published adherents to the actual number on a worldwide scale and your figures are wrong.

            You should: Reexamine what you say, in order to have a serious discussion about the issue. It does not take a rocket scientist to know that your figures of members if the Greek Orthodox Church are wildly inflated, you know, lies.

            Your just saying your figures are accurate does not make it so, you have no authority or respect that anyone other than Hanntized and Gay Bob would believe you, and in truth they don’t, they are just grooming you for hell.

          • ellinas1

            Why are you stuck on stupid? I am speaking of Orthodox Christians and you only speak “Greek Orthodox” Christians.
            Why have you ignored this? “For instance there are far more Orthodox Christians in Ethiopia and
            Eritrea than all the “Greek” Orthodox worldwide. Plug that into your
            figures.”
            http://www.adherents.com/adh_rb.html#International

          • Neiman

            “Why are you stuck on stupid?” Oh, that is the love of Christ that you and non-Christian Gay Bob talk about, calling people names, Okay, I got it moron.

            You are Greek Orthodox or so you proclaim, so naturally I assume you are talking about them. If you are including some generic orthodox church, the figures are not much better and that still does not deal with your church lying about the number of adherents.

            By the way, I notice you are a night crawler, you mostly come out when people are in bed or away from their computers so you’ll get no opposition.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, see if you can find your hypocrisy in this sentence:

            “Why are you stuck on stupid?” Oh, that is the love of Christ that you and non-Christian Gay Bob talk about, calling people names, Okay, I got it moron.

            Didja catch it?

            You’re a pip, Old Pal!

          • Neiman

            Let’s see if we can find your hypocrisy in these sentences:

            Old Pal, see if you can find your hypocrisy in this sentence:”

            “You’re a pip, Old Pal!”

            Oh, sorry it is not hypocrisy – it is just more of your damnable lies.

            No hypocrisy on my part, if your sister Ellinas can call me names and preach about the love of God, then all is fair and I can call him names and be showing the love of God too, right?

            Or, this sentence”

            “You are a damned arrogant coward on top of everything.”

            Get it now? You are a pip – you old fag!

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            How very anti-Christlike of you, Old Pal.
            Your god has some funny rules.

            Have you ever heard of Jesus?
            Nice guy. Now that’s someone you should read up on, Old Pal.

          • Neiman

            How would you know. you have admitted you have rejected Jesus and His salvation? Pretty funny you pretending to defend how you, a non-Christian, thinks Jesus would act.

            At least my God has a name, unlike yours that does not, that does not have a book documenting his/her will/way, or is ashamed to admit his/her religion or tell anyone how he/she is getting you the heaven without faith in Christ. You are a funny guy, a damned liar, but a really funny guy.

            Oh, twice you lied and called me your pal again, and despite doing it twice will deny you ever did it. How does your god feel about your pathological lying.

            It is laughable, you a person that has rejected Christ and His salvation, which is as anti-Christ as it is possible to get and then you pretend to accuse others of anti-Christ attitudes, What is that line about the pot calling the kettle black? You are the biggest liar and hypocrite on planet earth.

            But, your having no friends outside you gay bar scene and having a sick psycho-sexual obsession with me, you have to spend a lot of time each day harassing me to “get off.”

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            You sure do spend a lot of time thinking about the gay sex, Old Pal.
            Why is that?

          • Neiman

            Because it is an abomination, as is your wicked, lying spirit, an offense to God and man. It needs to be daily opposed as homosexuality is destroying millions of souls, destroying marriage and family, destroying society and leading, like you are, countless souls into hell.

            I spend time making sure that anyone left out there that anyone of any decency left, knows they are not alone in hating the lifestyle, which is a malignant cancer on our world. Well, like you are.

            More lies about the pal thing hey Gay Bob? You are a wicked, pathological liar.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Do you miss him, Old Pal?
            Is that what it is?

          • Neiman

            I am not your pal LIAR.

            Your other ramblings must be the product of your degenerate soul and I don;t went to know what you are talking about.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            It’s OK to share, Old Pal.
            Was he kind to you?

          • Neiman

            I am not your pal LIAR!

            Please do not compare your sick deviant lifestyle to mine or project your sick, psychotic homoerotic fantasies on me, you are a sick, hell bound bastard.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            He must have meant a lot to you, huh Old Pal?

          • Neiman

            May God forgive you for your filth, your false accusations and bring you to the place of death, if necessary to humble you, cause you to bend your knees, repent and find salvation. Until then you are excrement!

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Ditto, Old Pal!

          • ellinas1

            The punk ass evangelcal preacher wannabe want’s you dead?
            Damn! Watch out for Zeus’ thunderbolts.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            I threaten and coerce no one and you cannot prove otherwise.

            Really, Old Pal, really?
            Shall we go to the vault?

          • Neiman

            Do whatever your dark, evil heart desires – it will always be copy/pasted out of context, in the fairly distant past and subject to your demonic interpretations.

            That is all you have are lies and your clinically sick obsession with me that borders on a sexual obsession to satisfy your gay lusts, wherein you archive my every word and read them daily so you can “get off” on them, like the Gay Bob we all know you to be. I also am aware that whenever your lover Ellinas gets in trouble, you ride in to save her and your marriage to each other.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Neiman
            22 minutes ago in reply to hannitized

            Whenever people have no basis for an argument, they engage in personal attacks!

          • Neiman

            What do you expect when you interject yourself into a discussion with threats? So personal attacks against Gay Bob are BAD, threats against Neiman are GOOD? Is that the way it is?

          • ellinas1

            Who has threatened you and how?

          • Neiman

            It is a lot of crap to have to deal with both of you defending each other, but I should never expect fairness or decency from liberals. I am sorry, I should have known you cannot stand on your own two feet and fight your own battles.

            Your friend Gay Bob above read it for yourself.

          • ellinas1

            I read what Bob said.
            What he said was in response to some upsurd claims you make.
            You have to do better than that.
            Who has threatened you and how?

          • Neiman

            I am not surprised no matter what Gay Bob wrote, no matter how wrong he was and you are, you would defend your admitted non-Christian brother to the death.

          • ellinas1

            Listen, and listen carefully.
            He spoke the truth and as you say there is nothing wrong with truth in labeling. Bob was pointing out one of the many positions you have taken on the same issue.
            Don’t blame Bob or me for your many contradicting positions.
            Once again: Who has threatened you and how?

          • Neiman

            When you accept Jesus as your Savior and Lord, then I will listen to you, not until.

            No, Gay Bob is wrong, you two have a perverted relationship and he is a pathological, demon possessed liar and you are his exact image.

          • ellinas1

            I don’t care about “your Jesus”.
            You think you are slick, but you are not. I don’t take well to fire and brimstone preachers, thugs, and self righteous know nothings.
            I am not the type that will fall on his knees, beat his chest, and cry his lungs out seeking forgiveness at the command of a street punk ass evangelical wanna be minister.
            Your kind preys on weaklings, like a wolf preys on weak and wounded animals.
            You reserve your fire and brimstone for those that are not like you.

            “May God punish harshly every minister and proponent of the Greek Orthodox Church that by their lies, are leading countless souls into hell by a works-salvation doctrine.

            You are “saccharine sweet and try to minimize the sins of those who are like you.
            To wit: “A “Purpose Driven Life” minister falls into sexual sin and is disgraced neiman • December 12, 2012

            Until you realize how wrong and unmerited your false pronouncements are, I will consider you a street punk ass evangelical wanna be minister, who knows not how to deliver God’s message of love and salvation.

          • Neiman

            As you refuse to confess Jesus as your only Savior (the only savior of mankind) and your absolute Lord, and as long as you think a self confessed non-Christian is a Christian nonetheless without Jesus, and support abortion and lie homosexuals into hell; I hope you’ll pardon me if your opinion on me and my approach to ministry is meaningless.

            First, confess Christ as Savior and Lord, submit to Him and practice the so-called love you pretend and then you may have some credibility. Then tell me what love is – is it to soft pedal sin and tell people they don’t need Christ to be saved, if so that is not the Love of God in Christ Jesus. If it stands upon the wall and calls sin to be sin and points lost souls to Christ, that is God’s Love.

            You demand I love as you think love is defined, yet you do not show me that love at all, do you? No, clean up your own house first that I might better hear you.

          • ellinas1

            You have not heard I word I said.
            You think you are slick, but you are not. I don’t take well to fire and
            brimstone preachers, thugs, and self righteous know nothings.
            I am
            not the type that will fall on his knees, beat his chest, and cry his
            lungs out seeking forgiveness at the command of a street punk ass
            evangelical wanna be minister.

            Furthermore you have failed to explain this discrepancy:
            You reserve your fire and brimstone for those that are not like you.

            “May God punish harshly every minister and proponent of the Greek Orthodox Church that by their lies, are leading countless souls into hell by a works-salvation doctrine.

            You are “saccharine sweet and try to minimize the sins of those who are like you.
            To wit: “A “Purpose Driven Life” minister falls into sexual sin and is disgraced neiman • December 12, 2012

            Until you realize how wrong and unmerited your false pronouncements are,
            I will consider you a street punk ass evangelical wanna be minister,
            who knows not how to deliver God’s message of love and salvation.

          • Neiman

            You cannot hear the written word – only read it.

            Copying and pasting entire previous comments is a waste of time.

            First, confess Christ as Savior and Lord, submit to Him and practice the so-called love you pretend and then you may have some credibility.

          • ellinas1

            Still stuck on stupid.
            Of course copying and pasting entire previous comments is a waste of my time. You refuse to read them and address them.

            We cannot have a discussion on this until and only until you read what I write and answer directly and truthfully. No amount of evasion on your part will be accepted.
            Stop demanding a confession out of of me….as I already have done it. There is no need to confess my faith to you again and again..
            Your inability to recognize that this confession can be done in many ways and not the way you demand is not a problem of mine

            You are not the arbiter of what a true Christian is and how one confesses his/her faith. You are a dictator and a bully.

          • Neiman

            I answered your questions and addressed every issue, as I always do. More lies from you.

            Next lie, you have NEVER confessed here at SAB that Jesus is your only Savior and the absolute Lord of your life. That is a lie! To play games about a confession being made in many ways is a lie, the words may vary slightly, but it is:

            Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

            Acts 16:31 “They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved–you and your household.”

            Romans 10:10 “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.”

            1 Corinthians 12:3 “Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.”

            1 John 4:15 “If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.”

            But how can you without specifically confessing Jesus is the Son of God, your Savior and your Lord? And, how can that be a true confession, when you allow that others, like Gay Bob can be saved without Christ, even though he admits he is not a Christian? How can it be true if you say Jesus is Lord, but oppose His every Word, saying abortion is not murder of helpless, innocent children and that absent repentance and a changed life, homosexuality (other sins too) is a sin unto death? How can that be true in your case when you only and always attack Christians, showing no charity to people that should be your brothers and sisters in in Christ Jesus and only and always defend the people of this world. It is like hating your own family and if the family, the Lord Who is the head of that family?

            We are told to test the fruits of those claiming Christianity, but who by words and deeds oppose Christ. I have often recorded how you oppose Christ.

            Your childish charge of a dictator and bully is hardly charitable, it is inaccurate as well, as I have no power to force my will on anyone and once again you demand standards of behavior for Christians you cannot meet in your own life, demanding they act first to conform to YOUR idea of Christianity or you feel free to act unchristian in your words and actions.

