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Tuesday, March 25, 2008

Any Criticism Of Obama Is Racist

This is the kind of garbage analysis of race and elections that might lose the White House for the Dems:

When the controversy over Obama's former pastor Jeremiah Wright reached critical mass last week, it was the political equivalent of the green flag at a NASCAR race. The conservative strategists and talkers had been slowly circling the track, feet itchy on the accelerator, just waiting for the signal to floor it. But now, as The Politico reported in a story titled "GOP sees Rev. Wright as path to victory," the Republican strategists know exactly what must be done, starting with famed ad man Alex Castellanos:

"All the sudden you've got two dots, and two dots make a line," said Castellanos. "You start getting some sense of who he is, and it's not the Obama you thought. He's not the Tiger Woods of politics."

Got that? If you even hint that Obama is not as pure in thought and background as Tiger Woods, you are guilty of playing the Willie Horton card. The author of this piece, Paul Waldman, who is a 'senior fellow' at the execrable Media Matters then goes on to say this:

As Castellanos knows well, these kinds of attacks have their greatest power when they tap into pre-existing archetypes voters already carry with them, and the deeper they reside in our lizard brains the better. So they will make sure white Americans know that Obama is not Tiger Woods. He's not the unthreatening black man, he's the scary black man. He's Al Sharpton, he's Malcom X, he's Huey Newton. He'll throw grievance in your face, make you feel guilty, and who knows, maybe kill you and rape your wife.

For a guy who claims to be against 'hate' he sure has some hateful things to say about Republicans here. Of course none of it is true - where have conservatives been claiming that Obama is Malcolm X? The conservative critique of Obama over Wright is that Obama showed extremely poor judgment and taste in choosing this man as a pastor, and that Obama passively or tacitly agrees with Wright. I have not seen any conservatives arguing that Obama himself is another Wright or Malcom X. Waldman's perception and judgment on this matter is so skewed and warped, he can't even admit that it was the liberal MSM that opened up this can of worms for Obama, not the 'right-wing attack machine'. The American people right away saw for themselves what a fraud Obama is when he claims to be a racial healer while holding fast to his black racist preacher. Waldman needs to somehow blame white racism for all this, while refusing to recognize that it is black racism that is causing all of these problems for Obama.

Waldman comes up with a lot more silly liberal gibberish, basically amounting to "hey whitey, shut up, or we will tar you as a racist." And that is exactly what Waldman and Media Matters intend to do, because they are losing the argument here and losing it badly. They are desperate to somehow turn this Wright thing around. So they fling themselves into brainless liberal attack mode, which is to screech at anyone they disagree with in the hopes that their foe will slink away out of annoyance at the sheer noise of it all, and ultimately shame them into voting for Obama.

When are liberals ever going to learn that trying to scold someone into voting a certain way simply does not work?

Crossposted from Ken McCracken

Comments

But, But, NOT including him such critical opinions would be just as discriminating.
Therefore, I believe, this sorry ass racist dilemma falls under the, you’re damned if ya do and damned if ya don’t, clause and soooo ... he’s fair game, right along with the rest of us
smile


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Anna on March 25, 2008 at 10:16 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Of course none of it is true - where have conservatives been claiming that Obama is Malcolm X?

Well, on this site.  You really didn’t notice any of this type of categorizing?  Really?

The conservative critique of Obama over Wright is that Obama showed extremely poor judgment and taste in choosing this man as a pastor, and that Obama passively or tacitly agrees with Wright.

Who also gave an award to Malcom X, showing us that “they” are just like Malcom X and think like him.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fxAzg&feature=related

Don’t pretend different Kenny.  You know you guys were doing this.

I have not seen any conservatives arguing that Obama himself is another Wright or Malcom X.

Bullcrap!  The whole argument from you fellows is that Obama is a racist separatist who secretly agrees with Wright, who thinks Malcom X is swell.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fxAzg&feature=related

THAT...has been the point of over 75% of the articles about Wright/Obama.

Who is it you think you are kidding, aside from yourself?

Waldman’s perception and judgment on this matter is so skewed and warped, he can’t even admit that it was the liberal MSM that opened up this can of worms for Obama, not the ‘right-wing attack machine’.

Uh....yeah.  Thats why we have all of these posts criticizing the MSM for giving Obama a pass and being hypocritical, while Hannity and FOX goes on a witch hunt. 

Youve got to be kidding me brother.

The American people right away saw for themselves what a fraud Obama is when he claims to be a racial healer while holding fast to his black racist preacher.

A pastor and church who gave Malcom X an award. 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fxAzg&feature=related

Also, Obama explained his relationship, but none of you accepted it because you all said he cant stay in that church for 20 years without agreeing with the Malcom X loving, hate America spewing, anti-white racists.

