I linked to one. I see you didn’t bother to look at it. House Divided is a good one. You can read about the Star of the West anywhere. You can read newspapers from the time. Besides, ask your self this, what right did the US have to have a Fort in the largest port of a state that no longer belonged to the US? Why is firing on a ship reinforcing that fort an act of war and reinforcing it is not? Why did the US invade Virginia when the only casualties of the “Battle of Fort Sumter” by the US were when a cannon they were firing during the surrender ceremony blew up. The US won and wrote the history. That’s why. If the South would have won, then we would be talking about the duplicity of Lincoln and the US. The even stranger thing is that my family in Alabama at the time were all Pro Union,and lived in Winston County. They were all poor dirt farmers and didn’t want to fight for slavery. In fact Winston County was called the free state of Winston because they wanted to succeed from the state of Alabama after Succession. That’s one of those weird things you don’t hear about very often. My family from Virginia were also pro Union and their part of Virgina did succeed to become West Virgina.

That said, history is often not what we are told in books.

What you know is only worth depositing in a crapper, faggot.

They did. That’s why we are treated with the South started the war. Not the truth that Lincoln broke his treaty with the CSA to withdraw the troops from Charleston harbor and in fact was in the process of re-enforcing the position. That’s why they were fired on. In the next act in the play, he invaded Virginia and Tennessee. No, I didn’t learn that in the our school system I read that on my own. What say you now?

I say that I don’t give a $hit. For one thing the CSA wasn’t another country and could not sign a treaty.

But more importantly is that the CSA had slavery. It was time to stop and it and it took a war. There were no other pertinent issues.

Wow, I’m so impressed by your debating skills. Anytime someone has to lower themselves from attacking the person, and not the idea, their intelligence just radiates from them. Its called a logical fallacy. Of course, I’m not surprised…just amused

I’m just curious where I said he was a liar, of what he was lying about. Realistically, all politicians are liars to some extent, the previous president being one of the biggest in my lifetime. Of course, I have actually read the interim report of the Interagency Ocean Policy Taskforce. But please, show me some reliable source material where Barrack Obama, President of the United States of America, my Commander and Chief, has said that he is going to end recreational fishing. I think he has better things to worry about, like the next time he can go fishing…you have seen his fishing pictures, right?

By the way, the horseshoe crab moratorium was voted upon by the New Jersey STATE legislature and passed unanimously, and then signed into law by their governor. I would think that any responsible fisherman or hunter would already be familiar with the concept of single species or seasonal hunting and fishing quotas and moratoriums…but apparently that is too much to hope for.

If any of you could read, and had the least bit of intellectual curiosity, you would have easily found out that this rumor is completely unfounded.
“Developing a policy for conservation of waterways” means research the impact of COMMERCIAL fishing on ecology.
The only thing this could possibly mean for sport fisherman is that there will be more fish to catch and the US waterways will be around longer for you to enjoy and fish.
It’s amusing how something that’s ultimately good for you can seem so scary when you don’t take the time, or have the intellect, to understand it.

You really have a thing for the South don’t you? This is like the 100 billionth time you’ve said this crap so its not an effective taunt anymore. You should really branch out. Why don’t you try picking on brown haired people of German and English heritage. Its a much wider field for you to draw from. You could make fun of our punctuality and stiff upper lip. You’re “progressive” and have a “superior” intellect, use it for a change. Typing the same old crap over and over isn’t very intellectual!

That would require thought, intelligent interpretation and possibly research, none of which seem to be popular around here.

Allmendinger, David F., Jr. Ruffin: Family and Reform in the Old South. New York, 1990.

Auchampaugh, Philip Gerald. James Buchanan and His Cabinet on the Eve of Secession. Lancaster, Pa., 1926.

Bancroft, Frederic. The Life of William H. Seward. 2 vols. New York, 1900.

Baringer, William E. A House Dividing: Lincoln as President Elect. Springfield, Ill., 1945.

Barney, William L. The Secessionist Impulse: Alabama and Mississippi in 1860. Princeton, N. J., 1974.

Bearss, Edwin C. “The Civil War Operations in and around Pensacola,” Florida Historical Quarterly 36 (1957-1958): 125-65.