            You need for your own sake to admit you are a sinner, like we all are, worthy of an eternity in hell for your sins. Then repent of those sins and ask Jesus not just to be your Savior, but the absolute Lord of every part of your life. Nothing less is acceptable to God.

          • ellinas1

            There you go again demanding that I confess your way and do as you say. It ain’t happening. I don’t jump at the command of a street punk ass wannabe evangelical minister who is unable to correctly deliver the Lords message.

          • Neiman

            You are a terribly insecure, childish fellow and look for excuses not to confess Jesus because you do not know Him and absent your repentance, He will deny knowing you before the Father. I pity you, but no one can help you, your ego and Satan have you bound to hell

            Yes, and I’ll bet you will defend this by saying Jesus talks this way: “a street punk ass wannabe evangelical minister.” It is just more proof of your not being a Christian.

          • ellinas1

            Christian? Christian you say?
            Do not make me laugh, you manipulative snake.
            That sir, is called truth in advertising.
            It is a proper description of a street punk ass wannabe evangelical minister like yourself.

          • Neiman

            I was saying you are not a Christian and it appears you agree.

            It was a street punk evangelist named Wesley that spoke of hell fire and damnation and salvation in Christ that, lit revival fires all over Europe and America. It was a street punk evangelist named Philip that was the first evangelist and went about saving souls for Christ. I knew a dear man, an ex- hell’s angel that became a Christian and was called with his wife and children to evangelize homosexuals in San Francisco and even when threatened with death, even his children would not stay home, because even at their very young ages they felt they too were chosen to call gays to repent and be saved. So, I tell you all of this to say it is no insult to call me such names, I take some pleasure in that undeserved label; and, something you did not even know, the ministry of the evangelist is to expose sin, to call for repentance and to preach of the Perdition to bring souls to Christ. It is a tough, thankless calling that earns the evangelist little money, often going without food and comforts of life. I would be blessed and pleased if I were an evangelist or missionary-evangelist.

            Still, you demonstrate, your protestations notwithstanding, that your every comment, your every word testifies against your false claims of being a Christian. You are to be pitied for your hate and your false testimony.

          • ellinas1

            I do not consider you as being Christian.
            In my view you are not Christian.
            Your beliefs are cultist, cult like and totally unacceptable to me.

          • Neiman

            Who cares what you think, except for your two unchristian pals here, NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANYTHING.

            You need Conviction of your multitude of sins, you need Repentance for those sins and you need Conversion to being a member of the family of God through salvation in Christ. I hope you do before it is to late. On Judgment Day, you will have no excuse.

          • ellinas1

            It is abundantly clear and obvious that you care as to what I think, for you sprout like a weed every time, spout and write volubly and tediously in opposition to my opinions.

          • Neiman

            I only oppose you as evil for the sake of others, your opinion is worthless.

          • ellinas1

            What you wrote is what I said.
            It is abundantly clear and obvious that you care as to what I think, for
            you sprout like a weed every time, spout and write volubly and
            tediously in opposition to my opinions.

          • ellinas1

            You reserve your fire and brimstone for those that are not like you.
            “May God punish harshly every minister and proponent of the Greek
            Orthodox Church that by their lies, are leading countless souls into
            hell by a works-salvation doctrine.

            You are “saccharine sweet and try to minimize the sins of those who are like you.
            To wit: “A “Purpose Driven Life” minister falls into sexual sin and is disgraced neiman • December 12, 2012

            What is your excuse for not addressing this?

          • Neiman

            I see that as another day dawns your obsession with me in your pursuit of evil is on display.

            I have addressed the all in depth.

          • ellinas1

            Address it again

          • ellinas1

            Wesley the Arminian?
            Surely you jest.
            Say,brother Neiman, wasn’t he the one that believed that preaching should be confined within the church walls and was convinced by one of his “friends” and fellow travelers that he was wrong?
            As for the ex hell’s angel big deal.
            All hell’s angels being white supremacists hate/despise homosexuals, especially white homosexuals. He found a home in your midst.

          • Neiman

            Sadly, this like most all of your replies, only proves how much you are not a Christian and how you judge people even more harshly than you accuse others of judging you. As you point your finger at me and other Christians, you do not notice that there are three fingers pointing back at you in accusation, you judge others and cry when you think they judge you.

            This friend I mentioned was tough in his former life and yes he hated homosexuals, like his gay brother; but, he came to Christ and was, unlike you, completely transformed by the Holy Spirit; and, as he was flying home from visiting his brother, the Lord called him, spoke to his heart to go back to the streets of San Francisco and love and minister to the gays. He gave up everything, his wife and children going to the streets with him, living in poverty and sharing the love of God for homosexuals often in tears, hurting for their lost souls and yes he was not hesitant to call it what God calls it – sin; but for those years on the street, He truly ministered the love of God to that community, even while being subjected to be urinated on and spat upon and cursed and treated horribly, even with many death threats, but such was the love of God in Him that, nothing would keep him from ministering to these lost souls to bring as many to Christ as possible.

            Parenthetical note: At his funeral his life was celebrated by everyone, including many homosexuals, they all together worshipped God and were thankful for the ministry of the Holy Spirit in him. This is something you will spit upon and ridicule and attack, but by at the graveside, while hymns were being sung to the Lord, his wife and children with tears not of sadness but joy, raised their hands in praise to God. His was a life that could have ended in prison and worse, but he ended up a modern day John the Baptist calling men he formerly hated to repentance and in teh love of God.

            This man was no racist or gay hater, as I am neither a racist of gay hater; but you have never understood the love of God at all. It does not cover up sin, it calls sin to be sin and moves to rescue souls from sin and death. It endures insults and injuries and attacks from lost souls like yourself, because there are souls to be saved, lives to be rescued in Jesus Holy Name.

            Wesley despite your attacks and hate, did preach in the streets and fields, through him the Holy Spirit did start a great spiritual revival and through him many lost souls were brought to Christ and redeemed. Unlike you, neither my friend nor Wesley lied and said that which God calls sin is not a sin, unlike you neither of them lied souls into hell with their hate.

            Oh, why do you like Gay Bob , insult me, you know we are not in any way, shape, manner or form brothers; I am of the family of God and you are a lost soul wandering the world destroying others souls.

          • ellinas1

            I had pegged him right: “This friend I mentioned was tough in his former life and yes he hated homosexuals, like his gay brother;..”

            2)”This man was no racist or gay hater,.”
            I say: Bubalus bubalis manure by the ton.

          • Neiman

            I knew him and the changed, humble, kind and loving man he became; you only have your lies and your hate and your inability to see God’s Redemption, which will never apply to you until you do.

          • ellinas1

            Man, oh man, I don’t care about this biker. If he changed hurray. That is what Christs message is about. People change all the time. It is not unique to your cult.

            Now move on. Enough about redeemed bikers… this little story about redemption does nothing for me, it evokes no emotions whatsoever.

          • Neiman

            Christianity is not a cult.

            This story and your words here tell more about your hate filled, fallen nature than anything I could ever say. What a pitiful creature you are.

          • ellinas1

            I don’t care what this story and my words tell you.
            You are wrong.

          • ellinas1

            You reserve your fire and brimstone for those that are not like you.
            “May God punish harshly every minister and proponent of the Greek
            Orthodox Church that by their lies, are leading countless souls into
            hell by a works-salvation doctrine.

            You are “saccharine sweet and try to minimize the sins of those who are like you.
            To wit: “A “Purpose Driven Life” minister falls into sexual sin and is disgraced neiman • December 12, 2012

            Until you realize how wrong and unmerited your false pronouncements are,
            I will consider you a street punk ass evangelical wanna be minister,
            who knows not how to deliver God’s message of love and salvation.

          • ellinas1

            I do not consider you as being Christian.
            In my view you are not Christian.
            Your beliefs are cultist, cult like and totally unacceptable to me.

          • Neiman

            Here it is and it was Gay Bob: When in response to my claim to threaten no one and coerce no one, he immediately in your defense, as he loves you in a carnal way, threatened to go into his exhaustive archives he keeps of my every word, their as always out of date, out of context and as as presented – lies:

            Really, Old Pal, really? Shall we go to the vault?

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, who has threatened the Neiman?
            Give us their names and post their actual threats so that all may see the guilty party’s words.

          • Neiman

            His name is Gay Bob

            “Really, Old Pal, really? Shall we go to the vault?

            That was a threat and you know it anti-Christ.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Having your hypocrisy exposed certainly threatens your already dubious credibility.

            OK, Old Pal. I’ll give you that one.

          • Neiman

            So you admit you engaged in cheap threats, like a low life, bottom dwelling, scum sucking liberal thug, willing to copy/pasts out of context, out of date lies in defense of Ellinas?

            I am not you pal and every time you call me your pal – you LIE. I know it is your nature to only and always lie, but I will always call you on your lies so there will be no doubt you are a damned liar.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            No, Old Pal. I engage in exposing your hypocrisy.
            I’m doing purdy good so far, doncha think?

          • Neiman

            I am doing a great job of exposing your LIES and LYING NATURE, don’t you think so moron that cannot spell? We are not pals LIAR.

            You have not exposed anything but that you are a Christ hating, pathological lying, child of hell. You have long been good at exposing your own evil nature.

            Now lets talk about that made up god of yours that you fear naming, that you fear telling us exactly hpw he/she will get you into heaven, what religion he/she is associated with and what book he/she uses so we can document your lies. You won’t, you can pretend and play games all you want, you serve Satan and we all know it.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            No, Old Pal. Let’s talk about your made up god.

          • Neiman

            You mean the one that over a billion Christians believe in, the Creator, the God of the Christian faith? Read the Holy Bible, it’s all there. We have nothing to hide, you can find His many names, including the I Am that I am, the self existent One, you can read about His Will and Way and His plan of Salvation which is only by faith in Jesus Christ. Hey, it’s all there.

            Now that I have revealed everything you need to know, let us talk about (a) your made up god that has no name, that (b) refuses to name his/her religion that, (c) refuses to reveal his/her book of religious thoughts and who (d) gets you into heaven without your being a Christian.

            You can read about my Almighty God the Creator of all things and of Jesus my Savior and Lord in the Holy Bible, but we have zip, nada, nothing, zero, zilch information on your made-up god, come on now Gay Bob, we are all dying to hear about him/her. Why are you so shy about your made-up god there Gay Bob? What are you afraid of? Why so shy? Is it that you have doubts in him/her and your made up faith? Your turn Gay Bob, no cute one-liners, save the world, show us your god in all details. Do I hear Gay Bob running for the hills and crying?

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Yer funny, Old Pal.
            I really liked the part where you made stuff up about me.
            They’re all lies, but that’s what’s so wonderful about your blather.
            Preach Jesus and never follow the teachings yourself.

            You’ve made up a god of hate from bits and pieces of the Holy Bible to fit your jaded world view.

          • Neiman

            What do you care, you are outside Christ, you have admitted you are no Christian. Clean up your own house first, you are lost and dying, not because of me, because you rejected Jesus.

            I follow Jesus teachings, but even to the degree I fail and other Christians fail, it is not obedience to the law which saves anyone and you do not obey Jesus at all supporting child murder and homosexuality. You do not even follow Jesus as a non-Christian and then dare accuse Christians of not following Him.

            I made up nothing, you cannot prove a single thing I have made up. You do not debate the faith, how can you being outside the faith.

            Get saved, repent of your murders, your support for homosexuality and all your other sins first, then dare talk about God’s Word.

