Say Anything Blog

Now if he would just pen those Executive Orders to open drilling in ANWR and in the Gulf we would be making some damned progress.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Good God, the near future looks rough for Bill Clinton.

"we should select our leaders on principle first, electability second.”

A young man whose wisdom far exceeds his years

I think the veto is very unfortunate but quite predictable.

"The nation has been hypnotized by the swaying and the gesturing of the Watusi and the Frug.”
*J. Helms*

Yes. It is very unfortunate that morons in Congress voted to protect terrorists and strip the free world of its ability to wring information out of these animals. You are correct, Mike.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Mike,

Don’t tell me you buy into the if-we-do-it then our-enemies-will-do-it line?

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

Don’t tell me you buy into the if-we-do-it then our-enemies-will-do-it line?

I buy into that we don’t do it because it is wrong.  There is no other reason needed.

L,

I’m sure you mean well, but my question was directed to Mike.

Thank you anyway.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

We torture!  and we decide to continue to torture.

What a proud moment for America.

Our forefathers hang their heads in shame!

Some of our Revolutionary War forefathers were known for cutting the heads off of deserters.

If making a person feel like they’re going to drown can get us actionable intelligence on terrorists (and there is a debate to be had about whether or not it does work I think) why shouldn’t we do it?

Outside of your rather absurd and partisan-based objections?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

We are led by morons....currently

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This administration brings shame on America.
I know it, you know it.  Every single American knows it.  The Right is in shambles because of it.  Millions used to be conservative.  They have not stopped being conservative...the republican party stopped being conservative!  To deny the truth only weakens your own stance.  So much of what you preach on this blog is not true conservatism......you are merely behaving like minions...until the right realizes this you will be marginalized.....and the amazing thing is that you know this is true and refuse to speak the truth.....

Conservatives aren’t “on the right”.  Your ignorance is showing.  Personal freedom and individual independence, along with private property, are not “right-wing” principles.  You repeat leftie lies.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

We are led by morons....currently

You talking Pelosi and Reid here? I agree!

This administration brings shame on America.

Imagine that imagine wasn’t a twit!

A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

I,

I gather you are a big John Lennon fan. Can’t say I ever cared for his music, or for that matter your riveting monologue

Well, imagine this, water boarding ain’t torture.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

I gather you are a big John Lennon fan.

Sally: I really torqued off one of my friends who was a big John Lennon fan, when I changed the words to the song slightly (to illustrate its stupidity!):

Imagine there’s no gravity…

A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Imagine there’s no gravity…

Heh, ho ho.

You’re great! heh he

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

ldS...I’m with lestat on this one. Barbaric acts are barbaric acts no matter who commits them and why and American support for such tactics removes you from the moral high ground on this issue. That may not matter to some but it matters to enough to represent a problem IMO.

"The nation has been hypnotized by the swaying and the gesturing of the Watusi and the Frug.”
*J. Helms*

Mike,

This is one of those problems that come up from time to time in which there are no easy answers.

In all conflicts since the Geneva Convention our POWs have been tortured. I’m not using this as an excuse to torture, just pointing out that we have already taken the moral high ground in not committing the same atrocities which were perpetrated on us.

Water boarding, as I believe Rob pointed out in a blog a few weeks ago, would hardly constitute the same traumatic experiences as amputation and such. The prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are better fed, cleaner and given far more rights than US soldiers ever encountered in other situations.

Many believe that this technique has saved lives. And to not use it when warranted would itself be criminal.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

Well, imagine this, water boarding ain’t torture.

Everybody I have ever heard testify who actually took part in water boarding had no doubt it was torture. 

Last weeks testimony was very enlightening.  I learned that we did not use the Spanish Inquisition style, but instead used the Khmer Rouge style.  That is great company to be put in. 

I will not claim that torture is never warranted.  But it has to be when we are losing the war, when we are fighting for our very existence.  As long as we are in a position of strength it is our obligation not to torture.

I will not claim that torture is never warranted.  But it has to be when we are losing the war, when we are fighting for our very existence.

I think you’ll find your position is at odds with others on the left, Lestat.

That we should wait until we are losing is a bit unsettling. That’s not much of a defensive posture.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

I will not claim that torture is never warranted. But it has to be when we are losing the war, when we are fighting for our very existence.

Typical leftie lunacy, but it does reveal the truth about leftie thinking; they are obsessed with causing the US to lose to its enemies, by any means whatsoever.
If something is so bad as waterboarding(which is definitely not torture), then why is it ever OK by you, Lestat?  You are a hypocrite.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

If something is so bad as waterboarding(which is definitely not torture), then why is it ever OK by you, Lestat?  You are a hypocrite.

