Say Anything Blog

Want to bet Obama, Pelosi and Reid don’t agree?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

it’s a pretty smart move if you ask me

sending our troops to Georgia is stupid. its not our fight. we got baited into this by the Georgian leader. he actually said, “this is not about georgia, this is about america”

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Yes, this is an excellent way of interposing US ‘tripwire’ troops into the equation under the guise of humanitarian aid.

I just wonder where this will end up.  Many wars have been started by those who misunderestimated the opposition.

Hitler guessed that Russia was a vast, incapacitated giant and that all he had to do was to kick in the door and the rest of the rotting structure would collapse.  Tojo thought the same thing of the weak and ineffectual US of A, as did Saddam vis-a-vis Iran and then the USA again (see April Glaspie) as did Noriega, the Argentinians the English, and so on....

We have long sought avoiding a shooting war with Russia.  But by their actions, they may yet force our hand.

...for great justice

Actually it is our war, and for the following reasons.

An international act of aggression is never done in isolation.

It is a statement to all and sundry.  It telegraphs the intentions and capabilities of the actors.  Moreover, by an opponents failure to act, it signals to everyone worldwide and with particular effect on countries in the region, whether aggression will be tolerated or smacked down.

I seem to recall the words of one great Democrat:

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

JFK understood that international affairs do not unfold in a vacuum.  It is just as true today.  Just as it has been throughout recorded history.

I wonder Sparkie.  Have you ever served your country?

...for great justice

Maybe we should just send bush to go look into his eyes again.

Excuse me, you were saying?

I was reading the comments at Newsweek about “where is the US” and everyone was blaming Bush for the US “not doing anything” because of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.  What a bunch of losers.  Damned if you do, damned if you don’t - BDS gone too far.

In my opinion, Bush is the guy I want in charge right now and I think that this is an excellent way to respond.  While we don’t want a war with Russia, we absolutely cannot afford to have the world see us praising a country for democratic reforms in 2005 then abandoning it in 2008 when it looks like a little effort would be required to maintain the friendship.  Let’s not forget that Georgia has provided the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq.

We should help Georgia rebuild and stage forces there to help keep the region stable - even if part of that role includes ensuring that Georgia doesn’t get overzealous with regard to s. Ossetia & Abkhazia.

We’ve been in Kosovo since the Clinton years and nobody seems to remember that he gutted the military then proceeded to send reserves into Kosovo when we weren’t even at war.  (Kinda reminds me of Pelosi’s policy WRT the SPR.)

Until Reagan, all during the Cold War the Soviet Union could pretty much get by with their military adventures, occupying Eastern Bloc Countries, etcetera; oh the US and Europe would bluster and scream, but no one was willing to sop the Soviets. Bush sending in humanitarian aid is not exactly an act of aggression; but besides the very real need to provide that aid, it is a quiet way for Bush to tell Putin, you’ve gone far enough.

Appeasement, the Obama doctrine does not work, it takes a willingness to stand our ground that makes the difference. Reagan knew that, so does Bush and I think McCain understands that difference too, Obama is surfing and thinking how to appease Putin.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

sending our troops to Georgia is stupid. its not our fight. we got baited into this by the Georgian leader. he actually said, “this is not about georgia, this is about america”

The only thing stupid is your cowardly statement.  You obviously aren’t a student of Russian history.  If you were you would know that we followed your logic after WWII only to see Russian gobble up most of middle Europe.  It should be clesr to even the stupid like you that this is just the first stage of Russias goal to rule over its former states if only by proxie as it installs puppet governments.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

rbb:

Maybe we should just send bush to go look into his eyes again.

Pal, you don’t have the brains God gave a retarded goose, just the goose crap coming out of your mouth.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

I can’t believe it, but I actually agree w/ RBB.  Bush’s “looked in his eyes” statement was utter foolishness, right up there with when Ted Turner said something similar about Castro (or was it Hugo Chavez?).

