The point I meant to make was that Etheopia can throw them out with superior firepower, but they can’t keep them out unless they are prepared to stay forever and fight a guerilla war.

Seems like we would all remember that we are first and most importantly, Americans, in this together. Political parties don’t matter when our nation is threatened. We may disagree on tactics, but surely we all want to protect our families.

Tell that to the Dems/lefties/MSM; they are the ones creating division for political purposes.

Saying that the Democrats and MSM are supporting the terroists just because they don’t believe we can win with the present stradegy is not right or fair.I have many reasons for what I said, and simple disagreement isn’t one of them. Whether Bush deceived us deliberably,(which, for the record, I doubt)or was misled by faulty intelligence to get us in this war is no longer relevant. Neither of those is true; the 14 month delay gave Saddam a chance to cover his ass. The man is a patriot, if not a very bright one.Well, since he piloted a jet fighter, which very few can do, he is brighter than most of us. Not only that, but according to Yale, he is brighter than John Kerry, a man revered by the Dems for his intelligence. Why the double standard? It is not only possible for liberals to care deeply for this country and still disagree with its leadership, it is mandatory to do so if you think they are heading in the wrong direction. It is not “mandatory” to undermine US foreign policy, though. The Dems/lefties have done so much more than simply disagree. They have actively undermined this President and the interests of this country for six years, and counting, and all for short term political gain. Shame on them! So lets not call each other traitors just because we
don’t agree on what is best. You are the one who has used the word “traitor”. Why is that?

Margie: First, I believe in strong borders and a strong national defense; and I am not happy about the level of homeland security under Bush as regards the borders.

Second: I do believe in new alternative energy sources and until they come on line, we need to explore for and produce more oil at home.

Next: Like it or not we are in Iraq and we have to deal with NOW! Thus, no matter what we simply cannot afford to lose in Iraq or the price at home to you and your descendents will be worse than your most horrible nightmares, without the terrorists ever getting into America.

I would love to attack France, any excuse is okay with me!

Unbelievable! Some people obviously don’t know where their own best interests lie. Maybe they misunderstood the question? How on earth could anyone want us to lose, as opposed to beliveing that it is a hopeless cause? I’m utterly dumbfounded over this one.

There is no such thing as a strategic withdrawal from Iraq, if we get out short of a clear victory, then we leave in defeat (cut-and-run). Let us be clear there is no choice now except a clear victory, any other course will leave the field to the terrorists.

While we can not say exactly what will happen if we leave the field and hunker down in an American fortress, we can reasonably forsee: 1. The Islamic militants will immediately control Iraq and have a close alliance with Iran and Syria. 2. In a short time the militants to get their way in the world will decrease oil supplies, which means our fuel prices will skyrocket and our economy will suffer greatly, meaning all of us will live a lot less well than we do today. 3. Very soon Islamic militants through their several client states will possess nuclear technology and be able to blackmail the west in submitting to Islam or die. 4. Israel wil be wiped off the world map.

I could go on, but my point is this – We simply cannot afford to leave Iraq short of a clear military victory and leaving a Democrat form of government behind – there is no other option.

Seems like we would all remember that we are first and most importantly, Americans, in this together. Political parties don’t matter when our nation is threatened. We may disagree on tactics, but surely we all want to protect our families.

WE DON’T HAVE TO STAY IN IRAQ

Yes, we do. Our(Clinton’s) cutting and running from Somalia got OBL his inspiration to attack us on 9/11, so what do you think they will come up with after we cut and run from Iraq? Think about it.
What we are doing in Iraq is making it possible for them to have self-determination, which is a stake through the heart of radical Islam. Nothing we are doing to combat terrorism is as important as the effort in Iraq, and they know it, which is why they are fighting so desperately to get us to leave. Figure it out.

Margie: First read my post above! Then consider if we win in Iraq the militants will have suffered a major setback and have reason to fear the U.S. Military should they initiate their crap here at home or elsewhere.

WE DON’T HAVE TO STAY IN IRAQ1 Their leaders have betrayed them for the sake of religion, not us. And staying there till the cows come home will not change the predictions you have made one iota. The only difference is that we could adopt a more practical war strategy if we were not sitting there in handcuffs. And if Israel were ever attacked we would honor our agreement to help protect her, even if it meant invading Syria or Iran. The terrorists ARE going after us elsewhere. That is precisely my point. They are everywhere, not just Iraq. It all comes down to the most effective way of fighting them. This ain’t it! Got to call it a night, but thank you for an interesting discussion. I do understand what you are saying and as little as six months ago, would have agreed. But not recognizing a losing strategy when you see one serves no constructive purpose. Goodnight and Heaven watch over your family and keep them safe.

