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Saturday, July 05, 2008

Barack Obama On The White Man’s Greed

Here’s that unity candidate you’ve been hearing so much about telling us about the evils of the white man’s greed.

That’s from the audio book version of Barack Obama’s Dreams from My Father.  Here’s an excerpt:

[T]he pastor [Rev. Jeremiah “God Damn America” Wright] described going to a museum and being confronted by a painting title Hope.

“The painting depicts a harpist,” Revernd Wright explained, “a woman who at first glance appears to be sitting atop a great mountaintop. Untill you take a closer look and see that the woman is bruised and bloodied, dressed in tattered rags, the harp reduced to a single frayed string. Your eye is then drawn down to the scene below, down to the valley below, where everywhere are the ravages of famine, the drumbeat of war, a world groaning under strife and deprivation.

It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks’ greed runs a world in need, aprtheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere ... That’s the world! On which hope sits.”

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpesville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House.

Note that Obama, who has thrown Rev. Wright under the bus since the writing of this book, doesn’t disagree with Rev. Wright’s sermon at all in this narrative.  In fact, according to the book, he weeps at the end of it.

But isn’t alluding to “white man’s greed” a bit...racist?  Sort of like, oh I don’t know, Jews being blamed for the post World War I hardships in Germany?

And here’s more observations on this book written by the supposedly “post-racial” politics candidate:

Obama probably did not think about the presidential office possibility when he wrote the book “Dreams From My Father” as it is laden with racist categorizations. Obama categorizes people according to skin tone, as some are olive, pale, walnut, etc. Almost to the point of being laughable, if it was not so pathetic and scary. The last person to be that race obsessed in power started freakin’ WWII and murdered millions of innocent people.

My husband and I sat down one night and began counting how many times Obama used racial categorization or referred to race in his book Dreams From My Father. There are racial references made 179 times in the first 110 pages.

We got sick of counting at page 110 and sick of reading Obama’s racial trashing.

Very divisive stuff for a guy campaigning on unity.

Comments

Man, you guys will stop at nothing.  Repeating quotes taken out of context is bad enough.  But then not even giving the date of the sermon, the entire sermon is beyond the pale, Rob.

But in the end, no one is buying the drivvel you are trying to sell, Rob.  You are so afraid of losing this election, you can’t stand it.

You have a candidate, McBush who can’t get his campaign up and running, so you will take a passage out of context and for which you have fallen for hook line and sinker. 

How about Rob,you take a few hours out of your blogging day and actually read the book in its entirety instead of cut and pasting out of context passages from other rightie websites and then come back and discuss. That would be a novel idea for you and your blogging buddies.

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 09:24 am
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So what context can you provide us that changes the meaning of Obama’s words now that you’ve conceded that they’re objectionable as displayed above?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 5, 2008 at 09:30 am
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Maybe we should listen to 20 years worth of sermons from Jeremiah “God Damn the US of KKKA America” Wright before we comment on his racist, America hating rants, too?



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Proof on July 5, 2008 at 09:40 am

I didn’t concede anything Rob, but leave it to you to do the exact same thing you do in the post.  I simply wrote that you cut and pasted from another blog something taken out of context from a book and failed to give the context. 

Then you do the exact same thing from what I have written.  You are really lame, Rob.

Rob, no concession from me, nice try Rob.

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 09:48 am

Funny, I have read all of BHO’s published words now, and divisive and racist are certainly terms that come first to mind. Throw in his adeptness at telling each separate group what they want to hear with total sincerity, no matter how radically opposite those things may be, and you have the epitome of Democrat politician in one, neat package.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on July 5, 2008 at 09:52 am

I believe, that George Allen tried to do the same thing Jim Webb, using his books against.  And we saw what happened there...I’m just sayin.....

McBush is such a bad candidate that you can’t beat Obama head on so you are going to try the strategy and calling him a racist, a flipflopper.  Well, guys, it ain’t gonna work.  The Obama campaign is well-prepared, well funded, and is on the trail.  I believe that McCain took the weekend and the 4th off.  He needs the rest, he tires so easily.

Obama will continue with his strategy and you all will continue to throw mud hoping something sticks.  You don’t have a strategy to win this election.  You can’t stand McBush and neither do the righties.

Arrrgghhh, what will you do.....

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 10:00 am

Oh, yes indeed you conceded the point. Obamoid is your boy, and he is a racist. You have admitted that several time in different threads. Now, explain how all this racebaiting and class envy are not racebaiting and class envy.

And whilst you are at it, expalin how Obamoid and Michelle amassing vast amounts of windfall profits is not greedy. They produce nothing, therefore, any money they receive is a windfall profit, which you keep telling us is greedy. Lets us hear it, sweety.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on July 5, 2008 at 10:03 am

Notice puzz just toddles through, ignoring that she has conceded that her boy Obamoid is a racist(by her definition) and greedy(by her definition), and simply plagiarizes sentences from several columnists opinion pieces as some, supposedly, witty rejoinder.

