4th Of July: A Celebration Of Extremism

fireworks

The 4th of July holiday puts me in mind of extremists.

After all, that’s exactly what our founding fathers were. They were extremists because they didn’t believe in the “divine right” of monarchs to rule over the rest of us. They were extremists because they believed in constitutionally-restrained government and individual rights. They were extremists because they thought the people ought to have the right to govern themselves..

They were extremists because they felt the American colonies ought to be a nation independent of Great Britain.

We take things like voting and property rights and due process for granted today, but in 1776 the idea that these were “unalienable rights” the masses were “endowed” with was, in a word, extremism.

Perhaps it is fitting, then, that we celebrate the declaration of those rights at the dawn of our nation with excess culminated by exploding copious amounts of explosives. But I digress.

My purpose in bringing up the extremism of our nation’s founders is to contrast it with the way the term “extremism” is thrown around by politicos today.

As one example, North Dakota Democrats seem to think the problem with their messaging before the past couple of years (and they have a problem, because their party couldn’t be any more marginalized) is that it hasn’t been strident enough. So their watch word has become “extreme.” Everything Republicans do is “extreme.” The abortion laws are “extreme.” The tax cuts are “extreme.”

I’m on the Democrat-NPL email list, and during the legislative session they sent out no fewer than 62 email blasts that contained at least invocation of “extreme.” The practice has continued since the session too.

But North Dakota Democrats aren’t the only ones who have made “extreme” a favorite part of their vocabulary. All we hear about at the national level is about one group of extremists or another doing something extremely extreme.

Then there’s the variations on the theme, such as the “anti-government” jab that some commentators and newspaper editors are fond of. Opposing a tax hike might make you “anti-government” in the eyes of some, but the term “anti-government” makes one think of someone nutty weirdo living in a cabin in the American outback somewhere (or maybe, in another age, an opponent of monarchy).

The motivation behind these pejoratives which get tossed about so freely (“racist” is another one) is a desire to marginalize.

Political debate is hard. Convincing people is difficult. The marketplace of ideas isn’t easily navigated. Easier than debate, easier than working to convince people by bandying your ideas against those of others, is to simply write off your opponents as “extreme.”

Because extremists aren’t people we have to listen to, right? Extremists rant. Extremists make up conspiracy theories. Extremists believe wacky, nonsensical things (like the existence of property rights). Extremists are dangerous, so we write them off. We don’t include them in our political debate.

But we should remember that terms like “extremist” are subjective. What North Dakota Democrats see as “extreme” seems fairly mainstream for most voters in the state who consistently choose Republicans.

King George III might have used the term “extremist” to describe George Washington, Thomas Jefferson or John Adams, but here in America we honor those men as heroes.

We’re all extremists for our point of view, aren’t we? Dicitionary.com defines extreme as “of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average.” But who gets to define what is “ordinary” or “average” for everyone else?

We all see ourselves as being average. That’s why there’s always so much talk about the “middle class” and the “average citizen” in politics. We all respond to those terms, because that’s how we see ourselves.

How about the next time we hear some bomb-thrower describe something or someone as “extreme” we recognize that this person, whatever their political stripes, is deploying a political tactic and nothing else.

So this holiday weekend, hoist a glass of your favorite beverage and shoot off a few bottle rockets (which have to be purchased outside of North Dakota thanks to our legislature) in honor of extremism.

After all, it’s extremism we have to thank for making our country what it is today.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • Roy_Bean

    Very well said. And to make your celebration complete, find a dirt track and hoist that beverage stock car race. It just doesn’t get any better than that.

    • $8194357

      We have the traditional small town parade and feed in the park..
      God Bless, Roy.

    • http://ndgoon.blogspot.com Goon

      sounds like my kind of fun. Or play some golf and eat some chicken wings and drink some beer.

    • sbark

      ……48 of the 56 signers of the Dec of Independence were Clergy…ie extremists..(Trent Loose)…………take a minute to ponder that while lifting a Sam Adams —who in their newest ad left out “endowed by our Creator”………..

  • $8194357

    Happy 4th to one and all American citizens…
    Liberty and Freedom for all….
    Even tho this Scripture applies to Israel.
    The Founders believed it as well !

    Psalm 33:12
    New King James Version
    (NKJV)

    12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord,
    The people He has chosen as His own inheritance.

    • borborygmi45

      Liberty and Freedom for all…….
      unless you were a woman or negro, or Indian or slave or……..but other then that

      • jl

        Still living in the past, I see.

        • borborygmi45

          Just a rebuttal to those who ‘live in the past’ and wish to invoke a Bible based constitution and the Founders as a base for their argument…It is still a great Constitution after Amendments to bring it up to date with social norms. It shows the wisdom of the Founding Fathers to put a process in for Amending the Constitution.
          How many Libertarians or Conservatives wish that women couldn’t vote, negros still counted as 3/5ths of a human being and the institution of slavery still existed?

          • PK

            Probably no more than Democrats, since they started the KKK and got the first gun laws restricting black people from owning firearms and suppressed blacks and even white Republicans from voting. The Democratic Planned Parenthood has most of the abortion clinics in the inner city, which happens to be predominately black. All your accusations of Republicans being woman hating, slave wanting racists are ridiculous, when you’re on the side of the real racists in this country.

          • $8194357

            Shssss..
            Don’t challenge the liberal ideologue…
            Its mind is made up and its mad at God and country….

          • borborygmi45

            Well since I didn’t put this in terms of conservative vs liberal thanks for the history lesson. If there are any KKK around now, I wander if they voted for Obama or Mcain, Obama or Mitt? Perhaps you are just feeling guilty as I didn’t mention Republicans in my answer. I brought in the founders and the Bible. Could you please show me where Republican was mentioned.

            “It is still a great Constitution after Amendments to bring it up to date with social norms. It shows the wisdom of the Founding Fathers to put a process in for Amending the Constitution. ” ….or perhaps you don’t agree with that.

            “How many Libertarians or Conservatives wish that women couldn’t vote, negros still counted as 3/5ths of a human being and the institution of slavery still existed” This was question not a statement. A % would be fine, as an opinion.

          • PK

            Seriously? You always make comments about how conservatives, synonymously called Republicans or the right, don’t want rights for certain groups because they don’t want change. I’ve read much of your misrepresentations of normal people and staunch defense of most leftist ideologies. The left are experts on using legitimate civil rights issues as a way of getting the American people to think they’re super good people, so they buy into the entire Democratic platform of domestication and micromanagement of our lives for our own good. I was simply answering your question, showing some leftist hypocrisy on how they don’t have their hands clean either, but use civil injustices as a moral crown to fool the People. You phrased the question as though no Democrat would want those things, only “Libertarians or Conservatives”. And the fact that there isn’t slavery and woman can vote probably shows that most conservatives think it’s right.

          • $8194357

            Matthew 24:30-35
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,
            and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
            and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven
            with power and great glory.

            31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
            and they will gather together His elect from the four winds,
            from one end of heaven to the other.

            The Parable of the Fig Tree

            32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree:
            When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves,
            you know that summer is near.

            33 So you also, when you see all these things,
            know that it is near—at the doors!

            34 Assuredly, I say to you,
            this generation will by no means pass away
            till all these things take place.

            35 Heaven and earth will pass away,
            but My words will by no means pass away.
            End quote

            The Founders gave us a Bible based rule of Law form of Liberty
            and Equality Constitution, gurgle…

            You don’t deal with that, any better than you deal with the Almighty,
            and what “you think” He should have done…

            In other words?
            A know it all…know nothing….Liberal ideologue…

          • borborygmi45

            Yet they still allowed slavery and women didn’t have the same rights….Oh I Get it Now…..That is exactly the way it was in the Bible. Silly me I couldn’t see the forest for the Trees. As I stated above thank God that the Founders had the foresight to put an Amendment process knowing there would be social/progressive change and the Norms of thier society would change also.

          • $8194357

            And we would be going global with the international progressive communist elitist oligarchy new world order,
            with UN central planning soviet global governance, huh…

            They didn’t see that one coming when the Constitution was usurped
            for oligarchy control of DC in 1913, either….
            Progress?

            Or communist global progressivism?
            You are still blind as a leftist liberal bat…..

          • Neiman

            The charge of racism against conservatives is a damn lie. There are regrettably racists everywhere in the political world; but it was the GOP that with Johnson passed the great Civil Rights legislation with opposition from southern Democrats, without the GOP that legislation would never have seen the light of day. It was a Republican President that emancipated people of color, it was conservative Christians in Britain and America that led the fight to end slavery and they did so with their wealth, their reputations and their lives.

            What you wrote above was not just wrong,it was a most damnable lie.

          • Clairvoyant

            Well, you’re about the last person in the world to be trusted. So, funny that you would determine whether one is lying or not. LOL!

      • PK

        Thomas Jefferson tried to ban slavery before our country was even created, but only got it banned in the Northwest Territory. Many founding fathers wanted it banned nationwide, but of course some wanted it, and some actually rationalized it since Britain wouldn’t have given up as easy if we did ban it, since they controlled the slave trade and was their biggest income from the Americas. They counted on it being banned once the country got a secure footing for defending itself from a re-invasion. It eventually happened. Our country’s history is far from perfect, but it’s been far better than any other throughout recorded history. Sadly it looks like we’re going to go the way of every other. I wonder if we’ll ever get to the point of having gladiatorial events with fights to the death in all the sports Colosseums we have all over the country. I wouldn’t be surprised if that could happen by the time the new generation is 30-40, we’ve already let over 50 million babies be murdered at the whom.

        • borborygmi45

          Rather a large jump from public gladitorial events to abortion. The populace will have to first call for public executions on pay tv.
          Jefferson also felt that when the slaves were free they should be shipped back to their original country as he couldn’t see the cultural differences could be bridged, thus whites couldn’t live with negros or negros with whites. Talk about a road to uniformity if you use that as an excuse.

          • PK

            It’s funny you didn’t bring up the fact the Jefferson could’ve freed his slaves, but never did.

          • borborygmi45

            Doesn’t seem amusing at all. Perhaps you find humor in it?

          • PK

            Maybe you should re-read what i said. I’m not saying it’s funny that Jefferson didn’t free his slaves, i’m saying it’s funny, or odd, that you didn’t use that fact as a counter, since it’s an easy way to try to discredit Thomas Jefferson when it comes to slavery.

          • $8194357

            Twist and spin
            spin and twist…
            It is what they do, huh.

    • borborygmi45

      Exodus 21:20-21 “And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a
      rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if
      he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money

      • $8194357

        HE IS THE ALMIGHTY, gurgle…..
        If YOU want to blame HIM for what fallen mankind did?

        Good luck with that….

        (Liberty and Freedom for all…….
        unless you were a woman or negro, or Indian or slave or)

        If ya want to argue with the Creator what HE Chooses to do with HIS Creation?
        “again” He is dealing with “fallen mankind”
        (Exodus 21:20-21)
        Good luck with that as well, huh…

        GET SAVED and enjoy the end of Law’s Wrath….

        Isaiah 12:1-4
        New King James Version
        (NKJV)

        A Hymn of Praise

        1 And in that day you will say:

        “O Lord, I will praise You;
        Though You were angry with me,
        Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me.

        2 Behold, God is my salvation,
        I will trust and not be afraid;
        ‘For Yah, the Lord, is my strength and song;
        He also has become my salvation.’”

        3 Therefore with joy you will draw water
        From the wells of salvation.

        4 And in that day you will say:

        “Praise the Lord,
        call upon His name;
        Declare His deeds among the peoples,
        Make mention that His name is exalted.

        • borborygmi45

          You are admitting that God wasn’t for freedom but since it is God Okay and since the Founding Fathers Based the Constitution on the Bible or natural law or Gods Law it was okay. Thank GOD for the Amendment process.

          • $8194357

            I am admitting only that YOU are a fool for “blaming God”
            for what man does or doesn’t do..

          • borborygmi45

            So the laws of the Israelites which you say promoted freedom and liberty (which I showed you they don’t) were not divinely inspired? Yet you say the words of the Bible are divinely inspired and the founders based the Constitution on these words and laws?

          • $8194357

            You wrestle with the Almighty here in the flesh with the carnal mans limited understandings….Sad part about it?
            Ya think your right and are winning….

          • borborygmi45

            Are the laws of the Israelites divinely inspired? I am making it simple for you.

          • $8194357

            ( I am making it simple for you.)

            Well fart bubble you arrogant liberal self centered know it all know nothing…..I wouldn’t expect anything less from you leftist indoctrinated self elitist PO$ legend in your own mind…

            Mighty neighborly of ya all to speak down at us simple country conservative Bible Believin neanderthals like that, huh.
            Take up your self righteous anger with God, gurgle…I am not Him…

          • Neiman

            Yes, every word was divinely inspired, although He inspired His scribes/prophets to often record the sins of man and even record their attempts to lead people into hell. So to say He inspired each word is true, just not how you are twisting it to mean what it does not.

          • Neiman

            You did not show anything like that at all. Why must you liberals lie?

            Until the 1800’s, slavery was an accepted institution all over the world, from the dawn of man. The reasons were many, but in Israel it was for economic reasons of indebtedness that people were given into involuntary servitude to pay their debts, which involves making the responsible for their actions, which is something I know you you liberals hate. So, God established through their spiritual leaders certain humane rules of conduct, including their release in 7 years.

            Your anti-christ slip is showing again, as usual.

          • borborygmi45

            Tacit approval. Nice.

          • Neiman

            Involuntary servitude is a historical reality, one does not approve of history, one simply recognizes it existed.

          • Neiman

            Another false accusation based on ignorance.

            “You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free (liberty). But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in
            love.” Galatians 5:13

            God granted all men free will, freedom, liberty and yet, knowing that men, all men, are evil continually, He warns us through Paul not to use our precious liberty as an excuse to sin, in essence, don’t say I am free from the Law and can sin without penalty.

            Liberty is not free and it can lead to most terrible consequences when men use it to satisfy their own varied lusts. But, if we use our liberty to do good and do what is right, then it is a great blessing and it is a gift from God.

            We have steadily lost our liberty, the liberty paid for by the blood and fortunes of our Founding Fathers and innumerable men and women that fought to keep us free; we could not use it to do what is right, rather we indulged our lusts and even kicked God out of our national affairs so we could abuse our liberty even more and the price is loss of that liberty. We brought it on ourselves, because we abused His gift.

          • $8194357

            satan uses governments to enslave the sheople to his agendas,
            not the heavenly agenda of God…
            (whether churches or governments?
            earthly minded agendas !)
            Gurgle likes to blame God for all of fallen man kinds failures and
            cruelties under satan’s ideological earthly systems..

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So Raygun was a tool of Satan, is that right, Gun Nut.
            I’ll tell ya, I’m inclined to give you that one.

          • $8194357

            He’s dead fool…Get over him……….

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            OK, Gun Nut says that alive Raygun was a tool of Satan.

            Good to know.

            Thanks, Gun Nut.

          • $8194357

            If ya don’t know Raygun is dead?
            Just ask lap dog….We will tell ya all about it…

          • $8194357

            Gun nut did not say what boob “projected” and twisted to fit his deceived ideological line of B/$.

          • borborygmi45

            So owning slave is and was always a sin? The laws based on owning a slave where also sinful?

          • $8194357

            Slaves were a form of property fallen mankind judged his wealth on…
            When a free man went into debt he could not repay?
            He became an endentured servant, (slave)
            to the one who held his debt…(satan)
            Jesus set us free from the debt we owed to God if we but
            accept His Grace and Gift…

            But here in the darkness of satans realm…
            The elitist oligarchy owns us all through debt our government owes to their rigged manufactured debt Ponzi structures…..

            HE paid a debt He did not owe,
            I had a debt, I could not pay…..
            I needed “Someone” to wash that debt away….
            Now I sing a “brand new song” Amazing Grace……
            How Great Thou Art……

            Don’t Blame God , the Bible or the Founders and our Constitution for man not following the Law they were given and “progressively”
            CHANGEING them and moving FORWARD
            into the devils systems and structures, tool….

          • borborygmi45

            Well those progressive changes let the woman vote and made the slave free. Horrible progressive amendments.

          • $8194357

            Both slavery and women’s rights were Constitutional conservative Republican causes tho gurgle. But thanks for keeping it simple and putting your modernist marxist social justice spin on it to keep us country bumpkins from feeling all inferior to your superior intellect, now, hear?

          • Matthew Hawkins

            Neither slavery nor women’s rights were Constitutional conservative positions. Slavery and anti-women’s positions were written into the constitution. It was Constitutionally progressive positions that righted these wrongs.

            This just shows how far the Republican Party has fallen. Republicans used to stand up for the weak, now you stand up for the strong.

          • $8194357

            You indoctrinated useful idiots don’t know the “real” difference between an old school limited governance libertarian and a modern day marxist progressive statist, so don’t get all on your false marxist academic high horse fool tool….

