Say Anything Blog

In the Catholic world any form of contraception is a form of abortion.

This is going to tick Planned Parenthood off more than anyone!… Abortion is BIG Business. That is going to cut into their take… This will be interesting to see how it plays out???

Not quite true, Richard.  Catholic doctrine separates abortion, the killing of a fertilized embryo, from contraception, the prevention of fertilization by unnatural means.  I’m not Catholic myself, but the distinction here is significant.

Regardin the "study," a sample size of 172 women with 1 hemorrhage (what they called a "heavy bleed" is entirely consistent with the results had with RU-486, which has lead to the hemorrhage and infection deaths of at least eight women so far in Europe, Canada, and the United States.  It is not the kind of statistics that I would expect before declaring something "safe."

 Even scarier is the Department of Health comment about wanting "no risk."  Again, statistically speaking, this is absurdity; there is risk with anything.  If this kind of idiocy is at all representative, I do not envy Britons their healthcare system.

I think that  this will make abortions easier to do. You don’t have to go out into public you can do it in the privacy of your own home. This may also make it more appealing to some who may think twice to go in public and do this. wow what a wrong move to make. We should be working to stop the murders of babies not moving forward to create more.

Alicia,… How true… Still the fact remains that each day women in our Country are allowed abortions legally.

Just another step toward abortions becoming the contraceptices of the future.

Yay!!!

...How are you?

docdave, I never thought of that very good point! although i stand behind my statement saying that an abortion may look more appealing to do. The way they do a normal abortion (or so I’ve heard) is dramatic, taking a pill and the "problem" goes away seems way better. That is just the way society is no though take a pill and get thin fast, take a pill and be happy, take a pill and stop disease, take a pill and have an abortion! things are getting out of control.

Doc,… I am going to say Yes to Your question. How ever we want to phrase the word " Abortion"??? We really can’t get around the fact that getting an "Abortion" is a technique used to terminate the life of a "baby", "fetus" or any other terminology we care to use… The word miscarriage conjures up the idea that it would be more of a natural rejection, rather than purposely going in the mothers womb to remove the entity.

Zsa, very well said!!

Doc, Alicia,… The technique in question was a procedure for a 9 week or less pregnancy. I believe this pill or whatever it is, will most likely be given with a doctors instruction in the privacy of the mother’s home??? I really don’t know much about it. I do believe Planned Parenthood won’t appreciate it, unless of course they get some piece of the action!… Abortion is Big Money!!!…

If the procedure can be performed safely at home, women don’t have to face the harrassment that may occur while going to a clinic.  This keeps the decision completely where it belongs, in the privacy of one’s own home. 

If the procedure can be performed safely at home, women don’t have to face the harrassment that may occur while going to a clinic.  This keeps the decision completely where it belongs, in the privacy of one’s own home.

Yeah...except the baby still dies.  And that just isn’t acceptable. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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It might "die," but it certainly doesn’t suffer, which is where our focus should be. Or are you maintaining that we should increase the amount of pleasure in the world, and that by aborting a fetus we’re eliminating its possibility for future pleasure?

It might "die," but it certainly doesn’t suffer, which is where our focus should be.

You’re arguing for your own "death" Dave. You’re telling us that we can "kill" (love the quotes there btw, it takes all question of morality out of the equation which is obviously your goal) you if we believe that it would reduce the amount of suffering in this world. Who determines whether or not your "death" would decrease the amount of suffering in the world? Well, we do! You get no word in the matter.

Robert we can back and forth all day over different definitions the Catholic Churches position is well known and I will leave it at that. I would like to point out that 14 people were killed last year by falling coconuts almost twice the number of bleeding deaths and I do not see anybody rushing to declare coconuts unsafe.

Dave,… Actually during an abortion the mother and the "fetus" both feel pain. There are actual pictures of abortions that provide proof that as soon as 1 week gestation the "fetus" has formed a nervous system.(spinal cord)… As far as suffering goes. I am not sure what you mean? Are you saying that the fetus will feel no pain in the womb during the procedure? OR… Are you saying by being aborted the "fetus" will never have to suffer this worlds problems??? Although the "fetus" has not fully developed it does experience some suffering when aborted. The nervous system is a complex and very intricate part of the human anatomy. It functions like a maze through out the body. It is kind of like tiny tentacles traveling over the body. That is what makes our bodies respond to feeling pain or pleasure…

How would all of that be considering the fetus isn’t even infused with blood until the 18th day. And isn’t there some reference in Leviticus that refutes this as well?

"Yeah...except the baby still dies.  And that just isn’t acceptable. "

If you believe that, then don’t have an abortion.  But don’t expect to kick down my door and tell me what I can or cannot do.

No woman has a right to kill another mans baby, no more so than a man has a right to kill another womans child.

Marty although I may agree with you. Where have you been the only real rights the male has is the to go to jail if they refuse to pay child support. There are still a boat load of judges out there that will return a child to an unfit mother beofre granting a father anything.

modern instances said, If you believe that, then don’t have an abortion.  But don’t expect to kick down my door and tell me what I can or cannot do.

We’re talking about abortion. You know, the procedure that causes the death of another human being? With that in mind, you shouldn’t be saying the above.

Actually Likwid some of us consider that as much a part of the issue as anything else. With that in mind live and let post.

I wouldn’t dream of kicking anyone’s door down to prevent them from doing whatever they feel like doing!… However,… educating individuals on the human anatomy and how spectacular the phases of how a life begins is a concern anyone considering an abortion should know… Technology has advance rapidly since abortion was legalized. The ideology of yesterday is quite different from today’s knowledge. Speculation was once the theory. Today technology removes that ideology and we no longer have to speculate or theorize. If you feel the need to get an abortion it is Legal. BUT just know that it doesn’t mean the same thing as what we were once told it meant!…

So let me get this straight technology has changed the fact that somebody is removing a fetues from a womb? I am not trying to be obtuse here but your post meant a lot to me right up to that point.

Richard,… What I am saying is, what we once thought and theorized about abortion is no longer valid.

Zsa, I think you make a very good point technology has come a long way and we know a lot more now about how a child is born than when abortion was legalized actually I have read books telling and showing day by day what a baby in the womb develops it is facinating. within a matter of hours after an egg is fertalized it already has its DNA and knows what color of hair and eyes it will have and how tall or short it really is amazing. These are reasons that abortion should not be leagal. richard why is this right  or OK to you?

I do not believe I stated right or wrong at any given point.

I do believe that people have personal choices that they have to make in life however, although personally abortion is not a choice that I would make for myself it is a decision that I make and I do not judge others for their choices either in the positive or the negative.

Although I have not seen your book a lot of the books that I have seen are based a lot in theory. I pointed to Leviticus earlier as a point that I heard once upon a time as stating in the Bible at what point life begins and like a lot of the bible it probably does not follow what some religious stalwarts would like to believe.

I do see this issue as more of you should believe what I do because my bible says I am correct and you are wrong than I do an issue of allowing people to make their own choices which is why I tend to side with the pro-choicers.

I do see this issue as more of you should believe what I do because my bible says I am correct and you are wrong than I do an issue of allowing people to make their own choices which is why I tend to side with the pro-choicers.

In other words: you support abortion out of spite.

Notice that you were the one who brought up religion.

So you do support abortion or you just do not frown upon it. Let me ask you this than, the reason most women choose to have an abortion is because they were not ploanning on haveing a baby, is it ok then to kill a baby after it is born like some do or should they use an alternantive like adoption? I hate the term  pro-choice because noone asks these babies if they want to live or die shouldnt it be their choice and not another because they are the ones on the chopping block.

Hers comes the likwid everybody fits in my box response.

First lik I was trying to address the fact that Alicia "why I thought it was right or OK" which to that point I had never stated either, in that response I did mention religion and you are correct, I do think that if the religion portion of this debate was removed we may be able to come to reasonable compromise. But agian it is people like you that prove my point you took a simple measured response and turned it into what you want it to be.

Let me see if I can do this real simple for you. I do not support abortion but my support or lack there of is my conviction and I will not force that upon somebody else. You whoever out of spite may want to force your views onto others because well that is what you do isn’t it.

richard no i do not want to force my opinion on anyone however, i feel very strongly about this topic and to me it is very simple. I guess I missunderstood your view on the issue.

Alicia I think my point was clear to both you and lik. I do think it is funny that again you know why most women have abortions. Obviously there  is an unwanted factor but that is pretty broad, I mean unwanted why...Can’t afford it, not ready, the list goes on and on. You may want o accept the fact that your definition may not fit at all. By the way you can not ask the baby it is impossible which just shows the depth of your thought when you want to make decisions for others based on what you think.

richard says, But agian it is people like you that prove my point you took a simple measured response and turned it into what you want it to be.

Where and how did I do that? You don’t say.

I do not support abortion but my support or lack there of is my conviction and I will not force that upon somebody else.

But you’re likely to go onto the side of the "pro-choicers" out of spite. We get that. You said as much before.

You whoever out of spite may want to force your views onto others because well that is what you do isn’t it.

No it isn’t.

You’re getting belligerent richard.

I know abortion is a choice but I just do not think that making a pill to make this easier or more appealing is the right thing to do.

Alicia I do not as well.

Lik you are the one that used the word spite and as far as the rest goes I will just let it lie right where it belongs.

Lik you are the one that used the word spite and as far as the rest goes I will just let it lie right where it belongs.

It certainly appears as spite to me. But whatever.

You were right on one thing: I do force my views on some things. No murder, no thieving, no arson… Catch the drift? Perhaps one day you’ll see how silly the, "I will not force that upon somebody else" abortion argument is.

I also liked your, "By the way you can not ask the baby it is impossible which just shows the depth of your thought when you want to make decisions for others based on what you think." point. You can’t ask a sleeping man either.

richard, obviously i know it is impossible to ask the baby i was just saying that the baby is the one dying here noone else and we do it like we eat breakfast. when a person is murdered they are not asked if the want to live or die either there is a simalarity there. i did not turn anything into what i want it to be you did say that you did not state right or wrong and then went on to say you side with pro-choicers. maybe you should rethink what you are saying and as far as trying to make people do what i think is not true i never told you not to have an abortion i simply said that i think it is wrong and can be caracterized as murder

Alicia and Richard,… What is really cool is to see the new GE Ultra sound images! Also they have another way to go inside with a needle that has a camera. I can’t remember what it is called but it is quite a devolopment for the technology of fertilization. When I was pregnant with my children the images on my ultra sound were certainly not visible for anyone other than a trained eye! Today the images are so clear anyone can see! My daughters friend is having twins. She was going to have an abortion until she saw her ultra sound. She was less than 4 weeks pregnant at the time… I am not an advocate of abortion but it is legal in our country. I am concerned about people who shoot and kill doctors who perform abortions! That is WRONG!!!! It is my hope that someday abortion will be one of those things that we as individuals will see as a passe procedure that ignorance allowed women to believe it was OK… Fortunately we have the technology and the information Now!… Unfortunately we have those who choose to remain ignorant and refuse to take a look! AND we have those who know full well what they are doing. Abortion is a convenient accessible procedure for those who want a legal way out of a situation they neglected to protect them self from!… It is not a RIGHT! It is a choice and it is Legal!

Thankyou lik maybe now he will get it.

Zsa, I have never seen the new ultrasound needle things but when I was pregnant with my baby I got a whole bunch of 4D images of her it was amazing. My first picture of her was at 8 weeks and she had little nubs for arms and legs and they were flapping around like she was trying to swim, I was very scared at the time because of my young age and not very excited about being pregnant more scared and confused but after I saw my daughter begining to form I fell in love. If more people would take the time to think about first an alternative to abortion and second realize that there is a baby living inside of them and they are their life source and reponsiblity. To just rid a life and the government oks it is just beyond me i hope in the furture people will look at this issue as murdering a child. Like the Holly Ashcraft case, she is accused of killing her newborn baby born at 32 weeks gestaion, if she were to have an abortion noone would even know about the case but to me it seems the same.

Gotta say I like zsa zsa spin on this. See the difference lik abortion is currently legal your other examples are currently illegal as long as laws are not broken my personal beliefs do not matter. I tend to vote for pro-lifers by the way.

See the difference lik abortion is currently legal your other examples are currently illegal as long as laws are not broken my personal beliefs do not matter.

The legality or illegality of the procedure is immaterial. The point was that your, "I will not force that upon somebody else" holds little merit in this debate.

Dude last one. I was aksed again why I thought something was right or OK which I had never stated I was just saying that I personally do not support abortion but wil not judge somebody else for holding the opposite view you know kind of exactly the opposite of you. Half of the time you do not even debate my friend you pull one little snipet out of a post throw something that really means nothing on it ask the previous poster to prove something and then tell them why they should not post.

No one is going to tell me what my wife and I can or cannot do if she becomes pregnant.  If, for reasons that satisfy us and no one else, we decide to terminate the pregnancy, we will use the method safest for my wife’s health and well-being.  Anyone who may attempt to interfere with my family and our decision better bring that Pretty Young Thing in lik’s avatar with them.

modern if you did not want someones opinion on the issue you probably not post noone said what you can or cannot do. by the way dont you mean terminate the baby.

Yes, i’m all in favor of kicking down doors when a man or a woman is about to murder their child.  Even yours MI.

Hey, have a sexy opinion party, great.  Fair warning.

Got one with your name on it, Marty.

Got one with your name on it, Marty.

Which means you have a total of two.  One for me, and one for Junior.  That’s a lot of blood on your hands friend.

Then off to jail you need to go Marty becaue what you propose is illegal when does it become OK for others to kick your door in when they do not like your choices. Let he who hath no sin cast the first stone.

All i propose is making abortion as illegal as murder—because that is what it is.  Cops routinely kick in doors to protect the innocent from their killers, and i would expect the same to be true here.

Then make it illegal, but what you were proposing was for you to be able to kick the door in not the cops which by the way would need a warrant or at the very least probable ‘cause. Justme here but where I live the cops do not commonly kick doors in for murder or a bunch of other crimes for that matter.

Marty wrote: 

Yes, i’m all in favor of kicking down doors when a man or a woman is about to (have an abortion).

Then you are a terrorist. Good day!

He said GOOD DAY sir. Fez cracks me up I for one am glad his Mommy did not abort him.

The abortion debate is a no win situation what ever side of the issue you are on. Until people stop being centered on themselves (legal or not) abortion will continue… When politics became so well acquainted with the abortion issue was when the "Right" of the "fetus" was extinguished. ABORTION is not a Right… The fetus inside the mother has a God given Right to life! AND the Constitution provides the fetus with that Right… However, Lawyers, judges, politicians etc. have taken away the Right of the "fetus"… The United States Supreme Court decided that the "fetus" doesn’t have that Right! The arguement should really be focused on what the Constitution provides for each of us??? In defence of the Supreme Court ruling. When they decided this, judges were provided what was believed to be accurate medical and scientific data! That information was based on ideology and what the medical world claimed was a mass of tissue or a blob of cells… TODAY we know better.??? Today with all the technology we have with fertilization, abortion should be outlawed!...But Abortion is a BIG MONEY MAKING machine and those individuals who profit off of it are not going to release it so easily! For those who want the "CHOICE" to terminate a pregnancy in my opinion they will have to live with that "CHOICE"…

Constitutional Law by Zsa Zsa.

Jeebus. RvW is about the right of privacy between doctor and patient. Abortion is a medical procedure that has exsisted, in one form or another, for a very long time. It will continue to exsist. Government funding and advocation are the major problem. That is the fulcrum upon which this whole arguement teeters.

Constitutional Law is what the entire argument is about!… The Democratic Party is fixated on Abortion and the so called RIGHT to choose. The entire issue of abortion is an emotional heated debate because of what the Constitution provides us all. It has nothing to do with what I personally believe or not. It was once believed that up until the 3rd. trimester that the mother was not doing anything other than removing a mass of tissue. Today it is Legal for a women to have an abortion up until she delivers in the 9th month in some States. I know Witchita Kansas will gladly perform an abortion during the 9th month for extra money! The Constitution is what the debate is about! It has been over shadowed by emotional feelings of when life begins.??? Interesting enough is that women can legally have an abortion up untill the last second. BUT… If a women delivers her baby and dumps it in the trash she is taken to jail??? I am not a fan of Abortion but as I said before it is legal. I believe abortions would be performed even if it wasn’t legal! CONSTITUTIONALLY this issue is and should be challenged whether I Like it or Not!

 Today it is Legal for a women to have an abortion up until she delivers in the 9th month in some States.

Which ones?

Dave,… I know of two States Kansas and Colorado!

Wow Zsa I had no that in those states you could get an abortion nine months into a pregnancy. that is heavy wow i am in shock here. I really hope that noone really does that do you know that statistics??

Doc,… I love the history lesson! Thank you so much ... Alicia, and Dave,… I know of a Planned Parenthood Clinic in Wichita Kansas that will perform abortions up untill delivery! I have a friend who had an abortion in Colorado Springs who was 8 months along and her Father forced her to get an abortion! She was 16 and he was freaked out and he took her and she felt like she had to do it… I don’t know what the statistics are on those??? I hope not many!!!…

Insane I feel for her. I can not imagine that late in a pregnancy you can like feel and see the baby move and if you have been to the docter you probably have pictures and know the sex I cant grasp that. Where I live some but not all docters will do it past 3 months and i thought that was a far along to have an abortion. My friend also had an abortion just last year actually i was very sad for that child, just before she did it i found out i was pregnant i hoped she would change her mind because she was just scared so i thought maybe it would make it easier since she wouldn’t be alone unfortunatly she still went through with it. It was sad becuase she knew she was pregnant but still drank alcohol so noone would suspect anything.

Insane I feel for her.

Yoda she sounds like. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Yoda she sounds like

What does that mean?????

Yoda?  From Star Wars?

He talked like that.

Sorry, it is just a joke.  Not meaning it as an insult or anything. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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My friend had a little basketball looking tummy and had a name for him!...The baby was a boy. I got home from boarding school and asked her what she had? A boy or a girl? She said a boy. BUT her Fu##$$## father made her get an abortion!… I was dumbfounded and taken back! That was 30 years ago… She ended up not being able to have babies ever because of that abortion. She also married my step brother and to this day doesn’t forgive her father! Really sad situation. BUT it is Legal...!

I know of a Planned Parenthood Clinic in Wichita Kansas that will perform abortions up untill delivery!

Call the cops, they’re breaking the law. It is illegal to perform abortions that late. Alert the authorities. Unless you’re making this up, or you don’t care about it, you should do so immediately… And I know it’s not the latter…

Laws against abortion were not passed until the mid-1800s  largely promoted by doctors and the AMA.

One of the major reasons doctors pushed to have abortion laws was to increase their own profits.  Originally nurse midwives performed many different medical procedures, but one of their biggest ones was abortions.  By outlawing abortions, nurse midwives were put out of business, allowing doctors to take over all their other medical procedures and in turn increasing their own business and creating a monopoly on medicine.  The safety and moral issues were just a cover to mask their true intentions.

Many women died in childbirth.  I suspect that having an abortion was a very very dangerous thing to have.

 As far as I know there’s no law against cutting your own arm off with a chainsaw (like Ash).  The consequences of the act are worse than the punishment.

It is hard to speak comprehensively about abortion in a brief note. I guess I am trying to say the following: the Supreme Court based its abortion decisions starting with Roe on faulty knowledge of the status of the developing baby and the poorly reasoned creation of a "right to privacy" that does not appear in the Constitution. Under existing decisions, late term abortions, including partial birth abortions, are legal IN ALL STATES. Various states have passed restrictions on abortions, including a Kansas ban on late term abortions except where the life of the mother is in danger, but the federal courts, including the Supremes, have invalidated most of them, using the precedence of the Roe line of cases. Only very mild restrictions on abortions, such as parental notification laws in the case of minor abortion seekers, have been upheld. That is why I say abortion in all forms is legal. But just because something is legal doesn’t make it right, and I think if women knew about the early development of the unborn child, and could see it in the womb, there would be a huge decrease in the procedure. Plus if the Supremes would revisit the so-called science they relied on to find for Roe, one major linchpin of this line of cases would be removed and this precedent would collapse. But although I would love to see Roe be overturned, this still would not mean States would not be able to reasonably regulate abortions, including allowing them in the early stages of pregnancy.

Abortions have come into the mainstream because of a PR campaign launched by the pro-abortion advocates long ago.  Obviously, offing an unborn child is not a very savory thing to advocate for...so they cast the issue as a "woman’s rights" issue, as though it were on par with the suffrage movement from several decades before.

In effect, they made the issue all about the women.  The unborn child doesn’t matter, and certainly the man in the situation doesn’t matter.  And that’s wrong.  Because the child is a part of it.  And so is the man, as the child is just as much his as it is the mother’s.

But they pro-abortion crowd have been very effeciting in re-shaping the issue.

It actually sort of reminds me of how, a few decades back, all these studies came out about how daycares were really better for your kid then just keeping them at home until it was time to go to school.  They came out with nonsense about kids getting exposed to more diseases in daycares therefore they’d build up a better tolerance to illness.  Which was all total crap.  It had nothing to do with daycares and the betterment of the child and everything to do with assuaging the guilty consciences of mothers (and to a lesser extent fathers) who left their children to be raised by strangers as they went to work.

Now I’m not saying that mothers shouldn’t necessarily work.  My mother worked when I was a kid, but lets not pretend that sending a kid off to a daycare is better then that kid being with his parent(s). 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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 My mother worked when I was a kid, but lets not pretend that sending a kid off to a daycare is better then that kid being with his parent(s). 

I don’t know about that.  It seems to me that a certain amount of daycare (maybe a few hours a week) is a good thing for children.  They learn important social skills and become acquanted with a classroom setting.  Obviously it depends on what type of day care facility.  The ones that are set up as a preschool definately can help facilitate learning.  Heck my one friend even learned a second language from attending a day care that spent half of the day speaking a different language.

But I definately agree with you that parents aren’t spending enough time with their children.  I grew up in a home where both my parents worked long hours and took frequent business trips (my mother used to take 2 week trips to China and Europe quite frequently), so I know the negative consequences of being disproportionately diconnected from your kids.

Right, Andrew.  I’m not saying that daycares are bad, just refuting the idea that they are inherently better than a kid staying with his parents.

Kids start school at 5 or 6.  They have plenty of time to learn interaction and class room settings over the next decade or so of education they’ll receive.  Why not let them spend some time with mommy and daddy? 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Why does Alicia get to be Yoda?… I never get to be Yoda! Uh oh! Sorry guys… BUT when my mom dropped me off for kindergarten, I would ditch school and go play in the desert. I am an example of why kids should have structure. (That is a true story)

Yoda, NOW i get it! I agree that parents do not spend enough time with there childeren. I used to work in a daycare and some kids would be there 9 hours a day 5 days a week it was pretty sad they knew us better than they knew there own parents. Andrew your friend must have went to a good daycare, some unfortunatly do not run like that they dont watch kids properly and that ends up in lost kids or even worse. Daycares should definatly be closer monitored

Zsa Zsa,   I like the points about choice.  The choice happens well before the other choice to have intercourse. Alicia,  Yes, people should think well before they make choices.  Spending time with your own children should be a first priority.  I have seen it and lived it also.  The children know and see what their parents value. 

Zsa Zsa: Have you notified the authorities yet, about the Planned Parenthood clinic that was breaking the law? I would, but I don’t have any problems with what they did. You do. So…

For reference, the reason that anti-abortion laws were passed only in the 1800s was because prior to Malthus, abortion was pretty much unthinkable except for those who practiced the world’s original profession.  To lose a child and risk lethal infection and/or bleeding  was just ludicrous to people prior to that age.

Robert Perry, I hate to have to tell you, but you are incorrect.  Abortion has been around since at least the time of the Ancient Greeks.  They didn’t have surgical methods, but physical methods and herbs were used.

