Wrong. I clearly stated that I was comparing the war in Iraq with Islamic terrorism to WWII against Nazism.

You confuse a country with a movement. Typical of the lefties.

Do you realize what you just said? You just said “I” confuse a country with a movement. And what did you say before that????? Hint, YOU confused a country with a movement!!! Here, let me splain it to you….R O B E R T.

“I clearly stated that I was comparing the war in Iraq with Islamic terrorism” – Robert (not confusing a country with a movement)

So let me explain it to you. Do you see that two plus two is 4?

Al Qaeda is the Islamic Terrorist, you idiot. Saddam was a secular dictator. Do you know what secular means?

Further, you also said: “My entire discussion of WWII events was to illustrate parallels between that war and the present one. Saddam was the Hitler of the ME, before we took him out.”

Saddam was not the Hitler of the ME. Unless you think he was invading other nations while we were attacking Afghanistan? Do you think that? How many countries was he invading while 9/11 occured? Hint: ZERO. Genius!

Hitler, with his racial purity doctrine, essentially declared war on everyone not of the “Aryan race”, in the same way that Islam declared war on “the infidels”.

First, Saddam is not Islam….HE WAS SECULAR. Second, Saddam declared war on ARABS. Third, you have no clue of what you are talking about.

And heres the little thing you cant comprehend. Saddam was not fighting a war for Islam!!

Read up on the National Socialist Party and the Koran. You might find it educational.

Dude…read something, anything, because you don’t know what you are talking about! Saddam espoused secular Pan-Arabism!!!! Jeezuz!

A leading member of the revolutionary Ba’ath Party, which espoused secular pan-Arabism, economic modernization, and socialism, Saddam played a key role in the 1968 coup that brought the party to long-term power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Arabism

Here’s your problem, R O B E R T, you listen to too much right wing radio. And clearly you don’t even listen to the pundits, you listen to its callers. Because not even pundits are stupid enough to confuse Secular Pan-Arabism with Islamic Fascism. Holy cow you are clueless.

“Drawing up a plan” isn’t the same as taking action, which was my point. Any idiot can “draw up a plan”. When someone declares war on your country, a President should do something more than “draw up a plan” and wait for the next guy to come into office. Clinton was not a leader.

What action did Bush take prior to getting 3000 US citizens killed by not acting on Clintons plan???

Seriously Robert. Get your shit together. I am tired of your totally ignorant views and distortions of reality. I don’t have time for foolishness, although I do enjoy revealing you for the ignorant result of propaganda that you are and showcase so well for anyone with 1/4 a brain.

Sorry for being so mean, but seriously dude….you scare me with your lack of knowledge.

First, a European superiority was clearly implied in the statement, “we have a process of laws,’ as if such laws do not exist elsewhere.The implication was not mine but yours. As any fule nose, all free western countries have a process of law which prevents wholesale deportation of undesirables.

Next, have you ever heard of a simile? I was not directly calling Muslims snakes, but drawing a simile of something dangerous crawling inside somewhere else in secret with the intent of doing harm. I am sorry, I know such things are far too intellectual for y’all! I would suggest that your comment was more of a metaphor than a simile. Thank you for the personal insult, I know it must be hard to square such vitriol with your Christian faith.

Next, we as a nation were in Europe, risking our lives to save Europe from German aggression and murder – twice. You were not here saving ours. Britain and America are very close allies, and they and Canada, Australia were great allies in the Pacific; but France since then has been our enemy in every way, as is Germany. When it came to Iraq both countries were too busy making money off Saddam and his insane offspring to even offer us moral support. Fortunately, France has a new leader now that is not walking down that old anti-America path, at least for now. Britain, France and Germany are not the only countries in Europe. To characterise these countries as enemies, implies that they actively seek to undermine the US, whereas I would postulate that they merely have the own interests at heart. I am not, however, condoning their behaviour vis-a-vis Iraq.

Next, it is because people like you coddle Muslims and refuse to recognize the danger of Islam that we are all in danger today.People like me Neiman? What kind of person am I? Just because someone follows the Muslim faith, it doesn’t mean they want to chop my head off. I have friends who are Muslim, yet I still live.

Thanks for the personal insults, I know it taxed your brains and caused some pain Personal insults? Plural? I suggested you might be a little hypocritical, but that is all.

Socialist is telling us that religious extremism is a disease–rabid Christians are on the same plane as their bombing, beheading Islamic counterparts. Convenient thought, but utter nonsense, unless Socialist can site some current examples of Christian murder and mayhem against their Muslim brothers and sisters.

Given the mission statement of al Qaida and the stoneage management style of the Taliban, killing as many of them as possible would make sense even if they were Godless heathens–or Baptists, for that matter.

Hanitized can be excused for missing the shepard’s point–it is nuanced. I believe the Shepard was cautioning the flock that the Belgians find it necessary to cancel their New Years Eve celbration because they are sniveling, politically correct cowards–like the congressional Democrats.

and like the Democrats here today, they demanded everyone tolerate everything they wanted to be tolerated and not tolerate everything they felt was intolerable – to them.

Hmmm? Well THAT sounds interesting. But here’s the catch on this lie, HOW DO YOU DIFFER FROM THAT remark Nieman?

I can’t wait to see this!

Hannitized…..

Lighten up, for pete’s sake.

I have this vision of you crouched over your computer in your mommy’s basement (okay, maybe over the garage), fingers flying as you pound the keyboard (okay, maybe one finger), tiny flecks of foam forming in the corners of your mouth as you express your righteous rage (okay, spout nonsense) at me.

Have you had your shots?

Lighten up, man (Okay, woman or whatever)…it’s just a political debate about my opinion. I don’t expect to agreed with by everyone.

If however you approach me with respect

meh.

Yes the UK and US had the same interests in the Pacific but the Japanese and Germans never worked together. They just happened to be two monstrous regimes that existed at the same time.

Rubber cricket.

Religious extremism is a disease, period.

As is socialism, only not nearly as virulent or nasty!

You’re my ex-wife, aren’t you?

Are you fantasizing about me now? Please….stop.

Because no matter what I say you retort with a thoughtless, name calling tirade.

Thoughtless? That’s a riot.

Do I name call you? Yes. Guess why genius? Because your broad brush attacks on the left….INCLUDE ME! Gee, you think you can figure it out now??

Or are your irrational and uninformed conclusions excluding me in someway? I would like to know how you view varying nuances between the Democrats and American Left. Hint…were not talking about the FAR LEFT.

By the way, moron, the term “calling a spade a spade” has nothing to do with race or racism.

Really? Ya think? Why don’t you tell me where I said it did?

As for the issue being about safety – why is that? It’s because they’ve allowed the Islamists to spew their bile unchecked and the results are what you see now.

You see? And you call me moronic? That is PURE LOGICAL BACKFLIPPING by any definition.

In fact, it is so screwy I hardly know where to start to debate that completely thoughtless remark? Would you like to engage in a debate about causal factors that relate to homegrown terrorists attacks? Or, are you even talking about Homegrown attacks? Who knows? Because this post was so poorly written and so poorly addressing actual examples and facts, I cant fricking tell!

Two: Starve the troll; don’t take the bait. Don’t be a foolish trout biting a rubber cricket.

Two, take his advice…..STOP TALKING TO ME….PLEASE. You have nothing of substance to offer, you couldn’t make a legitimate point with a knife and a wooden stick and additionally…..YOURE A FUCKING MORON who has nothing to say except…Socialism.

So, the fascist/Marxist element within Kurdistan is terroristic? What a surprise! /sarcasm That doesn’t justify calling the Kurds terrorists in general.

Not all Mullahs preach a message of hate and intolerance.

But Al Qaeda is not Saddam.

Here’s your error. All Islamic terrorists share the same ultimate goal, just like Hitler’s ultimate goal was to make the entire world “Aryan”. Get it?
Even though Hitler wanted the entire world to be Aryan, he formed alliances with non-Aryan countries. This didn’t mean he wasn’t in pursuit of his ultimate goal, only that he was smart enough to do what was practical in that moment. I guess you don’t understand this relatively simple concept.

MOFAL: I am not insisting you have any particular beliefs or bias. You accused me of racial prejudice based on ignorance, to demonstrate how ludicrous that is, I threw them back in your face, and I understand why you don’t like it.

Facts: Please take any of your comments and tell me which statements you have made that were backed up by documented facts? You may disagree with what I say, but I have made clear references to documented facts to support my views.

Your evident hatred for an entire race and religion is a contradiction to your faith.

My faith is about defense of life, when someone comes into my home, even my national home to kill my family, even my national family, to save life I may have to kill them. The Islamic terrorists have come into my national and my global home to force their will on the world through rape, torture, terrorism and mass murder. In defense of life my late son, grandson and nephew have risked their lives to save lives. We don’t hate the enemy, but we will kill them to save lives.

You say you recognize everyones right to live in peace and that sounds great. When the so-called “Palestinians” kill innocent Jews inside Israel, the Israeli nation’s leaders have an obligation to defend their people, they have a right to live in peace; but as Robert108 pointed out, under forces of Islamic Facism the miltant groups inside so-called “Palestinian” territories don’t want peace, they want every Jew on earth dead. So, if you realy want peace, then condemn the Islamic murderers that want no peace as long as Israel exists and who murder innocent people to appease the bloodthirsty idol of theirs – Allah.

