Say Anything Blog

Who has been burdened with the duty to disobey illegal orders?  Who has to face the choice knowing they lose if they go and they lose if they protest?  Who in this country would know what goes on in Iraq better than a soldier who has been there?

Adam Kokesh demonstrated far greater courage in demonstrating against this illegal war after being sent to participate in it than any armchair warrior blogging about it from home.  Re-enlisting him simply to downgrade his discharge in retaliation for protesting says more about the pettiness of the government than him.  He may have lost his “honorable discharge,” but he’s proven his honor more than General Bergman.

Michael,

Kokesh violated his oath and the regulations of the service which he volunteered to join.  In just compensation for that betrayal he has joined the tiny and dishonored ranks of the ex-Marines.

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Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Michael,

If Kokesh’s actions were so honorable, why would he be concerned with the penalty for violating military regulations brought on by those actions?

Anyway, he can always go out an marry some rich ugly widow and make a career out doing nothing while “serving” in the US Senate for 20 years.  Perhaps he’s even got some home movies and a magic hat stashed away somewhere?

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“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

The right decision. Unforunately the Left will make him their new poster boy…

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Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Hmm...according to Kokesh’s blog (kokesh.blogspot.com) he’s received numerous letters of support from pro-military organizations around the country.  Several of them brought up the fact that the former Sgt. Kokesh wore camos without any insignia, fatigues like so many people wear casually at all manner of functions.  Some have brought up that the Bush administration frequently uses soldiers in full military dress at political functions, nullifying their charge against Kokesh.

So let’s sum up:  he’s a discharged veteran who protests against the war.  He wore clothing that many people commonly wear without insignia and was charged for wearing a uniform at a political event.  Other active duty soldiers are not being similarly charged for wearing full military dress at political events.  Therefore, his primary crime is to exercise his First Amendment right to protest a government with whom he disagrees.

Go ahead and spin this one, gentlemen.  I can’t wait.

If Kokesh has indeed received so much support from military organizations (there is, after all, only his word on this, nor do we know which organizations he is talking about), that certainly puts him ahead of “Mother” Sheehan, doesn’t it?

Come to think of it, I believe Cindy’s little piece of heaven in Crawford, TX is for sale.  Perhaps Mr. Kokesh would be interested in taking over the protest and the payments, now that Saint Cindy has retired and Moved On.

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“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Michael,

You forgot the step where former Marine Kokesh was informed he was under investigation for violation of the UCMJ:

A superior officer e-mailed Kokesh, saying he was being investigated because he might have violated a rule prohibiting troops from wearing uniforms at protests.

Kokesh, a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, [and a IRR reservist still subject to the UCMJ] responded to the superior with an obscenity, prompting the Marines to take steps to remove him with an “other than honorable” discharge.

Either of the offenses would have earned an active duty member a summary court martial and a Big Chicken Dinner. 

Former Marine Kokesh got off lite.

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Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Two letters of support that he posted on his blog (which is why I provided the address) are Florida Veterans for Common Sense and The Military Project.  Should you browse the site, you might find more answers to your questions.

I’m not sure why forgetting to mention that letter is important, but yes he mentions it in his blog.  Kokesh also goes into detail explaining why he joined the Marines, what it meant to him, how he and his comrades joked about “signing away their rights” while in service and detailing both the plea bargain he was offered and his response.

He also goes on to quote George Washington, “When we assumed the Soldier, we did not lay aside the Citizen.” He very neatly summarizes the action in this statement:  “While there may be some purpose of this prosecution in order to maintain the, ‘good order and discipline’ of the inactive reserve, it is clear by its prejudice that it is intended to silence the voices of dissent.”

Dissent is not unpatriotic, nor is it treasonous.  Our nation was founded on dissent, but to hear the rhetoric spouted these days you’d think any kind of disagreement justifies reclassification as an “enemy combatant.”

Michael,

He violated his oath and brought dishonor upon himself, for which he has been very lightly punished.

Just as even the devil can quote scripture, so too can a dishonored scoundrel quote the indispensable man amongst our Founding Fathers, who being safely dead, cannot spit in the face of this disgrace to the service.

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Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

"He violated his oath...”

What oath did he violate?  He was discharged, no longer bound to hold his tongue against what he perceives as abuses in our government.  Even while in service, he acknowledges the right and duty of active duty servicemen to conscientiously object, to speak out when circumstances warrant it.

