California’s “Not a Tax”, Tax

  •  November 7, 2009

What was that line that Whoopi Goldberg used about Roman Polanski? Oh, yeah! It wasn’t rape rape when he drugged and raped a thirteen year old girl!
Well, in California, Whoopi is considered a genius! Listen to what they’re saying about California’s “Not a tax Tax”…

… there is now a 10% increase in the withholding tax rate that will last through 2010. Now this is technically not a tax increase, it just withholds more money from your paycheck while keeping your annual tax amount the same.

Technically not a tax increase? It’s just the involuntary seizing of your assets by the government, which they put in the same account as the rest of their tax revenues, that you can get back if you “overpaid” by filing a…wait for it…tax return.
I will grant you that California is a mismanaged fiscal mess, but withholding taxes as an interest free loan to the state? I mean, more than they already are!
I think the effort is doomed to fail. This economy cannot pull itself up by its own bootstraps. Every dollar that the state takes out of the paychecks of Californians is a dollar that cannot be put to use buying goods (which would generate more tax revenue), or hiring those people who would be paying taxes or invested in instruments that would pay a return (and generate more taxable revenue for the state).
For working poor and lower middle class families, this decrease in disposable income could cause a deepening of debt or at least, put a damper on the upcoming holiday shopping season (the one which many businesses count on to sustain them through the rest of the year) or both.

This new withholding rate increase could have an adverse effect on the already weakened holiday spending, so you can imagine the dismay of some retailers and consumers in the Golden State. However, it will be interesting to see the actual outcomes based on estimated increases for each person individually. For example, someone with a taxable income of $51,000 and no dependents will see about an extra $18 withheld per month. That may not seem like a drastic decrease, but that monthly amount can add up to a big pressure on spending for some, as well as a potential decrease in sales for California businesses over the important holiday season.

I heard on the radio that this was supposed to start on Sunday. Yesterday’s pay stub, however, showed that I am, in part, banker to the state of California. (Call me Mister Moneybags!)
Personally, it’s a minor annoyance. Other than the principle of the thing! (Pun intended.) But taking money out of California’s economy is not the way to stimulate or sustain growth. It is a regressive measure at best, that will, in all likelihood, produce the opposite results of what it was intended to do.
Oh, and a hearty “Bah, Humbag!”, from the Governator of California!
Cross Posted at Proof Positive

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  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Lighten up on you?? You’re the one calling me a tightwad because you asked the question “Where can anyone get a return on $18?” and I told you!
    If you read the entire post, I said: “Personally, it’s a minor annoyance.” Maybe you should lighten up on me?

  • Hanni

    Rob would do well to take notes from elinas……..Rob’s idea of intellectualism is listening to Rush Limbaugh.

  • lock’m'up

    Huih, I thought it was gonna be a story about the kind of thing Republican Governor Tim Plenty did in Minnesota.

    But Increased withholding isn’t a tax increase, just like decreased withholding isn’t a tax decrease.

    I’m not sure I get the point of your post. It seems like you wasted everyone’s time on some made-up meaningless propaganda in your quest to be like Rob.

    You should have just written, “I am worthy, I am worthy!”

  • lock’m'up

    So, the IRS’s lower withholding rates gave you a tax cut in February? Sooper.

    “IR-2009-13, Feb 21, 2009
    WASHINGTON ― The Internal Revenue Service today released new withholding tables that will result in more take-home pay this spring for millions of American workers.”

    Yeah, a tax cut!

    By the way, I did some investigation on trolls, they seem to multiply in October and go away shortly about 3 weeks after an election. Dang trolls.

  • lock’m'up

    I hear ya clucken. But, it is not a tax, and it is not a tax increase.

  • lock’m'up

    Randy-G, it would be un-American to censor the trolls. We just need to ignore them.

    It’s kind of offensive that you want them kicked off, I think you need to review your conservative talking points. It’s those darn libs that want to censor free speech, remember? We’d be shown for the hypocrites that we are if we showed even the slightest willingness to squelch anyone’s ability to voice their opinion, even here on this privately run forum.