_______. “Civil War Operations in and around Pensacola, Part II,” Florida Historical Quarterly 39 (1960-1961): 231-55.

_______. “Civil War Operations in and around Pensacola: Part III,” Florida Historical Quarterly 39 (1961): 330-53.

Blue, Frederick J. Salmon P. Chase: A Life in Politics. Kent, Ohio, 1987.

Bonner, Thomas N. “Horace Greeley and the Secession Movement, 1860-1861,” Mississippi Valley Historical Review 38 (1951): 425-44.

Boritt, Gabor S. “Abraham Lincoln,” in The Presidents: A Reference History, ed. Henry F. Graff. New York, 1984.

Cain, Marvin R. Lincoln’s Attorney General: Edward Bates of Missouri. Columbia, Mo., 1965.

Catton, Bruce. The Coming Fury. Garden City, N. Y., 1961.

Cooper, William J., Jr. Jefferson Davis: American. New York, 2000.

Craven, Avery. Edmund Ruffin, Southerner: A Study in Secession. New York, 1932.

Crawford, Samuel Wylie. The Genesis of the Civil War: The Story of Sumter, 1860-1861. New York, 1887.

Current, Richard N. Lincoln and the First Shot. Philadelphia, 1963.

_______. “The Confederates and the First Shot,” Civil War History 7 (1961): 357-69.

_______. The Lincoln Nobody Knows. New York, 1958.

Davis, William C. Jefferson Davis: The Man and His Hour. New York, 1991.

Detzer, David. Allegiance: Fort Sumter, Charleston, and the Beginning of the Civil War. New York, 2001.

Donald, David Hebert. ‘We Are Lincoln Men’: Abraham Lincoln and His Friends. New York, 2003.

Edmunds, John B. Francis W. Pickens and the Politics of Destruction. Chapel Hill, N. C., 1986.

Elliott, Charles Winslow. Winfield Scott: The Soldier and the Man. New York, 1937.

Gienapp, William E. “James Buchanan,” in The American Presidents: The Office and the Men, ed. Frank N. Magill. 3 vols. Pasadena, Ca., 1986.

Gunderson, Robert G. Old Gentlemen’s Convention: The Washington Peace Conference of 1861. Madison, Wi., 1961.

Hendrick, Burton J. Lincoln’s War Cabinet. Boston, 1946.

Henrickson, Robert. Sumter: The First Day of the Civil War. Chelsea, Mi., 1990.

Hofstadter, Richard. “Abraham Lincoln and the Self-Made Myth,” in The American Political Tradition: And the Men Who Made It. New York, 1948.

Hoogenboom, Ari. “Gustavus Fox and the Relief of Fort Sumter,” Civil War History 9 (1963): 383-98.

Johannsen, Robert W. “Abraham Lincoln,” in The American Presidents: The Office and the Men, ed. Frank N. Magill. 3 vols. Pasadena, Ca., 1986.

Johnson, Allen and Malone, Dumas, eds. Dictionary of American Biography. 20 vols. New York, 1928-1937. Cited as DAB.

Johnson, Ludwell H. “Fort Sumter and Confederate Diplomacy,” Journal of Southern History 26 (1960): 441-77.

Johnson, Robert Underwood and Buel, Clarence Clough, eds. Battles and Leaders of the Civil War. 4 vols. New York, 1884-1888.

Jordan, Philip D. Singin’ Yankees. Minneapolis, 1946.

Klein, Maury. Days of Defiance: Sumter, Secession and the Coming of the Civil War. New York, 1997.

Klein, Philip Shriver. President James Buchanan: A Biography. University Park, Pa., 1962.

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Long, E. B. The Civil War Day by Day: An Almanac,1861-1865. Garden City, N. Y., 1971.

Macartney, Clarence Edward. Lincoln and His Cabinet. New York, 1931.

Mastai, Boleslaw and Mastai, Marie-Louise D’Otrange. The Stars and the Stripes: The American Flag as Art and as History. New York, 1973.

McPherson, James M. Ordeal by Fire: The Civil War and Reconstruction. New York, 1982.

McWhiney, Grady. Braxton Bragg and Confederate Defeat. Vol. 1: Field Command. New York, 1969.

_______. “The Confederacy’s First Shot,” Civil War History 14 (1968): 5-14.

Meredith, Roy. Storm Over Sumter: The Opening Engagement of the Civil War. New York, 1957.