          • Matthew Hawkins

            The modern day Republican Party would sing Dixie, grab the Confederate Flag and fight for the South all the while claiming that slavery was just an ancillary issue and that they were really just fighting for “States Rights.” But really all they would be fighting for are rich white plantation owners.

          • $8194357

            If you say so Matthew..
            It is marxist academic gospel, huh.
            I am no big fan of any lifer in DC what ever letter they carry behind their name…They are bought and paid for water boys and girls to the international progressive oligarchy since JFK was used as an example as to what happens when ya challenge the global agendas.

          • Neiman

            Everything you said above was a lie. You fail to say that it was Republicans that passed the great Civil Rights legislation of the Sixties, against strong pro-slavery Democrats. It was conservative Christians here and in Great Britain, here it was North and South, that opposed slavery and brought that institution to and end; and oh, it was Republican Lincoln that you liberals try to pretend was a Democrat that issued the Emancipation Proclamation. I could go on, but it was democrats that were the slave traders and were anti-women..

          • $8194357

            UNESCO ideological revisionism
            has cast its deceptive spell with a very wide net, huh.

          • Matthew Hawkins

            That is all history. The Republican Party used to be honorable. It no longer is.
            The Republican Party used to fight for the poor, now they fight for the rich.

          • Neiman

            Forgive me, although I understand why you “feel” that way, that is a misconception, being wholly untrue in reality.

            I have argued against Republicans for creating that false impression because they are unable to articulate their goals in human terms, not that their goals are not based on genuine concern for the poor; but, they focus more on the economics, on capitalism, as the means of lifting all boats, the better the economy for those people that create jobs and wealth, the greater the overall prosperity of everyone, That is proven to be true by the fact that the poorest among us live at a much, much higher standard of living than most of the people of the world. Yet, when talking economics Republicans unfortunately tend to sound like green eye shade bookkeepers and accountants, they want desperately to explain their sound economic theory; and, not looking up and speaking of how these things improve the lives of the very poorest among us, thus they falsely appear hard hearted and uncaring. This has been a major complaint of mine her at SAB and has caused many conservatives to be very angry with me because they refuse to improve their skills at communication of their very correct economic theory with the language of compassion.

            Lastly, even though I understand how you get that false impression, if you talk to average conservatives and Republicans, you will find them more generous in their personal giving to those in need than liberals, the latter preferring to put their hands in the pockets of other people to meet those needs and think themselves morally superior by using money they steal for charitable purposes, it is an partisan, institutionalized Robin Hood syndrome.

            I assure you that you are mistaken, but I do understand why you feel that way and I blame Republicans and Conservatives for not understanding that false impression exists and working to overcome it.

          • Tim Hines

            Well written!

          • JoeMN

            Do welfare programs actually lift people out of poverty as Democrats claim ?
            Nope
            In fact, unlimited entitlements insure this vicious cycle of poverty continues on through generation after generation.
            There is no “honor” in redistributing someone else’s wealth.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            You failed, Old Pal, to say that gop opened their arms to the racist Democrats with their Southern Strategy scheme.

            Gotta thank your party for that one, Old Pal.

          • LenYol

            Some times you have to make the best with the sh#t that’s handed to ya.

          • Tim Hines

            An open letter to Bob and Neiman: I GET it…. I really do….You encounter someone on this blog that just “rubs you the wrong way” and you can spend countless hours in verbal sparring matches…. My first go-round here logged in as DeuceSoliloquy, I felt compelled to do the same when I encountered Robert108…It’s now July 7, and this thread has grown to over 400 comments, which is great for Rob and SAB’s “rate card” and I BELIEVE everyone here truly believes in their right to “say anything” (I know I do, anyways) but I just want to throw one thought out there: Don’t do anything to damp down your exchanges for me….Don’t consider it a request of “appeasement” for either side….No, please just consider all the younger, potential new SAB patrons, stumbling onto this site armed only with original IPad 1’s, or any other machine with underpowered RAM and/or graphics power…or, God forbid, trying to load it all in using dial-up…THESE are the people I’m asking you both to consider during your sparring matches…the young, the unitiated….the woefully underpowered…Consider the experiences you are denying them as they get frustrated while getting the comments section to load in, and as their disappointments mount, rush over to TMZ instead….I know I have no right to ask of either of you, but if not for me? Think of the kids! ;-) (And….if he’s out there? Mr. Meister? Please note, if you can’t tell, my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek)

          • Neiman

            In the first place, I have stopped all communications with Bob – even though it is hard when I see one of his many damnable lies against me. So, you are not very aware of the facts. It is Bob that has a psycho-sexual obsession with me and is my own pathological lying, demon possessed cyber-stalker, I try and completely ignore him and his sub-human filth.

            The same with Len Yol, he is dead as far as I am concerned, I know they have both, by their free will choice, chosen hell.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, just “one man’s” opinion”, but that’s an interesting, if not somewhat ineffectual final comment to leave with if you consider them “dead to you”…Now, I guess somewhere on this thread my suspected family ties to Dr. Phil had been called into question, so I better just leave it at that….

          • borborygmi45

            Then by definition the Constitutional Conservative and Republican are ‘progressives’ Thats nice

          • $8194357

            Not the new world order meaning of progressive
            all ya all libtards are blind to.

          • Clairvoyant

            Calling someone a “libtard”. Salvation? Don’t think so. Go back to drinking. Cuz’ it doesn’t make any difference to Jesus when someone like you is so pathetic.

          • $8194357

            st. jeromes jury of one,
            and his opinions matter not to me, Ray ray…
            Your not my Judge, advocate, or brother…
            As a matter of fact…
            Your more in legue with the devils accuser doin the work of ridicule
            and false morality police.

          • Clairvoyant

            I’d worry about God’s word. Perhaps the San Francisco airplane crash was God’s way of punishing you and Neiman for your false representations of Christianity? Food for thought.

          • $8194357

            That is perhaps the saddest statement yet from you, Ray ray…
            Blaming God killing two folks for your false moral judgments…
            That “mill stone” ya are wearing is going to get soooo HEAVY, huh…

          • Clairvoyant

            it’s not my morality. look in the mirror. and double check the tome you are worshiping. I said “perhaps”. It’s not definite. calm down

          • Neiman

            No one is worshipping the KJV – that is another of your damnable lies, we worship God only and in the hands of the Spirit we use God’s Word as a sure guide.

            “And I said to the man who stood at the gate: “Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown.” And he replied: “Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the Hand of God. That shall be to you better than light and safer than a known way.” “God Knows” by Minnie Louise Haskins.

            You need to forget this insistent, juvenile wrangling about the Roman Bible, the Latin Vulgate as translated by Jerome and your unproven charges of pedophilia againt King James, who did not translate the KJV; and, either prove the Holy Bible wrong with exhaustive documentation or better, put your hand in the hand of God and ask Him to lead you out of the gross darkness that clouds your soul and keeps you from the free gift of God of salvation in Christ Jesus alone.

            May God help you, you are a lost, angry, hate filled child.

          • Clairvoyant

            Scholarly Christian Progressive®: “No one is worshipping the KJV”. Yes, but the point is you are using it as “fact”, and drinking the content like “Kool-Aid”. I imagine that salespeople find you as an easy patsy to sell you tons of stuff that you don’t really need.

          • Neiman

            The point is you are using the Vulgate as fact and it has not one iota greater accuracy than the KJV and in fact with time and the increase in availability of ancient manuscripts and fragments like the Dead Sea Scrolls, they prove an incredible, almost miraculous accuracy of the KJV.

            I know you are an easy patsy for the tons of lies of Rome.

          • Clairvoyant

            I’m guessing that you’d never heard of the Vulgate until this discussion. Your bizarre brand of “Christianity” is sad, with your hate of every legitimate Chritian denomination. Yet, you hang onto a bizarre sect of made-up Christianity that is sure to make Jesus cry. Repent and leave the dark side, brother.

          • $8194357

            He came first to His Own as the Lamb for sinners slain,
            (and they knew Him naught)
            and secondly for the gentile….
            When He Comes Again?
            Every Knee will Bow and EVERY Tongue CONFESS…
            That Jesus Christ is LORD of LORDS and
            KING of KINGS,
            huh..
            Dear friend,

            Shalom!
            The Brooklyn Messianic Center is coming closer to completion,
            and we are already planning for our new ministries this fall.
            I want to tell you about what we hope to do –
            but first I wanted to share with you something more personal.

            As you know, our new Messianic Center is in the heart of Orthodox Jewish Brooklyn, surrounded by synagogues, Yeshivas (Jewish parochial schools), kosher restaurants, Jewish bookstores and other familiar landmarks of well-established Jewish neighborhoods! It reminds me of the neighborhood where I grew up, in the borough of Queens, New York. I had many friends at that time who were ultra-Orthodox Jews and did not go to public school, instead attended the nearby Yeshivas. We played sports together, met on the streets and went to the same Jewish summer camps!

          • Clairvoyant

            Dime Store Christ®: I guess the true colors are out on your Jew hating. I suppose you play the “Holocaust didn’t happen” game with Dave Duke and Ahmadinejad?

            There is a reason why you are called the Dime Store Christ®. It’s because you use some sort of false Christ to play your game of twisted hate. Nice. Ever hear of Judgement Day?

          • $8194357

            WOW…
            Project much?

          • $8194357

            So ya do believe in a “vengeful” God after all, huh.
            Just if He punishes according to your own understanding and will…

            “perhaps” is some what of a technicality to hang your
            st. Jerome hat on tho, Ray…

            Yes…Just Ray….

            I will not antagonize you with names anymore,

            As it is the part of fallen nature I don’t like in myself,
            but still respond in kind to others who throw verbal stones in my direction…..

          • $8194357

            Origin of TOME
            Middle French or Latin;
            Middle French,
            from Latin tomus,
            from Greek tomos section,
            roll of papyrus,

            tome, from temnein to cut;
            akin to Middle Irish tamnaid he lops,
            Polish ciąć to cut,
            and perhaps to Latin tondēre to shear

            First Known Use:

            1519

            The 7th day Adventist “tome” (part n parcel)
            of the whole manuscript/understanding,
            will suffice for thee….
            but not for me….

            Give me The Promised Helper any day.
            Not as the world gives..
            I Give unto thee….Born Again Believer.

            John 14:25-27
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            The Gift of His Peace

            25 “These things I have spoken to you
            while being present with you.

            26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit,
            whom the Father will send in My name,
            He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

            27 Peace I leave with you,
            My peace I give to you;
            not as the world gives do I give to you.
            Let not your heart be troubled,
            neither let it be afraid.

          • $8194357

            Tome (pun) to give up the Vulcan Bible yet?
            (Lenard Nimoy Special Edition)

            Extended 24 Hours By Popular Demand:
            1599 Geneva Bible
            (Bonded Leather + CD)
            Buy One Get One Free!
            Not to late to come back to earth and get grounded in some non cultish doctrines, huh.
            :-)

          • Clairvoyant

            But you have a nice night, HEAR?

          • $8194357

            Oh, I Hear Ray…
            Make no mistake about that.

          • Clairvoyant

            Dime Store Christ®: It aint HEAVY, he’s my brother. no wait………… I don’t have a brother…

          • $8194357
          • Guest
          • two_amber_lamps
          • Neiman

            You are indicting the entire Protestant Church and making accusations more common to fringe lunatics.

            In all the many exhaustive debates I have engaged with SDA Scholars and their leading pastors, not once did they use any other Bible but the KJV in their arguments, not once. Not once did they invoke the Latin Vulgate. I am beginning to think you belong to some fringe SDA group that caused a schism and left the SDA.

            No it is not food for thought, with incredibly rare exception the disasters in this world, natural and man made are a result of our free will rebellion against God and the fact that the rain falls on the just and unjust alike.

            I tell you this plainly – if you did not repent of your sins and by faith accept Jesus as your only savior and Lord and were not born again of His Spirit you are lost. Jesus said with equal strength – “Ye must be born again.”

            “There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these
            miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and
            said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter
            into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again” (John 3:1-7).

            He was saying 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Jesus is that narrow gate only only by faith in Him and the new spiritual birth will anyone see God.

            You are angry and on entering the wide gate, be careful.

          • $8194357

            Calling someone else dime store “circle R”
            (anti christ/Christian)?

            Judging a servant not of your own.
            Salvation?

            Only to a believer in “religious works”
            and/or Adventist doctrine…

          • borborygmi45

            I am talking dictionary definition

          • $8194357

            Funny gurgle how ideology and agendas hide behind words and definitions..

            Edited and put in agendas.

          • $8194357

            Oh, fart bubble…

            Since ya brought it up…
            Here is what your modern social justice “progressive poster boy”
            is “really” all about.

            But in the “progressive name of” diversity and tolerance of course
            so all ya all with the superior intellects can jump on the tyranist band wagon…
            Oh and by the way fart bubble…The Egyptian people blame America and Americans for what the ideological fascists and global egomaniacs are doing in our name …
            just like you and the liberal crew here at home who vote for all this communist marxist social justice B/$ in the first place…
            GO F’N FIGURE, huh.

            http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/07/06/egypt-rabid-anti-obama-blowback-highlights-the-ouster-of-morsi/

            EGYPT: Rabid anti-Obama blowback highlights the ouster of Morsi

            LOSE. LOSE. Both (150,000) pro-Morsi Islamists and the (30 million) anti-Morsi protesters accuse the U.S. of supporting the other and allege elaborate conspiracies against Egypt. (While that may or may not be true, it is ONLY the anti-Morsi protesters who have been seen carrying anti-Obama signs right from the beginning of the demonstrations)

            LA Times As rival camps of Egyptians protest for and against the toppling of President Mohamed Morsi, there is a rare point of agreement: America is to blame.

          • Neiman

            That is what he does, he twists words and makes evil declarations about what you meant and falsely thinks himself wise and clever, while he truly is a fool.

          • $8194357

            A projecting satanic lap dog.

          • borborygmi45

            arf arf

          • $8194357

            It is funny to ya now….

          • Neiman

            All Liberals and even most conservatives, not being Christians, all being practical atheists; blame God for everything evil, when He says He is not the Author of Evil. It is because He gave us free will that He would have a people that chose Him out of love and not compulsion that man sins continually, but they will face Him one day and their mouths will be closed, their lies silenced, but it will be too late to save their souls.

          • $8194357

            To sit in the seat of the scorners and mockers is a bad place to be, huh…Fools to “their own” destruction.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Address your lies, address your defamation…..don’t post scripture if you can’t even respect it enough to be a decent Christian.

          • $8194357

            Address your lack of Salvation, adultery, taxes and deceptions of the false ideologies of marxist social justice understandings, “before you” try to chastise “ANYONE” fool tool……….

          • Neiman

            I have no desire to offend these people, not even pathological liar and Christ hater Bob, truly I do not. But, when faced with their lies and we disagree, with some passion, in our own defense, by necessity such a defense offends them. When we use God’s Word, it offends them even more.

            This gives me no pleasure, but when you go out in the world, walking among serpents, it seems impossible, no matter how much I would like to win their hearts for Christ, Jesus remains to them a stumbling stone and He remains an offense to them.

            This definitely is not fun, yet, when His Word goes out, it will never return to Him void, whether we see it or not, it will accomplish His Divine Purpose.

          • $8194357

            Yes sir.
            True that….
            but great will the reward be in Heaven,
            if we indeed do it from the heart and with
            His Kingdom Come in mind, IMHO.

          • Tim Hines

            “All Liberals and even most conservatives, not being Christians, all being practical atheists; blame God for everything evil, when He says He is not the Author of Evil.”…An interesting generalization, but all I can tell you, from my own experiences, is that I don’t….I’ve described myself repeatedly to others as pretty “self reflective” with a smile and a nod..(maybe that can be interpreted as “smugness”, maybe more, but it works OK for me these days) and I will say that most of the “personal evil” I encounter these days, I usually bring onto myself…But I’m trying and learning every day….

          • borborygmi45

            You are the one that brought in the nation of Israel and freedom and Liberty

          • $8194357

            Shame on me, huh.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            God granted all men free will, freedom, liberty and yet, knowing that men, all men, are evil continually, He warns us through Paul not to use our precious liberty as an excuse to sin, in essence, don’t say I am free from the Law and can sin without penalty.

            You use God’s grace as an excuse to sin because you believe as long as you repent “honestly” you will be saved. You also use God’s word as a weapon.

            Sadly, you are a disgrace to good Christians everywhere.

          • $8194357

            When did ya last get the clap poi boi?
            Your the disgrace………..
            Pay your taxes, huh………….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So you are going to lie and then defame people as a sign that you are a true Christian? Is that your motto, gun nut?

          • $8194357

            Shark bait,
            That is really rich coming from you toilet bowl surfer….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            It’s not rich, it’s the truth. Not that you have the slightest ability to decipher the truth when you see it.

            Hiding behind your Bible is no excuse to lie about others and defame while avoiding your sin.

