Say Anything Blog

That teacher could have solved all these problems by just having an abortion. She’ll learn her lesson after losing this lawsuit.

I believe in enlightened California, Catholic schools are required to offer health insurance that includes birth control.  Seems kind of odd, doesn’t it?

That teacher could have solved all these problems by just having an abortion. She’ll learn her lesson after losing this lawsuit.

Right.  Because killing your unborn child is preferable to just finding another job.

People never want to take responsibility for anything.  This woman doesn’t want to be responsible for following the rules of decorum set out by her employer when she was hired.  Dave doesn’t want to take responsibility for getting pregnant.

Its become a “pass the buck” society.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

She doesn’t have a case: the school is private, and as such, all of its employees are at will. They can fire you and not give a reason, and they don’t have to abide by the general non-discrimination policies that state agencies have to.

She also may have had an ethics clause, as she was hired by the Catholic school, which would allow her terminiation if she no longer abided by the Catholic example she is supposed to set for the kids. Either way, the case’ll get dismissed. They are totally allowed to fire her.

The ACLU does this a lot. These cases get dismissed right away, but they file them just to sort of scare the pants off of various agencies. Its all for show.

:o)

Jesus Christ himself was born to a unwed mother. Nobody fired her.The real issue should be premarital sex. It is not illegal in the good old USA (premarital sex). It is condoned,
glorified,and one would argue a national pastime. One of the consequenses of premarital sex is pregnancy. You all should stop condeming the woman alone, because she did not have an immaculate conception. Where is the father of this unborn child? And to quote scripture:"let him who hath no sin cast the first stone.” Are any of you out there without sin?

Right. Because killing your unborn child is preferable to just finding another job.

ellinas said, And to quote scripture:”let him who hath no sin cast the first stone.” Are any of you out there without sin?

So what you’re saying is that we can never make a judgement.

Well that makes for a shallow life.

Dave said, No, but that is the obvious implication of that school’s policy.

Only in your twisted mind Dave. Are you done arguing for infanticide for the moment? Back to advocating for abortion?

According to the bible one is not to judge nor criticize.
Do you likwidshoe disagree with Christs’ teachings? Did you have sex outside marriage? Did you have premarital sex? According to the bible all those are sins. All Christians including catholics teach the above. Yet i see no preacher or priest standing in front of the church door with a virginity test for the unwed, or asking anybody if they have sinned, and if they have, then stopping them from entering the church.

According to the bible one is not to judge nor criticize.

Don’t go throwing the bible around here.  Most of us are pretty a-religious.

All Christians including catholics teach the above. Yet i see no preacher or priest standing in front of the church door with a virginity test for the unwed, or asking anybody if they have sinned, and if they have, then stopping them from entering the church.

There is a difference between a worshiper in the church and someone hired by the church to educate children.  Certainly, priests who break the vow of celebacy are “fired” (or whatever it is they do to priests who do that stuff).  Why should it be any different with teachers?

These people are practicing their religion.  Who are you, ellinas, to interfere?

No, but that is the obvious implication of that school’s policy.

Wait, so are you saying that abortion is worse than finding a new job?  Am I seeing some shuffling of priorities from infanticide boy?

Do you really think there’s any chance that, if she could do it all over again, that woman would NOT have had an abortion? The policy practically supports it!

One would hope, that if she had it all to do over again, she wouldn’t have engaged in the sex that got her pregnant (which is what the policy discouraged

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Am I seeing some shuffling of priorities from infanticide boy?

Well then, congratulations on at least a partial return to your senses.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

ellinas said, According to the bible one is not to judge nor criticize.

Really? Where does it say that? As far as I can see, the Bible is BIG on making judgements. A great part of the rules only can be made by making judgements.

Do you likwidshoe disagree with Christs’ teachings?

I don’t know because I don’t know all of his teachings.

Yet i see no preacher or priest standing in front of the church door with a virginity test for the unwed, or asking anybody if they have sinned, and if they have, then stopping them from entering the church.

