Say Anything Blog

He said he’s okay with people sharing his movie, so long as they aren’t profiting from it.

You have banner ads on this page, therefore each time someone visits this page regardless of whether or not they watch the movie, you are making money.

Expect the letter, clearly you’ve misunderstood Moore’s intent, and in your rush to call him a hypocrite, you’ve simply shown everyone what kind of fool you are.

WTF: this post just proves someone does not know what socialsim is and is a liar. You post a link to a movie you don’t own, but claim you “actually do respect things like copyright laws and property rights”. But you were forced to serve the film cause you think Moore does not “actually do respect things like copyright laws and property rights”. Moore forced you to sell out your “respect”. Yeah, you are showing SOMEONE to be a hypocrite, and it’s not Moore. Nope, it’s you. Moron.

I’m sure Michael Moore doesn’t care. However Bob and Harvey Wienstein and the other producers, who have a financial stake, DO care. Being the financeers they OWN the intellectual property or copyright of the film.

Are the above three posts all made by the same person?  Would be surprised....

I think it’s a great idea.  Moore says he doesn’t mind, so Rob is taking him at his word.  It allows all of use view Moore’s movie as Moore would like.  And if Rob gets a cease-and-desist letter, we’ll know which hole Moore was talking out of when he made that statement…

I think Rob hates me… I mean, just look at the pic he took of me!

He said he’s okay with people sharing his movie, so long as they aren’t profiting from it.

You have banner ads on this page, therefore each time someone visits this page regardless of whether or not they watch the movie, you are making money.

I didn’t hear Moore put any sort of caveats like that on his statement.  Who are you to speak for Mike?

Moore forced you to sell out your “respect”. Yeah, you are showing SOMEONE to be a hypocrite, and it’s not Moore. Nope, it’s you. Moron.

Moore said he was ok with people downloading and sharing the letter, so I’ve downloaded it and now I’m sharing it.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob: You really should put in a warning! About 30-32 minutes into the film, there’s this saccharine valentine to Hillary and Hillary Care! I was eating at the time! I nearly lost it!

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

I saw Sicko over the weekend and am not sure what sacharine valentine you’re talking about Proof. She was taken to task pretty well by Moore during the movie. 

I challenge you all to see Sicko in its entirety then let’s discuss it. Any takers? It opens the end of June.

Puzzle, you can just hit the play button above and watch the whole movie.

I’ve seen it, and there isn’t anything worth discussing.  Unless you’d like to help explain the big, sloppy wet kiss Moore gives communist dictator Fidel Castro.

Do you even care about all the people Castro has murdered, tortured and imprisoned to stay in power or do you liberals forgive that stuff...as long as the state provides health care?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Do you even care about all the people Castro has murdered, tortured and imprisoned to stay in power.

Rob on June 17, 2007 at 09:15 pm

We all care about Castro’s alleged victims.Can you please supply a verifiable number of the murdered and tortured?

Rob:

I didn’t hear Moore put any sort of caveats like that on his statement.

Michael Moore:

“I don’t agree with the copyright laws and I don’t have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it with people as long as they’re not trying to make a profit off my labour. I would oppose that.”

It took me less than 30 seconds to find this quote. Excellent research as usual, Rob.

Rob:

Moore doesn’t care about copyright laws.  Which isn’t surprising, since most socialists don’t care about private property.

Rob doesn’t care about gun control laws. Which (sic) isn’t surprising, since most socialists don’t care about private property.

See what I did? I’ll give you a hint: It’s the exact same thing you did!!!

Please explain how Opposing America’s current copyright laws = Opposing the private ownership of property. If you do, I’ll give you a cookie.

No, make that 10 cookies.

More? 100 cookies for Rob!!! But in order to get them, you have to provide logical reasoning for your insane assertions. So… don’t get your hopes up.

Rob: Is everyone who has ever downloaded a song on Limewire a socialist too?

He also said this about his last movie, Fahrenheit 911. Weren’t you around for that? I know I was. I downloaded it, watched it, waited for the FBI… nothing.

Sorry to hear about you being the last to know. I’m sure you’re happy with your soapbox, though.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/5386.cfm

I love it. Mr. Moore says he has enough money for himself and that his primary goal is now sharing information. This rather mundane fact, professed often by millions of teachers and educators in the United States, now turns into some sort of hate target for a random blogger. This blogger in turn leeches off Mr. Moore’s work for the express purpose of making money through banner advertising on his blog page. It just goes to show that no matter how illegitimate and immoral your model of capitalism may be, you can always justify yourself by calling someone else a big bad “socialist!”