  • lock’m'up

    Ouch! It hurts when your hypocrisy and logical inadequacies are exposed. Sorry, but it was for your own good.

    Here’s a hint from the experienced right-wingers. When you are wrong, either don’t bring attention to it, or, yell. Being snotty doesn’t help.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Closed Captioning for the Humor Impaired: No, Whoopi is, in fact, NOT considered a genius. That was sarcasm.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    The trolls ebb and flow for some strange reason. I guess they’re ok because
    they make us look smart.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    right, if they’re in such bad financial shape that they have to force their
    taxpayers to loan them money it’s pretty likely they wont’ have money to pay
    you back.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    My, my! So muchy stupidity, so little time! It’s not “made up propaganda” to inform people about the “spit in the wind” politics of the nearly bankrupt state of California. And effectively reducing the income of every wage earner in the state is no partisan matter. (Who exactly am I propagandizing for or against, lockjaw?)
    Poor Democrats are a little bit poorer today the same as Republicans.

    I don’t know WTF you’re blather on about, lockjaw. This post has nothing to do with Tim Pawlenty or Rob Port, except maybe to the little constipated voices in your head. (Is that who you want locked up?)
    If my post was a “waste of time” then your post is merely a waste of oxygen.

    I’m not sure I get the point of your post.

    Maybe next time you should keep your ignorance to yourself until you do? Just a suggestion!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Forcing you to loan money to the state at no interest IS a tax stupid.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    By not putting that $18 on your credit card. By the end of the year that’s
    a significant amount of high interest you’re paying because the California
    legislature is incompetent.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Where in the hell are you going to invest $18.00 dollars a month and get a return?

    Every single dollar I leave in my interest bearing checking account gets a return. Or I can combine them with dollars for a greater return.

    For people who carry a balance on their credit cards, as many do, they may be paying 18-25% on every extra dollar the state withholds from them. Or if they have to patronize those “check cashing” places, that doesn’t come cheaply!

    As to whether or not it is not a “tax”, on my paystub, the increase came on a line marked “California Regular Income Tax”. (There is no other line for compulsory, involuntary loans to the state!)

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Plus the compound interest.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    What “hypocrisy”, oh, delusional schlock’n'awe? You haven’t pointed any out. Ditto “logical inadequacies”. Is your ADD flaring up again?

    Being snotty doesn’t help.

    lock’m'up’s autobiography in four words!
    If you do ever have a point, please be sure to share it with the rest of us!

  • lock’m'up

    “Obummer”! Oh my gosh. That was great, I actually spit pop through my nose. You da man! So clever.

  • http://www.mysobe.com tessatsobe

    You are right they only withhold, means taken in advance without paying interest and when they overdo it, they will say “Pls. wait”.

  • sayanything-453

    By not putting that $18 on your credit card. By the end of the year that’s
    a significant amount of high interest you’re paying because the California
    legislature is incompetent.

    Never thought the credit card angle. OK.
    18X12=216
    Fair is fair.

  • sayanything-453

    I don’t think I need to be lectured about intellectualism by someone like you.

    If you read carefully, you will find that my comment(s) was/were directed at this:

    Well, in California, Whoopi is considered a genius!

    As I clearly indicated, it adds nothing to the conversation.
    From that point you took it to another level.
    You may, or may not think you need a lecture on intellectualism by me. Be advised though, that you are still a young puppy, with a lot to learn. And with a mind set like yours, your learning curve is quite steep.
    Accept constructive critique and or criticism without taking offense. Learn from others, no matter how you think of them.
    Per my ancestors: “As I grow old, I acquire/gather knowledge along the way to become wise”.
    You still have a long way to go.

    PS: You have my permission, to ask my beloved “uncle” robert180 for a lecture on intellectualism.

  • sayanything-7743

    Like a person deeply in debt and barrowing from one credit card to pay the minimum monthly amount due on another credit card, I believe I figured out how the wizards in Sacramento can generate the cash to pay the tax refunds. After the first of the new year, when we are in a new tax year, the state can impose another additional 5-10% withholding and use the new revenue, along with IOUs, to pay this tax years refund. Simple, right?