Sparkie, Saakashvili is no dummy.  He knows good goddam well that our pressing for Georgian inclusion in NATO (as well as other former Soviet republics) would be disastrous for Russia’s standing in the region.  To say that this is about America is not news to anyone - pretty much every occurrence in inter-country affairs has to do with America, since countries either align themselves with the world’s sole superpower or against it.  Putin/Medvedev are quite obviously testing the ties of America’s allies in Europe and in the former Soviet republics who have democratized.

Sparkie, in case you haven’t noticed, the world is taking sides (as they have been for several years).  This invasion by Russia is clarifying (and will continue to clarify) who’s an ally and who’s not.  Saying it’s “not our fight” is ludicrous.  Aligning democracies in Eastern Europe with the rest of NATO is smart policy, and as the pact says, “an attack on one is an attack on all.” This is most certainly “our fight.”

Until Reagan, all during the Cold War the Soviet Union could pretty much get by with their military adventures…

But… but… but, Neiman, Jimmy Carter did boycott the Moscow Olympics!  You mean to tell us that didn’t count for anything?

But his intentions… what about his oh-so-noble (or was it Nobel?) intentions?

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Like I said earlier, I hope there is an aircraft carrier group much closer now, to stand off Georgia for MEDICAL help…

I wonder Sparkie. Have you ever served your country?

Nice attack ‘to the man’. Nothing like making it personal, eh, Zig? I have never been in the armed forces, no. I have never been a cop or a judge, no. That’s why you know that I have absolutely no conflicts of interest. As far as JFK’s comment goes, I agree. Unfortunately the idea that this Georgian leader is in it for democracy is horseshit. Democracy is the ability to self-determine. The area he attempted to gain control over DID NOT WANT TO BE CONTROLLED BY HIM. People who seek to put other people under their thumb against those others wishes are not supporting democracy by any stretch of the imagination.
“Democracy” is now just a fucking buzzword. Y’all have sullied it to mean “someone who does what we want” and that ain’t the proper etymology.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

war was provacated by the United States. Georgia is almost entirely an American product. It’s military has been funded by the U.S.

Prior to the Georgia-Russia conflict, roughly 2,000 U.S., Gergian and other Eastern European countries held training and wargames in Georgia.

Not only is the U.S. financially and militarily backing Georgia, so is Israel. The International Herald Tribune reports that three former Israeli generals serve as Georgian military advisers, as well as supplying them with infantry weapons , electronics for artillery systems, and has helped upgrade their Soviet-designed SU-25 ground attack jets.

Of course, western media will never tell you any of this as this is just as much a information war as anything else.

Democracy is the ability to self-determine. The area he attempted to gain control over DID NOT WANT TO BE CONTROLLED BY HIM. People who seek to put other people under their thumb against those others wishes are not supporting democracy by any stretch of the imagination.

So, Sparkie, was Abe Lincoln an anti-democratic dictator?

If New Mexico tried to secede, and we sent in troops to prevent a Mexican takeover, would you think America was in the wrong for protecting its sovereign territory?

I would be more at ease if it was a mixed assortment of medical aide going in.

I am tired of the “Let America get thier collective asses shot off” then we can go in.

If the people of the world want peace, they should be stepping up to the plate along with America.

If the people of the world want peace, they should be stepping up to the plate along with America.

Sanity: Amen!  I’m especially intrigued by Obama’s original response to the crisis (both sides need to show restraint to avoid all-out war).  I’m not sure where the left gets this notion that the absence of flying bullets means peace.  It’s obviously a necessary condition, but it’s by no means a sufficient one.

sanity.
thanks for the sanity.
other guy

So, Sparkie, was Abe Lincoln an anti-democratic dictator?

If New Mexico tried to secede, and we sent in troops to prevent a Mexican takeover, would you think America was in the wrong for protecting its sovereign territory?