She has no problem with racism and greed, as long as they are used for the accumulation of power by Democrats.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on July 5, 2008 at 10:40 am
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Puzzle, still waiting for you to provide the context to the direct quotation from Obama’s book (Puzzle accuses me of copying and pasting something from another blog, but the quote in question is from the book itself) which changes the meaning that is so clear from the text above.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 5, 2008 at 11:22 am
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I believe, that George Allen tried to do the same thing Jim Webb, using his books against.  And we saw what happened there...I’m just sayin.....

Allen’s attempt at taking quotes from Webb’s fictional books out of context was, indeed, laughable.  Shocking at first for one not familiar with the subject matter of Webb’s books, but ultimately silly as I conceded at the time.

That being said, that situation and this one bears little resemblance.  Unless, that is, you are willing to come forth with the context you keep alluding to which changes the clear meaning of Obama’s words as quoted above.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 5, 2008 at 11:25 am

What about “black man’s greed”?  Mugabe and Idi Dada come to mind.  No one has said a word about gangatas making lots of money from pimping rap music.

How about coming clean, BHO and treat everyone as equals.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on July 5, 2008 at 11:27 am

Actually, the excepted quote is wrong, 2h9 and Rob.  Here is the actual quote from page 292-295.

As the congregation joined in, the deacons, then Reverend Wright, appeared beneath the large cross that hung from the rafters.  The reverend remained while devotions were read, scanning the faces in front of him, watching the collection basket pass from hand to hand.  When the collection was over, he stepped up to the pulpit and read the names of those who had passed away that week, those who were ailing, each name causing a flutter somewhere in the crowd, the murmur of recognition.

“Let us join hands,” the reverend said, “as we kneel and pray at the foot of an old rugged cross--”

“Yes . . “

“Lord, we come first to thank you for what you’ve already done for us. We come to thank you most of all for Jesus. Lord, we come from different walks of life.  Some considered high, and some low . . . but all on equal ground at the foot of this cross.  Lord, thank you! For Jesus Lord . . . our burden bearer and heavy load sharer, we thank you . . .”

The title of Reverent Wright’s sermon that morning was “The Audacity of Hope”.  He began with a passage from the Book of Samuel--the story of Hannah, who, barren and taunted by her rivals, had wept and shaken in prayer before her God.  The story reminded him, he said, of a sermon a fellow pastor had preached at a conference some years before, in which the pastor described going to a museum and being confronted by a painting titled Hope. (Emphasis mine).

Then the part quoted in the post above minus the first sentence. Then this:

As the sermon unfolded, though, the stories of strife became more prosaic, the pain more immediate.  The reverend spoke of the hardship that the congregation would face tomorrow, the pain of those far from the mountaintop, worrying about paying the light bill. But also the pain of those closer to the metaphorical summit: the middle class woman who seems to have all her worldly needs taken care of but whose husband is treating her like “the maid the household service, the jitney service, and the escort service all rolled into one; the child whose wealthy parents worry more about the “the texture of hair on the outside of the head than the quality of education inside the head.

“isn’t that.. . .the world that each of us stands on?”

“Yessuh!”

“Like Hannah, we have known bitter times!  Daily, we face rejection and despair!”

“Say it!”

“And yet consider once again the painting before us Hope! Like Hannah, that harpist is looking upwards, a few faint notes floating upwards towards the heavens.  She dares to hope. . . She has the audacity. . . to make music.  . . and praise God . . .on the one string. . . she has left!”

And now the context:

And in that single note - I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion’s den, Ezekiel’s field of dry bones.  Those stories--of survival,and freedom, and hope--became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world.  Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn’t need to feel shamed about, memories more accessible than those of ancient Egypt, memories that all people might study and cherish--and with which we could start to rebuild.  And if a part of me continued to feel that this Sunday communion sometimes simplified our condition, that it could sometimes disguise or suppress the very real conflicts among us and would fulfill its promise only through action, I also felt for the first time how that spirit carried within it nascent, incomplete the possiblility of moving beyond our narrow dreams.

These sections were taken from Dreams from My Father, written by Barack Obama, See pages 291-295.

That is the context.

So Rob, it is not the actual quote as I have actually quoted it accurately. Whoever you copied and pasted this from, didn’t quote Obama’s words accurately and you didn’t bother to check it for accuracy either.

But there is so much more in the book, but you find it easier to take quotes out of context and not even accurate because it fits with your frame of thinking.

So desperate you are.....But I’m just saying.

And when you have time 2h9, please provide the passages where I have plagiarized anything. I’ll be waiting.

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 02:00 pm

Good job puzzlefeet.
Thanks.


Excuse me, you were saying?


realitybasedbob's signature
realitybasedbob on July 5, 2008 at 02:05 pm

Puzzlefeet - run circles around this one:

God Damn America

That came out of the mouth of your candidate’s “spiritual adviser”.

Now let’s sit back as you desperately try to convince us that this candidate’s cadre of deeply anti-American friends don’t matter.