Give me a break Kenny.  I have been fighting you guys on this FOR TWO WEEKS. 

He is exactly right.

Waldman needs to somehow blame white racism for all this, while refusing to recognize that it is black racism that is causing all of these problems for Obama.

WHOOP...THERE IT IS (racism like Malcom X you mean???).  Again, none of you guys have EVER proved racism in that church.  Every time I ask you guy to parse the Pastors statements you all run away.

Waldman comes up with a lot more silly liberal gibberish, basically amounting to “hey whitey, shut up, or we will tar you as a racist.”

Hahaha.  Which is VASTLY different from “Hey Obama, shut up...we know you are a racist because you went to that church for 20 years, who is racist and gave Malcom X an award.”

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fxAzg&feature=related

And that is exactly what Waldman and Media Matters intend to do, because they are losing the argument here and losing it badly.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

He is calling you guys out on your behavior.  But, just like a normal Republican, you are blaming your responsibility on other people and whining when they call you out on your behavior.  Pathetic.

So they fling themselves into brainless liberal attack mode, which is to screech at anyone they disagree with in the hopes that their foe will slink away out of annoyance at the sheer noise of it all, and ultimately shame them into voting for Obama

.

People dont vote that way.  The only thing they are doing is showing reasonable minded Americans what many of you are doing. 

We can’t help the words that come out of your mouths or the words you type on a keyboard.

Grow up.  Accept responsibility for your behavior.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 10:19 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Oh...im sorry...i meant Farrakhan....that other really non-racist guy that Republicans love so much.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 10:33 am

Well, on this site.  You really didn’t notice any of this type of categorizing?  Really?

Nope. Give me a link, and I will have seen it for the first time.

Don’t pretend different Kenny.  You know you guys were doing this.

You aren’t a mindreader, Hannitized. Don’t tell me what I know and don’t know.

Uh....yeah.  Thats why we have all of these posts criticizing the MSM for giving Obama a pass and being hypocritical, while Hannity and FOX goes on a witch hunt.

It was NBC that outed Wright, Hannitized.

Also, Obama explained his relationship, but none of you accepted it because you all said he cant stay in that church for 20 years without agreeing with the Malcom X loving, hate America spewing, anti-white racists.

Give me a break Kenny.  I have been fighting you guys on this FOR TWO WEEKS.

Nope. I have seen no item anywhere in which Obama ‘agrees’ with Malcolm X. I criticize Obama for his bad judgment in choosing Wright as his pastor.

WHOOP...THERE IT IS (racism like Malcom X you mean???).  Again, none of you guys have EVER proved racism in that church.  Every time I ask you guy to parse the Pastors statements you all run away.

Wright called rich whites his ‘enemies’. Pure, unadulterated racism. 

He is calling you guys out on your behavior.  But, just like a normal Republican, you are blaming your responsibility on other people and whining when they call you out on your behavior.  Pathetic.

Well he is simply wrong about our ‘behavior’.

People dont vote that way.  The only thing they are doing is showing reasonable minded Americans what many of you are doing.

We can’t help the words that come out of your mouths or the words you type on a keyboard.

Grow up.  Accept responsibility for your behavior.

Hannitized, it is perfectly reasonable and American to criticize Barack Obama, contrary to what you and your fellow travelers think.

That is what I think, and I take full responsibility for it.

Hannitized, you have utterly lost this argument.

Time to move on.

Ken McCracken on March 25, 2008 at 10:37 am

H:

The whole argument from you fellows is that Obama is a racist separatist who secretly agrees with Wright, who thinks Malcom X is swell.

Nobody is suggesting that, but Obama’s relationship with Wright is nonetheless disturbing.  To clarify, I won’t be voting for Obama and it has nothing to do with his association with Wright, but the fact that he was in the congregation for 20 years for somebody who is clearly a hate-mongerer is definitely bothersome to any of us who don’t think this country needs flushing down the toilet like you liberals appear to think.

I’m just curious how you explain that away.  I know your life is easier if you can blame all of the ills of the world on the Republicans, but exposure of this story didn’t start from the Right. In fact, it came from the mainstream press in spite of obvious attempts by editors of at least one major newspaper to suppress the story.

It is as I’ve said in the past, black liberation theology (or whatever phrase you want to call it today) has had a free pass.  Obama coming forward as a candidate who at some level subscribes to that philosophy has simply brought one of the seedier aspects of American thought into direct sunlight.

That sucks you since you’ve obviously put all of your hopes on this man for your next presidential candidate.  That’s what you get for selecting a candidate who isn’t well vetted.

