Say Anything Blog

Have to respect a guy who spent a few years killing
Republicans.

[...] Bite Sized Wisdom: George Orwell By Rob on October 29, 2005 at 12:00 pm [...]

There are two categories of people in this world...those who place people in categories and those who don’t.

There are two kinds of people in this world:  Those who think there are two kinds of people in this world and those who don’t.
Seriously, that small group has become the majority of the Dem party.

Seriously, that small group has become the majority of the Dem party.

congrats, you’re one of them as well.

I meant the freedom haters.  I am definitely not one of them.  Nice try, though.

I had one objection to Orwell’s writing:

But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism

For it to be apropos today, it would have to say “But here is a majority of intellectual pacifists...”

For some “pacifists”, there really is no action that a totalitarian dictator can do that they will not excuse, nor any action that the US or Great Britain do that they won’t severely criticize.

Carrick:  Exactly.

If the majority of them hadn’t voted for war in Afghanistan they would have lost their jobs.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Number of Democratic congressmen who voted FOR military action against Afghanistan after 9/11: 204

Number of Democratic congressmen who voted AGAINST military action against Afghanistan after 9/11: 1 (Barbara Lee, D-CA)

Bunch of pacifists if I ever saw ‘em!

Oh.... but you know that they actually WANTED to vote against it, right? Cool.

I don’t think that anyone, except the legislators themselves, know how they actually wanted to vote.  But we can all speculate, and my opinion is that a lot of them probably wouldn’t have.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The easy way to tell is to listen to what they have to say now, after they have calculated that the war is no longer popular.

Dave:

Bunch of pacifists if I ever saw ‘em! 

There some logic flaws with this.  First, these people are politicians, so their votes are often measured in terms of expediency and what their constituents want, and not their personal views… basically Rob’s point.  The second problem, is that nobody said anything about what the congress critters thought.  Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of Cindy Sheehan Michael Moore.

Knowing what they believe gets a bit complicated, since they could believe in the war personally, but oppose it for political reasons.  As Robert108 points out, though, once the pressure is off, you can see which ones became total loony tunes, and that is the sort of person Orwell was describing.

I view people like Dick Durbin and John Kerry as political opportunists, people like Ted Kennedy as ideologues.  If I were to put anybody in congress in the category that Orwell was talking about, it would be people like John Conyers.

There some logic flaws with this. First, these people are politicians, so their votes are often measured in terms of expediency and what their constituents want, and not their personal views… basically Rob’s point.

So.... “I think Bush wants to turn this country into a Theocracy. Unfortunately, he knows that if he did that, he’d lose his job.”

What’s the point of saying things like that? Let’s work with the facts, and see where they take us.

carrick and robert, commenting on how people will criticize the US no matter what...do you recognize that a huge portion of silent political observers would see you as thinking the same way in favor of the current administration? This blog is republican propoganda if there ever was such a thing...sometimes it’s like you’re all on edge about an issue until the white house tells you what to think. Political cheerleaders.

that doesn’t change anything...people see you as a blind republocrat because for all practical purposes you are. You play their games according to their rules stories, but if cheaters are making and enforcing the rules it’s all gone to crap. The fact that you’re over 40 only tells me you’ve been subject to a whole line of political conditioning that’s ridiculously outdated but works to keep an aging generation in line. Do you see how you could be seen as a republocrat cheerleader? Do you see how this blog is republican propoganda?

I don’t deal in intellectual abstractions.

okay, but....

When I was a kid, we didn’t know if communism would win or not. Now we know. We won.

Communism is as abstract as you can get. Democracy is just as abstract. Can communism win vs. what? who are the ACTUAL PEOPLE involved and what are they ACTUALLY DOING. These -ism’s and -ocracy’s are baloney. They don’t exist. People doing things to other people is what exists. Your way of thinking (just about everybody who’s politically vocal in fact) is outdated, and needs to disappear. Common sense, not some stoic salutation to an abstract cause fronted by businessmen, is what people want.