Don’t forget to ignorantly include liberal uses of “McBush”. That one makes you look so intelligent. Your “reality based” buddies sure like it.

It must be hard to paint over the ugly history of your racist candidate. At least we know without a shadow of a doubt where you stand on such moral issues. You’ll throw your supposed anti-racism beliefs (minus the ugly fact that you support racist “affirmative” action) under the bus in the name of political expediency.

likwidshoe on July 5, 2008 at 02:31 pm

Really, lik, is that the best you got, Obama is a racist, Obama is a racist, Obama is a racist, say it fast three times.

McBush, McBush, McBush, a little tougher to say fast three times, McSame, McSame McSame is a bit easier tho.

oooohhhhh, you’re hurting my feelings lik.  Really, lik is this the best you got today?
I’m just sayin…

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 02:35 pm

oooohhhhh, you’re hurting my feelings lik.  Really, lik is this the best you got today?
I’m just sayin…

Sigh!  The clucking of aging poultry… to borrow a very apt expression.  Thanks, Fred!


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on July 5, 2008 at 02:54 pm

Puzzlefeet - oooohhhhh, you’re hurting my feelings lik.  Really, lik is this the best you got today?
I’m just sayin…

I see that it is just a game for you.

Good luck with your racist anti-American candidate.

likwidshoe on July 5, 2008 at 03:29 pm

No lik, it’s not a game in the least, I just love ridiculing you because it sets you off.  Again, I’m just saying.....

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 03:50 pm

I just love ridiculing you because it sets you off.

The confession of a troll.  You have nothing substantive, just mean-spirited personal attack, and you just admitted it.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 04:03 pm

No lik, it’s not a game in the least, I just love ridiculing you because it sets you off.

You’re assuming.

In reality, I recognize you as what you are - an ultimately clownish union thug with declining influence (so much so that you oppose secret balloting while calling the opposition to secret balloting the “Employee Free Choice Act") who loves America so much that she wants to fundamentally “change” it.

In short, you are the antithesis of a patriotic American. You’re more like a wannabe mafia thug who wishes to strong arm those who disagree. You and your “reality based” scrum offer little else than an example of saying one thing and then doing the opposite.

Barack, your racist candidate, would probably call you a “typical white person”.

Keep on “just saying”, whatever the hell that is supposed to tell us. And keep on hoping that you’ll ever be important enough in my life to set me off. You’re just a clown I’m laughing at.

likwidshoe on July 5, 2008 at 04:04 pm

It’s not that Obama said it, and subscribes to it; it’s the fact that those beliefs are central to black liberation theology, which is the ideology of his church for 20 years.

BTW, when Obama says “unity”, what he means is that no dissenting opinions are permitted.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 04:06 pm

No lik, it’s not a game in the least…

Actually, there is very small grain of truth in Puzzle’s otherwise worthless remark.  The real point is that there is virtually nothing about the Obama campaign that can be rationally defended.

The man has no experience or accomplishment to recommend him for the office of president.  His policy prescriptions are essentially counter-productive, and in the case of his economic and tax policies they offer less, not more economic growth and wealth creation.  He offers no hope for an increase in the supply of domestic-produced energy or relief from ever-increasing gas and oil prices and supplies stagnate and demand increases worldwide.

So, of course, Obama’s supporters are left with nothing but to attack those who disagree with their nominee.  They have no alternative, even if they knew how to avail themselves of it.  There is nothing about the Obama candidacy that is rationally defensible.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on July 5, 2008 at 04:17 pm

Oh, R108, lik so needs your support.  Have at it.

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 04:27 pm

Poor poor lik, doesn’t like the message, or the messenger.  I think we’ll just wait for the election and see what happens.

You can call Obama a racist all you want and you can call me a union thug or an unpatriotic american, but in the end, what you say doesn’t mean one whit to me. 

You don’t have a candidate that you can support, so the only way you can win is to try to tear down the other candidate. 

The problem with that is Obama gets it and gets what you righties are trying to do.  The problemis that Obama will have all the money to be able to respond to these idiotic attacks.  He won’t be swiftboated.  He is running his campaign strategy while your candidate can’t raise money, doesn’t have a strategy to win and doesn’t have his own party on his side. 
They’re busy trying to figure out how to keep Bush off the dais at the RNC.  Oooohhh can you see that picture now, with McCain and Bush at the convention.  Ooohhh, yeah, that’s right, there won’t be one, since McCain won’t be seen on the same podium as Bush. 

I guess I can see why you are taking the stance you are.  It’s all you have. We’ll keep talking to the swing voters and the independents and you keep throwing mud at Obama.  Again, it’s all you have.

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 04:35 pm

You can call Obama a racist all you want...blah, blah, blah.

His own published words, and his black liberation theology convict him.
Furthermore, the “white folks greed puts the world in need” is simply a paraphrase of Karl Marx’s preaching that “capitalist greed puts the proletariat in need.”
Obama is actually a black separatist and a Marxist, and is unfit to be the President of the United States.  He is, in fact, an enemy of the United States of America.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 05:55 pm

Wow r108, an enemy of the United States?  That is just too too funny. Carry on. I need to take a laughing out loud break. Bwaaaahahahaha.  Ok, I’m gonna compose myself now.....Bwaaaahahaha.  No really, I’m gonna try and take you seriously.

