Say Anything Blog

There’s something fishy here. The idea of leftwing loons armed with a handgun and driving a SUV....hmmm

Even He-Man John Kerry ( who served in Viet Nam )doesn’t carry a hand gun.

This sounds like a batch of red necks looking for a fight they could win with an advantage.

Better be careful, your . is showing.

Yeah, since this story is coming from some page called the ‘Jawa-report,’ whose previous story is headlined “Naked Iranian Chicks, Flaming UN Farts, Camel SUVs,” and the guy had an SUV and a hand-gun, I’m going to take this with a grain of salt the size of Bonneville Flats that these characters are liberals.

Oh, and I’m curious, do you have any links to any verifiable stories that Viet Nam vets were spit on on their return? Other than Rambo First Blood, parts 1 and 2. No one has ever been able to verify that myth.

For some reason, my post above did not include my link:

‘better be careful, your dolchstoßlegende is showing.’

now our troops coming home from the battlefields are being assaulted by anti-war goons

That’s a lie.

non: It’s not a myth.  Don’t comment on what you have no knowledge of whatsoever.  The lefties turned up the lies and hate during Vietnam(who won the Tet Offensive?), succeeded in getting us to cut and run, and are now trying to duplicate that “success”.  All you guys care about is short term political gain, and have no concern for what your hate-filled rhetoric and actions are doing to this country.  Shame on you!

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

One more time:

non: It’s not a myth

Prove it.

shucks:

woot?

Dave: Nice semantic non-argument.  A soldier is also know as “a troop”, which also means a group of soldiers.  I assume your objection is because only one soldier was assaulted by antiwar goons.  Weak, as usual.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Don: Prove it never happened.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

bob:

You first. After all, you’re the person who brought it up. If YOU make a claim then YOU should back it up with some credible evidence.

I have never once seen you do that on this blog.

Dave is keeping up his side’s factual accuracy record I see:

National Guardsman Brutally Attacked In Pierce County



POSTED: 4:33 pm PDT August 30, 2006
UPDATED: 6:15 pm PDT August 30, 2006



PARKLAND, Wash.—The Pierce County Sheriff’s Department is searching for five people who allegedly attacked a uniformed National Guardsmen walking along 138th Street in Parkland Tuesday afternoon.

The soldier was walking to a convenience store when a sport utility vehicle pulled up alongside him and the driver asked if he was in the military and if he had been in any action.

The driver then got out of the vehicle, displayed a gun and shouted insults at the victim. Four other suspects exited the vehicle and knocked the soldier down, punching and kicking him.

“And during the assault the suspects called him a baby killer. At that point they got into the car and drove off and left him on the side of the road,” Detective Ed Troyer with the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News.

I’d say that that’s going to leave a mark on the old credibility, but one cannot mark what does not exist.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Don: Since handheld video cameras hadn’t been invented then, and since I didn’t expect it to happen, I have no record of my personal experience.  That doesn’t change the truth.  You have no credibility with me, Don.  You are just another hate-filled leftie parrot who is lost in emotional reactivity.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

bob:

In other words, you have NOTHING to back up your claims except insults.

Imagine my astonishment…

Don: To get back to the thread: I didn’t “bring it up”; non-mulleted did.  He or she made a definitive statement that returning soldiers from Vietnam(uniformed ones), were spat on was a myth.  He or she offered no proof of that assertion.  Perhaps you can furnish that proof, or get “non-mulleted” to furnish same. Hint: You can’t, because it did happen, many times.  Our guys, as a result, changed out of their uniforms into civvies on the flight home, to avoid those assualts.  Most soldiers would not wear their uniforms at home at all. Had you been around at the time, you would undoubtedly have been one of the spitters. Shame on you!

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Don: I’m surprised.  I would think you would be proud of being a hate-filled leftie parrot…
I apologize for hurting your feelings.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

non,

How about a little honesty from the left now and then?  The change would be nice.  The story is from KIRO-TV Seattle, the local CBS affiliate.

