Say Anything Blog

I’m surprised our troops even bothered to stop for this nut.

The soldiers involved are to be congratulated for their maturity of judgment and self-control, This very easily could have become an ugly incident.  That it did not is a tribute to the Americans involved.  The temptation to give in to this sort of witless provocation must have been enormous.  Once again, our American GI’s show themselves to be far more adult than their childish, hateful critics.

Hooo-ah!

Hi and thanks for linking to A Tangled Web.

I agree the US soldiers showed remarkable tolerance towards an Irish moonbat.

docdave,

In answer to your question:

What do you suppose he would say if he encountered 6 turban-wearing muslems carrying long knives?

I suspect Sargent would have said “Alah u Akbar.”

Out Here
Rodney Graves

DocDave, from your description, they wouldn’t have been Muslim, probably more like this. But you’d’ve been stupid to mess with ‘em in any case.

According to the Left our soldiers go around the world killing, torturing, robbing and raping at will. Doesn’t seem this way to me at all. Could it possibly be that Left isn’t exactly truthful? When will that prick Murtha be issuing their verdict?

TripleWinkle has nothing to complain about.  The Israelis stop Palestinians for nothing at all.  Heck, they’ve had pregnant women giving birth waiting in lines at checkpoints.  The U.S. military stops innocent Iraqis for less. 

Typical here:  You can dish it out but you whine like mama’s babies when you have to take a bit.

You have to love Irish humor.

Garda O’Sullivan’s response was less than helpful. The deskbound officer was more interested to know if they were armed or their commander in chief George W Bush was among them.

Father, forgive me for I have Thinned.”

“You’ve Thinnned?”

“Yes, I went out with me boyfriend Friday night. He held me hand twice, kissed me three times, and made love to me two times.”

“Daughter! I want you to go straight home, squeeze seven lemons into a glass, and drink it straight down.”

“Will that wash away me Thin?”

“No, but it will get the silly smile off your face.

O’Connell was staggering home with a pint of booze in his back pocket when he
slipped and fell heavily. Struggling to his feet, he felt something wet running
down his leg.
“Please, God,” he implored, “let it be blood!”

Hahahaha!!!  Irish people do seem uncommonly good-natured, the ones I’ve met.

diane,

do you ever post a comment on topic??

My God you’re a bitch!

Yeah that’s right, I just called you that.  Feel free to add it to the list of other names you have been called, or at least claim to have been called on this site.

I don’t think I have ever read a comment thread here where you didn’t hijack the topic to something else.  You’re such a twit (yeah add that one too).

And I know, don’t feed the troll.  Sorry, couldn’t resist.

J.R.

Consider yourself reprimanded.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

J.R., here’s the troll, the one who took it off-topic.  Perhaps you are either too blind or too stupid to have caught it:

Green party leader Trevor Sargent said yesterday that US troops walking in uniform in this country “was a flagrant breach of Irish neutrality.

docdave on June 30, 2006 at 4:53 PM

Which is it, too blind or too stupid?
I know which it is with Rodney.

Rodney,
I hope you forgot the sarcasm tag.

diane,
Please spare me.  Docdave’s question about how an Irishman would react to a Muslim is on topic. 

You bringing up Israel and Palestine in a thread about Ireland is not. 

See the difference?

But hey, don’t let that stop you.  OF course I know it won’t.

I asked you if it was blindness or stupidity.

You have answered my question.

Here’s another off topic that preceded mine:
Are you going to be blind or stupid on this one, J.R.?

According to the Left our soldiers go around the world killing, torturing, robbing and raping at will. Doesn’t seem this way to me at all. Could it possibly be that Left isn’t exactly truthful? When will that prick Murtha be issuing their verdict?

bullwinkle on June 30, 2006 at 5:19 PM

Of course, since it’s Triple, one of your compadres and mindmates here, you’ll find some obscure way to tie it into an Irishman doing a citizen’s arrest on some American soldiers.

It should be kind of amusing to see how you do it.  Go for it.

And you continue to divert the comment thread.

Well done!  you’re good at it.

And you continue to divert the comment thread.

J.R. on June 30, 2006 at 7:05 PM

No, actually, you started a personal diatribe on me for supposedly going off topic when I’ve pointed out to you that I was hardly the first.

Are you blind or stupid, J.R.?

You’re right diane.  Murtha has nothing to do with this.  bullwinkle shouldn’t have brought it up. 

Now please explain your bringing up Israel and Palestine.  I’ll be waiting.

Just trying to ‘fit in’ here.

I guess I’m both diane.

Sorry if I thought you were more intelligent than an 8 year old whose only response when being reprimanded is: “well he did it first.”

Bravo diane. good show.