Ah, nevermind.  Bwaaahahaha.

Puzzlefeet on July 5, 2008 at 06:47 pm

Wow r108, an enemy of the United States?  That is just too too funny.

As an enemy of the United States yourself, you would think it’s funny.

When the Superior Person hears the truth, he or she immediately puts it into practice;

When the Middling Person hears the truth, he or she wants to know more about it;

When the Fool hears the truth, he or she laughs; If he or she did not laugh, it wouldn’t be the truth.

Have a good laugh, fool.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 07:16 pm

Just scroll back up the thread, sweety.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on July 6, 2008 at 04:42 am

He is, in fact, an enemy of the United States of America.
robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 05:55 pm

Damn uncle Robert! What are you smoking? Ooops I forgot you are against smoking.
What medication are you taking for senility? Change it. It does not work.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 08:35 am

Is this another one of your “olive branches”?
Just your usual personal attack.  You haven’t offered any proof that what I said was inaccurate in any way.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 08:52 am

Is this another one of your “olive branches”?
Just your usual personal attack. You haven’t offered any proof that what I said was inaccurate in any way. robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 08:52 am

You have rejected my olive branch. Remember?
No. It is you that offered no proof that what you said is accurate. Your saying so, is not sufficient.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 09:08 am

Your saying so, is not sufficient.

Then neither is yours.  In fact, you lie again; I offered facts and logic in what I wrote; you just lied about it.  Obama’s church for 20 years preached the black liberation theology, which is both black separatist and Marxist.  You can read up on it.  He parroted the “white folks greed puts the world in need” racist lie in his book, so his own words convict him.
I have that, you have nothing.
Your so-called “olive branch” was emotional manipulation only; you offered me nothing that I wanted.  You lie again.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:18 am
Avatar for Ken

He parroted the “white folks greed puts the world in need” racist lie in his book, so his own words convict him.

First, it was a quote so it wasn’t “his own words convict[ing] him”. Second, that doesn’t indicate that he’s an enemy of the US. It just makes him a guy who thinks white folks are greedy. That definitely speaks to his character, but it does in no way indicate that he wishes to destroy America.

Ken on July 6, 2008 at 09:47 am
Avatar for Ken

Also, if you were to say that in your opinion Obama is an enemy of the US, I would have no problem with it. But to declare it as fact requires a level of evidence that you have not provided.

Ken on July 6, 2008 at 09:49 am

I offered facts and logic in what I wrote;
robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:18 am
You offered nothing but misguided miscalculation,erroneous speculation, and unfounded assumptions.
Once again, your saying so, is not sufficient.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 10:01 am

Second, that doesn’t indicate that he’s an enemy of the US. It just makes him a guy who thinks white folks are greedy. That definitely speaks to his character, but it does in no way indicate that he wishes to destroy America.

Your ignorance is astounding!  Obama is both a black separatist and a Marxist, and both those ideologies intend to destroy the United States as it now exists, and “change” it into something else.
As I said, his words convict him.
As far as your bullshit about it being a quotation, it goes to who he accepts as a leader.  It wasn’t Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson or George Washington who he quoted.
It is a fact that Obama’s belief systems make him an enemy of the US.  He wants to “change” this country into one that follows his core ideology, and to “unify” us under that totalitarian rule.
His Muslim roots only add to that.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:03 am

You offered nothing but misguided miscalculation,erroneous speculation, and unfounded assumptions.

You lie again, troll!
Obama was a member of a church that preaches black liberation theology.  Fact!
Obama’s spiritual mentor, who he quotes in his book, is a black separatist who preaches racial hatred and division from his pulpit.  Fact!
Obama’s political guru was a Marxist subversive named Saul Alinsky, from whom Obama got his core political ideology.  Fact!
The quote from Wright that Obama chose for his book, and with which he agrees, is a paraphrase of basic Marxism, that self-reliance and self-interest is “greed”.  Obama endorses Wright’s racist spin on that basic ideology.  Fact!
Both Marxism and black liberation theology advocate violent revolution to overthrow the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States.  Fact!

Anyone who advocates the violent(or any other) overthrow of the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States is an enemy of the United States of America.  Logical conclusion.

You, on the other hand, troll, have nothing but lies, ignorance and bullshit.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:11 am

He wants to “change” this country......
robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:03 am

All politicians want to change America in some way.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 10:13 am

You lie again, troll!
Obama was a member of a church that preaches black liberation theology.  Fact!
robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:11 am

And that scares you? All oppressed people have liberation aspirations.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 10:16 am

And that scares you? All oppressed people have liberation aspirations.

Not scare, but it a cause of real concern if you understand that Black Liberation Theology - is anti-caucasion at its heart, it is designed to advance blackness as a test of whether or not one has value. It is separatist at its core and that is anti-American.

