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Thursday, June 29, 2006

Supreme Court Disallows Guantanamo Trials

Something of a defeat for the Bush administration...

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Supreme Court, in major defeat for President Bush's administration, blocked the U.S. military's current terrorism tribunal system, ruling 5-3 the commission's "structure and procedures" violate both military rules and the Geneva Conventions.

President Bush, in remarks made at a late morning press conference with Japan's prime minister, said he hadn't had time to thoroughly review the ruling and said he will work with Congress to get approval to try terrorism suspects before military tribunals.

Justice John Paul Stevens, in a decision that drew five votes on significant points, said the military must revamp the system. The ruling also rejected arguments made by the U.S. government that the Detainee Treatment Act, passed by Congress in December 2005, doesn't block the ability of federal courts to review habeas appeals from detainees.

"We conclude that the military commission convened to try Hamdan lacks power to proceed because its structure and procedures violate both the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the Geneva Conventions," Justice Stevens wrote. "The rules specified for Hamdan's trial are illegal," he added. "The executive is bound to comply with the rule of law that prevails in this jurisdiction."

In his own opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer said, "Congress has not issued the executive a 'blank check.' " He added: "Indeed, Congress has denied the president the legislative authority to create military commissions of the kind at issue here. Nothing prevents the president from returning to Congress to seek the authority he believes necessary."

The Bush administration had hinted in recent weeks that it was prepared for the court to set back its plans for trying Guantanamo detainees.

"To the extent that there is latitude to work with the Congress to determine whether or not the military tribunals will be an avenue in which to give people their day in court, we will do so,'' Mr. Bush said in an East Room news conference alongside Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi. "The American people need to know that the ruling, as I understand it, won't cause killers to be put out on the street." Mr. Bush said little more, saying he had received only a "drive-by briefing" on the ruling just out Thursday morning.


This was the right decision. From my reading of the Constitution the power to create a judicial process for Guantanamo detainees - be it through military tribunal or civilian courts - lays with the legislative branch of our government and not the executive branch.

Article I, Section 8:

The Congress shall have Power... To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations...and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water...[and] To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


Article III, Section 1:

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.


The problem is, from this observer's point of view, that in the past Congress just hasn't done what they need to do. The war on terror has created a need for detaining enemies that fall outside guidelines set by previous laws and treaties (such as the Geneva conventions). There has been a need for new definition and judicial processes for some time now, but the legislators in Congress have ignored that need.

In the absence of guidance from previously established laws and rules and any guidance from the legislative branch the President has attempted to come up with a system to process the prisoners at Guantanamo bay. His solution seems perfectly reasonable to me, but it lacks the approval of Congress which is clearly required in the Constitution.

Let us hope that Congress can approve what the President has already been trying to do with minimal delay so that we can get the Gitmo prisoners their day in court.

Comments

Avatar for Outmigrated NoDaker

I think this qualifies as a “slap upside the head.”

Outmigrated NoDaker on June 29, 2006 at 11:16 am
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Let’s hope it qualifies as the first of many.

No name-calling yet of the moderate justice who crossed over and voted with those evil liberals?

I’m sure it’s forthcoming.

diane on June 29, 2006 at 11:45 am
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The Democrats will fight legislating anything that can actually get the detainees processed and out of Gitmo so they bitch about the detainees being stuck in Gitmo. So will the terrorist-loving commentors here, they are just as willing to scream about injustice and let the people they claim to care so much about sit and rot as they are willing to see another 3,000 Americans die to make Bush look bad. The left tends to be slightly dishonest, by that I mean they are lying scum.

bullwinkle on June 29, 2006 at 12:32 pm
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Exactly right, bullwinkle.

I think a lot of people are getting it wrong on this ruling.  It doesn’t mean the detainees can’t be processed through military tribunals (which is exactly what Bush wants) it just means they can’t without Congressional approval.

As I pointed out in the post, federal courts are estabilshed by Congress.  The rules for the military are also established by Congress.  The President cannot simply create, unilaterally, a whole new system of rules and procedures for processing Gitmo detainees.  That must come throug Congress.