Carrick on March 25, 2008 at 10:38 am

Heheheh, the ‘U.S. government created AIDS to kill blacks.’

Nope, nothing racist about that!

Ken McCracken on March 25, 2008 at 10:45 am

Got that? If you even hint that Obama is not as pure in thought and background as Tiger Woods, you are guilty of playing the Willie Horton card.

I can understand criticism of Obama and his relationship with Rev. Wright...I don’t buy all of it but I can understand and appreciate the concern and I don’t think expressing that concern is evidence of racism.

OTOH, calling out Republican strategists on racially based tactics isn’t the same thing as the sentence I quote above. The material quoted from Media Matters doesn’t even lead to the conclusion that Ken draws but is rather an example of over the top desperation IMO. Such tactics are as likely to boomerang onto Republicans as they are to highlight a weakness in Obama’s candidacy...again IMO of course.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on March 25, 2008 at 11:06 am
Avatar for Hannitized

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/obamas_crazy_pastor_puts_his_foot_in_his_mouth/

Some conservative critics say that Wright’s Black liberation theology promotes “a sort of racial exclusivity”.

During the course of the 2008 presidential campaign, Wright has also attracted controversy for his association with Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam.[11] Wright travelled to Libya with Farrakhan in the 1980s. In 2007, Wright addressed this by saying “When [Obama’s] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gadaffi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.”

There are plenty more if you want to look.  But the connection was to Farrakhan.  A much worse comparison.

It was NBC that outed Wright, Hannitized.

Well that is what news organizations are supposed to do.  But they didn’t editorialize it in the way Fox had/has/is.

The argument is HOW it is reported.  You should know this.

Wright called rich whites his ‘enemies’. Pure, unadulterated racism.

Again with the “changing the context game”???

He said: “He taught me, Jesus did.. how to love my enemies. Jesus taught me to love the hell out of my enemies. And not be reduced to their level of hatred, bigotry, and small mindedness.”

So how can he be racist for saying he loves his enemies, who have segregated him and not be reduced to their level of BIGOTRY and HATRED??

HOW?

Well he is simply wrong about our ‘behavior’.

How, I gave you two links.  One on the Farrakhan connection in video format and another from this site in written format? 

What.  More.  Do.  You.  Need?

Hannitized, it is perfectly reasonable and American to criticize Barack Obama, contrary to what you and your fellow travelers think.

Yes.  Absolutely.  But WHAT is the criticism?  See, this is where you loose the argument.

The criticisms that are reasonable can be explained away.  The criticisms that you guys like to make stick are phony....like your racism example.

Hannitized, you have utterly lost this argument.

Time to move on.

Pshaw......yeah.  Ok bud.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 11:11 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Heheheh, the ‘U.S. government created AIDS to kill blacks.’

Ummm....what if a white person thinks the same thing?  Because here is a big surprise for you genius.  There are!!

You see, you guys dont know what racism is.

Racism has many definitions, the most common being that members of one racial group consider themselves intrinsically superior to members of other racial groups. Racism inherently starts with the assumption that there are taxonomic differences between different groups of people. Without this assumption, prejudices against different peoples would be catagorised as being prejudices related to national or regional origin, religion, occupation, social status or some other distinction.

Keep em comin.  Disassembling your lame arguments give me satisfaction to no end.

Bring it.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 11:17 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Let me explain it to you with more words, Ken.  Because that is what it is going to take for you.  Small words, preferably spelled in crayon..I am sure.

A person who believes in a conspiracy theory is not the same thing as a racist.  Because the conspiracy believer subscribes to the idea that a particular race is targeted is also not “racism”.  Rather it is hypersensitivity TO racism.

Again.  Keep them coming, I enjoy exposing the weakness in your argument.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 11:21 am

Ummm....what if a white person thinks the same thing?  Because here is a big surprise for you genius.  There are!!

Jesse Jackson said he feared young black men on the street. This was not considered racist. Obama’s grandmother said she feared young black men on the street, and because she was white Obama said this was racist.

Your analogy fails.

Keep em comin.  Disassembling your lame arguments give me satisfaction to no end.

Bring it.

Hannitized, you aren’t nearly as good at breaking down these arguments as you think you are.

Ken McCracken on March 25, 2008 at 11:25 am

He said: “He taught me, Jesus did.. how to love my enemies. Jesus taught me to love the hell out of my enemies. And not be reduced to their level of hatred, bigotry, and small mindedness.”

Yep, and in doing so he damned every single rich white person not because of anything they’ve done, but simply because they have money and white skin.

It’s racism, pure and simple.

Ken McCracken on March 25, 2008 at 11:27 am

Let me explain it to you with more words, Ken.  Because that is what it is going to take for you.  Small words, preferably spelled in crayon..I am sure.