Please do not preach to us about the superiority of Europe. We bailed you all out twice in the last century at the cost of the lives, healthy bodies and prosperity of many Americans. We love England, but the rest are socialist turds.

Neiman,

I didnt see anything in Mano’s response that talked about the superiority of Europe, let alone any effort to “preach” it. I think you are the only one who actually “preaches”.

And what does the fact that we support our allies have to do with anything? Further, your history seems to be quite poor, we engauged in WWII because we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Lastly, don’t speak for the US as if you represent all of us. I happen to think our European allies deserve a bit more respect. After all, they are the ones who “bailed out” president Bush on the Iraq war. Without Blair, I doubt half the country would have bought off on it, let alone the rest of the world.

We too have a process of law about expelling people; but if you have a law about not expelling snakes from your bed and you allow them to stay there while you work out the means to extricate them, you can get bit in the butt and die waiting.

Ahhh, so now the cat is finally out of the bag. What you really want is to send Muslims home for NO reason, other than you think ALL Muslims are snakes. Pathetic. Your religious bias is clouding your judgement, i think.

First, don’t allow even one more Islamic snake in, then one by one start throwing the other snakes out, or don’t come crying to us when they take over and you have to bow to Mecca every day or die and they stone your daughter to death for showing too much flesh around her eyes. Your reactions thus far are nationally suicidal, so has ours been, we all like to wait until after we get a fatal cancer before we take such things seriously.

The Cuckoo clock has just cuckoo’d. Is this how YOU feel Pilgrim?

Can you provide one bit of evidence that shows we defend the Muslim extremists who call for the destruction of our country, within our country, by allowing them to stay?

These guy are not playing games, they are willing to die and rape, steal, torture and murder to take over Europe for that pig allah that the child molestor and murderer Mohammed made up to control others and get rich.

You have gone off the deepend my friend. Your religeon has clouded your judgement and your hatred or intolerance makes you someone that Bush calls vile. Your own president thinks you are a wrong. What about that Neiman?

These guy are not playing games, they are willing to die and rape, steal, torture and murder to take over Europe for that pig allah that the child molestor and murderer Mohammed made up to control others and get rich.

You know, the popular belief in Europe is that the US arrived late to both WW1 and WW2.

Neiman, you wouldn’t recognise a fact if it jumped up and bit you on the arse.
I have never expressed a dislike for the Jews, nor an affection for the Palestinians. I believe everyone has a right to have a home and if they’ve lived on land for fifty years then I think they should be able stay there.

It is interesting that you had to draw on resources that are nearly a century old or older to justify your case, whereas genetic ‘fingerprinting’ shows that the ‘Palestinians’ are native to the region and share a genetic heritage with the Jewish ethnic group. You can’t refute that.

It is easy to recognise your pseudo-religious bigotry against the non-Jewish residents of the region for what it is and I will not get dragged down to your base level.

It is interesting that you had to draw on resources that are nearly a century old or older to justify your case, whereas genetic ‘fingerprinting’ shows that the ‘Palestinians’ are native to the region and share a genetic heritage with the Jewish ethnic group. You can’t refute that.

(1) So, if Muslims become a majority in Britain and live there 50 years, you’ll give it to them? What claptrap!
(2) There isn’t any such ethnic group as Palestinians, so how can they be genetically linked to anyone? If you are trying to link Arabs and other people that have at various times lived in so-called Palestine and Jews, yes there is a very, very distant and faint genetic link, so what? I have already demonstrated that there is no evidence of any large, stable population of TransJordainians(Arabs) in Israel until after 1948, and the few that were there were nomadic people and they made no claims to the land.

It is easy to recognise your pseudo-religious bigotry against the non-Jewish residents of the region for what it is and I will not get dragged down to your base level.

(1) I can see your anti-Semitism and anti-Zionist prejudice in all your statements. Also, I can detect the spirit of Chamberlain style appeasment of Islamic terrorism in your every word. (2) Not once have you presented any facts, only opinions, and like assholes, everyone has one. (3) I defend the Jews right to their more than three millennia historical claims on Israel as their homeland and I reject the claims of people that have only occupied any part of Israel after 1948, when pigs like Arafat made false claims to that area as an historic homeland, which even he knew to be a lie, it was a ruse to assert absolute Arab-Muslim dominance over the entire Middle East and to carry out Mohammed’s demands that every Jew on earth be killed and Israel taken as an Islamic land before the Mahdi, the Islamic Savior could return. (4) I am against murderous Muslims that are killing all over the world to force Islam on every human being. (5) While I am a proud Christian and I support His people the Jews, I have not made one statement of hate towards so-called “Palestinians,” only documented opposition to their false claims to that land.

Given. The Islamic hatred for the Jews can be linked to the close relationship between the Nazis and prominent Islamic clerics of the 1930s, including Mufti Haj Amin el-Husseini.

Your attempts to relate the Jews taking possession of Israel and Judea to the American Indians and the Welsh – Irish to claims on Britian are specious at best.

What planet are you on, Neiman? It was you who said they had a claim to the land because they had controlled it for a millennium between 3 and 2 thousand years ago and some had lived there ever since. The application of the same reasoning to the Welsh/Irish or to the Native Americans is entirely valid. However, my point was that is not enough justification to cede land to one people or another. More recent events present a much stronger and more compelling case for the legitimacy of the State of Israel.

The “international community”(as you put it, an entirely fictional entity, IMO) simply recognized Israel’s right to exist as a homeland for the Jews, which it had been throughout history. It wasn’t an area that was arbitrarily decided, like an Indian reservation in the US, but the traditional Jewish homeland.
The only reason there is hatred and division there now is from the more recent(in history) Islamic hatred of Jews, which didn’t exist when the Jews originally lived in that area. I know you know this.
The “international community” simply recognized what has always been true.

Once again, Man, genetics has nothing to do with the present conflict. Without pathological Islamic hatred of Jews, and without the effects of Islamic imperialism, the area would still be peacefully occupied by a diverse population.

Good stuff, Neiman!

Neiman, are you being anti-Semitic? Calling residents of the Palestinian Territories ‘animals’ suggests that you are. The genes of natives to the region suggest they have lived there for thousands of years, perhaps longer even than you believe the universe has existed.
Palestinian refers to someone who makes the Palestinian Territories their home, just as American refers to someone who makes the United States of America their home or Briton refers to a resident of Great Britain.

…after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD…

There’s the money quote. There were no Islamics in the area originally, so I guess it’s all a matter of how you define “related”, isn’t it? The entire basis for the Israeli-”Palestinian” conflict is the enmity the Islamics have for Jews. Eliminate Islamic hate, and the “problem” disappears.

I said there were parallels, and made quite a point of it.

Dude, stop using words when you don’t know the definitions!

Parallel:

–Synonyms 2. like, alike. 10. equivalent, equal, mate, duplicate, twin, double.

Now, once again I will show that your likeness arent at all the equivalent.

I clearly stated that I was comparing the war in Iraq with Islamic terrorism to WWII against Nazism.

Hitler, with his racial purity doctrine, essentially declared war on everyone not of the “Aryan race”, in the same way that Islam declared war on “the infidels”.

Saddam declared war on Muslim, unlike Hiter who never declared war on the Aryans

To summarize: even though the Japanese attacked us, we also went to war against Hitler.

We went to war with Hitler because he declared war on us, Saddam did not declare war on the US.

Al Qaeda declared war against the US during the Clinton admin, but he did nothing about it, much like Hitler declaring war on our European allies, while the US didn’t respond.

Al Qaeda declared war on us, yes. But Al Qaeda is not Saddam. Hitler declared war on us, Saddam did not. I dont even know what you are talking about in regards to the Brits.

The obvious fact is that your comparisons are terrible. Then you went on to state that they were the same. Ill find the quote.

Are you suggesting that if we exterminate all the Muslims, then
“Palestinians” won’t be a problem any more?

Not even close. I was simply saying that removal of one factor would drastically change the situation in that part of the world. That removal is up to the so-called “Palestinians” and their Islamic terrorists supporters, of course.
It’s an intellectual exercise, Man. What do you call what you did?

You came on this blog spitting insults; if you now want to change your style, please feel free to do so. None of us is responsible for your choice of style of discourse.

Maybe you are confusing Fascism, a political movement, with fascism, which is a style of relating to others through group membership. It comes from the Latin fasces, meaning “bundle”. The radical Islamists are definitely fascists, from their internecine struggles to their enmity for all infidels. Hitler first eliminated all other political factions in Germany, then went on to make war against non-Aryans, which is what the Holocaust was all about. He not only slaughtered Jews, he slaughtered anyone who didn’t fit his model of racial purity. I think the parallels are obvious.

All Islamic terrorists share the same ultimate goal,

No they don’t. They do not all share the ideology of Al-Qaeda. Some just want to have autonomy for their ethnic or religious group. Kurds, Palestinians, Kashmiris most likely couldn’t care less about al-Qaeda’s new Islamic Caliphate, they just want freedom from their oppressors.

Smaller 2Hotel: “Wow, spamnitized….squawk….Socilaism…squawk…ignore him because hes not part of our circle jerk…squawk….i get off by trying to get you guys to gang up on him….squawk. Socialism and Communism.”

