Say Anything Blog

When the leaders of Japan were found guilty of multiple and horrific war crimes, one of them was the “water treatment.”

Those who actually did the “water treatment” – the officers who directed torture (B level) and those who carried it out (C level) were guilty of war crimes. Some were executed.

Crime and Punishment

Just have Dick Cheney come out and say if he endorses waterboarding or not.  It’s that simple.  No more beating around the Bush (pun intended).

Water boarding is a war crime?

My goodness but you’re an idiot.

But hey, let’s go ahead and not do what we can to get information out of these terror thugs.  We’ll have more 9/11’s...but at least we won’t have pretended to drown anybody.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Just have Dick Cheney come out and say if he endorses waterboarding or not.  It’s that simple.  No more beating around the Bush (pun intended).

That’s what I think he should do (as I indicated in the post).

The problem is that the media/liberals like Woof the dummy would have a field day with it.

I still don’t get it.  If water boarding is what it takes to keep this country safe (and I think it is as I can’t imagine the Bush administration authorizing it for the fun of it), then why wouldn’t we do it?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I still don’t get it.  If water boarding is what it takes to keep this country safe (and I think it is as I can’t imagine the Bush administration authorizing it for the fun of it), then why wouldn’t we do it?

You are getting back into the constitutionality and international law stuff again.  Not everybody has the same viewpoints of those, so people argue if we are breaking laws and stuff like that.  I agree that waterboarding should be used if we know that attack is imminent, but if you have a prisoner in confinement over 6 months and then decide to use waterboarding, I’m not real comfortable with that.

I agree that waterboarding should be used if we know that attack is imminent, but if you have a prisoner in confinement over 6 months and then decide to use waterboarding, I’m not real comfortable with that.

I don’t see why we’d need to draw such distinctions.  If water boarding gets us useable intelligence, and you’re comfortable with it in some instances, why not use it freely and openly?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

rob, I think Cheney was giving his personal opinion in the matter.  I believe Bush and the White House when they uniqivically say our government doesn’t waterboard anymore, even though I really don’t have much of a problem with that.

The reason that I say that is after six months of detention and interrogations, there probably isn’t any actionable information that the detainee has.  If you are doing it to protect and save American lives, it means that there has to be some actionable information.  If after six months, you have to resort to waterboarding to try and get information, then we need to train our interrogators better in my opinion.

So bak you’re saying to use waterboarding right away?  Good we agree.

I disagree that after 6 months they don’t have any intelligence.  Weren’t the 9/11 murderers planning that for years?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

I think Cheney was pretty clearly expressing support for water boarding.

“You can push all you want. He wasn’t referring to water boarding and would not talk about techniques,”

There is only one truth and only one liar.
Why do you support a liar?

Excuse me, you were saying?

Because Bob with all of your faults you’re kinda funny sometimes.

If nothing else it’s fun to have you around to laugh at.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Bush has said that Jesus is his favorite philosopher, so here’s just one question: Whom would Jesus torture?

Waterboarding isn’t torture, get it?

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

It would be so much easier on everyone if those on the Left, those afflicted with near terminal BDS, could make up their collectivist minds about what they want.  First they excoriate the President for being too religious, too devout a Christian who “allows” his faith to dictate his temporal decisions.  Then we’re told that he is to be criticized for not living up to the tenets of his faith (as if anyone on the Left actually took the time to learn just what the man’s faith entails or what part that faith actually plays in his life.)

It must be terribly confusing to try and be a leftist.  Perhaps it really is congenital instead.

So waterboarding is not torture? I must say I don’t get it. What about subjecting people to fears like dogs by exposing them to dogs? Is that also not torture? What about making people stand on boxes while wearing wires that may electrocute them if they fall off the box? Is that also not torture? Is humiliating people by forcing them to strip naked while some woman goes around giving their genitals the thumbs up or the thumbs down? Is that also not torture? What about using a sledgehammer to smash people’s feet? Is that also not torture? Do you also think that what the North Koreans did to John McCain was not torture? Do you think that stretching someone on a rack until the person either dies from being torn apart or tells you what you want to hear is not torture so long as it’s being done to “obtain information”?