I hate to say it as someone who opposes Michael Moore and is a property rights supporting entrepreneur capitalist who believes you’re correct to post this online as Moore’s says is okay... but only as he says is okay.

Martin, your first commentator:

He said he’s okay with people sharing his movie, so long as they aren’t profiting from it.

You have banner ads on this page…

is exactly right.

You cannot, in good conscience, post his movie while selling advertising. If Moore meant what he saide—admittedly a big if—then only those who post it for the public good without revenue generation can do so.

What you should do is take down your banner ad on your homepage and each post page, archive page etc. that has Moore’s movie.

Otherwise, I believe you are violating his copyright and you cannot use his words as a defense, certainly not after you’ve been warned by more than one commentator.

And I say this as a supporter… I’m not a “seminar” commentator...!

Michael Moore a socialist?  That is funny.  But, I am willing to agree with your assesment, if you can solve my riddle.  Health Insurance CEO, Steve McQuire (Forbes.com) received salary of $124,000,000 in 2005.  He also got a bonus of $1.7 Billion (with a B).  (Keep in mind his income is derived from the premiums of his policy holders.) Now, here it is, how many more claims could have been granted (paid) if McGuire, could figured a way to muddle by on his meager salary, and in turn used the $1.7 Billion bonus, that he gouged from his policy holders to pay claims?  Rob, don’t try this because it requires a little math.  Dave, if Rob gets your question right, tell him I will let him trade one cookie to me for a clue.

He doesn’t care because he doesn’t own it.  He’s saying, “I don’t mind if you steal some other guy’s (the producer’s) property.” How nice of Mr. Moore to give away someone elses property!

I don’t mind if you use Michael Moore’s houses, as long as you don’t profit from it.

See, I’m as generous as he is!

Working backwards:

”How many more claims could have been granted...” How many claims weren’t?  How many claims were underfunded?

”You cannot, in good conscience, post his moving while selling advertising.” The link that you (closet supporter!) rely on traces back to a dead link at the “sundayherald.com”.  A “30 second” google search shows that this quote exists nowhere but in your mind (oops, in the mind of the Moore supporter(s) that doctored it).

”Is everyone who ever downloaded a song from Limewire a socialist...” Claim wasn’t made that downloading was a trait of socialism, but copyright annulment is.  PS - downloading from Limewire is theft.

”Explain how opposing America’s copyright laws = opposing private ownership...” A) STRAW MAN!, B) Copyright: Copyright is the ownership of an intellectual property.  Give me a cookie.  You can keep the other 99, I’m on a diet.

”We all care about Castro’s alleged victims.Can you please supply a verifiable number of the murdered and tortured?” Do you grant more than zero?  Or do you only really care when the exact number more than zero is known?

”But you were forced to serve the film...” Force wasn’t claimed, instead it was a choice made to (yet again) demonstrate the feeble intellect that God granted him.

Good news is though: You really bring up the IQ curve of the Moore camp.  I wish you were on my team!

I think it’s hilarious that you have the movie playing on this page, especially since he addressed the same “Red Scare” fear mongering you did in this entry.

Oh, and you conveniently forgot to mention that his film also glorifies the socialized medicine of France, Great Britain and Canada.

You cannot, in good conscience, post his movie while selling advertising. If Moore meant what he saide—admittedly a big if—then only those who post it for the public good without revenue generation can do so.

Anyone who thinks I’m making money here is fooling themselves.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

i guess you showed him. 
i’m no socialist or communist, but i’m definitely not a feudalist.  nothing wrong with rich folks...it’s the wealthy that concerns me.

Looks like the asshat submitter of this post is p4wn3d by his own readers. Excellent. I hope that the distributor of the movie will sue his sorry ass into oblivion given the fact that te movie is surrounded by advertizements. Rob is the true SiCKO here!

It’s funny how you extreme liberals and extreme conservatives fall in the same habit of not thinking for yourselves… Some of you let Bush or the government and private companies think for you...and others let Moore think in your place.  Thank you both for making people like me really think ....you are all stupid.

“Be the change you wish to see in the world” -Ghandi-

Regardless, though, you’re breaking the law twice over.

Not only are you distributing another’s intellectual property without consent, but you are also gaining from it due to the increased traffic to your website and thus increased exposure to banner ads, which will lead to more clicks. All as a result of being associated with Michael Moore’s new (and yet to be released) documentary. Whether you agree with him or not, what you’re doing is still illegal.

In general, though, I think you’re missing a gargantuan part of bigger picture out of your spite for Moore. The health care, insurance, education and judicial systems in this country are heinously corrupt and unequal. And we have to do something about it.