Smaller Robert108: “Rubber crickett:…..I don’t care about your fact, and I have no facts myself….but I have an opinion….therefore, you loose.”

Smaller Bat: “H, your’e not educated….squawk…..now, getting back to non-sequiturs….squawk….and let me make my final non-point, not relating to the debate, squawk”

Is there anyone out there with a brain?

So there you have it. More material than you probably know what to do
with.

Pure leftie terrorist apologist garbage. You seem to have run out of your own wrong opinions, and now are reduced to cutting and pasting the wrong opinions of others.

Ken: Right you are; don’t forget that Saddam wrote a copy of the Koran in his own blood. Some secularist.

Man: In fact, the stated policy of the Clinton administration toward terrorism was to treat it as a law enforcement problem. This is how he justified gutting the military and our intel capabilities, thus making us vulnerable to the escalated terrorism he enabled by his weak approach to same.

I think the parallels are obvious.

Excuse me for being slow. Are we drawing parallels between Hitler and Islamic terrorists, or between Hitler and Saddam?

Damn, y’all had it screaming at its computer again, wish I had stayed up later.

sannitized, the fact that Saddam said he supported all who opposed America and the west just does not count, right? The fact he ran training camps for terrorists, inside Iraq and gave physical and monetary support to run same in other countries just does not count, right?

Now screech and scream at your computer some more. That is just too funny.

Ken, don’t sweat missing any of its links, it has been on the 10 word regimen since its second comment at SA.

Rubber cricket: Just because the Islamofascists are so crazy that they also kill each other over doctrinal differences

Walking contradiction: “Just because the Islamofascists are so crazy that they also kill each other over doctrinal differences…” – Robert 10:19pm Jan 3,2008

“Hitler, with his racial purity doctrine, essentially declared war on everyone not of the “Aryan race”, in the same way that Islam declared war on “the infidels”. ” – Robert 2:15pm Jan 3, 2008

So lets see here Robert, what is your point? Lets review:

1) The Nazis declared war on everyone not of the “Aryan Race in the same way Islam declared war on “The infidels”.
2) That Islam declared war on everyone not Islamic, like the Nazis did to non Aryans
3) But that they actually DID declare ware on Islamic people, UNLIKE THE NAZIS
4) But even though they DID attack and war with other Islamic people, UNLIKE THE NAZIS, it somehow not contradicting your point

See the enormous hole in your logic?

Rubber cricket: Once again, Saddam wrote his own copy of the Koran in his own blood. Some “secularist”, eh?

Hey R o b e r t,

Why don’t you point me to ANY credible reference of history that doesnt identify Saddam as a secular dictator with a Pan-Aram secular government, and instead refers to him as a Islamic Fascist? Can you? Do you have the courage to defend your lunatic position? No, you don’t!

Further, because (in your sophomoric mind) you confuse being a Muslim with being a Islamic Facist, it doesn’t mean they are the same thing. I know, I know, that little bit of nuance is too difficult for you to understand.

R108, I can see how you would perceive Saddam as ‘the Hitler of the ME’ and a terrorist at the same time.
He was a dictator who ordered the slaughter of thousands of minority peoples and unilaterally invaded his neighbours, whilst also giving cash incentives to the families of suicide attackers in Gaza and the West Bank.

Man: You don’t think Hitler came to power through terrorist tactics? Ever hear of blitzkrieg?

Where did I say Hitler didn’t engage in terrorist activities? I draw parallels which support your position and you criticise me. Duh!

Probably because it is a Republican smear that was never true.

Lestat,

You are, not surprisingly, wrong. Again!

The truth is that it was Sudan’s minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, who first described his government’s offer to turn bin Laden over to US officials, in much the same manner as had been arranged with the French for the capture of the infamous Carlos the Jackal.

The Sudanese offer was originally relayed by American businessman http://www.nationalreview.com/ijaz/ijaz200403230855.aspMansoor Ijaz.

Ironically, there is also the recording of former President Bill Clinton explaining why he could not accept the offer of bin Laden because there was no outstanding warrant for his arrest and no indictment at the time, thus confirming both the offer and the FACT that the Clinton administration regarded Islamist terrorism as a law enforcement problem, and NOT a national security concern. The recording is available here.

Like much of what Clinton has stated over the years, his promise to bring to justice those responsible for the first WTC bombing, the two US embassy bombings, the Khobar Towers bombing and the attack on the USS Cole, was just so much tear-soaked bullshit.

Now I know you’re just another leftie idiot.

I offered truce, you seem to choose to prefer insults. Fine!

If I am an idiot than you are fucking retarded. Because all of your nonsense opion (not even supported with evidence by right-wing loons) goes to show your belief system is pathetic and moronic. Give me a break!

Pure leftie terrorist apologist garbage. You seem to have run out of your own wrong opinions, and now are reduced to cutting and pasting the wrong opinions of others.

Whoop, there it s. More right-wing radio buzzwords. Weeeeee!

Look dude, I can show you for the fool you are with 20 questions, yes or no answers. Care to step up? Moron!

The words and actions of the Islamofascists illustrate the truth of my words.

Um, maybe, depending on who you are talking about. But you can’t get the actions of Al Qaeda to stick to Saddam! THAT is the whole point of your stupid, high school level argument.

Al Qaeda declared war against the US during the Clinton admin, but he did nothing about it, much like Hitler declaring war on our European allies, while the US didn’t respond.

I have to give this one a second go, because it so profoundly stupid, I missed some deeper non-parallels by responding to the obvious ones.

1) Hilter declared war on Europeans – Got it!
2) Al Qaeda declared war on US – Got it!

How are the two the same?????? Oh, they arent! Got it. Go on?

3) Clinton did nothing about the declaration of war from Al Qaeda (except draw up a plan to attack Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and hand it over to Bush, who in turn, did nothing) – Got it!
4) FDR did nothing about the declaration of war on Europe….like Clinton did nothing about Al Qaeda declaring war on the US (excluding above) – Got it (again dissimilar comparisons)

Not to mention your whole point was to compare Iraq to Germany. Now you went and clouded the whole thing further by mixing in Al Qaeda.

You seriously can’t think clearly. R O B E R T.

Excuse me for being slow. Are we drawing parallels between Hitler and Islamic terrorists, or between Hitler and Saddam?

Both; they are really not that separate. I guess if you want to create a separate bunch of Islamic terrorists who are more local, you may, but I think that is foolish.
The drawing of a parallel isn’t a matter of an exact comparison, but one that sheds light on the strategy for dealing with both cases. In both Japan and Germany, for instance, it was necessary to reconstruct those societies, a job which only began with military victory, and the situation in the ME is very similar, IMO.

Saddam Hussein has been dead for a year. His devotion to fascism is a well-established fact. So, what was your point, anyway?

Ok Bat, why don’t you support that assertion with evidence? Prefereably something other than a quote from Victor Davis Hanson, some random right-wing blog or an Atheist website will do nicely. Challenge one!

Look, if you were half as adept at reasoned, fact-based discussion and argument as you are at name-calling, insults, and willful obfuscation of reality, you might be a worthy opponent. But, alas, you are neither adept nor worthy.

Dude, did you come of age in the 70s, because your pompous arrogance is hysterical to me. You’re like the Ron Burgundy of Say Anything.

Why is the facts that I already provided not enough for you? Was it too much for you to comprehend? Or, are you like Robert and unlike Ken in regards to the information I provided from Wikipedia? Exactly what sort of right-wing spinster am I dealing with?

You have yet to make any sort of fact-based point worth discussing,

Blah, blah, blah….finger pointing, blah, blah, blah, “I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.”

I am not the one who said Hitler and Saddam were identical, I said at best there are some similarities. I am not the one who said WWII and the war in Iraq are exactly the same, Robert did. I showed the disconnect between that fantasy and reality. Then the conversation turned for the worse and Robert said that Saddam was part of the same evil we are fighting with the Islamic Facists, except for Saddam was not at all like the Taliban or Al Qaeda. It’s really very simple and thus, impossible for you to understand.

and you are apparently incapable of any sort of exchange without resorting to a tedious assortment of small-minded insults.

I have yet to see you start a response without talking about education. Please, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

You demand that others here pay attention to your assertions, answer your questions, and respond to your crudely crafted criticisms, while you steadfastly refuse to extend the same courtesies you demand of others.

Excuse me, but I always respond to every point, stupid or not. I never demand I am treated courteously unless they offer it up first. If someone want’s to play nice, I will in return. I have made this very clear. My only real flaw is that I loose it when I get into a debate and someone never provides facts, ignores my facts at the same time and then continues to provide opinion as fact and pretend they are debating. Sorry Bat, that sort of lunacy is maddening.

Just support your position with facts, thats all I ask.

Well Lobotomized, you think you are some kind of expert on recent ME history, but you seem to be strangely unaware of Saddam Hussein’s Islamic ties.

Well why don’t you support your claim with evidence Ken??? Are you also opposed to supporting your position with facts and evidence?

Do you think the facts I provided are lies? Or can you simply not read?

Far from being a pure secularist, he was engaged in a huge mosque building program in Iraq before the 2003 invasion, and was already planning to build the world’s largest mosque when he was overthrown.

What the heck are you talking about? What does having ties to Islam have to do with being a Terrorist? Are you saying all people who are islamic are terrorists? Please tell me you are saying that. Yes Saddam was a devout Mulsim, so what? We have Mosques in OUR country and they don’t push Sharia law?

