Say Anything Blog

Its about time somebody did this, though I wonder how much trouble Willis is going to have with the movie studios over an accurate portrayal of the war in Iraq.

Probably very little. The vast majority of Hollywood war films have a pro-military message.

[...] Thanks Michelle Malkin & Say Anything for their articles about Bruce Willis new movie. ANGERED by negative portrayals of the conflict in Iraq, Bruce Willis, the Hollywood star, is to make a pro-war film in which American soldiers will be depicted as brave fighters for freedom and democracy. [...]

smile.....GOD bless you......smile

Actors should keep their mouths shut and their opinions to themselves.

MI: Only if they’re liberal.

The vast majority of Hollywood war films have a pro-military message.

Not since Vietnam most of them haven’t.

Actors should keep their mouths shut and their opinions to themselves.

I’ve never said that actors or celebrities should be denied their free speech rights.  I’ve critized them for making some outrageously stupid comments and I’ve said that it might be best for their careers if some of them kept their ill-informed opinions to themselves, sure, but I’ve never said they shouldn’t be allowed to speak.

Just another fine example of a fallacious ad hominem argument from MI.  This one, I believe, falls under the “circumstantial” category.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I’ve never said that actors or celebrities should be denied their free speech rights.

I never said you did.

dave, what movies/actors are you watching? The climate in Hollywood has been anti-military since the ‘70s. American troops are portrayed as criminals,drug addicts,rapists,and psychopaths. Saving Private Ryan is the only example of positive portrayal of the US military, and there was still that undercurrent of the evil American. A bit of reading may help. A novel by Tom Tiede, Coward. Give it a try. Worst it could do is open your mind.

Saving Private Ryan is the only example of positive portrayal of the US military

You must have missed (just from the past 20 years):

Top Gun
The Great Raid
Tears of the Sun
Pearl Harbor
Independence Day
We Were Soldiers
Black Hawk Down
Windtalkers
Hart’s War
Behind Enemy Lines
Clear and Present Danger
Men of Honor
Air Force One
Missing in Action
Collateral Damage
The Hunt for Red October
Iron Eagle
Red Scorpion
Every Rambo movie

Well… that should be enough to get you started. Go to “Blockbuster” this weekend!

With the very notable exceptions of Apocalypse Now and Oliver Stone’s films (and a handful of others), Hollywood war films are notoriously pro-military. This book studies the relationship between the Pentagon and our film industry, noting how in exchange for military assistance in making films directors and producers are forced to censor their films in accordance with Pentagon desires. (It also shows how, in order to make movies like the aforementioned Apocalypse Now, Coppola had to go without any assistance from the military.)

I will give you Top Gun, it was a recruiting poster for the Navy. We were soldires once...and young is not a product of the Hollywood left, and yes my copy of the book is signed by Joe Galloway. As for Rambo, it shows Americans not only as murdering psychopaths, also incompetent, lying cowards. As for the rest of your list, I have read the novels, not seen the movies for the simple fact they are changed almost beyond recognition in the majority of cases. Give me the title of the book you are recommending and I will go to Albris and check it out. We don’t do business with Amazon. Your attempt to make Hollywood a part of"The Vast Rightwing Conspiracy” had me laughing so hard I nearly threwup. Took 10 minutes to stop so I could write. In every example that can be put forward the US military is shown to be incompetent and unfeeling, if not outright evil. The hero invariably is the free spirit fighting the system. So please, try again.

Give me the title of the book you are recommending and I will go to Albris and check it out.

Operation Hollywood: How the Pentagon Shapes and Censors the Movies by David L. Robb.

Your attempt to make Hollywood a part of”The Vast Rightwing Conspiracy” had me laughing so hard I nearly threwup.

When did I do that, or are you making things up?

As for the rest of your list, I have read the novels, not seen the movies for the simple fact they are changed almost beyond recognition in the majority of cases. (...) In every example that can be put forward the US military is shown to be incompetent and unfeeling, if not outright evil. The hero invariably is the free spirit fighting the system.

That appears to be a contradiction. If you don’t watch Hollywood war movies (which may or may not be a good thing), you can’t know that “in every example (...) the US military is shown to be (...) evil.” I’m not criticizing your intelligence--heck, I wish I hadn’t seen Independence Day--but I just question how you can make such absolute statements about the cinema when you don’t view it very often.

Hollywood war films are notoriously pro-military.

Only Dave would think that being “pro-military” is something that is “notorious.”

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

dave, just got home. Let me deal with email onload and go checkout Mr. Robb’s book. Then we can move forward.

There has been a slow tilt toward more nationalist favorable movies and network programing in the last 6>8 yrs, on the whole. To try and say Hollywood,or media in general, is supportive of the military is rather naive.

With the exception of a handful of movies in the years immediately following the end of the Vietnam War (Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, and the films of Oliver Stone and a few other maverick directors, like Samuel Fuller), Hollywood military films have always been notoriously* pro-military. I’m puzzled as to why you think this is a recent trend (past 6-8 years)… why would this trend begin during the middle of an unpopular war?

It hasn’t begun in the past 6-8 years; it’s always been there. (In fact, I would argue that in the past 6-8 years we’ve actually seen an increase in films with an anti-military message, only because we’ve seen an increase in the availability of independent films, as well as an increase in overall riskiness on behalf of film producers and distributors. I mean, did you EVER see any anti-war films in the 1940s? Studios would release just a dozen or so films a year; they just couldn’t afford to take any chances on something controversial, like an anti-war film.)

I stopped watching military oriented/action adventure movies in the late ’80s. Precisely because of the underlying moralistic subtext.

I would give them another chance. Avoid films by Oliver Stone and Stanley Kubrick and you should be fine. You’ll miss out artistically, of course, but your idealistic view of the Armed Forces will remain intact.

And yes, I do have a high enough opinion of you to think you understand what I am saying.

Well, I don’t. What do you mean by saying I promulgated “vast rightwing conspiracy” theories?

*As in “widely known”.

dave, I scrubbed David L. Robb through 3 different searchengines, all I found was reference to the book you mentioned. I stopped watching military oriented/action adventure movies in the late ‘80s. Precisely because of the underlying moralistic subtext. And yes, I do have a high enough opinion of you to think you understand what I am saying. So please do not piss on my head and try to tell me it is raining. There has been a slow tilt toward more nationalist favorable movies and network programing in the last 6>8 yrs, on the whole. To try and say Hollywood,or media in general, is supportive of the military is rather naive.

Continually shifting the point of argument. Real good. I tried.

I have no idea what you are talking about.