They’ll preach to you, but that doesn’t mean that they’ll hire you.

Not sure if you realize it or not, but each hire and employee of anything - church, private business, charity, government - represents the organization. If it is found that the employee doesn’t represent the organization and possibly reflects badly upon the organization, termination of employment is due. This case of a pregnant unwed mother violates some of the church’s deeply held beliefs and rules. Termination of employment makes sense.

ellinas said, According to the bible one is not to judge nor criticize.
likwidshoe said:Really? Where does it say that? As far as I can see, the Bible is BIG on making judgements. A great part of the rules only can be made by making judgements.

Likwidshoe maybe you should not be challenging people in matters that you are not knowledgeable. Here it goes my friend: Mathew chapter 7, 1 through 5 says: JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED.
2 For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged:  and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Etc, etc.

ellinas said, Likwidshoe maybe you should not be challenging people in matters that you are not knowledgeable

Excuse me?

Here it goes my friend: Mathew chapter 7, 1 through 5 says: JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED.
2 For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Is that in between the describing of sins? Anyways, as robert108 said, the passage merely says that you will be judged as well and with the same measures that you judge.

In any regard, you should have finished the passage,

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Maybe you didn’t include it because it negates your entire claim.

Come armed the next time you want to battle wits ellinas.

ellinas: My take on that particular scripture is that it doesn’t forbid judging, it just says that the consequences of judging are that the judger will also be judged. It seems to be in the spirit of Newton’s Third Law of Motion that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. I take it as an exhortation to be fair and honest in one’s judgments.  We can’t live without making judgments, as in what foods are good and what foods will make us sick, for instance.

You make my point.  You left out the part about being fair and honest in your judgments and the part about equal and opposite reaction.  The passage describes, according to your quote, the consequences of judging in a hypocritcal manner.  It doesn’t absolutely forbid judgment.  Try again.

I did not include the whole scripture because i got lazy and I am not good at typing fast.

The scripture was written in Aramaic and translated into Greek.I am very fluent in the Greek language, for i was born, raised, and educated in Greece.In the Greek schools we did study the bible. Judge not,in Greek means just that, and leaves no room to wiggle. I agree with you that on matters of employment the school has the right to set standards and expect their employees to abide by those standards.I brought forth the scriptures to point the hypocrisy. After all when Jesus was asked which law one should follow he said:"Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God whats God’s”.In this context which directive should the school follow?

robert108 said, All this conversation about the meaning of scripture is really beside the point of the thread, don’t you think?

The point of the thread was hijacked by someone who believes that Christians can’t make any kind of judgements or criticisms. Even better, he thinks that he has the Bible on his side proving his claims. Better still, he is obviously and provably misreading the thing.

So come on, who didn’t see this thread getting hijacked by the comprehension impaired? It happens just about every time Christianity is brought up and it often happens with Matthew 7:1-5.

In other words robert: it is simply sport at this point. Consider me the dangerous hunter with a big gun and ellinas the crippled deer with a broken leg.

Alright,..this agnostic is out for the night. God Bless…

All this conversation about the meaning of scripture is really beside the point of the thread, don’t you think?  This woman is teaching children, who look upon her as a moral authority and as a teacher.  She has done something which, as a human being, is regrettable, but as a teacher of the young, is unethical.  Some of those kids will probably think it’s cool to have premarital sex now, and to have children out of wedlock is also OK, because our teacher did it.  It is teaching by example, and she is setting a bad example.  That is reason enough to fire her, especially from a Catholic school.  It should be enough to get her fired from a public school, in my opinion. Moral relativism is a quick path to moral and ethical decay.  It is far worse than hypocrisy, for example.

ellinas said, The scripture was written in Aramaic and translated into Greek.I am very fluent in the Greek language, for i was born, raised, and educated in Greece.In the Greek schools we did study the bible.

Appeal to authority. I do note that your claims say nothing of your comprehension abilities.

Judge not,in Greek means just that, and leaves no room to wiggle.