You know what, stop the childish condescension game. It isn’t funny, and it makes you look like a dork.

If you want to have a serious conversation about this, just drop the stupid personal attacks.

Ken McCracken on March 25, 2008 at 11:33 am
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what if a white person thinks the same thing?  Because here is a big surprise for you genius.  There are!!

They wear tinfoil hats and no one takes them seriously! (Much like Spamatized, in fact!)



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Proof on March 25, 2008 at 11:34 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Jesse Jackson said he feared young black men on the street.

Kenny.  What school did you graduate from?

Please look up the word Racism, then look up the word prejudice.  Then combine racial and prejudice and then compare those two to the word racism by itself.

You make me wonder what is happening to the American school system.  Either you have no understanding of what racism is, or your ability to combine words in order to change meanings is non-existent.

Obama’s grandmother said she feared young black men on the street, and because she was white Obama said this was racist.

Thats a lie.  No surprise coming from you.  Here is what Obama, really said:

“… .. The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn’t.

Here....let me spell it out for you in crayons (video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8sAKjwp7Vo

Hannitized, you aren’t nearly as good at breaking down these arguments as you think you are.

Maybe not, but I am 10 times better at this than you believe I am.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 11:48 am
Avatar for Hannitized

They wear tinfoil hats and no one takes them seriously! (Much like Spamatized, in fact!)

Very good Gilligan, you get a biscuit.

Now, with that said....ITS STILL NOT RACISM.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 11:49 am

Well, you have shown that you are incapable of arguing this in a rational, halfway civil or effective way, so . . .

Bye bye, Hannitized.

See you at my next post exposing Obama.

Ken McCracken on March 25, 2008 at 11:52 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Yep, and in doing so he damned every single rich white person not because of anything they’ve done, but simply because they have money and white skin.

Youre lying again.  WHERE, WHEN?

You are combining two separate speeches and changing context.

God damned America - 2003

Jesus taught me to love my enemies - 2008 or 2007.

Keep it coming.  You are a loosing this big time!

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 11:53 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Well, you have shown that you are incapable of arguing this in a rational, halfway civil or effective way, so . . .

My apologies.  It is hard to have a rational argument with someone who you believe is deliberately lying to you in order to make an argument.

It’s hard to keep your composure when someone continually takes statements out of context, combines sentences from other speeches to condemn someone else.

Excuse me for allowing my disgust for that type of behavior to get in the way.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 11:58 am

Mike Adamson:

OTOH, calling out Republican strategists on racially based tactics isn’t the same thing as the sentence I quote above

I don’t see that.  Unless you want to blame Republicans for Obama attending what amounts to a racist church, then it’s pretty hard to construct a logical argument from this that doesn’t strongly resemble a pretzel.

As to desperation:  Don’t be silly.  The Republicans have plenty of better ammo than this, starting with Obama’s socialistic policies, in addition to some things I strongly disapprove of (e.g., his plans to gut R&D).  I won’t vote for him precisely because of that, not because of the church that he attended.

The only people who should be desperate right now are the Democrats, for once again selecting a lousy candidate to run for office.  He’s looking more and more like Mondale the second to me.

Carrick on March 25, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Whenever people begin to speak The Truth, liberals run.  Listen.  I am not, have not and will not accept any problems from past injustices against any group I had nothing to do with.  I do feel guilt from my government when they left the Hungarians out to dry in 1956-57 after broadcasting on radio free europe that they should oppose their oppressors.  The number of people killed after the Soviets came into Budapest pales in comparison to all that were killed here in the US for all the centuries that slavery was still legal.  That did not include the millions killed in the Civil War here.  That still does not account for the fact that black slavery, selling negroes in Africa still exists.  Is it still racism in Africa to sell slaves or does it only count if someone with different color skin does it?
Obama, in my opinion is very weak on patriotism, freedom and ability to defend our country from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.  He is way too close to communists as well as anarchists.  It has nothing to do with whatever race he claims or people perceive.  His being a member of a church that preaches the racist hate does trouble me.  No way would I remain a member of a church like that, but maybe he sees the world quite differently.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Avatar for Reverse_Vampyr

When are liberals ever going to learn that trying to scold someone into voting a certain way simply does not work?

What is there to learn? Scolding and guilt do work on liberals. That’s why they vote Democrat in the first place!

Reverse_Vampyr on March 25, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Avatar for Hannitized

I don’t see that.  Unless you want to blame Republicans for Obama attending what amounts to a racist church, then it’s pretty hard to construct a logical argument from this that doesn’t strongly resemble a pretzel

.