Oh, and are you planning to call your friend a bastard and further try to humiliate him when he preceded me in taking it off-topic.  Once something goes off topic (which it, as you admitted, had), it’s fair game it seems to me.

WOOF was also off topic; any choice filthy mean and nasty names for him, or am I the only one so honored?

The grade school “You did it first, so now I can do it, even though I know it’s wrong.” rationale.  How adult(not).

J.R., I thought you were being actually human for a moment.

I see I was wrong.

Sorry, guys; J.R. you and Robert will have to play ‘pull Diane’s pigtails’.  This is an absolute freaking waste of time.

Am I really so fascinating and important that, even when you admitted I wasn’t the one who started the off topic, you feel the need to try to somehow pummel me?

My word, I’m really not that exciting.  I’m exciting, but not that exciting.  You both need hobbies.

MORE ALLEGATIONS OF MURDER RAPE, SADISM AGAINST US MILITARY:

Maybe this is why the ‘nut’ in Ireland thought they were dangerous:

MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 8:17 p.m. ET June 30, 2006
BEIJI, Iraq - Five U.S. Army soldiers are being investigated for allegedly killing a family of four in Iraq, the U.S. military said Friday.

The soldiers allegedly first raped a female member of the family, then burned the body in the March incident, an official said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

Maj. Gen. James Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, ordered the criminal investigation into the alleged killings in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad, the U.S. command said in a statement.

“On June 23, two soldiers reported alleged coalition force involvement in their deaths,” the statement said. “A preliminary inquiry ... found sufficient information existed to recommend a criminal investigation into the incident.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13630952/

Shameful.

Suppose in this loonball Irish guy was walking in this country and he stopped someone for having an Irish accent. 

This person has assumed that all Irish people are members of the IRA and thus were terrorists.

The person doing the stopping would be liable in all kinds of ways for not having probable cause.

Whistler,

Wave a bottle of whiskey in front of that Irishman, and he’ll probably handcuff himself to the nearest parking meter if you offer him a sip.

American soldiers are dangerous in the perception of many people around the world.  Sick and dangerous, to be exact.

I agree with diane(really!).  If any country has done something that brings our soldiers to their country, they should be afraid, very afraid.  We have to undo the image Clinton gave our military(which he and the missus despised, btw).

The grade school “You did it first, so now I can do it, even though I know it’s wrong.” rationale. How adult(not).

robert108 on June 30, 2006 at 7:13 PM

Bu Bu Bu BUT CLINTOOOOON

rbb: As usual, you use a flawed analogy.  I have never justified doing anything because Clinton did it first.  I only point out the hypocrisy of those who supported him, yet point fingers at others for doing less than he did.  Our former President, the convicted perjurer.  How cool of you to point that out for me.  Thanks again!

as usual bla bla bla

The US government said it could not find the men that Guantánamo detainee Abdullah Mujahid believes could help set him free.

Carrick, those are not Muslims. They are Gurkhali. I take the gravest personal exception to that insult.

"as usual bla bla bla”

Great rebuttal!  Factual, logical, reasoned(not).  Nevertheless, worthy of you, rbb.

American soldiers are dangerous in the perception of many people around the world. Sick and dangerous, to be exact.

diane on June 30, 2006 at 9:00 PM

I agree with diane(really!)
robert108 on June 30, 2006 at 9:07 PM

AMERICAN SOLDERS ALLEGED TO HAVE RAPED & THEN BURNED THE BODY OF A YOUNG IRAQI GIRL...and then killed her family.

Five and one half hours since I posted the story here and not one great American on the blog has expressed horror and alarm or shame or even passing interest in the story.

That says way too much about the caliber of what America has become.

This is one scary country anymore.

Ah, the cherry-picking, cunningly calculated to mislead.  I said that any country that has done something that brings our soldiers there should be afraid, very afraid.  That was the part you dishonestly left out.

The key word here is “alleged”.  We have seen so many of these allegations prove to be untrue, that no one believes them anymore.  Why protest something that is most likely another lie, or a misleading cherry-pick?  You hate-filled lefties have almost reached the end of your rope with this tactic.

Oh, I didn’t mislead at all.  Just pasted your first sentence.  The rest was there for all to read. 

The key word here is “alleged”. We have seen so many of these allegations prove to be untrue, that no one believes them anymore. Why protest something that is most likely another lie, or a misleading cherry-pick?

A Major General doesn’t see it your way:

Maj. Gen. James Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, ordered the criminal investigation into the alleged killings in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad, the U.S. command said in a statement.

“On June 23, two soldiers reported alleged coalition force involvement in their deaths,” the statement said. “A preliminary inquiry ... found sufficient information existed to recommend a criminal investigation into the incident.”