That is regardless because you need to continue reading it. You’re only giving us part of the quote. And what you’re trying to do is to use the quote in the same way that bad teenagers do when they want to excuse wayward behavior. Plus you’re using the quote as a beating stick against Christians who make any kind of judgement. That is galling to me for some reason.

I brought forth the scriptures to point the hypocrisy.

You haven’t done that. Matt 7:1-5 does not say to not judge or criticize. It says to not judge with unfairness or superficiality.

...and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

How can you “cast the mote out of they brother’s eye” without making a judgement? You can’t! Instead of focusing on the two words of “judge not”, you need to focus on that last sentence and put it all into context.

After all when Jesus was asked which law one should follow he said:”Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God whats God’s”.In this context which directive should the school follow?

Give to the school what is the school’s.

I will now leave you with more quotes out of that bible you claimed you have studied.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

One of my favourite verses and tough guidance to follow. Some interesting commentary here and here. It’s good advice for all of us.

Debate is about exchanging ideas. I do comprehend the bible, and have stated that on matters of employment the school has the right to set standards and expect their employees to abide by those standards.You are so intent into proving me wrong that you have missed my whole point.
People judge others by many standards, and do not apply those standards equally or fairly. They are rather blinded by self righteousness, and their need to prove that they are hollier then thou.

ellinas:  In the first place, there is no debate without disagreement.  Of course, the scripture we have all quoted exhorts us to judge fairly and without hypocrisy.  The fact that there are some people who are hypocritical and self-righteous in their judgments is a given.  I would rather focus on those who are not self-righteous and hypocritical, however.  I see no virtue in “going negative”.  I would submit, in the specific case of the subject of this thread, that even if those school officials are self-righteous hypocrites, there is a larger issue, which trumps everything else:  The education of the children in that school.  It is more a matter of firing everyone who would lead the children astray by either teaching or by personal example, than not firing one particular woman because of some PC standards.  Which is the greater evil?  Which is the greater good?  Now there’s a debate!

I’ve always preferred Ayn Rand’s take on that precept:  “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.”

which is, I believe, from The Virtue of Selfishness.

I would just like to point out the obvious connection that is either being missed here or not being stated clearly enough in regards to Christ’s teaching of Judging one another…

When Christ says, “Judge not, lest you be judged” it is not an admonition not to judge at all:

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

In other words, make yourself blameless before the Lord before you approach others with judgement.

The obvious connection here is that this woman, as a teacher in a Catholic school, is a leader and an example to her pupils.  How difficult would it be for her to admonish her students in regards to morality when she is walking around with a Scarlet Letter on her shoulder?  By making her decision to have sex out of wedlock, and exposing this decision by getting pregnant, she is permanently inserting a “log” into her eye that others will always be able to point out.  She undercut her own authority and is mostly useless in being a moral example to her students.

She should have had the courage of her convictions to resigne herself and shame on her for not doing so…

I PURPOSELY INJECTED RELIGION INTO THE DEBATE,TO SEE HOW THE THREAD WOULD EVOLVE.  PS: SEE HOW EASY IT IS FOR RELIGIOUS FANATICS TO SIDETRACK AND HIJACK IMPORTANT ISSUES?

No matter how you all interpret and twist the above mentioned scripture,still I say unto you: JUDGE NOT. One of the goals of the church, is to take the sinner into its fold and attempt to rehabilitate the person and bring them closer to it’s teachings. Tolerance is the cornerstone of the Christian faith.
LESSON TO ALL: KEEP RELIGION AT HOME AND AT THE CHURCH, FOR EACH ONE OF US WILL USE RELIGION TO IMPOSE OUR VIEWS ON OTHERS.

ellinas:  Your words convict you.  Just because you admit to being a religious fanatic, doesn’t mean that anyone else on this blog is one. You used scripture to jack this thread, by your own admission.  Some of us called for a return to the original thread all along.

ellinas blows out, No matter how you all interpret and twist the above mentioned scripture,still I say unto you: JUDGE NOT.