Hey Carrick, instead of throwing around the word “racism” in every other sentence, could you please build a case for it?

I have been asking y’all to do it. But most of you wont and the ones who do misquote Wright or fail to make the case.

So, please explain why the church is racist.

Can you?

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 12:51 pm

Hannitized.  Here is one of the original reports that began to break this story.

“It encourages blacks to group together and separate from the larger American society by pooling their money, patronizing black-only businesses and backing black leaders. Such racial separatism is strangely at odds with the media’s portrayal of Obama as a uniter who reaches across races.”

Now if let us say that a Republican nominee attended a similar “church” that held those same principles in reverse, don’t you think that the MSM newspapers would be saying the word racist?


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 01:10 pm

Carrick

I don’t see that.  Unless you want to blame Republicans for Obama attending what amounts to a racist church, then it’s pretty hard to construct a logical argument from this that doesn’t strongly resemble a pretzel.

1) Catellanos said

“All the sudden you’ve got two dots, and two dots make a line,” said Castellanos. “You start getting some sense of who he is, and it’s not the Obama you thought. He’s not the Tiger Woods of politics.”

2) KMcC said

Got that? If you even hint that Obama is not as pure in thought and background as Tiger Woods, you are guilty of playing the Willie Horton card.

Does 2 follow from 1? If yes, then how?

I will admit that this tactic probably won’t boomerang on the Republicans because I doubt that the Obama/Wright connection will play a significant factor in very many voting decisions but to suggest that my observation is as logical as a pretzel while Ken’s response to a phantom Media Matters position isn’t rhetorical overkill is eyebrow raising to say the least.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on March 25, 2008 at 01:33 pm

I’ve been known to be guilty of rhetorical overkill, MikeA.

Ken McCracken on March 25, 2008 at 01:38 pm

Maybe not, but I am 10 times better at this than you believe I am.

10 times 0 is still zero.

I gave up on you. You’re an angry, bitter man, who will defend Obama til the ends of the Earth just because he’s a shade other than white. I agree with Ken, you show a complete lack of desire to debate. Obama’s as pure as the newly fallen snow, and if anyone has the temerity to disagree...not only are THEY divisive, but perhaps racist to boot.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on March 25, 2008 at 01:54 pm
Avatar for Hannitized

“It encourages blacks to group together and separate from the larger American society by pooling their money, patronizing black-only businesses and backing black leaders. Such racial separatism is strangely at odds with the media’s portrayal of Obama as a uniter who reaches across races.”

Now if let us say that a Republican nominee attended a similar “church” that held those same principles in reverse, don’t you think that the MSM newspapers would be saying the word racist?

Two things before I answer that question.  1) Can you point to me where in our country Republicans have been segregated, enslaved, removed from their original country without consent and struggled economically against a black oppressor?  2) I think it was Bat or another blogger who opposes the word “fair”, because let’s face it.  The world isn’t “fair”.

Now with those two things said, the answer to your question is:  Probably.  But then again life isn’t fair and the reality of the world we live creates the need for that type of behavior.  You can liken it to what we see now in the economic sector where distributors are being cut out of the market.  Vertical marketing has taken on a new shape and people are now buying their clothes, dry goods, soft-drinks and just about anything non-perishable on line.  It’s called “pro-sumerism”. 

My friend tried to get me to be a “prosumer”, but I know that it cuts out the middle man while some top level tier dude is getting rich of others hard work and networking. 

So, I can understand the black mans plight, especially in cities like Chicago.  I see the need for them to lift themselves up economically.  And it is not illegal to support stores of color.  It is illegal to stop serving people because of color. 

Now ask me if I like his church.  No, I don’t and ask me if I wish Obama wen’t to a different church.  I do.  Now ask me if I think it means Obama is a racist who is going to harm our country for having gone to this church.  No I don’t.

There are far to many legitimate reasons to disagree with Obama.  Falsely accusing his church of racism is not one of them.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 01:59 pm
Avatar for Hannitized

I gave up on you. You’re an angry, bitter man, who will defend Obama til the ends of the Earth just because he’s a shade other than white.

Except for the fact that I think he was wrong on the surge.

Except for the fact that I think African Nationalism has no place in America.

Except for the fact that I think his church crosses the line, often too many times.

I agree with Ken, you show a complete lack of desire to debate.

Except for the fact that all I do is debate.

I challenged him on his lies, distortions and misrepresentations, and sometimes I do it angrily, because, sorry Kenny.  I don’t like it when people spread lies and repeat them and expect me to continuously argue them, even though I keep proving them as misrepresentations and/or lies.

Obama’s as pure as the newly fallen snow, and if anyone has the temerity to disagree...not only are THEY divisive, but perhaps racist to boot.