Of course, you are quick to jump on any allegations or news about Palestinians, as anyone who reads your posts can see.  Or on anyone or anything that doesn’t coincide with your far, far right wing agenda.  Duplicitous.

Once again, dishonesty combined with lack of logic or reason.  You fling insults and make accusations, and present nothing to back them up.  That is the definition of intellectual dishonesty and childishness.  You made a misleading edit of my comment.  If my statement was there for all to see, why just cut and paste the first sentence?  You wanted to give the false impression that I actually supported you in your antimilitary smear, that’s why.  My complete statement would have clarified what I really meant, and you were too cowardly and dishonest to cut and past the whole thing.  You are the epitome of intellectual dishonesty, although the “intellectual” part is much in doubt.

as rbb said:

blablablablablablabla

bla

bla

Your rebuttal is right in line with your intellectual capacities, as usual, I see.  I think it speaks for you rather nicely.

Carrick, after rereading this thread I realize you were not calling those Gurks Muslims. My apologies, forgiveness please, kiss feet.

Well, since Diane can get any topic derailed… I would just like to say that I really enjoyed the rational discussions on the board while she was gone.

I will now stop reading the comments, again, and just thank my lucky stars that I do not have such a twisted and pessimistic view of my country.

If American soldiers do twisted things, do you turn your head APBT?  We are talking about innocent human life and there is no excuse whatsoever for supporting Americans who do despicable things, even in the traumatic environment of war. We should be better than that and it is frightening to see ‘middle class Midwestern type’ Americans who look the other way.  Is there no character left in American people by and large?  Where is the outrage?
We have never heard so many stories of alleged military murderous behavior that I can remember.  I think it has to do with being put in a war with no real tangible mission or benchmark goals or way to win.  Terrorism will always be there.  Therefore, the war will never be won.  Put bluntly, it’s silly to think it can be.

History proves you completely wrong Dhiane.

We firebombed Tokyo during World War II.

Dresden and Hamburg too.

Killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Curtis Lemay said he would have been tried for war crimes if the Allies had lost the war.

There was the Canicatti murder of Italians by Patton’s troops.

There was the murder of over 100 German POWs at Dachau by American troops.

There were many more such incidents.

And gee, we still won World War II, so yet again you are completely wrong.

Please post examples from history of Americans targeting civilian families and raping, burning the body and murdering entire families just for ‘fun’, Khen.  I doubt you can.  This is what is alleged to be happening in the incidents we have been hearing about routinely lately (as Maliki notes, it’s becoming commonplace to hear of attacks on Iraqi civilians by American troops).

And that has nothing to do with proving we can win this war, citing episodes from World War II.
There was an enemy we could readily identify then.  Not so now.  There are terrorist cells all over the world, Khen.

Please stay relevant.

May the Iraqi civilians be saved from our military.  Here’s more on the story:

The Americans entered the Sunni Arab’s family home, separated three males from the woman, raped her and burned her body using a flammable liquid in a cover-up attempt, a military official close to the investigation said. The three males were also slain.

The soldiers had studied their victims for about a week and the attack was “totally premeditated,” the official said on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

One soldier was arrested after admitting his role in the alleged attack on the family, the official said on condition of anonymity because the case was under way. The official said the rape and killings appeared to have been a “crime of opportunity,” noting that the soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.

One of the family members they allegedly killed was a child

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13630952/from/RS.4/

May the Iraqi civilians be saved from our military.

Why do you take the actions of a few and act like the whole military is doing these alleged deeds? You do it all of the time.

I only do it when they go on another murderous/raping rampage.  So, if you feel that’s often, that’s because they appear to be doing it quite regularly, according to Maliki.

Please post examples from history of Americans targeting civilian families

I already did - read up on Canicatti, they were Italian civilians. 

I doubt you can.

Wrong once again Dhiane.

Alleged; however one soldier involved confessed already and ‘spilled the beans’.  Either that or he’s a nutcase liar.  Who would confess to something like this unless their conscience wouldn’t allow them to keep it inside?

diane says, I only do it when they go on another murderous/raping rampage. So, if you feel that’s often, that’s because they appear to be doing it quite regularly, according to Maliki.

When they allegedly do these deeds. You often act as if they are always guilty.

Anyways, there are plenty of Californians in prison for murder, rape and gang activity. Am I to assume that you, being a Californian, are guilty of these things as well?

diane said, Alleged; however one soldier involved confessed already and ‘spilled the beans’. Either that or he’s a nutcase liar. Who would confess to something like this unless their conscience wouldn’t allow them to keep it inside?

Well that is this case. They may very well be guilty in this instance. I was referring to other cases where the military has been cleared. You had assumed in those cases that they were guilty. At least you wrote as if they were guilty.