I have adblock plus turned on but if you do have ads on your site you should really turn them off on this page. Help Moore distribute his message if you want, but don’t profit off of it.

Regardless, though, you’re breaking the law twice over.

Not only are you distributing another’s intellectual property without consent, but you are also gaining from it due to the increased traffic to your website and thus increased exposure to banner ads, which will invariably lead to more clicks for you advertisements.

All as a result of being associated with Michael Moore’s new (and yet to be released) documentary. Whether you agree with him or not, what you’re doing is still illegal. That makes this a crime and that makes you a criminal. Do you have respect for the law?

Personally, I don’t care either way because even though you’re doing this to spite Moore, you’re still pointing in the right direction. I just think you’re missing a gargantuan part of bigger picture out of your spite for him. The health care, insurance, education and judicial systems in this country are heinously corrupt and unequal. And we have to do something about it. Why not join the cause instead of concentrating on the irrelevant?

How many of these contributors stuck to their moral guns and didn’t watch the movie? A quick poll please?

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

The health care ... system(s) in this country are heinously corrupt and unequal. And we have to do something about it.

True, but blanket state acquisition would require massive tax increases (for starters). Perhaps new legislation could be introduced to limit unfair practice (which it obviously is) by the health insurance industry.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

First of all. I watched the movie. Moore wants people to see it so I did. (I also wanted to see it, and I dont give a rats rectum about copyright laws as they are in no thinkable way representative of the interests of We the People. But that is another discussion and irrelevant. Skip to next line.

Second. Would blogger please explain his views on health care. Are you against socialized (universal) health care? If so, why? I hope you have some good wellthoughtout arguments. Also, do you consider the current american health care system to be defective, or is it fine as it is?
If it is fine: Please explain to me what is good about normal americans being sunk into debt for being ill, and corporations profiting immensely on it. Not to mention health care being denied to so many, both those with as well as those wholly without health insurance.

If it is not fine: what would you consider to be a workable and sensible way to correct it?

A “30 second” google search shows that this quote exists nowhere but in your mind (oops, in the mind of the Moore supporter(s) that doctored it).

Perhaps you should have spent 31 seconds and clicked the second google link.
http://www.rustylime.com/show_article.php?id=509
They also provide video of the actual comment coming out of the big bad socialists mouth.
http://www.flirble.org/mirror/Michael_Moore_about_filesharing.avi

Garbage opinions on a garbage website.

Heh, thanks Mr Moore for giving permission for this to be freely distributed, and thanks Rob for freely distributing it. That first scene with Bush making a tool of himself yet again is hilarious! I doubt Moore will ask you to take it down, but the company distributing it probably doesn’t share his views on that particular subject (but I guess you know that and are hoping you can pass off their opinion as his if they ask you to take it down).

Rob doesn’t care about gun control laws. Which (sic) isn’t surprising, since most socialists don’t care about private property.

See what I did? I’ll give you a hint: It’s the exact same thing you did!!!

No, actually Rob’s statement actually made sense, therefore, your nonsense was not the “same thing”.

“Gun Control” OPPOSES ownership of private property (guns), it doesn’t support private ownership of anything.  Therefore, opposing gun control is SUPPORTING private property. 

Please explain how Opposing America’s current copyright laws = Opposing the private ownership of property. If you do, I’ll give you a cookie.

OK, I’ll bite:  A copyright recognizes and protects private ownership of something that the recognized private owner created (known as “intellectual property”.  So, obviously, opposing America’s copyright laws is opposition to private ownership.  This isn’t rocket surgery.

E-mail me for an address to which to send the cookies.

please explain his views on health care. Are you against socialized (universal) health care? If so, why? I hope you have some good well thought out arguments. Also, do you consider the current American health care system to be defective, or is it fine as it is?

I happen to live in the UK, where we have socialised medicine. It has been somewhat bas-tardised (hyphen to avoid unnecessary censorship) by the meddling of successive governments, but remains a popular and key political issue. There is enough support for the National Health Service, that any attempt at it’s removal would be tantamount to political suicide.
I am not against socialised medicine, my point was that the costs to the taxpayer would be high, right across the political spectrum.
And, yes, as I suggested, I do think the current US system is flawed, but (although it wouldn’t [directly] affect me) I am concerned at the financial implications of nationalising the US healthcare industry.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

Hey, Lik and Toot, how many of these comments come from the same IP?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

I liked the part which seemed to suggest that Nixon single handedly forced HMOs on the country. According to Wikipedia: 

The Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973, also known as the HMO Act of 1973, is a law passed by the Congress of the United States

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

You do know that in addition to the take down letter you may end up owing $500,000 or 5 years in prison, right?

