What has he been "completely proven right" about?

Excerpts from a speech at Drake University, February 17, 2003: http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean021703sp.html

"To this day, the President has not made a case that war against Iraq, now, is necessary to defend American territory, our citizens, our allies, or our essential interests. The Administration has not explained how a lasting peace, and lasting security, will be achieved in Iraq once Saddam Hussein is toppled."

"Before going to war with Iraq, we need to explore fully and carefully what else might work. President Bush says we don’t need more inspections, because we already have enough information to justify going to war. My question is, why not use our information to help the UN disarm Iraq without war? "

"Secretary Powell’s recent presentation at the UN showed the extent to which we have Iraq under an audio and visual microscope. Given that, I was impressed not by the vastness of evidence presented by the Secretary, but rather by its sketchiness. He said there would be no smoking gun, and there was none."

"And if we believe terrorists – especially if they are terrorists linked to al Qaeda – have set up a poison and explosives training center in Northern Iraq, outside Saddam Hussein’s control, why haven’t we verified that information and destroyed that camp? "

"The CIA and Defense Department have indicated that, by far, the most likely scenario for Saddam using chemical or biological weapons – or sponsoring a terrorist attack – would be precisely if we invaded Iraq, because then he would have nothing to lose. Neither President Bush in the State of the Union nor Secretary Powell at the UN mentioned that intelligence assessment. And it is just one of many issues the President has not yet adequately addressed. "

"Iraq is a divided country, with Sunni, Shia and Kurdish factions that share both bitter rivalries and access to large quantities of arms. Iran and Turkey each have interests in Iraq they will be tempted to protect with or without our approval. And, perhaps most importantly, there is a very real danger that war in Iraq will fuel the fires of international terror.

Now, I am not among those who say that America should never use its armed forces unilaterally. In some circumstances, we have no choice. In Iraq, I would be prepared to go ahead without further Security Council backing if it were clear the threat posed to us by Saddam Hussein was imminent, and could neither be contained nor deterred.

However, that case has not been made, and I believe we should continue the hard work of diplomacy and inspection.

We should work with the Security Council to push the UN inspection process as hard as possible, as fast as possible, and with as much help as possible from our intelligence assets. We should continue as long as there is progress toward disclosure and disarmament and the inspectors tell us credibly that there is promising work to be done. We should have the inspectors report back every 30 or 60 days, so that we can assess whether to continue on course or take tougher action.

If particular weapons of mass destruction are discovered, by the inspectors or otherwise, they must be destroyed immediately, by the inspectors or by the Iraqi government. If they are not, their destruction should be accomplished by military action under the UN. I believe that every member of the Security Council would support such an approach.

Saddam Hussein must not have weapons of mass destruction. But particular weapons can be destroyed without an all-out war to impose a change of regimes. That is a much larger step, for which the case has not yet been made.

We must remember, though, that Iraq is not the greatest danger we face today. Consider, to begin with, North Korea. "

The Administration says it is wrong to draw a parallel between the situations in Iraq and North Korea, because those situations are quite different. I agree.

Iraq has let UN inspectors back in. North Korea has kicked them out. Saddam Hussein does not have a clear path to acquiring nuclear weapons. North Korea may already have them – and is on a clear path to acquiring more.

Saddam Hussein has missiles that can go 40 miles farther than the 90-mile range allowed by the UN. North Korea has tested a three-stage intercontinental ballistic missile that might be able to reach California, Oregon, and Washington.

I marvel at the discipline of this Administration in sticking to its message -that Saddam is the greatest danger – regardless of world developments. "

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean021703sp.html

 

Dean’s actually. How can you argue with a guy that has been so completely proven right regarding the Iraq fiasco?

What has he been "completely proven right" about?

Whistler, oh where oh where to begin:  how about Nixon, Agnew, Haldeman, Erlichman, Liddy, Mitchell, Magruder, Maurice Stans, Ollie North, John Pointdexter.  So many republicans so little time.

Sounds like you’re the one in denial about the dirty Democrats.

Ho-ho! The "dirty" democrats. Name one "dirty Democrat" and I’ll raise you five disgustingly corrupt Republican criminals.

Speaking of losers, Mcair, what political dead horse are you riding?  I mean whose ass are you kissing?  Kennedys?  Kerrys?  Hillarys?