I understand why Bush did what he did, but this ruling was the right one.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 01:24 pm
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So! No trials for terrorists? Fine. Let the executions begin.

TwoHotel9 on June 29, 2006 at 01:28 pm
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It’s a good day for those who believe in the rule of law.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 02:33 pm
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2H9, it’s not that there will be no trials but rather that Congress must approve any trials or procedures used to determine the guilt of these detainees.

Mike, oh come off it.  What the President proposed was perfectly acceptable.  What this ruling amounts to is a technicality.  You’d see that if you didn’t have your head buried in a big pile of “I hate Bush.”


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 02:36 pm
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Yes Mike, your terrorist pisanos are having a wonderful day. When are you going to accept one to live in your home?

TwoHotel9 on June 29, 2006 at 02:40 pm
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I know,Rob. And the terrorist supporting Dems are going to block any action on this.

TwoHotel9 on June 29, 2006 at 02:44 pm
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It’s a peculiar view that equates respect for and approval of our western legal traditions with support for terrorism but then again I’d be disappointed if my favourite American friends didn’t advance that connection. Why don’t you lads show a little backbone in the face of the terrorist onslaught and stand up for those principles that the enemy hates us for instead of hiding behind the skirts of Big Brother?

Rob...I don’t hate Bush.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 03:20 pm
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Mike, I’ll take your word for it...but that is most certainly the impression I get from your comments.

But that’s really neither here nor there.  What is clear, to me, is that this wasn’t a major defeat for the Bush administration.  Rather, Bush got defeated on a technicality.  All he has to do to get his tribunals rolling is to get Congressional approval.

Sadly, I’m afraid that Democrats will probably do what they can to hold up that approval given that they like having Gitmo has a political weapon to use against Bush.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 03:26 pm
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MikeA: The flaw in your reasoning is believing that war and domestic legality are related.  These guys aren’t citizens, and aren’t entitled to the same protections as are our citizens under our law.  War is the law of the jungle, generally speaking.  When we show weakness to that part of the world, it only emboldens them.  Don’t take my word for it, read what OBL said about our time in Somalia.

robert108 on June 29, 2006 at 03:27 pm
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Rob said

All he has to do to get his tribunals rolling is to get Congressional approval.

Then it’s a good thing that the Republicans control Congress...unless some of those Republicans aren’t comfortable with twisting and/or abandoning what are quite basic legal principles.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 03:49 pm
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What legal principles would those be, Mike?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 03:55 pm
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r108 opines

These guys aren’t citizens, and aren’t entitled to the same protections as are our citizens under our law.

Agreed...but that isn’t the issue. Your Supreme Court says that you can’t hold special trials that don’t conform to basic requirements of our legal traditions. What you seem to miss is that it’s possible to agressively deal with terrorism while staying within the law. You’d think that this was the first attack our way of life has ever faced you’re so quick to jettison the rule of law. Are you that scared? Courage my friend.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 03:56 pm
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docdave...of course I would. One would hope that your judicial leadership would understand and appreciate the strength and durability of our democratic institutions but if they need a little pep talk then let me know. wink

Rob...habeous corpus, proper legal representation, meaningful charges, etc.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 04:02 pm
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MikeA: “What you seem to miss is that it’s possible to agressively deal with terrorism while staying within the law.”

What law?  That is my entire point.  Your lecture misses that one completely.  War, once again, is not a matter of law.  I’m not afraid of anything, btw.  I have faced death any number of times, and that puts things into perspective quite effectively.  I’m not afraid to treat terrorist scum like terrorist scum.  They understand that law; they just think we are too cowardly to follow it, so they just keep coming.  Once again, I refer you to OBL and his statements about Somalia.

BTW, our legal traditions are for our citizens, not for terrorist scum.  By definition.  Look at the recent polls to see how the appeasement policies toward Muslims have worked for Great Britain.  The British Muslims are the bitterest in the world.

robert108 on June 29, 2006 at 04:03 pm
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Your Supreme Court says that you can’t hold special trials that don’t conform to basic requirements of our legal traditions.