You do know that in addition to the take down letter you may end up owing $500,000 or 5 years in prison, right?

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

(He might have to live in his Mom’s basement!)

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

what idiot wrote this?! OK so I don’t agree with Socialism myself but all you’ve done here is prove that you are so enamoured with Capitalism you can’t even understand/believe it when someone doesn’t think exaclty the way you do!! Talk about arrogant, not to mention hypocritical! I have socialist friends & I know that they sincere in their beliefs, it would have been intelligent to say that it is almost impossible to live socialistically in a capitalist world but all this article has said is “I love capitalism, so everyone else musat love capitalism”. Good work there idiot

I realize that it is a most favored aphorism of the Left that the healthcare system in the US is broken, but how exactly is it broken?  What isn’t working as it should?  And how would nationalizing the entire industry fix that which doesn’t work?

I have serious doubts that we are anywhere near the “healthcare crisis” that the proponents of socialized medicine would have us believe, and I have nothing but hopeless contempt for those who think that the solution to anything is to have the federal government in control.  As noted above, federalizing an entire industry, nearly 20% of our country’s GNP, certainly isn’t going to make that industry more efficient, more responsive, more innovative, or any less expensive.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone name a country where the nationalization of any industry, healthcare or any other, has resulted in an improved product or service at a cheaper cost?  Is there a country with a nationalized healthcare system which has produced more medical innovation, more medicines, more effective medical machinery and procedures, or has added more to humanity’s knowledge of medicines and medical research than the US?

Finally, can anyone make a cogent argument that the nationalization of our healthcare industry would be not only effective and efficient, but constitutionally permissible as well?

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

We already have socialized medicine. It’s called Medicare and Medicaid. Not everyone is covered by this, but just imagine if they were, and you had little or no choice in the matter.

Personally, the idea of the health care system in the US being run by the same bureaucrats and pinheads that run the DMV and the Post Office scares me. There is no such thing as “free” health care, income taxes will skyrocket, and the level of quality in care will drop dramatically. If you go a step further—which will happen, it’s all a slippery slope—and remove the profit motive from this industry altogether innovation will slow and eventually stop altogether.

Everybody likes the idea of free health care, but has anybody noticed that the only reason that the socialized systems of Canada and some European countries remains even barely sustainable is because of all the innovations coming out of the US free market system? IF America did not exist and it were solely up to these other nations to support their unsupportable health care schemes, they would not exist—or they would have a market based system.

Joh D.  Your thoughts and words are right on target.  Freedom to choose is tha answer.  I would enjoy debating this subject.  I tried a few days ago.

Communism is evil

I worked in the Saginaw, MI TV market back when Roger and Me came out, and I remember enjoying the movie right up until the moment that I saw one of my professional colleagues faking a live shot for Moore’s cameras. At that point I knew I’d been had; Moore is a skilled propagandist but NOT a documentarian. I wouldn’t pay to watch his movies now, and I wouldn’t even watch the above-linked movie for free, but I STRONGLY agree that we must have more public discussion about the HORRIBLE behavior of private health insurers (and public ones) in this country. So if this piece of propaganda energizes that particular discussion, I will be man enough to give props to Moore for jump-starting it. Remember--the mark of an intelligent person is the ability to hold two contradictory thoughts in balance in one’s mind at the same time. Moore is an insufferable pain in the lower lumbar, but he has set his teeth on an important target and we should seize the moment to demand legislative correctives (but no nationalization for me, please). I just wish this movie had been done by someone other than this polarizing, mediocre man.

RickL.  People in the USA are free to choose any health insurance… or NOT.
No one forces anyone to buy any brand.  For those uneducated, things cost money.  Some policies have high deductables, but are cheaper.  Some include pregnancy but are forced upon everyone.  Some cover AIDS, but many people do not engage in dangerous sexual activities and are not homosexual as well as not IV drug users.  Questions?

Communism is evil

Look, I’m an Australian and thus probably identify with absolutely nothing to do with your situation as we have both free and private health care and I am able to utilise both but seriously I don’t understand the premise behind any of the anti-moore propaganda which seems to be all over the internet. He can’t possibly be brainwashing someone any more than a govenment can brain wash someone. Someone intelligent anyhow. Maybe moore only presented one side to an argument, and if he did then go do the research on the other side, sit down with all the facts and then make a judgement. In a way all your doing by critizing moore is giving people who’ve never seen his films a reason to watch them just to see what your on about. Sikco, to me at least, seems to have been made to show there is cause to sit back and take a look at America’s healthcare system as a whole and see if it really needs fixing. And to that end the film has done it’s job, It’s made people think. Just a short note, there is no reason that differing opinions can’t be traded in a rational and intelligent manor. Arguments such as Proof’s

‘But then, he wouldn’t be able to afford health care! Certainly Michael Moore and his lawyers wouldn’t act like a bunch of greedy insurance companies...would they?’