          • $8194357

            You are oblivious to any “real truth”.
            Fools, scorners and mockers run in packs,
            huh poi boi…Wrath is soon coming fool tool…

            Psalm 35:15-17
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            15 But in my adversity they rejoiced
            And gathered together;
            Attackers gathered against me,
            And I did not know it;
            They tore at me and did not cease;

            16 With ungodly mockers at feasts
            They gnashed at me with their teeth.

            17 Lord, how long will You look on?
            Rescue me from their destructions,
            My precious life from the lions.

          • $8194357

            He with an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches today?
            That is not you shark bait…Ya mock what ya don’t understand and love earthly satanic ideological marxist social justice falsehood…
            Isaiah 28:21-23
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            21 For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim,
            He will be angry as in the Valley of Gibeon—
            That He may do His work, His awesome work,
            And bring to pass His act, His unusual act.
            22 Now therefore, do not be mockers,
            Lest your bonds be made strong;
            For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts,
            A destruction determined even upon the whole earth.

            Listen to the Teaching of God

            23 Give ear and hear my voice,
            Listen and hear my speech.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Address your lies, address your defamation…..don’t post scripture if you can’t even respect it enough to be a decent Christian.

          • $8194357

            Address Salvation, your taxes, and your adultery
            before ya take “anyone” to task about your false
            marxist social justice gospel……………poi boi…….

          • $8194357

            Jeremiah 15:16-18
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            16 Your words were found, and I ate them,
            And Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart;
            For I am called by Your name,
            O Lord God of hosts.

            17 I did not sit in the assembly of the mockers,
            Nor did I rejoice;
            I sat alone because of Your hand,
            For You have filled me with indignation.

            18 Why is my pain perpetual
            And my wound incurable,
            Which refuses to be healed?
            Will You surely be to me like an unreliable stream,
            As waters that fail?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Address your lies, address your defamation…..don’t post scripture if you can’t even respect it enough to be a decent Christian.

          • $8194357

            Address your own miserable lost soul’s multiple deceptions….kid.

          • Neiman

            Notice he attacks your faith even though you confess Jesus here daily. He also attacks your use of Scripture which He dare not use.

            I have asked him and the other members of his unholy trio to define what it means from their wholly secular perspective to be a decent Christian and they never do, although it is obvious that to them it is one of doing falsely called “good works.” In other words, to them it means earning their salvation by being good liberals, by stealing from others to give to charity wherein they get credit for the charity of giving other peoples money, it means being a liberal person that tolerates sin, refuses to denounce sin and one that would never offend sinners by calling them to salvation in Christ Jesus. To them it means they can demean people, attack them, curse them, cal them names and act like sinners; but any fault in a person declaring themselves Christian, is cause for the unholy trio to lie about them and denounce them.

            Yes you were right above, they need a good mirror, as the evil they think they see in you, is really their own reflection looking back at themselves.

          • $8194357

            Shark bait is all about atheist marxist social justice and eviromental mother earth secular religions…They “touch” on Christianity from time to time when the deceptions lead them to a false moral cause booster shot.

          • Neiman

            That is the whole point. Hannitized and Ellinas and other liberals use the language of the Bible, they use Jesus Name and invoke His approval of their actions; while they are not Christians by virtue of any new new birth and they twist His Words to make it appear He approves of their actions and beliefs. It is the false Church of the End Times, it will have the form of religion, all religions and profess a belief in God to deceive the world, while they advance evolution and atheism.

          • $8194357

            It is what it is for sure.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, if we’re being fair, I weighed in with “judge not, lest ye be judged yourself” and you responded on how Non-Christians use it…but to be fair, I really don’t think you gave YOUR interpretation of what it means to you….

          • Tim Hines

            Wait a minute…to be fair, I DID go back and re-read now…And it was a response to how you BELIEVE it’s better to error than “polite people to hell”..but really? You think those are your only two choices?

          • Neiman

            As you have denied Jesus as being your only Savior and the absolute Lord of your life, as you condone sins He condemns, as you are an accessory to mass murder; your judgment about who is or who is not a Christian is meaningless.

            Your having denied Christ, you do not understand Grace at all, you do not understand that all men “have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:23 You, should read and meditate over and over on Romans 5-8, especially Chapter Seven, wherein Paul talks extensively of the struggle of the flesh to obey God, of His own shortcomings in doing the very things that he does not want to do:

            7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

            13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means!
            Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what
            is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

            14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

            21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

            So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

            Caught as are all Christians in this daily struggle, caught in the failures of the weakness of the flesh, Paul cries out who will save me from this weak, sin prone body? The Holy Spirit in Him replies:

            Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

            So while in the flesh we all, except self righteous liberals like yourself, struggle and often fail, but we cannot come into Judgment, we cannot ever be condemned because in Spirit, we are in Christ Jesus, we share in His holiness, His perfection. Were you a true Christian, you would know this and rejoice that no matter your sins, and I assure you as I listed above – plus your prolific fornications that you have confessed here, you are a sinner of the first degree; you could know forgiveness and mercy.

            But you do not think you are a sinner at all, you do not think you nor any sinner needs repentance, you do not think anyone needs Jesus for the salvation of their souls, especially if they are good little liberals.

            Before you point your evil finger at me, you should confess to God you deserve hell, repent of your sins, turn to Jesus to save your would and then, you may see the Truth.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So lies, more lies on top of lies? Is that how you roll, as a supposed Christian?

          • Neiman

            You cannot find a single lie by me above. You have a lot of gall, you that lies continuously calling someone else a liar. First, be Born Again and only then might you judge rightly.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I have told you again and again that I don’t have to confess to you, that I confess Jesus to others who are worthy does not mean you are the one who can determine if someone is Christian or not.

            My actions alone, everyday show that I am more Christian than you. All you do is lie and attack people using The Bible as a weapon.

          • $8194357

            Clap trap tax evader
            marxist social justice deceived fool tool to your own destructions, much?

          • Neiman

            Did you notice that he looks for every excuse not to confess Jesus as his only Savior and the Lord of his life? Jesus tells us that he cannot, because he does not have the Holy Spirit within him and to confess Jesus as Lord means obeying Him rather than man and that means he would have to denounce homosexuality as being a sin, as well as abortion and gay marriage and these things he can never do.

            I wish that he, Ellinas and even Christ hater Bob were Christians; but they are surely hate filled enemies of Christ and of the souls they lie into hell.

          • $8194357

            The Law will condem…

            The Spirit leads to conviction and repentance.
            The Love,Grace, and Blood of Jesus unto Salvation.

            We just need to keep the focus of our hearts on Christ and His Word of Truth and leave the rest up to the Holy Trinity.
            They do despise the Light of Truth, tho, huh…
            Mans heart is wicked and dark and shuns the Light…

          • Neiman

            But, Jesus said, Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 10:32 He says we are to confess Jesus before men, He offers no excuse for resistance. Plus, I told you it is, as God advises us, a way to test the spirit of men if they are of Christ or not, “1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the (their) Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”

            Is that Christian humility saying you are MORE Christian than someone else? Isn’t that pride? Does the man (you) that brags about his fornications, defends homosexuality and abortion, more Christian than anyone, seeing the God condemns them all? No true Christian would ever think themselves good Christians at all, only grateful for having escaped hell by God’s gift of Grace.

            You cannot prove any lies and “attack” is just another liberal word like racism, sexism and etc, all designed to silence anyone opposing your godless liberalism.

            Who are you, a non-Christian to say what is the standard for one that is a Christian? Is the man having lived a life with the demon lusts for alcohol and saved on his deathbed any less a Christian than one that abstained for a lifetime? What is a Christian, you falsely think it is being good, usually by taking money from others and giving it away so you will feel charitable with money you stole, as a liberal. It is NOT about works, it is not about some standard of being good enough, no one is good enough – no saint hannitized, not even you. It is about coming to an understanding of our being a worthless sinner deserving of hell, confessing one’s sins to God, sincere repentance and accepting the free gift of Jesus as our Savior by faith – that makes one a Christian, nothing else. Line up all true Christians and they are few in number, none are alike, all have weaknesses, all have strengths, not one wold meet your secular standard of a Christian; but they are all redeemed by the blood of the lamb, saved forever. I wish the same might be said of you some day.

          • Tim Hines

            So, admittedly scripture and theology are not my strong suite…but isn’t there something to be said for “judge not, lest ye be judged yourself”?

          • Neiman

            If we would interpret that Divine admonition in the most absolute terms, as people outside the Christian faith prefer, surely society and even the Church would fall apart from a serious lack of any self-judgment at all; thus, there must be more to it than people of a simple, unChristian mind might understand it to mean.

            This is not to be understood of any sort of judgment at all; certainly not of judgment in the civil courts of judicature, by proper magistrates, which ought to be made and pass, according to the nature of the case; nor of judgment in the churches of Christ, where offenders are to be called to an account, examined, tried, and dealt with according to the rules of the Gospel; nor of every private judgment, which one man may make upon another, without any detriment to him; but of rash judgment, interpreting men’s words and deeds to the worst sense, and censuring them in a very severe manner; even passing sentence on them, with respect to their eternal state and condition.

            Surely it does not prevent the man of an evangelistic spirit from warning others that if they continue on their current path they face hell and destruction? Or, John the Baptist, the Apostles,a myriad of saints, or even Jesus were wrong in denouncing sin and warning of the pain of hell.

            Did you ever notice it is almost exclusively non-Christians that use that passage? Why? Because they do not want their favorite lusts opposed or to hear any warnings of consequences against many of their free will choices. The Christian is human and may err on the side of delivering too strong a message, although that must be preferred over a watered down, weak message that fails to accomplish its goal. Christians are but watchmen upon the wall of the city, crying out against the enemy that are coming against God’s people to bring death and they must fear God if they make an unclear sound or are too weak in their warnings that they fail to awaken the people to danger.

            In the Christian faith we must not use one passage to the detriment of all others, but seek harmony between seemingly varying passages so that we do not become spiritually unbalanced. If we using Scripture say, if you do this or that or fail to do this or that you are in danger of hell, it is not making absolute judgment about that person, but warning of the risks of a fatally dangerous course of action.

          • Tim Hines

            “Did you ever notice it is almost exclusively non-Christians that use that passage?” Honestly? I hadn’t…..I told you at the beginning, theology and scripture AREN’T my strongest suites, I just always thought it was one of many good, general principles to use to shape my life, and how I choose to live it…but that’s just me…

          • Neiman

            Without the balance of Scriptural teaching it sounds very good on the surface and yet, I believe it can prove terribly harmful in practice, if we are not guided by the Holy Spirit. Most people, those outside the Church and even a great many within it, apply it without Divine Wisdom to interpret God’s Will on the subject rightly. Surely we must judge things and people every day, or we may call the rapist or murderer brother, just because we do not want to judge anyone. It is also very good to be careful in judging people, we are all quite often wrong in both directions. So, it is good to say, ‘Lord as I do not want to be judged harshly for my failures, please help me not to judge others harshly for theirs; but only oppose that (acts) which I believe according to your Word are wrong/sin and not judge the person’s eternal fate or worth as human beings.’

            For the Christian of an evangelistic spirit, we trod a precarious path, easy to stumble and fall, to err along the way, to be over zealous and seemingly harsh in our desire to rescue souls from hell. But, for us it is a calling, it is to defend Divine Truth, not that God needs our puny efforts or that His Word needs any defense; but that, we might warn others of the everlasting consequences of the path they trod and though we may do it quite badly at times, it seems to me it is better to stumble and make mistakes than it is to, in order not to be accused of judging others, to polite people into hell . . . but that is just me.

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, while I can’t say it as flowing as you, I can definitely say we share a similarity of “intent”, in my opinion..

          • Clairvoyant

            Yup. He doesn’t even have a basic grasp of salvation. Sad.

          • $8194357

            Ya mean if ya don’t follow st jerome and go to church on Saturday
            kind of grasp on Salvation?

          • $8194357

            Mornin clair…
            The day always start off better with the Word , huh….
            God Loves His children to “inquire” of Him every day, no…
            Ask….Seek…Knock….
            That the door of your heart might be opened unto Him…

            Psalm 18:25-30
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            25 With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful;
            With a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless;

            26 With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
            And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.

            27 For You will save the humble people,
            But will bring down haughty looks.

            28 For You will light my lamp;
            The Lord my God will enlighten my darkness.

            29 For by You I can run against a troop,
            By my God I can leap over a wall.

            30 As for God, His way is perfect;
            The word of the Lord is proven;
            He is a shield to all who trust in Him.

          • Clairvoyant

            Dime Store Christ®: NKJV has been shown to you as a fraudulent tome, ordered by a pedophile, yet you continue to use it. Why? I thought the potential for salvation was important to you.

          • $8194357

            St jerome and his roman catholic latin translation is the narrow gate ya choose so be it..
            Good luck with that Ray ray….

          • Clairvoyant

            Good luck with Wikipedia. No wonder you’re so gullible. Geesh

          • $8194357

            http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Sep1997/feature2.asp

            Seems both you and the Catholics love
            st. jerome.
            Quite a mix their huh.
            Roman Catholic and 7th day Adventurists…

          • $8194357

            http://www.latinvulgate.com/

            You should really do some of your own investigations
            when eternity is at stake Ray ray.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, I can’t say for certain about if and when “eternity” awaits any of us…But I DO feel at times it SEEMS like an eternity wading through some of your lengthier exchanges…While I can understand the need, and can appreciate anyone’s undertaking to “fill in the hours”….I do ask myself at times: “Dang, doesn’t this guy have cable or a library card?”

          • $8194357

            :-)

            Ask Rob…
            No one really reads them anyway…
            Is there a big, strong, bad, conservitive man standing there twisting your arm and making
            you read them?

          • Tim Hines

            “is there a big, bad conservative man standing there twisting your arm and making you read them?”…Nope, truthfully, there isn’t…I really hadn’t planned on being around here this much this summer, and unless something really get’s my attention, I don’t know how much longer I”m here….As far as asking Rob, I would…but I don’t think I’m much of a priority of his……

          • $8194357

            (but I don’t think I’m much of a priority of his)
            Well we got that in common, Tim….
            :-)

          • Neiman

            Then please save us all by carefully explaining, according to your beliefs, how one gains salvation? Does that include Purgatory?

          • Clairvoyant

            Scholarly Christian Progressive®: Christians are a big tent. The progressive bibles (NKJV & later) are quite inaccurate and add a lot of untruths. Salvation? Salvation happens to those who are decent Christians that conduct themselves as Christians, such as following the Golden Rule. Things like parking and not piling on the hate that you and the Dime Store Christ®, demonstrate with most posts.

            I’ll entertain questions……….

          • Neiman

            You DO NOT get to make the rules of debate, I’ll ask questions if I think they are helpful and I will simply refute your positions if I think that is most productive.

            Starting with name calling is hardly within the boundaries of the Golden Rule, which states: “Therefore all things whatsoever would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them” Would you have men start or for any cause, call you names, especially apply false labels you have denied? That label is a most damnable lie!

            I have shown you why you are wrong, the KJV is incredibly accurate and no other so-called Scriptures have any greater accuracy of translation. We know that by many means and your reliance on the false bible of Rome will not save you.

            Oh, you offered no factual evidence of your assertions.

            As you use another bible, yours probably makes it a requirement of salvation, a matter of the Law. But God tells us that if we obey the law perfectly, every moment but fail at even the smallest point, He judges us as guilty of breaking the entire Law of Moses and that condemns us to hell. I hate to burst your bubble but you have not obeyed the Law perfectly, as Jesus said, there is no one good – no not one.

            So, salvation cannot be a matter of obedience, the standard being perfect obedience, no one can be saved. Which by the way was the intent of the law, to show the utter frustration of trying to earn our salvation and therefore one man over another having the right to boast, saying I was perfect in obedience and you failed. Not to mention if obedience to God saved us, then Jesus died for nothing, we don’t need Him, we can do it ourselves.

            Unlike you, God is not only a God of Love, but Justice and so every man must die, they must pay for their sins and Purgatory is a lie. So, God gave His only Beloved Son to be born of the flesh, be perfect in obedience to the law and act as our substitute before the Divine Court and suffer and die for us, the just for the unjust. God now offers us salvation as a free gift (grace) which we apply to our lives by faith and are born again of the Spirit, saved evermore. For all that reject His free gift by their free will choice, as you have it seems, will suffer for every one of their sins in everlasting torment, in utter darkness, all alone without end.

            What kind of fool is it that rejects such a gift and says no God, I can obey you perfectly, I will earn my salvation? Salvation is by grace alone, by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone and there is no other way.

          • $8194357

            (I’ll entertain questions……….)

            So ya going to take the two for one deal on
            the leather bound 1599 Geneva Bible?
            :-)

          • Clairvoyant

            that depends. throw in a 25 lb sack of California pistachios and we’ve got a deal.

          • $8194357

            :-)

            Go to any motel 6 and they will have the light on for ya, and most likely the Gideon’s have a free copy (version?) in the desk drawer?

            At least…they used to..

            Psalm 138:1-2
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            The Lord’s Goodness to the Faithful

            A Psalm of David.