Please don’t say “our” legal traditions as if you were an American, Mike.  No offense to Candidans, but your country’s legal traditions are not ours.  Not meaning that to sound snarky, but let’s be clear on distinctions.

Also, the Supreme Court simply ruled that the President must work with Congress to get approval on whatever tribunal or trial system that will be used to give these detainees their day in court.

In short, if these people are to be tried they must be done so according to the rules as made by Congress.  Unfortunately, Congress hasn’t to date passed any rules that explicitly apply to the special circumstances surrounding the Gitmo detainees so the President tried to come up with his own system.  That is unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court was right in their ruling in that regard.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 04:04 pm
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Once again, Mike Adamson intelligently and calmly tries to reason with the unreasonable.

TripleWinkle says:
The left tends to be slightly dishonest, by that I mean they are lying scum.

Your fellow Israelis are scumming their way across the border into Palstinian territory, doing their usual mayhem.  When they left Gaza, I’m guessing they were just looking for something to get it back. 

An Israeli shouldn’t throw out such demeaning terms when his countrymen are some of the worst terrorists of all time.

diane on June 29, 2006 at 04:16 pm
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Congress hasn’t to date passed any rules that explicitly apply to the special circumstances surrounding the Gitmo detainees so the President tried to come up with his own system

The President isn’t supposed to ‘try to come up with his own system’.  He’s supposed to abide by the law and uphold the Constitution, both of which he apparently has no regard whatsoever for.  This isn’t the Wild West, and Bush ain’t hte sheriff, much as he probably wishes that were the case.

This is a day of victory for all who still have a shred of hope that this nation is ruled by law and a balanced system of checks and balances!

diane on June 29, 2006 at 04:19 pm
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Please don’t say “our” legal traditions as if you were an American,

I was using “our” as we share a common tradition based on Common Law but I’ll be more specific in the future.

Also, the Supreme Court simply ruled that the President must work with Congress to get approval on whatever tribunal or trial system that will be used to give these detainees their day in court.

It seems a little more involved than that Rob. Take point #4 in the decision which appears on page 4 of the pdf:

4. The military commission at issue lacks the power to proceed because its structure and procedures violate both the UCMJ and the four Geneva Conventions signed in 1949.

I’m not a lawyer but I doubt that Congress can merely rubber stamp the present setup to make it legal.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 04:21 pm
Avatar for diane

Please don’t say “our” legal traditions as if you were an American,

Why?  TripleWinkle is an Mexican-American-Israeli and he talks like he’s an American.
To me, an American is someone with one citizenship only or someone who will state if his first loyalties are to America.

diane on June 29, 2006 at 04:41 pm
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So, all that having been said, when are you inviting them on over for beer and bacon? They are your pisanos, you could have them one week and Dhimi can take them the next. Alternate holidays at woofie’s and donnie’s places. That should not be a problem, since y’all want to cut them loose to do their"thing". How about it?

TwoHotel9 on June 29, 2006 at 04:45 pm
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Seems to me that it is the duty of congress to do the right thing, but the president insisted all along that the patriot act and/or some other act gave him the authority to do what he was doing regarding these prisoners of war (ooops....unlawful combatants).

ellinas on June 29, 2006 at 05:49 pm
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Rob Says:

Also, the Supreme Court simply ruled that the President must work with Congress to get approval on whatever tribunal or trial system that will be used to give these detainees their day in court.

I realize that this is early and nobody’s really analyzed the decision.  However the Powerline guys had this to say:

Scalia’s dissent accuses the majority of ignoring the plain language of Congress’s enactment providing that:

[N]o court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the Department of Defense at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

I don’t know if Rob had seen this.  It does show some different light on the subject.

The Whistler on June 29, 2006 at 07:04 pm
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TW: Not to worry.  In their lust to lie their way back into power, the lefties minimize every victory of the President(and there are many), and magnify any small incident they can spin into a defeat(like the booming economy).  This keeps them very busy and spinning like insane tops.
This is no big deal.

robert108 on June 29, 2006 at 07:08 pm
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2H9 said

So, all that having been said, when are you inviting them on over for beer and bacon?

