A Sign Of Things To Come: Teetering On The Edge Of Insolvency, Medicare Begins Rationing Health Care

After announcing that the program will plunge into the red this year when expenditures extend beyond revenues, Medicare’s bureaucrats are looking at ways to save money. And what they’ve come up with so far is exactly the sort of thing government health care critics have been warning about for years: rationing.
Because under nationalized health care, your health is only worth whatever figure some government bean counter assigns to it.

Desperate to prevent medical costs from engulfing the federal budget, the program’s central planners decided last week to deny payment for a new version of one of life’s most unpleasant routine procedures, the colonoscopy. This is a preview of how health care will be rationed when Democrats get their way.
At issue are “virtual colonoscopies,” or CT scans of the abdomen. Colon cancer is the second leading cause of U.S. cancer death but one of the most preventable. Found early, the cure rate is 93%, but only 8% at later stages. Virtual colonoscopies are likely to boost screenings because they are quicker, more comfortable and significantly cheaper than the standard “optical” procedure, which involves anesthesia and threading an endoscope through the lower intestine.
Virtual colonoscopies are endorsed by the American Cancer Society and covered by a growing number of private insurers including Cigna and UnitedHealthcare. The problem for Medicare is that if cancerous lesions are found using a scan, then patients must follow up with a traditional colonoscopy anyway. Costs would be lower if everyone simply took the invasive route, where doctors can remove polyps on the spot. As Medicare noted in its ruling, “If there is a relatively high referral rate [for traditional colonoscopy], the utility of an intermediate test such as CT colonography is limited.” In other words, duplication would be too pricey.

“Too pricey.” That despite the fact that virtual colonoscopies could catch cancer earlier and save people’s lives.
Those are the sorts of decisions we invite government to make for us when we invite them to provide us with health care. A system of health care where you can only get the health care you can afford to pay for is far from optimal, but it’s better than allowing some bureaucrat to make arbitrary decisions about the care you receive based on their bottom line and not your health.
And make no doubt about it. These same rationing decisions can, and would, happen if America gets stuck with a nationalized health care system.

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  • http://Array robert108

    MZ: To my knowledge, there is no affirmative argument for homosexual behavior.

  • Carol

    Without Medicare many people wouldn’t have even basic health care much less expensive state-of-the-art diagnostics. The premiums would outstrip their incomes.

    That said, if rich old people desire it, they can get full body scans daily if they want to pay for it themselves. As for giving trendy treatment to the very old and sick- it’s just not worth it. We all gotta die sometime.

    How utterly stupid and unfeeling can one get?? You’re telling me that my 91 year old mother who still drove, and who still volunteered assisting “senior citizens”, who still lived by herself and who her last Christmas made 24 pair of flannel pajamas for my family and me wasn’t worth treatment?? She died of cancer 8 months ago. Five days before she died of breast cancer that metastasized to her bones she went to a baseball tournament and had the time of her life.

    I know that down the road you will eat your words when Medicare or whatever refuses to pay for care for your loved one. When that loved one dies and the medical facilities come after you for payment you’ll eat crow. Laugh then dummy. I will be.

  • Daffy

    So AIDS is voluntary, except when it’s not. Gotcha.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Contradictory statements are fun:

    Without Medicare many people wouldn’t have even basic health care much less expensive state-of-the-art diagnostics. The premiums would outstrip their incomes.

    Vs.

    That said, if rich old people desire it, they can get full body scans daily if they want to pay for it themselves. As for giving trendy treatment to the very old and sick- it’s just not worth it. We all gotta die sometime.

    We provide care! Just not good care. Or care that’ll save your life or anything. How’s 2018 sound for that vital heart surgery you needed yesterday?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    It’s easy to demonize “them” isn’t it?

    Actually, between the preying on children by raping them, their incessant attacks on Christianity and Middle American moral values and the broad range of diseases they are introducing and spreading within society, the way they are in our faces with their public displays of their perversion,

    (my apologies to the readers at SAB, but this is the true face of homosexual freedom)

    http://americansfortruth.com/news/nud ity-fills-san-francisco-streets-again-as-cops-look-on-and-do-nothing-at-up-your-alley-street-fair.html

    I’d say they are doing a pretty good job of it themselves.

