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Tuesday, October 11, 2005

SCOTUS Rejects Wiccan Case

Cynthia Simpson, who stopped by to comment on this previous post on her story, just had her case rejected by the Supreme Court.

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court rejected an appeal on Tuesday from a Wiccan priestess angry that local leaders would not let her open their sessions with a prayer.

Instead, clergy from more traditional religions were invited to pray at governmental meetings in Chesterfield County, Va., a suburb of Richmond.

Lawyers for Cynthia Simpson had told justices in a filing that most of the invocations are led by Christians. Simpson said she wanted to offer a generalized prayer to the "creator of the universe."

Wiccans consider themselves witches, pagans or neo-pagans, and say their religion is based on respect for the Earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons.

Simpson sued and initially won before a federal judge who said the county's policy was unconstitutional because it stated a preference for a set of religious beliefs.

Simpson lost at the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which found that the county had changed its policy and directed clerics to avoid invoking the name of Jesus. . . .

The county "issues invitations to deliver prayers to all Christian, Muslim, and Jewish religious leaders in the country. It refuses to issue invitations to Native Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Wiccans, or members of any other religion," justices were told in her appeal by American Civil Liberties Union lawyer Rebecca Glenberg.

The county's attorney, Steven Micas, said that the county's practice was in line with the Supreme Court's endorsement of legislative prayer as long as it did not proselytize, advance or disparage a particular religion.


Apparently the removal of "Jesus" from the invocations makes them sufficiently bland to slide under the 1st amendment limitations on state-sponsored religion. Really, though, after all this trouble and expense I'd probably, if I were running things in Chesterfield County, just forgo the prayers and get down to county business. Seems like a terrible waste of time and taxpayer money to me. And leave it to the ACLU to say that if you want pray and county meetings you must pray to every religious deity ever imagined by the denizens of this earth. In order to be fair, of course.

Anyway, this from the same article made me bust out laughing:

Simpson is a member of a group known as the Broom Riders Association.


I think I've got a new slogan for the ACLU:

Defending The Right Of Crackpots To Be A Pain In The Ass

Comments

Avatar for Dave

Really, though, after all this trouble and expense I’d probably, if I were running things in Chesterfield County, just forgo the prayers and get down to county business.

What? How can you possibly debate an increase in the fines on parking tickets without first praying to the Creator of the Universe? wink
Dave on October 11, 2005 at 03:10 pm
Avatar for Marty

Oh, and self professed “Broom Riders” better stay the heck away from my kids… i’m not kidding about that.

Marty on October 11, 2005 at 04:10 pm
Avatar for Marty

I’m confused.  Who is Cynthia Simpson?  Who is Darla Wynne?

Marty on October 11, 2005 at 04:11 pm
Avatar for Sphagnum

Marty, you must not let your kids out on Halloween, eh? hehe…

Neither would I…

Sphagnum on October 11, 2005 at 06:10 pm
Avatar for modern instances

The irony of evangelicals accusing homosexuals of recruiting never ceases to amaze me.

modern instances on October 11, 2005 at 07:10 pm
Avatar for modern instances

Look, if they didn’t have the prayer, this dinky town council would have nothing to talk about.

modern instances on October 11, 2005 at 07:10 pm
Avatar for Dave

Oh, and self-professed “Christ worshipers” better stay the heck away from my kids… i’m not kidding about that.

Dave on October 11, 2005 at 07:10 pm
Avatar for Sphagnum

The irony of evangelicals accusing homosexuals of recruiting never ceases to amaze me.

The heck are you talking about?

Sphagnum on October 11, 2005 at 08:10 pm
Avatar for Dave

Look, if they didn’t have the prayer, this dinky town council would have nothing to talk about.

I’m reminded of this article for some reason… smile

Dave on October 11, 2005 at 08:11 pm
Avatar for modern instances

The heck are you talking about?

Anti-gay proponents will often refer to the “homosexual agenda,” which includes recruiting people to be gay.  I find it ironic that evangelicals and other religious groups that engage in missionary work (recruiting) would use this line of argument.

modern instances on October 12, 2005 at 06:11 am
Avatar for Sphagnum

Why is that ironic?  Recruiting someone into Godly life and service is a noble and right thing to do while there is absolutely nothing noble about recruiting someone into a lifestyle of of homosexuality.

And btw, I’d challenge your position that this reference to homosexual-recruiting happens anything close to often

Sphagnum on October 12, 2005 at 01:10 pm
Avatar for modern instances

Why is that ironic? Recruiting someone into Godly life and service is a noble and right thing to do while there is absolutely nothing noble about recruiting someone into a lifestyle of homosexuality.

