Say Anything Blog

Thanks Rob, I will add this to my Memo for Record and contrast the Democrat’s rule with the Republicans next year and the year after.

Communism is evil

To hear the libs talk, you would think the economy was going through another depression like 1929…

Chief...I love thay you are keeping track. I hope you will remind us quite frequently.

It will be difficult to out do the Republicans in the spending department, but we’ll give it a try. If we withdraw from Iraq, can we spend that money on social programs or do we have to put it aside for more military hardware for the next war? Hi, everyone. Just trying to wake you up.

How about Option C: give the people their money back.

More tax cuts!

If we withdraw from Iraq, can we spend that money on social programs

Margie,

Why the ambiguity?  You could have said it better:

If we quit on the Iraqis and allow America to be shamed and the terrorists to claim a moral victory, we can take the money we were spending on defending and advancing the cause of liberty and start oppressing more Americans with our socialist utopian dreams of unjust equality.

HG/Margie: This type of thinking illustrates the monumental ignorance of the majority of people about economics.  That “money” is not just lying around, waiting to be spent on something; it is created by demand.  Since there is little real demand for social spending, it does not generate its own funding; it has to be confiscated from someone who would not normally choose to spend their money on social spending.  War, on the other hand, has an actual payoff, and generates its own demand.  In other words, without the war, that money would not be produced.  It is produced for the purpose of defending our way of life, which is quite precious.
Furnishing beer and cigarettes for the unproductive, on the other hand, has little real value for anyone except politicians.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

Down, boy, that was an admitted flippant stir of the pot to get a reaction because no one was saying much at the time.  Not that Republicans haven’t done a fine job of wallowing in pork for their states. Democrats will be hard pressed to keep up during their turn at the trough.

Democrats will be hard pressed to keep up during their turn at the trough.

Do we really need to go over how much the “New Deal” and “Great Society” programs have cost us?

Please,..your ignorance is uncalled for Margie. You’ve already outdone the entire world in the spending department, no need for you to get all smarmy. You’ve already “won”.

Down, boy, that was an admitted flippant stir of the pot to get a reaction because no one was saying much at the time.

Don’t do us any favors, OK?  Like a lot of trolls on this blog, there is a seemingly sincere statement, which, when refuted, gets justified as “I was only being the devil’s advocate here.” “I was just stirring the pot” is a very poor excuse. 
As far as the national debt is concerned, check out LBJ sometime.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

The Republican spending was probably a stratagy to pacify Dems??? This particular group needed some spine stiffening if you ask me.

That’s a rather narrow view.  Most of those 7 million jobs are in the construction industry, which can be attributed to the printing presses thrown in overdrive printing money and then the interest rates were lowered so drastically money was almost free.  This shenanigan is almost over those “7 million jobs” are going to evaporate.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
- John Adams

Troy doesn’t know much does he?

[W]hat you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

They will evaporate allright! When the Dems start raising taxes on the productive sector of the economy…

Christmas spending is at an all time high; $800 per person. How is this possible with a “George Bush economy?”

Kevin...I heard somewhere that Construction workers have all the jobs???

New home starts are down, rehab and remodeling are up. There is a glut of new residential and commercial structures, nationwide. You cannot continue to build new when existing structures can fulfil the market need.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Kevin, how much of that is put on credit cards?

A lot, I hope. I have a big investment in a regional bank!(:^)

puzzledf**k can not get a credit card. BooHoo.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Oh, Guttermouth, it’s Christmas, maybe someone will donate a pig to you so get feeling all happy again.

Troy

Most of those 7 million jobs are in the construction industry,

The total construction labor market is less than seven million total—more like 6.37 million according to http://www.bls.gov.

Highest growth by sector is health services, by the way.  Followed by the technology sector.  Common sense should have told you that.

which can be attributed to the printing presses thrown in overdrive printing money and then the interest rates were lowered so drastically money was almost free.

If the printing presses where “thrown into overdrive printing money”, we’d be in a hyper-inflationary state right now, not looking at a 2.5% inflation rate.

You obviously have no clue what you’re talking about.

The economy is up, personal income is up, and your union membership is falling. It is a wonderful Christmas!