            Now that I have revealed everything you need to know, let us talk
            about (a) your made up god that has no name, that (b) refuses to name his/her religion that, (c) refuses to reveal his/her book of religious thoughts and who (d) gets you into heaven without your being a Christian. You dare not, because your god is Satan!

            You can read about my Almighty God the Creator of all things and of
            Jesus my Savior and Lord in the Holy Bible, but we have zip, nada,
            nothing, zero, zilch information on your made-up god, come on now Gay Bob, we are all dying to hear about him/her. Why are you so shy about your made-up god there Gay Bob? What are you afraid of? Why so shy? Is it that you have doubts in him/her and your made up faith? Your turn Gay Bob, no cute one-liners, save the world, show us your god in all details. Do I hear Gay Bob running for the hills and crying?

          • ellinas1

            Which of your statements is true?

            This one:”You mean the one that over a billion Christians believe in,…”

            Or this one: “My Church is the Christian Church, the Body of Christ, there is only one true Church and it is not the various denominations you list, none of them are the true Church of Jesus Christ – not one.

          • Neiman

            BOTH!

            Over a billion souls think they are Christian and base their beliefs on the same Bible and God I trust in, those similarities do not imply that more than a few of them are truly Christians, disciples of Jesus, having been Born Again in Christ.

            The only true Church is not a man-made ecclesiastical organization, none of which are approved by God as His Church; but His Church is made up of all the true believers from the Resurrection of Christ until this hour that, despite their being scattered among most Christian denominations in corporate worship, are of His Spiritual Body.

            Church: [Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, ultimately from Medieval Greek krikon, from Late Greek kriakon (dma), the Lord’s (house), neuter of Greek kriakos, of the lord, from krios, lord; see keu- in Indo-European roots.] “The company of all Christians regarded as a spiritual body.”

            Don’t like it, that is your problem, not mine.

          • ellinas1

            My, my. You speak like snake with a forked tongue.
            You speak from both sides of your mouth.
            You cannot count as Christians the ones you refuse to accept as Christian.
            Kyriou Oikos means the Lords House. Ekklesia means the Assembly of the Called/faithful, a congregation.
            In the Greek language of yesterday and today the Ekklesia Assembles in the Kyriou Oikos.
            The term Kyriou Oikos, in modern Greek is referred to as the Ekklesia because that is where that is where the called/faithful congregate.
            Nowadays the term Church refers to the collective body of all Christians and/or a particular denomination of a group of Christian believers.
            To summarize your cult reinvented and bastardized the words to suit its views and justify it’s existence to the exclusion of all others.
            A cheap trick it is, and you fell for it.

          • Neiman

            Actually, I never read your list or cared, so your game playing failed when I admitted every faith has equal access.

            Games such as yours are demonic and more proof of your not being a Christian at all.

          • ellinas1

            “Actually, I never read your list or cared,…”

            And therein lies the problem.
            Your mind is closed, and you only hear what you say.
            We cannot have an honest conversation this way.
            You lack basic communication skills.
            Good by!

          • Neiman

            I didn’t waste time because no matter who was on the list, I agreed they all have rights to influence the government.

            Well, I just pray you will admit you too are a sinner worthy only of hell and everlasting punishing, repent of your sins, ask Jesus to be your Savior and Lord and get saved. Until then, you are only fooling yourself, Christ is not in you nor you in Him, by your every word you testify there are no fruits of the Spirit in your heart.

            By the way, Gay Bob is not saved saved and never will be unless he too confesses his sins and becomes born again and if you have any knowledge of Jesus and salvation at all, you will seek his salvation before it is too late.No one gains heaven without Jesus as their Savior.

          • ellinas1

            “I have made it abundantly clear that I do not want a theocracy in word and deed, but insist that under our Constitution, Christians have a voice in the direction of the country, being equally qualified for inclusion in State affairs, able to influence moral policies that are inharmony with their beliefs. Or, would you deny Christians that right and remove that part of the Bill of Rights?”

            “My Church is the Christian Church, the Body of Christ, there is only one true Church and it is not the various denominations you list, none of them are the true Church of Jesus Christ – not one.”

            You manipulative snake you.
            You want Christians to have a voice in the direction of the country, able to influence moral policies that are in harmony with their beliefs, yet you deny everyone the Christian label, thus effectively eliminating everyone else.

            You bitch and moan almost daily about Barak Obama being a muslim, about how he did not thank God during thanksgiving, but when cornered you admit everyone has equal access, but then insinuate that is not what the Founding Fathers meant or wanted.

          • ellinas1

            If you admitted that every faith has equal access, there would be no reason for you to bitch and moan about religion being kicked of the public square. No reason to complain that the president of the USA is not “Christian” or as you say he is “muslim”.

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            The mistake you’re making is that someone like Neiman wants actual religious freedom. He doesn’t. He wants dominance for his particular flavor of religion.

          • ellinas1

            I know exactly what he wants, which is what you so succinctly have stated.
            The fun part about this is to watch him run in circles and deny the obvious with one side of his mouth all the while stating the obvious with the other side.
            When cornered about his true views and desires, he acts like a spoiled brat, pouts, rambles endlessly, speaks/writes at length with many digressions, and issues proclamations of condemnation akin to the Muslim fatwas.

            I thank the Founding Fathers for their foresight in the matter. Tyrannical religious people gaining absolute power, and imposing a theocracy is not the America they envisioned nor wanted.
            And neither do we.

          • Neiman

            I really get tired of your games and your constant lies.

            It is only Christians that are being kicked out of the public square, not Muslims, not any other religions, because your socialist state cannot exist as long as Christianity has a voice. You must do what your godless Soviet predecessors did – declare an atheist state and punish Christians, including prison and death, it is all moving in the direction.

            If any religion can gain access legitimately to government and get the State to draft laws in conformity to their beliefs, they have that right. No one is denying them that access, only Christian are denied their rights.

            I say Obama is a Muslim because he had a Muslim father and to Islam the sons of Muslim fathers are Muslims, he spent some time in Indonesia I believe, in a Muslim school and can recite the Muslim call to prayer as well as any Muslim, he has been honored by American and Arabic leaders as their Mahdi, their promised Muslim Messiah, he bows down to Muslim leaders and has included Muslims in Christmas and Easter services/messages, even though those holidays are traditionally Christian, because he is helping them high jack those holidays. So, my labeling him a Muslim is not without just cause.

            Now, your hatred for Jesus, His Church and me personally are well noted and I have no intention of spending my life answering your insane accusations and dealing with your twisted logic and twisting of facts. You are beyond hope, short of God allowing some events in your life that may force you to your knees in repentance and seeking salvation in Christ. You are as low as Gay Bob and Hannah as a liar and a fraud, leading souls into hell and you will answer to God, not me.

            Now go away and lie to others, I am tired of your nonsense you cannot discuss things rationally, logically, civilly or decently, as you are eaten up by self loathing for the evil within you.

          • ellinas1

            Of course you are mistaken, for appearances are deceiving.
            Your kind of Christianity being very vocal and wanting to dominate and exclude all others has placed itself in a position of being opposed because it is contrary to the American ideals of freedom.

          • Neiman

            Strange, in the end times God said only Christianity, true Christianity would be opposed and hated. If the world rejects and opposes the Gospel message of Conviction of sin, Repentance from sin and Conversion to Christ by faith alone, which I teach – you can be sure the world would not reject that which is false because the world is wicked and ruled by the evil one, it will only oppose the Truth. You and your world embrace Islam as a legitimate religion and your world rejects Christ and is silencing the Church. Sounds like you are on the wrong side.

            God also says there will be little faith left on earth when Christ returns, the the Church will be a tiny minority and treated as criminals. If your version of Christianity is not hated, it cannot be the Truth.

          • ellinas1

            Strange thing for you to be speaking about the end times when Harold Camping your idol from Oakland got rebuked many times about predicting the end of times.

          • Neiman

            All you have are lies – there is no truth in you.

            I have no idols and I openly criticized Camping’s predictions, the difference between us is that you wanted to hang him and cast him into hell, all for your perverse pleasure. I looked at all the souls brought to Christ through his worldwide ministry, his confession of Christ and I was willing to leave him to God, preferring to think of him as a Christian caught up and brought down by vanity, but still a child of God. You attacked and hated him, a confessed Christian; while you declared an admitted non-Christian as being a Christian nonetheless, without Christ, because you think him a saint in his goodness.

          • ellinas1

            Criticized? BS. You sugar coated your “criticism” as you are doing now.
            But look how you treat clergy and laity of other denominations:
            “May God punish harshly every minister and proponent of the Greek
            Orthodox Church that by their lies, are leading countless souls into
            hell by a works-salvation doctrine.

            Camping brought no souls to Christ. He thought he was “hot shit” and he led them astray with his lies. You are willing “to leave him to God, preferring to think of him as a Christian caught up and brought down by vanity, but still a child of God.”

            You do not extend the same courtesy to other denominations, you are not as forgiving. That is your hypocrisy. That is your sin. This double standard is what makes you dangerous.

          • Neiman

            The Greek Orthodox Church, as I copied/pasted from their own website, teaches salvation by works of the flesh, progressively becoming more and more like Christ, which doctrine itself is antichrist. It takes His sacrifice on Calvary, His propitiation for all of our sins and His applied righteousness and gives man a role in his own salvation, that work which should be wholly of and by Christ Jesus alone, appropriated by faith. Works of the Law are to rob Jesus of His glory and say that man can by his flesh become good. Plus, it lays upon men the heavy yoke of bondage to obedience to the Law, which no man can obey, which bondage leaves those earnestly striving to live for Christ, in fear and self loathing (not you, as you make no attempt to live for Christ), because all men constantly sin and fail when in the flesh. I said perhaps punish was a poor choice versus discipline, although God will certainly deal harshly with anyone that leads souls away from Christ.

            You give every charity to those of the world that are enemies of Christ, but rejoice in every opportunity to attack Christians that have failed, you have no desire to see a Christian restored, lifted up and brought back into fellowship with Christ. To you, Christians fall and you want them in hell, because you hate them and by that, you hate Jesus whom they serve.

            You do not know Camping, I was not a fan and he did think he was an authority beyond other men on the Bible, but if you look at how he dressed and lived, it was in humble circumstances. You hate him I know, but his radio and short wave ministry he brought the Gospel to hundreds of millions of souls and the testimonies of those that hearing his programs, not just those with him on them, came to Jesus as Savior and Lord, unlike you. So those souls are credited by God to his account, despite all his human failings, he did far more to take the Gospel to the whole world than any other minister I know of, he certainly did more to advance the Gospel than you have.

            As to vanity bringing down God’s chosen vessels, you better include Moses, King David, Peter and Paul among those that due to vanity fell into disgrace and/or gross sin, but God lifted them up, because despite everything, they loved the Lord and were repentant when they sinned, unlike you.

            So get off it, you fail and make a fool of yourself with your every comment and are in a tiny minority here as an extreme liberal and Christ hater.

          • ellinas1

            The Orthodox and the Protestant teachings on
            salvation do not exactly carry the same weight, as the
            Protestant teaching of “faith only” happens to
            be a 16th-century novelty that was born out of the protest
            against the abuses of the Papacy. Neither the Apostles,
            nor the Eastern Fathers, nor the Latin Fathers taught
            about salvation this way.

          • Neiman

            Do you enjoy being wrong all the time. This is the danger of your false Church of works-salvation:

            The indulgences and other abuses of the Roman Catholic Church were only the stimulus behind the reformation, but salvation by grace alone, by faith alone and in Christ alone was the Apostolic Doctrine, long before men started to interfere with the Gospel and create religious organisms that they might have power over other men:

            (Ephesians 2:8-9) – “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.”