I wholly support the states’ right to secede. If the Fed paid attention to the 10th amendment, that’d be something, but they don’t. The constitution provides us the right to secede when the situation calls for it, and it does. Also, I think Lincoln was right and wrong. I am against slavery, but I support states rights.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

“Democracy” is now just a fucking buzzword. Y’all have sullied it to mean “someone who does what we want” and that ain’t the proper etymology.

Sparkie,

That’s pretty f**king cynical for someone as young as you.  And a bit more inclusive with that “Y’all” shit than might be considered prudent too.  Don’t you agree?

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

US out of New Mexico!

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

That’s pretty f**king cynical for someone as young as you.

Hey, stop bending words around your personal political ambitions and I will be less cynical. The idea that we are supporting democracy by helping this Georgian shoot dissidents is fucking laughable.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

I wonder Sparkie.  Have you ever served your country?

Sparkie: I have never been in the armed forces, no. I have never been a cop or a judge, no. That’s why you know that I have absolutely no conflicts of interest.

It makes a big difference! But, I’ll ask the question differently, have you ever risked your life, your fortune or your sacred, nix that make it personal honor, in a selfless way for anyone or anything greater than yourself? In other words have you in an act of selflessness, ever risked anything for anyone?

Is there anyone or anything more important to you than you?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

The idea that we are supporting democracy by helping this Georgian shoot dissidents is fucking laughable.

When those dissidents are shooting their fellow citizens who elected their own government?  Give me a break.

Lefties talk about emigrating for Canada if Bush, McCain, etc. get elected all the time.  I have no problem with that.  But when they talk about open revolution and violence against fellow citizens if someone is installed in office through democratic processes, that’s not “states’ rights”, it’s treason.  Get a clue, Sparkie.

Hey, stop bending words around your personal political ambitions and I will be less cynical. The idea that we are supporting democracy by helping this Georgian shoot dissidents is fucking laughable.

That is your twisted, liberal opinion. It is worthless! In international politics nothing, I mean nothing is tidy, it is a messy business and it takes courage to do the right thing, not the Leftist expedient, appeasement thing, but the right thing.

Bush, despite your own BDS and the terrible polls and despite my own disagreements with him on some policies, has a record of doing the right thing and saying to hell with the polls or the opinions of the MSM, doing the right thing because it is right. That is a profile in courage pal!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Spark,

It’s a centrally-held belief of mine that a citizen ought to, at some point and in some manner, serve his country.

Some serve by keeping the peace as a domestic cop, others caring for the sick and wounded in hospitals.  Many others serve by picking up a rifle or otherwise wearing the uniform of their country.

Perhaps it’s easy for you to stand by while the Soviets do their own thing all over again.  Safety and Freedom, bought for you through the sacrifices of others, are too sweet for you to contemplate risking while others are being killed.

You opine an awful lot on freedom, and your own concept of justice.

I wonder what you have ever done—on your own part—to earn it for yourself and fellow citizens?

I don’t think playing troll and instigator to a conservative blog counts toward that end.

For those who have fought for it, freedom has a special flavor the protected will never know

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life.

-- Theodore Roosevelt

...for great justice

Neiman
For someone who doesn’t know me or what I do with my life, you are being pretty fucking fresh.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie,

I’m not “bending” anything.  My sole comment (thus far) was about the hopeless ineptitude of that capon, Jimmy Carter.

As for Russia and Georgia, I believe there is an old aphorism, often attributed to Napolean, that fits,

Scratch a Russian… find a Tartar!

Putin is building an empire… an empire centered on oil and gas.  He has effectively neutralized the so-called European community, and will gradually shepherd the former Soviet Republics back under his Russian umbrella if allowed to do so.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Not only is the U.S. financially and militarily backing Georgia, so is Israel…

...Of course, western media will never tell you any of this as this is just as much a(sic) information war as anything else.