Robert108: “—especially with the Dems and MSM supporting the
terrorists.”

That isn’t an accusation of treason? No, it isn’t; it’s an accusation of using the terrorist objectives to weaken their political opposition to win an election, and they succeeded. Being able to fly a plane and graduating from Yale with a good grade does not make him a good leader or a good military strategist. That wasn’t what you said; you said he “wasn’t bright”, and I pointed out your error. Are you changing the subject now? Yes you are probably right about wmd’s. Most likely they now reside in Pakistan. Or Syria.

Our choice is not surrender, it is to defend our homeland as best we can, by a stregetic withdrawal and focusing on using those resources to strengthen our defenses at home.

R108,

See what I mean.

Crazy!

I believe that all the credit for this should go to the lies, half-truths and fabrications of the unaccountable MSM; their propaganda efforts for the terrorist cause have gotten results. Now, the Dems want to silence the only balance to the completely unbalanced MSM, by trying to silence talk radio and the blogs. They are already practicing intimidation by even threatening to do it. This is all very sad.

Okay Margie, but is it a good policy to simply ignore the insane and leave them alone, or is it better to kill or lock them up to protect the innocent?

But what you simply cannot get through your head is this: WE ARE ALREADY IN IRAQ - we have to deal with the situation as we now find it. Leaving Iraq in defeat will only encourage the terrorists to go after us elsewhere, including here at home. Plus, all the brave Iraqi people who went to vote at a great risk to their own lives, because we made it possible for them to determine their own future, will be left at the mercy of these murderous terrorists. Plus, thus encouraged the Islamic terrorists will soon control the entire Middle East and Israel will cease to exist, along with a few million Jews!

Robert, I disagree with the crass motives you attribue to everyone who does not embrace your particular political beliefs. I have done no such thing. I wish you would stick with what I did say, instead of making up your own partisan version. I said they sold out our country for their own political gain, and the last election demonstrates the truth of that. If you consider that to be crass, then listen to yourself. It’s not about disagreement, it’s about their behavior and ethics. There are honorable people all over this nation who don’t. They are not traitors nor are they dazed,unrealistic, or stupid. Once again, you make things up. I never said any of those things. Instead, I believe that they honestly believe they deserve power, and are willing to do anything to get it. They are ruthless. They simply do not see, as I do not, any way to resolve this conflict They don’t want to; it doesn’t serve their purposes. as long as religion plays such a vital part in winning. They actually love Islam; they just hate Christianity. People don’t give up their religious hatreds easily,Sounds like the Dems. not even for the sake of survival. Untill they can subdue their animosities and put government ahead of their religious leaders every sacred command, it is
truly hopeless. Leave them to it, devil take the hindmost. You are a defeatist; I’m not.

Robert108: “—especially with the Dems and MSM supporting the terrorists.”

That isn’t an accusation of treason? Being able to fly a plane and graduating from Yale with a good grade does not make him a good leader or a good military strategist. Yes you are probably right about wmd’s. Most likely they now reside in Pakistan.

Margie,

Perhaps if we took a look at things from a slightly different perspective.

First, you say that a guerilla type war is “The type of war we should be fighting. The only thing that makes sense. Quick response teams that can go anywhere, not a standing army, twidling its thunbs in Iraq…”

But I would argue that in an age of suitcase size nuclear or biological weaponry that can cause agonizing death to literally millions of people, we simply can NOT afford the luxury of waiting for an attack before we respond. If we do so, we are already too late. This is war… not Law and Order. Eight years of indifference leading up to 9-11 should have taught us that much.

Second, if it is not “worthwhile” to continue fighting in Iraq, then where would you be willing to do so? Israel? Turkey? Western Europe? How about here in the western hemisphere in South America? How close to American soil and the American population would you be willing to fight this war?

You are right, I don’t get it. The Alamo was a grand gesture, but what did it acomplish? We can send a million troops to Iraq, put a foot on the national neck, but we would have to stay there forever to keep them down. No, I don’t think that reason plays a big part in terrorist thinking. I would be much relieved if, like the school bully, if you sock him in the nose, he finds someone else to pick on, giving them a decisive defeat, which we already have, would act as a deterent. It won’t. They want to rule the world. It is like trying to deal with the insane.