  • robert108

    And I’m the “ignorant hater”? I’m not the one throwing slurs around.

    You make the typical mistake of trying to justify your bad behavior(calling someone’s valid opinion “bigotry” instead of making a valid argument) by trying to distract with some random person’s bad behavior. One doesn’t justify the other.

    Nice try, though.

  • http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

    Mark Levin has been covering this on his show for a long time.
    The leftards are going to ruin the medical system in our country.
    Now they can decide what you get for treatment. Coming next is fines/taxes for being over weight and other socialistic policies. Pretty soon certain Drugs won’t be available. Just wait.

  • FlybyKnight

    When AIDS carriers don’t voluntarily quarantine themselves, they endanger us all.

    As do the carriers of every other communicable disease.

    The point, robert, is that even if AIDS carriers quarantined themselves tomorrow, it’s no longer exclusively a “gay” disease.

    So, the question I pose to both you and Zig: do you support sending ALL carriers of AIDS to “their own Devil’s Island,” or just the gay ones?

  • Bat One

    … if rich old people desire it, they can get full body scans daily if they want to pay for it themselves. As for giving trendy treatment to the very old and sick- it’s just not worth it. We all gotta die sometime.

    A brazenly succinct explanation of the Left’s approach to “health-care” for the elderly, and a perfectly rational reason to ignore the pleas for national-ized health-care for us all. Already the rationing of health-care is being justified. Perhaps if we cut off those whose own behavior has made them ill… smokers… alcoholics… AIDS “victims.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    Fact: Homosexuals introduced AIDs/HIV into the United States

    Fact: Homosexuals spread their infections into the Heterosexual Greater Society by means of Bi-sexuality, and sharing needles with other drug users, prison rape and donating infected blood and organs.

    Fact: Homosexuals are far more promiscuous than Heterosexuals, having an average of 300 sex partners a year and some having upwards of 1,000 sex partners a year. Moreover, the nature of these meetings are often anonymous, in bathhouses, parks and public restrooms.

    Fact: receptive anal sex and the ingestion of human feces are spreaders of AIDs and other serious diseases.

    Fact: Per capita, homosexuals are far more prone than heterosexuals to molest children on the order of a magnitude.

    Instead of asking questions about isolating the AIDs infected how about answering us as to how this sort of track record deserves acknowledgment as to safe or even normal sex practices?

  • robert108

    A forced quarantine has been advocated as a solution to the spread of AIDS…

    False! Here are my words, repeated for the learning disabled:

    In fact, if the “gay community” had responded in a responsible way to the AIDs contagion, by establishing and funding quarantine centers for their members with AIDS, this disease would be gone in a generation or two.

    &heellip;

    robert108 on May 20, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Since the homo community didn’t do the right thing, which they could have chosen to do, then it’s up to the normal people to defend themselves from this threat.

    Try to keep up, Fly. You keep trying to distract, rather than dealing with the facts at hand.

    What’s your suggestion for stopping AIDS?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    I’m pretty sure the two pro-Homo avatars are sockpuppets for some of the trolls that would normally get screened out by Suite’s excellent software, but I’ll indulge them with an answer or two, then I have to get back to work.

    The little kid having to take blood infusions or the person on the operating table that got nailed by AIDS-tainted blood (such as via the Clinton blood scandal) aren’t having the average of 300 anonymous deviant sex partner per year, many by way of trolling public restrooms and parks. They don’t pull man-trains or felch, rim or fist each other.

    They just got infected by a disease which was introduced into the United States by the homosexual patient zero.

    Crawl back under your rock, deviant.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    Leftspeak Translator

    (Leftspeak) bigot = (Reality) One who tells the truth

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    How much are we spending on AIDS? a 100% preventable disease that cost US all HUGE because a small minority are irresponsible perverts.

    Is that fair?

    No it’s not fair. And that cost is not trumpeted from the rooftops, nor even discussed in polite company.

    It’s $600,000.00 a pop for each diseased, pole-smoking, turd-pushing Gayblade, most of that cost pushed onto the hospitals, other paying patients, other paying insurance customers and the US taxpayer.