I have never called anyone a racist.  In fact, I have revealed some of my friends who have racist tendencies when it comes to blacks.  You can spin all you wan’t in an attempt to ridicule me.  But my words are permanent, and you can not challenge them honestly.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 02:08 pm

RBB, thanks for the even answers. 

Two things before I answer that question.  1) Can you point to me where in our country Republicans have been segregated, enslaved, removed from their original country without consent and struggled economically against a black oppressor?

Well, where do we start?  The Chinese who were enslaved to build the UP railroad or the Irish who were “indentured servants” and were forced to build the Erie canal?  Sorry.  Republicans????  What?  I thought this was about race or nationality, not a voluntary organization like a political party.  I will note that some of the Swiss, the Amish left while they were being killed and persecuted for their religion.  I guess that is why they try to remain above these political discussions.  Republicans??  that is “rich” (pun not intended or stereotyped) One is not born Republican.  Hillary was once one.  Can one change their political thoughts?  Tell that to the Ohio Democratic party.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 02:15 pm

It is all Obama’s grandmothers fault. Damn typical white people.

Mickey on March 25, 2008 at 02:20 pm

The Republican party freed the slaves and voted for the 1964 voter rights act.
How someone twisted the Republicans as being racist I will never know, but evil men do evil things for their own gain.  Just look at Al Sharpton, the hoax of Tawana Brawley.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 02:35 pm

Indeed it did and has for decades later:  “Two of Sharpton’s associates quit, claiming the reverend had known all along that the case was a hoax.  Other black leaders criticized Brawley’s advisers—Ray Innes of the Congress of Racial Equality and attorney Conrad Lynn among them.  They feared the hoax and the antics of publicity hounds like Sharpton would prove detrimental to the cause of racial equality.”


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 02:43 pm
Avatar for Hannitized

RBB, thanks for the even answers.

Did you mean Hannitized?

Well, where do we start?  The Chinese who were enslaved to build the UP railroad or the Irish who were “indentured servants” and were forced to build the Erie canal?  Sorry.  Republicans????  What?  I thought this was about race or nationality, not a voluntary organization like a political party.

Sorry, when you said Republican candidate, I assumed you mean McCain or any of the Republican candidates of today.  None of them are Chinese or any other minority group.  They represent the majority, the elite and the ruling class, do they not?

Are you not commenting on my responses because you accepted them?

I will note that some of the Swiss, the Amish left while they were being killed and persecuted for their religion.  I guess that is why they try to remain above these political discussions.  Republicans??  that is “rich” (pun not intended or stereotyped) One is not born Republican.  Hillary was once one.  Can one change their political thoughts?  Tell that to the Ohio Democratic party.

Ok, I wasn’t as specific as I could have been.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 03:01 pm

Conflating again I see, huh RZ?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on March 25, 2008 at 03:07 pm

Conflating?  No.  Comparing, yes.  Shaprton is one of those who have lied and used race for his own gain, and “his people” have gone along with it.  Was it out of ignorance of the facts or hoping that they would continue to ride the gravy train of “guilt”?


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 03:24 pm

GEZZZZZZZAAAAASSSS RZ, Conflating Hannitized and RBB!
You really worry me, are you ok?


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on March 25, 2008 at 03:28 pm

Except for the fact that all I do is debate.
I challenged him on his lies, distortions and misrepresentations, and sometimes I do it angrily, because, sorry Kenny.  I don’t like it when people spread lies and repeat them and expect me to continuously argue them, even though I keep proving them as misrepresentations and/or lies.

You have lied several times yourself to do so. You have misrepresented arguments, and ignored basic facts. You have continued to use the term blowback after being explained that that’s not what Wright was talking about. You ridiculously claimed that because the KKK wanted Obama dead, the US of KKK-A comment was ok. You have made every excuse you can think of, no matter how silly on it’s face. And you have used past racism, real or imagined, to write off comments. And you have, when all else failed, use the “context” and “he wasn’t there” defenses. When even that fails, you call everyone who disagrees with you a liar.

In short, you have decided that you will give Obama a pass on this, no matter what. And everyone else, including no shortage of liberals, and even black liberals like Juan Williams, who thinks this is a big deal are just eeeeevil. And you’re not above lying yourself to smear others. This is not the tactics of an honest debater.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on March 25, 2008 at 03:57 pm

MikeAdamson:

I will admit that this tactic probably won’t boomerang on the Republicans because I doubt that the Obama/Wright connection will play a significant factor in very many voting decisions but to suggest that my observation is as logical as a pretzel while Ken’s response to a phantom Media Matters position isn’t rhetorical overkill is eyebrow raising to say the least.