We already know that Georgia and Israel are both US allies, both politically and militarily.  What does your comment add to the discussion other than innuendo that this is some sort of plot by the eeevil joooos and a conspiracy by the joooo controlled media?

sonofasillyman
I said nothing about violence or revolution in the case of NM. I was talking about peaceful secession. Nice strawman.
therestofyou
I have served my STATE. I have volunteered at many capacities and I am certified as a firearms specialist by my STATE. When my STATE needs me, I will be ready.
Since I have moved out of my state, I have volunteered teaching young, poor people how to do photography after school. Guess what? I didn’t get paid.
Did you get paid for your service Zig? O selfless one? You too Neiman, spare me the bullshit. You are one of the most self-centered people on this whole blog.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Neiman

For someone who doesn’t know me or what I do with my life, you are being pretty fucking fresh.

By asking questions or is it questions you don’t want to answer for fear of being exposed.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

bat

will gradually shepherd the former Soviet Republics back under his Russian umbrella if allowed to do so

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

I said nothing about violence or revolution in the case of NM. I was talking about peaceful secession. Nice strawman.

Sorry for the confusion, I was going back to Georgia, which most definitely had violent dissidents (which is why both Russia and Georgia had peacekeepers in the region in the first place).

70,000 people! and a few acres.

Oh, and that pesky little oil pipeline that would give Russia a monopoly over oil shipments out of the region....

Oh, and that pesky little oil pipeline that would give Russia a monopoly over oil shipments out of the region…

Well, that’s a bit fucking different than democracy now isn’t it? What rhetorical device are you guys employing here?

Give me a break! Still!

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

A soldier’s pay, or in my case, a Marine’s pay, is a ridiculously small sum to expect in exchange for willingly running toward the sound of guns. 

Here’s a hint: a lot of servicemen don’t serve because of the pay.  They serve in spite of it.  They serve because it is a higher calling (and are usually pissed off when it calls for sweeping, swabbing dusting and painting rocks)

So, is your response then that somehow paying someone a small wage is all the thanks they should expect for risking life and limb for their fellow citizens?

A little defensive are we?

Did I strike a nerve?

A bit too close to that yellow streak that runs through your soul?

A quick glance in the mirror infuriated you perhaps?

Sorry to discomfort you.

My apologies.

...for great justice

Did you get paid for your service Zig? O selfless one? You too Neiman, spare me the bullshit. You are one of the most self-centered people on this whole blog.

Yes Zig, we hit a yellow nerve!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

MZ
You just are being personal. Its tacky and it doesn’t improve the quality of your poor arguments.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Well, that’s a bit fucking different than democracy now isn’t it?

Sparkie,

That statement proves the motives of Russia are more sinister than you suppose, not that America is not concerned about a democracy being threatened. What is wrong with your head that you have to assume the worst of America and the best of the enemies of democracy?

HG
We have heard that its about democracy. That the whole of eurasia is threatened. That Putin just wants the pipeline. Now you are saying because there is some sort of infrastructure on this piece of land that PROVES Putin’s motives are automatically sinister? Give me a fucking break. On Friday night, the leader of Georgia went into that area and started shooting people. Whatever Putin’s motives are, that action by the Georgian was effing stupid because he gave Putin an in. Now we are stepping and fetching at the behest of stupid leaders of podunk Russian states who are invoking Democracy to bail out of a botched attempt to shoot dissidents.

Yup. It’s totally cut and dry. It’s like a fucking Rambo man! A MARINE can solve this!

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Hey Spark.

I apologized.

Did you miss that?

...for great justice

Also. I can be critical of Russia. See here and here, for example.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie,

Explain to us all why Georgia went into “that area”.  Explain to us why Russia opposed Georgia.
Explain to us why Russia bombed the pipeline.
Explain to us why Russia went into Georgia.

You see Spark,

two sides can play the PSYOPS game.  I know you revel in being a shit-stirrer and simply poking Conservatives by writing outrageous things because you really enjoy yanking their chains.