Are petty and childish at best and only highlight the fact that people aren’t really thinking about the issue.

I love living in Australia, our healthcare fund reimburses us a large percentage of the bills spent on privately sought medical care. Any help provided at the emergency ward is free and given as quickly as possible. Don’t get me wrong, We’re no france but I’m happy. Which just goes to show there is more than one way to solve a problem but as far as I can tell, the way you guys have now, is nowhere close.

Jacob Hayward

Bat: As the film points out, it is the insurance companies that are the (principal) issue. Also that many serious illnesses exclude one from any insurance cover. 50 to 70 million citizens are unable to get proper, basic healthcare and the rest of society could lose their cover, if the insurance company deems it better for profits.
Obviously, their is some reform required, however, I cannot see that nationalisation would work in this day and age. A fair price would have to be paid to the owners - it must be worth trillions!

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

So, boiling it down:
“I’m posting this movie up and when Michael Moore tells me to take it down, I’m going to call him a hypocrite.”

You, sir, are a fucktard.

f u c k tard?

did that work?

Man.  They are free to change companies, pay as they go, become “homeless/helpless” and dial 911.  Things cost money!  Buy insurance instead of the latest clothes, hiphop records, drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, new cars, entertainment!

How did we survive in the 1800s?

My goodness, no HMO to blame!  We took personal responsibility for our health!

Communism is evil

Moore gets away with a lot of things he says because he doesn’t explain the whole situation.  He only uses the facts he finds work for his argument, and ignores the others.

Someone really needs to download that movie and caption it with text explaining all the “half-truths” Moore spreads in his movies.

How did we survive in the 1800s?

You don’t look that old, Chief!

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

Under the current system, Americans pay more per person in taxes for healthcare than the French do for their socialized system:

Health care funding > Public per capita by country:

United States:  $2,051.00 per capita
France:  $1,986.00 per capita

Under the current system, healthcare in America is rated 36 places below the French healthcare system:

The World Health Organization’s ranking
of the world’s health systems:

United States ranking:  37
France ranking:  1

The French live longer, on average, than Americans, and have a lower infant mortality rate.

Discuss.

"That’s why the left is always so eager to seize the wealth of citizens through taxes and redistribute it according to their whims.”

Unlike the conservative Republicans, who over the last seven years have consistently shrunk the size of government, eliminated programs, and balanced the budget while....oh, wait, never mind.

Man.  Thanks.  My point was and is that people should behave like adults.  They should take responsibility for their own lives.  Many, however, are hooked on drugs and remain in their childlike behaviors, blaming everyone else for their problems and having temper tantrums when they don’t get their way.  Some examples are the riots in the 60s and 70s.

Communism is evil

Rob: Is everyone who has ever downloaded a song on Limewire a socialist too?

No.  Just a thief.

MOFOL,

Thanks for your response.  Your argument, reasonable though it seems, rests on a couple of doubtful premises.

First is the notion that those who have no health insurance also have no access to healthcare or medical treatment.  That simply is not the case.  Plenty of people choose not to have health insurance and operate on a “pay-as-you-go” basis.  The idea that all those 50-70 million (???) uninsured have no access to competent healthcare is ridiculous.

Another, more basic premise is that everyone ought to be entitled to the same level of healthcare.  I don’t recall that healthcare is anywhere included in the Bill of Rights, nor do I recall any serious and candid public discussion about adding it to the list.  Perhaps we should have just such a discussion… before we effectively nationalize the entire industry to our everlasting regret.

As for the insurance companies themselves, the basic premise of insurance, any sort of insurance, is spread the risk, and most importantly the cost, among as many people as possible.  Does anyone seriously think that substituting government bureaucracy for private enterprise will improve efficiency, reduce costs, or enhance either the service or the products available in the medical marketplace?  No one worth listening to.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

The French live longer

Life expectancy in France: 78.76 yrs.
Life expectancy in US: 77.12 yrs.

So with SS healthcare we can expect to tack on a whole 1.64 yrs?  WOW.  Where do I sign up?

Oh wait, Cuba is at 76.21.  Shucks.  I wonder if SS health care isn’t the only factor that modifies life expectancy....

and have a lower infant mortality rate.

I love seeing the IMR tossed into these discussions.
What does IMR tell us exactly?  Are we supposed to think: “OMG babuhs are dyins!”

France has a much higher abortion ratio, and a much lower successful births ratio.  Do these kids count?