Miers, Earl Schenck, ed. Lincoln Day by Day: A Chronology, 1809-1865. 3 vols. Washington, D. C., 1960.

Miller, Francis Trevelyan, ed. The Photographic History of the Civil War. 10 vols. New York, 1911.

Nevins, Alan. Ordeal of the Union. New York, 1947.

_______. The Emergence of Lincoln. Vol. 2: Prologue to Civil War, 1859-1861. New York, 1950.

_______. The War for the Union. Vol. 1: The Improvised War, 1861-1862. New York, 1959.

Nichols, Roy F. The Disruption of American Democracy. New York, 1948.

Nicolay, John G. and Hay, John. Abraham Lincoln: A History. 10 vols. New York, 1914.

Nicolay, John G. The Outbreak of the Rebellion. New York, 1881.

Niven, John. Gideon Welles: Lincoln’s Secretary of the Navy. New York, 1973.

_______. The Coming of the Civil War: 1837-1861. Arlington Heights, Ill., 1990.

Oates, Stephen B. With Malice Toward None: The Life of Abraham Lincoln. New York, 1977.

Parks, Virginia, et. al. Pensacola in the Civil War. Pensacola, Fla., 1978.

Potter, David M. “Horace Greeley and Peaceable Secession,” in The South and the Sectional Conflict, ed. David M. Potter. Baton Rouge, La., 1968.

_______. Lincoln and His Party in the Secession Crisis. New Haven, Ct., rev. ed. 1962.

_______. The Impending Crisis: 1848-1861. New York, 1976.

Ramsdell, Charles W. “Lincoln and Fort Sumter,” Journal of Southern History 3 (1937): 259-88.

Randall, James G. and Donald, David Herbert. The Civil War and Reconstruction. 2nd ed. revd. Lexington, Ma., 1969.

Randall, James G. Lincoln the President: Springfield to Gettysburg. 2 vols. New York, 1945.

Rhodes, James Ford. A History of the United States: From the Compromise of 1850 to the Final Restoration of Home Rule at the South in 1877. 7 vols. New York, 1892-1906.

Robertson, James Oliver. American Myth, American Reality. New York, 1980.

Roland, Charles P. An American Iliad: The Story of the Civil War. New York, 1991.

Roller, David, C. and Twyman, Robert W., eds. The Encyclopedia of Southern History. Baton Rouge, La., 1979.

Sacks, Howard L. and Sacks, Judith Rose. Way Up North in Dixie: A Black Family’s Claim to the Confederate Anthem. Washington, D.C., 1993.

Sewell, Richard H. A House Divided: Sectionalism and Civil War, 1848-1865. Baltimore, 1988.

Silber, Irwin, ed. Songs America Voted By. Harrisburg, Pa., 1971.

Smith, Elbert B. Francis Preston Blair. New York, 1980.

_______. “James Buchanan,” in The Presidents: A Reference History, ed. Henry F. Graff. New York, 1984.

_______. The Presidency of James Buchanan. Lawrence, Ks., 1975.

Smith, William Earnest. The Francis Preston Blair Family in Politics. 2 vols. New York, 1933.

Stampp, Kenneth M. And the War Came: The North and the Secession Crisis, 1860-61. Baton Rouge, La., 1950.

_______. America in 1857: A Nation on the Brink. New York, 1990.

Stewart, James Brewer. Holy Warriors: The Abolitionists and American Slavery. New York, 1976.

Strode, Hudson. Jefferson Davis: Confederate President. New York, 1959.

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_______. Thurlow Weed: Wizard of the Lobby. Boston, 1947.

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Walther, Eric H. The Fire-Eaters. Baton Rouge, La., 1992.

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Wooster, Ralph. The Secession Conventions of the South. Princeton, 1962.

Here’s a whole raft of books. Have fun reading.

Anything like a ban applied to hunting or fishing would result in widespread civil disobedience and armed insurrection against the government. As if we already don’t have enough reason to be distrustful of our government.

You don’t know shyt about me. You are probably such an imbecile you never heard this insult from the shithead you helped put in the White House.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZWaxjiQyFk

Its patently obvious Obama hates real Americans, just as you do. He thinks real Americans are big city leftists, like you.

I just had to watch a few more of this fine young southern gentleman’s video journals.

It doesn’t get any better than this.