    It would be fair, reasonable and a common-sense thing to isolate the AIDS/HIV infected on their own Devil’s Island and let them all have at it until the final, terminal death-rattle.

    It would make sense for several reasons:

    1) they couldn’t continue to spread their infection to the rest of society the way they are doing now, to include contaminating the blood and organ donor supply;

    2) they wouldn’t cost the taxpayer nearly so much, nor the hospitals, nor the other paying insurance customers;

    3) the huge amount of medical research and treatment funds would be freed up to treat illnesses which afflict a much greater proportion of the population and give the taxpayer a much greater bang for the buck.

    4) it would encourage the end of unprotected buttsex. And for those that still ignored the well-known risks, they would bear the full brunt of their stupidity, rather than visiting the costs onto everyone else.

  • bill-tb

    RATION and KILL, socialized medicine. The eugenics final solution.

    Abortion cheapens life, and granny is too costly to live anymore.

  • brain trust

    And we are looking at turning our whole healthcare industry to basically the same organization. Great, we can have some bureacrat deciding what treatment is economically feasible or not and I’m sure some of that decision could be based on a persons political beliefs.

    Liberals Golden Rule – We must all suffer equally!

  • Daffy

    Only from homos, directly or indirectly, through dirty needles, bisexuality or tainted blood.

    Gay people are the only people who use drugs too? You are on a roll.

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus Last Best Hope

    How much are we spending on AIDS? a 100% preventable disease that cost US all HUGE because a small minority are irresponsible perverts.

    Is that fair?

  • FlybyKnight

    It would be fair, reasonable and a common-sense thing to isolate the AIDS/HIV infected on their own Devil’s Island and let them all have at it until the final, terminal death-rattle.

    Wow, Zig. Do you feel the same way about people with malaria? Or cancer? How about influenza?

    You are aware that straight people can get HIV/AIDS too, right? Or did you lose that little detail in all that bigotry?

  • pak

    “covered by a growing number of private insurers including Cigna and UnitedHealthcare”.

    Obviously not covered by all insurers. Your health care is limited even with great insurance. If the insurer deems it experimental or not nescessary you don’t get the treatment, drug, procedure. They time you spend in the hospital. It has to be cost effective.

  • robert108

    So, in order to fully contain it, we are going to have to quarantine everyone with the disease.

    As has already been explained to you, not everyone. However, identifying them in the public database, something the homo community has resisted vigorously, would be a good idea even for those who aren’t doing the behavior that spreads AIDS. This would ensure that infected people don’t give blood, for instance. It’s about being sensible, not PC.

    At the present time, the question of “who started it” is not relevant at all.

    Faulty logic. If you don’t know the cause, how can you find a cure?

    But, you won’t tell me if you’re comfortable with that because you’d rather use AIDS as an excuse to throw out gay slurs and post pictures of men licking each other’s asses. We’re not talking about a solution to AIDS, we’re talking about gay bashing.

    More false accusations for the purpose of distraction.
    I thought this was going to be about your suggestions for eliminating AIDS, not bashing those who disagree with you.

    we’re talking about healthcare.

    No, you’re talking about healthcare; we care about the entire population of the US, which is in danger due to lies and propaganda to distract from the truth about AIDS.

    But you didn’t really mean isolating ALL of the AIDS infected, did you? Just those dirty homos.

    False. You’re just making that up to justify your distraction by hateful namecalling, instead of detailing your solution to the problem.
    Your entire diatribe has been to justify your bashing of anyone who tells the truth about AIDS and what to do about it.

    You also mistakenly conflate quarantine with blame, and can’t seem to get off that blame train.
    Obviously, everyone who might transmit AIDS unknowingly should be informed of their infection. Those who demonstrate that, even after they are informed, continue to do the AIDS-spreading behavior, should be quarantined. That’s just basic science.

    Your ignorance is what makes you a bigot, Fly.
    Your real agenda is to smear everyone who tells the inconvenient truths about AIDS, and who refutes the propaganda dispensed by the PC lefties and the homo community.