If Moore is really serious about getting his message out and not about making money then the more people that see this the better.

Thanks for helping to spread the word. It certainly made for interesting viewing. I would hate for Australia or any country in that matter to follow in the path of the US health system (or what is being depicted as the US health system in this documentary?). This is an eye opener for not just a US audience but the entire world.

So with SS healthcare we can expect to tack on a whole 1.64 yrs?  WOW.  Where do I sign up?

Not sure where you’re getting your figures from, but according to the CIA World Factbook the French live an average 2.6 years longer.

Oh wait, Cuba is at 76.21.  Shucks.  I wonder if SS health care isn’t the only factor that modifies life expectancy....

Of course it isn’t, but obviously the standard of living in the US is more comparable to France than it is to a communist country that has suffered under more than four decades of sanctions.

France has a much higher abortion ratio, and a much lower successful births ratio.  Do these kids count?

Nope, as abortion ratios are not indicative of the state of a nation’s healthcare system, whereas the very definition of infant mortality is given as:

“DEFINITION: This entry gives the number of deaths of infants under one year old in a given year per 1,000 live births in the same year; included is the total death rate, and deaths by sex, male and female. This rate is often used as an indicator of the level of health in a country.”

I notice you didn’t address the fact that their health system actually costs them less in taxes, which is the issue I am most interested in myself.

However the cost to government (and therefore the taxpayer) would be exorbitantly high. Buying all the private hospitals would surely stretch the budget and no elected government could justify seizing these assets.
So SB, the lower costs are for an already established system and do not indicate the high costs of setting up a universal healthcare programme. As I have said before, the industry must be worth trillions (in asset property and lost earnings), such a large acquisition would cost you guys big.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

you’re all a bunch of worthless commie dirtbags....

copyright is property ownership you dumbass… how could you even question that?

we don’t know all of the people casto has killed because we haven’t killed him yet and gone through his records… and dug up his backyards

Micheal MoreMoney is a commie traitor… he makes up lies… and if you look at his editing you’ll see it. he’s an idiot and so are the rest of you liberal = commie scumbags

OK, i couldn’t get the sicko movie to work, but i clicked the “A mighty Heart” ad below it and watched the trailer.  Now there is a real film.

WOW, what an AWESOME movie.  I’m so proud of Michael Moore.  He’s (hopefully) going to make a difference.  I’m sure, not if the “bush admin” has anything to say about it.  Thank goodness for Michael Moore...someone who isn’t afraid to tell the truth!!  And also, as i was reading some of these posts....GOOD GRIEF....do these people honestly believe that ONE person made all of the posts that were “pro” MM??  C’mon guys, I can assure you that there are more than one or two MM fans out there...lmfao…

Nope, as abortion ratios are not indicative of the state of a nation’s healthcare system

They certainly are indicative of how one achieves a high IMR. If doctors abort twice as many babies prior to birth—often those with any sign of problems—of course the IMR is going to be lower. That’s practically the case in Cuba, which has one of the highest abortion rates in the hemisphere.

That’s not to mention the fact that you can’t trust any numbers coming out of a communist dictatorship.

I don’t care if we socialize health care, although, it seems like a feasible option, I just don’t understand why health care has to be so expensive that the average American, like me, avoids going to a hospital when sick or injured, until it develops into a serious problem.

Good health care should be the right of everyone.  Healthy people are more productive people, and therefore would benefit business as well.

I think this article is silly, as the the person who wrote it has no objectivity.  If you have a problem with the film, review the film.  Seriously, what kind of child hopes for someone to act like a hypocrite?  Don’t you have better things to do?

How did we survive in the 1800s?....

well, for one...we didn’t live past maybe 45 years of age...hmmmm...i guess the answer would be ..WE DIDN’T VERY WELL, NOW DID WE??

JEZZZ....

Seriously, what kind of child hopes for someone to act like a hypocrite?  Don’t you have better things to do?

I second that…

Arguments such asProof’s ‘But then, he wouldn’t be able to afford health care! Certainly MichaelMoore and his lawyers wouldn’t act like a bunch of greedy insurancecompanies...would they?’

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Well, I hope your wife/familymember comes down with some ailment that requires you to cough up $12,000.00 worth of medical bills, while you bash Mr.Moore on your little blog, and then Mr.Moore can anonymously save your collective asses by sending you a cashier’s check for the full amount, resulting in a new post on your blog to this “Guardian Angel” about how happy you are that your wife can actually now live.

...oh wait that’s another blog!

"Seriously, what kind of child hopes for someone to act like a hypocrite?  Don’t you have better things to do?”