Pretty much. When Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck get their news from ESPN editorials, this is what you get. If I didn’t find it so pathetic, I would be laughing.

You leftists, and you are one, are going to keep pushing with your demands until you force a revolution. If Obama and Pelosi and Reid got EVERYTHING they wanted RIGHT NOW, they would be back tommorow demanding even more. There is no end to the incrementalism that you imbeciles think you can get away with.

Its easy to describe you, dinofag. You are a shriveled up troll with the skinny disease all covered in venereal warts.

You were a Coastie, Will? Jesus, I can’t express my gratitude enough to Coasties. It takes a special kind of bravery to fly a helo in high winds, heavy seas and ice to rescue sailors. Good on ya bud!

Do you possibly mean the horseshoe crab? Which is also important (and still being caught) for medical purposes and is pretty important in several species food chains? I would suggest doing more research before promulgating useless and false information…of course that would defeat the purpose of this entire article and nearly all of its associated comments

You’ll notice in the original ESPN article that Robert Montgomery states that fishing may be banned in SOME of the nations waters. A very important qualifier, and for anyone who actually goes fishing, we all know that fishing in SOME waters is banned. That’s why you need to read your state’s fishing regulations before you go fish. Sometimes they need to close certain areas at certain times of the year in order to protect vulnerable fish stocks.

You anti-Obama guys have reached a whole new degree of wackoism.

Jeffrey Weeks – Charlotte Fishing Examiner: “But to go from concern to suggesting that President Obama is about to ban fishing in America is the most absurd and irresponsible thing I have ever seen a major news outlet publish. There is not even a remote possibility that a standing president of the United States will outlaw fishing in America.”

So, put away your torches and nooses.

You people have lost your mind. Do you really think the administration wants to “ban fishing”? And you are calling people on teh left “wackos”? This blog post is embarassing to us Republicans that actually read and make decisions based on fact.

Obama = douche bag.

Amateur hour at the White House continues.

Drop dead Dino, what you know of history could be written on a
pinhead.

In 16 point font, no less.

My how horrible this would be if it were true.

Thankfully this blogger is just retarded.

Whew! Close one!

You’re welcome. (Not sarcastic)

I see the DKosKiddies are here spewing their lies. Barri has said, himself, words from his own mouth, that recreational fishing is BAD, and he will do all he can to stop it. He has also, in the same teleprompter speeches, said repeatedly that he will bankrupt and shut down the coal industry and stop all hunting. Oh, thats right, he only said that to you a$$holes to get your votes, not that he MEANT it. Just words. Words to get elected to the Illinois legislature, just words to get elected to Congress, just words to get elected President. He is just a liar, like all of you.

It wasn’t another country? Perhaps you would like to rethink that.

The US had slavery too Lioncourt. Perhaps you’ve forgotten that little factoid.

This is hilarious coming from a faggot who fools with other men’s bungholes. You are especially pissy today, dino. What’s the matter? Got some corn jammed in and can’t get it out?

Do as you will Bob.

Obama is a closet muslim who bowed down to the saudi and you damn well know it.

Obama is not a Muslim and even if he were, which is he not, what the f*ck would it matter?

I don’t want to have a submissive apologetic wimp president who runs down the country from within and without as this POS does. I also don’t want to live with primitive barbarians who are comfortable with 3rd world culture as muslims are.

I’m not saying that they’ll go towards prohibition, but if they do they’ll
do it in a gradual way. The people responsible won’t be around when the
prohibition finally happens.

And I could easily see them making it harder to fish in the near future.

I read somewhere where the Obama administration has already cut back the
quota’s for an important bait fish. They justified it because of a decline
in said baitfish but their figures for the bait fish levels aren’t
necessarily based on good science.

I’m not saying it will be done, but I am saying it can be done if they do it
slowly.

Good post Enigma.

Speaking of white trash, when did you graduate from doing farm animals to other men you inbred uneducated low life? Your uncle dad broke you in early.

Zig, the Congress of the United States passed the Crittenden Resolution was passed on July 25, 1861. It SPECIFICALLY said that the war was NOT about was not about “overthrowing or interfering with the rights or established institutions of those States(slavery),” but to “defend and maintain the supremacy of the Constitution and to preserve the Union.”