Khen insults again with a link.  More than one, Khen?  We’re talking regular incidents here in a very short period of time.

And, is your point that slaughters of civilians are acceptable, Khen, because we can still win wars with them?

It’s still “alleged”, no matter what one-sided claims are made before the whole story gets told.  This pattern of false allegations has been made over and over again in an attempt to smear our soldiers.  So far, they have all been disproven eventually.  However, the smearing has done its damage, as it was intended to do.  You gladly participate in that tactic, diane.  Shame on you!

diane had said, I only do it when they go on another murderous/raping rampage.

You mean when you automatically assume guilt.

No I didn’t, lik.  I used the word alleged, just as I have here, or quoted the facts, as in one soldier already confessing.

Anyways, there are plenty of Californians in prison for murder, rape and gang activity. Am I to assume that you, being a Californian, are guilty of these things as well?

likwidshoe on July 1, 2006 at 5:32 PM

I don’t have weapons that I am authorized to use and I am not underwritten by the American taxpayer, so there really isn’t much of a parallel, if any.  With these things comes responsibility.  Anyone should know that without having to be told.

The behavior of the American military in this war is nothing less than despicable, from the shock and awe initial bombing, to Abu Ghraib, to Fellujah, to the recent incidents of civilian murders and rape and pillage, etc.

”...the facts, as in one soldier already confessing.”

That is only a preliminary report.  Remember the preliminary reports of “cold-blooded murder” and “coverup” in the runup to Haditha?  They were false.  You are just hoping this is true.  You care more for your agenda than for this country.

Just recent incidents against civilians:

The case (THE CURRENT ONE) is among the most serious against U.S. soldiers allegedly involved in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.

Last week, seven Marines and one Navy medic were charged with premeditated murder in the shooting death of an Iraqi man near Fallujah west of Baghdad.

U.S. officials are also investigating allegations that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians Nov. 19 in the western town of Haditha in a revenge attack after a fellow Marine died in a roadside bombing.

Other cases involve the deaths of three male detainees in Salahuddin province in May, the shooting death of an unarmed Iraqi man near Ramadi in February

What does all of this have to do with some Irish loony, anyway?
I have seen a preliminary report from an unnamed source that diane has raped and murdered an entire family of Conservatives.  See how easy it is?

Robert wrongly says:
That is only a preliminary report. Remember the preliminary reports of “cold-blooded murder” and “coverup” in the runup to Haditha? They were false. You are just hoping this is true. You care more for your agenda than for this country.

Yeah, I remember:
From today’s article:

U.S. officials are also investigating allegations that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians Nov. 19 in the western town of Haditha in a revenge attack after a fellow Marine died in a roadside bombing.

Alleged incidents against civilians.  It seems as if AQ has discovered yet another way to use the lefties in this country to do its dirty work.  Just keep cranking out phony accusations against the military in Iraq.  Forget the terrorists murdering huge quantities of men, women and children on the streets with car bombs.

Gee Dhiane, you want to talk about incinerating civilians?

Try the incendiary bomb attack on Tokyo, which killed about 100,000 people.

Napalm was invented to burn wood and paper buildings, and napalm is what our bombers dropped on civilian families.

Get a little perspective Dhiane, history didn’t start the day you were born.

"investigating allegations”.  I can make up allegations, too.  Should I get a press pass, then?

Of course they are investigating them.  They have to, because our military, unlike the terrorists, cares for human life.  AQ knows this, and so is trying to bog us down with this phony crap.  The lefties in this country are aiding and abetting them.  What else is new?

Dhimi never condems her Wahabi heros for rape, torture, murder, sodomy, and religious persecution. Why is that? What justifies Wahabi Deathcult terrorists committing these crimes? Explain to us why you are so fucking special that you are allowed to rape and murder and sodomize your own children and women. We really want to hear this fucking shit! Justifiy your self, Cunt.

There is never a rumor, a slander or a lie about our troops that you won’t trumpet, is there Dhiane.

And yet never an unkind word about our terrorist enemies.

You are pretty despicable.

Ew, the C word is pretty ugly though, 2H9

No I didn’t, lik. I used the word alleged, just as I have here, or quoted the facts, as in one soldier already confessing.

Okay. Bookmarked. The next time there is a false accusation à la Haditha, I’ll remember you said this. Maybe you have turned a new leaf and won’t be so quick to assume that the U.S. soldiers and Marines are guilty.

I don’t have weapons that I am authorized to use and I am not underwritten by the American taxpayer, so there really isn’t much of a parallel, if any.

The parallel is that you take the actions of a few and convict the entire group. I ask why I can’t convict you for Californians’ murders and gang activity.

With these things comes responsibility. Anyone should know that without having to be told.

Well yes, that goes without being said.