I believe he said he expects him to act like a hypocrite. Hopes and expectations, sadly, being light-years apart for most everyone. Except, ironically, a child.

They certainly are indicative of how one achieves a high IMR. If doctors abort twice as many babies prior to birth—often those with any sign of problems—of course the IMR is going to be lower.

Well, ok, it’s a fair point; in that case can anyone corroborate what Fangbeer said about France having a much higher abortion ratio than the US, because all I can find is this:

Abortions (per capita) by country:

United States:  4.0945 per 1,000 people
France:  2.65644 per 1,000 people

That’s not to mention the fact that you can’t trust any numbers coming out of a communist dictatorship.

Which is one of the reasons we were discussing France instead of a communist dictatorship.

Hey Proof:

Re: “About 30-32 minutes into the film, there’s this saccharine valentine to Hillary and Hillary Care! I was eating at the time! I nearly lost it!”

You’re obviously completely deaf to any kind of irony or nuance...even the not-so-subtle ironies of a satirical sledgehammer like Michael Moore. That entire stretch you refer to is MAKING BITTER FUN of Hillary Clinton’s failed attempt at reforming health care in Clinton’s first term--an effort that both the left and the right acknowledges was totally botched. The movie then proceeds to call Hillary on selling out to the health-care and insurance lobbies. Moore is no fan of Hillary...although obviously for different reasons than you.

You misread the anachronistic, teasingly satirical music Moore used during that stretch of the film as “saccharine.” And if anyone thinks I’m being condescending or pretentious, just watch the scene. Proof hasn’t gotten a clue.

You guys use the word “socialist” the way that ante bellum Southerners used the word “abolitionist.” Anybody who disagrees with you is thrown into the same rather meaningless category. Putting some reasonable limits on intellectual property or organizing a health insurance scheme is somehow equivalent to liquidating private farms or establishing a totalitarian state. Before the Civil War people in South Carolina and Georgia argued in much the same way that the Northern objection to the expansion of slavery not only threatened the rights of slave holders to possess human beings but the rights of any property holder to possess anything. Why next all the women will be held in common!

Well, I guess the approach works for you. Those of you who aren’t too poorly educated to know that the word “socialist” means everything and nothing are too cynical to care about the abuse of language so long as it plays to the cheap seats.

I think when they flashed Hillary’s picture and the music punctuated it with the word ”Sexy”. How would YOU interpret it?
Again...almost...lost...lunch!

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

If this ends up going to court, it’ll be an interesting legal case.

It reminds me of Abbie Hoffman’s “Steal This Book” even though there was actually some useful information in Hoffman’s book.

And you don’t believe there was anything the least bit subliminal in presenting this in this time in the coming election cycle, that “our crusading Hillary tried before and failed, so we need to give her another shot”?

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

There must be some fudged figures in that U.N. “study”.
Here are the comparative income tax and VAT rates for France and the U.S. Note, they don’t include state and local taxes.

Country Corporate Individual VAT
France 33.33% 10%-48.09% 19.6%
U.S.A.  35% 0-35% -

WOW, what an AWESOME movie.  I’m so proud of Michael Moore.  He’s (hopefully) going to make a difference.

Bambi,

You could not possible sound more like a fawning, air-headed, caricature had you tried… a cross between Elmo and Barney Fife in drag.

Thank goodness for Michael Moore...someone who isn’t afraid to tell the truth!!

Perhaps you’d care to explain just what “truth” you’re talking about, and what basis you have for evaluating the veracity of Mr. Moore’s assertions.  Have you a background in healthcare management?  Public policy?  Economics and finance?  Have you visited Cuba recently?  Or any other third world countries?  Or are you normally so exuberant over fat, socialist hypocrites, like Moore?

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

1. Moore doesnt own the copyright, he can not give it away.

2. Even if the movie is pirated, he profits by the sheer publicity of viewers.  Since most of the financial stake at this point is owned by someone else, he might profit MORE by it being viewed for free.  Ie., he is more popular/famous.

3. I’m amazed that Michael Moore and many other people have such faith in the government that they think it is responsible enough to handle my health care decisions for me in a concerned and efficient manner.

From my experience, everything they do is done poorly and at great expense.  Why would this be any different?

And you don’t think that the whole movie in bringing up Hillary’s trademark issue isn’t a gift from fellow traveler Moore?

Dear Hillary:
Happy Valentine’s
Love, Michael

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

socialism

Noun 1.  - a political theory advocating state ownership of industry

Hmm. I don’t see any distinct qualifiers for *all* in the definition. Therefore, if you advocate the state running and funding the medical industry, you are for socialized medicine. Given that the medical industry is a signifcant percentage of the GDP, nationalizing it would move beyond Keynesian theory. Ironically, you bring up slave holders to equivocate those against socialized medicine since those who demand it insists on doctors, nurses, etc. to work for “free”.

