Canadian Doctor: Shortages So Bad North Of The Border Some Towns Hold Lotteries To See A Doctor

Dr. David Gratzer, writing in the Wall Street Journal, also makes a good point about just how dependent the Canadian health care system is on America’s.

Indeed, Canada’s provincial governments themselves rely on American medicine. Between 2006 and 2008, Ontario sent more than 160 patients to New York and Michigan for emergency neurosurgery — described by the Globe and Mail newspaper as “broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain.”
Only half of ER patients are treated in a timely manner by national and international standards, according to a government study. The physician shortage is so severe that some towns hold lotteries, with the winners gaining access to the local doc.

So how about it, America? Do you want to have to win a lottery to see the doctor?
That grim spectacle aside, the point about nationalized health care systems being dependent on America’s health care system is an apt one. I’ve argued for a while now that America is the pressure relief valve for the rest of the world’s health care systems. Canadians who can’t be treated in their national health care system, or who want to opt out of it and pay for their own health care, routinely come to America for care. Catering to Canadians seeking health care is an industry unto itself along America’s northern border.
And the international pharmaceutical market is propped up by the American market. Drug makers wouldn’t be able to afford all the research and development that goes into creating new wonder drugs if they had to rely on what they make by selling their products in markets where the government controls the health care markets and controls drug prices. By charging higher prices in America, they can afford the R&D and the smaller profit margins in places like Canada, Great Britain and Australia.
So if America goes nationalized health care, it won’t just be Americans that suffer but people all over the world too.

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  • http://Array badlands4

    When I go to my neurologists office, there are often more Canadians in there than Americans, and when you just chit chat with them…whew, watch out, not a bunch of happy campers about not being able to get tests to diagnose petty things like brain tumors, manage epilepsy, etc.

    I wonder if I will be able to get access to my neurologist :(

  • ellinas

    Indeed, Canada’s provincial governments themselves rely on American medicine. Between 2006 and 2008, Ontario sent more than 160 patients to New York and Michigan for emergency neurosurgery–described by the Globe and Mail newspaper as “broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain.”
    By Rob on June 9, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Wow! They are indeed flocking our hospitals and doctors.
    Two to three years 160 patients. Impressive.

  • sayanything-4625

    Anecdotes from World Net Daily don’t count.

    I posted from the Canadian Supreme Court idiot. There are none that are so blind that they can’t see.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    Still no hard data or even ONE STUDY showing the hordes coming here for health care.

    The opponents of nationalized care have lots of money to fund such a simple study. How come they haven’t?

    You people have NOTHING as usual.

  • Buzz

    Shortages So Bad North Of The Border Some Towns Hold Lotteries To See A Doctor

    Well, when we go to our new socialist system, and our doctors can’t rape us with procedure costs, the Canadian doctors will probably go home. It’s a win, win.

  • Stewartized

    “Broken necks, burst anuerysms and other types of bleeding in and around the brain.” So, for such relatively normal procedures ( for an emergency ward), they must go to the U.S.? Thanks for making our point. You say 160 like it`s a small number. If the care is so good, it should be 0. “Canada`s provincial governments themselves rely on American medicine.” Well, if it`s government run health care, why is the government sending people south? Must know something. And the 160 figure, from your post, sounds like i`ts the number of people the Government sent. No mention of private citizens, which are probobly in the thousands. But again, thanks for making our point.

  • conundrum

    One of the problems is that there aren’t enough Doctors, especially specialists to deal with a possible influx of people who hadn’t thought about certain procedures because of the costs, even with insurance. If everything is ‘free’ the health care system will be overwhelmed. Take the example of a colonoscopy . There are only so many specialists that can do this and only so many facilities. If the amount of people going for a treatment doubles or trebles because it is free the health care system would grind to a stop. It could be a crisis of logistics more then money.
    I believe robert108 wrote that the AMA controls the amount of physicians. AMA controls the amount of residencies available. Less residencies less Drs.. Also alot of the hospitals and clinics that offer residencies are compensated by trusts, donors and the gov’t.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    So what you’re saying is that it’s not so bad until you pay for it or get sick and have to use it.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    I’ve cited at least one study showing the fallacy behind the assertions of Canadians desperately seeking medical care here. So far, the people with the money to fund competing studies or collect data supporting their horror stories have done nothing.
    You stems think there’s a reason for that?