I’m not having them over...I don’t like them.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 08:51 pm
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I’m not a lawyer but I doubt that Congress can merely rubber stamp the present setup to make it legal.

Who do you think writes the UCMJ?  Notice the word “Congressional” at the front of that title.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 09:05 pm
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Mike, I’d also point out that the President is now doing exactly what I’ve stated in this post/thread: He is pushing for Congress to pass legislation to specifically allow the tribunals.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 09:11 pm
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Rob,

Military Tribunals in the United States predate the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  There are sections concerning them in both the UCMJ and the Manual for Courts Martial (MCM).  The tribunals established by the President were just about identical to those upheld in Ex Parte Quirren.

What those five idiots in robes did was move the resolution from the field of battle to the courtroom.  By endorsing the terrorists arrogation of the powers of a nation state, the Supreme Court has arrogated unto themselves the power of the Executive.

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Rodney Graves on June 29, 2006 at 09:13 pm

Here’s my reading:

Illegal combatants or not, the Supreme Court has ultimately ruled that either the prisoners are POWs or they are criminals.  If they are POWs, then the Geneva Conventions that the US has signed carry force of law.

If they are criminals, then they must be treated in accordance with criminal court standards.  And that means by legislative rules established by congress, and not by presidential fiat.

Either way, Bush has no authority to set up tribunals using rules established solely by the administration, so like Rob, I think the Supreme Court got this right.  I really think Bush got some bad advice from his legal advisors early on, because this whole thing could have been avoided by getting Congressional legislation passed to govern the military tribunals.

Don’t expect Congress to simply rubber stamp the tribunal rules set up by the Administration.  Same party or not, they will likely enjoy this opportunity to exert their Article I powers over the administration.  And I happen to think that debate is a healthy thing in a democracy.  Discussing the rules for trying the al Qaeda prisoners at GITMO should be done publicly and with complete transparency.

Carrick on June 29, 2006 at 09:33 pm
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Rob...my point is not only that the tribunals were not established by Congress but that they are not in compliance with the Geneva Convention. Congress could establish identical tribunals tomorrow and they still might not be legal if I understand the decsion correctly. I’ve read elsewhere that it may just be easier to deny the incarcerated tribunals at at all since the Supreme Court’s ruling doesn’t require them...they merely ruled that the tribunals as constituted are illegal.

MikeAdamson on June 29, 2006 at 09:34 pm
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Discussing the rules for trying the al Qaeda prisoners at GITMO should be done publicly and with complete transparency.

Not to mention the fact that they should have taken place long ago.

I think part of the reason President Bush acted unilaterally to set up these tribunals is that Congress just wasn’t interested in addressing the problem themselves.

Now they will, of course, and as Carrick states the folks in Congress will love lording it over him given how much bitching (most of it not warranted) they’ve done about the President overstepping his executive powers in the past.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 09:39 pm

MikeAdamson, can you expand on why you think a military tribunal is in conflict with the Geneva Conventions, if you are dealing with a criminal rather than a prisoner of war?  Even assuming POW status, the Geneva conventions specifically discuss tribunals for determining the status of a POW.

From the commentaries on this that I have read, the issue with respect to the Geneva conventions is that the administration wrongfully declared these individuals illegal combatants without tribunals.  (See section 4 of the link.) That’s a very different thing than determining that a person is in violation of criminal laws for which he can then be tried via military tribunal.

Carrick on June 29, 2006 at 09:42 pm
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Mike, as Carrick pointed out the SCOTUS seems to have drawn a line between POW’s and criminals.  When Bush pushed to try the detainees in tribunals it was a tacit admission that they were the latter, not the former.

If they are criminals, and not POW’s, then the Geneva conventions do not apply and Bush can have his tribunals...as long as he gets Congressional approval for them.

Which, again as Carrick points out, is not necessarily a sure thing.

If I had to guess I’d say that Congress will probably come up with something that makes it look like they’re sticking it to Bush while giving him what he wants (or something equivalent) anyway.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

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Rob on June 29, 2006 at 09:44 pm
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Rob,

Warcrimes are not crimes against the Constitution and Laws of the United States.  Nor is there clear U. S. Jurisdiction on a field of battle, nor is there prior precedent for enemy combatants to enjoy the protections of the U. S. Crimminal process with regards to war crimes.