            1 I will praise You with my whole heart;
            Before the gods I will sing praises to You.

            2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
            And praise Your name For Your loving kindness and Your truth;
            For You have magnified Your word
            above all Your name.

          • Clairvoyant

            Scholarly Christian Progressive®: You should be taking major blame for losing our liberties Your support of the dumbing down of Christianity with your progressive agenda, has pushed us to low points and its only getting worse. It will continue to get worse if we keep sending the same Dems and Reps to Washington. It’s frustrating to see the gullible lemmings, on both sides of the aisle (each thinking they have the clean side of the turd), continue to fall in line. Please folks- BECOME informed! Turn OFF CNN & Fox!!!!! Hello????

          • $8194357

            So 7th day adventurist know it all “circle R” follower of only st. jerome.
            Will just the 7th day Elect get angels sent for the true followers of st. jerome?

            Will Jesus be using your Vulcan gulag Bible you and st. jerome swear by in verse 35, when He comes to Judge the living and the dead?

            Matthew 24:30-35
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,
            and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
            and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven
            with power and great glory.
            31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
            and they will gather together His elect from the four winds,
            from one end of heaven to the other.

            The Parable of the Fig Tree

            32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree:
            When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves,
            you know that summer is near.
            33 So you also, when you see all these things,
            know that it is near—at the doors!
            34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation
            will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
            35 Heaven and earth will pass away,
            but My words will by no means pass away.

          • Clairvoyant

            who’s “St. Jerome”?

          • $8194357

            The Catholic scribe who translated your clergy’s
            chosen version of the Bible.
            After his dedication to the
            “common translation for the Roman Catholic church”
            they made him a Saint…..Go figure, huh.

          • $8194357

            Root systems clair…
            Root systems…

            Why didn’t ya read it a couple days ago when
            I posted it in response to your query?

            Well maybe read it this time?

            Summary:

            The version of the Bible used by the Roman Catholic church for over a millennia and a half, the Vulgate is a Latin translation of the original bible texts, created mainly by St. Jerome during the end of the third and start of the fourth centuries CE. Vulgate derives from the phrase versio vulgata, or common translation.

            The Need For A Standard:

            Christianity initially spread using Greek texts:
            the New Testament was written in Greek
            and the Old Testament had been translated from Hebrew/Aramiac into a Greek version called the Septuagint;
            even in Rome, the Greek language dominated Christian thought.

            However,
            much of the known world spoke something other than Greek, and as people carried the Christian message they translated their biblical texts into local languages. The first two large strains were in Latin and Syriac.

            There was no official process of translation, just scholarly Christians doing what they needed to when they needed it; because their skills and interpretations differed so did the meaning of their work. By the end of the fourth century, when the Roman church switched to Latin, many translations had appeared, but because they all differed in meaning and in geographical acceptance it was impossible for arguing theologians or interested readers to refer to a standard work

          • Neiman

            “The Vulgate” is the popular name given to the Latin version of the Bible, a translation usually attributed to Jerome.

            Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Latin-Vulgate.html#ixzz2YNVcQzeq

            The Vulgate is a late 4th-century Latin translation of the Bible. It was largely the work of St. Jerome, who was commissioned by Pope Damasus I in 382 to make a revision of the Vetus Latina
            (old Latin translations). Its widespread adoption eventually led to
            their eclipse. By the 13th century this revision had come to be called
            the versio vulgata, that is, the “commonly used translation”.[1] In the 16th century it became the definitive and officially promulgated Latin version of the Bible in the Roman Catholic Church.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate

          • Neiman

            Not one word you typed above is true, it is 100% wrong. But, hyou are still acting juvenile.

          • $8194357

            Those not having the Spirit…………………………
            You, hanni turd, and lost reality boob, are sitting in the seats that will get ya a one way ticket to a very hot place, huh…The mockers of the Biblical will find it out for themselves to late, that running in packs of like minded deceived fool tools “was” the folly of fools….

            Jude 1:17-19
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            17 But you, beloved,
            remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:
            18 how they told you that there would be mockers
            in the last time who would walk according
            to their own ungodly lusts.
            19 These are sensual persons,
            who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

          • borborygmi45

            Okay now I am confused. Which version of the Bible is the true version of the Bible at least in your opinion? Why? To Neiman or 7.62

          • $8194357

            The one the Spirit writes upon the heart of the Born again Believer…
            for we are not any longer under the “Letter of the Law”
            but the “Spirit”.
            As for the One Jesus will Judge the “world”…
            again….THE SPIRIT….
            And the Law….
            (10 Comandments)

      • Neiman

        You non-Christians should not use the Bible, you are incapable of understanding the Truth. The man correcting an unruly, disobedient servant and the servant is not killed after a day or two surviving the beating, the man beating him will not suffer death himself; but he loses that servant and the loss of the money he paid for him, which is sufficient punishment for his evil deed.

        Such servitude was mostly to settle debts the person could not pay and allowed them a way to meet their obligations, mostly unwisely incurred. We find it easy to judge such attitudes today, but for most human history it was the way of life. So, like all things there had to be laws governing how to deal with rebellious servants and with their masters when they were cruel.

        • $8194357

          Gurgle had a liberal “gotcha God” moment tho…
          He is happy………………

          • borborygmi45

            Orgasmic

          • $8194357

            Like I told ya gurgle..
            The devil perverted sex…….

        • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

          Old Pal, just the other day you wrote that you weren’t a Christian.
          Are you banning yourself from misquoting the Holy Bible too?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            It’s true, he said that……………and now he has to find a way to backtrack and twist his words and lie to himself and others to justify the really hateful and stupid things he says on a daily basis.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Well, at least Neiman is good at that.

          • Neiman

            No, I did not say what your dearly beloved Bob falsely accuses me of and now you join him in his lies. You liberals, you antichrists twist every word to mean other than intended and all for evil purposes. Why must you lie, why are you afraid of the Truth?

          • $8194357

            They serve their ideological father, huh..

            Lies and deceptions beget lies and deceptions…
            ya can’t get fresh water from a salt water well un less ya “boil it”, huh…

        • Neiman

          Everyone please note, Bob is lying as usual. I said I did not just call myself a Christian, as being Born Again it is a reality in my life, not just something I say. May Bob be caused to fall to his knees and repent of his great evil against Christ and the Church of Jesus Christ.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, if you don’t call yourself a Christian, then you are a non-Christian.

            Why do you hate The Christ?

          • $8194357

            You are a real devils lap dog, huh.
            Sitting in the seat of the mockers and scorners
            gnashing your deceived teeth….
            so “FULL” of self and deception….

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            If you or your pal, Neiman feel mocked by Neiman’s own words, perhaps you should encourage him not to use them.

          • $8194357

            Your ability to “twist” anything written to attack the writer is so Alinsky lap dog…
            Burn baby Burn…
            Disco inferno?
            NO…
            It will be Hells fire and Brimstone for thee and your lost disciples of “accusations” ya learned from your ideological daddy….

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            No it won’t.

          • $8194357

            Who is YOUR ideological daddy lap dog..
            We know Jesus isn’t your Spritual Guide, huh.
            1 Corinthians 12:1-4
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            Spiritual Gifts:
            Unity in Diversity

            1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren,
            I do not want you to be ignorant:
            2 You know that you were Gentiles,
            carried away to these dumb idols,
            however you were led.
            3 Therefore
            I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

            4 There are diversities of gifts,
            but the same Spirit.

          • PK

            No, actually in context, Neiman didn’t say what you’re accusing. It’s not a good idea to bear false witness.

          • $8194357

            This useful idiot knows how he twists things…
            He just loves the devils game so much he tingles all
            over at a chance to play it…A real addict…

  • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

    The day will come when we have a second Independence Day.

    • Tim Hines

      I’ve always been hopeful, (and have had many, rambling :-) conversations about the form the “second” revolution will take. To put it as succinctly as possible, people are pissed. For a variety of reasons, some very legitimate, some less so, but trying to collectively decide the “legitimacy” is a MUCH trickier process. Personally, I don’t see any difference between the INTENTS of the tea party movement and the occupy movement. People are fed up with the current status quo of government. The problem as I see it, the true “powers that be” are only too happy to watch these two factions go at each other with all the subtlety of a third grade sandbox fight, because if they WERE ever to set aside their differences and try to unite on making things better collectively, (A constitutional convention that clears the path for congressional term limits, a line item veto, and public campaign financing limits?) they would have a real “problem” on their hands. Truly, that’s why I feel so passionately about improving the discourse across party lines, because I feel its going to be the only way forward out of the current mess we are in…. But that’s just one man’s opinion…..

      • Roy_Bean

        “Personally, I don’t see any difference between the tea party movement and the occupy movement.”

        Allow me to point out a few differences. The TEA party movement is about less government interference in our lives, it’s about allowing people who work hard to benefit from the fruits of their labors. The TEA party is largely a group of people who have taken a day off work to express their views at a public gathering. They have typically left the venue cleaner than it was when they came and there has been little, if any, violence.

        The occupy movement is about more government taking the fruits of some people’s labors and giving it to people who choose not to labor. The occupy movement is largely a group of unemployed protesters looking for a place to hang out and maybe get a free meal. They have typically left the venue somewhere between an eyesore and a health hazard and mischief and mayhem is the order of the day.

        “Improving discourse across party lines” has come to mean compromising to the left, and that means digging the hole deeper. The way out of this mess isn’t forward down a path that doesn’t work, it’s getting back on the RIGHT track that we strayed from in the first place.

        • Tim Hines

          I can understand that under the current political “spin” mechanisms in place, that can be your interpretation. (And believe me, for a guy who called out another man’s “intent” the other day, I gotta respect that.) I guess my question for the morning would have to be, if it WERE at “face value”….Would it be worth even considering?

          • Roy_Bean

            No, it would not be worth considering a compromise with the occupy movement. There is not, and never has been compromise, there has only been appeasement. We never compromise to the right, we only give in to the left and we have gone too far already.

          • Tim Hines

            So, any thoughts to share on a “path forward”?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Try visiting Grim’s blog. He’s a true conservative who can have an intellectual debate with others who think differently, without resorting to the type of insults that typically fly to anyone who dares think differently than Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann.

          • jl

            Hannni- “…can have a debate…without resorting to the types of insults that typically fly to anyone who dares think differently than Palin or Bachmann.” As clueless Hanni issues his own insults ……

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            After 3 years of trying to have rational debate, I’ve completely given up on the tools of SAB. Let’s see if you can muster a rational conversation with Tim.

            I doubt it.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Then do us all a favor and go away. Don’t go away mad, just go away. Trust me, no one will miss you. Not even realtybasedrube.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Do you a favor? Not hardly. I will not allow you to promote your lies, misinformation and right wing extremism without a fight.

            The truth deserves a strong advocate, and that drives you insane that I am here to counter your nuttery.

          • LenYol

            The truth….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            What is your post of meaningless pictures supposed to argue? All you do is rant about anti-Jew conspiracies and talk about black separatism.

            What, in your mind, do you believe Obama is doing that was inspired by the reverend whose only mistake is to be angry about racists who have hurt blacks?

          • LenYol

            All the Muslim Marxist was taught while growing up and being mentored by racists, communists and anti Americans was hate for America and racism.The pictures are only meaningless to ignorant trolls, like you.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Again, what do you believe Obama is doing that was inspired by the reverend or the others that your conspiracy beliefs tell you to believe?

            If you don’t have any intelligent response, nobody will be surprised.

          • LenYol

            Why don’t you tell everyone what obama has done that has been a benefit to Americans. Tell the 10’s of millions who are employed, tell the 10’s of millions on food stamps, tell the 10’s of millions who are welfare. Tell the 30 million who he promised health insurance.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Putting aside, for the moment, that Bush was the true Food Stamp President, why don’t you haven any answer regarding your conspiracy theory beliefs in the Reverend? You have a lot of hate, but you have no answers.

            Typical Tea Party “Patriot”.

          • LenYol

            It’s not a conspiracy, it’s not a secret, it’s right out in the open.
            Lets put aside that your obama has added over 10 million to the food
            stamp rolls, and probably closer to 15 million, since taking office. Let’s put aside that his policies have
            caused employers to cut back hours on employees due to the high cost of
            his faux obamacare which he has now reneged on. As you already know,
            obama’s agenda is to make as many as possible dependent on the
            government. He’s following the teachings of his friends and mentors,
            socialists and communist who have proven their hate for America. He has
            embedded members of the Muslim Brotherhood, enemies of America within the government.

            I hate
            no one, not even a useless slug like you. I despise obama’s policies
            and his agenda.But at least an anti American such as yourself
            see’s eye to eye with him and agrees with his policies to bring America
            to it’s knees.

          • $8194357

            Got all your Alinsky targets
            ideologocaly lined up in a row….
            poi boi…..

          • $8194357

            atheist marxist social justice
            is a “false religion”
            poi boi…….

          • $8194357

            10X
            Barry and shark baits hero’s and mentors…

          • LenYol

            Even your alleged daddy can’t stand you and tells you to STFU. And he’s more of a moron than you are.

          • jl

            But I’m not debating Tim- it’s you. And your double standard.

          • $8194357

            The forked tongue of the serpant…

          • sbark

            ………a Liberal thinks its an insult just to be offered a diff. point of view……they cannot believe others just don’t blindly accept their ideology of failure.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, I can’t speak for everyone in the “liberal” camp, but I know from my own experience, there are some flaws in your over-generalization,,,,

          • two_amber_lamps

            Why? By in large in the mainstream when an alternate POV is mentioned the left immediately shrieks indignation and brands it as “homophobic, misogynistic (war on women in the more simplistic terms), and/or racist. Or some other thinly veiled Marxist class-warfare based argument….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Let’s hear about your hatred of Gays, in “logical” terms. Then tell us what you feel about women that earns you the label.

            Let’s hear it!

          • two_amber_lamps

            Lol… babbling nonsensically again Hanny-poo? Did you want to tell us about your big fat TAX LIEN “Mr.” William L. Bonilla II?

            “The second” sounds a bit pretentious but that’s what we expect from lil’ Hanny-panny… Brhahahahhahahaaa!

            HAWAII.GOV Bureau of Conveyances -Official Public
            Records
            Document
            Number R2007203358
            Recording Date
            Recording Date:
            Date instrument recorded.
            YYYY-MM-DD
            2007-11-21

            Document Category:
            Judgment/LienConveyanceMiscellaneousMortgageReleaseUniform
            Commercial Code
            Description

            NOTICE OF LIEN
            (INCLUDES COUNTY, FEDERAL & STATE TAX LIENS; MARITIME LIEN)

            Grantor Grantor:
            Party transferring
            interest.
            BONILLA WILLIAM
            L II
            Grantee Grantee:
            Party acquiring interest.
            HAWAII
            STATE-TAX

          • Tim Hines

            Why? Because in my experience, when using a “blanket generalization” such as this, it may offend some people unnecessarily who truly can’t be “painted by that brush” and that, in my opinion, is where a lot of our troubles start these days in the “information age”….I’m sorry that the world is not black and white, there are troubling, difficult things that we need to get worked out, but I’m interpreting what you are saying as not an “alternative point of view”, but rather an over-simplification….

          • two_amber_lamps

            If it wasn’t for the “information age” the abuses of the federal government wouldn’t even see the light of day thanks to the complicit “Walter Cronkeit” media. We’ve had to suffer the likes of liberals making all manner of smears against us and various politicians in the past, with the rejoiner that “debate or disagreement is patriotic” but seems that street doesn’t go both ways. The result? See my post above.

            Despite your claims to have been around here for a while, I can’t say I recall you… I’m more than happy to give you the benefit of the doubt til you prove otherwise.

            I can’t say you’re off to a good start especially allying yourself with the likes of Hannitized. But who knows, maybe you’ll redeem yourself.

            Meanwhile….

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkeL7MdbEY8

          • Tim Hines

            Was it really allying? So far, I believe I’ve complimented him once, chastised him once, and explained our differences once….Just my opinion, but isn’t that also how our democracy is supposed to work?

          • Tim Hines

            “Despite your claims to have been around here a long time, I can’t say I recall you”… Fair enough…While my history goes way back, my interest and frequency in participating in this forum ebbs and wanes…. I’ll describe it this way: I go so far back here that I can remember Rob describing to me that “This is just a blog, dude….” To his later changing the assessment to: “North Dakota’s most popular and influential political blog”….

          • Tim Hines

            So….Miss Amber? I’m not sure if you’ve been busy, just haven’t had the time to be back at the this blog, but I thought I’d check back with you and see if you were going to continue and have a response to my question? Because I couldn’t help but think to myself “Do continue…this should be good!”

          • two_amber_lamps

            I didn’t realize you had posed a question to me… by all means feel free to restate it.

          • Tim Hines

            It was in reference to your observation of my “alignment” with Hannitized, to which I think I countered with: I believe I complimented him once, chastised him once, and explained our differences once…Isn’t that supposed to be how our democracy should work?