I think we disagree over just how “phantom” Ken’s position is with respect to his interpretation of the Media Matters commentary. That’s no matter, because I was never address whether I thought it was pretzelled or not. All I was addressing, and you seem to accept the point, is that the Obama-Wright connection is not one that was created by the Republicans, though no doubt they plan on exploiting it, and secondly that they can win without even using it.

And certainly I disagree with your conclusion/opinion “The material quoted from Media Matters doesn’t even lead to the conclusion that Ken draws but is rather an example of over the top desperation IMO. “

Desperation?  Don’t see it.  Obama is a socialist, perhaps even a radical socialist (I’m still defining what that really is and whether Obama is one, still...), and flat out the most liberal member of the Senate.  Wright is a piece of the puzzle that gives an image of Obama as fairly extreme in his beliefs, I don’t think that is too far off reality.  But regardless, his stated platform is enough for me to not vote for him.

Carrick on March 25, 2008 at 04:03 pm
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Conflating Hannitized and RBB!

Much more fun de-flating Hannitized and RBB! smile



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Proof on March 25, 2008 at 04:21 pm
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You have lied several times yourself to do so.

Really?  I will challenge you on that.  Link me.

You have misrepresented arguments, and ignored basic facts. You have continued to use the term blowback after being explained that that’s not what Wright was talking about.

This must be one of those responses, that you said you provide and I didnt respond.  Probably because I went back to work, never to check back.  Can you link to that please?

You ridiculously claimed that because the KKK wanted Obama dead, the US of KKK-A comment was ok.

You are misrepresenting what I said, or I didnt make myself clear enough.  What I was saying is that YOU think that the KKK comment was out of line, and it was (to a degree), but its far from out of line to a person as close to Obama, as is Wright (and myself to his family), to talk about the KKK in a manner that is serious, especially when they are talking about killing your friend.

I am not saying that he used that phrase, at that time, for that reason.  But you don’t know how many times he might get emails from the KKK.  Do you?  Or how the KKK intimidates them.  Do you?  You simply expect a black person to dismiss the KKK.  Dont you?

You have made every excuse you can think of, no matter how silly on it’s face.

The KKK statement by Wright is still not racism.  It’s hypersensitivity TO racism and its anger, unmanaged anger at those who have oppressed his people.  It’s misguided anger, but it is not racism.  Why don’t you debate on the merits?

And you have used past racism, real or imagined, to write off comments.

Huh?  What sort of point was that? 

And you have, when all else failed, use the “context” and “he wasn’t there” defenses.

And?  They are good defenses.  How can Obama leave, if he wasn’t there? 

How can you be upset at a statement if you know the context?  So now we can take any statement by a republican and take it out of context and its ok with you?  How ridiculous Kenny!

When even that fails, you call everyone who disagrees with you a liar.

Did Wright say God Damned rich white people in the Hillary aint never been called a Nigger speech, yes or no?  Answer that please.

I call people liars, when they are lying.  It’s really THAT simple.

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 05:22 pm
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to talk about the KKK in a manner that is serious, especially when they are talking about killing your friend.

False equivalence, bonehead! Talking about the KKK is NOT the same as calling America the US of KKK A.
If you can’t tell the difference, you have no business having discussions with adults. If you can tell the difference but are deliberately trying to change the subject, then you have no business having discussions with honest adults.



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Proof on March 25, 2008 at 05:33 pm
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In short, you have decided that you will give Obama a pass on this, no matter what.

Um, thats not the case.  Unlike my counterparts to the right, I look at it in depth and in proper context.  The fact of the matter is that African nationalism has no place in America, I do not excuse Barack for subscribing to a church that endorses that line of thinking.  However, I am still reviewing if that is in fact the case.  Certainly having an interest to see Africa succeed and become a US ally is certainly an acceptable interest. 

I am disappointed that he would reduce his chances for success by participating in a church that can become suspect to overreaching and overzealous Republicans who he knows would be out to get him, at all costs.

But when he explained that he could not turn his black on the black community it all made sense to me.  I believe knew as a long time resident of Chicago that blacks face a different reality than many in the country, much like blacks in hawaii face a different reality.  He needed to identify with his constituents and he needed to understand them.  He clearly rejected any divisive nature they may have dabbled in occasionally as his platform is entirely different than what you pretend his church preaches.

Everything we know about Obama is in direct contrast to what you are pretending his Church teaches.  This is why it is painfully obvious that he is trying to belong to a group of individuals in America who have been ignored.  Hillary herself said she would abandon them, Oprah abandoned them.  Who then will help anyone from that community understand that they can hear you, but also guide you in a direction that is more balanced and centered?  Who then can lead them from the dark to the light if not someone whom they trust.