Military Tribunals have been the venue for warcrimes up to this point.

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Rodney Graves on June 29, 2006 at 10:09 pm
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I would imagine that the standard of proof and chain of evidence and such must be lower for war crimes than domestic crime.

The Whistler on June 30, 2006 at 04:30 am
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The impression I have is that the US government did not consider the incarcerated to be criminals or POW’s but some grey zone “enemy combattants” and thus the administration of their justice was basically at the whim of the President.

Carrick...the Court’s ruling indicates that the prisoners could be tried in regular military courts and remain in Geneva’s good graces. I’m reading point #4 (d) which starts on page 6 of the decision...I think that subpoint (iii) is particularly germane. Again, I’m no lawyer but fortunately for me this point seems fairly clear.

MikeAdamson on June 30, 2006 at 07:06 am

The whole point of the Hamdan case was that the Bush administration wanted to try him under a military commission, which has far more lenient (for the prosecution) rules of evidence than under a military tribunal.

Under a military commission -

“The accused and his civilian counsel may be excluded from, and precluded from ever learning what evidence was presented during, any part of the proceeding that either the Appointing Authority or the presiding officer decides to “close.” Grounds for such closure “include the protection of information classified or classifiable … ; information protected by law or rule from unauthorized disclosure; the physical safety of participants in Commission proceedings, including prospective witnesses; intelligence and law enforcement sources, methods, or activities; and other national security interests.”

and military commissions

“permit the admission of any evidence that, in the opinion of the presiding officer, “would have probative value to a reasonable person.””

Thus, the administration wanted to be able to try Hamdan without revealing any secrets at all, and to use any redacted documents in place of live witnesses, etc., that would be necessary at a military tribunal.

Hamdan could have been tried in a military tribunal, but for obvious reasons the administration chose to go a different route, which SCOTUS shot down, but Congress could authorize if it chooses.

Ken McCracken on June 30, 2006 at 07:33 am

. . . and then Congress could authorize military commissions, which would comport with Common Article 3 of the Geneva conventions, which requires

“the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.”

But, if you read the Ex Parte Quirin case, you find that this is a very low threshold of protections for the defendant, it is nothing close to the full constitutional protections that civilian noncombatants receive.

Ken McCracken on June 30, 2006 at 07:44 am
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robert108 on June 30, 2006 at 07:58 am
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Folks,

If we can’t interrogate prisoners who are taken on the battlefield in clear violation of the laws of warfare, why take such persons prisoner at all?  If we’re already cast as the devil of the piece, what have we to lose?

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Rodney Graves on June 30, 2006 at 08:07 am

The traditional way was to haul a partisan captured out of uniform before a military commission convened on the spot, give him a quick trial, and shoot him in the head.

All perfectly legal.

Maybe SCOTUS is forcing us to go back to that.

Ken McCracken on June 30, 2006 at 08:16 am
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Mark Levin said (as relayed by r108):

They are extending the Geneva Conventions to an enemy that is specifically excluded from those protections.

I see nothing in the Geneva Conventions that specifically excludes the enemy from those protections.

He also says:

Let’s look at the relevant Geneva Convention. First point - since when does a party that has NOT signed a treaty, and does not comply with a treaty, become a part of such a treaty? The Geneva Convention relating to the treatment of prisoners of war provides, at Article 4, that —

Someone should point Mark Levin to Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention which applies to every person on the face of the earth.

Thanks for the link r108 but Levin is dead wrong.

MikeAdamson on June 30, 2006 at 09:38 am
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Carrick...the Court’s ruling indicates that the prisoners could be tried in regular military courts and remain in Geneva’s good graces. I’m reading point #4 (d) which starts on page 6 of the decision...I think that subpoint (iii) is particularly germane. Again, I’m no lawyer but fortunately for me this point seems fairly clear.