How does that square with the what we are taught today that the war was about the evils of slavery?

dinofag, back in the day I spent 275 days a year at sea in Alaskan waters and managed to save quite a few fishermen. But in many fishing towns could not buy a drink because the fishermen there remembered when we recovered the remains of their loved ones and returned them.

I’d say when it comes to inferiority you have me beat. You’ve only ever served yourself and you’ve done that badly. All you have is hate and no reason to live.

Genetically inferior? Wow!

As to the rest of your rant, you know nothing about the South at all so your opinion is worthless.

By the way, what part of my history is “rewritten”? Feel free to point it out.

I was on WHEC for many years patrolling the Gulf of Alaska and the Bearing Sea. It’s a brutal place in winter and not much better in Summer. We also patrolled the west coast. I got to save some guys and make some good drug busts. Now I’m happy to live far from the ocean in a place where lots of fish run up from it to spawn and be caught.

I don’t know about armed insurrection but willfully taking the kings deer and fish is definitely going to happen.

So much for your supposed intelligence. LOL

You have the limited vocabulary of typical white trash.

Dino you are a true troll.

I don’t know shyt about you———You are white, most likely in your late 20′s or early 30′s. You have an anger management issue. Most likely drive a Ford f250, have at least 3 rifles or shotguns and maybe a pistol. Apparently have a fetish for Conan the Barbarian. Beer before Whiskey. You are educated at least through high school most likely public. . You have unfortunate timing of placing that quote where it could be used against you which pissed you off. You hunt and fish, hate Muslims, gays and liberals most likely because you fear them. There is a paranoia within you that will consume you and yes there was a chip placed in your lower spine where you can’t see it so we do know where you are at all times. I don’t think you are from the South but probably believe the Civil War should have been the War for Succession. You believe in and honor servicemen and the armed forces. How am I doing so far? Metal music or Country? not sure. Venison over beef and any wine you drink costs less the $10 a liter.

You must have some great political pull in the South. Usually the winners write the history.

What you described is the typical white trash personality.

It fits WHFF to a T.

I wonder what it is that makes southerners genetically inferior? I mean, they’ve been a problem since they came here. Is it something in the soil that got into their bare feet?

We’ve been carrying that region around like some third world fifth wheel burden for centuries now. Very little innovation or development comes from there. Few major universities are located there. The people have limited intellect and intelligence and do nothing but elect white trash that provides a drag on progress. I mean, what’s their value except as cheap, exploitable, disposable labor?

Ok, you can resume rewriting history now.

Exactly. Lincoln had promised to withdraw all federal troops from CS soil, yet refused to actually do so. That’s why Fort Sumter was fired on.

GOP-gobbler

Are you offended by someone claiming you like guns and God?

Not at all. I am offended by anyone trying to interfere with my Second Amendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and offended by anyone interfering with my First Amendment Right for the Free Exercise of my religion.

I see what you did there, setting up a retarded question / strawman?

You can’t debate honestly.

The truth doesn’t work for you pukes.

Enjoy your arugula sandwiches!

Farm animals like your wife?

Ca-ca loverboy.

Thats funny you guys are still fighting it. Johnny Reb.

You were a Coastie, Will? Jesus, I can’t express my gratitude enough to Coasties. It takes a special kind of bravery to fly a helo in high winds, heavy seas and ice to rescue sailors. Good on ya bud!

I second the motion, despite all the crap I gave my Bro’ who was a Coastie, about being a ‘Buoy-Painter’ He ended up busting caps before I did, even though I was in a line unit, since he was doing vessel boardings in the Caribbean. A lot of drug running out there, and those guys on the stolen yachts with plastic-wrapped bales of whatever, didn’t take kindly to being asked to heave-to, and instead gunned it in an attempt to get away, opened fire with AK’s and after the Cutter or chopper had killed the offending vessels’ engines by firing into the transom, these guys would set fire to and scuttle their own vessels.

Plus, I’d had other contacts with Coasties and never been disappointed. They were friendly, low-key and professional.

[Sung to the tune of the MARINE CORPS HYMN]

If the Army and the Navy
ever give up to the foe
All the Coast Guard never will retreat
for we have no place to go.

Some good books on the subject:
The South Was Right!
Was Jefferson Davis Right?
Myths Of American Slavery
Why Not Freedom?
by James and Walter Kennedy.

Rational interpretations of history? LOL

You are a coprophiliac.

“My! A whole slew of right wing southern nutjobbery books!”