            (Rom. 3:20, 28)- “because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin…For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”

            (Galatians 2:16)- “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”

            So it was not a 16th century novelty, but a return to the original Apostolic Creed and salvation, as taught by the Holy Spirit. Men, ever wanting to place themselves at the center of all things and wanting to be better than other men saw in Christ’s teachings to the Jews about obeying the Commandments and James talking about the fruits of Salvation being good works, not works of the Law; seized the opportunity to use those verses to control other men and brag about their own participation in their being saved.

            However, (1) first of all the Old Testament and Jesus preaching to the Jews was only and always to show the futility of trying to be approved by God through obedience to the Law, as God said there was no one good, no not one and to fail in the smallest part of the Law was to Him to fail in every part of the Law. That is why you and Gay Bob and others are so wrong, to the point of being evil, to use Christ’s teachings to suggest that if people claiming to be Christians failed in any of these things, they were not Christians at all. As Jesus was teaching the impossibility of living that life outside of Him living it in and through each believer. (2) To suggest that Jesus is our Savior but that we must by our good works participate in that salvation, means Jesus failed to bring us salvation – He is a failed Savior, only to bring us to some vague door where we could, if we were good enough, earn that salvation ourselves. That false teaching says that, Jesus did not save us, that we are co-redemptors with Jesus, we are our own saviors. (3) Knowing the former parts to be true, we can accuse Jesus in failing at Calvary, because He did not save us, He only gave us the opportunity to save ourselves, placing us on His Throne and making us worthy of His Title of Savior.

            I know you will reject this, my responses are never for your benefit anyway, they are only meant to counter your ignorance and to set the record straight for other believers or for those that having tried and failed, who are without hope, showing them by God’s Word that salvation is a free gift appropriated by faith alone and that as the Spirit tells such believers in Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Those saved by faith can never be condemned or come into judgment of any kind.

            That is the Gospel of Grace and there is no other, all others are condemned by the Holy Spirit through Paul that said if anyone brings us another Gospel save by grace through faith in Christ, let that person or group be anathema.

          • ellinas1

            Jesus’ words: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
            But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
            that you may be sons of
            your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the
            good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
            And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

          • Neiman

            IMPOSSIBLE! No one can do it – NO ONE. It is Christ Jesus showing the JEWS (that was his audience) the absolute impossibility of one obeying the law enough to earn their salvation, which demands perfect obedience or in pleasing God by our poor performance. Then cast upon the shoals of despair, He offers us a new life in Him NOW, Him living His Life in and through us and yet even that due to free will and the weakness of the flesh fails, but thank God in Christ we have complete forgiveness for all our sins, past, present and future. So, we need no leave in fear, but rest in Christ’s Perfect, Completed work on our behalf. That is salvation by grace alone, by faith alone in Christ alone, all else is antichrist.

            Galatians 1:19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

          • ellinas1

            Man of little faith. In the name of Jesus nothing is impossible…. for a true Christian that heeds the true message of our Lord that command is attainable.
            That is why we are asked to confess our sins and ask for forgiveness.
            If at first you don’t succeed, you try again and again, until you have the routine down packed.
            Christianity is a lifelong journey.

          • Neiman

            1. You have certainly not attained it, not in the slightest degree.

            2. It is impossible:

            “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” James 2:10

            “There is none righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10).

            3. Your Jesus did not save anyone it seems, for each man must save himself by his own will power being perfect. We are all by your theology co-redemptors with Christ, we are our own saviors.

            4. A life long journey? What about the teenager coming to Christ and then dies, they had no life long journey to become perfect, did they. So, they could not save themselves and are lost?

            5. You do not even admit to committing any sins and those things He calls sins, like homosexuality you say are not sins and there is no need then to ask for forgiveness, right?

            6. To you and your Church grace is no longer Grace, Jesus failed to save us completely, we must add to His poor work if we hope to be saved. So, to the man that has strength and can obey God to the saving of His soul . . . but wait, no one is perfect, no one obeys all the law perfectly, so no one can save his own soul and Jesus, according to you, did not save us, as we must help save ourselves, so faith is no longer required, right.

          • ellinas1

            Three days ago I wrote this:” know you are unaware of this intolerance, and truth be told we that oppose your views on what it means to be Christian, do more harm by disparaging you, rather than engaging you in civil discourse. It is very hard and unchristian to resist sniping at you, for we believe you bring it upon you when you make what we see, perceive and know to be false
            pronouncements. in other words you invite ridicule by your intolerance, and we your debate opponents fall into the trap of never ending and all human trap of ridicule. It is easier to ridicule an opponent whose mind is closed, than to engage him in a civil way.”
            The above which you more than likely you did not read, is part of my journey.
            Just because I have not fully attained it it is not a reason for me to stop trying,
            Stop placing limitations upon yourself. With Jesus on your side everything is possible….why do you give up before even trying?
            I do greet you, refer to you as brother, love you with brotherly love, wish you Merry Christmas, etc, etc….. Try it some time….start with baby steps.

          • Neiman

            I offered you God’s Word to support the fact that if God’s Grace is not be only way unto Salvation, Jesus died in vain. I showed you from the Bible that by obeying the Law or trying to please Gd by the power of our will, is by God’s Word, an impossible task. But that Jesus told His disciples that what was impossible by men (earning one’s salvation) was possible with God, as God would save us by His power, by a free gift, by the propitiation of Christ and that all appropriated by faith. Which you reject.

            But, the Bible is not your standard of truth – never has been, you even call God stupid for not knowing, as you falsely assert, that homosexuality is innate. Rather, you only and always appeal to your frail, finite, always faulty human emotions and liberal ideology for you to tell God what He should think and do, including editing His Word for Him.

            If you knew Jesus, if you were devoted to Him at all; you would stop all your struggling, repent of all your sins and allow Him to live His Perfect, Holy Life through you and let Him alone save your lost soul. But it seems you are your own god and you even dare sit upon His throne and insist you can save yourself outside of Christ, by your good works. You steadfastly refuse to answer how your only real brother in spirit, Gay Bob, can possibly gain heaven when he admits he is not a Christian; and in your refusal, you open the door to the accusation that you are a universalist, an Oprah Winfrey type false Christian, believing all faiths are but different paths to God and that faith in Jesus is not the only way unto salvation.

            Oh, Jesus told us Christians that we would be ridiculed, attacked, hated and even when possible killed by those of the world like you three that, even profess to know Him, but inwardly are liars. You are, sadly in that last group and I am used to your, Hannah’s and Gay Bob’s attacks, because all three of your reject Jesus and His Salvation. Good luck with that!

          • ellinas1

            Yep, you missed it again;

            “if God’s Grace is not be only way unto Salvation, Jesus died in vain.”
            Do not be blinded, brother, by your erroneous views. No He did not die in vain. Evidence of this is the billion plus Christians of the world, evangelizing and doing good works in His Name.

          • Neiman

            Galatians 2:21 “I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

            Galatians 3:21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

            Once again you do not appeal to God’s Word, but to your own liberal emotions, your being outside of Christ and Him not being preeminent in all things in your life.

            A. There are not a billion plus Christians on earth, there may be that many that think they are Christians, but the Bible tells us many are called, but few are chosen. If they are not saved solely by grace they are lost – period

            B. No one has ever – not ever been saved by their good works. If Mother Theresa was not saved by grace alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone, she is in hell today.

            C. That is the whole basis of your declaring Gay Bob a Christian, you falsely think he is capable of good works – he is not, but even if his works surpassed that of Mother Theresa – he is just as lost and will suffer just as much in hell forever.

          • ellinas1

            Jesus told us Christians that we would be ridiculed,
            attacked, hated and even when possible killed by
            those of the world like you that, even profess to know Him.

            Neiman in reply to Ellinas:
            “Hey stupid Ellinas, wrong guy and wrong thread, but don’t let that stop your hate.”

            Neiman: “He, Ellinas and Gay Bob, all have issues with self loathing, they all suffer from ADD, they all refuse honest debate, preferring childish, emotional responses, which is all their intellects can handle.”

            Now, Mr. Neiman, go ahead and make your usual excuses.
            The one about truth in labeling would be very appropriate.

          • Neiman

            First, please grow up – most of the time I am not saying anything to you I would not say teasing my best buddy, my great big linebacker grandson. It is how we men talk; but please forgive me as I realize, and I am not trying to be rude here, that liberal men are proud to be in contact with their feminine side, they are not what I believe are real men, they are sensitive, politically correct and well, pardon me but to my generation, they seem sissified.

            It is not that I don’t want you to be a Christian, I do; and, it is not that you and I could not debate your works/salvation doctrines and disagree like Christian brothers. My problem is that I find your evasion of a crystal clear declaration of faith in Christ as both Savior and Lord troubling and contradictory; your seeming support for homosexuality, albeit I know you say you tell them to refrain as it is a sin and then you defend it as being not not so much a sin as being genetic; it is your inability to say abortion is murder and that you do not support that plank of the Democrat Party; and lastly, your seeming lack of charity for Christians that fall into sin and at the same time your seeming inability to criticize non-Christians for their sins at all. Those to me are, as they say, deal breakers, I do not see how a person can be a Christian and seem to be so much on the other side, the side of the world..

          • ellinas1

            We have divergent views Mr. Neiman, as we come from different ethnic, cultural, religious and political backgrounds and we have been shaped by our life experiences.

            We have to accept that we are different, and together celebrate our differences and refrain from petty bickering.

            People with far more superior intellect have not been able to reconcile the differences of their respective denominations, and neither will you and I.

            There is much more in that which unites us, than in what divides us.
            Let us concentrate in what we have in common. God will make his judgement on who was right and who was wrong. Maybe we both are wrong, Only God knows for sure.

            I do not lack charity for Christians. I hold them to a higher standard the the rest.

            As I have told you many times, I am not the kind of Christian who will fall to his knees, beat his chest and cry his lungs out asking for forgiveness. I do it my way and if that is not good enough for you so be it.

            My politics I have explained to you time and again. It is my belief and experience, that the Democrats do far more for the less fortunate than the Republicans. And for this reason, I will not change.

            I’d rather feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit the confined and infirm, console and provide care and guidance to the orphans than chase after homosexuals telling them their life is in danger because of their actions.
            Similarly concerning abortion I’d rather give counsel to young women and men, urging them to avoid and or postpone copulation until they have matured and are married, console the mother who aborted her child, feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit the the confined and infirm, console and provide care and guidance to the orphans, than run around and beat my chest in righteous indignation.
            God will care and provide for the aborted, my calling is for the living.

          • Neiman

            This was the great fault of Mother Theresa and many other Christians, they tend to the daily physical, material needs of the person, being kind, wiping away their tears, cleansing their wounds and then hold back Christ that they do not offend them, and in so doing we we do not offend them into hell. Surely the everlasting spiritual needs are far greater than all else, if we feed the body and starve the souls, better we had left them alone that at their deepest point of desperation they might seek God, which is their greatest need by far.

            Jesus was indignant when Judas spoke of selling some perfume used on Him for His soon burial, saying that money could be used for the poor. What was Jesus response, was he a liberal and say by all means sell it and give the money to the poor, set up a welfare system, treat them like children and ask nothing from them, as liberals would do? Or, did He remark that ministering to Him was of the greatest importance as He was going into the grave to save the world, saying “the poor you will always have with you.” Was that the liberal response? Or, did He place their spiritual need of Himself before these temporal needs?