It is also anti-Christ in that it advances the very racism the black community has long, rightly, deplored, which is contrary to the Gospel.

Lastly, in America every human being has an equal opportunity throuigh hard work to succeed, there is no real systemic oppression of any race in this nation any longer.


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on July 6, 2008 at 10:23 am

All politicians want to change America in some way.

Wrong!!!  Many want to preserve and support what makes America great: individual independence and a free enterprise economic system(you should read up on that one).  Even those who want to change things are to be judged on exactly what those changes will be, and that is precisely what I’m doing with my analysis of Obama.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:25 am

And that scares you? All oppressed people have liberation aspirations.

It doesn’t “scare” me, so you lie again.  The typical leftie victimology bullshit is strong with you, troll.
If you were informed at all about black liberation theology, you would already know that what I said about it is true.  Since you continue to comment on things about which you know nothing, no rational discussion is possible with you.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:28 am
Avatar for Ken

As far as your bullshit about it being a quotation, it goes to who he accepts as a leader.

I agree with you. But the lie was when you said it was his own words.

The quote from Wright that Obama chose for his book, and with which he agrees, is a paraphrase of basic Marxism, that self-reliance and self-interest is “greed”. 

The Bible says similar things.

Anyone who advocates the violent(or any other) overthrow of the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States is an enemy of the United States of America.

I agree, but I have seen no evidence that Obama has advocated for the “violent overthrow” of the Constitution. And just because someone wants to change, not overthrow, the Constitution doesn’t make them an enemy of the US. The founders left an amendment process for a reason.

And that racism argument doesn’t fly. If we are to believe someone is an enemy of America just because they have some racist views, we’d have to say that Jefferson or any other founder who owned slaves was also an enemy of America. Immoral yes, but an enemy of the US is stretching it.

I think Obama would be terrible for this country if he were elected POTUS, but I’m not going to question his patriotism until I see more evidence.

Ken on July 6, 2008 at 10:30 am

You lie again, troll!
Obama was a member of a church that preaches black liberation theology.  So what? America is not going to change.
Obama’s spiritual mentor, who he quotes in his book, is a black separatist who preaches racial hatred and division from his pulpit. So what? America is full of preachers who are seperatists preach racial hatred and division.
Obama’s political guru was a Marxist subversive named Saul Alinsky, from whom Obama got his core political ideology.  So what? Marxism will never take root in America.
The quote from Wright that Obama chose for his book, and with which he agrees, is a paraphrase of basic Marxism, that self-reliance and self-interest is “greed”.  Obama endorses Wright’s racist spin on that basic ideology. So what. Millions in America agree with the greed thing.

Both Marxism and black liberation theology advocate violent revolution to overthrow the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States.
Not true:A clear definition of black theology was first given formulation in 1969 by the National Committee of Black Church Men in the midst of the civil-rights movement:
Black theology is a theology of black liberation. It seeks to plumb the black condition in the light of God’s revelation in Jesus Christ, so that the black community can see that the gospel is commensurate with the achievements of black humanity. Black theology is a theology of ‘blackness.’ It is the affirmation of black humanity that emancipates black people from White racism, thus providing authentic freedom for both white and black people. It affirms the humanity of white people in that it says ‘No’ to the encroachment of white oppression.

In the 1960s, black churches began to focus their attention beyond helping blacks cope with national racial discrimination particularly in urban areas.

The notion of “blackness” is not merely a reference to skin color, but rather is a symbol of oppression that can be applied to all persons of color who have a history of oppression (except whites, of course). So in this sense, as Wright notes, “Jesus was a poor black man” because he lived in oppression at the hands of “rich white people.” The overall emphasis of Black Liberation Theology is the black struggle for liberation from various forms of “white racism” and oppression.

Anyone who advocates the violent(or any other) overthrow of the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States is an enemy of the United States of America.  Logical conclusion.

Not so fast. BHO does not advocate violent(or any other) overthrow of the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States so he is not an enemy of the United States of America.
Your conclusion is illogical.

You have nothing but lies, ignorance and bullshit.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 10:32 am
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Rob,

Puzzle, still waiting for you to provide the context to the direct quotation from Obama’s book

He did and you haven’t replied since you have found out once again your fact checking as missed the mark by a mile.

likwidshoe,

Puzzlefeet - run circles around this one:

That’s right, change the subject.

robert108,

The confession of a troll.  You have nothing substantive, just mean-spirited personal attack, and you just admitted it.

When the Superior Person hears the truth, he or she immediately puts it into practice;

Stop with your superiority complex. Stop believing that you are more intelligent then others. Stop your hypocrisy of ‘mean-spirited personal attack’, you turn to your other face and spill them at will.

You lie again.

A man walks up to Robert, “Robert, I love women with red hair, what do you think?” Robert’s face begins to turn red, “You lie! Women with brown hair are better!”

Nunez on July 6, 2008 at 10:40 am
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Robert108:

It doesn’t “scare” me…

You are one of the most scared people I know, bob.