I guess that blows a big hole in that liberal myth you cherish that Saddam was some kind of enemy of Islam.

He was an enemy of Islamic Facism. The right wing spin that they are one in the same fly’s in the face of your President’s belief system. Is he a lefty as well? Give me a break Ken.

One example of your ability to make sense:

My ability to make sense? Thank you, because you are trying to imply that i “don’t” make sense. Don’t is the same thing as “do not”, unless either of those two examples are in your sentence, then you are saying I make sense. Now what were you saying about high school? R o b e r t ?

This is a parallel(get it?) to you lefties ranting that Iraq didn’t attack us on 9/11.

They didn’t and they werent attacking ANYONE during our war in Afghanistan. They had little to no military power, you idiot. There is no parallel between Hitler, Germany, Saddam and Iraq. Only in your spinning right-wing head!

Step by step: The Japanese attacked us on Dec 7, 1941, and our first offensive against Hitler was in North Africa on the date you mentioned.

Yes, and heres the hint Genius….we didn’t attack Hilter because we were “bailing out the Europeans”. We attacked the Germans because they declared war on us as did Italy. YOU IDIOT!

To ‘splain it to you again, this is about military strategy, not stupid leftie politics.

NO….NO….NO!!! It’s because we were attacked and because THEY DECLARED WAR ON US!

To summarize: even though the Japanese attacked us, we also went to war against Hitler. Imagine that!

Yes, you idiot, because they declared war on us and they were invading EVERY FRICKING COUNTRY IN EUROPE!!! There is no parallel! You moron!

Al Qaeda declared war against the US during the Clinton admin, but he did nothing about it, much like Hitler declaring war on our European allies, while the US didn’t respond.

Genuis…you are making comparisons and parallels to IRAQ,…..and SADDAM!! Not Al Qaeda! Another, non-parallel.

My entire discussion of WWII events was to illustrate parallels between that war and the present one.

So let’s see here, we attacked Germany, like we did Iraq, but Iraq didnt declare war on us, nor were they invading other countries at the time. Got it. NICE PARALLEL.

Hahaha.

Further, we attacked al qaeda because they attacked us on 9/11 like we did Japan after attacking us on Dec 7th. Got it. And? What does that have to do with us “bailing out” the British???? Nothing!

There are a great many parallels between the present war in Iraq against the greater threat of Islamic terrorism and the war against the Nazis in WWII.

Like what? You haven’t made a single one yet.

The matter of a military draft is nonsensical; our present volunteer military is far superior.

And therefore, another non parallel..because Saddam didnt have the military power Hitler had.

To target allied troops and to destabilise Iraq, duh!

True, but it goes a lot deeper, Zarqawi and al Qaeda were there before we overthrew Saddam, and before there were Allied troops and when Iraq was a “stable” dictatorship.

The Kashmiris are taking advantage of the new wave of Islamofascism to advance their own agenda, and the so-called “Palestinians” are simply liars.

Sovereignty of Kashmir (and Jammu) has been in dispute since 1947, when both Pakistan and India got their independence from British rule and there have been terrorist attacks in both countries since that time. Just because the conflict hasn’t been in the American news much, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been in the news at all. (Perhaps you should try listening to the BBC World Service occasionally)

Again, so-called ‘Palestinians’. They have a right to live on and own land that their ancestors owned. Yes Israel has a right to exist as well, but to deny them the right to exist is anti-semitism comparable to some the more bigoted contributors on this blog.

Not to mention your whole point was to compare Iraq to Germany.

Wrong. I clearly stated that I was comparing the war in Iraq with Islamic terrorism to WWII against Nazism.
You confuse a country with a movement. Typical of the lefties. Saddam was the Hitler of the ME, before we took him out.

Hitler, with his racial purity doctrine, essentially declared war on everyone not of the “Aryan race”, in the same way that Islam declared war on “the infidels”. Read up on the National Socialist Party and the Koran. You might find it educational.

“Drawing up a plan” isn’t the same as taking action, which was my point. Any idiot can “draw up a plan”. When someone declares war on your country, a President should do something more than “draw up a plan” and wait for the next guy to come into office. Clinton was not a leader.
Al Qaeda grew to power during the Clinton administration. Clinton was more responsible for Al Qaeda’s rise to power than FDR was for Hitler’s rise to power. Of course, Carter started the whole thing by handing power to the ayatollahs in Iran in the first place…

Thanks for your anecdotal emo view of our military. I’m sure the solid soldiers don’t want to hang out with you, so your experience is self-fulfilling.
I was speaking militarily, not emotionally.
I guess “chasing girls” isn’t a factor in spousal fidelity, eh?

Not all Mullahs preach a message of hate and intolerance.

Not 100%, of course, but what percentage do you find acceptable? Let’s talk in practical terms, not philosophical ones.

Even if the estimates are correct and 0.1% of Muslims are militants…

I have never seen an estimate anywhere near that low. The ones I have seen are 5-10%, and that doesn’t count the ones that are waiting to see how it all turns out…

Anna,

Thanks for the concern. Honestly, I think that was a very reasonable request.

But there is more to this than may appear on the surface, trust me. My girlfriend is a director, film maker and we are thinking about working on a project together for the BBC and PBS. The time I spend on these blogs provide helpful insights and material for the project.

Besides, I do belong to intelligent blogs where differing opinion is respected. But it’s the broken sites that provide the important material. I never participate in sites where my opinion is merely echoed or regurgitated in another form. I actually choose to challenge my belief system. My viewpoints today arent a result of sticking to a left-wing echo-chamber, but are formulated positions based on arguments I have had with formidable opponents.

Hopefully your concern was sincere and not merely another stab in the back as so many of the comments on this site are. But you are very astute and your point is valid and in most cases your advice should be heeded. But not this time.

Why and how the US entered WW1

WW1 was nearly won when the US joined, though the help was gratefully received nonetheless.

WW2 was not restricted to Europe. It was Japan’s actions in China that ultimately led the US to join the war.

Rubber cricket: I would love to reply to your rant, but nothing you have said either makes any sense, or is internally consistent. Slow down, have someone who can think clearly ‘splain things to you, and try again.

One example of your ability to make sense:

Interestingly enough, our first offensive against Hitler was in North Africa, which didn’t attack us on Dec 7, 1941, ….

Hey you completely ignorant Pub………your either stupid or lying. We didnt have our first offensive with Hitler, or in Africa until November 8, 1942. YOU IDIOT!!

This is a parallel(get it?) to you lefties ranting that Iraq didn’t attack us on 9/11. Step by step: The Japanese attacked us on Dec 7, 1941, and our first offensive against Hitler was in North Africa on the date you mentioned. To ‘splain it to you again, this is about military strategy, not stupid leftie politics. To summarize: even though the Japanese attacked us, we also went to war against Hitler. Imagine that!

Al Qaeda declared war against the US during the Clinton admin, but he did nothing about it, much like Hitler declaring war on our European allies, while the US didn’t respond. Another parallel.
My entire discussion of WWII events was to illustrate parallels between that war and the present one.

There are a great many parallels between the present war in Iraq against the greater threat of Islamic terrorism and the war against the Nazis in WWII.
The matter of a military draft is nonsensical; our present volunteer military is far superior.

BTW, “loose” is the opposite of “tight”. “Lose” is the opposite of “win”. Graduate from high school before you try to play with the adults.

Hannitized…..

Lighten up, for pete’s sake.

Oh yeah…i forgot…it’s JUST a blog. And you are ONLY talking about…what again?

“Political correctness is a slow form of suicide for Western democracies. The Islamists see that quite clearly and you can bet they high-five (or whatever it is Islamists do for spontaneous celebration – beat ther wives, maybe) every time we defend their right to say they want to destroy us.”- Pilgrim

Oh yeah…..i forgot. You only wan’t us to send Muslims back to their country? I don’t know why, because I dont think you can come up with a single instance where we defend the Muslims rights here in America to say they wan’t to destroy us, without being investigated by the FBI, CIA or taking into some court. Can you?

Or are you merely talking out your fanny again? Because that it what it looks like to me. In addition to wanting a Masse deportation of Muslims I guess? Who knows? You have yet to makean intelligent point

I have this vision of you crouched over your computer in your mommy’s basement (okay, maybe over the garage), fingers flying …

Oh yeah, my nonsense of asking you to make a frickin argument instead on ranting right-wing lunacy. And you said this is a DEBATE???????? Hahaha.

And again, I really dont care what you think of me….im not here to “impress” you. I am here to show how stupid the right is with their nonsensical right wing blather (and how dangerous). Oh excuse me…Memes. You really think your making an argument?

Have you had your shots?

Look brother, you want to have a “cool” contest with me? Just say the word! What do you do for fun? Besides..um…”debate”? Anything exciting? What goes down in ND? I live in Hawaii, i have been surfing for over 24yrs.. I surf the North Shore this time of year….im in technology for a livin….i date girls…lots of them when im single. Right now Im dating a nice American born Brazilian girlie who is a director in film.

Your turn.

Lighten up, man (Okay, woman or whatever)…it’s just a political debate about my opinion. I don’t expect to agreed with by everyone.

So you say, yet you never actually…..debate. You know? Your premise is heavily flawed and when I asked you to step up, you make your silly jokes and run away. It’s what you always do. NO SUBSTANCE.