The UMJC had to deliberately reactivate him in order to downgrade his discharge.  Furthermore, they went out of their way to schedule the review in such a venue where witnesses could not easily testify on his behalf.  Finally, they’re focusing on him for expressing an unpopular opinion while turning a blind eye to others who were far more blatant in their violations of the oath you site.

How do you condemn a man for wearing quasi-fatigues in violation of an oath he’s been released from and not prosecute another for wearing full military dress at political speeches and fund-raisers?

What oath did he violate?  He was discharged, no longer bound to hold his tongue against what he perceives as abuses in our government.

He was still in IRR and bound the rule against using the uniform of the US military for personal political purposes.

What part of this do you not understand?  It is explicitly against the rules.  He can say whatever he wants to about the war or the President when he’s dressed as a civilian, but he can’t use his uniform.

And he can’t cuss out superior officers.

Try actually knowing things, Michael.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The UMJC had to deliberately reactivate him in order to downgrade his discharge.  Furthermore, they went out of their way to schedule the review in such a venue where witnesses could not easily testify on his behalf.

Gee, I dunno Michael! Maybe it had to do with the obscenity he used when replying to them?
Tell you what...next time you are gainfully employed, go up to your supervisor (in your case, maybe the guy running the french fry machine ) and tell him off using an obscenity . See if the people who have authority over you will go out of their way to exercise it!

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Excuse me, you were saying?

He was still in IRR and bound the rule against using the uniform of the US military for personal political purposes.

So the UMJC slapped his hand with the only charge they could possibly levy against him and did so in such a way that he had to go to extraordinary lengths to defend himself.  For wearing a hat without insignia or other token of military service, folk here want to turn it into an honor-destroying event wherein he has violated sacred oaths.  Meanwhile, others dress in full military regalia at political events without so much as a stern glance.

I therefore return to my earlier statement:

So let’s sum up:  he’s a discharged veteran who protests against the war.  He wore clothing that many people commonly wear without insignia and was charged for wearing a uniform at a political event.  Other active duty soldiers are not being similarly charged for wearing full military dress at political events.  Therefore, his primary crime is to exercise his First Amendment right to protest a government with whom he disagrees.

So the UMJC slapped his hand with the only charge they could possibly levy against him and did so in such a way that he had to go to extraordinary lengths to defend himself.

They sent him an email saying they were investigating him for possibly misusing his uniform. He responded by cussing out a superior officer.  They dismissed him from the service.

Seems rather straight forward to me.

For wearing a hat without insignia or other token of military service

It wasn’t just the hat.  He wore his entire uniform, and while the insignia may have been removed, it was still a Marine uniform used improperly.

Meanwhile, others dress in full military regalia at political events without so much as a stern glance.

If you’re talking about military personnel present at events the President and other politicians attend then yes, you’re correct.  Except that these military personnel are performing their job duties and do so at events starring both Republican and Democrat politicians.

So again, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Tell us, michael, how much are you paid to go from blog to blog spewing this propaganda? You are not very good at it, hope they don’t dock your pay for your incompetence.

USMC fatigues are clearly marked as such, indelibly. In all the pics I have seen of Cpl Kokesh at these protests he is clearly wearing USMC uniform. And that is the end of it.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Being a retired Marine I would like to clear up this little discussion.

A service member is obligated to 8 years of service when they voluntarily enlist.  The eight years can be (and usually is) broken up between active duty service and reserve service.  I found that this guy was still obligated until 18 June 2007, that means that when he did his little demonstration he was still obligated to the rules/regulations of the Marine Corps.  The uniform may be worn during parades, celebrations, and other public functions as long as it is worn in accordance with regulations.  The Marine (including retired Marines) are not allowed to make public political speeches while in uniform unless they obtain permission from the proper military authority first.

In the cases that I have seen military personnel appear with politicians they were either receiving an award of some type or they were just there and made no public speech. This EX-Marine was still under obligated service.  Since he attended a political rally while improperly wearing the uniform of a Marine he can be charged under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice).  I’m sure that if he had been a little more mature and not used profanity with the investigating officer he would have been better off.

After a little checking I found some interesting things.

1. On Kokesh’s own blog on 20 March 2007 he wrote;

“I feared that violating the sanctity of the Marine Corps utility uniform would be sacrilege. I think if I was still on active duty right now, and was watching fellow former Marine Sergeant and IVAW member Liam Madden marching though the capitol in his utilities, I probably would have called him a “shit bag”. But to not participate when perfectly able would have been to betray myself. In light of the stakes, making a parody of military operations is the pettiest of transgressions.”