          • two_amber_lamps

            You mean in terms of Hannitized’s mob-rule leftist democracy or in terms of our democratically appointed constitutional republic?

          • two_amber_lamps

            Frankly Miss Hines your relationship with Mr. Hannitized is quite inconsequential so far as I’m concerned. It seems you’re looking for some kind of endorsement from me to associate with him or not? By all means… do as you wish. Shall we refer to the Bill of Rights and it’s guarantee of freedom of association? Whew! I think you’re covered.

            BTW- are you going to ask a clear question sooner or later or continue to mewl about your relationship with Mr. Hanny-panny?

          • Tim Hines

            I’m sorry, got busy with other stuff right after you responded…I’m comfortable with my “association” if you are…I guess I was just generally interested in your opinion for the need, if any, of improved discourse in politics…You can either go historically, currently, or with an eye towards the future…But I’m going to bed now, won’t be around much at all tomorrow, so if you don’t hear back from me, I’m not dropping the ball….

          • two_amber_lamps

            Well I’m glad to see you’re entertained/tenacious but I’m afraid your plodding conversational style has grown tiresome… work on it.

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, I will… And since we’ve moved on to giving pointers: “Miss Hines”? That’s the best ya got??? ;-)

          • two_amber_lamps

            Debate come naturally for some, others not so much. College classes and books on the subject. Practice, practice, practice….

            Tottle-oooo for now Dunkin Heinz….

          • Tim Hines

            Well, I won’t go into my own accomplishments in the debate department, but I think I’m qualified to go toe to toe with you miss amber, if you were so inclined to do much more than “sophomoric” name calling…Actually, from my many years of experience in that regard, trust me “sophomoric” is really an elevated adjective to apply to it….i’ve had much more clever “insults” hurled at me by people much physically younger than you…..

          • Tim Hines

            and, I’ll apologize now if that was too “plodding” for you….

          • two_amber_lamps

            Boredom inducing example 1:

            You’ve used the term “sophomoric” in the course of the last couple days more than Sean Hannity uses the word “specificity.”

            (yawn)

            Secondly, you started this catty name-calling when you referred to me as “Miss.” Worry not though, I’m more than content to play caustic. Ask Mr. Ellinas, I’ll simply add you to the same list I have reserved for that miscreant if you wish.

            And for the record, you have no idea how old I am… nor shall you.

          • Tim Hines

            So…two_amber_lamps: I had to think long and hard even if I wanted to reply to you on this, but I’ll give it one last shot, and decide my next move from there…(but be forewarned, this may get boring and/or plodding for you) You perhaps feign indignation that I had the audacity to refer to you as “Miss Amber” when the first contact between us was from you to me that said “Leave now while you still have a shred of dignity intact”? …..Head scratching example number 2: You allude to give me debate tips, yet compare my use of the word “sophomoric” to Hannity’s use of the word specificity? Really? In case you TRULY didn’t get the reference while I was using it, it was in replying to a dig that Flamemeister threw at me, and I was just hurling it back to him…I actually believe you know that, and am just throwing it out there to watch how I react…fair enough, I don’t have anything more pressing going on right now, so I can take five minutes to clarify it…this time….As far as putting me on the “llst” you usually reserve for Ellinas, you do what you feel you have to do, I’ll just letcha know now, don’t expect the same style of responses from me… and lastly, my lack of knowledge of your true age does NOT detract from my earlier stated opinion of “I’ve had much more clever “insults” hurled at me by people much physically younger than you…..”

          • two_amber_lamps

            Uhm… yep… hey do your friends call you Whiskers?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrFUBKCONfs

          • Tim Hines

            Not to my knowledge…(Or, at least not to my face ;-) Now me: With a projected personality and comedic sensibilities you display in public…..Do you have any friends???

          • $8194357

            OWS’er
            2 tru4 skool.

          • SusanBeehler

            Why repeat posting such disgusting photos?

          • LenYol

            How about this one of obama’s good friend and neighbor?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Yes, another meaningless picture as it relates to Obama. Let’s hear an intelligent argument.

          • LenYol

            Of course you approve of the association between obama and a true hater of America who sets off explosives to kill Americans. Are you friends with him too?

          • PK

            Actually William Ayers is on record saying Obama is a war criminal and should be prosecuted. Even a terrorist thinks Obama is out of control.

        • WOOF

          The TeaParty is a wholly owned subsidiary of Corporatism.
          Sheep willing to die for the shepherds taking them to market.
          Sacrificial lambs bled on the alter of the shepherds tax reduction.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Bingo. Most conservatives use more handouts than any other group. Hell, the entire military establishment is one big tax payer hand out. Most conservatives have lead a life of mostly military employment, without that hand out they would have to try to survive in the real world. Most conservatives are sheep…sheep don’t do so well in the real world.

          • jl

            “Military is one big tax payer hand out..” You mean that constitutionally mandated one? Are you saying the men and women in the military don’t do any work for their money? “Hand outs”, in the normal sense of the word, is given to people who don’t work for it. Another brilliant post by Hanni.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            That’s the mentality you folks use to describe state workers and politicians, why should your tax payer salary be excluded? Of course I don’t think any of them are tax payer hand-outs, but you nitwits don’t understand anything unless it’s at your level.

            None of this distracts from the fact that a majority of Conservatives are on the tax payer dole.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            nonsense. Most conservatives are the ones paying the majority of taxes that keep the country going. There are “makers” and “takers”. Takers vote Democrat.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            The majority of conservatives receive a government check, most of them military or ex military…taking the public tax payer hand out.

          • jl

            Let’s see, yesterday you said: “of course I don’t think any of them are tax payer hand-outs.” Then, today- “..majority of conservatives receive a government check, most of them military or ex military..taking the tax payer hand-out.” Well, which is it? It’s hard, isn’t it, when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • two_amber_lamps

            That little leftard mercenary will argue any side of the argument it thinks it can win. It’ll argue both sides if it thinks you’re not paying attention. It howls to fill the void of it’s otherwise vacuous and meaningless existence.

          • $8194357

            The plane boss
            the plane…….

          • LenYol

            No one likes him, everyone just laughs at him and craps on his face, which he thoroughly relishes..

          • LenYol

            “JESUS AND THE DEMOCRAT”

            A Republican, in a wheelchair, entered a restaurant one afternoon and asked the waitress for a cup of coffee. The Republican looked across the restaurant and asked, “Is that Jesus sitting over there?”
            The waitress nodded “yes,” so the Republican requested that she give Jesus a cup of coffee, on him.he next patron to come in was a Libertarian, with a hunched back. He shuffled over to a booth, painfully
            sat down, and asked the waitress for a cup of hot tea. He also lanced across the restaurant and asked, “Is that Jesus, over there?”
            The waitress nodded, so the Libertarian asked her to give Jesus a cup of hot tea, “My treat.”
            The third patron to come into the restaurant was a Democrat on crutches. He hobbled over to a booth, sat down, and hollered, “Hey there honey! How’s about getting me a cold mug of Miller Light?”
            He too looked across the restaurant and asked, “Isn’t that God’s boy
            over there?”The waitress nodded, so the Democrat directed her to give Jesus a cold beer. “On my bill,” he said loudly.
            As Jesus got up to leave, he passed by the Republican, touched him, and said, “For your kindness, you are healed.” The Republican felt the strength come back into his legs, got up, and began to praise the Lord.
            Jesus passed by the Libertarian, touched him, and said, “For your kindness, you are healed.” The Libertarian felt his back straightening up, and he raised his hands, and he too began to praise the Lord.
            Then, Jesus walked towards the Democrat, just smiling. The Democrat jumped up and yelled, “Don’t touch me … I’m on disability.”

            For Those Who Understand, No Explanation Is Necessary.

            For Those Who Do Not Understand, No Explanation Is Possible

            .

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Another meaningless, empty post by you. That’s all you’re good for.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, I can’t say I vote straight “D” every time, but…I wouldn’t consider myself a “taker” so I can say from my own experience, there are some flaws with your generalization….

          • LenYol

            HAWAII.GOV Bureau of Conveyances -Official Public
            Records
            Document
            Number R2007203358
            Recording Date
            Recording Date:
            Date instrument recorded.
            YYYY-MM-DD
            2007-11-21

            Document Category:
            Judgment/LienConveyanceMiscellaneousMortgageReleaseUniform
            Commercial Code
            Description

            NOTICE OF LIEN
            (INCLUDES COUNTY, FEDERAL & STATE TAX LIENS; MARITIME LIEN)

            Grantor Grantor:
            Party transferring
            interest.
            BONILLA WILLIAM
            L II
            Grantee Grantee:
            Party acquiring interest.
            HAWAII
            STATE-TAX

          • JoeMN

            You dare to compare military pay to the often obscene salary and bennies awarded to government employees ?
            Is this guy for real ?
            Or is he simply a paid stooge.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So in your small mind there is a difference between the salaries of government employees and the military?

            What would you know about military pay?

          • mickey_moussaoui

            …said the “boy” who couldn’t pay his property tax.

          • LenYol

            He claims he could have paid it, he just wanted to be a true dem/lib/communist and NOT pay it.

          • LenYol

            ” Most conservatives use more handouts than any other group”

            Claims the documented liar and tax cheat, smallwillie bonilla.

            HAWAII.GOV Bureau of Conveyances -Official Public
            Records
            Document
            Number R2007203358
            Recording Date
            Recording Date:
            Date instrument recorded.
            YYYY-MM-DD
            2007-11-21

            Document Category:
            Judgment/LienConveyanceMiscellaneousMortgageReleaseUniform
            Commercial Code
            Description

            NOTICE OF LIEN
            (INCLUDES COUNTY, FEDERAL & STATE TAX LIENS; MARITIME LIEN)

            Grantor Grantor:
            Party transferring
            interest.
            BONILLA WILLIAM
            L II
            Grantee Grantee:
            Party acquiring interest.
            HAWAII
            STATE-TAX

          • mickey_moussaoui

            woof,
            The tea Party are mostly retired people who remember what America used to be like before you liberal retards contaminated the system.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            What would you know about Americans, and what they think? You are Canadian.

          • JoeMN

            Occupy is a wholly owned subsidiary of worldwide socialist, currency manipulating, multi billionaire Soros Inc.

            http://www.humanevents.com/2011/10/21/george-soros-funds-occupy-wall-street/

          • $8194357

            10X

            It is what it is.
            Cloward/Piven cannon fodder for the cause.

          • sbark

            Problem with your line of thought is that the Mega Corpts are in bed with the big govt left………they use the waves of govt regs to prevent competitive entry into their markets from small efficient start ups……….

            All you have to do is go to the campaign contribution sites——-Bill Gates Buffet, Heintz Jobs, Rockefellers, G Sachs, JPMogan etc etc………all line the pockets of the left…………and don’t come with the millions of small illegal CCard donations…..foreign money as a warped stat.

            The small business Corptns (under 500 employees) are the donars to the GOP

          • WOOF

            You’re thinking with lies sbark

            Money, money money money.
            http://www.opensecrets.org

          • PK

            The Republican establishment is also funded by the robber barons like the Rockefellers, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, energy combines, the military industrial complex, medical industrial complex, etc. They fund both parties, which is why the government always gets bigger and further in debt no matter what party is in control. They spent over a billion dollars on both Romney and Obama, so to say small business funds the GOP alone isn’t accurate.

      • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

        “Personally, I don’t see any difference between the tea party movement and the occupy movement.”

        How ever is one to take you at all seriously?

        • Tim Hines

          If it’s about their “intent”? Not their ideologies? You tell me?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            No, you tell me. The OWSers as a group ranged from street bums to whatever. They stunk up wherever they were. I am sure there were those of righteous intent, but if there were, they left early. Finding righteous “intents” and “ideology” among the OWSers is like ransacking rotten corpses for a couple of gold teeth.

          • Tim Hines

            “You Tell Me”….I THOUGHT I already did? (See above) And I guess at this point, I’ll have to leave it with: While I respect ANYONE’S right to lay out their opinion (and I’m getting more hopeful in this blog’s potential) Please try to understand my reluctance to get sucked down a vortex debating too much with a guy with an emerald hued avatar and a “nom de blog”.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Thank God!

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, definitely will haveta be one of those “agree to disagree” moments….

          • sbark

            There should have been a lot more of those “moments” over the last 75 years, instead of Conservatism appeasing and capitulating to the left and its track record of 100% failure, it needed to fight “free stuff” with all its ability……..our “friends across the isle” have led us to the abyss, but their ideology doesn’t have a right turn signal available.

          • Tim Hines

            I understand the frustration….I just can’t help thinking, back in the 80’s, during the Reagan years, and the president’s record of working with Tip O’Neil…Didn’t you feel it was a much more productive political time than what we’re experiencing now?

          • HG

            Tim,
            You’re a fan of Reagan?

          • Tim Hines

            I’m a fan of getting things done…I’m a fan of anyone being truly honest…So, if you look back at Reagan’s record, (and take into consideration how he is almost canonized within the conservative movement) I just don’t get what SOME conservative’s issues are on a lot of today’s problems.

          • HG

            I agree Reagan got things done and was an honest man.
            What issue on what specific problem do you not get about some of today’s conservatives?

          • Tim Hines

            Nothing specific that I believe that can be translated to this forum without falling down an unproductive “rabbit hole” of tenuous, tedious debate…Just an overall feeling that whatever once made this country the greatest in history is in danger, and I felt the need to throw my two cents worth in on “North Dakota’s most popular and influential political blog”.

          • HG

            “Whatever” is broad and uncertain. As a conservative I’m certain that what made this country great was God-given inalienable rights and a general consensus on that premise that required self-government. We’re in danger because we’re likely irreparably divided on many issues along this very line.

          • Tim Hines

            I feel this country has repeatedly risen to meet the challenges from many trying, difficult situations….Now, in the advent of “the information age”…. The “24 hour news cycle” that forces the media to continually broadcast “news”…..and, in my opinion, a political strategy from both major parties that at times doesn’t always focus on “what’s right”, only on what can be boiled down to a two minute sound bite to persuade voters….all aid in the change in political discourse I’ve witnessed in my lifetime….It’s just my opinion that we are now facing another challenge, and I’m just thinking out loud about what I think we could do about it…..

          • HG

            We have met challenges, but don’t recall those challenges being along the lines I mentioned. We are undoubtedly facing quite another challenge in our experiment in government. It will be met and liberty will prevail. What the nation will look like remains to be seen.

            I couldn’t agree more that both parties bear much of the blame.

          • Tim Hines

            “I couldn’t agree more that both parties bear much of the blame”…Yep, I couldn’t agree more either! And, like I’ve said before, I’m just “thinking out loud” and throwing in my two cents about what’s a clearer? path forward….

          • HG

            Well, an improved dialogue might work if we could agree that limited gov’t is the foundation on which a free and fair society exists. This is the political bond which our nation was united upon. Without this, how could any dialogue repair the division?

          • two_amber_lamps

            And therein lies the rub…. Statism (liberalism, socialism, democratic progressivism) purports an overarching and onerously large government as the panacea to all society’s woes….

          • Tim Hines

            Which brings me back to the Reagan and Tip years….What was different then? I have my opinions of what has caused SOME, but not all of the problems….Again, just ‘thinking out loud” about what can be done about it….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Before you start there, why don’t you tell him how much of your belief in “government” starts with your personal interpretations of The Bible?

            Why not be honest with him that your religious beliefs first and foremost affect how you look at politics and the laws that are created by them, putting your dishonest attempt to hi-jack the word “liberty” aside, for the moment?

          • Tim Hines

            Just my opinion, but wouldn’t improved dialogue (on BOTH sides) have to come first to make the necessary repairs?

          • $8194357

            A one way (left) ratchet….

          • Tim Hines

            Truly? I don’t consider it “one way left”…Nor do I consider myself strictly democrat or republican…Honestly, I would consider myself “Libertarian” if not for my desire to have one more constitutional convention that put in place congressional term limits, a presidential line item veto, and maybe explore a public campaign financing option (but, not completely a deal breaker unlike items 1 and 2) I realize this may open up a string of criticism, but I think I could make a short, succinct defense on my opinions…

          • $8194357

            Maybe?
            It is not about “you”.
            :-)
            But simply the fact that the Founders gave us a “limited power central government”
            rule of Constitutional Law Republic
            that has been left behind over the last 200 years, for soviet central planning oligarchy of the elites
            with globalist one world communist new world order agendas.

          • Tim Hines

            “It is not about you”…Nope, never said it was, or should be ;-) …I’m just throwing it out there, you’re countering with your two cents worth back… and we do know from experience that we just have two pretty much divergent outlooks….fair enough!