Stand up, be a man, speak your peace or shut your pie hole! Because it seems to me that a post about the beginning of the end of the Western Civilization is sort of important to us. Isn’t it?

I think your a phony, a charlatan who doesnt have an original thought of his own to articulate. You exist here merely for your little laughs at our countries expense.

You may not think so, but IT IS important to have responsible political discourse in our country. And blogs and people like you are not only frauds but youre much worse, dangerous.

You may not think your opinon matters, but you only stoak the fires of ignorance and hatred towards the left…..50% of your country. Nice job!

Man: By “Islamic terrorists”, I don’t mean anyone using terrorism who happens to be Islamic; I mean those radical Islamists who are using terrorism as a strategy to invade and conquer the West. Sorry if I was unclear about that.

I keep explaining this to you, sannitized. No one here gives a fuck what you think or say. You are just another socialist asshole. End of story.

To target Allied troops? To try to destabilise Iraq? For those fantastic dates?

To come to the aid and support of their fellow terrorists. Duh.

Wrong. In the same way that 9/11 finally got the American people out of their Clinton-enabled denial of the threat of Islamic terrorism, Pearl Harbor merely convinced the American people that we needed to end our isolation and fight the war that was already in progress, both in the Pacific and in Europe.

Yeah? And? You didnt state anything differently than I did. Here’s a hint, R O B E R T…….what war were we fighting when Clinton was in office? Therefore, if they are similar, then we didnt actually get involved until we were attacked, not because of some overwhelming desire to help the british. We sat around and let a lot of people die before we did anything, officially.

Interestingly enough, our first offensive against Hitler was in North Africa, which didn’t attack us on Dec 7, 1941, ….

Hey you completely ignorant Pub………your either stupid or lying. We didnt have our first offensive with Hitler, or in Africa until November 8, 1942. YOU IDIOT!!

Fortunately for us, Europe, Asia and Russia, we didn’t cut and run, like you lefties have wanted us to do from the terrorists.

Well I was for a draft, not “cutting and running”, asshole. Further, we won WWII with a draft! Why are the Repubicans so afraid to win? Because they dont want to loose the office by instituting a draft!

Neiman, I didn’t say anything about Islam being a religion of peace. I merely posted a counterpoint to the quotes you had posted. And before you suggest that I inferred that by posting a counterpoint, the inference is all you.
At least you got to use the word ‘bloody’ again

Yes, I like that bloody word!

MOFAL: You spoke about your Muslim friends, you were passive in expressing your concerns about kicking militant Muslims out unless you followed the Law, and then the positive Islamic verse, so please tell me why I was unjust to infer from these facts that you do not see Islam as clear and present danger to your nation and the world?

As a member of the British nation and having expertise in the English language far beyond mine, wouldn’t you imply and I infer?

Japan and the Axis powers really were not true allies, but were our enemies at the same time.

Actually, they were allies enough to share nuclear technology. It has been discovered that Japan had some nukes in caves that were close to being ready to use before we nuked them in ’45.

Neiman, I am not attempting to belittle the influence that the US had on both WW1 and WW2, nor to denigrate the brave men who gave their lives and limbs in defence of liberty therein.

No, thats NOT what I said. I said people like Pilgrim scare me more. Because Mulsims who say they want to kill us in our country….ARE WATCHED. And if memory serves, how many times have we been attacked since 9/11? Rest assured we will be again, but it wont be because lefties defending Muslims rights to talk about killing us. YOU CANT provide any evidence to support that argument.
…
Why is it scary? Why? Because he is dreadfully incorrect and he is a promoter of hate. Its dividing this country unnecessarily when we should be standing together. We should be looking for similarities, not IMAGINED differences that come in form of a strawman argument.

Well, first, Hannitized, I wouldn’t go around saying “Hey you moron jackasses, we all need to be friends.” You engage in ad hominims more than anyone else here. Then, you have the unmitigated gall to accuse others of being divisive. You’re a prick, and then you bitch that people don’t like you.

Moreover, you still haven’t showed me why your comments shouldn’t be considered idiocy. “He’s scary because he’s not being watched!” Um, what? He’s posting this on an insanely popular blog that YOU are reading. Regardless, how does that make him scarier?

So, I stand by my comments, which weren’t straw men arguments, that saying that Pilgrim (who’s opinions you don’t agree with) is scarier than people who want to kill you is far more irresponsible and divisive than anything Pilgrim has said, it’s also imbecility.

The only straw men here are the ones you’re propping up. I don’t have to prove that leftists are going to get us killed, because I never claimed any such thing. In fact, I even stipulated that Pilgrim was an idiot (if only for the sake of argument). I never said I agreed with him, and, in reality, I think his point wasn’t argued terribly well. Yet you come in, guns blazing, saying he’s scarier than violent Muslims. I’ll repeat your comments:

Truth be told, I am almost more scared of people like you than the “hate preaching, unwashed Mullah from Scotland to Prague” because when they say something stupid, it makes them easy to watch, because were looking out for these guys, but idiots like YOU who say stupid things all the time and its not recognized as the lunacy it is….it just multiplies through the irrational, illogical and sophomoric minds of the sheep you shepherd. All the while you breed a fear that is far worse than any verbal thread a moronic Muslim might make. Because it’s obvious its the quit ones we need to keep an eye on in our society.

What in there is responsible, let alone intelligent, criticism?

And where did you rationally critique me? “Republican circle jerk”? Yea I “insulted you”, but I backed it up with a reason. Pilgrim doesn’t set social policy. He doesn’t command an army. He’s some dude who spouts off his beliefs on a web site that people read, and even, disagree with him on. It’s not promoting hate to say that Europe is giving in to violent extremists. Or even that those who cause violence get their visas or green cards revoked. While his argument is clumsy, it hardly is hate speech. And the overall point is correct.

So, before you accuse others of being divisive, setting up strawmen, and ad hominims, maybe you need to do a little self reflection.
As Christ said “Before you take the splinter out of your friend’s eye, you must remove the beam from your own.”

Neiman, it ain’t gonna happen. As I have said, the cultural identities within Europe are too strong to allow it.

Please do not preach to us about the superiority of Europe. We bailed you all out twice in the last century at the cost of the lives, healthy bodies and prosperity of many Americans. We love England, but the rest are socialist turds.

With all due respect, sir, I did not preach about the superiority of anyone. I would suggest that your comment was a little hypocritical, considering your first sentence.

When you refer to the rest of Europe being ‘socialist turds’, do you mean every person in every country (except Britain) in Europe or are you referring to the states themselves and their political leanings?

r108

to a socialist, all religion is “extreme”,

That’s true of the anti-religious right as well.

It’s just not tolerable that people are motivated by or even led by something greater than themselves.

The allegiances are different but no less blind on the part of the secular right as well. Allegiance to the state is allegiance to some Utopian free market libertarianism without a soul.

Sorry guys, it’s the truth.

Well Lobotomized, you think you are some kind of expert on recent ME history, but you seem to be strangely unaware of Saddam Hussein’s Islamic ties. Far from being a pure secularist, he was engaged in a huge mosque building program in Iraq before the 2003 invasion, and was already planning to build the world’s largest mosque when he was overthrown.

I guess that blows a big hole in that liberal myth you cherish that Saddam was some kind of enemy of Islam.

Rubber cricket: Your every comment is a reminder of the fact that what is bad for the US is good for you lefties. Shame on you!

Wow, r, you got this eurotrash socialist moron screaming at it computer screen. Good job, Buddy!! And now all of a sudden it is some sort of big time military HERO. To f**king funny.

You know, the popular belief in Europe is that the US arrived late to both WW1 and WW2.

Better late than never for Europe!

Actually, regarding WW-II, I understand because Hitler got by with a lot and a lot or people died before we got in, but FDR did have a lot of political moves to make because most of America didn’t want another war in Europe. So, we were tardy, and that is unfortunate indeed.

As to Muslim friends, I understand that too. But, I also understand a lot about Islam, their religious writings, their past from birth until today filled with murder, and I know that if a country becomes sufficiently dominated by Islam, as in Nigeria, even moderate Muslims will turn against you if you do not convert, because they will be killed as being bad Muslims if they don’t.

Ishaq:414 “If you kill us, the true religion is ours. And to be killed for the truth is to find favor with Allah. If you think that we are fools, know that the opinion of those who oppose Islam is misleading. We are men of war who get the utmost from it. We inflict painful punishment on those who oppose us…. If you insult Allah’s Apostle, Allah will slay you. You are a cursed, rude fellow! You utter filth, and then throw it at the clean-robed, godly, and faithful One.”

Qur’an 9:23 “Believers, take not for friends your fathers and your brothers if they love disbelief above belief. If you do, you do wrong. Say: If your fathers, your sons, your families, your wives, relatives and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and striving hard and fighting in His Cause, then wait till Allah brings about His torment.”

Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”

Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allah (i.e., Jihad) you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you march, He will afflict and punish you with a painful torture, and put others in your place. But you cannot harm Him in the least.”

The words and actions of the Islamofascists illustrate the truth of my words.

Maybe you are confusing Fascism, a political movement, with fascism, which is a style of relating to others through group membership.