Kindly point out how this logic doesn’t apply or is wrong or kindly shut up with your insults.

LESSON TO ALL: KEEP RELIGION AT HOME AND AT THE CHURCH, FOR EACH ONE OF US WILL USE RELIGION TO IMPOSE OUR VIEWS ON OTHERS.

Speak for yourself. People practicing and displaying their religion and religious practices in the public square does not equal an imposition of views upon others.

I PURPOSELY INJECTED RELIGION INTO THE DEBATE,TO SEE HOW THE THREAD WOULD EVOLVE. PS: SEE HOW EASY IT IS FOR RELIGIOUS FANATICS TO SIDETRACK AND HIJACK IMPORTANT ISSUES?

So a “religious fanatic” is someone who disagrees with your self serving mangling of the language. Thank you for alerting me to the fact that I (the agnostic “RELIGIOUS FANATIC") have been talking to an unserious clown who isn’t here on good terms.

Likwidshoe why do you always try to insult people?
I have agreed in the matter of employer rights,8 posts ago.
I am disagreeing with the hypocrisy of some religious fanatics.All I am trying to point to anyone with an open mind,is that if this teacher was their daughter the standards would more then likely have been different.
PEACE BROTHER. You always sound angry, and display agreat deal of aggression. It has been proven that good wholesome sex (not the gay kind) takes the edge off a frustrated guy and calms him down.

Likwidshoe why do you always try to insult people?

I only responded to you in kind chief. Go ahead and look up through the comments.

I am disagreeing with the hypocrisy of some religious fanatics.

That may be so, but your point that showed the supposed “hypocrisy” was refuted. And considering your definition of “religious fanatics”, give me a break. It is appearant that anybody who disagrees with your view is one. I mean, come on, I’m an agnostic and you lump me in with the “religious fanatics”? Get real pal.

All I am trying to point to anyone with an open mind...

Haha. The “open mind” comment. Anybody who has spent any amount of time debating online is well aware of this one. It basically means that one has to agree with his opponent; for if he doesn’t, he is said to not have an “open mind”.

...is that if this teacher was their daughter the standards would more then likely have been different.

Oh. So now we’ve moved onto speculation. “Open mind” speculation of course.

PEACE BROTHER.

I am not your brother. You’re just some schmuck on the Internet in my eyes.

You always sound angry, and display agreat deal of aggression.

Huh. And I’ve been toning it down of late. Go figure.

It has been proven that good wholesome sex (not the gay kind) takes the edge off a frustrated guy and calms him down.

I’ll keep that in mind for when I am “frustrated”. Thanks.

Darn it Likwidshoe, do you stay up all night just so you don’t miss anything?
Someone (me, ellinas eg.) you are having a conversation with is not you enemy. You can hurl insults all you want,for i am not affected. I dont hate you nor consider you an enemy. I don’t know you therefore I cannot judge you.

ellinas...wecome to the club. I too have felt perplexed and aggravated by lik’s unorthodox discussion style in the past but,once you get to know him, you learn not to take his comments too personally or too seriously.

ellinas said, Someone (me, ellinas eg.) you are having a conversation with is not you enemy.

I don’t think you are my enemy, but thanks for the confirmation.

You can hurl insults all you want,for i am not affected.

Whatever you say there “RELIGIOUS FANATICS” guy.

MikeAdamson said I too have felt perplexed and aggravated by lik’s unorthodox discussion style in the past but,once you get to know him, you learn not to take his comments too personally or too seriously.

Egh...then don’t take my comments seriously Mike.

signed - an Ohio voter for Bush

Ellinas~
So you use Scripture to try to make your point, then when you are soundly shot down, you make a pathetic attempt to save face and, realizing you’ve lost the Scritpure debate, call everyone who has engaged you in the debate you you brought up a religious fanatic…

Sad… And may you never use Scripture to butress your aguement again since you have reasonably shown that you have no idea what you’re talking about…