You’re too chickenshit to accept my challenge, you pathetic loser?

Jack on July 6, 2008 at 10:44 am

I must congratulate you, troll!  You have attempted your first logical argument.
Of course, your “olive branch” at the end nullifies any virtue you might have accumulated, but it’s no surprise.

I’ll ignore your bullshit at the end, and proceed to address this first attempt at logic.

So what? America is not going to change.

That’s not the point; the truth is that Obama wants to force us to change(his wife’s words).  That’s the problem with Obama.  Whether he succeeds or not, he is an enemy of the present US, which is what I said.

So what? America is full of preachers who are seperatists preach racial hatred and division.

They aren’t running for President, which again is my point.  America, due to its freedoms, is full of haters(like yourself), but they are only annoying; however, when one of them wants to be President, we need to pay closer attention.

So what? Marxism will never take root in America.

Unless it gets a President and a sycophantic Congress, which is my point here.

So what. Millions in America agree with the greed thing.

That doesn’t make it either true, or supportive of America.

A clear definition of black theology was first given formulation in 1969 by the National Committee of Black Church Men in the midst of the civil-rights movement:

Nope; that’s sanitized version, which is racist enough, but for the real truth, read Cone.

BHO does not advocate violent(or any other) overthrow of the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States so he is not an enemy of the United States of America.

Yes, he does.  His Marxist ideological roots call for violent overthrow of the US, and his racist black liberation theology calls for the present Constitutional govt to be overthrown(or “replaced") by one based on skin color and the lie of “black oppression”.
BTW, the Obamas are not “oppressed” in any sense of the word.

While you may disagree with my premises(wrongly, as I have demonstrated with facts, again and again), if you knew logic, you would know that my conclusion follows from my premises, thus when you say my conclusion is illogical, you are expressing your ignorance.
You should really educate yourself before you speak on matters about which you know little or nothing.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:49 am
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He did and you haven’t replied since you have found out once again your fact checking as missed the mark by a mile.

First, Puzzled is a she.  Second, I’ve been at the lake all weekend and only checking in sporadically.  Third, Puzzled is so laughably dumb that she usually doesn’t even need to be responded to.  Fourth, did either you or Puzzled listen to the audio in the YouTube video?

How exactly did I “misquote” Obama there?  Do you think I impersonated his voice and recorded myself reading from his book?

Maybe if you morons were intellectually honest enough to realize that your candidate has problems - you’ll note that I am often quite explicit in criticizing McCain - you’d be worth taking seriously.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

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Rob on July 6, 2008 at 10:54 am
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Oh, and Puzzled’s additional quotations from the book don’t add any context at all.  I see nothing there which shows that Obama doesn’t agree with Rev. Wright’s “white man’s greed” theory.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 6, 2008 at 10:56 am

The founders left an amendment process for a reason.

Obama isn’t proposing any amendments, as far as I know.  He intends to impose his ideology on America through legislation and the courts, like lefties usually do.  He also wants to impose higher taxes and increased regulations, which strike directly at the heart of our personal and economic freedom.

If we are to believe someone is an enemy of America just because they have some racist views…

I said no such thing.  If your arguments continue to rely on mischaracterizing what I say, then you have nothing.
The specific racism expressed in black liberation theology is very clear and its intention is clear: White people are evil, black people are good, and black people should overthrow white people.

Nunez, you ignorant slut:

A man walks up to Robert, “Robert, I love women with red hair, what do you think?” Robert’s face begins to turn red, “You lie! Women with brown hair are better!”

I have already expressed my preference for redheaded women on another thread.  Your “example” is pure bullshit.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 10:57 am
Avatar for Nunez

ellians: And that scares you?
robert108: It doesn’t scare me, so you lie again.

Ashley’s a nice woman, a friendly woman. Slowly walking into the bank, she notices an older man, Robert and in her attempt to strike up conversation to pass the time she asks, “Hi! Are those shoes Hugo Boss?” Robert replies in an angry tone, “YOU LIE! These are sketchers.” Ashley is baffled. “Is he just another mean old man?” she asks herself. Maybe he hasn’t accomplished what he wanted to in his lifetime? Then she caught herself and understands that he has to live with himself and that has to be torture enough. She gave him a smile and continued on her way, still happy and still friendly.

Nunez on July 6, 2008 at 10:59 am

Nunez: Your sick obsession with lying about me is noted.  Get some help with it.

Rob: The quotation is from the first sermon Obama heard from Wright after he joined the church; it obviously made a big impression on him, being a rephrase of his own Marxist ideology, with a racial spin as an extra added attraction.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 11:15 am

Nunez, you effeminate metrosexual: When I look at a woman, I don’t look at her shoes.
When your premises are lies, I call them that.  When your premises are ignorant, I call you on that. When your opinions aren’t supported by anything, I call you on that.  When you have nothing other than personal attack, I call you on that.
Get used to it.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 11:28 am
Avatar for Jack

...if you knew logic, you would know that my conclusion follows from my premises, thus when you say my conclusion is illogical, you are expressing your ignorance.

