Say Anything Blog

One note.  The local press keeps bringing up that they used “red paint” on their bodies.  As you can see that’s true, but they’ve been saying it in a way that many people think of it as being analogous to “black face.”

That’s not the case at all.  These pictures show that this is white kids dressing up as Indians, not mocking them.

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The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

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What is that last picture from?  It almost looks like black people in “white-face,” if I can guess from the facial characteristics.

If it is, that’s an AMAZING job with makeup & wig. 

(and what is it with brat--oops frat-- boys and always needing a plastic cup with some vile cheap beer in it at any party?)

Rob,

Do you think that because Native Americans, who we conquered, took their land and then were lied to, repeatedly makes this a situation a tad different from dressing as Romans, who we burrowed much of our society from?

I am not saying that I totally agree these kids should be punished.  But there certainly is a lack of sensitivity here that is in poor taste.  IMHO.

But I know you aren’t happy unless you give your jabs to Native Americans.  So, no I don’t expect you to see a difference.  But I was hoping for a miracle here.

Who is ‘we’, Kemosabe?

Technically, Hannitized, northern european caucasians also took part in the sacking of Rome, so with a somewhat longer historical memory, Italians probably could take offense to a toga party. 

Especially if they drink cheap beer in plastic cups.  How horrible!

For Blackface go to NDS.
South Park

Chef: Don’t do drugs kids. There is a time and place for everything. It’s called college.

FARGO, N.D. — North Dakota State University is investigating complaints about a campus skit in which a white student in blackface portrayed Barack Obama receiving a lap dance.

The same skit, part of a charity fundraiser held at a campus theater, also featured a depiction of cowboys having sex with each other, witnesses told The Forum newspaper, which first reported the backlash Friday.

People who attended it said a pageant contestant from Saddle and Sirloin dressed as a woman from the Internet video “I Got a Crush on Obama” and performed a strip tease for another student, who was wearing dark makeup and an afro wig.

In the background, two male students dressed as cowboys simulated anal sex while holding an Obama sign that one student ripped at the conclusion of the 30-second performance, the Forum reported.

FOX NEWS

Robert, the last picture (per the link in the post) is from a movie called “White Chicks” by the Wayans brothers.

Hannitized:

Do you think that because Native Americans, who we conquered, took their land and then were lied to, repeatedly makes this a situation a tad different from dressing as Romans, who we burrowed much of our society from?

Most of North Dakota is of German and Scandinavian descent.  The various tribes of northern Europe (Goths, Vikings, etc.) conquered Rome multiple times and oppressed the citizens of the Empire.

So, what exactly was your point again?

Maybe everyone just needs to lighten up a little bit.

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The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

According to numerous sources everyone has oppressed everyone else (more or less) in the long brutal history of the world.

Let’s not hold grudges over things that some people did to other people.

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The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

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But I know you aren’t happy unless you give your jabs to Native Americans. (Pointless baldfaced lie.) So, no I don’t expect you to see a difference. (Condescending sarcasm from one with no room to talk.) But I was hoping for a miracle here. (Yeah. Right!)

What an arrogant asshole! (And I don’t mean Rob !)

Let’s dissect the writings of a true asshole:

… makes this a situation a tad different from dressing as Romans, who we burrowed (sic) much of our society from?

Burrowed? Hello? McFly? This isn’t Groundhog Day! You just think you live in a burrow because of the view from your anus!  Sheesh! Are you the stupidest or just the most careless individual to ever grace these pages?
And you have the audacity to constantly rag on Rob, who at least shows some spark of intelligence in his writing! What is your claim to fame, asshat?
I keep hoping for a “miracle”, that someday you will show up here with an actual argument and not merely a mouthful of shit to spit on Rob!

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Those who think the party or the country, will be “taught a lesson” by handing the levers of power over to the liberals will learn a lesson, but it will be at the expense of our country and her liberties. And there are no guarantees that the party or the country will come out stronger, more conservative or better positioned to win elections against the incumbent liberals.

As I said in another comment earlier about this party, this is much ado about nothing. It may shock some North Dakotans who pride themselves on be tolerant and teach respect for all peoples to their children. We don’t have much else happening in the state, so any controversial story is big news. Take it with a grain of salt.

Like I said before, I am pretty sickened by the fact that I obtained my degrees at UND and NDSU.

This just seems to prove my point that most of North Dakota, and North Dakotans are racist shitheads.

What’s next?  A lynching???

Like I said before, I am pretty sickened by the fact that I obtained my degrees at UND and NDSU.

Wow kade! maybe you should have just gotten you GDE and you would have been better off than going to UND and NDSU.

This just seems to prove my point that most of North Dakota, and North Dakotans are racist shitheads.

What’s next?  A lynching???

How closed minded are you kade?  That is the most pathetic excuse for an argument I have ever heard?  Why don’t you try to respond without generalizations and senseless dribble.

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A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.

Like I said before, I am pretty sickened by the fact that I obtained my degrees at UND and NDSU.

No, you said:

I graduated from UND and am embarrassed by my degree.  Thank god I chose to spend my graduate school $ at NDSU.

Of course that was way back four days ago so I can see how your feelings would change.

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The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

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What’s next?  A lynching???

Right.  Because that’s the next logical step after body paint and loin cloths.

This just seems to prove my point that most of North Dakota, and North Dakotans are racist shitheads.

So it’s ok to stereotype North Dakotans, but if I said that most Indians are irresponsible drunks you’d try to get me banished again.

Guess its ok to hate, as long as you hate the right people.

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The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

What’s next?  A lynching???

Right.  Because that’s the next logical step after body paint and loin cloths.