Hmmm? I am wondering if you even have an idea of when the term Islamo-Fascism started to appear in American language and how it was originally applied? It’s quite clear to me that your understanding of the definition of the term was concluded by the right-wing blogosphere and radio-talkshows that you listen to.

You refuse to provide any material that would support your notions and fantasies of what Islamo-Fascism is. Even those who support the use the term use it completely differently than you do.

Or in other words, even those who think using the word is appropriate, don’t use it the disconnected way you do.

Matthias Küntzel is a Hamburg-based political scientist and a research associate at the Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. In his book Jihad and Jew-Hatred: Islamism, Nazism and the Roots of 9/11, he traces the impact of European fascism on the Arab and Islamic world, drawing parallels between ancient prejudice and modern radicalism.[17] In an essay excerpted from his book, he writes,

“Despite common misconceptions, Islamism was born not during the 1960s but during the 1930s. Its rise was inspired not by the failure of Nasserism but by the rise of Nazism, and prior to 1951 all its campaigns were directed not against colonialism but against the Jews…Not to confront the ideological roots of Islamism–notably its well-documented connection to Nazi Jew-hatred–stymies any Western push for political, economic, and cultural modernization in the Muslim world. Yet only such modernization can split the majority of Muslims, who would benefit from social progress, from the Islamists, who are willing to die to prevent it. Without challenging the ideological roots of Islamism, it is impossible to confront the Muslim world with the real choices before it: Will it choose life and hope, or does it prefer the cult of death? Will it stand up for individual and social self-determination, or will it finally submit to the mullahs’ program of Jew-hatred and jihad?” [18]

That was the most I could find tha supports your claim. Other examples clearly show that they don’t agree with you.

In his book Terror and Liberalism, New York University journalism Professor Paul Berman “carefully teased out the intellectual origins of Islamic fundamentalism, looking primarily at Sayyid Qutb, the intellectual godfather of al-Qaeda. It was not hard to find the links: Qutb was explicitly and openly influenced by European fascism. Nor was this a merely intellectual influence: when his ideas eventually became a state ideology–in Taliban Afghanistan–it looked hideously familiar to historians of fascism, with its fanatical Jew-hatred, homophobia, misogyny, the banning of all dissent (and even of music), and the suppression of all liberal freedoms.

There is something for you….but nothing that supports your position. It’s close though.

Well, I’m here in NYC and Bloomberg already has a bunch of helicopters flying over the city to keep an eye out for those terrorists he believes are no big deal.

No doubt those NYers who believe that everyone right of Stalin are Nazis will be freaking out tongiht thinking that BushCoMcHitlerburton is after them.

MOFAL:
You are very good at expressing your ‘feelings,’ your affection for the so-called “Palestinians” and your dislike fo the Jews, but not much for using facts, are you?

“The disparate peoples often assumed and purported to be “settled Arab indigenes, for a thousand years” were in fact no more than a “heterogeneous;” that is, a community consisting of many ethnic parts, and even then with absolutely no “Palestinian” identity, and according to an official British historical analysis in 1920, there was absolutely no Arab identity either.”

“The people west of the Jordan were then and are now not Arabs, only Arabic-speaking. The bulk of the population are fellahin (peasant, farmer or agricultural laborers). In the Gaza district they are mostly of Egyptian origin; elsewhere they are of the most mixed of races, with no dominant race.”

The 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica finds the “population” of Palestine composed of so “widely differing” a group of “inhabitants” whose “ethnological affinities” create “early in the 20th century a list of no less than fifty languages” that “it is therefore no easy task to write concisely on the ethnology of Palestine.” That means there was no single or dominant ethnic identity there of note. In addition to the “Assyrian, Persian and Roman” elements of ancient times, “the short-lived Egyptian government introduced into the population an element from that country which still persists in the villages.” There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy, Turkoman settlements, a number of Persians and a fairly large Afghan colony, Motawila, long settled immigrants from Persia, tribes of Kurds, German “Templar” colonies, a Bosnian colony and the Circassian settlements placed in certain centers by the Turkish government in order to keep a restraint on the Bedouins, a large Algerian population [while] the Sudanese have been reduced in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century.

“At the start of the Zionist colonization of Palestine in the late 19th century (1800′s), the rural people there were mixed race peasants, commonly, but imprecisely, called Arabs. Most of the population were Muslims, but in the urban areas there were sizable groups of Christians (at Nazareth, Bethlehem, and Jerusalem) and of Jews (at Tsfat, Tiberias, Jerusalem, Jericho, and Hebron). At the same time Arab nationalism was developing in the Middle East in opposition to Turkish rule.”

“H. Allen Tupper, Jr. wrote in the New York Times in 1896, after having “ridden on horseback more than four hundred miles through Palestine and Syria,” that virtually the only local people he encountered were “merchantmen with their long camel trains” and “wild Bedouin tribes” that “reside in one locality not more than two months.”

The facts are: There is no such thing as a unique, ethnic Palestinian people, the Holy Land until the early 1900′s had small numbers of residents, mostly nomadic without any single national identity or historical claim to the land; and that land was historically occupied and claimed by the Jews for over one millennium before Christ and until this time. While Zionism (The establishment of a state in what the British called Palestine) started long before, it was near WW-II when the Jews having been scattered about the earth in the Diaspora, started returning to Israel in large numbers with the cry, “this year Jerusalem.” Until 1948 there was no national identity and no so-called Palestinian (Arab) claims whatsoever to that land as their country, it was only after Israel was recognized by the U.N. that the Arab National Identity movement made any claims on Israel and they had no legal case to make, but through terror they started decades of steady killing in Israel and elsewhere to try and force the International Community to give the Arabs all of Israel as their posession.

Palestine is not occupied by the Jews, Israel is wrongly occupied by TransJordanian Arabs claiming a land they didn’t even want until after 1948 and it wasn’t until after 1948 the few Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese even used the name Palestinians.

Your attempts to relate the Jews taking possession of Israel and Judea to the American Indians and the Welsh – Irish to claims on Britian are specious at best.

And the oppressors they want freed from are we Infidels. Yes, they fight among themselves, quite visciously, and yet their overarching enemies are ALL non-Muslims.

MOFAL: Don’t be an ass! Saying there “ain’t no such animal” is a time worn saying, like there is no such thing or in this case no such identifiable people. So, I never called them animals, try thinking for a change!

Anti-Semitism, whether you like it or not: (also known as judophobia) is a deprecated word for hostility, prejudice, toward Jews as a religious, racial, or ethnic group. This hostility may be manifested in discrimination against individual Jews, or in extreme cases violent attacks on entire communities. While the term’s etymology indicates that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, since its creation it has been due to a misunderstanding of the very meaning of the word used exclusively to refer to hostility towards Jews.”

Palestine: “The term Palestine is derived from Greek: Παλαιστινη/Latin: Palaestina, which refers to the biblical Philistines, a people of Aegean origin who settled in the southern coastal plains of Canaan (Gaza Strip), in the 12th century BC, their territory being named Philistia. After crushing Bar Kochba’s revolt in 132-135, the Romans applied the name to the entire region that had formerly included Iudaea Province.”

“There is no such thing as a Palestinian Arab nation . . . Palestine is a name the Romans gave to Eretz Yisrael with the express purpose of infuriating the Jews . . . . Why should we use the spiteful name meant to humiliate us?”

“The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation’s supposed ancient name, though they couldn’t even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity.”

“Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.

The word itself derives from “Peleshet”, a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as “Philistine”. The name began to be used in the Thirteenth Century BCE, for a wave of migrant “Sea Peoples” who came from the area of the Aegean Sea and the Greek Islands and settled on the southern coast of the land of Canaan. There they established five independent city-states (including Gaza) on a narrow strip of land known as Philistia. The Greeks and Romans called it “Palastina”.

“The Philistines were not Arabs, they were not Semites. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name “Falastin” that Arabs today use for “Palestine” is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman “Palastina” derived from the Peleshet.”

I admitted TransJordanian Arabs have lived there in small numbers for a long time, mostly nomadic in nature becauise Israel was until the modern Jewish State a miserable land that wasn’t any good to grow anything. But, for millennia the Jews have lived there and there has never been a time when there were none.

Sorry, no such place as Palestine, no such people as Palestinians, by definition even if I hated the so-called Palestinian Arabs, which I don’t, it would be impossible to call that hate anti-Semitism; and “ain’t no such animal” is an old saying, not calling anyone or anything animal. How does it feel to completely strike out on every issue?

The underlying problem, aside from political correctness and apathy disguised as tolerance, is religious extremism. I hate religious extremists, whether they are Islamic, Christians, Jews, whatever. Where I part ways with the rightwing is where they think Christian extremists are somehow exempt from the phenomena of religious extremism. Islamofascists want to destroy the Christian religion, and Christian extremists want to destroy the Islamic religion.

Religious extremism is a disease, period.

Damn, Pil! I’ll have to scan back through your posts of the last 9 days and laugh at sannitized.

It is truly sad that The Low Countries, one of the historical beacons of religious and cultural tolerance, are allowing themselves to be driven into submission by a pack of 7th Century dogs. More sad, in fact, than the Islamic people’s allowing of the same pack of 7th century dogs to keep them in submission.

fascist will no supply you with a list of Christian Fundamentalists doing what Islamic Fundamentalists glory in, me bairns. What it will supply is a list of Christians attacking Muslims after being attacked. And toss in the meme”two wrongs don’t make a right”, while lecturing us as to the fact that those Christians should forgive the Muslims what murdered them. I think that ’bout sorts out that sack of bumholes.