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Carrick: There is nothing quite so profound as economic ignorance coupled with arrogance.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

Margie:

Not that Republicans haven’t done a fine job of wallowing in pork for their states.

Proving again that ignorance is not bliss.  At least in Margie’s case, it appears to create greater misery.

She has no clue how “pork barrel” spending has changed in e.g. the last 10 years (it has gone down), what people are calling “pork” (roads, health care, etc.)

Really the only rational complaint that I’ve seen is that earmarked spending can be abused, as it has been regularly by Murtha to pay kickbacks to his buddies.  But a rational look at the majority of earmarked expenditures in the last five years suggest that they were at least well spent on infrastructure-related projects, and not on wasteful larks.

When I see things from the pork barrel critics that involves actual facts and not just emotionally laden language, I’ll take them a bit more seriously.  So far their arguments resemble slippery used-car salesmen rather than people with a rational understanding of the facts.

Carrick two points.  You forgot to point out that Troy is claiming that printing money leads to low interest rates.  That’s exactly opposite as investors factor in expected inflation when they offer to lend money.  His point is EXACTLY wrong.

You have a good point about good pork and bad pork.  Citizens against government waste classify pork as how it gets in there rather than if it was a project that needs to be done.  According to them earmarks are bad while projects chosen through the bureaucracy or through committee are good.

I can see why they do it that way, but It’s not the right way to do it.

[W]hat you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

TW:

According to them earmarks are bad while projects chosen through the bureaucracy or through committee are good.

I can see why they do it that way, but It’s not the right way to do it.

I certainly agree with this.  Letting central committees decide how money should be spent region-by-region is very much not in keeping with Republicanism ideology.  We can all agree that better supervision needs to be there, to stop wasteful projects (even if they aren’t a meaningful fraction of total federal spending) and especially to reduce ethically questionable spending (e.g., Murtha).

I like the idea of improved transparency, as long as it comes with greater scrutiny of governmental critics as well as the government itself.  Wrong is wrong, regardless of whether you agree with their politics.

r! First I want permission to tag this line,and scatter it far and wide.

And troy, Dept of Tre. has printed less currency in the last 5 years, not more. You idiot.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Troy is claiming that printing money leads to low interest rates.

I didn’t make this claim.  Helicopter Ben printed the money and needed a way to get it into the system. Lowering interest rates was the way he did it.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
- John Adams

If the printing presses where “thrown into overdrive printing money”, we’d be in a hyper-inflationary state right now, not looking at a 2.5% inflation rate.

It is my view that inflation is quite higher than what the government reports and inflation is at least 3X what you quoted.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
- John Adams

Carrick: There is nothing quite so profound as economic ignorance coupled with arrogance.

Touche!

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
- John Adams

Actually Troy, the latest numbers on the Bureau of labor statistics is 1.3% for the 12 months ending October 31st 2006.

But go ahead and believe what you want to believe.

[W]hat you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Like most lefties, Troy is working from an ideological point of view.  Karl Marx declared that our system doesn’t work, so when it appears to not only work, but to work better than any other system, then something else is wrong.  In this case, since the economic facts don’t agree with his prejudiced position, the stats are lying to us.  This lying and fabrication by the lefties has been going on since the beginning of the Twentieth Century.
BTW, Troy, that statement I wrote to Carrick describes you.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

It is odd how much of the liberal thinking ignores the truth.

ZZ: It’s like their approach to elections: They win, or we cheated.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

Robert108...6 million jews died in the holocaust and yet there are people who refuse to admit it??? Why would they admit that our economy is doing well now? Especially when they Hate the President…

ZZ: Exactly.  They are blinded to the truth by the emotion of hate.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

IF bill Clinton or a Democrack had this great of economy? We would be hearing them sing the praises of how great the economy is. AND no doubt the MSM [morans] would be leading the hymns.

Troy is working from an ideological point of view.  Karl Marx declared that our system doesn’t work, so when it appears to not only work, but to work better than any other system, then something else is wrong.

I have never made this claim or use this system of thought.  I believe we do have the best system in the world if it is allowed to work properly.  Since 1994 (under Clinton ZZ)the stats that are reported by the government have been manipulated. 