Rob is obviously channeling Reverend Wright here.

Both sides of this argument look like asses and need to stop the beating of this dead horse.

So, what exactly was your point again?

The point is that the Native Americans pretty much got screwed by the Europeans.  Y’all won’t admit it because a) your dihonest b) it hurts your position c) your dishonest d) your dishonest.

The least we can do is stop pretending that dressing up like them isn’t insensitive or stupid.  Any honest person can understand how it “could” be considered offensive....but it shouldn’t be.

That’s the point.  But agian...miracles are rare.

Well, yes, Indians got screwed by the Europeans coming in.  In the same way, the Ojibwe screwed the Lakota and Dakota out of Minnesota, the Aztecs found their neighbors delicious, and so on throughout the western hemisphere.  We should probably make sure we keep memory and ethnic hatreds going so we end up like Yugoslavia or Rwanda, right?

No doubt; this is tacky.  That’s a common theme to virtually ALL fraternity and sorority charitable events.  I fail to see, though, how this implicates the 99% of North Dakotans who have never been part of a fraternity or sorority.

I don’t think you can compare any past warring tribes to what the U.S. did to Native American people.  Todays Native American population is surviving from only .01 or our original population from the days before C.C.  We can thank the belief in Manifest Desitiny and the U.S.’s attempt to annihilate Indian people because we would not just hand over land.  I don’t think the Ojibwe used biological warfare on the Dakota (i.e. smallpox).  Or attempted to exterminate them by wiping out there source of food.  Or put bounties on the scalps of Dakota men, women, and children.  So I do not think it is the same.  Do you still think it is?  Just curious.

Todays Native American population is surviving from only .01 or our original population from the days before C.C.

Got a source for that?  Because I’m not sure that’s true.

Or attempted to exterminate them by wiping out there source of food.  Or put bounties on the scalps of Dakota men, women, and children.

I actually think Indian tribes did do this to one another.

But here’s a question, Chris: What good does dwelling on all this misery from the past do us?  How about we seek equal treatment today instead of constantly trying to correct mistakes from the past we’ll never be able to correct?

How about no special treatment for anyone?  “All men are created equal?” Sounds fair to me.

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The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

If indeed the number of Indians now is 1% or 0.01% of what it was in 1492, we would have to assume that there were 200 million to 20 billion Indians in the United States when Columbus landed--the estimate today is about two million.  I think you need to check your calculations, Chris.  :^) (and learn to provide UNITS as well)

And I don’t think anyone intentionally used biological warfare on the Indian; keep in mind that the great epidemics occurred BEFORE Louis Pasteur discovered the microbe theory of contagion, and the world was slow to catch on to this even after mass vaccinations were attempted in Europe.  So you’re more or less arguing that someone intentionally did something of which he had no understanding--and if your head hurts at that, it should.  It’s a bizaare, unproveable claim.

This doesn’t mitigate or eliminate the horrors of what was done.  However, it seems that those who wish to use this tragedy for their own purposes are being rather selective, or even deceptive, in their claims here.

Dwelling on this does nothing.  I was simply pointing out that the arguement for what Europeans did to Native Americans is very different from what warring tribes did to each other when they fought over land.  No comparison. 
I am with you on the speacial treatment issue.  But there are treaties that the U.S. and Native American tribes agreed on over one hundred years ago that deal with land, healthcare, education, and some others.  As long as the U.S. does not totally ignore these agreements/treaties, then issues that deal with Native Americans are always going to be a little different.  Correcting the past is never going to happen but ignoring these treaties will only make things worse. 

As far as my fact. Historians say the Native American population ranged from 40-90 million people prior to C.C.  In the early 1900 our population was around 250,000. Estimate was based on the 40 million.  So you were right.  My fact was wrong.  It is not 1.0%. It is from 0.62% - 0.27%.

I was simply pointing out that the arguement for what Europeans did to Native Americans is very different from what warring tribes did to each other when they fought over land.

How many tribes were completely wiped out? 

Earlier you said “US” used germ warfare.  I believe that was Europeans as you may have backtracked to in your last post. And as BB states, it was unlikely they understood diseases well enough to know that it was going to be passed.  AND it was probably inevitable that the diseases were going to pass to the populations without resistance anyway.

The important thing is that I don’t identify with the European monarchs nor do I believe in ancestral guilt. Does holding a grudge over generations help anyone?

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The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

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Bubba.  You are 100% correct.  It is selective and deceptive.  So is your argument about the difference of the taking of land from one group to another.  It seems that those who wish to use this argument for their own purposes are being rather selective, or even deceptive, in their claims regarding the justification of Manifest Destiny. 

As far as the smallpox arguement.  When Native Americans were put on reservations there were given rations and other means to survive.  This included blankets infected with small pox.  I cannot prove it was done intentionaly by the government.  Can you prove that it was not intentional?

.01=(1/100).  My bad.

I can prove that only a few doctors in the country knew enough about Pasteur’s theory to understand its applications, so yes, I can all but prove that there was no biological warfare (intentional infection) waged.  Not even the best doctors of the time understood that, as they’d never been exposed to smallpox before, Indians were especially vulnerable.

Sorry, but that’s a tragic accident, not willful genocide.

Call me skeptical about your 40-90 million estimate--one would expect to see far more evidence of habitation than we’ve found.  I suggest that you’re basing your comparison on the population of the entire New World, and then comparing it with the registered Indian population of just the United States at a point when a lot of Indians didn’t bother to register.  I’d believe 10%, but not 1%, let alone 0.27% or whatever.

Bubba,
Cool.  Thanks for clearing that up.