  • robert108

    What MZ actually wrote:

    It would be fair…

    He didn’t advocate it, so your general statement is false for both of us. Sooner or later, Fly, you will have to stop trying to distract with angry smear, and make a valid argument for your position, whatever that might be. So far, all you have done is to snipe at those who have taken a position, without taking one yourself. That’s fundamentally dishonest.

  • FlybyKnight

    diseased, pole-smoking, turd-pushing Gayblade

    And I’m the “ignorant hater”? I’m not the one throwing slurs around.

    It’s easy to demonize “them” isn’t it?

  • robert108

    Fat causes the most problems.

    Wrong. Tobacco and alcohol cause the most health problems.

    Medicare is far better than the alternative.

    Not if the alternative is free enterprise with no govt interference with supply, and price determined by market forces, not greedy govt bureaucracy.

    Failure to keep the Dem social engineers out of the market, and massive wasteful Dem social spending is the cause of all our present problems. It all started with FDR. We are still being ripped off by some of his programs.

  • pak

    concept has been done with certain diseases but what would be the mechanics of instituting such a policy. Sex offenders have to go through the courts before they are labelled. Someone having irresponsible sex, behavior is something else. Do you round up everyone with a lisp. Probably drive them back into the closet. You have to identify all aids carriers, round them up and quarantine. Gov’t would still be paying for the upkeep.
    Homosexuals have been around for thousands of years and nothing has been done to “correct” their behavior?
    I am not sure how they are endangering us all unless we are having irresponsible unprotected sex with multiple partners.
    I believe the blood supply is screened.
    If gay marriage would be made legal wouldn’t there be less
    multiple partners. Most hetersexual marrieds are monogamous. Might that also pertain to gay partners. Just some questions.

  • FlybyKnight

    despite your attempt to distract with your untrue “Devil’s Island” claim

    It would be fair, reasonable and a common-sense thing to isolate the AIDS/HIV infected on their own Devil’s Island
    Move_Zig on May 19, 2009 at 03:22 pm

  • robert108

    So AIDS is voluntary, except when it’s not. Gotcha.

    Not what I said, but you obviously have no affirmative argument, so you try to twist and spin. Pathetic, little sockpuppet.

  • robert108

    So is it your contention that sexually promiscuous straight people are incapable of spreading AIDS to other straight people who are not infected? Where does the “homo” enter into that equation?

    How can one uninfected person spread the disease to another uninfected person, Fly? The only way for a normal person to become infected with AIDS is unknowingly through indirect contact with an infected person, and that infection always has to come from the homo community, ultimately. Again, do you understand what it means that the homo community is the reservoir of AIDS?
    I repeat, if the homo community had acted responsibly as soon as AIDS and its method of transmission was discovered, the spread would be far less than it is today, and we would be well on our way to being free of the disease, and that includes the homo community, as well.
    Instead, they want into denial, spewing propaganda, which included the claim that everyone telling the truth about homos spreading AIDS is a “bigot”, just like you are trying to do here, and we have all suffered as a result of that denial and propaganda.

  • robert108

    Ok. You’ve finally answered my question. Now we know your position.

    I have answered it multiple times, but you couldn’t figure it out, so I dumbed it down for you. We still don’t know your position; all you have done is to snipe at those who have taken a stand on the matter.

    I’m not wholly comfortable with forced quarantine…

    Your comfort is not the issue here; the safety of the citizens of this country is the issue. Since I have already dealt with the matter of voluntary quarantine(that was the part about personal responsibility, btw), the only other form of quarantine is the involuntary quarantining of those who continue to act irresponsibly, thus endangering us all.

    So, I would think if a forced quarantine was going to be enacted, we’d need stringent standards to ensure that each individual subject to it was actually engaging in risky behavior before quarantining them.

    I thought that was obvious, but no to you, I guess. That’s what laws are for. Laws are for the irresponsible people, not the responsible ones. The first step(I say again) is identifying those who are infected. The rest follows from that. The leftie establishment has fought that viciously from the beginning, placing the emotional needs of the infected above the needs of the rest of society.
    I just think that’s wrong.
    My suggestion that the homo community lead this process is to avoid the exaggerations like yours, and also to put those in charge who might be more sympathetic to the feelings of the infected, rather than forcing that task on the general population.
    I’m sure if the homo community had done that from the beginning, their public image would be much better, despite their public behavior in some instances.