KIS:  In a word, no.  Nothing you said in your post is true of me. My knowledge of the world is mine, won by experience and tested in the real world.  I don’t deal in intellectual abstractions.  When I was a kid, we didn’t know if communism would win or not.  Now we know.  We won.  Free people making free choices is the best system in this world so far, hands down.  That isn’t propaganda, it is the truth.  My life didn’t start with the Clinton Administration.  I have lived through FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, and now Bush 2.  I have seen how well certain philosophies and ideologies work and how they impact the country.  I have been an employer and an employee, have owned a number of businesses.  I even worked for the govt a few times.  The only line of political conditioning I have encountered comes from the left.  They lie, because if they told the truth, they would never be elected to anything.  They have, in my lifetime, taken over the Democrat Party.  It used to be the Labor Party, then it became the Welfare Party, then the Party of European Socialism, and now it seems to be the Hate the US AntiWar Party.  No wonder they have to lie.

Ideology becomes real when people use it to create reality for others.  Communism enslaves and kills people in the name of creating equality of outcome and social justice.  Free Enterprise creates free people making free choices, freedom of thought, and individual independence.  Those realities are not abstract.  Would you rather live in Cuba or the US?  That is as real as it gets.  How about a nice place in North Korea or China?  Any takers? You wouldn’t be able to express yourself freely in a blog in any of those places.  You seem to subscribe to the belief that there are no bad ideologies, just bad people.  The connection between ideology and outcome is pretty consistent, so maybe you are mistaken there.

KIS:  I have been a conservative since 1962, when I took my first Econ class.  I am not on any email list from the White House.  My truths are hard-won, by life experience.  Where do you get yours? The truth is not propaganda.

KIS:

do you recognize that a huge portion of silent political observers would see you as thinking the same way in favor of the current administration?

This blog is republican propoganda if there ever was such a thing

Dave:

So…. “I think Bush wants to turn this country into a Theocracy. Unfortunately, he knows that if he did that, he’d lose his job.”
What’s the point of saying things like that? Let’s work with the facts, and see where they take us.

I agree with sticking with facts.  There shouldn’t be any debate, that people in congress are politicians and behave as such.  That, sir, is a fact.

While there are probably as many ways of “playing the part” of a politician as there are politicians, I think it is possible to divide them up into general categories of “political personalities”.  One should never get confused by the fact that how they behave in public is often at odds with their personal set of morals and ethics---and frankly that is how it should be:  We voted them in to represent us, and so their moral and ethical decision making should factor in the constituencies moral and ethical frameworks as well.  Democracy works because a collection of individuals---fully informed---is more intelligent than anyone individual every could be.

You can stick to the facts, but people are human is one of the most important facts in this particular political calculus.

Carl B. holier than thou holier than marty get a grip keep it simple said, This blog is republican propoganda if there ever was such a thing…sometimes it’s like you’re all on edge about an issue until the white house tells you what to think. Political cheerleaders.

About what? Just give us one subject where the above is true.

that doesn’t change anything…people see you as a blind republocrat because for all practical purposes you are.

Correction: YOU see Carrick as a “blind republocrat” (nice word there chief).

Can communism win vs. what? who are the ACTUAL PEOPLE involved and what are they ACTUALLY DOING. These -ism’s and -ocracy’s are baloney. They don’t exist.

I’m sure that the world will be surprised to learn that communism doesn’t exist.

People doing things to other people is what exists.

Yes. And in places like China, merely mentioning a word like “democracy” will get you thrown into jail. What do you think enables this Carl B. holier than thou holier than marty get a grip keep it simple?

Your way of thinking (just about everybody who’s politically vocal in fact) is outdated, and needs to disappear. Common sense, not some stoic salutation to an abstract cause fronted by businessmen, is what people want.

What does this even mean?

Job entitlement isn’t a part of Free Enterprise.  The jobs go where they do the most good.  Things are only worth what people are willing to pay for them.  This is the equality of outcome part of your antiquated philosophy.  In answer to your first question:  I don’t know.  Opposing opinions are wrong, so it doesn’t matter.  Like I said before, this is not abstract thinking for me, where things are just a matter of opinion.  The truth here is known, so it’s really just a matter of putting it into practice.

Communism enslaves and kills people in the name of creating equality of outcome and social justice. Free Enterprise creates free people making free choices, freedom of thought, and individual independence

play your own devil’s advocate: how would someone with directly opposing opinions phrase that?

How about a nice place in North Korea or China? Any takers? You wouldn’t be able to express yourself freely in a blog in any of those places.

Free Enterprise creates free people making free choices, freedom of thought, and individual independence.

“Free Enterprise” also takes jobs away from americans to send to those and other “evil” places. It’s ACTUAL PEOPLE that call the shots, not the abstract ideology they’re supposed to adhere to.