You love being the center of attention, if only being at the center of negative attention.  But your defensive reaction revealed something about the inner you.  There’s a little undercurrent of shame running just below the surface.

Guys, please don’t use this against Sparkie.  Just use your normal insults against the poor guy. Just give him all the attention he needs and he’ll be perfectly happy.

...for great justice

Whatever Putin’s motives are, that action by the Georgian was effing stupid because he gave Putin an in.

So Georgia’s elected leader should not ust the military to establish order and unity that pro-Russian militants were forcefully attemting to thwart simply because Russia might invade?  So much for national soveriegnty.

HG
The whole area was populated by pro-Russian militants and civilians. Did you read about the refugees fleeing? INTO RUSSIA?

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Ok righties, think about this for a second. Say Cuba sent a naval vessel to shell civilians in Puerto Rico, and maybe landed some troops and started destroying villages, you’d all be advocating that Cuba gets pummelled into dust right?

About 90% of South Ossetian civilians have Russian citizenship, so Russia has an obligation to protect them. About a week ago, the Georgian armed forces broke a ceasefire and deliberately targeted South Ossetian civilians, razed their villages, shelled, then invaded, their regional capital, despite Russian peacekeepers being in the region.

Russia has then proceeded to flatten any Georgian military unit it could find.

It’s doesn’t often appear to be a goal of the Russian armed forces to minimise civilian casualties, but this time they actually seem to be trying. So much so that CNN had to pretend that bombed footage of Tskinvali was actually Gori in an attempt to smear the Russians (evil, lying, leftwing MSM).

And so typical of the humanitarian that is Bush, he has only slammed the Russians, not the Georgians. It seems that targeting civilians is ok by Bush.

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

Move_zig

two sides can play the PSYOPS game.

Oh man, Move_zig. You are so right! You’re awesome! You’re the man! THe best! Tell us more about how smart and wonderful you are.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

electnxion- We already know that Georgia and Israel are both US allies, both politically and militarily.  What does your comment add to the discussion other than innuendo that this is some sort of plot by the eeevil joooos and a conspiracy by the joooo controlled media?

Who’s “we?” the American People? Everyone on this blog? Am I to assume everyone is 0 knowledgeable about the current conflict?

Does propaganda exist? Not in the U.S. but only in other countries? Is there such thing as a Memory hole? Does the sun rise in the morning? Why did Condi Rice visit the area prior to the conflict and full U.S. military stocking of the Georgian Armed Forces?

Dogone neocons destroying the world

That’s American to you.  Leftists, on the other hand, are not Americans, but carriers of an imported foreign mental disease.

That being said, the analogy is inapt.

Cuba is a former vassal state of the former Soviet empire.  It has no valid claim to PR.  The Soviets, on the other hand, as I have previously discussed, spent the 70-odd years it had of its past incarnation moving entire peoples and ethnic minorities around the USSR little so much mulch to be picked up, moved, or simply eradicated.

They moved Russians into that region, as they did for so many of the other -stans outside the Russian SSR itself to develop a home-grown Russian cadre in the outlying regions and to dilute the homogeneous nature of those conquered states.

A more apt comparison would be that if Mexican separatists were to attempt to take over (or from their perspective) reclaim California and Texas and the USA were to reassert control over the area THEN (assuming Mexico itself was much larger and more powerful than the USA) attacked Americans who were attacking the Mexican separatists.

Savvy?

...for great justice

Zig, I realise it wasn’t a 100% apt analogy, but the main point is that the use of state violence against civilians under the protection of another far-stronger state is foolish. (Though I guess the Georgian plan was to have an alliance with America to act as a deterrent, or maybe hoping for some back-up, to slap around Russia some?)

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

AV.  What no comparison with the “palestenians”, as Dennis Miller described:

“Other Arabs Who Can’t Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death.”

See it all here.

Is Georgia an independent country just like Bosnia was when Clinton rushed in to “save” them?