    And who am I bigoted against?

    As I have already explained several times already, you seem to be bigoted against anyone who doesn’t agree with your preconceptions on this subject. You have continually misstated our positions and have made bigoted judgements before receiving all the facts. Even when things have been clearly stated, you continued to need to have the same things explained to you over and over again.
    Your prejudices are obvious to me.

    Hopefully, the facts of the matter will clear things up for you.
    You are bigoted against anyone who speaks the truth about AIDS, and who doesn’t parrot the PC memes about homosexuality.

  • robert108

    No argument, eh, little sockpuppet? If you have a good argument for your position on the issue(whatever that is, since you have yet to make one), please present it. Maybe ignorant sniping is all you have.

  • welder4

    Obama can’t wait for his first fatality of a person that can’t breathe, he wants them to stay away from the hospital and die. Sometimes a breathing treatment does very little to help in times of not being able to breathe ,I wonder if one of his children heaven forbid had a breathing problem if he would be all over the hospital for refusing to treat them if they needed it . Not being able to breathe is a dangerous situation for any one and if you have not been there and done that don’t say it is not fatal , you can die in as little as three minutes .Of course we could resort to them taking a Breathalyzer test to see if they were drunk first. Colonoscopy will save lives and why pay for two test when one will do it fine . Next would be pancreatitus and the hospital can tell them how to treat it at home . wow ! we are headed toward a bad life here soon.

  • FlybyKnight

    Obviously, everyone who might transmit AIDS unknowingly should be informed of their infection. Those who demonstrate that, even after they are informed, continue to do the AIDS-spreading behavior, should be quarantined. That’s just basic science.

    Ok. You’ve finally answered my question. Now we know your position.

    To address that point, I’m not wholly comfortable with forced quarantine, but I also understand that we’re talking about a potentially species-killing virus. So, I would think if a forced quarantine was going to be enacted, we’d need stringent standards to ensure that each individual subject to it was actually engaging in risky behavior before quarantining them.

    Your ignorance is what makes you a bigot, Fly.

    And who am I bigoted against?

  • FlybyKnight

    only those who voluntarily engage in the specific AID-spreading behavior would need to be quarantined.

    So is it your contention that sexually promiscuous straight people are incapable of spreading AIDS to other straight people who are not infected? Where does the “homo” enter into that equation?

    You really couldn’t figure this out, Robert?

  • Daffy

    So first you say this

    It’s completely voluntary, unlike your other examples.

    And then you say this

    Many innocent lives, like Ryan White’s

    Interesting

  • FlybyKnight

    And, Zig, even if we stipulate that the gay community is where AIDS started, clearly it’s not confined there any longer. So, do you support send straight and/or minor AIDS patients to “Devil’s Island” as well, or just gay ones?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    Wow, Zig. Do you feel the same way about people with malaria? Or cancer? How about influenza?

    Those folks don’t generally do something to get themselves infected. Homosexuals on the other hand, due to what it is they do, stand a 50 to 70 percent chance at contracting HIV and thereafter AIDS.

    Those diseases, unlike those other conditions you’ve listed, are entirely foreseeable and entirely avoidable. So Homosexuals are different. It is their behavior, their irresponsibility to themselves and others and the deadly contagiousness of their disease that makes them different.

    That’s even before we discuss the very real huge dollar costs they are shifting onto the other 98 percent of heterosexual society.

    So you can whine and bleat and throw your Nancy-boy hissy fit at me for pointing out the facts, but those facts don’t change, you pole-smoking cretin.

  • FlybyKnight

    Robert,

    I’m stipulating that the AIDS outbreak in this country started in the “gay community.” There’s no need to argue that point. I’m asking a simple question.

    A forced quarantine has been advocated as a solution to the spread of AIDS, therefore eliminating this disease as a drag on our healthcare entitlement systems (whatever form they may take). Do you support this policy of forced quarantine? If so, do you favor quarantining ALL people with AIDS (including straight people and children) or just gay men?

    It’s really a basic question that you have so far refused to answer.