If that’s true you’d accept my challenge, bob.

But you’d lose, you know it, and you’re acting like a coward.

Typical.

Jack on July 6, 2008 at 11:40 am

e:So what? America is not going to change.

R108:That’s not the point.

It is my point.

e: So what? America is full of preachers who are seperatists preach racial hatred and division.

R108:They aren’t running for President, which again is my point.  America, due to its freedoms, is full of haters(like yourself), but they are only annoying; however, when one of them wants to be President, we need to pay closer attention.

My point is they influence a great number of people. We just don’t know if they are running for political office.

e:So what? Marxism will never take root in America.
R108:Unless it gets a President and a sycophantic Congress, which is my point here.

Unless,is a big if. Will never happen. Get real.

e:So what. Millions in America agree with the greed thing.
R108:That doesn’t make it either true, or supportive of America.

As someone else pointed out,the bible speaks against greed. So there must be truth in it for millions of Americans believe in the bible.

e:A clear definition of black theology was first given formulation in 1969 by the National Committee of Black Church Men in the midst of the civil-rights movement:
R108:Nope; that’s sanitized version, which is racist enough, but for the real truth, read Cone.

Whilst there may be some among the black community that ascribe to the version you agree with, the vast majority including BHO dissagree with you.

e:BHO does not advocate violent(or any other) overthrow of the Constitution and Founding Principles of the United States so he is not an enemy of the United States of America.

R108:Yes, he does.  His Marxist ideological roots call for violent overthrow of the US, and his racist black liberation theology calls for the present Constitutional govt to be overthrown(or “replaced") by one based on skin color and the lie of “black oppression”.
BTW, the Obamas are not “oppressed” in any sense of the word.

Your opinion belies the truth. One can study something without ascribing to it.
Not being opressed does not mean one can not advocate for the oppressed.

While you may disagree with my premises(wrongly IMO), if you knew logic, you would conclude exactly the opposite from your wrongly concluded positions.

By the way logic is a Greek word.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 12:00 pm

By the way logic is a Greek word.

As your past performance sadly indicates, that confers no advantage on you.

My conclusion agrees with my premises.  If you knew anything about logic, you would know that.

Cone is one of the founders of black liberation theology, btw.  You are wrong there, too.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 12:07 pm

Cone is one of the founders of black liberation theology, btw.  You are wrong there, too.
robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 12:07 pm

Cone may be one of the founders of black liberation theology but that in itself does not mean the vast majority of black people including BHO agree wit him, and/or have not taken to his message in a more moderate way for exaple the one I posted earlier.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Avatar for Nunez

robert108,

Nunez, you ignorant slut:

Another hypocritical remark. ‘Personal attack of the opponent, on various levels;’ is how you express when someone is unable to logically defend their position, such as yourself by your own definition.

I have already expressed my preference for redheaded women on another thread.  Your “example” is pure bullshit.

I have observed from reading your comments that you are unable to understand different levels of abstraction. When the Bible says, “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?” You think that there really talking about a real piece of wood in their eye.

Nunez: Your sick obsession with lying about me is noted.

Another example of your failure to understand a metaphor. You’re probably one of those people that believe that the Bible should be completely taken literally.

Nunez, you effeminate metrosexual: When I look at a woman, I don’t look at her shoes.

When you speak about another’s reading comprehension, I always laugh.

In the story, Ashley asks Robert about HIS shoes, he doesn’t notice or mention her shoes at all. With your effeminate nonsense, how is looking at a woman’s shoes automatically make you have feminine traits? Are you telling me that you have NEVER looked at a woman’s shoes? I do prefer a woman wearing a dress to have high heels on than tennis shoes. Ohh jeez, I must be a fag then.

When you have nothing other than personal attack, I call you on that.

How about you call yourself on that. It’s a shame that you hold a higher standard for others to live up to than you place on yourself.

Nunez on July 6, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Avatar for Ken

Nunez, you effeminate metrosexual: When I look at a woman, I don’t look at her shoes.

That’s nice. But in the example Nunez gave, the woman was the one looking at your shoes:

Slowly walking into the bank, she notices an older man, Robert[,] and in her attempt to strike up conversation to pass the time she asks, “Hi! Are those shoes Hugo Boss?” Robert replies in an angry tone, “YOU LIE! These are sketchers.” Ashley is baffled.

You intentionally lie to mischaracterize what Nunez really said. You should brush up on reading comprehension. A small point, I agree, but it speaks to your mental acuity.

Obama isn’t proposing any amendments, as far as I know.

Agreed, but he hasn’t proposed violently overthrowing the Constitution either.

The specific racism expressed in black liberation theology is very clear and its intention is clear: White people are evil, black people are good, and black people should overthrow white people.

Yeah and it’s wrong as some of the founders were when they basically said: White people are superior, black people are inferior, therefore white people should enslave black people. I still don’t believe Jefferson was an enemy of America though. But all this is irrelevant since BHO has never advocated for the “overthrow of white people.”