Prove there are no pink elephants on Neptune. Ah ha! They MUST be there!

I don’t believe we conservatives should engage in stigmatizing the left’s response to the war.  While I am sure some on the left are motivated by anti-American sentiment, it is not useful to the debate.  An honest approach based upon clearly communicated facts is needed.  I think it appropriate to post again the following comment to “Making it a Republican War”. (primarily the 2nd paragraph)

The UN is not a nation.
The world may express its will, but does the UN have the authority to enforce its will without violating the rules of nations, in particular, their sovereignty?  That is not to say that a nation cannot defend itself or come to the aid of another’s defense.  However, a world body which is no nation, has no subjects, no land, cannot be invested with the authority equal to that of a national government.  The UN imposes dues (taxes), attempts to govern subjects of nations, and maintains a fighting force.  Therefore, why is it we conservatives demand compliance with UN resolutions by enemy nations?  Is it not inconsistent for us conservatives to argue the US should get out of the UN, to question UN authority, to refuse to pay the dues put upon us by the UN, while at the same time demand other sovereign nations submit to UN authority, abide by its resolutions, and face, not only sanctions, but lethal force if they do not? 

On another note.
What is missing from this war is moral and legal clarity.  UN authority is just one question clouding the picture.  WOOF’s first comment illustrates another cloud, the lack of clear communication.  While this war is described by the list WOOF posted, it can be confusing.  Are we exporting democracy, fighting global terrorism, facing Nazi-like fascism, in the first stages of WWIII, or all of the above?  If all, there’s a lot of explaining to do.  What needs to resound is a singular purpose, not a conflation of purposes, analysis, and characterizations.  Let me try:  We went into Iraq because Iraq posed an immediate threat based upon broadly accepted intelligence and the ability of terrorist to attack our homeland.  This decision was the right decision based upon the preceding factors.  In hindsight, we would not have gone in had we known no immanent threat existed.  Other steps would likely have been taken which may have inevitably led to a similar decision to exert force upon the Iraqi government.  The argument to enforce UN resolution 1441 is not one that we would hold our nation to, and so we will not justify the war based upon that resolution. However, now that we have overthrown Iraq and we now know no immanent threat existed.  We must not abandon Iraq to the Iran or Islamic terrorists.  We can help the victims of Sadam’s brutality to embrace the freedom we Americans enjoy and cherish.  Therefore we will stay and help the Iraqi people re-establish a government based upon the principles of freedom.  The war against Sadaam’s Iraq is over, but the war for Iraq continues.  We are fighting another war as well as the “war for Iraq”, that is the “war against Islamic terrorists”.  Iraq however, is the current battlefield chosen by the Islamic terrorists.  Here the two wars converge.  Because of this dynamic we cannot withdraw and must defeat the Islamic terrorists in Iraq for two reasons.  First, to leave Iraq is a victory for Islamic terrorists.  Second, to leave Iraq is to damn the Iraqi people to likely become Iranian citizens within a nuclear nation with clear and evident ties to Islamic terrorist organizations.  The world has just watched Iran fight a war with via Hezbollah. 

The inability to clarify this war calls into question judgments, purposes, ideologies, motives, etc..

Dave: Asserting a myth requires proof.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

bob:

In other words, you have NOTHING to back up your claims except insults.

Imagine my astonishment...

Robert;
This is really very funny! I’ve seen Don post this same inane remark over and over and over again through many different threads...so what’s new?

Bezu: He describes himself, over and over.  This is the tendency of the emotionally reactive personality.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Being in the military, you have the opportunity to speak with a lot of veterans of current and past wars.  Many times I have been told that they were indeed spat upon when they came home from Vietnam.  They were also routinly called baby killers and their property defaced and vandalized.

Are these veterans crazy?  Did they just imagine these things?  I don’t think so.