You’ve never even read one of those books. They’re well thought out, rational interpretations of history. Not everyone limits their library to Karl Marx, Frederich Engels and Noam Chomsky.

“Please, start the civil war again. Secede. The whole world will be better off if we can isolate the southern US.”

More of the same boring crap that can be found in your last 3000 posts. Get a life.

Your coprophilia is showing again.

Greg, Enigma,

Thanks, and thanks for the info on the Crittenden Resolution, passed on July 25, 1861, which pretty much goes far to show that we have been taught since grade school has been a huge lie.

It seems the further along I go in life the more lies about history I find (such as the NAZIs were NOT more angular and German versions of the Republican Party, but in reality, were homosexual, Darwinist Leftists).

As far as criticism of the South is concerned, I will say this: having lived in many places in the USA and overseas, it is clear to me that the South seems to be far more patriotic towards the nation than many places in the North. Moreover, there seem to be far more churches down South than up North, as well as gunshops. I do, however, prefer the weather in New England over the hot, sweltering Southern Dog Days.

Moreover, As Greg, WillHunt, Nieman and others can attest, we get an AWFUL lot of our military from the Southern states, and you will be hardpressed to find a Drill Instructor or Drill Sergeant who does not have an accent from below the Mason-Dixon line.

Getting back to the original post — I have heard conflicting statements on the evening News. The non-Fox newscasts are alleging that Obama’s proposed ban on sport fishing is a huge, overheated lie.

On the other hand, Glenn Beck was on last night, using maps, and twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each, showing that Obama was in fact seeking to implement the Antiquities Act in another landgrab, in the spirit of Clinton’s massive seizure of over a million acres in the Escalante State Park (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/724170/posts).

Again, it was about governmental power and control, and the environment is merely a sweet-smelling excuse. Beck further pointed out that the federal government owns about a third of the US landmass, mostly concentrated in the West and Alaska.

I tend to believe Glenn Beck more so than the Leftist MSM (who have given us such lies as exploding side-saddle gas tanks, Tailwind, No Gun Ri, and fake-but-accurate TexANG memos).

Assuming that Obama, et al, are serious about putting the governmental kay-bosh on sport fishing, I can only assume that they really WANT us to show up in Washington with pitchforks and torches, because sport fishing, I would think, is far more widespread and spans political beliefs and more importantly is a very direct impact on one’s personal lives

Such an action is akin to really ramping up the heat under the boiling frog. It is high-profile, and a huge, nonsensical powergrab. There is nothing subtle about this action.

It’s the kind of Commissar-control of ones’s personal life minutiae depicted by the character Dolores Umbridge.http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Dolores_Umbridge

This will not go well for the Obama camp.

“The Coast Guard is to the military as the Village People are to cops, cowboys and Indians.”

Those are your kind of people though. Them and Freddy Mercury.

There is no proposed ban on sport fishing. Period. It’s just a misunderstanding. Obama may be a lot of things, but he’s not that stupid. The original column at ESPN was just conjecture, based on no actual evidence. Sometimes it’s important to step out of ourselves and ask if a politician in America hoping to get reelected would do such a thing. The answer is NO.

The Coast Guard is to the military as the Village People are to cops, cowboys and Indians.

” We are angry bitter people who hate people who aren’t like us a” Thats pretty much spot on . I am glad you finally admitted it. What is your description of people who are like you?

“But more importantly is that the CSA had slavery. It was time to stop and it and it took a war. There were no other pertinent issues.”

Wrong. Lincoln made the “Civil War” about slavery. It wasn’t. It was about the rights of individual states over what was an increasingly, dominating federal government. Lincoln cared nothing about the blacks as evidenced by his statements about them before and during the war and the offer he made to the CS to allow them to keep their slavery if they returned to the Union.

Less than 5% off the Confederate soldiers actually owned slaves. Do you really think young men are going to die by the hundreds of thousands simply to keep slavery around? Also the Confederate constitution prohibited the international slave trade. Slavery would have died off in the CS, probably no later than 1880.

Thanks I will peruse. Man you can’t type anything on SAB without creating a stir. I didn’t mean to take this away from fishing.

In your case it would be prying your welfare from your cold dead hands.

Now that would piss me off. Camels back , straw etc.

Hehe, Obama does not know this tradition:P