Hannitized,

You are so full of crap.

1. Hannity is one of the nicest pundits out there. He is the only guy on the air you can call and say “Fucking die”, and he’ll still accept your call. There’s not a single leftist who accepts that kind of call.
2. You accused me of strawmen and circle jerking. While I did call you stupid, I provided a reason. You claimed I was a right wing hack and ignored any points I’d made.
3. Muslim’s piece was divisive….

So is yours. We disagree. But if you approach every person with “Hey asshole, I hate you, and you’re a prick”, how are you not being divisive. HEll, I tried to reach out and be at least SOMEWHAT friendly (much more than other people I have talked to), and you ignored my points.
And finally
4. It is politically correct types denying there is anything wrong with Islam who are hindering Muslim reform. Not those who criticize it.

It sounds like mohammed was a sado- masochist? No wonder the mideast is so harmonious. NOT! Wow, that is so evil…! I wonder how guru would defend that?

Oh no, divisive opinion!

Can the Republic possibly survive?

Well, first, Hannitized, I wouldn’t go around saying “Hey you moron jackasses, we all need to be friends.” You engage in ad hominims more than anyone else here. Then, you have the unmitigated gall to accuse others of being divisive. You’re a prick, and then you bitch that people don’t like you.

Kenny,

Youve got it all wrong. I selected the title Hannitized, because HE is a prick and I am tired of being the nice guy. I am giving it back, in spades. YES, I am a prick and I don’t care if people don’t like me. In fact you wont be able to find one complaint about it. I only complain that they say stupid things and lack a point.

So do you understand? I am a prick on purpose because most of the right-wing circle jerks like Proof or 2Hotel deserve nothing less. If however you approach me with respect and want it in return…ill play nice. But I am not leading with it, because i have been burned too many times.

“He’s scary because he’s not being watched!” Um, what? He’s posting this on an insanely popular blog that YOU are reading. Regardless, how does that make him scarier?

The point is, he is scary because his irresponsible political discourse is damn near hate speech that divides the country by promoting false arguments. Being a prick doesnt do that! It’s a far greater fear because NOBODY is paying attention to the damage that is being done by our own kind. On the contrary, WE ARE watching after the terrorists.

So, I stand by my comments, which weren’t straw men arguments,

No no, Pilgrim made the strawman argument. There is no causal relationship between concerns for safety and political correctness.

that saying that Pilgrim (who’s opinions you don’t agree with) is scarier than people who want to kill you is far more irresponsible and divisive than anything Pilgrim has said, it’s also imbecility.

I disagree. We do something about terrorists, we sit idly by and let people like him make our country more divisive. Besides I said “almost” more scary. I will describe the difference.

It is one thing to say that I worry more about dying from an terrorist than a blog. But I am not afraid of death or my enemy. I am afraid of our country being ruined from within, not external forces, I know we can and will prevail….if we stick together. THAT is why Pilgrim is more scary to me. The only people who can destroy America, are Americans…(ourselves), not the terrorists.

I don’t have to prove that leftists are going to get us killed, because I never claimed any such thing. In fact, I even stipulated that Pilgrim was an idiot (if only for the sake of argument). I never said I agreed with him, and, in reality, I think his point wasn’t argued terribly well. Yet you come in, guns blazing, saying he’s scarier than violent Muslims.

Ok, lets try it another way. Who is causing more problems for the Muslims advancement of civilization? The Americans or themselves and their mindless propaganda that is based out of ignorance and fear? If you guessed themselves, maybe now you might get the idea??? Maybe you’ll understand I dont know? Personally, I have to say that you aren’t coming across very insightful, TO ME. This isn’t a one way street ya know!

Pilgrim doesn’t set social policy. He doesn’t command an army. He’s some dude who spouts off his beliefs on a web site that people read, and even, disagree with him on. It’s not promoting hate to say that Europe is giving in to violent extremists.

He doesnt set policy, but look at his following. Look at guys/girls like Robert, 2Hotel and Proof. They feed on this and then repeat it, sometimes on the air…..its embarrassing for them and anyone who is responsible, but others buy into this and it reflects in their VOTE. You don’t think VOTING MATTERS????

So, before you accuse others of being divisive, setting up strawmen, and ad hominims, maybe you need to do a little self reflection.
As Christ said “Before you take the splinter out of your friend’s eye, you must remove the beam from your own.”

Dude…HE posted the article…NOT ME. His post is a divisive propaganda piece not supported by one piece of evidence!! It’s obvious that you can’t separate yourself from Pilgrims argument, that is a reflection on your reading comprehension, not my argument. I think you probably understand this now, hopefully.

Funnier and funnier. Glad I suspend the 10 Word Regimen whilst I am catching up. This is some seriously funny shit sannitized has been posting. These last 2 are hilarious.

…I believe that no man (or woman) is born evil…

I agree with you on this, but no matter how they are born, those who are indoctrinated from birth with a hatred of anyone who doesn’t share their religion are bound to be dangerous, unless they renounce those specific teachings.

The so called “religion of peace” sounds like they have to submit to being warriors or else.

Neiman,
(1) I can see your anti-Semitism and anti-Zionist prejudice in all your statements.I can recognise your anti-Arab, anti-Muslim sentiments in everything you say. Your evident hatred for an entire race and religion is a contradiction to your faith. (see I can accuse you of it too, doesn’t make it true though) Also, I can detect the spirit of Chamberlain style appeasment of Islamic terrorism in your every word. Love for all beings is Chamberlain style appeasement, eh? Funny, i thought it was a principle tenet of your faith. I will fight anyone who threatens me and mine. We cannot accuse all Muslims of terrorism and therefore attack them, otherwise we are no better than they are(2) Not once have you presented any facts, only opinions, and like assholes, everyone has one.I’ve presented many facts, you are just to much of a narrow-minded bigot to admit when you have been refuted (3) I defend the Jews right to their more than three millennia historical claims on Israel as their homeland and I reject the claims of people that have only occupied any part of Israel after 1948, when pigs like Arafat made false claims to that area as an historic homeland, which even he knew to be a lie, it was a ruse to assert absolute Arab-Muslim dominance over the entire Middle East and to carry out Mohammed’s demands that every Jew on earth be killed and Israel taken as an Islamic land before the Mahdi, the Islamic Savior could return. I just recognise everyones right to live in peace. I think it would be lovely if all the Muslims could get over the their Nazi-throwback mentalities too. your racism is evident in this comment. (4) I am against murderous Muslims that are killing all over the world to force Islam on every human being. As am I(5) While I am a proud Christian and I support His people the Jews, I have not made one statement of hate towards so-called “Palestinians,” only documented opposition to their false claims to that land. Neither have I against the Jews, yet you insist that everything I write is anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist.

Robert, yes I do know, my point is that Neimans’ claims of legitimacy are not valid. Israeli doesn’t belong to the Jews because a god said it does, but because the international community decided it did in 1947.

Nice bit of idiocy. When asked for current examples he goes back at least a thousand years.

If I didn’t make it clear Hannitized, you make a fair answer. This is not evidence. It is an event that is linked to support a theory. However, I do find the theory plausible.

Just out of curiosity, where did you go to school?

Obviously, in a place that teaches reading comprehension, supporting positions with evidence/facts and critical thinking. Something obviously is lacking in ND. Im sure half the people I am debating work for IBM, SUN, HP, UUNET or fortune 50 companies and with the Military, Executive Offices Of The President, the Pentagon and US Army National Guard among others, due to their incredible intellect and education. Right?

In other words or in more simpler terms, I was not educated from the right-wingnut blogoshpere or from right-wing radio punditry. Because THIS is where you get all of your pathetic arguments from. It’s pathetically obvious, and patently stupid.

Most high schoolers I’m familiar with, even those who struggled to get their diploma, understand the pathetic fallacy in your “thinking” here, if thinking is indeed what those of you on the left call this sort of mental masturbation.

Great Bat, now that your done with your little circle jerk party, why don’t you point out all of illogical arguments I have made? Please tell me you are also of the mindset that Saddam was apart of the Islamic Fascism terrorist groups who are trying to destroy the US, instead of merely trying to oust the Jews from Israel? Do you have the ability or you merely pretending to be making a point again?

As for Saddam, his well publicized financial support ($25,000 per family) for

Palestinian suicide bombers more than qualifies as support for terrorists,

Gee, you figured that all by yourself bat? Now, why don’t you explain to me the difference between Palestinian suicide bombers and Al Qaeda? Can you? Do you understand the difference? I doubt it.

The fact is, there is no evidence that Saddam financially supported Al Qaeda or any of its sister organizations. The Palestinians are attacking Isreal, not the US, they have not declared war against us. If they had we wouldnt be working with them to work on peace agreements between them and Isreal.

This is all very basic. And it explains why its impossible for you to understand.

but the fact of the matter is, his use of poison gas against the Kurds and the Iranians was reason enough to end his rule, and his attempt to assassinate former President George H. W. Bush was more than ample reason to end his life.

Who is defending him from his crimes? Where did I say he didnt deserve to die? The whole point, idiot, is to prove he was not an islamic Facist. He was a secular dictator! Lord. And your boasting of your education Bat? *laughing*

Ann Coulter – “We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.”