I believe you simply lack the capacity to understand this.

And everyone else, including no shortage of liberals, and even black liberals like Juan Williams, who thinks this is a big deal are just eeeeevil. And you’re not above lying yourself to smear others. This is not the tactics of an honest debater.

I just laid out my case.  An HONEST case.  Where is yours?  Let’s see if you can explain why Obama would carry a message of unity, but secretly belong to a secret society of racists and separatists, who hate America.

You have been challenged.  Debater!  Heh…

Hannitized on March 25, 2008 at 05:49 pm

RBB.  Conflating.  Is this the word of the week.  I remember Cacophony of voices.
A term overused around 2003.  You saw it once, you saw it 1,000 times on reprinted and recirculated articles in certain newspapers.  The liberals seems to pick a new word, overuse it and then discard it with their newspapers.
On topic:  It seems that several posters are confusing race with class.  I observed this when I first came “down south”.  People do not have any problem with proper people.  They do have problems with uncouth ones that demand that they be treated as equals.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 06:05 pm

By Wendy McElroy
FOX NEWS

The University of Colorado at Boulder’s ongoing sex scandal revolves around football players who are accused of “getting away” with raping up to 10 women over the past several years. Women are suing. Dozens of athletes and their families are devastated. The National Organization for Women is demanding the head coach be fired.

Legislators wonder if they should conduct their own investigation. The truth of the specific accusations has yet to be determined. But, through the cacophony of voices, Richard Grego wishes to express a differing opinion: Namely, that the CU campus promotes false awareness.


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on March 25, 2008 at 06:23 pm

FOX NEWS.COM

JERUSALEM — In a letter to the troops, Israel’s military chief acknowledged publicly for the first time Thursday that there were shortcomings in the military’s performance during the recent Lebanon war.

Israel went into the monthlong war as a united front against Hezbollah guerrillas, but since the fighting ended last week, the country has splintered into a cacophony of reproachful voices.


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on March 25, 2008 at 06:26 pm

Wendy McElroy writes for ifeminists.com guess she is a bit behind the times.
Old fashions?  The Israeli story was written by the AP. 

Confusing race with class.  Comments?


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 06:53 pm

RBB, Yes, I meant Hannitized.  Just got back.  We all make mistakes, but some of us have the ability to admit them.  Yes, that was a dig at Clinton et al Democrats.
I can admit my mistakes and admit that I am a sinner.  The point is that some others, and I have known quite a few seem incapable of correcting themselves.
Most are and were liberals and Democrats or communists.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 07:07 pm

People do not have any problem with proper people.  They do have problems with uncouth ones that demand that they be treated as equals.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on March 25, 2008 at 07:16 pm

They do have problems with uncouth ones that demand that they be treated as equals.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? For sinners also love those that love them.

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? For sinners also do even the same.


Excuse me, you were saying?


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realitybasedbob on March 25, 2008 at 07:22 pm

RBB.  You have attempted to twist my words.  Let me be plain.  I have taken homeless people to lunch.  I have served in soup kitchens.  What I was typing about were people who intentionally disrespect others.  They show no manners even when prompted.  They steal from homes, they pull down others clothes in public, they have sexual intercourse in public bathrooms.  Would you like more graphic, truthful words or do you get my meaning now.  Stop trying to divert from the subject.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 07:26 pm

Chief RZ:  RBB is fascinated by his own words, but has only contempt for the thoughts of others. Don’t you see it?  Only he is ‘reality-based’.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The times, they are a-changin’...
Bob Dylan

pparets on March 25, 2008 at 07:39 pm

pparets.  I have observed that some people are what are called linguists. One of the most interesting was Noam Chomsky.  I read the book exposing him as a fraud.  Sooner or later, people’s true colors (so to speak) come out.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on March 25, 2008 at 08:05 pm

Carrick

All I was addressing, and you seem to accept the point, is that the Obama-Wright connection is not one that was created by the Republicans…

Sorry if I left the impression that I thought the Republicans created that connection. Obviously I don’t have a vote but if I did I’d be concerned about Obama’s lack of executive experience and lack of legislative achievements. I wouldn’t vote for Hilary as I’d be tired of Bushes and Clintons in the Oval Office. I think I would have been a Bill Richardson supporter were I American...his new beard seals that for me.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on March 25, 2008 at 08:29 pm

Mike, I think Obama is way too inexperienced and lacking in basic knowledge to be an effective leader in foreign policy. The only US leader that was similarly lacking was Jimmy Carter, who’s foreign policy was an unmitigated disaster of course.

I would vote for Clinton over Obama in a heartbeat, btw.

Carrick on March 25, 2008 at 08:47 pm
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