          • $8194357

            Has DC ever disbanded its size, cost, or power
            over the populace in any area?
            Or has it grown ever larger, expensive,
            and more intrusive and controlling?
            Ever leftist soviet ratchet that is a far cry from The Constitutional limited to the few and defined powers that the Founders gave us…
            Leftist, soviet central planning pre determined outcome ratchet.
            CLICK…CLICK…Never to loosen its grip, lose it power,
            or limit itself, never moving back to the right where we started, huh…

          • Tim Hines

            “Has DC ever disbanded its size, cost, or power
            over the populace in any area?”…Nope, you get absolutely no argument from me that the government scope, reach, budget, and egos have grown out of control…But…That’s why why I’m tossing out the hypothetical “constitutional convention” solution, that also has never been tried before…I realize some people solemnly swear and defend the constitution as it is, and I have to respect that…But we’ve already made some amendments to it for the better…I guess I’m just curious as to whether you think that would be an allright hypothetical pursuit to maybe clean up this mess?

          • $8194357

            After a Constitutional convention?

            Barry care would look good compared to what these
            Globalists communist new world order have on the agendas….IMO….(Cuba/Venezuela come to mind)

            Be careful what ya wish for…

          • JoeMN

            It must take quite a leap of faith to be willing to submit the constitution to this same motley crew of ego’s in DC
            It’s a near certainty that some would see this as the perfect opportunity to enshrine this liberal insanity for all time.
            The time for a successful constitutional convention would be after public realization of failure, with the cause of it all run out with torches and pitchforks.

          • Tim Hines

            Admittedly, it WOULD take a GIANT leap of faith, and I’ve already identified myself as the “cockeyed optimist” in the crowd…Maybe it’s just because I’ve spent almost my entire life living in ND, and have had a lot of fun, productive political chats across “party lines” in a variety of settings…I have NO faith in any politician, but I’m not ready to throw in the towel on the majority of the people…I’m also hopeful enough that as a parent with an eye to being a grandparent someday, it wouldn’t have to come down to another civil war before people would even consider the option…

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            These folks don’t have the mental capacity to manage or tackle such a question. Now watch them spin.

          • Tim Hines

            Hopefully not?

          • two_amber_lamps

            Spin? Spin what Wee Willy?

            HAWAII.GOV Bureau of Conveyances -Official Public
            Records
            Document
            Number R2007203358
            Recording Date
            Recording Date:
            Date instrument recorded.
            YYYY-MM-DD
            2007-11-21

            Document Category:
            Judgment/LienConveyanceMiscellaneousMortgageReleaseUniform
            Commercial Code
            Description

            NOTICE OF LIEN
            (INCLUDES COUNTY, FEDERAL & STATE TAX LIENS; MARITIME LIEN)

            Grantor Grantor:
            Party transferring
            interest.
            BONILLA WILLIAM
            L II
            Grantee Grantee:
            Party acquiring interest.
            HAWAII
            STATE-TAX

          • ellinas1

            Spin this proof: “Tsk, tsk, boy-buggerer, name-calling shall get you nowhere!”

          • two_amber_lamps

            Accusing others of what you do AGAIN??

            “…but everybody knows who post’s under the moniker ellinas1″

            Q: That would be a pederast with homosexual tendency?

            Ellinas: “My point exactly.”

            1/3/13

            But then this is what we’ve come to expect….

          • ellinas1

            “It’s a good idea to stick your dick in the ass of a 12 year old boy.” two_Amber_lamps, July 20th, 2012

          • two_amber_lamps

            Making up silly quotes implicating others for what you do?

            You and your lil butt buddy Hanny’s capacity for habitual lying has been duly noted, you may now both return to your regularly scheduled irrelevance.

          • ellinas1

            POPD

          • two_amber_lamps

            Still pooped nasty?

            Carry on with your irrelevancy!

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Oh come on greek, you like boys and you know it

          • ellinas1

            Oh come on mickey, you like boys and you know it

          • mickey_moussaoui

            wow, the rubber/glue defense. With a razor sharp witt like that, You should be representing the prosecution against Zimmerman.

          • ellinas1

            Oh come on mickey, you like boys and you know it

          • two_amber_lamps

            No original material, all you have is regurgitation… oh yeah, and pederasty. Lies duly noted, continue with your irrelevance… yadda yadda.

          • ellinas1

            SOYF

          • two_amber_lamps

            LDN, CWYI.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Were you under the delusion that talking about little boys was an example of your razor sharp wit, Canadian?

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Hey, how come that guy has his hand up hannitized’s ass?
            lol

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Is this the level of maturity you were hoping to raise the bar to, hmmm?

          • two_amber_lamps
          • ellinas1

            Amber likes to felate little boys, and she always lies….

            http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200908/a7cc5186f1a07d6813f6f5df8c7bca9e.jpg

          • two_amber_lamps

            Says the lying pederast…. (yawn)

            LDN, CWYI.

          • ellinas1

            Me lie?
            Why you…..you lying, cunning and conniving witch
            who always has a vaginal twitch!

            “It’s a good idea to stick your dick in the ass of a 12 year old boy.” – two_Amber_lamps, July 20th, 2012
            POPD chester.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Says the indignant lying pederast…. (yawn)

            LDN, CWYI.

          • $8194357

            Posted:
            03 Jul 2013
            09:01 PM PDT

            Let every nation know,
            whether it wishes us well or ill,
            that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship,
            support any friend, oppose any foe,
            to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
            -John F. Kennedy
            PS…
            Both foreign or domestic !

        • PK

          One thing they have in common is that they were both co-opted by the establishment. The Democrats took over Occupy, and the Republicans took over the TEA Party. The multi-national corporations that spend billions of dollars collectively funding the PACs and use their media outfits to get their mercenaries elected into office certainly aren’t going to let some extremists throw a wrench into the machine. Everyone should declare Independence from the establishment political parties, that George Washington warned about, and swear allegiance to the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            There was an attempt to hijack the Tea Party, but in my estimation it failed. It is now becoming very clear that the Republican elites are repudiating the Tea Party even if it means suicide for them All the Tea Party People I know think the Republican Party stinks.

          • PK

            True, at the grassroots level the TEA Party is still alive, but there are establishment infiltrators who have positioned themselves as supposed “leaders”. Take Glen Beck for example. He demonized the TEA Party and Ron Paul supporters as terrorists a few years ago. Now he’s completely flipped the script because Freedom has become popular. He’s still up to the same old divide and conquer game as before, but now it’s directed specifically towards the Liberty movement.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You also believe that someday there will be camps for people like you, and that the Liberals are working on some big conspiracy to round you all up, you said you knew this was coming not by listening to right wing radio, or reading Glen Beck but because of your ability to “read the signs” and through observation.

            Please don’t try to pretend that you are some form of rational person who can debate ideas, you’re not.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Please don’t pretend to be some kind of rational person who can debate ideas when you can’t even do your civic duty and PAY YOUR TAXES.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I pay more in taxes than you make per year. We’ve gone over this already.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Irrelevant to the conversation and unprovable unless you’d like to publish a copy of your W-2. And yes we went over this before and you lied about paying off your tax lien…

            Mahalo for your bulls$%t!

          • mickey_moussaoui

            lol. Delusional. Did you pay your property tax, liar?

          • LenYol

            HAWAII.GOV Bureau of Conveyances -Official Public
            Records
            Document
            Number R2007203358
            Recording Date
            Recording Date:
            Date instrument recorded.
            YYYY-MM-DD
            2007-11-21
            Says the proven and documented liar and tax cheat.
            You just love attention, any attention at all.
            Document Category:
            Judgment/LienConveyanceMiscellaneousMortgageReleaseUniform
            Commercial Code
            Description

            NOTICE OF LIEN
            (INCLUDES COUNTY, FEDERAL & STATE TAX LIENS; MARITIME LIEN)

            Grantor Grantor:
            Party transferring
            interest.
            BONILLA WILLIAM
            L II
            Grantee Grantee:
            Party acquiring interest.
            HAWAII
            STATE-TAX

          • mickey_moussaoui

            wittle willy bonilly, aka handiwipe
            lib tax cheat
            loser

          • LenYol

            It’s the accomplishment that he’s most proud of.

          • LenYol

            Says the tiny troll with the documented tax lien.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            How did the Democrats take over OWS? That’s completely false.

          • PK

            http://rt.com/usa/soros-wall-street-movement-893/

            It was most likely funded by George Soros, who is a common contributor of capital to leftist ideologies. Then since Democratic operative like to hire Communists and radical Democrats to demonstrate, the Occupy movement was a legitimate movement in the logic alone, but was actually started, or possibly co-opted, by the Democrats to discredit any movement against all the multi-billion dolllar, multi-national corporations and the elected government servants who gave them trillions of dollars in bailouts, then let these banks take American’s assets they held liens on, instead of just giving that money to the American People. It was what the military would call a psychological operation to alleviate public outrage against the bailouts, because most Americans are terrified to voice their opinion when they might get associated with an odd group. The Democrats and the Republicans are on the same team silly, and we’re not on it.

          • $8194357

            10X PK……..

            Follow the globalist international progressive money trail……………

          • Tim Hines

            “because most Americans are terrified to voice their opinion when they might get associated with an odd group.”….Well, just from my perspective, I can say, “Not me”…(and believe me, this is one of the odder groups I’ve encountered in my lifetime…) ;-)

          • $8194357

            Soros OSI, bought and paid for extension, of his wholly owned subsidiary known as the DNC…………….
            follow the international progressive money trail fool.

        • mickey_moussaoui

          flamemaster…no one takes that idiot seriously

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Where did he come from? And when is he going?

          • Tim Hines

            Or a better question may be: Why do you care?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Glad you asked. For about the same reason I care about trash being dumped in the street.

          • Tim Hines

            So…Mr. “Meister”….Where to begin? Honestly, your trash in the street analogy is about as good as any I can make about why I am back here to SAB fairly regularly as well, so we both must feel passionately about our political views. I don’t know if you have a “piece” of this blog, and you’re offended that I called into question the business model. Maybe you’re upset that I can call you out on your being cloaked in “internet anonymity” and I’m letting it all hang out there under my real name…Maybe I’ve just bruised your ego a bit (let’s be honest, anyone who picks a monicker of “Flamemeister” thinks he’s gotta be a pretty good verbal sparring partner) Maybe you truly don’t see my point that all this vicious name calling and distraction ISN’T doing our country any good in my opinion, and you prefer to operate under the status quo…I DO know, that so far, for everything I’ve talked about on this blog for the last week, I truly haven’t encountered too much in the way of thoughtful discourse, and that’s all right….My understanding is that is the purpose of”Say Anything” and sometimes venting has to be done…I’m just thinking that after 8 years or so of this silliness, don’t you think it’s time to re-invent?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Business model? I do this for entertainment purposes only. The stale and hackneyed “internet anonymity” issue. Please! This is so old and moldy only a tyro could possible still be bringing it up. There are excellent reasons for some people to have anonymity on a blog. You can believe it or not, but I rip people who know me in much the same ways—and I do it when sober.

            You may review my replies to others and you will see that they run the gamut from gutter scatological snipes to semi-scholarly analyses. I find it useful and fun to use liberal tactics to make people pay a price for their stupidity. I believe that this might have had some small influence on the quality of this blog; in any case, it has definitely reduced the number of utterly moronic responses I get from half-witted trolls.

            Whether “flamemeister” reflects special skill at this, I leave to others to decide.

            No, there is not much thoughtful discourse on this blog, but then there is not much thoughtful discourse anywhere. So? Start by being an example.

            “…all this vicious name-calling and distraction [?] ISN’T doing our country any good…” Jesus! Please! Call me nasty names but don’t throw sophomoric platitudes at me! Arrrrrgh! I’m melting … I’m melting …

          • Tim Hines

            Just my opinion, I’d have to say “sophomoric platitudes” would be a subjective call in the eye of the beholder….We’ve probably reached another “agree to disagree” moment, don’tcha think?

          • two_amber_lamps

            Cut your losses and run while you still can and retain a modest shred of dignity…

            (yawn)

          • Tim Hines

            I will, if and when I feel like I’m losing, or if there is nothing left to contribute?

          • Tim Hines

            Also, just FYI…At this stage of my life, I prefer honesty over a subjective call of “dignity” any day….

          • two_amber_lamps

            By all means… DOOOOO continue!

            http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

          • $8194357

            Mr. Old and in the way? is still looking to argue both sides of the debate to show “his” personal wisdoms and insights, huh….

            A double minded self important no it all
            know nothing, still in training, but using his real name?.

          • Tim Hines

            So, I realize it ends in a question mark, but I can’t even fathom a reply to this…..

          • $8194357

            Take a side, perhaps…
            The wishy washy middle of the fence is “lukewarm”
            Jesus said:
            “I would that you be hot or cold,
            as the luke warm I will spew from my mouth”…
            Now that is not entirely a bad thing with perspective….
            Being spit out…
            One will cool of and grow cold
            or realize what is at stake and get hot again, huh.
            Jesus cant turn the cold Hot and keep the Hot, Hot…
            So who’s kingdom are ya going to serve?
            The Heavenly one of God.
            Or the cold and dark one on earth of the devils?

          • Tim Hines

            Just my opinion, and I thought I HAD stated it repeatedly, I AM taking a side for my country…I said it on another thread, but maybe it bears repeating: SOME of the ideas I’ve read being thrown around here in a “revolutionary” context, sound to me, from a historical perspective, that they are more akin to another Civil War…and, I believe I ended it with “and at the risk of appearing too glaringly earnest, that scares the crap out of me”…

          • $8194357

            Some times ya have to fight the “domestic” enemy
            of Liberty and the Rule of Constitutional Law…
            Seperation was and should still be an option from a facist form of central planning tyranny of the majority ideology…That is what the Founders gave us…The Rule of Law complete with secession from tyranny.
            Soviet central planning rule of democratic majority does not a Constitutional Republic make, huh.

          • Tim Hines

            Again, at the risk of just having to repeat myself, you are certainly entitled to that opinion…I see that you hold your beliefs strongly and passionately, as do I….I just don’t think I have anything more to contribute that would aid in a productive outcome of this discussion…

          • $8194357

            Ya…That is what folks been tellin ya, huh…

          • Tim Hines

            Well, “what folks been tellin ya” is, in my opinion, how we ALL arrive at our own personal belief systems….

          • Tim Hines

            So….. then why did you feel the need to try to reassure him?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I told you……they are a waste of time. Better just to call them out on what they are, and truly identify their political objectives and position.

            They are nut-wing radicals.

          • LenYol

            Poor tiny smallwillie, another night staying up all alone with just his computer. Speaking of being “called out” for what you are…..

            HAWAII.GOV Bureau of Conveyances -Official Public
            Records
            Document
            Number R2007203358
            Recording Date
            Recording Date:
            Date instrument recorded.
            YYYY-MM-DD
            2007-11-21

            Document Category:
            Judgment/LienConveyanceMiscellaneousMortgageReleaseUniform
            Commercial Code
            Description

            NOTICE OF LIEN
            (INCLUDES COUNTY, FEDERAL & STATE TAX LIENS; MARITIME LIEN)

            Grantor Grantor:
            Party transferring
            interest.
            BONILLA WILLIAM
            L II
            Grantee Grantee:
            Party acquiring interest.
            HAWAII
            STATE-TAX

          • Tim Hines

            Nope, gotta disagree Hannitized….My whole purpose here is that the discourse in politics should improve, and the major theme is “If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem” and I’m sorry to be blunt, but a lot of what I see you write, I consider “part of the problem” as well….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            If you think your assessment is supposed to make me realize something I haven’t…..you really aren’t paying attention. Not only that, but your flat wrong.

            If you were a farmer, and food was sparse and the population was dying out, would you decide to try to plant food on infertile soil where it never rained and no natural water resource could be found? Or, would you try to find a fertile piece of land where water was available?

            I think your idea is a noble one, but your cause is a lost one at SAB.

            This site spreads misinformation, lies and propaganda. If you want to do some real good, provide facts, information and argument to counter the destruction they are doing. Someone might read it and mistakenly get the proper information, weather they want to admit to themselves or not.

            Most of the reason why these SAB fools are so angry is because the Democrats around this site give them facts that they rather not know, or deliberately ignore.

            Take Rob’s post on drunk driving laws for example. He insists that despite the fact that the drunk driving death rate percentage has been declining since the 80’s, it’s irrelevant because the population is increasing and more accidents occur. His weak argument is that he believes the population is static, so therefore the number of deaths should never increase, even if the percentage rate is decreasing for drunks, while the rate for non alcoholic deaths increase.

            These types of facts need to come out….there is no debating facts like this. If you think you are going to penetrate their thick skulls…..you’re just planting in infertile soil, where there is no water.

          • Tim Hines

            Very well written! I just think we are on two divergent missions, that’s all….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I understand. Best of luck, and enjoy.

            I’m going to continue putting out the facts to counter the misinformation, propaganda or outright lies, when they come. I will continue to pepper those comments with the type of respect they show to others, and reflect their own mentality and application of “logic” back to them.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Make sure when you mention facts you designate them as “facts” or perhaps facts*** since what you MEAN to say is liberal propaganda…

            We’d hate to see people confuse your “facts” with truth.

          • $8194357

            10X
            Regurgitated leftist ideological B/$…………….