Just good military strategy to use against those who have the goal of “invading our countries, killing all the population, except those who will submit to Islam” which is the way of radical Islam.

Thanks for pointing out that there’s no real comparison. The other part you leave out is that the terrorists are doing their slaughtering in the name of Islam. We’re killing them because they want to kill us.

Man: You left out the part where OBL was offered to Clinton, who refused to take him because there wasn’t enough evidence against him for a court conviction!

I didn’t leave it out, I just couldn’t find it. Perhaps you could provide this evidence?

Bin Laden lived in Khartoum, the Sudanese capital, from about 1991 until 1996, when he was expelled under pressure from the United States and Saudi Arabia. While under protection from the Sudanese government (which claims that bin Laden became a terrorist only after he left Sudan), bin Laden set up camps to train al-Qaeda members and opened multimillion-dollar businesses that funded and provided cover for al-Qaeda activities. Before expelling bin Laden in 1996, Sudan offered to arrest him and extradite him to Saudi Arabia. But the Saudis, who stripped bin Laden of his citizenship in 1994, feared having him back in the country, even as a prisoner, so he went to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan.

From CFR

BTW, they’re the “mobs”; did you see the “cartoon riots”? Wake up!

The so-called “Palestinians” are really Jordanians that Jordan doesn’t want. They are not related to the original inhabitants of that area, some of whom were Jews.

Of course they are related to the original inhabitants of the region. They are all Semites.

According to the CIA World Factbook, of the ten million people living between Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, about five million (49%) identify as Palestinian, Arab, Bedouin and/or Druze. One million of those are citizens of Israel. The other four million are residents of the West Bank and Gaza, which are under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian National Authority.

as of May 2006, of Israel’s 7 million people, 77% were Jews, 18.5% Arabs, and 4.3% “others
…
The West Bank is inhabited by approximately 2.4 million Palestinians and the Gaza Strip by another 1.4 million
…
population in Israel and the Palestinian Territories stands at 9.8-10.8 million.

“Part, or perhaps the majority, of the Muslim Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD… These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistoric times

Quotes found here

Man: You left out the part where OBL was offered to Clinton, who refused to take him because there wasn’t enough evidence against him for a court conviction!

So – if they’ve done this out of concern for the safety of their people, how is this another sign of them tucking their tails between their legs and slinking away from the Islamafascist threat?

Because Brussels, like much of the rest of Europe and, increasingly, the United States, is more worried about offending someone than calling a spade a spade:

So how does this work? You create a post about a topic that has almost NO relation to your main thesis? This is pathetically predictable.

Well, what can I say? Here is a little bit on non-political correctness and calling a spade a spade: YOURE A NUTJUB!!!

Truth be told, I am almost more scared of people like you than the “hate preaching, unwashed Mullah from Scotland to Prague” because when they say something stupid, it makes them easy to watch, because were looking out for these guys, but idiots like YOU who say stupid things all the time and its not recognized as the lunacy it is….it just multiplies through the irrational, illogical and sophomoric minds of the sheep you shepherd. All the while you breed a fear that is far worse than any verbal thread a moronic Muslim might make. Because it’s obvious its the quit ones we need to keep an eye on in our society.

The cancellation of the New Year’s celebration in Brussels is just the beginning. Soon either the fear of angering Muslims or the crawling, on the knees desire to pander to them will begin to cause all of Europe to begin to unravel if they don’t step on the Islamists and step on them hard. But they won’t. That might offend someone.

Hey DUMBSHIT, they are worried about S A F E T Y, not hurting someones feelings you fricking moron! You leaped to an illogical, irrational conclusion and your stupid story doesn’t support YOUR STUPID THESIS.

Rubber cricket: Just because the Islamofascists are so crazy that they also kill each other over doctrinal differences(do you know the difference between the Shia and the Sunni?) doesn’t mean that they don’t want to kill all the infidels. I don’t know if you are just ignorant or willfully obtuse, but it doesn’t matter to me, either way. You are consistently wrong, and now you’re an apologist for Saddam. Pathetic.

Al Qaeda is the Islamic Terrorist, you idiot. Saddam was a secular dictator. Do you know what secular means?

I’ll repeat it again, because you’re so slow: All Islamic terrorists have the same purpose: destruction of all other cultures. You erroneously try to separate them, but they are all joined at the hip. It is an article of faith among you terrorist-denying lefties that Saddam wasn’t a terrorist. He was.
Your idol Bill Maher has made you stupid.
Read up on the relationship between Saddam’s uncle and Hitler. You might learn something.

A more just, simple, and mature arguement would be to demand Pilgrim for evidence for his claim (Which is really what this article is all about) and tell him that you don’t believe until it is supported.

Oh bruther!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have already taken that tack and really….you think I wouldnt think of that, BASIC approach?

What do you think the big minds response was???? Silence! He hid from the challenge because guess why? He has no evidence.

r, with each cut&paste diatribe it posts here it makes my point. And is oh, so funny!

dirl, I ain’t debating or arguing with it or fascist, merely heaping derision upon them. Neither of them is honest or genuine in any of their comments, the one being a euro-trash teenybopper and the other being of false religion cultist who scams old people out of money to finance its vast online scam empire. You will note that sannitized skirts the real issue, and refuses to acknowledge the simple fact that the Low Countries are the historical seat of religious and cultural tolerance in Europe. Inconvenient facts are oh, so inconvenient.

Wow, now not only is it a big hero working with the US military, it is a documentary film producer, too. This one is almost as entertaining as jadegold/Guy Cabot. Has about the same penchant self-delusion and reality denial.

Honestly Hannitized, I honestly believe it’s quite unhealthy for you to spend so much time on a site that brings you such agonizing disgruntlement.
I sincerely hope that you do take some time to patronize blog sites that share and possibly agree with your opinion.
May I suggest you try to maybe pursue more positive aspects in life then wallowing in continuous conflict… it just isn’t healthy and some may even view it as unstable

Ken, sannitized is another of those socialist idiots, wants everyone to be friends as long as being friends involves groveling on their knees before the Great And All Knowing Marx, the Archangel Lenin, and their bastard child Stalin. Wasting any time doing anything other than heaping derision upon its pointy socialist head is just that, a waste.

Sorry, I didn’t read your earlier post.

Doesn’t matter though – that blurb from Wikipedia about Saddam Hussein abolishing sharia law is just flat-out wrong, and notice how the article just does not provide a citation to this erroneous information.

Here is the real information on Iraq’s court system:

Religious Courts. Although Iraq is a secular state, Moslem religious courts play an important role in adjudicating disputes over family matters such as inheritance, marriage, divorce, and alimony. These courts apply Sharia law, but decisions can be appealed to the Court of Cassation. For non-Moslems, cases involving family matters are handled by the Civil Court of First Instance, which may seek the advice of the relevant religious authorities in reaching a verdict.

Here’s Wikis blurb on Abu Nidal:

On August 19, 2002, al-Ayyam, the official newspaper of the Palestinian Authority, reported that Abu Nidal had died three days earlier of multiple gunshot wounds in his home in the wealthy al-Masbah neighborhood of al-Jadriyah, Baghdad, where the villa he lived in was owned by the Mukhabarat, or Iraqi secret service.

Heh, you’re going to try to tell me that Saddam Hussein didn’t know the Mukhabarat was housing Abu Nidal?

Give me a break.

The idea that he didn’t know of and approve of Zarqawi’s presence in Iraq is equally ridicualous.

Yeah, I suppose Hussein didn’t know he was paying money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers, either.

P, I been stuck with ABC, CBS, and NPR for news for a week. I needed a good, cleansing laugh to start the year.

Europeans have already surrendered their celebrations to the nannystaters.

It’s no surprise that the Europeans are surrendering to the Muslims.

Europeans are generally a stupid and weak people. There’s a reason that our ancestors fled from that area of the world. It wasn’t because the weather was bad.

For non-Moslems, cases involving family matters are handled by the Civil Court of First Instance, which may seek the advice of the relevant religious authorities in reaching a verdict.

Ken,

Show me where in Islamic Facism Law or Sharia law Non-mulsims are given this right. Just show me!

Because you confuse Muslim law with Islamic Fascism doesn’t mean they are the same thing.

Here’s Wikis blurb on Abu Nidal:
Heh, you’re going to try to tell me that Saddam Hussein didn’t know the Mukhabarat was housing Abu Nidal?

What I am going to tell you is that it is believed Saddam Hussein had him killed. From Wiki, the source you trust, when it suits you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Nidal

[quote]Abu Nidal died of between one and four gunshot wounds in Baghdad in August 2002, believed by Palestinian sources to have been killed on the orders of Saddam Hussein,[8] but said by the Iraqi government to have committed suicide.[9] The Guardian wrote on the news of his death: “He was the patriot turned psychopath. He served only … the warped personal drives that pushed him into hideous crime. He was the ultimate mercenary.“

The idea that he didn’t know of and approve of Zarqawi’s presence in Iraq is equally ridicualous.

Provide evidence that supports your claim. I challenge you.

Yeah, I suppose Hussein didn’t know he was paying money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers, either.

No, he did. But that is a separate matter. Just like we supported Saddam at one time. It doesn’t mean we support dictatorships. The enemy of your enemy, is your friend. So what.