The behavior of the American military in this war is nothing less than despicable, from the shock and awe initial bombing, to Abu Ghraib, to Fellujah, to the recent incidents of civilian murders and rape and pillage, etc.

And here is where your blanket conviction comes into play.

But let’s break down your position. The shock and awe initial bombing was precision bombing. It wasn’t perfect of course and some innocents did get hit, but all in all it took out specific buildings and encampments with pin-point precision. In short, we hit our targets and little else. This is a big positive for our military.

The Abu Ghraib incident came about by the actions of a few twisted individuals. There is no need to blame the entire military.

Fellujah was another instance of America showing our restraint. Fellujah was an absolute terrorist hotbed of activity. What did we do? We flyered the city and gave people three days to get out and then we went to town killing bad guys. With our technology we could have just wiped out the entire city, and in the wars of past that is exactly what would have happened. That we took pains to spare innocents is a testament to this nation’s character. The battles in Fellujah were a big positive for our military.

The “recent incidents of civilian murders and rape and pillage”? You’re automatically assuming guilt even as you tell me that you don’t do that sort of thing. In any regard, I expect there to be some incidents in any group of a hundred and a half thousand people. Just like the situation there in California, not all people are rapists and murderers.

Listen diane, if you’re looking for a perfect war where nobody who is innocent will die, you’re not going to find it. Human beings are flawed creatures. Add the flawed nature of us in with the ones who are just plain messed up and you’re going to have incidents where the men and women act less than honorable.

Anyways,...do you know that our enemy is using you? They know that they can accuse our military men and women of atrocities and then sit back and watch as people like you tear the U.S. military down without any evidence except their word. Couple this with their willingness to throw their own children out in front of them as shields to make it harder for our incredibly self-restrained men to shoot back and we have a nasty situation.

And scratch that bookmarked comment above. You don’t use the word “alleged”. You assume guilt.

Boy, stop referring to your wife here.  You’re supposed to keep that at home.

Justify myself?  I have nothing to justify; I’ve done nothing wrong.  These military thugs are the ones who will be tried for wrongdoing, exposed by one of their own.

Khen, rude as usual.  Are you proud we incinerated civilians; is that your justification for what we are seeing the military doing now?

Robert, you have nothing to say.  I showed you you were wrong again and you just blather.

I’m an American and, as such, I don’t appreciate soldiers behaving like criminals.  The perception of this country is going down daily because of such things all over the world.

And that ties back into the subject of this thread.

Ken: Actually, we were using napalm, in the form of flamethrowers, on the cave defenders in all the island battles leading up to attacking the Japanese mainland.  It’s also perfect for house to house fighting, but we haven’t used it in Iraq, out of concern for civilian casualties. We are not the savages there.

Robert says Khen was wrong.  Hmmm..Robert also says:

napalm, in the form of flamethrowers, on the cave defenders in all the island battles leading up to attacking the Japanese mainland....we haven’t used it in Iraq, out of concern for civilian casualties. We are not the savages there.

Apparently, Robert may be wrong yet again:

Napalm by another name: Pentagon denial goes up in flames

by Ben Cubby
Sydney Morning Herald
Aug. 9, 2003

....The Pentagon no longer officially uses the brand-name Napalm, a combination of naphthalene and palmitate, but a similar substance known as fuel-gel mixture contained in Mark-77 fire bombs was dropped on Iraqi troops near the Iraq-Kuwait border at the start of the recent war.

“I can confirm that Mark-77 fire bombs were used in that general area,” said Colonel Mike Daily, of the US Marine Corps.

http://www.unknownnews.net/p0808-4.html

"I’m an American and, as such, I don’t appreciate soldiers behaving like criminals. The perception of this country is going down daily because of such things all over the world.”

All these phony allegations show is that AQ is using you, the MSM, and the rest of the loony left to do their work for them.  Frankly, since I’m not a malignant narcissist, I don’t care what the rest of the world “thinks of us"(meaning their press and their totalitarian govts).  I expect them to be mean and jealous, because they can’t match us on a level playing field.  So, they have to use the tactics of lying and suborning subversion to have a chance.

Once again, a mouthpiece.  I specifically said that Ken was partially wrong, when he said that napalm was invented for the Japanese mainland; it was used elsewhere before that, which has nothing to do with the use of napalm in general.
Your mouthpiece’s stuff is irrelevant to what I said about using flamethrowers in house to house fighting in Iraq.  We don’t do that.  You once again lie by misleading the dialogue.  We are not the savages there.  Using firebombs as precision munitions against the Iraqi military is completely different.  Shame on you for lying!

Still waiting for you to justify your religion killing it’s own children and women, not to mention the rape and sodomy. Well? Lets hear it, Cunt! Justify yourself. We are waiting.