It’s the same thing I have tried to explain to you before, but you seem to be too dense to understand it.  When you are at “total war” almost anything is doable.  But we are no where near total war at this point.  Most people aren’t effected by this war at all.

I think you’ll find your position is at odds with others on the left, Lestat.

So?

Just because you take your talking points from your masters on the right does not mean that I have to agree with every position on the left.

What you fail to understand that when you are in a position of strength you don’t fight wars for the short term.  You try to gain long term victories.  Torture is so anathema to the civilized world that it does not help to attain long term victories.  Torture is a short term solution.

But we are no where near total war at this point.

Your denial doesn’t make it so.  We are all affected by this war on our way of life by radical Islamic terrorists, even though you refuse to admit it.  Even so, your premise is wrong.  Gathering intel from those who seek to destroy us is the right thing to do.  It’s your construction to demand “total war” as a condition, and then to deny that it exists, thus fulfilling your desire to weaken the US, and produce our defeat.
Nice try, though.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Torture is so anathema to the civilized world that it does not help to attain long term victories.

We’re not dealing with civilized people.  What we do, and what you incorrectly label as “torture” is nothing compared to what they do to their own people, in the name of their religion.  You are an ignorant fool.
A day or so ago, one of them beheaded a 15 month old baby in a supermarket, just to prove a point.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Robert, give me one concrete example of what you have given for this war.  What is your sacrifice?  If we were at total war everybody would have to sacrifice.  I’m betting you can’t give me any examples.

Robert what you fail to understand is that adhering to our moral principles makes us strong, not weak.  You are the pussy, not me.

Just because you take your talking points from your masters on the right does not mean that I have to agree with every position on the left.

I will not take that from you lestat. I made a reasonable comment and you come back with that.

Now calm down and answer my question. Don’t you think that is defensive posturing? Waiting for something worse to happen? Clintonesque?

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

Don’t you think that is defensive posturing? Waiting for something worse to happen?

I’ve already explained it.  Torture is a short term tactic, and highly flawed at that.  In a long term strategic sense torture is detrimental.  It not only hurts are ability to work within the world community, it actually harms the people we ask to do the torture. 

It is a short term gain for a long term failure.

Refusing to fight terrorism isn’t a “moral principle”; that’s just another one of your leftie lies.  You twist words, like a typical leftie.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

If we were at total war everybody would have to
sacrifice. I’m betting you can’t give me any examples.

The defeatist leftie hypocrite tries ad hominem.

If I told you, I’d have to kill you.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

It is not an ad hominem attack to ask you how you have sacrificed for this war.

Robert, how have you sacrificed for this war?

If I told you, I’d have to kill you.

You would actually have to sack up and back up your talk.  I’m not worried.

If making a person feel like they’re going to drown can get us actionable intelligence on terrorists (and there is a debate to be had about whether or not it does work I think) why shouldn’t we do it?

Second, if executing a someone’s entire family Jack Bauer-style can get us actionable intelligence on terrorists, why shouldn’t we do it? If immersing someone in slowly boiling water can get us actionable intelligence on terrorists, why shouldn’t we do it? Or, my personal favorite… if scaphism can get us actionable intelligence on terrorists, why shouldn’t we do it?

Ain’t that sweet?!? leftod toddles through and spews more stupidity. Mommy must have left the computer unattended again.

Mike, I am, as already stated, in total agreement with you. It is very unfortunate that leftarded morons want to surrender to Muslim terrorists, as illustrated by the pathetic mewling of lestupid and unimagined.

And this,"I will not claim that torture is never warranted. But it has to be when we
are losing the war, when we are fighting for our very existence. As long as
we are in a position of strength it is our obligation not to torture.”, is a load of bullshit. A leftard talkingpoint that has zero semantic content.

As for this,"But we are no where near total war at this point.  Most people aren’t effected by this war at all.”, it is a non-argument. By this leftarded crap we are not “at war” unless 80% of the population is in uniform, and everyone is living on 600 calories per day. What a load of horseshit.

As for comparing us to the Khmer Rouge, please to supply proof that Americans are forcing innocent people’s head into buckets filled with water and killing them. Or wrapping plastic sheeting around their heads and killing them. Or using them as slave labor and starving them to death. Proof of any of these charges will do. If no such proof is forth coming, then shut the fuck up. You want to surrender to terrorists? Submit to Fundamentalist Islam and die a slave, then go do so. Flights leave for the ME everyday, pussy. Put your anti-human, anti-American ass on one.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2H9: todd correcting your English is like Stevie Wonder critiquing your watercolors!
And for sheer amusement, todd speaking about “intelligence” of any kind is simply overflowing with irony!