  • sayanything-6955

    A interest free loan to a government who may pay you back with a IOU? Ouch!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    It seems like you wasted everyone’s time on some made-up meaningless propaganda in your quest to be like Rob.

    There are worse people to be like. ;-)

  • sayanything-453

    Proof said:

    Every single dollar I leave in my interest bearing checking account gets a return. Or I can combine them with dollars for a greater return.

    And I thought I had the definition of “tightwad” downpacked.
    Boy was I wrong.

  • sayanything-453

    Ha.

    Ellinas is really, really worried about Whoopi’s perception as an intellectual giant.

    Ha?
    Why post an absurdity like that? It adds nothing to the conversation. Just shows intellectual dwarfism.

  • sayanything-7743

    Rush may not be the brightest star in the constellation, but he sure outshines little Barri Obummer. In fact, his intellect is far greater than the sum total intellect of Obummer, Reid and Pelosie.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    But Increased withholding isn’t a tax increase, just like decreased withholding isn’t a tax decrease.

    So the government will be paying out interest on this loan their giving themselves from the public, right?

    Since this totally isn’t a tax increase.

  • sayanything-6955

    I cant find where I said censor or ban you trolls, maybe you could find that for me. Whistler is right though, you do make most here look much smarter.

  • sayanything-6955

    Doing something right here Rob & co. Trolls are multiplying.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    I don’t think I need to be lectured about intellectualism by someone like you.

  • sayanything-453

    Proof said:

    For example, someone with a taxable income of $51,000 and no dependents will see about an extra $18 withheld per month.

    Rob said:

    No, that wasn’t a tax cut, but it’s not the same thing either. Leaving more money in my pocket allows me to do things with it. Like save it, or invest it in some way that gives me returns.

    I say: Where in the hell are you going to invest $18.00 dollars a month and get a return?
    While what the California legislature and the governor is stupid, what you say is downright asinine.

  • sayanything-453

    Well, in California, Whoopi is considered a genius!

    Says who? And why?
    Do you believe everything you hear about comedians?

  • sayanything-453

    And I thought I had the definition of “tightwad” downpacked.
    Boy was I wrong.
    My homeboy Proof has elevated tightwadness to a science.
    Now don’t get me wrong. Proof is correct. I am just amazed by the penny pinching.
    Yet again one can increase their nest egg big time over the years with his method.

  • sayanything-1317

    As Randy points out, California’s not even paying people back what they owe NOW. If they can’t pay the tax refunds with as low as they are now, what is raising them going to do?

    If you’re just going to be paid back in an IOU, it’s definately a tax.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Ha.

    Ellinas is really, really worried about Whoopi’s perception as an
    intellectual giant.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    If you want to be technical, it is a tax increase.

    The tax is the benefit the taxpayers would have by keeping that money in
    their pockets. They’re being denied the opportunity to collect interest,
    make purchases, etc. with that money.

    That’s a tax.

  • sayanything-453

    Closed Captioning for the Humor Impaired: No, Whoopi is, in fact, NOT considered a genius. That was sarcasm.blockquote>

    Sorry I didn’t cue in, homeboy. I thought you were being serious.
    Mea culpa.

    PS: Lighten up on me, will ya?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    No, that wasn’t a tax cut, but it’s not the same thing either. Leaving more money in my pocket allows me to do things with it. Like save it, or invest it in some way that gives me returns.

    When the government take sit and sits on it I can’t do anything with it.

    I’m not sure why you’re ok with that. If the government wants more money let them raise taxes. If they don’t have the political support to do that, let them cut spending.

    Lord knows there’s more than enough fat in just about any given government budget to cut.

  • sayanything-453

    Lighten up on you?? You’re the one calling me a tightwad because you asked the question “Where can anyone get a return on $18?” and I told you!
    If you read the entire post, I said: “Personally, it’s a minor annoyance.” Maybe you should lighten up on me?

    I called you a tightwad in a good natured way. Jokingly.
    Maybe we both need to loosen up.

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