Khen, rude as usual. Are you proud we incinerated civilians; is that your justification for what we are seeing the military doing now?

We incinerate civilians if that is what needs to be done. No question about it.

Here’s the original story from the Sydney paper:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/08/1060145870882.html

And here’s another on the subject of napalm being used by U.S. troops on Iraqis:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1115-29.htm
From 2005:

Until last week, the US state department maintained that US forces used white phosphorus shells “very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes”....Confronted with the new evidence, on Thursday it changed its position. “We have learned that some of the information we were provided ... is incorrect. ..The US government, in other words, appears to admit that white phosphorus was used in Falluja as a chemical weapon.

The invaders have been forced into a similar climbdown over the use of napalm in Iraq.

Read the whole thing.

Khen says:  We incinerate civilians if that is what needs to be done. No question about it.

Boy keeps bringing up his wife, daughter or mother?: 
”Lets hear it, Cunt! “

Do any of you go to church?

Did I stutter, Dhiane?

diane said, The perception of this country is going down daily because of such things all over the world.

I find it amusing that you tell us that you don’t care what we here at this blog think of you one minute and then lament that America’s enemies don’t like us the next. I also find it a bit amusing that you are a big part of the reason why the perception of this country is presumedly going down. You’re supposedly an American and yet you always assume the worst about her actions and intentions.

I just wonder why you are against everything that it takes to win the war. You’re against such things as precision bombing! I am left with no choice but to conclude that you want America to lose.

Listen diane, if you’re looking for a perfect war where nobody who is innocent will die, you’re not going to find it.

Khen says we can incinerate them if necessary.

Perfect war doesn’t even make sense as a term.  Pre-emptive war is what this is.  No attack on us by the country we are occupying.

****************************

Human beings are flawed creatures.

Well then, why blame them when they fly planes into buildings, using your logic.

And, so what that human beings are ‘flawed creatures’?  This excuses nothing when it’s your child raped and body burned, does it?  Would you buy it then?

*****************************

Add the flawed nature of us in with the ones who are just plain messed up and you’re going to have incidents where the men and women act less than honorable.

All the more reason to hold them to a higher standard and more responsibility when they are bearing arms and underwritten by our tax dollars.

************

Anyways,...do you know that our enemy is using you? They know that they can accuse our military men and women of atrocities and then sit back and watch as people like you tear the U.S. military down without any evidence except their word.

Totally wrong.  Americans NEED TO STAND UP WHEN THEY BELIEVE THEIR COUNTRY IS WRONG.  You will never convince me otherwise.

**************

Couple this with their willingness to throw their own children out in front of them as shields to make it harder for our incredibly self-restrained men to shoot back and we have a nasty situation.

That’s assinine and you know it.  There have been no reports of Iraqis throwing their own children out in front of them as shields that I know of.  Was it alleged, do you have links to it?

If not, you’re being devious or silly.

I’m probably one of the very few true, patriotic Americans on this blog, Lik Widshoe.

The rest of you are going to bring America down with this filthy war and the fact that it cannot be won.  You will make us not only a laughingstock, but a hated one (as we already are) and you will, in the process, continue to kill young Americans and innocent Iraqis.

Shame on all of you and good-day.  I’ve had all I can stomach for this round.

Oh yes, and read the whole thing while I’m gone:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul331.html

And be very ashamed.

The major obstacle to a sensible foreign policy is the fiction about what patriotism means. Today patriotism has come to mean blind support for the government and its policies. In earlier times patriotism meant having the willingness and courage to challenge government policies regardless of popular perceptions.

Today we constantly hear innuendos and direct insults aimed at those who dare to challenge current foreign policy, no matter how flawed that policy may be. I would suggest it takes more courage to admit the truth, to admit mistakes, than to attack others as unpatriotic for disagreeing with the war in Iraq.

Don’t miss that.  Read it several times.

Khen says we can incinerate them if necessary.

That nickname just doesn’t make sense to use. But anyways, we should do whatever it takes to win the war. Our current restraint is a luxury.

Perfect war doesn’t even make sense as a term. Pre-emptive war is what this is. No attack on us by the country we are occupying.

That is not true. They shot at our planes daily for eleven years and funded terrorists that targetted the United States.

Well then, why blame them when they fly planes into buildings, using your logic.

That’s not using my logic. I didn’t say that those flawed individuals shouldn’t be punished for their deeds, did I?

And, so what that human beings are ‘flawed creatures’? This excuses nothing when it’s your child raped and body burned, does it? Would you buy it then?

Again, I’m not excusing the actions. I’m just saying that things will happen whenever a large group of people come together. There are always a few bad apples. Again, this is not excusing the actions committed.