My “agenda” that r108 always talks about is not to create a socialist state, rather I would like honest, and increased transperacy from the government.  The formulas used to calculate the stats such as CPI, Jobs Created/lost ie, are constantly being revised in such a manner that they no longer reflect what they did several decades ago.  Which President was the first to start this practice? A Democrat name Kennedy and then it was taken up a notch by Johnson another democrat! And has followed every administration afterward.

I am not a Socialist.  I simply believe that our economy is not as great as reported.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
- John Adams

For our sake, I hope not many believe as you do.  A great portion of economic behavior is emotionally-driven.  Despite all the lying and downtalking in the MSM for the last 6 years, sourced mostly in an intense hatred of President Bush, the economy has done very well.  Imagine what it would be doing if the reporting was fair and truth-based!  You may want to believe that what is obviously is really not so, but that is belief, not fact, by your own admission.  Even if your premise is true, might not things be better than reported?  Kennedy, Johnson and Clinton certainly had incentive to downplay the bad effects of their leftie economics, but President Bush does not.  Noting that Kennedy had the good sense to cut marginal tax rates, even though he ratcheted up social spending.
BTW, if you don’t buy into Marxist thinking, very good.  Nevertheless, you come to much the same conclusion, so what’s the difference?  I use Marxism as an example of wrong economic thinking, not as some feeling-loaded label.  When I see or hear Marxist thinking, I call it for what it is.  Anyone who believes that capital oppresses labor is a Marxist, whether they know it or not. Anyone who believes that when one person gets more, someone else has to get less is also a Marxist, whether they know it or not.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

Troy...I believe we have the best system in the world too. I believe we need a two party system. BUT I also believe that our economy is booming. At least in Texas. There are more jobs available right here where I live, for those who want them. I also regret the Radical liberals who can not face the fact that Radical Islam is playing them like a violin. There best weapon is the MSM and the rest of the radical liberals fighting against the US economy. Not to mention the hate they cling to for our President!

Troy:

The formulas used to calculate the stats such as CPI, Jobs Created/lost ie, are constantly being revised in such a manner that they no longer reflect what they did several decades ago.

In the two decade, there was a single time that corrections were made to how we count jobs.  This resulted in a net one-time 300,000 jobs boost for Clinton in 2000.  BFD.

Where are you getting all of this nonsense?

It is my view that inflation is quite higher than what the government reports and inflation is at least 3X what you quoted.

Troy, this 3x=7.5% is made up nonsense.  Other than energy costs (which make up about 5% of the average American’s budget or less), what has gone up by 7.5% at any point during the year?  Even energy costs are back to where they were a year ago.

You are making yourself look like a paranoid delusional here.  Get a grip on yourself, man!

Carrick: I do know that during the Carter admin, even though inflation was reported to be around 10-12%, it was actually a lot higher on everyday products, more like 50%.  If there is lying and jiggering of economic indicators, it’s mostly to hide the bad economic effects of the Dems’ socialist policies.  Prosperity speaks for itself, on the other hand.

The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

I am not saying anything different than Warren Buffet, maybe not as eloquently, but nothing different. You may not see it yet.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
- John Adams

I ain’t no big time economic thinker like you is, Troy, but the last thing I read by Mr Buffet had not a single line in it about America’s economy being in the shitter and inflation running 3x higher than reported. Nope, that was all you.

If you are to believed we are in the depths of the worst depression in recorded human history, and will all be out in the street starving before Christmas.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

By the way Troy, Mr. Buffet has actually made a brazillion dollars exploiting the death tax laws.

What happens is that when the founder of a business passes away the heirs cannot afford the death tax.  They’re forced to sell and Buffet has made his money on these forced sales. 

As it turns out Mr. Buffett is against eliminating the death tax.  Go figure.

As for the rest of you comment it makes no sense.  You need to go back and start school over at Kindergarten.

[W]hat you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Troy, if you are claiming that this is from Warren Buffet, the least you can do is point us to his original statement via a URL.  Otherwise, my inclination is to assume you’ve jumped the shark on this one, and let it slide....