I think what we have here are people who think they can do anything they want, to get their way, and they should not have to be held accountable.  Not only that, but they won’t even admit their responsibility with regards to these actions.  They just shrug all evidence as ‘lies’ or’propaganda’, so they don’t have to look at themselves in the mirror.  With that sort of mindset, lies and obfuscations are perfectly acceptable forms in argumentation and debate.  After-all, the ends justify the means.  This is definitive of the extremist and fanatic mindset.

Also, I find it disgraceful that those who oppose war say they also support the troops.  How can you say that you support us, except when we have to do our jobs?  That would be like saying you support the Chicago Bears, except when they play in a football game.  How do you reconcile your cognitive dissonance?

That would be like saying you support the Chicago Bears, except when they play in a football game. How do you reconcile your cognitive dissonance?

Well said Sluggo!

Hail to the Hero ascended to Heaven,

Death can not conquer the Hero again

Here’s one for all you “haters”:

What is the country without more than one party? Isn’t it necessary to have both republicans and democrats?

Does a small group of people represent the actions of the many?

Do all anti-abortion groups blow up abortion clinics? (I think that’s pretty hypocritical in itself because you ARE still killing the babies in the building.)

So if all republicans are anti-abortion, and we assume that all anti-abortion people blow up abortion clinics because a small group does it, then aren’t we having an error in our logic?

I personally think that everyone or most people deserve respect. The soldier deserved respect. The guys that beat the soldier up deserved respect until they beat him up. If you don’t know the person, they deserve respect until you learn enough about them that they need to be put away. Everyone’s opinion can be respected, the problem is that some people need to be put away for their disrespect of others’ lives.

I find it rather hypocritical that this guy beat up a soldier and then called him a baby killer. Well, isn’t it just as bad to hurt a man and disrespect him without knowing him? Nobody knows exactly what the other person has thought or done, therefore, respect is owed until something disrespectful has been done. I would be happy if that soldier beat up the man who was attacking him.

Don’t be hate-in’

I personally think that everyone or most people deserve respect.  The guys that beat the soldier up deserved respect until they beat him up.

Huh???
Why do you think the guys that beat the soldier up deserved respect?
Does a rapist deserve respect until he sizes up his next victim?

by the way, to people against the war, supporting the troops is our way of saying “we want you guys to come back alive and safe. we just don’t agree with the reason for the war.”

You can hate your job, and still go to it.

Huh???
Why do you think the guys that beat the soldier up deserved respect?
Does a rapist deserve respect until he sizes up his next victim?

Had the man committed a crime beforehand? If so, that’s news to me. The guy deserved respect until he thought about and carried out this crime. My rapist deserved respect until he turned violent.

People deserve respect UNTIL they are guilty.

Strident Student

I support my Daughter financially. This means I pay her bills. What it doesn’t mean is that when tuition comes due, I simply cheer her on on wish her good luck.  I disagree with the choices she made that rendered her temporarily dependent on me and I dislike having the added responsibility. Nevertheless, I support her unequivocally.

"we want you guys to come back alive and safe. we just don’t agree with the reason for the war.”

Student student,

If you want the troops back alive and safe then stop emboldening the enemy with your tireless rants against the war.  Wait until the troops are out of harms way before engaging a debate that can demoralize troops and encourage enemies.  You’re not going to get them home any faster and any more alive and safe by the tone and rhetoric of your argument.  Your vocal disagreement with the reason we went to war won’t change the fact that we went to and are at, war.

HG:  right on.  You have those guys out there performing a mission while the noisy left is saying the missions wrong and the troops are doing it poorly. 

Then they claim to support the troops.

Being in the military is a job. Being in the CIA is a job. You can switch jobs if you like. So, I can have whatever opinion I like. If I was so “for” the war, then I would have signed up to get myself killed. I would not care if I came out alive or not. I would not care what other people think. But, nonetheless, it is my patriotic duty to be able to criticize policies without undermining them. I can say that the troops are doing a good job. However, I can also say that there is no exact reason for the war, agree to disagree, and tell them to stay safe. Winning the war is when we are all safe. That applies to any war. until I find further research that changes my mind, I will stick with whatever I want to think, with a PRO-AMERICAN spirit.