All the more reason to hold them to a higher standard and more responsibility when they are bearing arms and underwritten by our tax dollars.

Most certainly. By the same token, I won’t convict the entire group based on the actions of the very few. There is responsibility on our ends as well.

Totally wrong. Americans NEED TO STAND UP WHEN THEY BELIEVE THEIR COUNTRY IS WRONG. You will never convince me otherwise.

Standing up for what you believe in is one thing and I would never and have never tried to convince you otherwise. Automatically assuming guilt is quite another. Automatically assuming the worst intentions is also quite another. In any regard, I’m not wrong. Our enemy knows that he can claim just about anything and people, much like you are doing here, will believe it without evidence. You assume that America is the bad guy.

That’s assinine and you know it. There have been no reports of Iraqis throwing their own children out in front of them as shields that I know of.

No. I’m not bullshitting you. That’s a tactic that America’s enemy uses.

Was it alleged, do you have links to it?

It matters if it was alleged now? Quite a turnaround from how you treat America’s soldiers and Marines, I must say. In any regard, the next time I run across such a story, I’ll save the link.

If not, you’re being devious or silly.

Neither diane. Don’t assume.

I’m probably one of the very few true, patriotic Americans on this blog, Lik Widshoe.

Oh, I doubt that. You generally root against America, assume the worst about her intentions and actions, and believe the nameless enemy over our own soldiers.

The rest of you are going to bring America down with this filthy war and the fact that it cannot be won.

What are you talking about? We’re winning! And quickly as well!

You will make us not only a laughingstock, but a hated one (as we already are)...

Who cares? Do you care what we here at this blog think about you? No. Why should we care about what our enemies think about us? They don’t have to like us.

...and you will, in the process, continue to kill young Americans and innocent Iraqis.

Yeah well, that’s war. People die. Just be thankful that it is the United States fighting it because casualties are lower when the United States fights. In any regard, it is not me doing the killing.

And be very ashamed.

I support the taking out of a dictator and the bringing of democracy to a nation that has never experienced it before. I am watching it get done with a minimal amount of life lost and with tremendous speed. There is nothing to be ashamed about. My conscious is clear. Why you insist on assuming the worst about mine and our intentions is beyond me. That is a problem that you have that you need to work on.

The major obstacle to a sensible foreign policy is the fiction about what patriotism means. Today patriotism has come to mean blind support for the government and its policies.

No, that’s not true at all.

I would suggest it takes more courage to admit the truth, to admit mistakes, than to attack others as unpatriotic for disagreeing with the war in Iraq.

Don’t miss that. Read it several times.

You’re setting yourself up as a victim and quite frankly, it is getting damn tiring. The reason that people like you get attacked is because you are rude, blame America first, assume the worst about our intentions, and are incredibly condescending. It has nothing to do with you “admitting the truth” or any other such nonsense as that is wishful thinking on your part.

Now if only you would move away from these emotional-based rants and towards an argument where we could argue the merits of this or that…

Didn’t Rob say something about being able to log-in and block people’s comments that you don’t want to bother reading?  Is that going to happen soon?  (I HOPE)

"Pre-emptive war is what this is. No attack on us by the country we are occupying.”

Nazi Germany never attacked us.

Actually, patriotism is defending your country against those who would destroy it, both from within and from without.  I would have supported both Carter and Clinton, men whom I despised, if they had gone to war against the terrorists.  Because they didn’t, we have to be fighting them now.

I might have supported bush had he not cut and run in Tora Bora and brought to justice the man actually responsible for the attacks on Sept. 11. Instead of invading Iraq.

realitybasedboob,

GWB no more cut and ran from Tora Bora than FDR surrendered the Phillipines to the Empire of Japan.  Not that I expect the distinction to sink in.

And to the res of y’all, I apologize for feeding the lesser troll.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Congressman Ron Paul wrote it, lik, not me.  It was him I was quoting when I said:

Don’t miss that. Read it several times.

You’re setting yourself up as a victim and quite frankly, it is getting damn tiring

Congressman Ron Paul is to George Bush as filet mignon is to cat food.

If people like Ron Paul and those of us who still love and value America can just find a way to pull together we might still possibly take back America from the insanity.  But it looks very difficult; too many who have turned against everything the Constitution stands for.

We can try, however.  We must try.

I hope some of you bloggers took the time to read something beside a blog and read Congressman Ron Paul’s speech from June 29th.

He sees the danger in the direction this country is going and has the courage to speak out against it.

Here are his credentials and I defy any of you to match them yourselves.  If you disagree with me, then you disagree with him, because we see eye to eye on almost everything.  I only wish he were President, not this ‘one’.