Dean’s actually. How can you argue with a guy that has been so completely proven right regarding the Iraq fiasco?

No flip-flopping for this lifelong Democrat and proud liberal.

Hey, Seth. mcairhead is the latest version from the KosKids, it just runs about spewing the usual talking points. puzzlefeet appears to enjoy slinging its runny feces on anyone that stands still long enough. Same old same, you know the deal. So y’all are remodeling, cool. Put some of that moldy money into circulation, babe! I just finished up a kitchen and bathroom job, did the floors in interlocking composit flooring. I’m not to wild about this stuff, it floats, and if you get scratches or chips in it you have to rip half of it out to fix it. Got a trim job coming up, soon as the oak comes in. Had to have it custom milled to match exsisting trim, circa 1882. Gonna be a pain in the ass to matchup cuts. God, how I love remodeling.

Hurricane season comes every year. Ain’t nothing but a thang, baby. People who have never been through it are the ones all upset. We remember when FEMA did not exsist, National Guard and Red Cross were able to handle the task. And yes, I remember Camille. I remember being without electricity for 3-4 months, not just 1. Remember missing 1/2 the school year. We made it up during the second 1/2. My family down there is tired of hearing all this crying ass shit. Don’t like Hurricane season?  Whiners need to tote theyselves back north. And I moved north cause I like winter, so We don’t want to hear no whinning either!  And Carol! I never dump grout down a drain nor in the yard. That is why I get paid very well.

Ma got by with minor damage, my Aunt Joann in Poplarville had it a little worse, shingles pealed off half the roof and all her ceilings were damaged, lost all the trees and shrubs around the house.

 Glad to hear that!

Family down in Bay St Louis and Waveland lost everything, foundations even lifted from stormsurge. Uncle Joseph and his family down in Barataria had heavy damage, though they all rode it out aboard Le Cygne, that is his son Randall’s shrimp boat.

 That sucks, to be sure!

Nobody killed, only a couple of minor injuries.

Excellent!!! 

I’m glad to hear that they got out in time.  I’ve tried to imagine loosing everything.  It made me think of ways to prepare for that event.  Video tapes, copies of important records, out of state bank accounts… 

It sucks to have to think about it, but should it happen, I’ll be glad I did. 

Ma got by with minor damage, my Aunt Joann in Poplarville had it a little worse, shingles pealed off half the roof and all her ceilings were damaged, lost all the trees and shrubs around the house. Family down in Bay St Louis and Waveland lost everything, foundations even lifted from stormsurge. Uncle Joseph and his family down in Barataria had heavy damage, though they all rode it out aboard Le Cygne, that is his son Randall’s shrimp boat. Nobody killed, only a couple of minor injuries. Could have been alot worse. I am supposed to go back down end of this month, begining of next to help reinter 2 cemetaries, none were new burials, still not real fun.

2H9,

Yeah, we had a guy we know install the floors.  Manufactured wood.  It’s nice stuff, but WOW does it dent and scratch easy.  But, at least with this stuff, there’s a good 1/4 inch of wood that make up the top.  

I completely gutted one room that had paneling and a raised floor.  We use the room for an office and it had WAY too little power.  I ran new power lines, Cat5, installed sheetrock and such…   Sheetrock SUCKS!  but it looks pretty good now.   

 I haven’t paid a lot of attention…  how’d your Mom’s place pull through the storm?

Thanks for the update on the new folks!   

Thanks Carol!  You too! It’s nice once it’s all done, though, right?

I’ve had my house torn up since August. It’s nice having some semblance of order!

This is why I have been a registered Independant all my life. Having heard about Duke Cunningham’s business dealings in the ’70s and ’80s I would never, and I mean not F***ing ever, have voted for him. And yes, there are dirty members currently in Congress, on both sides of the aisle. Are they this dirty? We will only find out when they are in front of the judge.

McAir, Are you trying to suggest that Dean making a speech at a University PROVES that Dean was right?  LOL!

How’s that for Circular-recursive-referential logic. 

"Before going to war with Iraq, we need to explore fully and carefully what else might work. President Bush says we don’t need more inspections, because we already have enough information to justify going to war. My question is, why not use our information to help the UN disarm Iraq without war? "

We tried this for 12 years with no discernable evidence that Saddam was willing to cooperate.  In fact we have AMPLE evidence to point to showing that Saddam was elusive and devious.  We also had a “CEASE FIRE” agreement with Saddam.  Saddam never attempted to comply with it.  We resumed hostilities. 