Muddled thinking.

Student

I will stick with whatever I want to think, with a PRO-AMERICAN spirit.

Good enough!!! Keep studying!

by the way, I don’t go marching out protesting things. Instead, I sit in my room all day long, and I do not tell soldiers that they are doing a bad job. You know my job: to support america by consuming goods and selling goods. Keeping the economy healthy by obtaining an education. What would we be if everyone in the US was a soldier?

ss: “If I was so “for” the war, then I would have signed up to get myself killed. I would not care if I came out alive or not. I would not care what other people think.”

It’s good you didn’t.  Our military isn’t a suicide mission; in fact, we intend to kill the bad guys.  We don’t sign up to get ourselves killed, as you put it.  We definitely care if we come out alive or not.  You wouldn’t have passed the psych profile.  We, unlike the Islamofascists, aren’t recruiting suicide bombers.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

student student says, If I was so “for” the war, then I would have signed up to get myself killed. I would not care if I came out alive or not.

Huh?

I guess many police officers are out there “for” the cause of fighting crime and don’t care if they die in the line of duty.

The Whistler is right when he calls that “muddled thinking.”

James 2:15-16 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Just as the faith of the one above is dead, so the is the patriotism of the one who says “we support the troops” but on the other hand ignore the united support they need to do their job.

Then you could honestly say that this is a job. You get paid to kill people, knowing that there is a possibility of you getting killed.

In the CIA, you get paid to sleep with people for national secrets...I think it sounds like more fun…

I realize it is necessary to have these people, but people must realize that they must be willing to die for a bunch of strangers regardless of the cause.

Student student is still learning. Let’s cut her some slack. Let’s just hope she’s not matriculating at New Your University.

Just as the faith of the one above is dead, so the is the patriotism of the one who says “we support the troops” but on the other hand ignore the united support they need to do their job.

The problem with you people is that you think all of us are vocal. Personally, I talk about it only on this site or other political areas in debate. I believe I have a right to do that, otherwise perhaps I should go to Cuba.

Don’t you want the soldiers to come back alive?

Everyone is implying that people with an anti-war mentality must give up that mentality for the unity of the nation. I do not believe this is true.

What I did say earlier is that I disagree with the way some of these people are treating soldiers, like the one above. I disagree with all the spitting and the put-downs that you seem to say everyone on the anti-war side does. Apparently people seem to think that is the only thing that anti-war people can do- contradict themselves by starting controversy. What do you have to say about my buddhist anti-war friend? Is he not supportive of the US, his very own country? People have their own reasons and should be allowed to keep them in a free country.

Ahhh, I love debate. It’s such a healthy way to learn the different sides of the issue. At least I’m here to keep it going…

Ahhh, I love debate. It’s such a healthy way to learn the different sides of the issue. At least I’m here to keep it going…

Pretty o.k. job SS/ keep us posted on your progress in school.

Oh, and I’m curious, do you have any links to any verifiable stories that Viet Nam vets were spit on on their return?

My father was spit on.

Proof enough?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I have a friend who was ROTC at UND.  They were always referred to as “baby killers.”

Student Student,

Keep your anti-war mentality. Just keep it to yourself until our troops are out of harms way.
For the sake of the troops you say you support,
support them by criticizing Islamic terrorists and their tactics, not US military tactics.  Support them by supporting the intelligence efforts that are getting results, not finding fault with every little thing the administration does.  Support them so the enemy is demoralized not our troops.  This will help get the job done quicker, and the sooner the job is done the sooner we can debate the reasons and decisions and tactics we used to win this thing and bring our boys home.

support them by criticizing Islamic terrorists and their tactics, not US military tactics. Support them by supporting the intelligence efforts that are getting results, not finding fault with every little thing the administration does.