  • welder4

    If medicare is broke and Obama wants to expand that is that not sort, of well , dumb? it is a thing that most managers look at is cost effective and they will not go the same route if that route takes money out of the business and does not provide some sort of return so why in the world would any one in their right mind want to increase the size of medicare when it is going broke. We have such wonderful intelligent people running the show now we can all just sit back and relax . this is sort of like a child placing their hand into a fire and getting burnt so he /she does not believe what just happened so they place their hand into the fire again. and again and again, sort of like our government now.

  • Daffy

    I think robert108 must be satirical. No one is that dumb.

  • robert108

    Gay people are the only people who use drugs too?

    Didn’t say that, either. You are on a twisting and spinning roll, little sockpuppet.

    Homos who voluntarily choose to do the behavior that spreads AIDS are the vector of this disease. The other diseases mentioned don’t come from voluntary human vectors. For instance, since you seem to be ignorant about this, malaria is spread by a certain species of mosquito.
    Again, if we quarantine all the AIDS people, so that they can just contact themselves, the disease will be gone in a generation or two. Of course, they wouldn’t be able to be out there recruiting…

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 Dino2

    At least the government system won’t be paying CEO’s billions on compensation and bonuses to boot, sucking up all the money they could be paying out in health care.

    Amen.

    And for those who think AIDS is our most expensive health problem:

    America’s Most Expensive Medical Conditions

    Unsurprisingly, heart conditions took the number one spot, costing an estimated $76 billion to treat, $48 billion of which was due to inpatient hospital stays. Other chronic conditions that made the top 10 include cancer, which had a $69 billion price tag, diabetes, at $34 billion, and osteoarthritis, also at $34 billion.

    All of those are linked to being overweight or obese. That’s not to say that there are not some fat gay men with AIDS and heart disease. But I think you get my point.

    Another link:

    Which Medical Conditions Account For The Rise In Health Care Spending?

    We find that a small number of conditions account for most of the growth in health care spending–the top five medical conditions accounted for 31 percent. For four of the conditions, a rise in treated prevalence, rather than rising treatment costs per case or population growth, accounted for most of the spending growth.

    Between 43 and 61 percent of the total nominal change in spending between 1987 and 2000 is attributable to the fifteen most costly conditions. Our “best guess” estimate, adjusted for double-counting, approximates the share to be 56 percent. Most of this change is concentrated in the five most expensive conditions: heart disease, mental disorders, pulmonary disorders, cancer, and trauma, which account for approximately 31 percent of the overall change in spending between 1987 and 2000.

    The data presented in Exhibit 2 reveal a substantial rise in treated prevalence in eight of the fifteen conditions experiencing the largest rise in spending. For instance, treatment of mental disorders nearly doubled, and cases involving a pulmonary disorder, such as asthma and upper and lower respiratory diseases, increased 50 percent. There also was a substantial rise in the treated prevalence of hypertension and diabetes (Exhibit 2).

    Anybody see AIDS in there?

  • FlybyKnight

    calling someone’s valid opinion “bigotry” instead of making a valid argument

    It’s not the “people should avoid spreading disease” part of the argument that makes it bigotry. Generally, I agree.

    What makes it bigotry is

    diseased, pole-smoking, turd-pushing Gayblade

    you pole-smoking cretin

    And the fact that the only people we’re talking about quarantining so they won’t spread disease are gays.

    Clearly, Zig is a bigot in this instance. Answer the question in my previous comment and we’ll decide if you are, too.

  • robert108

    As do the carriers of every other communicable disease.

    The point, robert, is that even if AIDS carriers quarantined themselves tomorrow, it’s no longer exclusively a “gay” disease.

    Again, you seem incapable of even simple logic. The quarantine is for those whose behavior spreads AIDS. Since AIDS is not spread through casual contact, nor through air, water or food, only those who voluntarily engage in the specific AID-spreading behavior would need to be quarantined.
    You really couldn’t figure this out, Fly?

  • FlybyKnight

    Ok, Robert and Zig, I’m going to lay out my position here as concisely as possible:

    If it is your goal to stop the spread of AIDS and therefore reduce its burden on the US healthcare system, as is the topic of this thread, than a quarantine (as proposed by Zig) is one way to accomplish that goal. However, if we are going to debate the merits of that solution, we need to know exactly what we’re talking about.