None of the things you mention are torture.  If it doesn’t involve infliction of extreme pain and/or physical damage, it isn’t torture.  Understand?  Torture isn’t just something that you may find unpleasant or embarrassing. Are you really that much of a wimp?

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

McCain was really tortured, and not by us, if you will notice.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

The reason we criticize him for talking about his religion so much in public and supporting faith-based initiatives is because there’s supposed to be a wall between church and state. However, if he’s going to say that he’s Christian, he may as well be consistent and follow ALL of the tenents of Christianity including not waterboarding people. We’re criticizing him for being hypocritical. He only brings up religion it’s useful for him. It’s like someone saying that we should buy American goods and then going out and buying a Toyota. I don’t have a problem with people buying Toyotas since I drive one. If someone told me to buy a Ford, I would defend my posistion and explain why buying Toyotas is better. However, if that same person then went out and bought a Toyota, I would criticize the person for his purchase because he would be hypocritical.

The reason we criticize him for talking about his religion so much in public and supporting faith-based initiatives is because there’s supposed to be a wall between church and state.

Wrong.  Read the First Amendment, especially the part where it says: “...nor prohibit the free exercise thereof(of religion)” You seek to prohibit our President, and all Christians, from freely exercising their religion, and that is clearly unconstitutional.  Lefties don’t respect the Constitution; we already know that.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

I have indeed noticed that McCain was not tortured by us. That’s why I said that he was tortured BY THE NORTH KOREANS. You also said that torture must involve extreme pain and/or physical damage, but you also said that none of the things I mentioned was torture. So you think getting your feet smashed by a sledgehammer is not torture? Tell you what, tough guy. Let’s see you put up a video of you getting your feet smashed by a sledgehammer if it’s not such a big deal. You also say that McCain was indeed tortured. His torture largely consisted of him being forced to drink his own urine, but, by your logic, that’s not torture. In any event the notion that there must be physical pain present for something to be torture is false. As Wikipedia has pointed out, “The word torture is commonly used to mean the infliction of pain to break the will of the victim or victims. Any act by which severe pain, whether physical or PSYCHOLOGICAL [emphasis mine], is intentionally inflicted on a person as a means of intimidation, deterrence, revenge, punishment, sadism, INFORMATION GATHERING [emphasis mine], or to obtain false confessions for propaganda or political purposes may be called torture.” When you’re told that will be put on the rack tomorrow morning, you spend all night in agony worrying about it, and that’s known as psychological torture. John McCain has even gone on record saying that psychological torture is the WORST kind of torture. Oh, but wait. You know more about torture than John McCain does, right?

I have indeed noticed that McCain was not tortured by us. That’s why I said that he was tortured BY THE NORTH KOREANS.

What a fool rhymes with tool.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

You are dead wrong about us wanting to prohibit the president and Christians from exercizing their religion. I realize that Bush has the legal right to mention Christianity in his speeches. I support Christians’ right to express religion and to exercise it. There’s a difference between criticizing and outright prohibiting. We criticize Bush for mentioning religion and saying things like God telling him to invade Iraq because it’s bad form because we’re supposed to have a secular government. That doesn’t mean that our government can’t have religious politicians. It means that they shouldn’t use religion as a policy. It’s one thing for the president to show up at National Prayer Day and pray publicly for God to guide our country. It’s quite another to say that he gets all his orders from God and to use tax money to fund faith-based initiatives. While the Constitution does indeed not make the former illegal, it’s still bad form because it shows disrespect for the wall that’s supposed to be between Church and State.

I didn’t say everything done to McCain was torture, only that he was really tortured.  You made the rest up all by yourself.  Having your feet smashed by a sledgehammer is obviously torture; are you claiming that we did that to anyone?  Sounds like something you saw in a movie, like Payback with Mel Gibson.  Because waterboarding only causes discomfort, with no actual physical damage, and the fact that it stops as soon as the subject decides to talk, it is not torture, like I said before.  Humiliation and frightening isn’t torture either, even though it might offend your tender sensibilities.  Doesn’t what the terrorist do offend you even more?  If not, you are one sick puppy.  If by causing the terrorists some discomfort prevents their savagery from being inflicted on others, it is well worth it.  After all, it is their choice to do that stuff in the first place.  Or do you think they are “helpless victims”?

