Say Anything Blog

Gov’t/law enfordement agencies usually subpeona phone records. Tend to think there is a legal hurdle to be jumped.

AT&T Inc., Verizon Communications Inc. and BellSouth Corp. gave up  your phone records, Qwest asked for  legal written justication. None was forthcoming.

The "left/media tizzy" is just so much meaningless background noise.  What is interestig is the case to be made for the Hayden appointment.  After all, CIA has been leaking like a seive for years now, while under General Hayden, NSA has been rather tight about security.

Then there’s the whole question of effectiveness.  The left has made a huge issue of the glaring incompetence of the CIA regarding Iraq, Iran, nuclear proliferation, international Islamist terrorism, etc.  And rightly so to judge by the 9-11 Commission Report.  NSA, with Michael Hayden as Director, has apparently been very effective at its assigned intelligence gather ing tasks… too effective for some leftists’ tastes.

It should be obvious to anyone paying attention, that were we not engaged in the War on Terrorism, we should really just scrap CIA and start from scratch.  The odious legacy of Frank Church, Standfield Turner, and Jimmy Carter lives on. 

WOOF,

Got a source for that? 

On the one hand, I kinda want to be tracked, since bothering the Panoptikon appeals to me somehow.  I don’t like the idea of the NSA accumulating huge databases, especially because I’m one who works with such databases for a living and knows their limitations.  IMO, the NSA is throwing good money after bad here and setting up a system for government control.

On the other hand, I’m annoyed (but not surprised) that the sources are anonymous.  Once again, journalists are accepting as gospel the testimony of people who are committing a felony in giving that very testimony.

If there’s a legal issue, should these people have made a stink about it with superiors?  YES.  Should they have taken it to ombudsmen or the courts?  YOU BET.  Should they perhaps have resigned in protest?  YES.

Should they have violated their pledge of confidentiality by going to USA Today?  No way. 

Perhaps the way to end this kind of shenanigans is to send leakers to combat infantry units.  Let them suffer a little bit of the consequences of what they do.

under General Hayden, NSA has been rather tight about security.

Except for these leaks about the NSA’s domestic intelligence gathering, as Robert points out. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

BatOne--  More good background in My FBI on the Church commission and the disasterous effects on information gathering.  The word hyping is a good one.  This "discovery" is a lie.  This monitoring has been going on for many years. 

The Truth:  We had an abusive caller about two years ago.  The local telephone company would not release the phone number.  He called on our landline phone.  Had he called my cell phone, I easily would have ID’d his number.  I even filled out an official police report.  The judge refused to ask for the number.  Criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens.

"Perhaps the way to end this kind of shenanigans is to send leakers to combat infantry units."

Robert,

An excellent suggestion.  This reminds me of Ann Coulter’s suggestion that we round up a bund of illegal aliens, the ones who do all those jobs that Americans  don’t want to do, and let them build the wall along the southern border with Mexico.  Poetic justice can be very satisfying… especially when real justice is so f***ing hard to come by. 

Rob,

I note your exception, however, I don’t believe that Hayden was DIRNSA at the time of the NYT leak.  I don’t recall reading about any unidentified disembowled bodies found in the Ft. Meade area at around that time.

Speaking Ann, how is she fairing with her Florida voting problem?

RBB:

Speaking Ann, how is she fairing with her Florida voting problem?

The ability to stay on topic is a sign of intelligence.  Based on how many off-handed remarks you make, I put your IQ somewhere around here. 

Just trying to be of service. 

Very generous, Carrick, very, very generous.

Rob,

Speaking about the leak of the NSA surveillance program, which you have also referred to as "domestic intelligence gathering" above, I have heard that the DOJ investigation is now focused on the office of Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), senior Democrat on the Senate Intelligence committee, and one of those briefed on the program every 6 weeks.  The NYT reports of multiple sources was apparently a ruse to cover for their main source of information on the program.