I don’t support any terrorists. If I saw one, I’d report it. As far as the administration goes, I applaud them on a few things also. For example, the fact that they want to prolong the amount of time you have to report a rape. Being tougher on crime is a wonderful thing here, although I may say that perhaps on the company level, airports should be screening at the airport door and selling things that can be allowed on the plane.

student student says, What do you have to say about my buddhist anti-war friend?

I’ll just turn him around and point him towards the destruction of hundreds of year old Buddhist monuments at the hands of Muslims. Then I’ll tell him, “here, take partial credit. You’ve earned it.”

I’m glad to hear you support some of the administrations decisions.  Look the bottom line
is our troops are at war.  They are fighting war to win.  Supporting the troops means you get behind there effort to fight and win.  A debate about the reason, tactics and efforts can wait.

ss: “In the CIA, you get paid to sleep with people for national secrets...I think it sounds like more fun...”

Your lack of understanding of covert ops is profound.  Best not to comment on things of which you know nothing.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Too many James Bond movies.

A debate about the reason, tactics and efforts can wait.

Any debate has some sort of reason, tactics, and efforts.

Your lack of understanding of covert ops is profound. Best not to comment on things of which you know nothing.

Too many James Bond movies.

My mom applied to the FBI once. One of the questions was “Would you sleep with others to protect the country?” Her answer was “no”. She did not get the job.

Also, it is a known tactic that people do sleep with others- it makes them more likely to divulge secrets. Once they feel they can trust the person because they had sex with them, they feel they can tell the person their secrets and trust them with those secrets just as you would with anyone close to you.

student student says, What do you have to say about my buddhist anti-war friend?

What did the student say to the Buddhist hot-dog vendor at the fair?

Make me one with everything

My mom applied to the FBI once. One of the questions was “Would you sleep with others to protect the country?” Her answer was “no”. She did not get the job.

Take a break kiddo....come up for a breath of fresh air… you’re loosing credibility at an alarmingly exponential rate. Your posts are now sounding like a Danielle Steele Novel.

Discipline yourself, walk away from the computer and come back later.

If you want to run with the big dogs, you can’t just sit on the porch and bark!

SS,

You seem to be unwilling to exercise moderation by forgoing a debate which calls into question our national efforts. If so, your “right” to debate the reason for going to war is of greater importance to you than getting behind the efforts of our troops to fight and win.  For, as already noted the tone and rhetoric of the anti-war crowd has reverberated all the way to Baghdad, encouraging our enemies, causing Iraqi’s to question our resolve to help them, and from the comments some of our troops have made, questioning and doubting support for them on the home front.  I think you got it backwards.

Student wrote:

I love debate. It’s such a healthy way to learn the different sides of the issue

Then wrote:

Well, don’t say that this “hope” has anything to do with anyone but my own decision.

OOPS!!

Which is it, child?

P.S.

anyone but my own decision--huh?

Take a break kiddo....come up for a breath of fresh air… you’re loosing credibility at an alarmingly exponential rate. Your posts are now sounding like a Danielle Steele Novel.

You seem to be unwilling to exercise moderation by forgoing a debate which calls into question our national efforts. If so, your “right” to debate the reason for going to war is of greater importance to you than getting behind the efforts of our troops to fight and win. For, as already noted the tone and rhetoric of the anti-war crowd has reverberated all the way to Baghdad, encouraging our enemies, causing Iraqi’s to question our resolve to help them, and from the comments some of our troops have made, questioning and doubting support for them on the home front. I think you got it backwards.

Forgoing debate implies that I would lose the war against you guys since you’re all so bent on opposing whatever view I happen to have. And when I have the same view as you do, you seem to praise me for “copying” it. Basically the “oh look, she’s finally getting to understand what WE came up with. I don’t think she’s ever heard of this before.” If you disagreed with a war, but cared about the soldiers in that war, would you voice that opinion or at least think about it, or would you discard it because everyone else thinks it’s the right thing to think the same? Not all of the anti-war effort has the same tactics nor the same reason for not going to war. You have to realize that there are not just two opposing views, but many different views on how people think things should work. It’s not all black and white, I’m sorry to say, otherwise it would be as simple as all of you make it out to be. The enemies are mainly encouraged by the fact that we are not muslim. They will continue to do this with or without criticism. Every war has its criticism, and you can choose to ignore people who criticize the war, or choose not to. Now, when people who criticize the war are extreme about it, I disagree with it. If you want to prove your resolve to help Iraqis, make sure that you help the right Iraqies. Don’t just sit on your butt all day as a soldier and whine about how the liberal anti-war peace activist communist bitches don’t help your image. The real thing that proves an image is how you, in your uniform, go about doing your duty.

anyone but my own decision--huh?