            To be a brother one must first go through conviction of their sins and repentance and then have a new birth in Christ. Then through baptism and I don’t mean water, testify of their new life by public confession as often as asked and by no matter who asks. How else could I allow anyone else call me brother, if he is not part of the body of Christ and the family of God? No, I will not embrace anyone outside of Christ. Then, as I have told you I look at the fruits of their lives, their words and deeds and seeking the Holy Spirit, seek to determine if their confession was genuine. I cannot see how it can be and not call sin to be sin that they warn others of their fate without Christ, for that is the Love of God, saving souls.

            Works versus faith, the former being a shame to Christ Who has done it all for us, but with true confession of Christ, the person is a brother those errors notwithstanding.

            No, take them Christ first. A dear Christian man ran the Richmond Rescue Mission, when the destitute came for food, did hie just give it to them and send them on their way? No, he said they had to spend time first hearing God’s Word, he wanted to feed their spirits BEFORE their bodies and that is the way of Christ, the way of Calvary.

          • Matthew Hawkins

            Your hubris is amazing.

          • Neiman

            If that is true, then you must also accuse God of Hubris, for I only stand on His Word as best I can.

          • Matthew Hawkins

            So the way you deny your Hubris is to contend that your reading of the Bible is so correct that if I attack you I am attacking God?

            You are a ridiculous person who uses religion to attack others and show your superiority. You do this for the glory of Neiman, not Jesus. You are the least Christian person on this site.

          • Neiman

            A. You start by lying – I said I stand on God’s Word as best I can, not perfectly. So you may shove your hubris charge Matty!.

            B. I am not religious, I belong to no religion at all, so we will check this off based on your gross ignorance.

            C. Unless you are willing to confess Jesus as your only Savior and absolute Lord of your life – identifying your religion, then you will pardon me I am sure, if I do not accept your evaluation of my Christianity.

            D. Unless you can show by the Bible why I fail to meet your unspecified, mystical standard of Christianity and are willing to debate it, I guess you are just stopping by to make a fool of yourself, right?

            Thanks for stopping by and being a jerk, you seem to have achieved professional jerk status, congratulations.

          • ellinas1

            Mother Theresa was not a preacher, spiritual minister, priest, dominee, nor was she a Protestant Christian. She was Catholic Christian.
            You may not be aware but Catholic Christian women, especially those of her era, were illiterate and were/are prohibited from entering priesthood and preaching. Mother Theresa being a devout Catholic Christian honored that tradition, and like so many other men and women who enter monasticism, did and do what monks and nuns do:
            give counsel to young women and men, urging them to avoid and or
            postpone copulation until they have matured and are married, console the
            mother who aborted her child, feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit
            the the confined and infirm, console and provide care and guidance to
            the orphans, treat the ill etc. etc.
            You are unjustly criticizing that which you have no knowledge of, and are culturally very different.
            Some people, are called to minister the spiritual needs of people, some are called to minister the physical needs of the people, and others are called and able to fulfill both spiritual and physical ministries.

          • Neiman

            1. “women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.” I Corinthians 14:34 I agree that women should never be priests or have spiritual authority over men, because and only because that is what the Holy Spirit through Paul told us.

            2. Every Christian, in every sphere of life are evangelists, they are to first and foremost look to the spiritual needs of other human beings rather than their mere physical/materials needs, while not neglecting these latter things, they are of much less importance than their spiritual health, their eternal fate. While I agree that few have the gifts necessary and most feel shy about sharing Christ and thus being judged as a nutty Christian, in my experience the least skilled theologically have the greatest evangelical impact, because rather than speaking like ministers, they just share what Christ has done in their lives and their simple language carries great power.

            3. I have traveled the world and studied comparative religions and customs for nearly six decades of life, so I suspect I am at least as informed as yourself on these issues. Paul and Barnabus were often beaten and stoned and at risk of life because wherever they went the challenged people to look to Christ first and foremost.

            4. I used Mother Theresa primarily as an example because of her own good works not gaining anyone salvation, because she is recognized as having been very compassionate and enduring suffering for the least well of among us; yet, she also steadfastly refused to evangelize those she was treating/helping, she often said her goal was to make them better Hindu’s, Buddhists or whatever religion they were in, never converting them to Christ. That is antichrist!

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So Ms. Teresa is in hell right now, Old Pal?

            Is that where your made up god would have sent her?

          • Neiman

            I hate responding to your filthy, demonic lies you anti-Christ filth, as you are simply not worth the time/effort – your being a hate filled pathological liar; but for the benefit of others here at SAB, if you read all my comments in this conversation with Ellinas, you would have noted, although you would never have been honest enough to acknowledge it that, I said “IF” she did not come to faith in Christ alone, Him being here only Savior and Lord, her good works would gain her nothing but less suffering in hell. The point was that good works will get no one into heaven and life with Christ.

            It is like you, I do not care how good you think you are and you are a narcissist, you are an admitted non-Christian and therefore outside of grace alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone and you will spend eternity suffering in hell (absent repentance and conversion) – your good works do not mean anything to God as regards salvation.

            Note: Just because you or others might think they are good works, I assure you your most compassionate works are as nothing before God as regards life and eternity. Now please crawl back into hell.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, why do you lie, even to yourself?

            yet, she also steadfastly refused to evangelize those she was treating/helping, she often said her goal was to make them better
            Hindu’s, Buddhists or whatever religion they were in, never converting
            them to Christ. That is antichrist!

            Did your made up god sent Ms. Teresa to hell?

          • Neiman

            The failure to evangelize is an anti-Christ act, the absence of witnessing for Him, IMO, denies Him a chance at being their only savior. The act of omitting Christ is an anti-Christ act, not the person.

            But, you hate Jesus so much you will twist everything in service to your father in hell to attack Christ and His Church. Now you are of the spirit of anti-Christ.

            God sends no one to hell, you Gay Bob will go there by your own free will choice.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So your made up god will send people to hell if he catches them not selling him to other people, is that what you’re saying, Old Pal?

          • Neiman

            Ellinas and I were have a perfectly decent debate and you come along like your father to destroy and spread your lying filth.

            Go away and talk to your father in hell, I will not respond further to your lies.

            The answer is NO! You liar!

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Thank you for your continuing response, Old Pal.
            I look forward to many more chats in the future.

            Happy New Year!

          • Neiman

            I would tell you to go to hell, but that is your happy place, your home and will make you happy.

            Have the worst new year in your life this coming year, may it be devastating to your life, may you be crushed under its weight.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Again, thank you for your continuing response, Old Pal.

            By the way, why to you hate the teachings of the real Jesus?

            46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

            47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

            I love you, Old Pal. Do you love me?

          • ellinas1

            You said it is impossible to to this:
            “46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
            47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?”

            You have closed your mind and are not even trying.
            As I said…Christianity is a lifelong journey, a trial by fire if you will.
            If you allow Jesus to come into your life, you will attain that worthwhile goal, for you will be filled with love for your fellow man and will be a shining beacon who lights up to guide people to safety.
            The Beacon guides all ships to safety, if they heed it’s directions. The only ones that are lost are the ones that ignored the directions of the Beacon.

          • Neiman

            It is I fear a lack of your understanding of the difference between the flesh and the Spirit, as not being Born Again, you cannot have His Spirit in you. But, by the Holy Spirit, the full counsel of God, it goes this way:

            Romans Seven
            7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

            13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means!
            Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

            14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

            21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

            So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.”

            Romans Eight

            8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

            5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

            Galatians Two

            19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

            We find that I agree with the Holy Spirit that, in our flesh, our natural bodies dwells no good thing. We are as to our flesh and blood totally incapable of living for Christ and imitating Him, if we think we are, we are only fooling ourselves and frustrating the Spirit within. It is impossible to live for the Lord as we ought. But, by faith we can die to the old nature, having the Perfect Holy Spirit of Christ living in us and working out His Will in our lives and thereby find we are fulfilling all the teachings of Christ, but it is not us doing it at all, rather it is Christ living His life in and through our lives.

            The works you talk about, this progressive salvation is being attempted through your flesh, which God has already condemned and that condemned man cannot obey God at all. So, that old man must die by faith and by the same faith Christ live His perfect life in and through us, anything else as Paul taught will only show us how utterly sinful we are and doomed to failure and as the Spirit tells us, to be what Jesus taught, which only He can accomplish, we need to die by faith and have our new life – here in this world, in Christ. All else is false and a failure.

            I steadfastly say no man can truly live for Christ and fulfill those teachings – no not one, there is no one capable in the flesh. That is what Christ taught us and Paul tells us the lesson.

          • ellinas1

            You can have a decent debate with Bob. I see no impediment other than your stubbornness and refusal to treat him as your neighbor as Jesus commands us.
            Let go of your hatred for him. Embrace him in a Christ like manner.
            You can accomplish more by offering honey instead of vinegar.

          • Neiman

            I appreciate you have your own views, but I consider him a demon and will not embrace a demon, neither did Jesus, He cast them out. I only hate the evil in him. I tried debating decently with him many times, but like the swine Jesus warns us of, he only turns to rend (attack) me and I have given his souls over to the devil.

          • ellinas1

            What you wrote, is unacceptable to me.
            Surely you can do better than that.

            When Bobs slaps with that which you profess to have, accept the rebuke and look into your heart. Turn the other cheek, and seek peace, not confrontation.

          • Neiman

            Slow down, I cannot respond to serial comments and I do have to run some errands.

            My guide is NOT what is acceptable or unacceptable to you. You do realize that, right? I only seek what is acceptable to Jesus, not any man.

            I disagree, in Gay Bob I believe I am dealing with demons and have no need to turn my other check to them, but to confront him with his lies. Jesus casts them out, He does not deal with them or turn the other cheek.

            Why instead of continuing our better communications, do you feel the need to defend Gay Bob and get off track (I think that is his goal in cutting in on our conversations), while you have never defended me to him or defended any other Christian her at SAB, only non-Christians? Why is it that you love non-Christians more than Christ, of whom all Christians are members of His Body? When you refuse to stand with Christians, you make yourself their enemy and an enemy of Christ.

          • ellinas1

            How soon do you forget?
            Bob and I have defended you many times.

            Your view of Bob as erroneous.
            Our conversation is not a private one. It is done in the open for everyone to see and participate if they so wish.
            Do not take my changed attitude as softening to your views.
            On the contrary. The more I learn, the more I dislike your views.

          • Neiman

            Do not take my changed attitude as softening to your views. On the contrary. The more I learn, the more I dislike your views.

            Ditto on the above.

            Gay Bob is a demon possessed liar, by biblical definition a child of hell. He is NOT by his own admission a Christian, a born again believer, that alone makes him an enemy of Christ. Oh, I forgot that you think even though he admits he is no Christian that, because you have judged him as being good (even though God says no one is good – no not one), he is a Christian and saved anyway, right? Yet, neither of you can explain by the Bible how that non-Christian – Christian thing works.

            Anyone that defends homosexuality as not being a mortal sin and abortion not to be a mortal sin, is to at least that degree, anti-Christ and you cannot prove God agrees with either position in the slightest degree.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Oh, hey look Old Pal, here is your hero honoring the woman you’ve called anti-Christ.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La6oNCcJNFY

            Ya know his initials came out to 666.