The big issue everyone forgets when talking about this film, and most any documentary (an invonvenient truth, etc.) is that the film is public domain. That means, yes it is legally distributed and sold by the weinsteins for profit, but at the same time there is no legal ramifications that can make them require you to take that footage offline. Its much like old books and forgotten music.

Anyways, just thought I’d enlighten you all with a little reality on the majority of documentary films (not all though)

I have two questions that this blog has left me with.

First, what’s the problem with the concept of Socialism?  Denmark is socialist and has the highest standard of living in the world.  That’s right, higher than America.  I think you’re focused on the totalitarianism of the Soviet Union and other Communist countries.  Dictatorial authoritarianism is not necessarily present in a Socialist system.

Second, I bought a sandwich today with my own money and gave half to my girlfriend.  Does that make me a Socialist?

I’m just kidding there i don’t mean to be insulting but it seems that it’s ok that Mr. Moore is willing to allow his fans to watch the movie he wrote and directed for free.

If you’re going to respond to this and maybe answer my question(s) could you please make it civil?  It’s a tad annoying when I respond on blogs like this and get angered conservatives or liberals on the occasion calling me a moonbat or responding in all caps.  Thanks

All of the other industrialized countries have what you lot would call “socialized medicine” though in only a couple of them does the government actually run the hospitals and clinics. In most cases, the system is really single-payer insurance. In any case, there are no systems in which doctors or nurses work for free; and nobody advocates that they should. The Brits, the Canadians, the Germans, and the French are not enslaved by their national health systems. The two main penalties they have to pay are: 1) they don’t spend as much on health care as Americans do and 2) they are healthier and live longer. Socialist horrors indeed! Incidentally, there are plenty of reasons to criticize Castro and his regime, but the Cuban health care system is not one of them. If you judge health care systems by their outcomes, it’s a very good system.

Note to mishu: a dictionary is not an encyclopedia. At best, it is only an authority on usage; and trying to argue from dictionary definitions as if they were axioms in geometry is simply a sign of a poor education. Ask any professional logician.

People have at times used the word “Socialism"to refer to “a political theory advocating state ownership of industry” but most of the socialist parties of Europe haven’t advocated the state ownership of industry for a very long time, in the case of the German SPD, for rather more than a hundred years. I don’t know whether Micheal Moore wants to nationalize any coal mines; but Hilary Clinton certainly doesn’t and neither does any Democrat I’m aware of.

I finally found something in which I agree with Michael Moore. Our medical system has been allowed to evolve via the combination and collusion of the ‘for profit’ hospitals, the tort law industry, the insurance industry, and the Pharmaceuticals. The only thing that will create sanity to this system is government reform, to the point, these greedy inustries are totally taken out of the system. Until 35 years ago, hospitals were non-profit organzations (usually sponsored by churches), not responsible to shareholders that demand the perpetual increase in revenues and profits. The introduction of hospitals for profit (I remember they all stated “your medical expenses will decrease, because of effeciency’ doomed the system to fail. The insanity of tort law system, suing for any and everything, and getting huge often bogus awards, adds 25% to the medical costs. The Pharmaceuticals and their ‘American’ pricing system (including the medicare mess) are nothing more that money grabbing shams. The same is true of the insurance companies. They are responsible to their shareholders to constantly increase profits, margins, and revenues. Given this gallery of greed, how could medical expenses be anything insanly expensive. A sad commentary is that the number one cause of bankrupcy is medical bills. It’s as if or government says “that will teach that moron for getting sick”. Are their any politicians that will stand up to these financial forces and actually rip this system down? Of course it’s doubtful because of the famine of leadership assures the status quo. I ,by the way, am a life long Republican. It’s now apparent that the Republicans care about not their country, citizenry, or anything but raising money from industry.
Bottom line, Moore is right. If you don’t work for a fortune 100 company with great benefits, you may want to set aside a few hundred thousand of your extra dollars to take care of your upcoming health crisis. It’s really such an easy problem to fix, but it takes the one thing we are without, leadership.

The insanity of tort law system, suing for any and everything, and getting huge often bogus awards, adds 25% to the medical costs.

Steve: I agree 100% that tort reform is long overdue, but you have a government comprised almost exclusively of lawyers!
Do you honestly think that any government reform of healthcare is going to focus on the most wasteful part, which is tort reform?
First Lawyer Bill tried to kill any tort reform while he was in office. First Lawyer Hillary would do the same.

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan