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Sunday, July 06, 2008

Are Disgruntled Conservatives Backing Obama?

The San Francisco Chronicle has a feature article alleging a phenomena that has conservatives - disgruntled after eight years of Bush, a lackluster Republican-led Congress and the nomination of a lackluster candidate in John McCain - supporting Obama.

Personally, I can go along with the whole “disgruntled conservative” meme.  Aside from Bush’s tax cuts, federal court appointments and his foreign policy I don’t think there’s been a lot Bush has done right from a conservative perspective.  He exacerbated the already dire entitlement spending situation by passing a prescription drug entitlement.  He trampled the principles of federalism with No Child Left Behind and other initiatives.  In short, his administration has been a mixed bag for conservatives.

The Republican Congress has been similarly lackluster.  Spiraling spending?  Growing government?  An unwillingness to take up prickly issues, instead leaving those issues to be solved through the judicial activism of the courts?  There’s a reason why the GOP is in the minority in Congress.

And do we really need to talk about John McCain, who has made a career in the Senate out of thumbing his nose at the conservative base?

So yes, conservatives are ticked off.  They’re not excited about lining up behind McCain, and many probably won’t line up behind him at all.  But will these disgruntled conservatives (and libertarians too) really choose to line up behind Barack “Let’s Double The Capital Gains Tax” Obama?  A man who has given campaign speeches where he mentions that America is losing standing in the world because we drive SUV’s and set our thermostats too high?

Conservatives and/or libertarians who would vote for Barack Obama cannot, by definition, be conservatives or libertarians.  Because being those things means a belief in the principles of limited government and individualism, and Obama represents neither.

I think many reporters would like to think that rampant dissatisfaction with John McCain and the GOP means defections to Obama’s side, but it’s just not so.  Any conservative or libertarian who claims to be supporting Obama probably wasn’t much of a conservative or a libertarian to begin with.

Comments

I don’t believe it either, why would a true conservative no matter how disgruntled he is vote for a Marxist like Obama. Also, a candidate who is going to spend like a drunken sailor. I don’t see it. Add to the fact that Obama is flip flopped so many times he makes Kerry look consistent.


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goon on July 6, 2008 at 08:08 pm
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I know many Conservative and the last thing on their agenda is to back Obama! While many are ‘luke warm’ on McCain, not a single one of them has gone insane!

Lee S Gliddon Jr on July 6, 2008 at 08:09 pm
Avatar for Nuking Idiocy Every Tuesday

The time is long past when we should take seriously anything the so-called MSM says about anything.
Q: How can you tell when Obama is lying? 
A: His lips are moving!
Q: How can you tell when the MSM is lying?
A: The printing presses are running!

Y, the MSM is like a stopped clock, permanently chiming the leftist pro-Obama tune.  Like a stopped clock, they are right twice a day but good luck figuring out when that is (maybe the weather forecast.)

Nuking Idiocy Every Tuesday on July 6, 2008 at 08:17 pm

Couldn’t happen. Wouldn’t be prudent.

Good Ol Boy on July 6, 2008 at 08:24 pm

Where they are wrong is stating that they (we) will back Barry.  Not.  Sit out perhaps, but we will not ever vote for this liberal.

More of someone trying to make news instead of printing what happened.

atease


atease

atease on July 6, 2008 at 08:54 pm
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This conservative won’t be voting for Obama or McCain…

brenarlo on July 6, 2008 at 09:01 pm

We have plenty of conservatives to vote for in Congress.
The Presidency is lost to us, no matter which leftie wins.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:13 pm

Of the 23 gop seats up for re-election, which of them is now held by a 108 conservative?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 6, 2008 at 09:21 pm
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Because being those things means a belief in the principles of limited government and individualism

Things like limiting goverment spending on wars with negative ROI and the individuals right to have their needs subjugated to executive authority?

Carnival of Politics on July 6, 2008 at 09:30 pm
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robert108,

Vote for Bob Barr.

Nunez on July 6, 2008 at 09:34 pm

Things like limiting goverment spending on wars with negative ROI War is not an “investment”; it’s an expense of maintaining freedom and sovereignty.  The only negative outcome is to lose.  Duh. and the individuals right to have their needs subjugated to executive authority?  We can avoid that by rejecting Obama and his Marxism.

Nice to see another refugee from DK.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:46 pm

Nunez: I don’t vote for liberaltarians.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:47 pm
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Fascism on one side and Marxism on the other side - if you go too far Left or too far Right you end up loosing your liberty.

Carnival of Politics on July 6, 2008 at 09:58 pm
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Things like limiting goverment spending on wars with negative ROI and the individuals right to have their needs subjugated to executive authority?

Funny how war spending, which is a fraction of our overall budget deficit, is always the first thing to get brought up.

It’s entitlements that are going to bring this country down fiscally, not the war in Iraq.

Fascism on one side and Marxism on the other side - if you go too far Left or too far Right you end up loosing your liberty.

Fascism isn’t all that different from socialism.  With socialism, the government controls the economy (the “means of production").  With fascism, the private sector owns the means of production but the government basically dictates how those means can be used, and which companies/factions get to control them.