            Ronald Reagan Picture: Ronald Reagan Presents the Medal of Freedom to Mother Teresa

          • ellinas1

            Read above what I wrote for his perusal and pleasure.
            He would rather coerce Christianity down the throats of people, than allow them to come To Jesus under their free will. In short I have to say that his method is akin to conversion under the threat of the sword. His method is no different than that of which he rails almost daily: Conversion to the Muslim faith under the threat of the sword.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            I pray for Neiman to find the love of God and let His light shine on his soul, rescuing him from his bitter hatred and loathing of God’s children.

          • ellinas1

            My sentiment exactly. He said it is impossible for man to do this:
            “46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
            47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?”

            I am showing him by example that all things are possible. Especially if he brought down the artificial barriers he has erected.
            I know from what you write that you are rebuking him out of true Christian love. He is not having any of it, for his heart is not yet pure.
            He fails to realize that many methods exist for the delivery of His message, and your is one of the tried and true methods to keep the flock in check. He is stuck in the erroneous and prideful belief that his particular denomination is the correct one.
            We have a long journey ahead of us.
            Keep up the good work.

            PS: Before I forget, I wish you and yours a Happy New Year, filled with health and good Christian works.

          • ellinas1

            That is a good thing and it is the Christian way.

          • ellinas1

            “I have traveled the world and studied comparative religions and customs for nearly six decades of life,…..”

            I have also traveled the world and studied comparative religions and customs, while at the same time having a good time among the natives. I did not seek to change them, I sought to understand them.

            I studied human behavior for 25 years.I tried to understand why they thought and acted the way they did. I wanted to know what made them tick.

            History is littered with examples of western people trying to change that which they did not understand. They tried to shape them in their own image, and in the process destroyed them. I will use as an example (albeit a poor one) the natives of the USA. Well intended Christians tried to remake them in their own image. The results were disastrous.

          • Neiman

            Sadly, you seemed to have traveled without Christ and here again, you look at the Christians evangelizing souls and always talk against them, accusing them of harming these people, as you are ALWAYS against people of faith and condemn them for their failures, never lift them up or look for reasons to commend them and love them as children of God. You in fact consistently, look down on Christians and lift up non-Christians, like Gay Bob.

            It is only your opinion and those of the world that their efforts were disastrous. God does not see things as you or I see them and it is our task to, by His Word, align ourselves with His vision and His Will and His Way, and let go of our frail, finite, flesh and blood opinions.

            So many things you call disastrous, because the missionaries brought with them western values and tried to change the cultures, were directed at cultures serving false gods and bound for hell anyway, they were without hope in the world and they reacted violently to people opposing their false gods. even killing those dear children of God bringing them hope in Christ; but, as in a case I have mentioned before, wherein missionaries seemed to have failed miserably in the Congo, making seeming shipwreck of their lives, with the passage of time, they were shown how a single saved soul that they ministered the Gospel to, he lit revival fires that brought hundreds of thousands to salvation in Christ. The disaster was a great victory for Christ.

            Christ’s own ministry seemed an absolute failure, He was crucified, His followers fled from Him, after His ascent back into Heaven His followers were persecuted, killed and His Church seemed to fall apart, fall into schisms and was very small in number. Yet, we now mark time by His life, the world came to know Christ, millions have been saved and even now, while the Left is doing all it can to destroy the faith and numerically succeeding, His Church in Spirit is triumphant.

            I am glad the Lord does not measure things the way you do and I am glad He is not about attacking and destroying His children for their errors, even often gross errors, as you seem to rejoice in doing, I am glad He does not defend sin and sinners as you always seem to do, I am glad that He, through His true children, calls men to repentance and Salvation and will until the end.

          • ellinas1

            I went to learn, not to teach.
            I went to learn, not to change.
            I learned, and the knowledge changed me.

          • Neiman

            Meaningless sophistry, it has nothing at all to do with Jesus and how He wants us to interact with the world. His way is to change the hearts of men and He sends teachers and ministers and helpers and they all preach the Gospel to the saving of souls. That is more important than ANYTHING, that means there is NOTHING of greater importance.

          • ellinas1

            Mr. Neiman says: “Surely the everlasting spiritual needs are far greater than all else, if we feed the body and starve the souls, better we had left them alone that at their deepest point of desperation they might seek God, which is their greatest need by far.”

            I wish you would reexamine this view, for it is totally antithetical to Christ’s teachings. It appears to me, that you wish to beat down, threaten and coerce them into Jesus rather than allowing them to come to Jesus with a healthy body and mind and of their free will.
            Withholding nutrition and care as a tool to bring someone to Jesus, is cruel and not something Jesus taught. He healed first and then he preached. He fed the multitudes and then delivered His message of salvation.
            Sure, there are passages/verses in the writings of the Disciples, but those are not to be used literally as a tool to proselytize.

            Look at these gems:
            Eph 2:10 It is God himself who has made us what we are and given us new lives from Christ Jesus; and long ages ago he planned that we should spend these lives in helping others.

            James
            2:14 Dear brothers, what’s the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren’t proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone?
            James 2:15 If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing, James 2:16 and you say to him, “Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty,” and then don’t give him clothes or food, what good does that do?
            James 2:17 So you see, it isn’t enough just to have faith. You must
            also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn’t show itself by good works is no faith at all–it is dead and useless. James 2:18 But someone may well argue, “You say the way to God is by faith alone, plus nothing; well, I say that good works are important too, for without good works you can’t prove whether you have faith or not; but anyone can see that I have faith by the way I act.” James 2:19 Are there still some among you who hold that “only believing” is enough? Believing in one God? Well,
            remember that the demons believe this too–so strongly that they tremble in terror! James 2:20 Fool! When will you ever learn that “believing” is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith.

            Mat.25:34
            “Then I, the King, shall say to those
            at my right, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, into the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. Mat. 25:35 For I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me water; I was a stranger and you invited me into your homes; Mat. 25:36 naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison, and you visited me.’

            Mat. 25:37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Sir, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you anything to drink? Mat. 25:38 Or a stranger, and help you? Or naked, and clothe you? Mat. 25:39 When did we ever see yousick or in prison, and visit you?’ Mat. 25:40 “And I, the King, will tell them, ‘When you did it to these my brothers you were doing it to me!’ Mat. 25:41 Then I will turn to those on my left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. Mat. 25:42 For I was hungry and you wouldn’t feed me; thirsty, and you wouldn’t give me anything to drink; Mat 25:43 a stranger, and you refused me hospitality; naked, and you wouldn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ Mat. 25:44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ Mat 25:45 “And I will answer, ‘When you refused to help the least of these my brothers, you were refusing help to me.’ Mat. 25:46 “And they shall go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into everlasting life.”

            There are more like these, but I will refrain from posting them because they are easy to find if you look for them.

            In conclusion brother, I am willing to accept you as you are.
            I will feed you, clothe you, tend your wounds, console you for the loss of your child/parent, and when you are well and willing I will tend to your spiritual needs.

            You are not willing to accept me as I am, for you place a higher value to converting me to your way through hunger, illness and coercion. You say do this and I will accept you, feed you, tend your wounds, console you for the loss of your child/parent etc. etc.
            I treat you as the neighbor Jesus speaks about.
            You want to treat me as a notch on your belt, a reminder that you converted me. Something you can brag about,

            The “dear Christian” in Richmond who you are so fond about, IMHO used his position of power that God entrusted him with, and he abused that power and the people who came knocking at the door of the mission.
            He used coercion to deliver Gods message. He was/is forcing the message down the throats of people, not allowing them to make up their own minds as to whether or not receive the message.
            If Gods message is not received through one’s free will than it is not different than conversion under the threat of the sword.

            In mother Teresa’s defense, I say she was teaching by example.
            She was using her charity to Glorify Jesus’ Name, so that the unbelievers seeing what Her Jesus was about would seek him, and accept him, not because they were hungry, thirsty and ill, but because their spirit was thirsty for the Truth.

          • Neiman

            There are just far too many errors above to respond in detail now – I have errands to run. But, on almost every point we disagree.

            I am not here to attack the dead, I only used Mother Theresa in our conversation as an example that good works save no one, I said “if” and that “if” implies lack of direct knowledge on my part, “if” she was not born again in Christ Jesus, her works only lessen the degree of her torments in hell; however, if she was born again of His Spirit, it was her faith in Jesus alone that saved her not one of her works; but did you know that she absolutely refused to talk about Jesus and stated her goal was by ministering to the body only make them better Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists and it was her rule that none of her sisters spread the gospel among these people? Does that sound like Jesus was her greatest love and that she loved these people so much she wanted them saved or does it appear more like she was only garnering bouquets of praise for herself and her self created humility?

            There is only one God and He is God to all;
            therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God.
            I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu,
            a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.

            Did Jesus want to make followers of other gods better followers of those gods. Is that what Paul did, minister to the poor and leave them alone in their non-Christian faiths?

            Isn’t that kind of what you believe that, there is One God and whether a Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist or like Gay Bob an admitted non-believer, all religions are but different ways to salvation, with or without Jesus?

          • ellinas1

            Did Jesus say he did not come to change the Law?
            Or did he aspire to make the Jews better Jews.

          • Neiman

            I refer you to the Holy Spirit in Romans 6, 7 and 8.

          • ellinas1

            You are concentrating only on what Paul wrote,
            You also have to examine this Epistle as to the reason why he wrote it and to whom it was addressed to.
            Then and only then you will have the full context and understanding of this Epistle.

          • Neiman

            What Epistle?

            If you mean Romans, it was addressed to the Church in Rome, not Romans, but the Christian Church there and what difference does it make? The Holy Spirit through Him was talking to all Christians of all times and whether you like it or not, whether it fits into your works oriented theology or not, it was to show forth that struggle to serve in the flesh and its futility and living in the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ within that brings victory. You cannot divorce it from Galatians 2:

            “20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing.”

            You are setting aside Grace alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone, denying the new birth in Christ wherein is complete rest from all our labors, peace with God about our sins and everlasting life. You are still in Egypt, you have not crossed over into the rest in Christ’s perfect, finished work.

          • ellinas1

            Mother Teresa, being human and shaped by her experiences, and having seen so much suffering questioned Christianity many times. As I told you, her ministry was not one of preaching. Her ministry was one of service to the unfortunate ones.
            She was not perfect, she was a frail human being. Does she deserve criticism? Most assuredly. Does she deserve praise? I do not know. That is the job of her critics and detractors.
            This is a quote from Mother Teresa:
            “By blood, I am Albanian. By citizenship, an Indian. By faith, I
            am a Catholic nun. As to my calling, I belong to the world. As to my
            heart, I belong entirely to the Heart of Jesus.”

            And this is another: “Where is my faith? Even deep down … there is nothing but emptiness and darkness … If there be God—please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul … How painful is this unknown pain—I have no Faith. Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal, … What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can beno soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true”

            And this one from Jesus: “Eli Eli lama sabachthani?”

          • Neiman

            You cannot get past the fact that as an alleged Christian, she did NOT witness to those she cared for about Christ’s Love and in matter of fact, she said she only wanted to make them better at serving their pagan gods. Tell me that Jesus wanted to help the people better serve their pagan gods, show it to me.

            I do not know if she ever gave her live to Christ, I only know she refused to testify of His Salvation to those she treated and completely the opposite, reinforced their allegiances to pagan gods.

          • ellinas1

            You cannot get past the fact that as a Christian, she did NOT
            witness to those she cared for about Christ’s Love, because her calling was not to preach but to serve.