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Alex: During his entire Administration, you lefties have done everything in your power to prevent him from doing what the majority of Americans elected him to do. Among those things you have obstructed is his free exercise of his religion, but worse than that, you are actively trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion by every Christian in this country, and there are a lot of us.  We don’t like what you have been doing, so expect to have a lot less power here unless you mend your ways and come back to the founding principles of America.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

You are dead wrong

Coming from you that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all night.

ROTFLMAO

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

We most certainly have smashed people’s feet with sledgehammers. I learned that from a Time or Newsweek article when this torture scandal came to the forefront quite a while ago. OK, so you didn’t say everything done to McCain was torture, but you still contradicted yourself when I mentioned feet smashing, and you said that NOTHING that I mentioned was torture. And, The Whistler, are you on drugs? What you said didn’t even make sense. Rob seemed to have missed that fact that I said that McCain was tortured by the North Koreans when he told me to notice that he hadn’t been tortured by us, and I pointed out that I had indeed already pointed that out. Then you call ME the fool. Very telling indeed…

Too Effing Funny. 

You need to go back to school for a few more years and actually learn something this time.

LMAO

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

“...disrespect for the wall that’s supposed to be between Church and State.”

This imaginary wall...did your imaginary friends build it? I don’t remember seeing any mention of it in the Constitution…

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I have explained the difference between cricism and prohibition, yet even after you have the difference explained to you, you continue to claim falsely that we “lefties” are trying to prohibit the expression of Christianity. Either you have bad reading comprehension, or you’re a shameless liar who thinks I will be believe the lie if it is told enough times. As for the terrorists, I DO think what they do is worse than what we have done. However, you were trying to defend the administration’s “policy” (i.e. torture); hence my decision to offer a rebuttal to that. We don’t know if the people that got locked up in Abu Graib or Guantanamo Bay are really terrorists because they have not been put on a proper trial, and there hasn’t been proper evidence put forward supporting the notion that they are terrorists. That’s the main reason I’m against it. Another is compassion for other people no matter how horrible they may be. When British troops killed captured American soldiers, George Washington pointed out that the rebels must not respond in kind. He knew that the rebels had to be better than the enemy because responding in kind probably would have eroded their foreign support from places like France. If someone acts like a jerk to you, and you refuse to respond in kind, the jerk ends up looking REALLY bad. However, I suppose you believe in an eye for an eye, so that must be lost on you. Finally, torture is ineffective at getting information. Think about it: If some terrorist has planned to set a bomb off somewhere, and he gets captured and tortured until he tells where the bomb is, do you think he’s going to tell the truth? Of course not! He’s going to say he planted the bomb in some industrial complex when, in reality, he planted it in some apartment complex. Bomb goes off…

Alex you are very misled.  For one thing it’s a liberal lie that John McCain was ever tortured by the North Koreans.

Like I said you need to go back to school and learn some critical thinking.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

The Constitution states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”
Using tax money to fund faith based initiative is respecting not just one establishment of religion but, in fact, many. Hence the wall.

Whistler, are you really a conservative or a libeal who’s parodying one? It’s kind of hard to tell.

Because obviously that is directly analogous with the Church of England, which was the “State Established Religion” of the time.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Alex: We fund the religion of Liberalism all the time; as a matter of fact, we have spent trillions on it.  I agree we should not fund any religious enterprises, including those of the church of liberalism.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

It’s quite another to say that he gets all his orders from God and to use tax money to fund faith-based initiatives.

Alex,

The notion of President Bush “taking orders from God,” as the Left is pleased to report it, came from a Haaretz interview with PA President Mahmoud Abbas, hardly the most authoritative or objective of sources.  Indeed, there have been any number of televised interviews with the President where he has personally disavowed the claim of direct heavenly guidance, including one with Bill O’Reilley and one with George Stephanopoulus, both in the past 3 weeks.

Still, if you are going to insist that the President is being directly guided by the Almighty, I would suggest that the prudent thing would be to listen to what is being said.  Barring that, perhaps you’d be well advised to take up your policy disagreements with Him.