Here is the text of subpoint iii:

While Common Article 3 does not define its “regularly constituted court” phrase, other sources define the words to mean an“ordinary military cour[t]” that is “established and organized in accordance with the laws and procedures already in force in a country.”The regular military courts in our system are the courts-martial established by congressional statute. At a minimum, a military commission can be “regularly constituted” only if some practical need explains deviations from court-martial practice. No such need has been demonstrated here.

If Congress gives approval to Bush’s tribunals then those tribunals will be “stablished and organized in accordance with the laws and procedures already in force in a country.” Meaning that we are perfectly in compliance with the Geneva conventions.


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Rob on June 30, 2006 at 09:50 am
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MikeA: Not being a lawyer, I can’t comment on small technical points of law, but I do believe that the Geneva Convention applies to uniformed combatants.  Therefore, non-uniformed terrorists who are engaged in illegal and immoral terrorist acts against both uniformed combatants and civilians would be excluded, as Levin says.  I believe this is the essential distinction.

robert108 on June 30, 2006 at 10:05 am
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Mister Adamson,

The complete text of GENEVA III Article 4 is here.

The terrorists fail just about every test.

Extending the protections afforded to legal combatants to terrorists is both stupid and vile.  Stupid because it abandons the practical reciprocity principles of the Customarly Laws of Warfare.  Vile because it affords protections to those who flaunt the laws of warfare.

Out Here
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Rodney Graves on June 30, 2006 at 10:14 am

MikeAdamson, I’m in agreement with the reading on HRW that there were several points that the GITMO doctrine was in conflict with the Geneva Conventions.  First was that a person needs to be determined an illegal combatant by a military tribunal on a case-by-case basis and not en masse.  Secondly the military tribunals to try a person for crimes as an illegal combatant need to be held using the established law of the country.  In “writing their own rules” the administration violated both the constitutional boundaries between the legislation and administration and the Geneva Conventions as well.

Rodney Graves, the Geneva Conventions still require some standards of behavior even for illegal combatants.  Once legally determined an illegal combatant, the individual loses many of the protections of the GC, but not all.  This means that there is no reciprocity of behavior… certainly not the case with AQ which routinely tortures prisoners before murdering them then mutilating their corpses.

Anyway, I think the HRW analysis is pretty close to spot on:

Nonprivileged or unlawful combatants may be charged with criminal offenses arising out of their participation in the armed conflict.armed activity, because they are not entitled to the immunity that is often called the “combatant’s privilege.” Like POWs, they can also be charged with committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and common crimes. or other serious offenses. While nonprivileged combatants are not entitled to the extensive trial rights of POWs under the Third Geneva Convention, they are entitled to a “fair and regular trial” and the trial protections provided by the Fourth Geneva Convention. It is a fundamental provisions of the Geneva Conventions that all detainees are entitled to “all the judicial guarantees recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.” Nonprivileged combatants are entitled to trial before a “properly constituted, non-political military court,” to be informed of the charges against them, to present their defense and call witnesses, to be assisted by qualified counsel of their own choice, to have an interpreter, and to mount an appeal against the conviction and sentence. As an exceptional measure, trials may be held in camera if the security of the state so requires.

This seems like a pretty reasonable standard of behavior for any civilized country to follow.  As I said, in this case, Bush failed primarily by not having Congress establish the military code for the trials.  In doing so, he violated not only the GC but also was in conflict with our own Constitution.

Carrick on June 30, 2006 at 10:43 am
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r108...I’m not a lawyer either but that doesn’t stop me. :>}

MikeAdamson on June 30, 2006 at 10:53 am
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Carrick,

GENEVA IV pertains to NON-COMBATANTS.  It is irrelevant as regards al Qaeda and other combatant NGO’s.

The implicit reciprocity (codified to a limited extent in Article 4 of GENEVA III) is that forces not observing the Customarly Laws of Warfare are not entitled to the protections of those laws.

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Rodney Graves on June 30, 2006 at 11:01 am
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MikeA,

It certainly shouldn’t stop you.  After all, look at all the attorneys is our Congress.  Heaven knows, lack of ability has stopped them.

Bat One on June 30, 2006 at 11:04 am
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