          • Neiman

            While it is the duty, the blessing, the grace of God for every Christian to share Christ liberally with everyone we meet, at every opportunity and she failed miserably to share her faith with the very people she was helping; but much, much worse, she affirmed their faith in foreign, pagan gods and one simply cannot act more anti-Christ than that.

          • ellinas1

            I would like to remind you that the Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons do that which you refer to.
            You have to accept that her faith and ministry was different than yours.

            Joel Osteen shares Christ liberally with everyone he meet, at every opportunity and he fails miserably to deliver the true faith and as you say “one simply cannot act more anti-Christ than that.”

          • Neiman

            No, the JW’s and LDS are works oriented non-Christians, they labor to win souls away from Christ to their dead churches. Yet, it would be better for the world if Christians everywhere did evangelize (share their faith) every day to everyone they meet.

            A wise Christian I knew that devoted his life to the poor, much, much more in daily sacrifices than you or your liberal or me and my conservative friends could ever do (that is not an insult), one day said something that is very close to Flamemeisters term about so many that claim Christianity are actually practical atheists. He said that we Christians don’t really believe Jesus is coming soon or could come at any moment or about hell for those outside of Christ. He continued that if they did, if they really believed His Word, there would be nothing that would keep them from talking today to every relative and friend and co-worker about salvation in Christ, as surely they would want to save them from God’s Wrath. Thus, you encourage that spiritual sloth, you say if you were not specifically called to be an evangelist, you have no need to share Christ, just do your little job and be a good person by the power of your fallen flesh and that is all you have to do.

            As a liberal, you always change the focus, we were not talking about Osteen or other ministers or other false faiths. The subject was Christ and in a narrow context which you have chosen to widen, about Mother Theresa, solely to illustrate that works save no one.

          • ellinas1

            “Did Jesus want to make followers of other gods better followers of those
            gods. Is that what Paul did, minister to the poor and leave them alone
            in their non-Christian faiths?”

            Did Jesus use coercion to spread His Message?

            Did he teach condemnation against those that could not preach?

          • Neiman

            Nice try, but no cigar!

            Wasn’t it coercion for Jesus to talk about hell? Or John the Baptist or Paul or John the Apostle?

            Nonetheless: “The classic verse promoting apologetics (the defense of the Christian faith) is 1 Peter 3:15, which says that believers are to make a defense “for the hope that you have.” The only way to do this effectively is to study the reasons why we believe what we believe. This will prepare us to “demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ,” as Paul said we should (2 Corinthians 10:5)”

            I Peter 3:15 “15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:”

            II Corinthians 10:3-5: “3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God.”

            Set it all aside, no one having faced their just deserts of hell and never ending punishing, having rejoiced at His Salvation, His gift to us by Grace, could if they knew Christ as Savior, Lord and Friend at all, restrain themselves from sharing His salvation with everyone. Those Christians who don’t, usually refrain because they know what poor examples of the faith they are or do not want to be seen as a Bible Thumpers or a extreme Christian fanatics or for a host of reasons, are ashamed of Christ. It is all excuses, as is your errant claim they are not called as evangelists.

          • ellinas1

            The real coercion in this instance is the withholding of nourishment.

          • Neiman

            No, the sin here would be the withholding of spiritual nourishment, which is of much greater need and value for every human being than food for the body. Notice when Jesus fed the multitudes, it was always after He taught them, called them to Repentance and gave them the Gospel of Salvation. THEN knowing they would also be in need of nourishment of the body, He fed them. He never fed them of the things needful for the body first. No, Jesus fed the Spirit first and His ministers, all His children, should see that spiritual nourishment is of much greater importance than food for the body.

            If a man needs food, clothing, shelter, the only true necessities of physical life and would turn to Jesus asking His help, if we meet those needs first, then what need does he have for Christ? If a man has everything he needs in this life, he will be satisfied and not look to eternity. So, the Christian does care about feeding, clothing and giving shelter to those in need; but takes the opportunity first to feed the spirit unto life eternal. That is what Jesus chastised religious leaders for failing to do, putting temporal needs above the spiritual, He said not to neglect the body, but to put spiritual things first.

            But, for a man that puts works ahead of Grace, I am not shocked at your misplaced priorities. It is also reflected in your liberalism, your misplaced compassion, to provide welfare for those in need and neglecting the spiritual degradation of our nation. If God be first He would bless us again, but place these worldly things first and the Lord will withhold His blessings.

            Parenthetical note: This is also why I will never support charitable giving by the government or entertainers, both looking for glory for themselves; but we know inwardly they are all serving Satan. When they take our money, either of them and help those in need, they only look to the physical needs, not the spiritual needs of the people or the glory of God. So, I prefer as the Lord taught us – individual charity even giving from our own lack of resources.

          • ellinas1

            Neiman: “A life long journey? What about the teenager coming to Christ and then dies, they had no life long journey to become perfect, did they. So, they could not save themselves and are lost?”

            Yes. A lifelong journey.
            When the teenager’s life ended so did his lifelong journey.
            Surely you know that his short life was enough for God to pronounce a proper judgment.
            Man of little faith! You are underestimating Gods capacity for love and mercy.

          • Neiman

            Show that to me in Scripture!

            It is nonsense to suggest I have little faith or underestimate God. You are the one that says Jesus could not save us to the uttermost, we by our works of the flesh have to add to His Work on Calvary and to some degree be our own redeemers. Oh wait, I get it now, since you are saving yourself by your works and are at least partially your own redeemer, your faith in God is really faith in yourself as your own god, right? Got it.

            Why do you never answer me about how Gay Bob, an admitted non-Christian can by his good works (in your estimation) and without faith in Jesus, still be a Christian and gain Heaven. Oh, wait, like you he too is his own god and is saving himself?

            That is a pretty wild Christianity you got. You guys work out your own salvation by doing good works and can be saved without or without Jesus. That Jesus of the Bible is a punk and a liar, pretending to save us by His sacrifice on Calvary and His resurrection, but really not saving us, because we get to save ourselves and people like Gay Bob do not need Him at all.

          • Neiman

            It always amazes me that those of you without a new birth in Christ and those of the world like Gay Bob, always ask Christians to do what you do not do at all, turn the other cheek. This is wonderful for you liberals, you are telling all Christian Conservatives to surrender and let you win every debate by default. You say if you are Christians do this, but we will not do it at all and we will just slap the crap out of you sissy Christians.

            Jesus never said what to do after you turn both cheeks, I prefer to believe it is left it up to us to beat the crap out of those on your side.

      • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

        Well well well, Old Pal, if you aren’t the poster boy of anti Christ teachings, no one is.

        Matthew 5:43-48

        43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

        44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

        45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

        46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

        47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

        48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

        God is love, Old Pal.

        I love you and pray for you and hope someday you will let God’s love into your cold dark heart.

        What did Santa bring you?

        • Neiman

          a. You are an admitted non-Christian and cannot possibly know anything about the Almighty Creator God of the Christian faith or His Word. No one knows what pig god you do serve, hint – its Satan.

          b. You are a known pathological liar.

          c. You are a known accomplice to the mass murder of over 50 million helpless, innocent children.

          d. You are known to lies gays into hell, to join you and your father there.

          e. I do not want you praying for me to your pig, non-Christian god.

          f. Like above, you are a known demon possessed game player.

          g. You know NOTHING about salvation.

          h. You refuse to tell people, as a non-Christian, how you your think (falsely) that you will get to heaven.

          i. You are a known child of hell.

          j. I hope you had a miserable Christmas, but Satan probably treated you pretty good being one of his best disciples and all.

          j. The only thing that will save you is for God to cause a great, horrific catastrophe in your life to drive you to admit you are a hell bound sinner (Conviction), to cause you to seek forgiveness for your multitude of lies and other sins (Repentance) and ask Jesus to save your sin sick soul (Conversion). Otherwise, you will spend eternity in hell, suffering without end for your lies, your murders, the souls you led into hell and multitude of other sins.

          Now leave me alone, I am not in the mood for your demon possessed games, go talk to your father in hell.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Oh Old Pal, did Santa bring you coal again?
            You know nothing of the Christ and His good news.

          • Neiman

            Still lying I see – I am not your pal LIAR.

            How does an admitted non-Christian (you) know anything about Jesus, explain that one to me.

            You rejected His Salvation (Good News) so how does it benefit you, please explain.

            What did Santa bring you – more gay and child porn?

            I see you did not answer any of my charges above – you NEVER do because you are also a coward.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Why the double standard, Old Pal?

            You typically avoid answering my questions.

            By your own definition, that makes you a coward.

          • Neiman

            Thank you for continuing to prove my charges about you being a pathological liar. I answer in the high ninety percentile all your questions/charges, you answer ZERO. Cute, self serving one-liners are NOT answers.

            I know, we can start with this one Liar: How do you get to Heaven without being a Christian, remembering you are a self admitted non-Christian? How do you get there without being saved? No cute one-liners, an absolute, in-depth. documented answer that can be researched and refuted is the only acceptable reply.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            God lets you in.

          • Neiman

            That is not an answer and you know it, that is playing games.

            1. What God are you talking about, representing which religion? Isn’t it fair that we ask you what religion and what other name He goes by? As surely that is what separates Christianity from all other faiths, we use the Name Jesus, He is God, we do not use a generic name that could apply to any god of any religion. Islam uses Allah, the moon god.

            2. On what basis does your god let some people into heaven and does not allow other people in, what is the exact standard to get a ticket up?

            3. Where is the documentation to support your beliefs, what book, what religion, where do I go to research your claim EXACTLY, chapter and sentence? Don’t I have the right to know where your claim is documented that I might find out for myself?

            “[The jailer] “brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
            And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house”
            (Acts 16:30-31)

            4. But, you say you are not a Christian, you have rejected Christ as the only means of your salvation, so may we assume your religion cannot be the Christian faith, but something else?

            That is how we discuss issues and learn and grow, but four little words “God lets you in” explains nothing.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, God lets them in.

            Will your god send the pygmy who has led a good life to eternal damnation if he never heard the Good News?

          • Neiman

            More lies – I am not your pal.

            More games, that was not an answer and you know it, you gave no specifics and thus are lying by omission. Lie $#2

            I will not answer your nonsensical question, because it was more demonic games, not an attempt to answer anything.

            My God, Almighty God the Creator, only and always deserves His Name capitalized.

            So, as I said and you have proven, you never answer questions, you only play games with nonsensical, vacuous, inane one-liners and you ALWAYS lie. So, go away, you are just playing games and I am not interested. If you are not adult enough to answer questions, you deserve no respect and no answers.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            You don’t think your made up god is the real God, do you, Old Pal?

          • Neiman

            Millions of Christian believe Him to be real.

            You still did not answer any questions and you lied!

        • ellinas1

          46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the REpublicans do the same?

          47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the REpublicans so?

          There. I fixed the scripture for you.

  • $8194357

    With Barry and ther UN’s blessing the Muslim Brotherhood is ethinic cleanseing Christianity from the middle east.
    Coming to a nation near you soon?
    Already been heere to some degree for along time..

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/12/christianity-close-to-extinction-in-middle-east.html

    Christianity “close to extinction” in Middle East

    Why? It’s a question that the media never asks, because they know the answer and they work furiously to obfuscate
    and cover up the why and the who.

    Everywhere Islam goes, everything and everyone must submit or …. die.
    Dhimmitude may be percevied as a third choice, but it is merely a slow and
    painful death.

    And all these churches and synagogues twinning with mosques. Why aren’t these
    Pastors and Rabbis addressing this with Islamic clergy? Because these quislings
    are afraid to speak the truth.