My decision, based on ALL the information I have read and my conclusions about that information. Not my decision, based solely on a conservative site that bashes liberals and doesn’t consider that anyone is in between on the issues or that there are any parties other than democrat and republican.

ss: Unfortunately, there is little real debate on the war coming from the lefties, and almost none when it really counted: before we went in.  Instead, there has been personal attack on the President, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, and the only corporation that could provide the required scale of logistical support, Halliburton.  In addition, there has been lying in the MSM, both in omitting at least half the story about what is going on over there, combined with outright lies and fabrication when they thought they could get away with it.  Not only that, but then there are the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, who propose that the incident never happened, that it was all a put-up job by the President.  None of that is debate; it is lying propaganda, and the proper response to it is to call it what it is.
The lefties have never debated the war; they have attacked the President instead, which is very convincing evidence that they have no real substantive argument.  Oh, and Monday Morning quarterbacking doesn’t count, either.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

If you disagreed with a war, but cared about the soldiers in that war, would you voice that opinion or at least think about it, or would you discard it because everyone else thinks it’s the right thing to think the same?

SS,
Thank you for clarifying.  The fact that you or anyone cares about soldiers is something we have in common.  That does not mean that you support the troops.  Sorry, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.  I’m sorry you seem so offended by my disdain for outspoken dissent of our nations efforts in time of war.  Some of us feel very strongly about the importance of victory in the war for Iraq and the war on Islamist terrorists.  Some of us believe the victory in these wars will secure our liberties for generations to come.

You are entitled to your opinions, but all our opinions are subject to criticism, especially in this environment.

SS

My decision, based on ALL the information I have read and my conclusions about that information. Not my decision, based solely on a conservative site that bashes liberals and doesn’t consider that anyone is in between on the issues or that there are any parties other than democrat and republican

Sweetie:
Some people that are -normally- liberal left-wingers, paticipate in blogs and pretend that they’re neutral or semi-conservative-it’s a tactic called misdirection. That’s o.k.-it’s even fun! But don’t be ashamed to call yourself what you(and apparently your Mom) really are--left-wing libs.

P.S.
Tell your Mom I really liked that last post she wrote-it was pretty good. A gut feeling tells me you may be doing this as a class assignment for one of your hate-america professors…

HG: Just as Rumsfeld’s opinions have been subjected to criticism.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

SS,

Don’t get discouraged.  Your doing fine. I got to admit, I like your spunk.

Don’t get discouraged. Your doing fine. I got to admit, I like your spunk

I second that opinion!!

the top article should be of interest to you.

Davey (from way up at the top):

That’s a lie.

No, it’s not.

This has happened more than once.  Some soldiers in Seattle got stomped too, among other incidents.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Sweetie:
Some people that are -normally- liberal left-wingers, paticipate in blogs and pretend that they’re neutral or semi-conservative-it’s a tactic called misdirection. That’s o.k.-it’s even fun! But don’t be ashamed to call yourself what you(and apparently your Mom) really are--left-wing libs.

P.S.
Tell your Mom I really liked that last post she wrote-it was pretty good. A gut feeling tells me you may be doing this as a class assignment for one of your hate-america professors…

I just like to think that I’m my own person. I have a few views (like anti-illegal immigration) that would be considered conservative, and a few (like the war) that would be considered liberal. Just because I disagree on a few subjects does not make me one thing or the other.