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        Well said, however you aren’t going to be able to get that kind of interaction on this blog.

        This blog consists of little more than a few right wing extremists who want the echo chamber, not a discussion of ideas. That’s how our country was founded, on a discussion of liberal ideas and an intellectual look at history and what works in government. The conservatives here are nothing like the very liberal minded founding fathers of yesterday.

        • Tim Hines

          I’ve met (and am related to) many fine small town ND people…. We can actually have a pretty good time trying “to solve the worlds problems ;-) in a lot of different settings. Call me a cockeyed optimist, I’m not ready to throw in the towel and get cynical, jaded, and ultimately defeated….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I don’t think those folk in ND are SAB regulars.

            By all means, have a good time trying to get through. I’ll be here to endorse any good idea and valid criticism you offer in the direction of the Democrats or the left…you won’t get the same from the others.

            Best of luck, enjoy. :)

          • two_amber_lamps

            And those shall be the ONLY criticisms you shall endorse… now go pay your taxes.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Is that you making that loud sucking sound hanni?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Tell me more about those camps the liberals are planning to put people like you in? Tell me how you concluded that based on observation.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            What? You don’t want to talk about your observations and conclusions about the conspiracies you told us about, after Obama’s second election?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            As even you might know, Prince among dullards, it can be looked up on this blog. How long have you been blogging or, like other lower life forms, you just lack long-term memory? Then it’s not your fault.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I know what you said, I can easily cut and paste your conspiracy theories and words………but I want to know why you feel your observations cause you to believe the Liberals are going to put you into a concentration camp, of sorts? Why all the talk of fleeing the country?

          • mickey_moussaoui

            No one cares if you are here. Seriously. No one cares.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Oh, let him stick around… we’d miss our favorite blog roach/psychological punching bag.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You beg for me to go away, then claim no on cares. If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t beg for me to go away.

            Truth is, you can’t handle the truth. I call you nutters out on your BS every chance I get. Drives you nuts.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            You, hanniturd,
            still have that reading comprehension problem. I have never begged you to do anything. I simply said “leave, if you don’t like it here”.

            You are a weak minded delusional POS. Nothing more. You need therapy.

          • LenYol

            Poor smallwillie, all alone for another night with his TV and computer, can’t you tell that he wrote that after he watched “A Few Good Men?”

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You said “please do us a favor and leave”. That’s begging….you wouldn’t know how to use the word please any other way.

            If you want to argue that the DUI laws haven’t reduced drunk driving deaths in our country….bring it. Let’s see what you’ve got, Canadian!

            So far, all we get from you is chatter about child molestation, poop and conspiracy theories….and lots of whining.

          • $8194357

            Please is being polite, fool…
            Pay your taxes please….
            Dead weight on society, much?

          • mickey_moussaoui

            please eat shit and die. take that any way you wish

          • LenYol

            He enjoys eating sh$t, that’s what he comes here for. He loves when everyone craps on his face.

          • LenYol

            No one cares, no one likes you, you can leave and no one would miss you.

        • Tim Hines

          Also, for what it’s worth, I’m not exactly a “newbie” to this blog….. I’ve read it and engaged in it on and off for years, under the “nom de blogs” DeuceSoliloquy and Old&InTheWay…. but I really am enjoying the feeling of “ownership” being logged in under my real name…..

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Fantastic….wait till they contact your employer or start stalking you and your family.

          • Tim Hines

            Lol…these days, anyone who would think of taking on either a physical or verbal confrontation with my son, does so at their own peril…..I have no worries so far with my employers, as I stand firmly by everything I write, and I believe I can defend what I’ve done here the past week….If a problem WERE to arise? I would assess it then, and react accordingly…

        • mickey_moussaoui

          Then go away. Find another blog to pollute. Or is your problem more one where you need to irritate others to feel significant? What you really need is a good therapist. Someone who can help you get over this inferiority complex.

          • two_amber_lamps

            It’s hard not to have an inferiority complex when Hanny-panny stands knee high to a garden troll….

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I’m far more significant than you are. So why go there? Nobody debates you, you don’t even say anything that’s worthy of generating a debate or discussion.

      • Tim Hines

        I edited the above to clarify that I was only comparing the similarities in my opinion of both groups intent.

      • Tim Hines

        Oh, man….I HOPE I’m not having another Discuss issue, another comment I left seems to have gone missing, so I’m sorry, I’ll have to try this again: I edited the above comment to show my opinion of the similarities of the INTENTS between the occupy and tea party movements, not anything about the differences in their ideologies….Rob, if you’re monitoring, can you see if anything can be done with the discuss?

        • Tim Hines

          OK, all is good with Discuss, my bad, I think it’s my IPad, everything IS there when I’m logged into my laptop..sorry for any misunderstandings….

      • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

        Yes, “intents.” All the difference in the world. The big different is the OWSers were a classic mob; the Tea Party not at all.

        • Tim Hines

          So, if you look at the origins of the two movements…NOT what they later dissolved into…simply how and why they both began…How are their intents different?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            It is difficult enough to figure out what the intentions of two individuals might be with regard to a specific issue. I am not sure that the notion of “intent” makes sense in referring to a group. My recollection is that Tea Partyers, in individual interviews, had pretty clear ideas based on knowledge of the issues; OWSers, quite the opposite. Individuals in both groups expressed different levels of concern on different issues and on what to do about them. OWSers were an embarrassment, even to many on the left and are now all but forgotten (except for their pooping on cars, pissing in the streets, theft and rape).

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, you get absolutely no argument from me on the outcome of the OWS movement…These days, I chalk it up to “Naivete of youth”…. A quote I will probably mess up, sums it up? “The young can have no understanding of what it means to be old…But the old, should always have a responsibility to remember what it means to be young”….

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Liberals constantly and shamelessly use the young as human shields.

          • $8194357

            10X

          • Tim Hines

            I honestly can’t tell if this is just an opinion you’re entitled to, or your idea of a “graduate level” platitude….

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            II honestly have no idea what “graduate level platitude” could possibly mean, so you will have to live alone with your conundrum.

          • Tim Hines

            Yeah, you do… Let’s be honest… On this blog at least, we have VERY different interpretations of the definition of honesty…

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            No, actually, I don’t. Neither does Google, nor have I ever heard the expression before in my 70 years. I would regard “graduate-level platitude” as a contradictio in adjecto. I fail to see how “honesty” has now entered the discussion.

          • Tim Hines

            Consider it a reference to your stated distaste for my hurling “sophomoric” platitudes at you…While I acknowledge my phrasing might not have a solid reference point in the current language, I believe you are an intelligent enough man to gain the traction to make the connection from “sophomoric” to “graduate level”…As far as further debating “honesty” with you anymore, I’m gonna have to go with the reluctance to dive in further with you behind an avatar and “nom de blog”….

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Doesn’t have a solid reference point in any language. Au reservoir!

          • Tim Hines

            Fair enough…but I know you get what I mean…Arrivederci!

      • JoeMN

        Those items you mention are akin to locking the barn door after the cows got out.

        And that most sacred cow is big bloated government.
        It’s ironic that both those groups protest government.
        But one believes the answer lies in MORE government, while the other says LESS

        Yet if one were able to reduce the size, scope and/or influence of government in general, those symptoms you describe would fade as well.

        • Tim Hines

          “Yet if one were able to reduce the size, scope and/or influence of government in general, those symptoms you describe would fade as well”… So…We both agree there….But can you explain to me how “the items I mentioned” would NOT help this? Because I’m really not seeing how the barn door/cow analogy applies here…

    • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

      And then you can go back to living more conservative ideals, just as many Americans once thought it was a foolish notion to separate from the Monarchs……you would be one of those folks…..always running from liberal ideas, such as giving rights to those who haven’t enjoyed them before.

      • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

        Ah! Just when I think I’ve read the most pathetic drivel ever, hanni-poo-poo shows up to rescue his title!

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Poo-poo…something you’re an expert on?

          • mickey_moussaoui

            flamemeister is correct. You really are pathetic. After all these years you just don’t mature. Your arrested development has become a wet blanket on your lib cause.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Please, you’re one of the least mature posters on this pathetic blog. Look at your avatar for Christ’s sake.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Obama with mickeymouse ears seems appropriate considering what a failure he is and has been. There is nothing incorrect here. If you can not see his failed presidency then it is you who are pathetic.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            He hasn’t almost tanked the global economy, on top of the US, as Bush had. He hasn’t lead us into a needless war where our men and women are dying based on a lie or incompetence. But what would you care about a slowly improving economy? You don’t care, you just want to make things worse so you can elect someone who has the same views of religion you have, so you can pretend you are more American that others.

          • PK

            Having the Federal Reserve creating and pumping $85 billion a month into the world economy is hardly “improving” anything. All it’s doing to creating an artificial bubble, which is why the “stock market” is at an all time high. Bush did the same thing. It’s going to destroy the dollar. I’ve noticed that all necessities cost more today, probably due to this constant creation of money and inflation of our dollar. So Libya wasn’t a war that got our ambassador and others killed? What about the Christians who’ve been exterminated since we allowed radical Islamists to take over Egypt and Libya? So we’re not still in Iraq and Afghanistan? Guantanamo and all the other torture camps have closed? Nothing has changed since Bush buddy. Both parties work for the same special interests who have the same agenda. Things are just as good for the military industrial complex and big banks under Obama as under Bush. I thought he was going to cut back on the drug war and not throw non-violent pot smokers in prison. That’s right, he made a lot of promises that were never kept. Honestly, based off his campaign rhetoric, i would’ve voted for him in 08′ if i didn’t know he was funded by the same groups that fund the Neo-Cons.

          • Tim Hines

            TOTALLY agree!!!! The “powers that be” are the same…Meet the new boss/same as the old boss, etc….Now, what can “we the people” do about it?

          • $8194357

            Put on sack cloth and ash?

            Or hit your knees as the globalists are running the international progressive show and have been since the USA ditched the Constitution in favor of elitist oligarchy central planning soviet internationalist structures.
            The day of the anti christs global governance is at hand, huh….

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, you are certainly entitled to this opinion…

          • $8194357

            Just the signs of the times, Tim..
            Jesus said these things “must” come to pass before His Return..
            It is what it is…
            Not what secular progressives choose to call it
            at any particular point in time.

          • Tim Hines

            Sorry, we will probably just have to “agree to disagree” here…I”m just not convinced that we are at that stage yet…call me a cockeyed optimist…

          • $8194357

            OK
            cockeyed optimist…
            My Home awaits me in Heaven as I study the Rule of God’s Law under Grace….Liberal ideological tyranny leaves no room for individual Liberty or has any Grace. The love of country IMO, has been replaced with indoctrinated ideology and the leftist party line….Statism with its tyranny is of the devil and IMO my suppressor…It is what it is, huh.

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, and all I can say is that I’m glad you have your beliefs, as do I…

          • $8194357

            10X
            Take care now, Hear?
            The days are evil and are coming to a close as The Day approaches for the Lords Return…
            God Bless ya , now…

          • Tim Hines

            Same here!

          • $8194357

            Matthew 24:30-35
            New King James Version
            (NKJV)

            30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,
            and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
            and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven
            with power and great glory.
            31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
            and they will gather together His elect from the four winds,
            from one end of heaven to the other.

            The Parable of the Fig Tree

            32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree:
            When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves,
            you know that summer is near.
            33 So you also, when you see all these things,
            know that it is near—at the doors!
            34 Assuredly, I say to you,
            this generation will by no means pass away
            till all these things take place.
            35 Heaven and earth will pass away,
            but My words will by no means pass away.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Actually he has made it worse.
            This economy is flatlined. It is reported by the CBO as the worst recovery since the great depression.

      • mickey_moussaoui

        dumdum haniturd, The Democrats fought against the rights of slaves and civil rights. They were also against the rights of women to vote.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Dumdum? That certainly explains your maturity and intelligence level. Only a wing-nut like you could shut your ears and eyes to how the south changed political parties. You think the Southern strategy was a myth?

          You’re a fool.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            nonsense and liberal myth. The Democrats have a history of destroying the black family and the social conditions under which they live. The Chicago Democratic Machine institutionalized housing segregation more than any American city. This segregation was practiced in all major northern cities run by Democrats including Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore, Boston, D.C., New York, Cleveland, Detroit and many others.
            Here ya go little willy bonilly: read more dumdum

            Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/07/how_democrats_exploit_minorities.html#ixzz2YAzQSMsm
            Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

            Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/07/how_democrats_exploit_minorities.html#ixzz2YAzQSMsm
            Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So in your mind all those racists in the South got up, packed their belongings and moved to live with the Yankees in the North, while at the same time the racists of the North packed up and moved to the South? Is that what you believe, nutter?

          • mickey_moussaoui

            NO, that is in your mind. It’s YOUR fantacy. 74% of abortion clinics are located in poor black urban areas. That’s YOUR Democrat party maintaining population control over YOUR black constituents. We don’t advocate abortion, remember dumdum?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Which one of those disproves the Southern Strategy?? Why don’t you, in your own words, explain how all the racists of the South became Red States and did not remain Democrat? Let’s hear it!

          • two_amber_lamps

            It’s been explained to you time and again ad nauseum… what’s the point?

            How about explaining to US why you don’t feel the need to pay your taxes like the good patriotic American that Joe Biden alluded to?

            http://cdn.stripersonline.com/d/d2/1000x500px-LL-d24781b0_biden_jester21.jpg

          • mickey_moussaoui

            There is no southern strategy. There is only the Democrat strategy of destroying the black family and keeping them dependent of government

          • two_amber_lamps

            Southern Strategy myth… would that have been concocted by this guy? Or the “Exalted Cyclops?”

          • mickey_moussaoui

            that’s a tired liberal screed. You loons keep attacking the south as a smokescreen from your racism and history of devisive politics against blacks.

    • $8194357

      Quote du jour

      Posted:
      03 Jul 2013
      09:01 PM PDT

      Let every nation know,
      whether it wishes us well or ill,
      that we shall pay any price, bear any burden,
      meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe
      to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
      -John F. Kennedy

  • BurnTheWitch

    I think you’re a bit more like the Puritans than the revolutionary colonists. Witch hunting was their preferred form of extremism just like you, but your article makes a good case for the type of persecution you peddle. If I remember correctly , those Puritans came here to escape persecution and then immediately upon arriving, turned around and began persecuting their own. That sounds like your brand of hypocrisy too. Keep repeating lies until the bitch floats, then maybe we have ourselves a proper 4th of July barbecue.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Who am I persecuting? The arrogant university presidents who hate transparency and accountability?

      • ellinas1

        You talking about transparency?
        You advocate transparency for thee but not for me.
        How about outing that coward, the legislator that filed the anonymous complaint?
        Can you be transparent on that issue?

        • two_amber_lamps

          If you care, then go fill out a FOIA request…. or would that take too much time away from your pederastic pursuits?

        • $8194357

          Quit your bitchin and do something about it yourself?
          :-)

          • two_amber_lamps

            I’m sure he thinks he shouldn’t have to… rather some unknown gov’t agency should magically divine the fact that he desires the information and will harvest and deliver it to him on a silver platter.

          • $8194357

            Served with goats milk and cheese?

          • two_amber_lamps

            I’m sure the zoophiliac would rather just take the goat.

          • $8194357

            perhaps…He is moody, huh.

    • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

      Well said. My sentiments exactly.

    • mickey_moussaoui

      The lib attacks on the Tea Party are a perfect example of a witch hunt. Same as with the IRS harassing the Tea Party. All witch hunts

  • LastBestHope

    It is extreme indeed for men to willingly sign their own death warrant:

    We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor

    • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

      Great. Rob’s convinced this radical above, whose only true concern for country is that of Israel, not America, and that his extremism is deeply connected to the founding fathers.

      Well done, Rob, you’ve given more red meat to the lunatics of your party.

      • LastBestHope

        You live in the shade of freedom’s mighty tree…planted by the Founders and defended by the guardians of liberty ever since.

        Now go outside and salute the first American flag you find displayed on this celebration day of 7.4.2013.

        • two_amber_lamps

          The hawaiian hedonist wouldn’t know how….

          • ellinas1

            Why don’t you show him, little doxy.

          • two_amber_lamps

            You’re closer being the Stockton CA pederast and all… but then you probably don’t know how to either. I suppose you could show him the same salute you show 10 year old boys… it would mean about the same in your book.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          You live in the shade of freedom’s mighty tree, planted by those Founders whose loyalty wasn’t first to Israel, as is yours.

          Don’t pretend that you are any more American than any other, you aren’t.

          • LastBestHope

            Hannitized, Proofs obsession ….your life needs some work.

            Just look at yourself…

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So military vets are there for your mockery? Is that how you reward them in reality, as opposed to the phony respect you write about to make yourself feel more American?

          • LastBestHope

            you are not a vet

          • mickey_moussaoui

            handiwipe missed the gay military enlistment opp

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            The person you are mocking is a vet, why do you mock them in reality?