A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Robert, how have you sacrificed for this war?

I don’t consider what I have done for my country to be a “sacrifice” in any way.  I feel privileged to have been able to do what I have done.  The fact that you think what you have done(if anything) is or was a “sacrifice” is very telling.  I think defending our country from those who would destroy our way of life and enslave us as the duty of every citizen, and no sacrifice at all.  Your premise is wrong, as usual.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

I don’t consider what I have done for my country to be a “sacrifice” in any way.

That is because you are so self centered you think sacrifice is a bad thing.  Sacrificing for a cause is a good thing.

But I will rephrase.

Concerning the war on terror, what have you been proud to give for your country?

Concerning the war on terror, what have you been proud to give for your country?

1sac·ri·fice Listen to the pronunciation of 1sacrifice
Pronunciation:
\ˈsa-krə-ˌfīs, also -fəs or -ˌfīz\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin sacrificium, from sacr-, sacer + facere to make — more at do
Date:
13th century

1: an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially : the killing of a victim on an altar
2: something offered in sacrifice
3 a: destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else b: something given up or lost
4: loss
5: sacrifice hit

Wrong again, commie.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Noticed lestupid has never “sacrificed” for America. If it had it would be crowing it to the roof tops.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

And now it will “produce” a list of “sacrifices” it has made. Bet on it.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Noticed lestupid has never “sacrificed” for America. If it had it would be crowing it to the roof tops.

No dumbass.  My whole point is that certain tactics are allowable based on the level of war you are at.  If the country is at “total war” than more severe tactics are warranted because the existence of the country is at stake.  During a limited war these same tactics are not warranted or beneficial.  The fact that neither you, Robert or I have been asked to sacrifice shows that we are disengaged from this war and we are not involved in a total war.

My whole point is that certain tactics are allowable based on the level of war you are at.

Your opinion is not shared by anyone else here.  We defend ourselves against threats to our liberty by whatever means necessary.  Anything less is simply stupid.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

This administration brings shame on America.
I know it, you know it.  Every single American knows it.  The Right is in shambles because of it.  Millions used to be conservative.  They have not stopped being conservative...the republican party stopped being conservative!  To deny the truth only weakens your own stance.  So much of what you preach on this blog is not true conservatism......you are merely behaving like minions...until the right realizes this you will be marginalized.....and the amazing thing is that you know this is true and refuse to speak the truth.....

Yawn, boring.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

The idea that “everybody” sacrifices to some degree in every war is a false one.  Some people sacrifice everything, most sacrifice something, others suffer to no degree at all.  Your categorization of conflict based on some ethereal metric is nothing more than a liberal thought process that centers on feelings and emotion.

I agree with his veto, waterboarding capabilities should be intact at all times.

In less than 5 minutes we have obtained important information from Al-Queda’s #2 man through waterboarding.

Yet, the torturing capacity could be abused.  Gladly, this will incur more pain upon Muslim extremists and sadly this may hurt more innocents.

God bless.

P.S. McCain is against waterboarding.

Well, McCain atleast was against waterboarding.  I have no idea what stance he will take if ever in office.

I think a comment over at LGF summed it up best:

Waterboarding should be kept safe, legal and rare!

A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

This,” My whole point is that certain tactics are allowable based on the level of war you are at.”, is a lie. Spewed by terrorist defending, America hating shitbags like lestupid. sannitized, the racebaitingpovertypimp Democrat spews lies like this, also.

lestupid, your conitnued defense and support of terrorists shows you for what you are. Now blahblah for us some more.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

If I told you, I’d have to kill you.

what a wanker

Does that mean you will have to kill us now, gav?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Lefties=no sense of humor.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Don’t know if it counts for anything, but we have observed in Iraq that our enemy is a learning and flexible enemy, ready to adapt their tactics to our defenses.

Now that the Leftards have made such a show of the fact that we use Waterboarding as an intelligence-gathering icebreaker, I wonder if now that the Immam’s Training School for Boys will now include courses in preparing for and withstanding waterboarding, as the Cuban DGI agents were trained to defeat polygraph examinations?

This is a big reason that intelligence-gathering and investigative methods are deemed sensitive if not outright secrets.  Once the enemy knows of a technique or effort, it can be countered.

Damn terrorist sympathizer traitors Democrats.

...for great justice

r108...I thought it was funny.

"The nation has been hypnotized by the swaying and the gesturing of the Watusi and the Frug.”
*J. Helms*