My mom is almost the opposite of me- she, in fact, voted for Bush both times and refuses to discuss politics in the house no matter if she agrees or disagrees. I do not simply take sides because they are different. I just can’t fully support the war until I know exactly what the entire reason for the war (and yes, it has to be the same reason that we came in with, and a reasonable one) is. I can’t fully support something that I feel either is wrong or that I know less about than I should. There is nothing clear cut about this war. Heck, the last time I checked, we were “spreading democracy”, but I really don’t feel like that’s our job. We’re not spreading democracy in China or India, so why should we start now? Sounds rather expansionist to me.

I am doing this all in my spare time, with no help from a parent. I can do things on my own now, you know. It is not an assignment. I actually choose to be such a massochist as to discuss politics with a bunch of people who just agree to agree until someone different comes along.

I don’t have “hate-america” professors. As a matter of fact, I go to a benedictine monastery. Do I support the good riddance of terrorists? Yes. But getting rid of terrorists should always be a goal. Why didn’t we declare a war on terror when America began? And what about the war on drugs? Is it really a war? Can we focus on terror and drugs? I have a feeling that these two things go hand in hand. I often think that these terrorists are on hallucinogens or something, but I suppose that would just make them too happy to do anything…

Don’t get discouraged. Your doing fine. I got to admit, I like your spunk

I second that opinion!!

Thanks guys, I appreciate that.

To add to Rob’s comment:

Activist Sentenced to 5 Years for Molotov Attack on Army Recruitment Station

Seattle investigators are looking for a group of men who attacked two soldiers outside a nightclub

“We Support Our Troops...When They Shoot Their Officers”

BLOODY, ANTI-WAR LIBERALS

Veteran gets rude welcome on Bainbridge

SS
A

t Belmont Abbey College:
Students learn to appreciate academic rigor and the rewards that come with it. They learn from the best how to look at both sides of an argument, ask questions, think, investigate, and come to well thought-out conclusions. An Abbey education, grounded in the liberal arts, teaches a person how to search their own soul for the truth. This combined with the specialized work that each student does in their major discipline and in a variety of co-curricular activities equips an Abbey graduate to succeed in life, be a happy and moral person, and become an informed citizen.

Keep up the good work!!

I just can’t fully support the war until I know exactly what the entire reason for the war (and yes, it has to be the same reason that we came in with, and a reasonable one) is. I can’t fully support something that I feel either is wrong or that I know less about than I should. There is nothing clear cut about this war.

SS: I was wondering if you read my take on the war above (comment 19).

Heck, the last time I checked, we were “spreading democracy”, but I really don’t feel like that’s our job. We’re not spreading democracy in China or India, so why should we start now? Sounds rather expansionist to me.

I have to agree with you there.  Spreading democracy via war is questionable.  However,
since we got rid of Sadaam’s government, it seems best to try to help Iraqis establish a pro-democracy government.

ss: None of the leftie characterizations of the war are designed to garner support for the war; they are designed to mislead in order to destroy support for the war.  “Spreading democracy” is a leftie mischaracterization.  We went there to accomplish what we have done, and are still doing: Depose a dictator who has murdered, maimed, raped and tortured in the neighborhood of a half million of his own citizens, and to support those citizens in forming a representative govt.  Furthermore, to help the ME come into the twenty-first century, so that they are not a menace to free people everywhere else in the world.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Well, I didn’t expect that to be so easily found...but good job! I guess someone did find out from my wording that I go to college and just typed in the type of college to find it first on the list in google. Am I correct?