If this is true, the leak was not from within NSA, but once again from those Senate Democrats who had been briefed in by the administration.. 

right - ‘cause even after everything, we all trust that this Administration in only collecting information that its allowed to collect.  And nothing else.  Right… If you believe that, you’re part of that group that will look around in ten years and think "Shit.  Why did I fall into the trap of trusting the Bush Administration?"

But you go ahead and trust.  I’m sure they care enough about our privacy and our rights to not take advantage.  And I’m sure they’ll tell us everything about this program.  And the moon is made of cheese.

Roseelyse, this "on the envelope" information for calls has been available to law enforcement without a warrant through the cooperation of phone companies for decades.

This is nothing new, and your harumphing seems silly. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

If BatOne is correct, I’d be glad to send some Senate Democrats to combat units.  :^) 

We have got to get serious about leaking of confidential information, IMO--and organize things so there will be less of it seen by fewer people....it seems that we’ve got a culture in all departments in Washington that sees confidentiality as a nice option to be used until one can gain political advantage by revealing it.  How we ever survived the Cold War with such idiots in Washington is beyond me.

I just have to leave this link for those who are unaware

Its bad enough that big brother is watching and eavesdropping on We The People whom they happen to work for, but to have a foreign nation spying not only on any of us they wish but on our crooked Government as well. 

To realitybasedbob: Get out of here while you’re still sane.

To the rest: I hope they listen in on everything you say and do. If so, they’ll fall asleep from boredom. The truth is, you deserve what this country is becoming. 

Wait until it’s the Democrat/commie/pinko/lib/lefties listening in on you.  Hillary with her ear to the phone listening to all of you say terrible things about her and Bill.  What a mental picture that brings up.

I’m leaving.  Not totally but a gradual withdrawal.   It’s just too intriguing to watch so-called patriots and great Americans talking themselves into a police state.

How many interest rate hikes in a row are we up to now?  I’m losing track. 

This site is darn confusing.  I tried to post that in the economy thread.  Sorry.

Sorry to stray back to the topic.  Look at the phone records thing from a data atandpoint.  Takes but a few bits to store the time of call and the source and desination number.  It would take orders of orders of magnitude more to store the actual phone conversations and would not be prectical to collect that ‘data’, store that data, nor to access it.  Even if ‘they’ know who you are talking to and it raises a flag they still have to  make a case somehow with other information.  Even tho I’m one of those libs you hate so much, I say this is no big deal. 

Let’s get back to what’s going on here; someone decided that national security was less important than "getting" a Bush appointee, nothing less.  It illustrates very clearly what is wrong in Washington; people are so **** into their own politics, they don’t bother to do their job (e.g. INS) and instead go on smear campaigns.

If there is a bit of news that demonstrates the need to make things simple for those in Washington and insist that they do their job, this is it.  Let’s not forget that the "War on Terror" was kicked off as the INS failed to remove 15 people from our country who didn’t have the right to be here.

And let’s remember that under the Bush Administration the Border Patrol has had their hands tied.

And let’s remember, goprairie that large oaks from tiny acorns grow.

Even tho I’m one of those libs you hate so much, I say this is no big deal.

We don’t hate libs, we "hate" the moonbats.  

There’s nothing wrong with an honest difference of opinion.

I do have a problem with "them" listening in on my telephone conversations.  (Running all phone conversations through voice recognition/key word programs would constitute that IMO.)  

I don’t have the expectation that no one’s listening to a phone coversation crossing international borders.  I also know the phone company keeps records of my calls so I don’t have an expectation of the government not getting ahold of that data. 

I’m wondering when the story will come out that the government has a record of every email we’ve written as well? I’m not ‘computer savvy’ so don’t know anything about whether or not this has been discussed and what it would take to do it, but anything this administration does to take away our rights would be no surprise.

I know a Zionist acquaintance who was upset when I began to corner him on dual citizenship/Israeli spying, etc., once say he wouldn’t doubt if my emails were being hacked by the government.  (He is a programmer)

I’m wondering when the story will come out that the government has a record of every email we’ve written as well?

diane obviously has never heard of ECHELON.

...but anything this administration does to take away our rights would be no surprise.

Which allows her to say things like this.