    Even if the gay community was responsible for the outbreak of AIDS in America, any thinking person can see that the disease is no longer confined to the gay community. So, in order to fully contain it, we are going to have to quarantine everyone with the disease. This includes straight people (because they have promiscuous sex and use IV drugs, too, and can therefore spread the disease to other straight people who do these things) and children (because they can grow up to have sex and use IV drugs). I’m simply wondering if you’re comfortable with including those people in the quarantine, because they can also spread the disease.

    At the present time, the question of “who started it” is not relevant at all. If your solution is going to work, you’re going to have to quarantine the people who have and can spread AIDS now, not the people who had and could spread AIDS in 1980.

    But, you won’t tell me if you’re comfortable with that because you’d rather use AIDS as an excuse to throw out gay slurs and post pictures of men licking each other’s asses. We’re not talking about a solution to AIDS, we’re talking about gay bashing.

    Instead of asking questions about isolating the AIDs infected how about answering us as to how this sort of track record deserves acknowledgment as to safe or even normal sex practices?

    I’m asking questions about isolating the AIDS infected because that’s the solution you proposed. I don’t care about gay sex practices and whether or not they’re normal – we’re talking about healthcare.

    But you didn’t really mean isolating ALL of the AIDS infected, did you? Just those dirty homos.

    And that’s what makes you a bigot. You’re proposing a solution to AIDS to disguise your “put the homos on an island” mentality, and you’re not honest enough to admit it.

  • Dino2

    More Potato fascination with me!

    Without Medicare many people wouldn’t have even basic health care much less expensive state-of-the-art diagnostics. The premiums would outstrip their incomes.

    That said, if rich old people desire it, they can get full body scans daily if they want to pay for it themselves. As for giving trendy treatment to the very old and sick- it’s just not worth it. We all gotta die sometime.

  • robert108

    A system of health care where you can only get the health care you can afford to pay for is far from optimal…

    Not necessarily, Rob. Since the late 18th Century, the AMA has had monopoly power over the supply of doctors and nurses, given to them by the federal govt. A true market system would allow the supply of medical care to expand to meet the demand, resulting in lower prices for the consumer. In addition, the prices of all procedures under the present system are drastically inflated by the high overhead costs imposed by govt involvement in every stage of the process.
    Some standards would obviously be needed, but not supply restrictions. That’s the price inflator.

  • pparets

    As for giving trendy treatment to the very old and sick- it’s just not worth it. We all gotta die sometime.

    Principle #1 in socialized, national health care.

  • robert108

    Interesting

    What is interesting is your attempt to cherry-pick to deceive. Ryan White was the victim of a tainted blood supply; he didn’t choose to get AIDS by engaging in homo behavior.
    As I already pointed out, those other diseases aren’t voluntary, unlike AIDS. When AIDS carriers don’t voluntarily quarantine themselves, they endanger us all. Irresponsible behavior continues…

    Whose little sockpuppet are you, “Daffy”?

  • Daffy

    At least the government system won’t be paying CEO’s billions on compensation and bonuses to boot, sucking up all the money they could be paying out in health care.

    Yup.

    And let’s stop pretending the health care industry is good right now. I’m not saying Obama’s way is perfect, but the way it is now is awful.

  • Buzz

    Their rational sound perfectly logical to me.

    but it’s better than allowing some bureaucrat to make arbitrary decisions about the care you receive based on their bottom line and not your health.

    And that is not how your health insurance company works now? You know it is but won’t admit it. Someone makes a decision whether to pay for a procedure every time you get something done. At least the government system won’t be paying CEO’s billions on compensation and bonuses to boot, sucking up all the money they could be paying out in health care.
    You all are all about “if you can’t afford it you don’t deserve it” anyway, so what do you care how the nationalized system will work? If that is all you can get it will be better than nothing, right?

  • Dino2

    Batty, old people and procreators cost the very most.

    Fat causes the most problems.

    We spend an average of over $100K in the last 6 months of a person’s life. Not smart.