Well, I hope you enjoy reading about the school! It’s a beautiful place with good teachers. And I may mention, a very rigorous study abroad program. Although, I really don’t see the point of the newly added motorsports management concentration.

well, robert108 et al, I could say that all conservatives are garnering support for the war, and all liberals are against the war. That would be for the most part true. I really don’t have all the facts on the administration’s motivation to go into war and remain there. I think at some points, we really don’t know what we’re doing, and then a reason crops up. There are some things that are rather doubtful about the war, such as what I said earlier with spreading democracy and freedom (as I’ve heard Bush say in his speeches) and some things that are good that include killing those that are a threat to us. Regardless of the war, I think our main duty should be protecting ourselves at all times, and with that in mind, we can call it a war on terrorism but we need not necessarily be concentrated all in one place all the time. It will take a while to get out of the situation we put ourselves in, and with the mistakes we make, we really can’t be sure how soon we can gain trust. As with every war, there are mistakes and there is confusion. How do you gain the trust of people whose buildings you just bombed? Or people whose relatives you accidentally killed? It will take many years to repair the damage that there has been done under Saddam and under the war. As I recall, there was a nurse at the beginning of the war who fled afghanistan to work for a university here. She told us not to tell anyone where she was from because people are so rude to her. In addition to the help we provide, we must try to be respectful to these people to make the transition easier because it is their home.

If I were absolutely sure about this war, I would not have a single thought about it. As it is, I’d be curious to see what the real story is if it comes out in the end. I’d also like to see how long it takes to get an entire country to agree that democracy is a good thing. I’m afraid that after we leave, the country we leave will revert to a dictatorship, and the efforts may go down the drain again.

We went there to accomplish what we have done, and are still doing: Depose a dictator who has murdered, maimed, raped and tortured in the neighborhood of a half million of his own citizens, and to support those citizens in forming a representative govt.

R108: 
I wonder if another dictator could have been put into place that was not a brutal murderer and the
government structure kept?

ss: I think you are right about the lefties, but conservatives tend to think for themselves, so can’t say you are right on that point.

HG: You may have noticed that dictators tend to go in a downward direction the longer they are in power.  Saddam was one of the worst, but not the absolute worst, I guess, but I tend to be against dictatorship for reasons of principle.  So my answer to your question would be: Not a good idea.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

R108: No doubt about that.  Historically, I recall more bad than good when it comes to dictators. 

The task of establishing a democracy in Iraq is definately a trying one.  I just read the President’s speech about 30 min. ago.  He did make me much more optimistic about his decision to establish a democracy, and hopeful for the Iraqis.

My father was spit on.

Proof enough?

Eh, not really.

My father was not spit on.

Does that negate your claim? No, it doesn’t. Doesn’t make your claim any more than just that.

Anyone have a link to a verifiable story that Viet Nam vets were attacked on their return? Seriously, I can’t find anything via Google and Lexis searches.

From what I understand, it is just an urban legend, purveyed by the conservative movement.

Until someone, anyone, anywhere can refute this, it is riding shotgun in the welfare queen’s mythological cadillac.

It means that Rob’s father was spit on and your father was likely not spit on.

non,

Actually, I had it happen to me… twice.  Once just outside Travis AFB is California in 1968, and once again in Omaha, Nebraska in 1971.

Can I document either incident for you with a contemporary photo, videotape, or sworn affadavits?  No, I cannot.  But then I really don’t much give a shit whether or not you believe it anyway.  I know what I know.

Incidentally, in which branch of the military did you serve?

I didn’t serve, but I believe Bat.

No one spit on me .

One person actually thanked me for my service.

Probably just as rare.

That’s the old silent majority that thanked you woofie.  Probably happened a lot, the bad always get more attention than the good.

One person actually thanked me for my service.

WOOF,

You bring up an excellent point.  Courtesy takes no effort at all.  Especially when everyone who is in uniform is there as a volunteer.  Whether or not they’ve served in combat really isn’t the point at all.  Making a point of saying “Thanks” means a helluva lot more than you can ever imagine… to both parties.

My father was not spit on.

Does that negate your claim? No, it doesn’t. Doesn’t make your claim any more than just that.

I see, so because your father wasn’t spit on that means mine wasn’t too?

Get your head out of your butt.  If you don’t want to believe it happened to my father (and Bat) that’s your business.  Go about your business thinking we’re liars.

But believe me, the anti-war folks did far worse to Vietnam veterans than spit on them.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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