Communism is evil

70,000 people! and a few acres.

And the only gas and crude oil pipeline out of the Caspian Sea area not yet controlled by Mother Russia.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Almost.

If you don’t defend the sanctity of your territory, it will be lost.  Whether you speak of adverse possession by say a load of Gypsies squatting on and staking out a claim on your South 40, or Georgia reasserting its control over Ossetia, or England reasserting control over the Falklands.

Actually, an analogy which is apt is also Serbia and Kosovo.  Kosovo has long been part of Serbia, suffered an influx of Muslim Albanians and when Serbia tried to reassert control from the terrorist KLA / UCK, Clinton’s USA smacked them.

That’s not a welcome analogy for us, but that foul deed was committed by a US-based Leftist, William Jefferson Benedict Arnold Clinton.  And I sense, to no small degree, it is coming back to haunt us.

Getting back to the crisis at hand, I wager that Georgia did expect back-up from the USA, but didn’t expect that it would result in a shooting war with Russian.  Even the foggiest crystal ball would have told them that the USA is loathe to get into a direct shooting war with the Soviets.  That’s something we haven’t done since 1919 (the ill-fated Siberian expedition) but instead have fought them through their and many times, our, proxies.

We are coming quickly to a critical decision-gate.  I dare say, it is something akin to our Seven Days in May (Cuban Missile Crisis)

...for great justice

And the only gas and crude oil pipeline out of the Caspian Sea area not yet controlled by Mother Russia.

This is about America!

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Actually, an analogy which is apt is also Serbia and Kosovo.  Kosovo has long been part of Serbia, suffered an influx of Muslim Albanians and when Serbia tried to reassert control from the terrorist KLA / UCK, Clinton’s USA smacked them.

Good analogy Move_Zig. Did you see the Srebrenica video? So, you’re a ‘scorpion’ backer, eh? Those are the orthodox Russians you were just dissing here.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

We are coming quickly to a critical decision-gate.  I dare say, it is something akin to our Seven Days in May (Cuban Missile Crisis)

Any other time in recent history I’d agree, but not right now. Placing our people in Georgia has a good possibility of bringing the “ceasefire” online. Putin & protege have no battle hardened troops, ours are only a few minutes away. A logistical son of a bitch to be sure, but they’re close by. In the event of an incident, Putin & son knows they’ll be writing more condolence letters to families than G.W. will. The only question is, is how stupid is Putin? I doubt he’s that stupid, that’d place him amongst the short bus window lickers along with RBB, spanky arbuckle, e, etc…

"we should select our leaders on principle first, electability second.”

A young man whose wisdom far exceeds his years

Sparkless (Clueless)

Neiman, spare me the bullshit. You are one of the most self-centered people on this whole blog.

I agree, I am not the most selfless person in the world, I have made very few; but I have made some small sacrifices for my country, my community, for people at risk of losing their lives and I played a small role in innumerable people being rescued, either directly or through medcical product improvements. But, just to set my selfish record straight regarding my self-centeredness; this is fyi, for you only, for future reference:

> U.S. Marine Corps - Vietnam, only minor injuries.
> Police Officer immediately after the Corps, injured taking down suspect alone with a butcher knife in his hand as he was coming down a narrow staircase.
> One of the first EMT’s in this country, almost lost my life twice.
> Head of Emergency Rescue Service, kidnapped at gunpoint once; almost killed during a rescue, in a coma for several days, over 150 cuts to my face, a broken bone or two.
> Cobalt Irradiation technician for experiments with Stanford Research Institute, which exposed me to high levels of radiation, the goal being to determine safe levels of cobalt irradiation experimenting on sheep.
> Registered Respiratory Therapist.
> Physician’s Assistant.
> Emergency Medical Research Manager for several large medical corporations, helping invent-improve several life saving devices.
> Now working with Special Needs Children in semi-retirement.
> Gave my son over three years ago.

