Say Anything Blog

What? no picture of the men without their shoes?

What a bunch of hogwash. Cover your head and expose the cleavage? pff..

I wonder if The Islamic Center is related to Grover Norquist’s Islamic Institute?

Cover your head and expose the cleavage?

Trolls. It’s what’s for breakfast!
And then I eat their lunch.

Puzzled:

What? no picture of the men without their shoes?

Your point being?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Just what I wrote:  no picture of the men without their shoes.

And that matters because…

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Don’t you guys just love how modern liberal women will defend Islam’s female-oppressive culture for the sake of political correctness?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I heard these girls made the ham sandwiches for the picnic after the propaganda session.

I pick the one on the left to win the “wet tee shirt” contest after the at the annual “Women’s Day” down at the mosque.

I have no sympathy or respect for people who crater to these nuts until the mullahs stand up and denounce the crimes of their extreme fringe.

Who’s defending what Rob?  You seem to perseverate on the women wearing head covering and don’t say a word about the men removing their shoes. don’t you just love how men want women to take the stand before they do.

I don’t see the removal of footwear as a tradition that’s all that oppressive.

Forcing women to cover themselves, however, is.

But go ahead and don a burka to show your solidarity with and respect for Islamic culture.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I don’t care who wears what or who removes this.

When the muzzie’s foster a religion that wants you to become no more than a robot that will drop pants or panties, squat, poke your head between your legs, and stare at your asshole to divine religious guidance is just wrong.

I don’t see anyone in the picture wearing a burka.  I don’t see wearing a scarf as all that oppressive just as the removal of shoes isn’t all that oppressive.
I agree that forcing women to wear burka is.  But go ahead and keep mischaracterizing my statements.

Would there be so much criticism if it were a Christian centre?

1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

Sorry. From The Bible (KJV)

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

1 Corinthians 11

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

So you don’t think forcing women to cover their heads is oppressive?  I’ll admit that it’s a relatively benign sort of oppression, but the symbolism is real.  That custom has its roots buried in the burka.

Symbolism means things, and when some of our most powerful women submit to a custom that has its roots in the debasement and oppression of women, what does it say about us as a free society?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

puzz, perhaps you could supply pics of either of these women at an official function with their heads covered prior to this. Being non-Muslim they are not required to cover. And doing so in this context denigrates not only them, but their official positions as well. Not to mention they appear entirely out of place, since those scarves are obviously not part of their wardrobe.

Unlike another female in the Bush Admin, who, when at events among Muslims and in hadith, appears the role, by having a shawl that is obviously a part of her wardrobe, and does not look like she has a mouth full of salt with nowhere to spit.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

I Corinthians 11:5 “It may seem strange that Corinthian women should take up this custom in a religous gathering, since Jewish women were not allowed to go into the streets, or into any open and public place, unveiled. It was a Jewish law, that they should go out no where bare headed, it was reckoned scandalous and ignominious to do so. It is said “that uncovering of the head is a reproach” to the daughters of Israel.”

These customs currently followed by Muslim women were founded in ancient times, and practiced even by the Jews of that time. Not only was the head to be covered, both Jewish women and centuries later with the rise of Islam Muslim women are required to follow this practice. It may seem strange and it may seem in direct opposition to the Western Feminist ideals of today, but it was meant for two causes: 1. To protect women from unnecessary, unwanted attention by men driven by sexual lusts. 2. It is a means of teaching that God is our covering and that He protects women as a special creation, as they are the ones that can multiply God’s love though childbirth.

I spoke to a Muslim woman from Afghanistan, now working in a store in this country owned by her Afghanistan husband, about wearing the Burka when she lived in that country and she felt is not a burden nor did it devalue her as a woman. It does seem strange and odd to those in the West, but if the religion requires a woman’s head to be covered and she does not feel it is a burden, who are we to object?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Of course it is oppressive, but should we roundly criticise Islam’s oppression of women, without looking in our own back yard?

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

Of course it is oppressive, but should we roundly criticise Islam’s oppression of women, without looking in our own back yard?

Straw man!

Flamer, I am fairly sure that on your side of the pond, as on ours, women are far from oppressed. Unless they choose to be. Lead a horse to, and all that, what.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

But women attending a church are often required to cover their heads. Even though our societies are egalitarian, our (principle) religion(s) are not. My point is that these religions should face similar criticism.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

The Catholic church in America was criticized when it required head coverings for women...decades ago.

As far as I now, no major American religion does so now.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Perhaps the Church of England has men with rifles to force women to cover their heads, in America, not so much.

On that other hand, I do not willing go bare headed among strangers. I have been charged with, and convicted of, contempt because I refuse to remove my cover. Period. I may choose to do so. I will not be forced. And I will not tolerate anyone else being forced, in either direction. I’m an asshole, it is just how I am.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

I do not dispute that Muslim women are (often) oppressed and that the culture is a patriarchal one that routinely treats women as second class.

Perhaps the ME needs more Ataturks to separate religion from state.

However - from the other side of the fence - Turkey’s First Lady is calling for reform to encourage more women into education (which has got to be the answer).
The women’s liberation movement came about in the West through increased numbers of women becoming educated and questioning their own oppression. Educate more Muslim women and perhaps we’ll see hijab burnings in a generation or so.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.