I think you’d do well, Carnival, to learn a bit more about the words you use before you use them.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 6, 2008 at 10:04 pm

108, didja come up with an answer yet?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 6, 2008 at 10:10 pm

HAH,,hah..ha....hah...hah...aha...ahahhahah..snort...ehehehehe...let me wipe the tears from my eyes. When did the SF Chronical get into writing comedy.


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richNJ on July 6, 2008 at 10:29 pm
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Fascism isn’t all that different from socialism.  With socialism, the government controls the economy (the “means of production").  With fascism, the private sector owns the means of production but the government basically dictates how those means can be used, and which companies/factions get to control them.

That was my point.

Carnival of Politics on July 6, 2008 at 10:41 pm

That was my point.

You said they were opposite ends, but they’re in fact the same end of the spectrum. Communism is just a more radical version of socialism than Fascism is.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on July 6, 2008 at 11:33 pm

It’s more likely that disgruntled conservatives will vote for a 3rd party candidate or not vote than they would vote for Obama.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on July 7, 2008 at 02:42 am

This is one disgruntled conservative who would rather pound a nail nto his forehead with the heel of his shoe than vote for Obama.

Sadly, the same applies to McCain. He’s simply the lesser of two banalities. I would use a smaller nail.

We’re screwed.


The future ain’t what it used to be.....

Pilgrim on July 7, 2008 at 04:59 am

We’re screwed.

That generalizes to the whole population except the elites.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 7, 2008 at 05:27 am
Avatar for Halatbis

I may be disappointed with McCain, but I am not going stupid with Obama. I think he is Jimmy Carter all over again.  Half the Democrats will do all they can to torpedo him.

Halatbis on July 7, 2008 at 06:43 am
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I’d rather see a Democrat in office than another RINO.  It will be easier to defeat amnesty and global warming legislation as the loyal opposition than it would to defeat those plans if they come from McCain.  Plus, I don’t want to hear the caterwauls from the liberals if Obama is defeated (ostensibly because “America is still racist” or some such.  We survived Carter and Clinton.  We can survive Obama.

nash on July 7, 2008 at 07:24 am

It’s entitlements that are going to bring this country down fiscally, not the war in Iraq.

It’s time to declare the war on poverty lost. Of course in the not so long run most of those that otherwise would be in poverty will be out of it.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on July 7, 2008 at 07:33 am
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No.
I can’t, in good conscience, vote for Obama or McCain.  I will vote for a third candidate or write one in.

Just like Betancourt, when she was running for office in Colombia, called both of the political parties corrupt, I feel the same way about the Republicans and Democrats.

I don’t feel I was given a choice in this election and I won’t make my vote a seal of approval for either one.  I am now registered as an Independent and will continue on this course until our “corrupt” political process is changed or until we become a North American Union, along with Canada and Mexico, and the sovereignty of my nation is already lost.

Many of our politicians are “post” Americans and care nothing for the Constitution or the will of the people.  They are giving us to powerful corporations, foreign investments and the elite who are busy siphoning off the wealth and the infrastructure of this nation.

Wealth knows no “national identity” and they prefer to make us a trade bloc instead of a nation.

S. Nicholson on July 7, 2008 at 08:37 am

Are Disgruntled Conservatives Backing Obama?

No.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 7, 2008 at 08:38 am

It’s time to declare the war on poverty lost.

The real “war on poverty” is the free enterprise economic system, along with freedom from govt interference.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 7, 2008 at 08:41 am

I don’t want to hear the caterwauls from the liberals if Obama is defeated (ostensibly because “America is still racist” or some such.

Nash,

You are afraid of being called “racist” by liberals?  What a pitifully craven admission that is? 

Yes, we “survived” Carter and Clinton, but in each case the liberals’ statist, anti-free market, anti-liberty agenda was advanced all that much further.  Besides, whether this country can actually survive even 4 years with a self-acknowledged appeaser like Obama heading up our national security and military efforts, directing (God help us!) our country’s economic and tax policy, and appointing at least 2 and possible 4 Supreme Court justices, not to mention lower level federal judiciary members, is an open question.

Perhaps a few simple questions will put things in clearer perspective for you.  Ask yourself, what are Obama and the Democrats prepared to do to foster economic growth?  Answer: Nothing!  What are Obama and the Democrats prepared to do to increase our nation’s supply of domestically-produced energy?  Answer: Nothing!  What are Obama and the Democrats prepared to do the ensure that Iran, the world’s leading supporter of Islamist terrorism, does NOT acquire a nuclear weapons capability?  Answer: Nothing!

Finally, how many more such questions will it take for you to shed your smug cynicism and actually DO something instead of whining about the situation?


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on July 7, 2008 at 08:44 am
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There is about as much chance that a disgruntled conservative would back Obama as there is that Obama that Obama would back them.  We need to consider the source on stuff like this, which is not worthy of comment.  Disgruntled Republians--well, that might be another story.

Tuna on July 7, 2008 at 10:08 am

Are Disgruntled Conservatives Backing Obama?