Ken on July 6, 2008 at 12:31 pm
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I notice Nunez has now dropped his earlier assertion, backing up Puzzled’s, that I misquoted Obama given that the audio of Obama himself reading the passage in question is right in the post.

I won’t expect an apology.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 6, 2008 at 12:39 pm
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Rob,

Dropping my assertion and not caring to respond is far from the same thing. It’s not because they don’t deserve a response, it’s that I respect you and don’t believe that you wallow in ignorance as robert108 does. I enjoy exposing robert’s contorted thinking and will focus on that.

Nunez on July 6, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Slowly walking into the bank, she notices an older man, Robert[,] and in her attempt to strike up conversation to pass the time she asks, “Hi! Are
those shoes Hugo Boss?” Robert replies in an angry tone, “YOU LIE! These are sketchers.” Ashley is baffled.

This story is a complete lie, so you have no point, Ken.
Are you lying about me again?  Shame on you!

The Founders didn’t assert anything like you claim; it was a traditional belief at that time, shared by many countries, most notably Great Britain and all the Muslim countries.  It doesn’t justify the racism of black liberation theology, however, especially over a hundred years since slavery was outlawed in this country.
Your justification for black racism is bunk.

Agreed, but he hasn’t proposed violently overthrowing the Constitution either.

I repeat: both his core ideologies do, and he hasn’t yet been elected President.  What I have said is that his roots, core beliefs and pronouncements from both he and his wife merit scrutiny before his election.  If he isn’t an enemy of America, he has yet to make that very clear by repudiating both Marxism and black liberation theology, point by point, in public.
He has yet to do that; instead, he is floating out political buzzwords and phrases designed to deceive the public, and has avoided any specific discussion of his core beliefs.  In fact, he has objected to being questioned about them.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Nunez: I have no need to change anything about what Obama has written in his books, what Wright and Cone have written about their “black liberation theology”, the writings of Karl Marx and the writings of Saul Alinsky.
You will have to bring something more substantive than your lying fantasies about me.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 12:59 pm
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Shorter Nunez: I don’t want to admit that I was wrong.

I’ll accept that as your apology.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 6, 2008 at 01:03 pm

Cone may be one of the founders of black liberation theology but that in itself does not mean the vast majority of black people including BHO agree
wit him, and/or have not taken to his message in a more moderate way for exaple the one I posted earlier.

In fact, Michelle Obama, when she spoke to a group of young black people, urged them to refrain from joining the middle class.  This is right out of Cone.
Do you have any proof of your conjecture?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 01:03 pm

I have observed from reading your comments that you are unable to understand different levels of abstraction.

So, now you claim your lying smear attempts are “abstraction”, and later, “metaphor”.  You are pathetic.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 01:06 pm
Avatar for Ken

This story is a complete lie, so you have no point, Ken.

Of course the story is a lie, its a metaphor. But I never commented on the veracity of the story, merely you’re inability to correctly read and comprehend the material contained within it. And as your above comment indicates, my assumption regarding your reading abilities is correct.

The Founders didn’t assert anything like you claim; it was a traditional belief at that time, shared by many countries, most notably Great Britain and all the Muslim countries.It doesn’t justify the racism of black liberation theology, however, especially over a hundred years since slavery was outlawed in this country.
Your justification for black racism is bunk.

I never said black racism was justified. Nor is white racism and black enslavement justified by “traditional beliefs”. Racism is immoral no matter what. I’m not a moral relativist like yourself. My point was that racism in-and-of-itself does not make one an enemy of the US. It just makes them a racist asshole.

And maybe the founders didn’t assert what I claim, but they sure as hell did practice it. Actions speak louder to me than words.

Ken on July 6, 2008 at 01:09 pm

Of course the story is a lie, its a metaphor.

Bullshit rationalization, since it contains absolutely no truth.  The only thing it serves to do is to illustrate the sickness of the one who tries to rationalize lying smear as “metaphor”.  I guess you belong to that group as well as the one who claims lying smear is a “joke”.

I’m not a moral relativist like yourself.

You lie again; I’m not a moral relativist, and have been viciously attacked by the leftie moral relativists on this blog for just that reason.

Your hateful attempt to smear America by dredging up past sins that have been corrected long ago is despicable.
I never said Obama’s racism alone makes him an enemy of the US, so you can’t read either, apparently.
It’s the combination of his racist victimology, the subversive black liberation theology, and the subversive ideology of Marxism, as I have said over and over again.
You’re cherry-picking again, hater.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 01:25 pm

And maybe the founders didn’t assert what I claim, but they sure as hell did practice it. Actions speak louder to me than words.
Ken on July 6, 2008 at 01:09 pm

Ken don’t forget the fact that the founders were God fearing Christians.

Now listen all you liberal left wing hacks. When R108 lies use the politicaly correct terms:
a)R108 you are less than truthfull.
b)R108 that is an untruth.
c)R108 are you misspeaking?
d)R108 are you truth challenged?
e)R108 you lying right wing hack you.

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