Surprisingly, one of the most comprehensive herbal recipe books for pre-coital contraception and post-coital contraception (abortion) was written by a man who became pope. Peter of Spain, who offered advice on birth control and how to provoke menstruation (abortion) in his immensely popular Thesaurus Pauperam (Treasure of the Poor), was elected Pope John XXI in 1276. Many of Peter’s recipes have been found surprisingly effective by contemporary research, and it is believed that women in antiquity had more control over their reproduction than previously believed.

And for everyone who thinks Planned Parenthood is making a profit on abortions, that is incorrect.  Planned Parenthood is a non-profit charitable organization, 503(c)(3), which would not be able to operate without its volunteers.  They provide many other services to women besides abortions.  In fact, without Planned Parenthood, there ar many poor women who would have no pre-natal care at all.

Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger who worked her entire life to help save the lives of women who had no other choice than backalley or "do it yourself" abortions.  Many women died in her arms because abortion was illegal.  I think she would be thrilled if we found a better solution that works for everyone.

But just making something illegal doesn’t put an end to it.  Otherwise, there would be no illicit drug problem.

Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger who worked her entire life to help save the lives of women who had no other choice than backalley or "do it yourself" abortions.

I can think of another choice! Can you?

Many women died in her arms because abortion was illegal.

What are their names? I smell bullshit with this claim.

But just making something illegal doesn’t put an end to it.

Nobody is claiming that it does. What it does do, however, is to make it less likely to happen.

Hatlady, I concede that herbal infanticide has been around for a long time, but for most, abortion was unthinkable because it ended the life of a wanted child and also exposed the mother to infection via massive hemhorrage.  Unless you had a profession to maintain, it was pretty much unthinkable.  That’s why the Romans did postnatal infanticide instead of prenatal.

And your story about Sanger?  Complete garbage.  Sanger was not pro-abortion at all, and said no such thing as you allege.  The choice Sanger actually promoted was contraception for "lesser races," meaning nonwhites.  For this, she received the adulation of none less than Adolph Hitler--and returned it, by the way.

There’s your "heroine."

hatlady, Margret Sanger advocated controlling the population of"undesirables" through birthcontrol and abortion. She was no heroine, she was a selfish Elitist who wrapped herself in the false banner of helping the downtrodden. Her point was to keep the downtrodden in their place, beneath her.

I am not pro-choice nor pro-life but I was just wondering what each of your feelings are towards women having abortions who have been raped?  I do not believe in abortion as a birth control ( meaning oops I’m pregnant, I’ll fix that with an abortion ).  But should someone who did not have the choice of getting pregnant not have the choice to have an abortion in the very early stages of pregnancy?  ( By the way I think that late term abortions are horrid ) Or should they need to wake up everyday being reminded of a horrible happening in their life?
Also I fear that if abortion is made entirely illegal that we will face women (especially young girls) attempting to perform abortions at home by forced miscarriage and either hurting themselves or the fetus. 
There are also times in which the fetus could be under developed/disabled because of drug use etc.  ie. a friend of mine found out she was pregnant by her cocaine dealing boyfriend, she herself was doing meth and cocaine, as well as smoking 2 packs a day, she was 16 at the time and an extremely unfit mother, the boyfriend was extremely unstable, and even held a gun to her head when he found out she was pregnant. 

Is this a situation you want a baby in?  Sure adoption is an option, but what would the health of the baby be like by delivery?

I would like to here your comments.

I am not pro-choice nor pro-life…

How is that possible?  Either you think it’s OK to kill innocents for birth control purposes or you don’t.  What’s the middle ground?

To give my answer to your “rape” question, I think it’s unfortunate for the innocent child to have to pay for the sin of someone else.  You might also allow that your love for your baby might be strong enough to relieve you of your anger at the rapist.  Maybe, maybe not, but if you find your anger insurmountable, you can find some parents to adopt it.
As far as the drug dealing couple are concerned, the child is essentially paying for their sins, isn’t it?
Don’t underestimate the love of a childless couple for a child in any condition.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Jennifer...My sister had a handicapped baby. We would not have traded her for the world. The doctors said she would not be alive by morning. She lived to be 8 years old. There is a waiting list for adoption of down syndrome babies. Many people are eager to adopt crack babies too. Being pregnant is not really a choice as far as I am concerned. Rape or not.