    “Christianity ‘close to extinction’ in Middle East”
    Telegraph December 23, 2012, (thanks to Ken)

    Christianity faces being wiped out of the “biblical heartlands” in
    the Middle East because of mounting persecution of worshippers, according to a new report.

    • Neiman

      Yes, I read all that other places. Isn’t it great! These are signs of the End Times and encouragement that Jesus return is near. For those under the delusion taking control of this world, I can only feel pity.

      • tony_o2

        I’m not sure I understand why you are looking forward to the End Times. Shouldn’t we be praying that mankind change its ways and forego the need for God to end it all?

        Some may look forward to prophecy being fulfilled, but why? Is it for vindication of their beliefs, is it because God’s vengeance is better than his mercy, or is it something else?

        • Neiman

          Actually, Christians are looking for Jesus return, not the end of the world; but surely you understand that the signs that we are approaching the end, are encouraging, because we know it heralds Christ’s soon return.

          From the Bible we learn that God is outside of all space and time, He sees all things in this life from beginning to end and when He prophecies events, He is telling us what in His view has already occurred, He is speaking in the now about what has already happened. So, we know mankind will not change its ways or should I say did not change their ways and so it is foolish to hope man can or will redeem himself, we know that is not what happened from God’s testimony.

          We do not need our beliefs vindicated, we trust in God because we know Him by His Word and His Spirit within, we know He is faithful and True. God says that mercy is better than judgment, so not willing that anyone will be lost, He offers everyone, even His worst enemies, salvation and eternal life as a free gift. The fly in the ointment is that He gave us the free will to accept or reject His gift and all who fail to gain His Salvation and never ending life, chose to reject that offer, they go to their judgment by their own choice.

          God is Love and real love, especially Divine Love, demands willing objects upon which it can bestow His generosity, kindness, mercy and all good things; just understand, love insists upon sharing. But, if you have ever loved someone and they did not return that love, you know they had that right, you had to allow them to choose to reject you. If you somehow manipulated them and forced them to act like they love you back, you would know it and you would never be happy with that kind of forced love. So, God could not make us love Him, He had to having willing recipients of His love, a people that loved Him in return. So, He gave us free will and a life wherein we could accept or reject His love by our own choice. He already knows who will and who will not accept His salvation and return His Love, and when that last person comes into His family, the end will come.

          It will not please His loving heart that any one will perish and suffer for their wrong choice; but He had to let them choose and after this life the book is closed, after all if we went into eternity in absolute darkness, alone and tormented by our loss of life, sure we would profess love for Him then, we would beg for another chance, but that love would be as reaction to fear not real love. So, here is the testing ground and here we make our choice. It is not vengeance, it is allowing us to have a free will.

          I hope this answers your questions, I tend to go on a bit, because I love the Lord and love talking about Him.

          • ellinas1

            Merry Christmas Neiman!

          • Neiman

            I wish I could say the same to you, but it cannot be a merry Christmas for you – ever, unless Convicted of your sins you Repent and are Converted (saved). Until then it is a false Christmas for you, your being outside of Christ, it is a vain expression of no value to your life. Seek Christ Jesus and then worship Him alone and seek His forgiveness, then you will have a merry Christmas.

            Until then, we are in no way, shape, manner or form brothers, you must first have the Spirit of Christ to make that claim. I have told you this many times and yet you insist on claiming a brotherhood that does not exist and you know it.

          • banjo kid

            Merry Christmas to you and I hope you find the Lord for He has a gift for us all it is there for the taking and during this time I ask that God find you ,you only have to look and He will find you .
            The plan of salvation is so simple though a wayfaring man though he be a fool can understand it . My prayer today is as always that all will be saved and know the true glory of our God. A real good place to start that search is on ones knees.

        • banjo kid

          No one will be cast away that does not deserve it . Vengeance on an evil that will exist until His return, could you not stand the thought of no killings reported today and every day for eternity? I look forward to seeing Jesus and to have a body incorruptible with no pain and no disease . The better world you want is with in your reach just reach out and receive the free gift . The plan of salvation is so simple that a wayfaring man though he be a fool can understand it . Just admit you are a sinner and believe that Jesus was born from a virgin birth and died on the cross and spilled His blood to cover those sins of those that believe. also believe He rose on the third day . His desire is that none perish but we do have a free will, we can live our life and accept Him or die in sin and suffer the consequences . At least look at it, examine it, search it out, do not dismiss this wonderful chance He has given to the world . Today is the time of salvation.

          • $8194357

            Today is the day for Salvation for no one is quarenteed tomorrow.

        • slackwarerobert

          Not if it means 5 generations of my children living in abject terror of the state. Better to send the tyrants to jesus so they can explain their actions. If justified, jesus can resurrect them. I know when obama rises from the dead I am in deep dodo.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

    In the Spirit of Christmas, here’s hoping that Santa Claus visits even Hannitized under his bridge this year, and brings him the lump of coal he richly deserves, to keep the fire burning in his 55 gal steel drum until New Years! Merry Christmas, everyone!

    • banjo kid

      Always the razor blade soup before breakfast. My wish for salvation does definitely extend to all here . I hope all is well with thy soul.

    • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

      PROOFoundly_obsessed, I would have expected nothing less from you on this day.

      • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

        “On this day”…you show up on a political blog on Christmas Day to comment on what I had said the day before, and this somehow makes you less pathetic, PatheticLosertized?

        Yeah. Right.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Proofoundly_Obsessed, I did not come to the blog to post a rant dedicated to you, but you had done so for me. This speaks quite clearly as to your disorder.

          You may now return to your obsessive nature.

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

            Thank you for demonstrating your illiteracy once again. I wished everyone a Merry Christmas. I suppose I could have provided Closed Captioning for the Humor Impaired, in case you didn’t get the joke.

            BTW, being the butt of a joke doesn’t make everything about you, Tiny Narcissist. You may not have come to the blog to post any more rants than usually, but you did show up on both Christmas Eve and Christmas day to spew your irrelevant cr*p.

            Tell us again how wonderful your life is Tiny Sociopath? We keep forgetting.

            You may now return to trying to sound as much like me as you possibly can.

  • mickey_moussaoui

    Be good everyone. He’s keeping a list and checking it twice

    • Neiman

      1. He sees us when we are sleeping – he has hidden cameras in our bedrooms?
      2. He knows when we’re awake – he is stalking us during the daytime?
      3. He knows when we’ve been bad or good, is that a result of bedroom peeping?
      4. He likes little kids to sit on his lap, which makes him jolly.
      5. He is a misogynist, he calls women double Ho’s.
      6. He breaks into our houses at nights (burglary?), at least forced entry.
      7. What else is he doing in our houses late at night, anyone count the silverware.
      8. He hates kids, he doesn’t approve of crying.
      9. What standard does he use for bad or good, would we agree.

      This fellow has serious problems and if liberals find out what he’s doing, the will have him arrested, get him counseling, foods stamps, welfare and appoint him to another one of Obama’s Vice Presidents (Czars).

  • Lynn Bergman

    Disciples of the Galilean rabbi, Christos Yeshua of Nazareth, the “Teacher”, saw how he loved Miriam of Magdala (Mary Magdalene) and asked “Why do you love her more than you love us?” The Savior answered “How can it be that I do not love you as much as I love her?” The Mashiah (Hebrew for Messiah) did not reject, but instead loved and welcomed women, sinners and the weak…a divine love that did not exclude even one’s enemies.

    • Joseph

      Yeh…arguing religion on an atheists blog while he is wishing everyone a “Merry Christmas”. There HAS to be better things to do….

      • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

        Hey, this atheist likes Christmas.

        Time with friends and family. A spirit of charity and giving. Count me in.

        • Joseph

          I am SURE you are just as excited about the easter bunny.

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            No, that’s not as fun. :-)

        • banjo kid

          Merry Christmas and a happy new year . I will pray that salvation will present to you a chance .

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Because you get free stuff…..just like blogging everyday for a living. Merry Christmas.

    • Neiman

      From the false Gospel of Mary Magdalene, it was not included in the Canon and is heretical. Anyone believing this is an atheist and of the spirit of anti-Christ.

    • banjo kid

      I stand with my Savior and wish that none perish not one . I don’t pretend to be perfect I have many flaws but I desire that none be lost . I ask that all seek salvation . Pray for our enemies that they may come to Christ.

  • silverstreak

    A very Merry Christmas to you Rob,your family and everyone else here.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Thanks!

  • Neiman

    A ‘dad’ is tenth most popular Christmas list request for children.

  • Neiman
  • $8194357

    More of the same facist DC soviet central power grabbing from the CPUSA
    dream team in DC…Look at Barrys vaque new directive on his “enemies list”.
    Bannana repuplic the left uses to claim unconstitutional powers.
    Quote:

    On the day before Thanksgiving, Barack Hussein Obama issued a Presidential Memorandum, or an unofficial directive to the heads of departments and agencies under the executive branch. This Presidential Memorandum, the text of which is only 183 words, directs agency and department heads to establish a program “to deter, detect, and mitigate actions by employees who may represent a threat to nationalsecurity.”

    Much like all of Obama’s other directives, Executive Orders and findings, there is a disturbing level of ambiguity contained within this memorandum. One could correctly state that the obvious intent of this directive is to stop government employees from leakingclassified information that would endanger the safety and security of our nation. While true, there appears to be a deliberate lack of specificity concerning the exact elements that constitute such an “insider threat.”

    There is, however, a more important aspect to this memorandum that will be undoubtedly missed by many who report on it. It is reflected by a word that appears toward the end of the directive and should be considered the “key” to understanding the intent and action of Barack Hussein Obama. The word is “centrally,” and when it is considered in the context of Obama’s agenda we’ve seen being implemented over the last four years, it is chilling.

    The key to understanding this memorandum is to understand that we are witnessing the greatest consolidation of power and control under the Executive branch of the government in recent U.S. history. This consolidation of power makes it possible for a select number of highly political “czars” and appointed officials to observe, control and report on the activities of people within their various departments to the Executive branch. This process creates a closed system of surveillance that cannot be easily penetrated by other branches of our government.

    Accordingly, it becomes a self-policing network that has the ability to silence critics and individuals opposing a particular agenda or activity, even if such dissent is lawful. Taken to its extreme, it gives Barack Hussein Obama the ability to redefine what constitutes a threat to the government, including treason. It’s no longer about the rule of law and one’s allegiance to the United States. It’s now about allegiance to the agenda of the Executive branch, assured by active surveillance of government employees by Obama’s hand-picked appointees.

    This memorandum quietly inserts yet another plank in the framework for absolute control by Barack Hussein Obama. It is he, not laws enacted by congress or the workings of the judicial branch, who will now determine who and what constitutes an “insider threat.” The mechanisms for reporting such threats are now in place, and actual or perceived threats to our government are to be identified and reported on by the very people he appointed to key government positions. It is the very essence of “Big Brother” within the government itself.

    Everyone needs to wake up and understand exactly what’s happening not only in the U.S., but across the world. We are witnessing the consolidation of power that historically precedes a war for absolute control.

    Copyright © Douglas Hagmann

  • http://www.facebook.com/rick.jensen1 Rick Jensen

    Merry Christmas Rob and to all in SAB Land!!! God’s Blessings!

  • slackwarerobert

    a definitive answer to what Jesus would do. He would shoot up the Hobbit movie and a chinese restaurant. I have heard he was black before, but mexican is a new one for me.

Top