    And as I pointed out, none of these people coming over for surgery would be on an outpatient basis. The study was either done with extremely poor methodology or was a deliberate lie.

    Wow! They are indeed flocking our hospitals and doctors.
    Two to three years 160 patients. Impressive.

    One city, for a very specific problem…160 is pretty big numbers.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    People are dying to escape communized medicine.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    One would think that there would be some HARD data on the Canadians dying without health care or perhaps a study on the Canadians flocking to our system. As of yet all I’ve seen is propaganda and anecdotes from agenda-driven hacks.

    Surely you people can do better than that?

    I’ve cited at least one study showing the fallacy behind the assertions of Canadians desperately seeking medical care here. So far, the people with the money to fund competing studies or collect data supporting their horror stories have done nothing.

    You stems think there’s a reason for that?

  • Jackass Jimmy

    Dino, your propoganda isn’t any more substantiated than what you claim to be others’ propoganda.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html

    Now I’m sure this article won’t be acceptable to Dino and his cronies since it doesn’t tote their established belief patterns. But history is what it is.

  • andophiroxia

    Jackass Jimmy:

    Nah, Dino is just an ideologue. All he does is spew hateful crap. It’s just the same freaking thing over and over again.

    “You guys suck and deserve to be miserable/die.”

    Over and over and over again. He says nothing new and never digests anything but only to be offensive and irritating. He’s just a troll. Although he does seem to pull some fantastical numbers out of his ass. I have yet to see any sort historical backup from him regarding the “past 30 years of conservative control”. He often alternates 30 with 50 or any other number that seems to coordinate with his anal warts that are flaring up that day.

    Crude yes, but that does describe his mood.

  • http://mensnewsdaily.com/ EyeDoc

    The American people has absolutely no idea what a disaster the Canadian and British health care systems are. One of my friends is an ophthalmologist in Montreal. One of the ways they ration care in Quebec is that there’s a yearly allocation of medical supplies and when they’re gone, they’re gone. So, for example, if you need cataract surgery, and the supplies for 2009 have already been used up, there’s no more cataract surgery until 2010 when the new allocation of supplies comes in. Unless you want to see something like that, you folks need to start contacting your representatives and telling them they better vote against the Kennedy-Dodd bill.

  • ellinas

    On my recent trip to Vancouver BC, I noticed older people dying on the streets, people with broken limbs dangling around, an assortment of toothless Canadians,and various others walking with their hands in front of them feeling their way around. Some lucky ones had 4 foot twiggs and were using them like the blind use walking canes in the USA.
    I also witnessnesed a car accident. The ambulance arived two hours later and they only picked up those, that to me looked young. They left behind the senior citizens. When I asked what is going on, I was told the elderly were left to die because they lived to be 60 years old and the younger generation needed the alloted medical care more than they did.
    As for the rest of the people, I was told that due to rationing of the health care they were shit out of luck.

  • Jackass Jimmy

    Of course now we’ll see nothing from Mr. Superior Dino. Guess he should’ve been careful what he wished for.

    So WTF, Rob… do you pay this guy to be the resident whipping boy? Seriously, it’s a challenge for me to find someone I’ve ever encountered that makes it so damned easy.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    Yet more anecdotes with no factual basis.

    You know, I was having tea with Bigfoot the other day and Amelia Earhart was telling us how her sister’s husband’s pet troll was talking to his friend in Montreal and he was telling his sister-in-law about the time he had to wait 18 years for an aspirin in Calgary.

    That alone should convince us that nothing ever need be done with the world’s most expensive yet inefficient health care system. You see, until I personally can’t afford care I will fight any attempt to expand coverage to others. See, I am a selfish stem who only thinks of himself unless of course I am in need in which case I become a rabid socialist.

  • sayanything-4625

    Dino, I’ve shown you time and time again the results you seek. You ignore them. Shocking.