I am a selfish, egotistical, self-serving bastard! Okay Sparkie? Now where do we go?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Oh man, Move_zig. You are so right! You’re awesome! You’re the man! THe best! Tell us more about how smart and wonderful you are.

He served in the Corps, that is recommendation enough for me! Plus, he quite frequently offers rational, cogent, intelligent and insightful comments on many issues. Not bad!

Whatever Putin’s motives are, that action by the Georgian was effing stupid because he gave Putin an in.

Putin never needed an excuse, he was always a hard line, current KGB officer and he waited until now to reassert Russian dominance on his way to rebuilding the Soviet Union.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Move_Zig: I won’t tell you why, it is not important, but I think we both may have misread Sparkies character and we should stick more to fighting him on the issues in the future, which quite frankly I enjoy, and be less judgmental.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

It was the Georgians that committed the act of war.

If the Russians attack communities that have a presence of US troops it’s basically an act of war.

Think the Georgians are above killing Americans to guarantee American support for the obvious lost campaign of illegal aggression they initiated?

But the Georgian gave him an in.

Stupid.

Piss poor place to build that pipeline.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Think the Georgians are above killing Americans to guarantee American support for the obvious lost campaign of illegal aggression they initiated?

The leader was educated at Harvard back in the day on how to manipulate International Relations… er… I mean ‘Law’. Yea, law.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Zig, I realise it wasn’t a 100% apt analogy, but the main point is that the use of state violence against civilians under the protection of another far-stronger state is foolish. (Though I guess the Georgian plan was to have an alliance with America to act as a deterrent, or maybe hoping for some back-up, to slap around Russia some?)

You said this in another thread too. There have indeed been some Georgian indiscretions, the burning of the village for one. But when I correctly pointed out that hostilities have gone both ways, you quietly let the point drop.

No one denies that South Ossetia shelled Georgian villages as well. But hell, what difference does that make? That those attacks were used as a justification for the initial imvasion apparently is irrelevant. I guess if you’re trying to paint the Ossetians as the victims it doesn’t help that they are accused of, and very may well have, fired first.

Seeing that Georgia seems to have primarily targetted the Ossetian military, and that, even now, Russians have been attacking and occupying villages after a peace agreement, does indeed seem to say the Georgians are the good guys, and the Russians are the bad guys.

And as a preemptive strike, just in case you have the temerity to claim I never answered your questions...I did indeed in a private message sent after the threas was no longer front page.

For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

I have been to Serbia and do have friends there.

Have you?

My guess is that you are taking so-called Western Journalism at face value.  By that measure, the Texas Air National Guard memos would have been taken as true, as would be the fictitious massacre at No Gun Ri, or Tailwind or exploding side-saddle gas tanks and so on and so on.

We have learned that the Leftist MSM has an agenda.  We know that they have covered Clinton’s mistakes, f-ups and treasons, his high crimes and misdemeanors.  The Leftist Izvestia-like coverage over the tragic fighting in the Balkans, which as deep roots and is immersed in blood on all sides, is just as skewed as the widely-publicized propaganda spewed by them before, but this time, largely unchallenged.

For the average American—and by average American I am including journalists and members of Congress, the simplest explanation for their Serbo-phobia is ignorance, pure, unselfconscious, unapologetic ignorance of everything that has ever happened anywhere in the world. Ignorance of the Balkans, ignorance of the Middle East, ignorance even of Western Europe. Americans are very easy to manipulate, because they simply do not know anything about the rest of the world. Since they know no foreign languages, they have no access to what is being said, for example, in France. Americans are generally suspicious of the opinions promoted by the liberal media, but it never enters into their minds to suspect that even the facts purveyed by Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw are as bogus as their opinions.

What mystifies me is how Clinton would side with Muslim terrorists against the lone Christian bulwark against Islamic extremism in Southeastern Europe.