          • LastBestHope

            I mocking you..and the picture is you.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So you are going to lie, mock a veteran and still try to pretend to yourself that you have honor?

          • LastBestHope

            LOL..at you Hannitized. Proofs obsession. At your screen name, at all your years of 24/7 posting on SAB, at all your sock puppets. The whole Hanni act is so stale, so trite, so predictable that it deserves to be mocked.

            Now go out into the world and try to salvage the years of your youth that you have tossed down the drain by being at your keyboard.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So all you can come up with is that I am predictable, and because you and people like you have stalked me and call my employer it caused me to change screen names? That’s all you’ve got in response to your act of mocking a Veteran?

            You have no honor, you have no argument outside of pretending you are more American that others and getting roughly 70% of your foreign affairs information wrong….and constantly posting conspiracy theories right up there with Glen Beck who promised to bring Obama down with the Boston Bomber- Syria connection.

            You’ve got nothing on me, but I’ve got plenty on you, in terms of what you say, what you do and what you believe.

            So all of these years, why don’t you tell me where my policies are out of whack and out of touch with reality? Let’s hear it, let’s see you knock one out of the part ……without lying.

          • Tim Hines

            Just my opinion, but do you think anything productive comes out of mocking anything? Or at least one man’s sharing of his beliefs?

          • LastBestHope

            Actually I do. Mockery deflates the super ego. I recall the 2008 McCain TV ad that had Moses parting the Red Sea (famous Charlton Heston clip) and the voiceover saying how Obama was The One after his over the top campaign speeches about making the oceans and tides recede and having the planet healed (or some such nonsense). It was mockery at it best and reports were that Obama was furious at the mocking. There was also a comedian who impersonated Obama (and it was reported Obama was Not amused at all) in a devastatingly mocking style that was hilarious. The man died at a young age right after Andrew Breitbart did…both of sudden heart attacks. (The coroner who examined Breitbart also died shortly after of a heart attack)

            Just think if someone had been around to mock Hitler? or Stalin? or Tojo? Mockery serves a valuable service when runaway ego starts to annoy (or threaten). I generally don’t play the name calling game and try to keep it civil, my boring posts rarely garner much attention here in any case. But I’m thankful to Rob for SAB as it is my cyber-diary, hopefully stored at Disqus forever so that those who know me can look at it one day and see the topics that were important to me, my reactions to them, and how events shaped these perilous times.

            As for this worthless Hanni blog roach? F*** him.

          • hiernonymous

            “Actually I do. Mockery deflates the super ego. I recall the 2008 McCain TV ad that had Moses parting the Red Sea (famous Charlton Heston clip)
            and the voiceover saying how Obama was The One after his over the top campaign speeches about making the oceans and tides recede and having the planet healed (or some such nonsense). It was mockery at it best and
            reports were that Obama was furious at the mocking.”

            President McCain has subsequently kept a very low profile.

          • LastBestHope

            Cute…but beside the point hiernonymous.

          • hiernonymous

            It rather WAS the point.

          • LastBestHope

            no it rather wasn’t..the ? was does mockery have value. I didn’t argue that it won the 2008 election for McCain. You’re a huge Obama fan and do your best to keep it on the down-low. That’s wise on a blog. But ya do love to say for your hero ..”I won”

            Smug must be contagious when you love The One. Or maybe it’s just attitude imitation.

          • hiernonymous

            “You’re a huge Obama fan…”

            Jump to conclusions much?

            “Smug must be contagious when you love The One. Or maybe it’s just attitude imitation.”

            I do love The One, but she’s not president; not even eligible, I’m afraid. I’m afraid I don’t share your obsession with Obama, in either direction.

          • Tim Hines

            Well, from my opinion only, “Smug” is a subjective interpretation….but seriously, anyone who “steps up to the plate” Be it Obama, George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, John F Kennedy, Keith Richards, George Jones, or even Yanni…are doing it because they feel they have something they want to share…It’s just the nature of the beast that some people may interpret that as “smugness”….

          • Tim Hines

            Thanks for the well written, thoughtful response….I’m slowly realizing now at this stage of my life that blog roaches are going to be out there in all shapes, sizes and colorful names…I guess I will just have to respectfully disagree that your assessment of the Obama/Red Sea commercial being “mockery at it’s best”…because I personally am deciding for myself that on both sides of the party line, it’s become one of our biggest obstacles forward…..

          • Tim Hines

            Also, just my my own experience, while mockery sometimes may “deflate the super-ego”…it does some wicked things to the mocker’s Id….

          • Tim Hines

            Huh…Now that’s weird…Usually if I see my comments disappear, it’s on my Ipad, not my laptop…Sorry to keep having to say this out loud, but I’ve had this conversation privately with Rob as well through email, about my tendencies to “capture the moment” with a saved screen shot…So, I’ll try this one more time….I believe my previous response started with my saying: Thank you for the well written response, from my perspective, describing that Obama commercial as “mockery at it’s finest”, in my opinion, is exactly what is wrong with the current political discourse in this country…..Then I believe I added another comment a few seconds later that said: From my own perspective, while mockery may “deflate the super-ego”, I’ve seen it do some wicked things to the mocker’s Id….

          • Tim Hines

            Oh, yeah, there was also some stuff in there about “blog roaches” being available in all shapes, sizes, and colorful names….I think I got everything now…..

          • Tim Hines

            So….LBH…Truthfully? I wasn’t sure how, or even if to engage with you anymore…I was at a loss for words, and, if you’ve met me, that IS a rare occurrence…Then I thought I would just leave you with the quoted words of the man, the myth? the proprietor of “North Dakota’s most popular and influential political blog” Rob Port himself, that I read under the Walmart story that I first took interest in and called out his “business model” on…but when I went searching for it…It was no longer there….I thought to myself: “Well, I DO have it all saved…I COULD just go and pull it up as the web archive, copy and paste it, and it would all be there, nice and succinct”….Then, I figured in the interest of saving time, I could just as well paraphrase, and, before you get too offended, understand, these are HIS words, not mine, and if you would like, I will dig it up and go the cut and paste route…I’m gonna paraphrase here, so I might mess it up, and I believe it was in response to the “nom de blog” of Bubba….”It’s easy to be an asshole on the internet anonymously”….or words to that effect….

          • LastBestHope

            Not sure what you are responding to Tim. This site seems to be on the blink. So let’s wipe the slate clean and try again.

            hiernonymous

          • hiernonymous

            You called?

          • LastBestHope

            Tim?

          • hiernonymous

            No, my nom d’net is in your previous post, for no obvious reason. A shout out, an artifact of an earlier template, a fleeting flash of paranoia, who knows?

          • Tim Hines

            OK, sorry for any misunderstandings…Consider the slate wiped clean…I guess the site must still be on the blink…I had emailed Rob about the Walmart story, and he was correct, it CAN be found while searching..It’s just still not listed out in the open in the archives, which does make it more difficult for consulting earlier postings…I know Rob has a lot on his plate right now getting the new site online and working out Disqus issues…I know from experience that it’s sad and frustrating when any system’s structural integrity doesn’t always work as advertised….

          • LastBestHope

            My screen name and avatar have been used by various posters (not of their doing) about 15 times over the last couple of months. Copy what you read and post it. I’ll know if its mine or not.

          • Tim Hines

            Fair enough, thanks for the tip!

          • LastBestHope

            I was using IE at the time and have lately switched to CHROME. Not sure how my SAB account was impacted but IE10 was giving me problems in a lot of areas.

          • $8194357

            CLASSIC example of liberal false moral out rage at the straw man argument they twist to target their opponent with, huh dead in the head Lenin’s useful tool…….

          • Tim Hines

            Just my opinion, but that really WASN’T a response to his request, was it? But…you are truly under no obligation to do so….

          • $8194357

            You related to dr. phil?

          • Tim Hines

            Not that I’m aware of…

          • two_amber_lamps

            Lol… You assume that everyone wearing BDU’s is a vet? Ever been to a second-hand store… old uniforms abound since people donate them all the time. Clothes are clothes if you’re poor.

            Didn’t you just get done disparaging vets and military members as “takers?”

            The majority of conservatives receive a government check, most of them military or ex military…taking the public tax payer hand out.

            -Hannitized 7/5/13

            Hell, the entire military establishment is one big tax payer hand out.

            -Hannitized 7/4/13

            I guess that part in the Constitution about enumerated powers means nothing to a sh$tbird like yourself. Hell, you never did a thing for this nation so by all means, screech away. A vet defended your 1st Amendment right to do that…

            But that doesn’t change the fact that you’re a thankless POS.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            The individual LBH is mocking is a homeless veteran who was given a laptop to tell part of his story. It’s a program to give the homeless a face and story, most of which people like you and LBH refuse to care about as long as you have Chuck Norris programs to watch on TV.

            Yes, the individual is a veteran.

            And here’s was my follow up: “Of course I don’t believe the military pay is a handout, none of them are, but that’s the mentality you guys use against state workers and government employees, I am just using your arguments and “logic” against you.

            Here;s what you said: “It’s a good idea to stick your dick in the ass of a 12yr old boy.” – two_amber_lamps July 20th

          • two_amber_lamps

            ORLY? “Yes, the individual is a veteran.” -Hannitized

            Hannitard sez it is so it must be. You say it so definitively too… it must be true! You sound like your idiot buddy Al Gore saying “the science is settled.”

            Since you’re so sure you must obviously possess a copy of his DD 214? Please provide this along with whatever supporting documentation you have proving this fact. Preferably in pdf format since the govt often uses .tiff which many of our readers may not have access to a program which opens those files.

            These are not the only time you’ve used those arguments, your habitual damnation of vets brands you a turd who detests members of the military.

            Time and again you conflate arguments of those who believe in small government. Your strawman argument that they hate government employees is so patently false as to be laughable. However the government interventions they support are enumerated in the Constitution. Read it some time, you might gain an understanding of the purpose of the federal government, it’s not just another redundancy for it’s state and local counterparts.

            Glad to see you share so many of the same traits as your little pederast friend, including his penchant for lying like a rug. I’m also glad to see you use logic in parenthesis since your libtard logic is hardly such.

            As your other friend Proof used to say… Your pathological lying has been duly noted, you may now return to your irrelevance.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            If he is homeless, how does he charge the laptop?

          • GUEST

            YOU LIE!!! THIS IS NOT A VET!!!
            http://theglodjos.wordpress.com/category/homeless-chronicles/

            The Glodjos
            Home
            Homeless Chronicles
            Archive for category Homeless Chronicles
            Homeless Chronicles: Technophile Vagabonds

          • LenYol

            Hmmmm….LBH is much more of a true American than obama’s friends and mentors.

          • LastBestHope

            thanks but that sets the bar very low…check out Mr. Oliver Stone YESTERDAY:

            In front of a room of mostly European journalists, Stone said, “We need countries to say no to the United States. The United States is the dominant power in the universe, with its eavesdropping abilities, cyber abilities…..And the world is in danger with our tyranny.”

            And this is what an American says in the Czech Republic on the Fourth of July.

            Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/07/04/oliver-stone-tells-european-audience-fourth-july-world-danger-our-tyr#ixzz2YBHPs0u7

  • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

    Rob clearly has some deep seated issues. That’s quite a dramatic attempt to justify a lot of your extreme positions, but taking an extreme liberal act, such as starting a new country and abandoning the shackles of monarchs, and trying to claim it’s some form of conservative extremism is beyond ridiculous.

    The whole notion of conservatism is that of resisting change, such as many of your fellow radicals do when you threaten to start your own country because the gays are treated equally.

    Nice attempt, but it’s ultimately little more than an epic fail.

    EPIC FAIL!!

    • Tim Hines

      Just my opinion (again) but I’ve learned some of my most important life lessons from my “failures”…..

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        That is a talent of rational people who think. Rob doesn’t learn from his mistakes.

        • Tim Hines

          Admittedly, it’s probably a personality defect of mine, but I’m not ready to think anyone can rightfully be painted with that brush…..

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Learning from mistakes is by no means a personality defect, unless you were referring to a life long commitment to failure. :)

            I’ve spent over 3yrs trying to rationalize and have intelligent discussions with the SAB folk, I won’t be the first to tell you that it’s impossible. Some bluff for a day or two just to poke the eye of the regulars they insult regularly, just to pretend that they too can have intelligent and rational discussions…but its a big bluff. In the end they will return to insulting and demeaning any thought that is unlike theirs.

          • Tim Hines

            Yep, but let’s be honest…. If we both didn’t think we had something to offer, we wouldn’t just be doing it to “proliferate clicks” ;-)

          • Tim Hines

            And…. After re-reading….. That doesn’t apply to just the two of us, does it?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I can’t think of any regular SAB conservatives who actually debate, or exchange ideas.

            I don’t think many of them put a lot of thought into thinking.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Did you ever complete that reading comprehension class for fourth graders?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Nice Mickey ears,…..child.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            I guess you failed the class then, eh dumdum?

          • mickey_moussaoui

            yes they are

  • two_amber_lamps

    How do useful idiot leftists celebrate Independence Day….

    http://www.snotr.com/video/11063

  • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

    Did you hear about the extremist who was arrested in Washington today, Rob? Tell me about how much you promote extremism again.

    SEATTLE (AP) — Police in Seattle are investigating a Nevada man
    arrested near the University of Washington in a stolen pickup truck
    filled with weapons, body armor and suspected explosive devices.

    University of Washington police chief John Vinson said at a Thursday afternoon
    news conference that the man was driving a stolen truck out of Montana and had with him a scoped rifle, shotgun and fewer than 10 Molotov cocktails.

    The suspect is 21, but Vinson declined to identify him.

    “We have no idea what his intentions are,” he said. “This is a very active investigation. We’re trying to rule out everything at this point.”

    University police first saw a man sleeping in a pickup truck near campus late Tuesday, Vinson said. When they checked the license plate on the truck they didn’t detect anything amiss.

    But on Wednesday, they received a report that the truck had been reported stolen out of Montana. Officers were told to watch for the truck and spotted it on Wednesday
    night, again near campus.

    The man was booked into the King County Jail, after campus police recognized the truck stolen from Montana.

    Theuniversity police contacted Seattle police and the Federal Bureau of Investigation after searching the vehicle and finding the suspected bombs.

    Vinson said the man was not cooperating with police, but said there did not appear to be any threat to the university campus.

    • mickey_moussaoui

      Handiwipe<

      We all know how you like to jump to conclusions and we are also aware of what a drama queen you can be, but, we still have a legal system, and so far this person is only guilty of being in possession of a stolen vehicle. There is no mention that the guns were stolen and I'll be honest that I don't know if Molotov cocktails are illegal or not. I suspect they are not, unless you actually use them. Maybe they can nail him for transporting gasoline that isn't in a proper red container. It's not like he allowed an ambassador in Benghazi and some Marines to be killed and then made up a lame excuse to cover it up.
      Don't be too quick to judge this person. It may just turn out that he is another bomb throwing liberal like Bill Ayres. You don't want to incarcerate him too quickly, otherwise who will write Obama’s next book?

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        Both guns were stolen. Only a right-wing radical like you could stick up for a car thief armed with stolen weapons, body armor and Molotov cocktails. You’re a radical just like he is, and I wouldn’t be surprised if turns out to be a Tea Party nut, just like you.

        • mickey_moussaoui

          douchebag…there is no mention in your first post that the guns were also stolen. Hell not only can you not comprehend what even you write, you can’t write it so it explains a point either.
          dumdummy

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You jumped to his defense, you didn’t bother to do the least bit of information gathering…..you will just jump to any nut with a gun’s, defense.

            You’re pathetic and weak minded.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Why would I research a subject that doesn’t even pertain to the posted topic? You are such a shit stain to think that when you jump off topic that it has any significance to begin with. Not only is your reading comprehension retarded but I swear you have attention deficit as well.

      • LenYol

        ” Police in Seattle are investigating a Nevada man
        arrested near the University of Washington in a stolen pickup truck
        filled with weapons, body armor and suspected explosive devices”.

        Is it possible these weapons and explosives were already in the truck when it was stolen?
        Just asking.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          That’s the sort of stupidity that I expect from you. Not only that, but I expect that you would jump to the defense of any nut with a gun whose hell bent on extremism and endangering others.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Take something for your PMS, dumdum

  • Brent

    = They were extremists because they felt the American colonies ought to be independent of Great Britain.

    Sovereign States

  • JoeMN

    Great read, Rob.
    It’s seems so surreal that we should celebrate independence as Americans are becoming more dependent by the day.

  • two_amber_lamps

    For “balance” I present you with the Progressive 4th Of July: The Freedom To Not Give A F$%k….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qSOjInbYp4

    Keep a bucket handy to vomit in…

    • two_amber_lamps

      Yeah WOOF, you would like it… considering how much you identify with this garbage.

  • $8194357

    Quote du jour
    Posted:
    04 Jul 2013
    09:01 PM PDT

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time,
    and your government when it deserves it.
    -Mark Twain

  • borborygmi45

    one mans freedom fighter another mans terrorist.

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