While our opinions differ in regard to the second sentence, what is ironic is that recruiting is seen as good, except when the goal of the recruitment differs from what one group desires.

And btw, I’d challenge your position that this reference to homosexual-recruiting happens anything close to often…

Yeah, it’s not as prevalent anymore, I guess I’m dating myself.  Now that people understand that sexuality is not something one chooses, the “recruiting” argument has lost its appeal.

modern instances on October 12, 2005 at 02:10 pm
Rob
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While our opinions differ in regard to the second sentence, what is ironic is that recruiting is seen as good, except when the goal of the recruitment differs from what one group desires.

I’ve honestly never heard of gays recruiting other people to be homosexuals.  Hitting on other people, sure, but recruiting?  Its the first time I’ve heard it put like that.

But your point is sort of lame MI.  I think that recruiting for the Ku Klux Klan is bad, but don’t really have a problem with Catholics doing missionary work.

Is that “ironic?”


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on October 12, 2005 at 06:10 pm
Avatar for modern instances

I’ve honestly never heard of gays recruiting other people to be homosexuals. Hitting on other people, sure, but recruiting? Its the first time I’ve heard it put like that.

This was a fallacy that some anti-gay activists used to propogate in the 80s, early 90s.  They claimed that, since gays couldn’t reproduce, they had to recruit other people to be gay with them.  It was all part of the “homosexual agenda” thing.  Again, it’s a concept now discarded, and rightfully so.

But your point is sort of lame MI. I think that recruiting for the Ku Klux Klan is bad, but don’t really have a problem with Catholics doing missionary work.

It was a throwaway line, nothing more.  I still think it’s ironic that people who condone recruiting in one case condemn recruitment in another case, but again, it’s an anachronistic comparison now.

modern instances on October 12, 2005 at 06:10 pm
Rob
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I still think it’s ironic that people who condone recruiting in one case condemn recruitment in another case, but again, it’s an anachronistic comparison now.

I guess I’m not getting it.  Personally, I’d judge recruiting efforts on what it was the people were being recruited for.

Recruiting for terrorist organizations: bad.

Recruiting for military service: excellent.

There’s nothing ironic about that.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on October 12, 2005 at 06:10 pm
Avatar for raven

How can any of you non-wiccans out there even comment on anything like this when really you don’t know what you are talking about.  All we want is some equality and recognition.  I admire Simpson in the fact that she has the guts to take this to court.  I wish that more of us - I say us because I too am a WITCH - had the gumption to stand up for our rights.
And Marty, if you want us to stay away from your kids, start homeschooling them.

raven on January 12, 2006 at 12:01 am
Avatar for 2Hotel9

raven, stop running around screaming"I’m a wiccan” and people wont treat you like an idiot. Beleive anything you want, act like a normal person, and people will treat you like one. How hard is that to figure out?

2Hotel9 on January 12, 2006 at 02:01 am
Avatar for Marty

Of course my kids are homeschooled.  Do you think i’m insane enough to entrust them to self-professed witches?

Marty on January 12, 2006 at 02:01 am
Avatar for 2Hotel9

donnie! Where been hiding? You certainly can give her lessons in how to gain widespread acceptance. Some pointers from the Don Meyers school of Charm. That will make people accept her.

2Hotel9 on January 12, 2006 at 03:01 am
Avatar for 2Hotel9

You already have equal rights.

2Hotel9 on January 12, 2006 at 03:01 am
Avatar for Don Myers

raven, stop running around screaming”I’m a wiccan” and people wont treat you like an idiot

yeah Raven---be like 2 and PROVE that you’re an idiot!

Beleive anything you want, act like a normal person…

In 2’s world “normal” means being a paranoid, nearly-illiterate stooge of the Bush regime. Thanks, but I’ll pass.

Don Myers on January 12, 2006 at 03:01 am
Avatar for Don Myers

I’ve no interest in being accepted by the likes of you, big head.

Don Myers on January 12, 2006 at 03:01 am
Avatar for Don Myers

All we want is some equality and recognition. I admire Simpson in the fact that she has the guts to take this to court.

Me too, Raven. As a supporter of equal rights for ALL Americans---one of very few on this blog---I admire Simpson as well. NOT for the actual thing with the city council, but for making the point that some Americans aren’t Jesus worshipers, and deserve not to have jesus rammed down our throats.

Personally I hope the city council abolishes the public prayer entirely. It’s kinda vulgar.

Don Myers on January 12, 2006 at 03:02 am
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