****************

Congressman Ron Paul of Texas enjoys a national reputation as the premier advocate for liberty in politics today. Dr. Paul is the leading spokesman in Washington for limited constitutional government, low taxes, free markets, and a return to sound monetary policies based on commodity-backed currency. He is known among both his colleagues in Congress and his constituents for his consistent voting record in the House of Representatives: Dr. Paul never votes for legislation unless the proposed measure is expressly authorized by the Constitution. In the words of former Treasury Secretary William Simon, Dr. Paul is the “one exception to the Gang of 535” on Capitol Hill.

While serving in Congress during the late 1970s and early 1980s, Dr. Paul’s limited-government ideals were not popular in Washington. He served on the House Banking committee, where he was a strong advocate for sound monetary policy and an outspoken critic of the Federal Reserve’s inflationary measures. He also was a key member of the Gold Commission, advocating a return to a gold standard for our currency. He was an unwavering advocate of pro-life and pro-family values. Dr. Paul consistently voted to lower or abolish federal taxes, spending, and regulation, and used his House seat to actively promote the return of government to its proper constitutional levels. In 1984, he voluntarily relinquished his House seat and returned to his medical practice.

Dr. Paul returned to Congress in 1997 to represent the 14th Congressional district of Texas. He serves on the House Financial Services Committee, the International Relations committee, and the Joint Economic Committee. On the Financial Services Committee, Rep. Paul serves as the vice-chairman of the Oversight and Investigations subcommittee. He continues to advocate a dramatic reduction in the size of the federal government and a return to constitutional principles.

Dr. Paul is the author of several books, including Challenge to Liberty; The Case for Gold; and A Republic, If You Can Keep It. He has been a distinguished counselor to the Ludwig von Mises Institute, and is widely quoted by scholars and writers in the fields of monetary policy, banking, and political economy. He has received many awards and honors during his career in Congress, from organizations such as the National Taxpayers Union, Citizens Against Government Waste, the Council for a Competitive Economy, Young Americans for Freedom, and countless others.

Dr. Paul’s consistent voting record prompted one Congressman to comment that “Ron Paul personifies the Founding Fathers’ ideal of the citizen-statesman. He makes it clear that his principles will never be compromised, and they never are.” Another Congresswoman added that “There are few people in public life who, through thick and thin, rain or shine, stick to their principles. Ron Paul is one of those few.”

The Ron Paul FREEDOM PRINCIPLES

Rights belong to individuals, not groups.
Property should be owned by people, not government.
All voluntary associations should be permissible—economic and social.
The government’s monetary role is to maintain the integrity of the monetary unit, not participate in fraud.
Government exists to protect liberty, not to redistribute wealth or to grant special privileges.
The lives and actions of people are their own responsibility, not the government’s.

The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.

diane offers, Here are his credentials and I defy any of you to match them yourselves.

It’s one thing to mention his credentials to give your argument a small authoritative boost. Quite another when it becomes your entire argument.

Folks,

What we have here is another case of shifting the goal posts in the first degree:

realiybasedboob first stated:

I might have supported bush had he not cut and run in Tora Bora and brought to justice the man actually responsible for the attacks on Sept. 11. Instead of invading Iraq.

Which of course does not pertain as I noted in my reply:

>GWB no more cut and ran from Tora Bora than FDR surrendered the Phillipines to the Empire of Japan. Not that I expect the distinction to sink in.

Which, on reflection, needs further explanation.  GWB (and FDR), unlike Dhimmy Carter and Lynden Banefull, does not attempt to micromanage his forces in the field.  He has field commanders for that.

Then our lesser troll shifted the goal posts with this:

The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.

Which of course puts the lie to his earlier accusation that GWB “cut and ran” from Tora Bora.  A rather nice job of self refutation in the course of changing the argument.

Folks, they’re trolls.

They are not persuasible.

Engaging them is like wrestling with a pig; it gets the other party dirty and the pig enjoys it.

Don’t feed the trolls.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Oh, like you are persuasible.

What an ass.

Bill Clinton could have accepted Osama Bin Laden when the Sudenese offered him up.

The operation at Tora Bora was a military one with military objectives run by the military in Afganistan. 

How many troops did we ever have in Afganistan. Considering the logistic problems (where nearly everything is flown in especially at the time of Tora Bora) how many troops COULD we support on the ground?

If the objective was to arrest a guy, how come the leftards aren’t upset about Clintone’s failure?  That likely would have stopped 9/11 whereas since Tora Bora, OBL is nothing but a kook on the run.

War isn’t about revenge or arresting the top opponent.  (as sweet as that might be).  It’s about attaining your objectives.

Why do you guys hijack every thread and turn it into an I hate Clinton raga?

Is Ireland a neutral country or not?

RBB:

LOL if that’s the least pathetic you can do.

Mission Accomplished…made you laugh