    Medicare is far better than the alternative. If republicans hadn’t held control for much of the last few decades and resisted so strenuously efforts to address rising health care costs, we wouldn’t be dealing with these crises in the midst of a severe recession (also caused by republicans and conservative policies).

    You really cannot extricate conservatism from the problems we face in so many areas. Blind faith in the “market” so cherished by republicans has led to failure time and again.

    The overriding influence over policy in the last 30 years has been republican/conservative. It FAILED.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    You really cannot extricate conservatism from the problems we face in so many areas. Blind faith in the “market” so cherished by republicans has led to failure time and again.

    Right. The ever expanding government control and regulation of medicine is “conservative free market principles…Snort.

    The overriding influence over policy in the last 30 years has been republican/conservative. It FAILED.

    Just keep repeating the same lie over and over. Doesn’t matter if people corret you. Just keep chugging on!

  • robert108

    And, Zig, even if we stipulate that the gay community is where AIDS started, clearly it’s not confined there any longer.

    Thus the need for quarantine, dude! Since you choose to justify your ignoring the substance of the argument by trying to label it “bigotry”(when it’s just free speech to express your personal opinion of a particular set of behaviors), you are simply trying to distract from the truth.
    Your intention to label me in the same way is just another illustration of your lack of a valid argument.

    BTW, it’s a fact that homos vectored AIDS into this country in 1982, and the identity of “Patient Zero” is known, so you can stop trying to spin that one, as well. More evidence is that when SF closed the homo bathhouses, the AIDS infection rate dropped considerably, and when political pressure was used to reopen them, the AIDS infection rate went right back up, is proof of the link between male homosexual behavior and the spread of AIDS.
    You are in denial, Fly.
    I suggest you stop trying to smear everybody who doesn’t buy into your illusion, and get on the side of truth.

  • FlybyKnight

    Have the courage to answer my question, Zig. Are we sending the straight people with AIDS to “Devil’s Island,” too? What about kids who have it?

  • robert108

    Wow, Zig. Do you feel the same way about people with malaria? Or cancer? How about influenza? Those aren’t diseases of personal behavior, AIDS is. It’s completely voluntary, unlike your other examples. Invalid comparison.

    You are aware that straight people can get HIV/AIDS too, right? Only from homos, directly or indirectly, through dirty needles, bisexuality or tainted blood. Or did you lose that little detail in all that bigotry? It’s not “bigotry” to tell the truth; just inconvenient for ignorant haters like you.

    In fact, if the “gay community” had responded in a responsible way to the AIDs contagion, by establishing and funding quarantine centers for their members with AIDS, this disease would be gone in a generation or two. Many innocent lives, like Ryan White’s, would have been saved.
    Instead, they abdicated their responsibility for their behavior, and exposed all Americans to their contagion. Shame on them!

  • robert108

    Are we sending the straight people with AIDS to “Devil’s Island,” too? What about kids who have it?

    We want to quarantine those(despite your attempt to distract with your untrue “Devil’s Island” claim) who engage in the behavior that spreads AIDS, so normal people and normal children don’t need to be quarantined. You really couldn’t figure that out, Fly?

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

    Note: the script isn’t mine, I just figured out the mod method and put it right out there blatantly instead of leaving it to the side.

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

    Buzz:

    If that is all you can get it will be better than nothing, right?

    Even if that were true, that would make you in favor of giving up on improving the situation.

    So you’re a quitter then. Ready to give up on making things better and just settle for someone else deciding if you live or die. Not even willing to live with the illusion. You just want to give up and let it all be over with. Get down to the naked mercilessness. Be a victim.

    Is that it?

    I thought you union guys were all go no quit.

    Evidently at least one isn’t. That would be you Buzz. Ready to give in and let your political masters take all the power and be just a pawn in the end.

    That’s all you are to them Buzz. You’re living in a fool’s paradise if you think Obama and the rest give a flying rat’s ass about you. They don’t. You’re a means to an end.

    Do you really want to go out never having been anything but their stooge?

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

    Cue Dino jonesing to have something stuck up his backside in 3… 2… 1…

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

    Dino:

    We all gotta die sometime.

    I love self prophecy.

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