Bin Laden in the Balkans

FROM ‘THE DAILY OKLAHOMAN,’ May 28, 1999

“...As U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe long has predicted, American troops go into Kosovo against the Serbs, they’ll be fighting alongside a terrorist organization known to finance its operations with drug sales - including some to the United States.

“By joining hands with the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), which intelligence sources say bankrolls itself by selling heroin and cocaine, the United States also would become partners of a sort with Osama bin Laden, the international terrorist behind last year’s bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the Washington Times reports. According to the newspaper’s sources, the KLA is linked to an extensive organized crime network headquartered in Albania. In 1998 the State Department listed the KLA as an international terrorist organization that supported itself with drug profits and through loans from known terrorists like bin Laden.

“Such an ally is the result of Bill Clinton choosing sides in a centuries-old civil war. “They were terrorists in 1998 and now, because of politics, they’re freedom fighters,” a top drug official told the Times.

“In Bill Clinton’s war, where bombing has been turned into a humanitarian application, such a paradox fits right in.

and

In 1999, the newspaper, ‘Dani,’ announced that bin Laden had been issued a Special Passport from the Washington-Backed Bosnian Government in 1993. Two weeks ago, the Bosnian government issued a denial. Given that this denial took two years and came immediately after September 11th, we suggest it be taken with a grain of salt.

“BIN LADEN WAS GRANTED BOSNIAN PASSPORT

“Agence France Presse September 24, 1999

“SARAJEVO

“Osama bin Laden, the Saudi billionaire wanted by the United States for organising bloody terrorist attacks, was granted a Bosnian passport in 1993 by the country’s [i.e., Bosnia]embassy in Vienna, an independent weekly reported Friday.

and

Bin Laden, Iran, and the KLA

oh yes, Thanks Nieman.

Semper Fi!

...for great justice

Quick question…

Who is running things, Medveded (the new russian prez) or Putin, who is suppose to no longer be leading?

Move_Zig:  Clinton sent nearly 50,000 US troops to the Balkans, bombed the hell out of our only true ally, Serbia, and did everything he could to placate - kiss the butts - of Kosovite Muslims.

NO ONE in our main-stream media batted an eyelash at this outrageous act.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The times, they are a-changin’...
Bob Dylan

Personally I get the feeling the US is being played a bit here…

The first US air force transport aircraft arrived last night, and the navy was heading to the Black Sea – which is controlled by Russian warships – to deliver humanitarian and medical supplies direct to Georgian ports. “We expect Russia to honour its commitment to let in all forms of humanitarian assistance,” Mr Bush said.

President Saakashvili of Georgia seized on the announcement to say that Tbilisi airport and Poti port would be placed under US military control, a claim the Pentagon swiftly denied.

Is President Saakashvili of Georgia just trying to save his ass, by saying the US will be in charge of these areas so as not to be attacked?

Or are we being played?

My guess is that Putin still runs the entire show.  He picked a sock-puppet successor to lend the aura of Russia being a democracy, but the carefully-appointed successor doesn’t dare so much as fart without Putin’s say-so.

...for great justice

And yes, PP, that is my point exactly.

The odd point about this was that when I went to Belgrade, the Serbs were polite and kind to me, even as we stood in the shadow of the burned-out hulks of buildings American F-117’s took out.  They have been fighting the Muslim invader since the Crusades.  While the Frankish knights had to troop down to Jerusalem to engage the Turkoman or Saracen, the Serbs were in a constant battle with them, and at times under the heavy boot of their occupation, as was Southern Spain.

It was their fighting, forgotten here in the West, that saved Christian civilization from Islamic conquest.

The victory stopped the Ottoman Turkish advance towards Catholic Europe for 70 years, though they made other incursions such as the taking of Otranto in 1480-1481 and the raid of Croatia and Styria in 1493. Belgrade would continue to protect Hungary from Turkish attacks until the fort fell to the Ottomans in 1521.

During the siege, Pope Callixtus III or