2. Kokesh was demoted from sergeant to corporal and not allowed to do a second tour in Iraq after it was learned that he brought a pistol back after his first tour in 2004.

3. Kokesh used his military ID to gain access to an Army base in Germany to deliver an anti-war message. He also tried to get a fellow protester (who was not in the military) on to the base by lying and saying that this person was in the military but did not have is ID card.

Seems to me that he made the Marine Corp’s case when he said that it would be a sacrilege to improperly wear the uniform.

Taking weapons home is considered profiteering or black marketing, not to mention there are safety reasons for not carrying a weapon on your person when you leave a combat zone.  He is lucky he didn’t serve time in prison.  This guy seems to have a problem with following even the simplest of instructions.  In my experience when the Marine Corps busts you and boots you out they figure you are not worth keeping around but they don’t want to ruin your life.  This guy was walking a tight rope.  I think he was probably what we call a ribbon hunter ( a lot like John Kerry…hey he desecrated the uniform too didn’t he?).

The more I hear about this guy the more I get a picture of a looser that joined the reserves so that he could play Marine and then, to his chagrin, got sent to war.  He was probably a foul up while he was there and didn’t do much more that sit on his rear end.

RAM,

First, thank you for your service.  If you care to share, I’m curious what the “R” stands for.

Thank you too for the information on Kokesh’s activities before his discharge from active duty. Clearly those on the anti-war Left are trying to make some sort of hero out of Mr.Kokesh… much as was done with John Kerry over 30 years ago.  If Kokesh manages to develop a career similarly devoid of any substantive accomplishment, we will all be the better for it.

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“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Romeo Alpha Mike, when I separated from active duty Army in mid-’80s IRR was explained to me as being listed for recall to active duty until age 35.

And thanks for your time and sweat. How long you been outside the wire?

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

I don’t know about you people.
When I was discharged from active duty I was a civilian.
Subject only to civilian law.

I didn’t salute flag officers as they drove by. If Sgt Major Rohrbaugh
told me to police the area , I was not about to do it. I was a civilian.

Has anyone else ever been subject to the kind of discipline this Marine was or is the Corps breaking new ground?

Good points RAM.

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Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

woof writes:

I don’t know about you people.

That may well be the only thing we ever agree on.

When I was discharged from active duty I was a civilian.  Subject only to civilian law.

That would depend on the nature of your last contract and the nature of your discharge.  Absent your DD-214, we have no way of knowing if you served, let alone the nature of your post active duty obligations.

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Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rob, I agree about the FedEx example. Just as the flight attendant was fired for her provocative pic on her myspace.. in her uniform. Doesn’t matter whether we like it or not, they don’t own the title to the uniform.
Woof, maybe I didn’t read it correctly but this Marine was still in active duty wasn’t he? I find it odd that they classified him as a veteran prior to discharge when we normally use the term for only “have served” and not “currently serving” ... but apparently it isn’t exclusively past tense.

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Kokesh had been honorably discharged.
He was IRR, inactive ready reserve.

How is he subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice when not on active duty?

Because that is the contract he signed.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

First of all he wasn’t wearing the “entire unitform”, no insignias, no name tag, now rank, just DCUs. At any inspection he would have been considered out of unitform. Second, he wasn’t getting paid by the Marines ans was not even required to get a hair cut or be inspected at any time. Third he did not give up any rights when he signed up for the Marines, he always had the right of free speech. As long as he use his rights out of uniform. Fourth, the only thing that he could be held to answer charges for was that he told the idiot officer that started this whole trumped up pile of manure to go F*@k himself. As any Marine worth his salt would have. VFW stand behinds his right to free speech and so do many other veterans organizations as well they should. Stay tuned, to IVAW they are going to make you look silly all summer long by baiting you into these kinds of discussions. Where you insinst that he is some kind of trader that needs to be punished for using his rights of free speech about a war that he waged on a country without freedom, democracy, a free press, weapons of mass destruction, links to 911, or any other of the abviously fabricated reasons for waging it. Your just looking as stupid and the officer that brought the charges in the first place. Not to mention the idiot in the oval office.

Where you insinst that he is some kind of trader that needs to be punished for using his rights of free speech about a war that he waged on a country without freedom, democracy, a free press, weapons of mass destruction, links to 911, or any other of the abviously fabricated reasons for waging it.

Can you give us specifics of these “abviously fabricated reasons” given for waging the war?

Michael said, Adam Kokesh demonstrated far greater courage in demonstrating against this illegal war...

Right there you lost the argument.

Get your facts straight.