  • sayanything-4625

    Critically ill patients rushed to U.S. for care

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/article661794.ece

    I went looking for statistics to see how the 167 number compared and found some interesting information.

    But nowhere is the problem of accessing neurosurgery more severe in this country than in Ontario. Since April of 2006, 157 people have been sent to Michigan and New York State hospitals for care. That includes the 62 patients sent so far in fiscal 2007-2008, according to David Jensen, spokesman for the Ontario Health Ministry

    Why?

    Despite the urgency of these cases, patients encounter barriers to accessing care at every turn. The problems include: limited access to teleradiology; limited operating-room time; too few intensive-care beds; a short supply of neurosurgically trained intensive-care nurses to staff them, and too few neurosurgeons.

    In some cases, neurosurgeons are available to operate, but with intensive-care beds full, there simply is nowhere to put them afterward.

    Even the method of funding neurosurgical services is an enormous disincentive. Neurosurgery is funded out of fixed, global hospital budgets and is viewed as a financial drain. Orthopedic surgeons, by comparison, are seen as money makers: The more operations they do, the more their hospitals are reimbursed.

    Apparently, neurosurgery is seen as drain on resources, who knew.

    My hospital is 20 minutes from the best neurosurgery in the country — if not the world — and we can’t get to it,” said Dr. Chan, who described the situation as “crazy.”

    Yet they’ve had plenty of warning…

    And yet, governments were warned of a shortage of neurosurgical services five years ago. In August, 2003, a report co-authored by Chris Wallace, head of the division of neurosurgery at Toronto Western Hospital, said that “increasingly, the resources are not available to handle neurosurgical emergencies.”…”It has started to reach capacities that are not tolerable and that’s what has caused the groundswell and the concern,” Dr. Wallace said in an interview. He described the situation of travelling to the U.S. for care as “intolerable for the critically ill.”

    Two more reports on the difficulties of accessing neurosurgical services followed. An October, 2003, report by Charles Wright found there was a significant shortage of neurosurgeons in some centres. Two years later, a report by the Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences said demands were being met by very few surgeons with high workloads, which is not sustainable.

    But hey, what do these guy’s know, their only Doctors in the Canadian Health Care system.

    I suspect Dino, know one is doing studies on how many people are going to the US for treatment because no one will like the answers.

  • sayanything-4625

    You’re right Dino, what does the Supreme Court of Canada know? What does the province of Quebec know, I mean its not like they have a procedure in place to pay for health care done in the United States, is it?

  • sayanything-4625

    Two to three years 160 patients.

    To know how impressive we would have to know the total amount of emergency neurosurgery patients that is, I suspect that its a large amount of their total neurosurgery patients, that’s why they didn’t include a little factoid like its only .0001% of all neurosurgery patients. If its closer to half or more like I suspect then thats a problem, right?

  • e4bannan

    Do they have nationalized funerals as well?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    Dino, I’ve shown you time and time again the results you seek.

    Anecdotes from World Net Daily don’t count.

    You people are going to lose this one soon enough. Oh you’ll fight like you fought every other societal advancement that you and yours now use like pigs.

    If you want to know how to game the system the best and get as much government benefit as possible, ask a conservative. They know all the loopholes and scams. It’s in their blood to screw others, including the government.

  • Jackass Jimmy

    It’s a matter of simple economics, really. Anytime you zero out the cost of something, demand for it becomes infinite. When demand becomes infinite, supply can never keep up as long as the price is fixed so low. And then your market collapses. It’s been proven time and time again. It forms a basis for economic reality.

    In today’s world, when supply cannot keep up with demand, the entitlists expect that the government step in and fix it. And government will do everything it can to give the illusion that it is indeed fixing it as long votes can be bought.

    For socialists and other crackpots, reality doesn’t matter, their fundamentalism does. That’s why they have to have propaganda. Ever notice how Dino just endlessly spouts the same mis-truths over and over while denying and/or ridiculing history, logic, reason, facts and real science while trying to guilt you into believing his spiel is righteous? There’s a reason for that.

    But before any conservatives here go off in a fit of superiority, they need to remember that this can go both ways. There are fundamentalists and extremists to the left and to the right. And they are both equally dangerous.

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