Yes


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 7, 2008 at 02:28 pm

108, did I miss your great list of 108-cons you claim to have plenty of or are are you still working on it?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 7, 2008 at 05:17 pm

I don’t know about any of you, but I’m a Conservative and still have my gruntles.  Which, by definition, means I won’t be voting for Obama.

It’s no secret that I won’t be voting for the Soros- controlled, loose cannon, Amnesty-for-Illegals, Cap-and-Trade, RINO McCain either.

Party line vote for what Conservatives remain and will work to get Conservatives in in 2010. The Dims will have 2008 to 2010 in the public spotlight, Californicating the USA.  By voting time 2010, even the most isolated mouthbreather will realize that the Dims cannot be trusted in government.

I’d rather have Obama inherit the total goat-rope our economy will be devolving into in the coming months and let the MSM try to squirm out of that one by blaming the dirty rotten Republicans, who won’t even be in power.


...for great justice

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Move_Zig on July 8, 2008 at 12:05 am

No names yet 108?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 8, 2008 at 04:47 am
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let the MSM try to squirm out of that one by blaming the dirty rotten Republican

Easy! They go: Oh, no! We knew it was bad, but we didn’t think it was this bad. Please take some more draconian steps to fix it!



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Proof on July 8, 2008 at 04:55 am
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Not hardly.

Gary Gulrud on July 8, 2008 at 08:20 am

Kinda hoping to read a true red 108-con list.

108, you claimed to have plenty of cons to vote for, who are they?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 8, 2008 at 03:29 pm

I never spoke of any “list”.  You just made that up, like you usually do.

108, you claimed to have plenty of cons to vote for, I did no such thing. who are they?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 8, 2008 at 04:42 pm

We have plenty of conservatives to vote for in Congress.
The Presidency is lost to us, no matter which leftie wins.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 08:13 pm


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 8, 2008 at 04:57 pm

108, you claimed to have plenty of cons to vote for, who are they?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 8, 2008 at 04:58 pm

108, you claimed to have plenty of cons to vote for, who are they?

What’s your “need to know”?  Can’t you figure anything out for yourself?  Go ask your mommy and daddy for help.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 8, 2008 at 05:12 pm

Personal attack of the opponent, on various levels;

Unsupported claims of intellectual superiority, thus entitling them to a “win” with no facts or logic;

Changing the subject;

Blaming others;

Justifying their own bad behavior with the claim of bad behavior on the part of others;

Appeal to authority, usually with misquotes, mischaracterizations or cherry-picked, out of context snippets.

etc, etc....

Most of this is quite common on the blogosphere.

R108

108, you seem to have a problem giving us a few names of 108-approved cons?
So much huff and puff ending with your signature whimper.

My count has 23 senate seats and well over 100 congressional gop seats up for re election.

Who are the cons you claim to have plenty of?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 8, 2008 at 05:26 pm

108, you seem to have a problem giving us a few names of 108-approved cons?

Actually, you seem to have a problem understanding that I never claimed to furnish you with any sort of list.  You are making things up, and are thus all alone, whining for my attention, as usual.
I think most of the convicts are in your Party.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 8, 2008 at 05:57 pm

Actually, you seem to have a problem understanding that I asked you to furnish a list. 

You are making things up, and are thus all alone, sniveling under the burden of your lies, as usual.

I think most of the convicts are in your Party.

You claimed that there are plenty of cons to vote for.

We have plenty of conservatives to vote for in Congress.
The Presidency is lost to us, no matter which leftie wins.

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 08:13 pm

Do any of them have names?

What are they?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 8, 2008 at 06:20 pm

Actually, you seem to have a problem understanding that I asked you to furnish a list.

I have no such problem; you seem to have a problem understanding that you aren’t entitled to anything from me.  I never promised you any list, and have no interest in playing your little bating game.  You will have to go elsewhere for your sick need for attention.
Ask your mommy and daddy to pay attention to you.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 8, 2008 at 09:13 pm

You’re a queer little man, 108.

If you don’t know the names of any of the ‘plenty of conservatives to vote for’ just say so.


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 9, 2008 at 06:00 am

You’re a queer little man, 108.

That’s not an argument, rbb.  I have no obligation to tell you anything.  I made no argument about either names or numbers.  What’s “plenty” for me may be something else to you, but that is of no significance to me.  Get your sick attention needs elsewhere.  Go ask your mommy and daddy for the attention you so desperately need.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 9, 2008 at 08:41 am

...When you cast aspersions on the other person’s character, that is an attack that has nothing to do with their reasoning; it just expresses anger toward someone who disagrees with you.  That is not an effective argument.

robert108 on September 27, 2006 at 02:30 am

108, who do you think are the con leaders in the congress today?

If you don’t know just say so.


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 9, 2008 at 08:49 am

No names, huh 108?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on July 9, 2008 at 02:22 pm

No names, huh 108?

I think you’re finally starting to catch on; no names for you!
Now go ask your mommy and daddy for the attention you need so much.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on July 9, 2008 at 04:48 pm
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