"Secretary Powell’s recent presentation at the UN showed the extent to which we have Iraq under an audio and visual microscope. Given that, I was impressed not by the vastness of evidence presented by the Secretary, but rather by its sketchiness. He said there would be no smoking gun, and there was none."

Saddam moved the gun. 

"The CIA and Defense Department have indicated that, by far, the most likely scenario for Saddam using chemical or biological weapons – or sponsoring a terrorist attack – would be precisely if we invaded Iraq, because then he would have nothing to lose. Neither President Bush in the State of the Union nor Secretary Powell at the UN mentioned that intelligence assessment. And it is just one of many issues the President has not yet adequately addressed. "

It’s certainly better not to risk any confrontation then, right.  We don’t want anyone getting killed, do we?  Of course, capitulation never got anyone killed, right?

"Iraq is a divided country, with Sunni, Shia and Kurdish factions that share both bitter rivalries and access to large quantities of arms. Iran and Turkey each have interests in Iraq they will be tempted to protect with or without our approval. And, perhaps most importantly, there is a very real danger that war in Iraq will fuel the fires of international terror.

The “fire” of terrorism was already there.  Fundamentalists, like those now running Iran, expect to be rewarded for CAUSING the second coming.  We now have a great place to start whomping on Iran and North Korea…

Now, I am not among those who say that America should never use its armed forces unilaterally. In some circumstances, we have no choice. In Iraq, I would be prepared to go ahead without further Security Council backing if it were clear the threat posed to us by Saddam Hussein was imminent, and could neither be contained nor deterred.

Who acted unilaterally?  Why do people keep trying to suggest that the US did? 

We should work with the Security Council to push the UN inspection process as hard as possible, as fast as possible, and with as much help as possible from our intelligence assets. We should continue as long as there is progress toward disclosure and disarmament and the inspectors tell us credibly that there is promising work to be done. We should have the inspectors report back every 30 or 60 days, so that we can assess whether to continue on course or take tougher action.

After 12 years, when is the line drawn?  When do you “take tougher action” after 12 years of inaction?  Your crew would NEVER have acted.  After 12 years, what’s 10 more?  20 more?  50 more?  He never cooperated in 12 years, he wasn’t going to in 20.

If particular weapons of mass destruction are discovered, by the inspectors or otherwise, they must be destroyed immediately, by the inspectors or by the Iraqi government. If they are not, their destruction should be accomplished by military action under the UN. I believe that every member of the Security Council would support such an approach.

Yup, and that’s what happened.  Saddam never came clean.  We used Military action.  The UN has no military (nor should they).  Who acts for the UN?  Well, UN resolution after resolution said we could act…  we did.

Saddam Hussein must not have weapons of mass destruction. But particular weapons can be destroyed without an all-out war to impose a change of regimes. That is a much larger step, for which the case has not yet been made.

It’s much better to let a Despot destroy as many of his people’s lives as possible, right? 

We must remember, though, that Iraq is not the greatest danger we face today. Consider, to begin with, North Korea. "

We have a much better staging ground for an attack on North Korea now, don’t we?

The Administration says it is wrong to draw a parallel between the situations in Iraq and North Korea, because those situations are quite different. I agree.

Right, we don’t have a Cease Fire agreement with North Korea.  We don’t have 17 UN resolutions and 12 years of having our planes shot at… 

Iraq has let UN inspectors back in. North Korea has kicked them out. Saddam Hussein does not have a clear path to acquiring nuclear weapons. North Korea may already have them – and is on a clear path to acquiring more.

We tried diplomacy with Iraq.  We are in the process of trying it with North Korea.  Are you suggesting that we preemptively attack North Korea without UN resolutions or other diplomatic means?  REALLY?????   Then why do you oppose our actions in Iraq??????

Do you spend much time thinking out your position?  Or are you simply ruled by emotion? 

Not that far west! We are in the middle of a historic restoration. I don’t really like doing them, I am good at them. Therefore people keep seeking me out for them. Thats alot of thems in one paragraph. Oh well. I actually like remodeling, as much as I bitch about it. A happy troop is a bitching troop. When they are silent, that is when you should worry.

Hi Seth.  Where’ve you been?