Say Anything Blog

The state flag of South Carolina includes a crescent. So does the logo of The Christian coalition. Islam is not to blame for 9/11. Even Dear Leader acknowledges that much.

The state flag of South Carolina includes a crescent. So does the logo of The Christian coalition.

That’s irrelevant.  Keep this in context.  We’re talking about a memorial to people killed by Islamic extremists.  Islamic symbolism has no place there.

Islam is not to blame for 9/11. Even Dear Leader acknowledges that much.

Nobody is saying that Islam is to blame for 9/11.  The simple fact of the matter is, however, that everyone of the people who perpetrated the attacks on 9/11 were Islamic.  Thus it is highly inappropriate for a memorial to the events of that day to include Islamic symbolism, be it an inadvertent inclusion or not.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I see you’re jumping on the fake-outrage-of-the-week bandwagon, Rob. However, I appreciate that you resisted the urge to follow the herd for a full 24 hours. Good job!

Y’know that the trees are only red a few weeks out of the year, right?

Besides, where you see a crescent I see a blog that is brought to you by the letter “C.”

The tectonic plates must be shifting; there seem to be a lot of molehills turning into mountains lately.

The only appropriate memorial is mound of arab muslim extremist bodies.  Anything else is a betrayal.

So by your logic, the Oklahoma City memorial should avoid the use of crosses, because Timothy McVeigh, the perpetrator of the federal building attack, was a Christian.

Does the Oklahoma City memorial have crosses?  I don’t know.  Would it bother me?  No.  Why?  Because most of the victims were no doubt Christian.  Thus the crosses, if they exist, would be honoring the victims and not the attackers.  Which is an appropriate display.

A red crescent, undeniably an Islamic symbol, has no place at a memorial to the victims of an Islamic terrorism attack.

I know what your next reponse will be: No true Christian would ever bomb a building and take innocent lives!

I wouldn’t jump to conclusions if I were you.  I’m no Christian and certainly don’t operate under any misconceptions of human nature.

The tectonic plates must be shifting; there seem to be a lot of molehills turning into mountains lately.

I really don’t see where I’m making that big of a deal out of it.  I’m not making any dire accusations, just pointing out that the crescent shape can be perceived as inappropriate.

It wouldn’t be that big of a deal to change it, would it?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The only appropriate memorial is mound of arab muslim extremist bodies.

Amen!  In fact, instead of a crucifix, I think churches should have mounds of Jews behind the altar.  Oh, and a memorial to victims of the Crusades should have piles of Christians.

So by your logic, the Oklahoma City memorial should avoid the use of crosses, because Timothy McVeigh, the perpetrator of the federal building attack, was a Christian.

I know what your next reponse will be: No true Christian would ever bomb a building and take innocent lives!

To which I respond: And no true Muslim would hijack an airliner and take innocent lives!

Your move.

Good point, but how do we get them from Iraq to Pennsylvania?

So if the Red Crescent is obviously an Islamic symbol, then how was it inadvertantly overlooked by the committee of landscape architects, artists, and public officials who no doubt spent hundreds of collective hours on this proposed memorial? Just curious. Maybe they haven’t heard of About.com:

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years.  Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods.  There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

And where exactly is the “star” in this Islamic symbol, inadvertantly proposed for the fields of Pennsylvania? Because it seems that a crescent, by itself, represents Islam in the same way a hammer, by itself, represents to World Communist Party.

Kind of torn here. The crescent either red or gold is used in all communist flags as well.

If I recall correctly the OKC memorial monuments kind of look like chairs.

I am not sure that crosses are appropriate.

The one point that I totally agree with is that a lot of thought went into the design and if the designers id not see it then it may not be that big of a deal. I guess what I am trying to say is that if we hold off until we get something that everybody agrees with we will never have a monument. People see all kinds of crazy shit in stuff and others buy it.

Islam is not to blame for 9/11.

That’s a joke. The Quran contains numerous verses justifying, condoning, and even recommending acts of violence in the name of Islam.

When the terrorists were steering this Flight 93 into the ground, the Muslims weren’t chanting “Oh no! We’re gonna die!”. No, if memory serves, it was “Allah is great, Allah is great!”

I don’t like judging people. I don’t think black people are inherently violent, and I don’t think Asians are inherently bad drivers, etc. But Muslims aren’t people, per se: they are followers of an ideological religion. Observing that Muslims are followers of a religion that condones terrorism is no different from observing that Catholics follow a religion that condemns abortion.

Yes, and the KKK appropriated the cross for its own flag and ceremonies. But so what? It really is all about intent. New Orleans doesn’t call itself the Crescent City because of the abundance of mosques and trumpet playing muezzins.

Yes, and Christianity was responsible for the Holocaust, no doubt. Get a life, Dave.

Observing that Muslims are followers of a religion that condones terrorism is no different from observing that Catholics follow a religion that condemns abortion.

This is so wrong that I am speechless...which is probably a good thing.

So you condemn Christianity for the Holocaust?

And you also disagree with George Bush when he says Islam is not to blame for 9/11.

Interesting. Let’s test your logical consistency, shall we? Do you blame guns for gun related violence, or the individuals who apply those weapons?

This is so wrong that I am speechless…

Is it wrong, or does it disturb you that it is right?

Heraldblog wrote:

Yes, and Christianity was responsible for the Holocaust, no doubt.

Nominally. The complicity of the Catholic Church during the Holocaust is striking (the Church opened up its genealogical records to the Nazis to allow them to trace a person’s Jewish ancestry, among others). It’s difficult to imagine the Holocaust happening if the Nazis didn’t have thousands of years of Christian hatred and mistrust of Jews on their side.

Red herring, but Both. I blame the individual for his act of violence as well as the means with which he carries it out; just as I believe that the religion of Islam as well as the individuals who chose to follow that religion are to blame for the attacks of 9/11.

It’s wrong. I don’t equate the KKK with followers of Christianity and I don’t equate the IRA with followers of Catholicism so why would I equate 9-11 terrorists with followers of Islam? Should I equate executives of Enron with followers of Adam Smith? I think not.

Dave is pulling our leg. Nobody is that obstinate.

Islam is not to blame for 9/11

Nobody is saying that Islam is to blame for 9/11.

What rocks have you guys been hiding under? 

I’ll say it, Islam was to blame for 9/11.  As Dave said.

Dave isn’t pulling your leg, he makes a good point (except that the gun comment is kind of disturbing, but I’d have to hear him expand on that before I made up my mind).

Regardless, the point is this: The passengers on flight 93 were the victims of extremist muslims.  Because of that I see no reason why we should have anything even resembling a Muslim symbol at the memorial.

I mean, the memorial hasn’t even been built yet.  The plans can be changed.  Resistance to changing them seems to be nothing more than knee-jerk partisanship on the part of leftists who just like to disagree with everything people on the right say.

I really don’t see this as a left/right issue though.  Its just common sense.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Michael, my point was that blaming Islam for 9/11 isn’t really the issue here.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I’ll say it, Islam was to blame for 9/11. As Dave said.

[...] Previous post about the memorial here. [...]

One more time: The symbol of Islam is the crescent and star. There is no star in the proposed memorial. What if the memorial contained a star but no crescent? The crescent is a symbol for a waning phase of the moon. It’s an artistic form that I suppose could even lend function to an architectural design. Jeez, can’t you moonbats find something else to whine about?

One more time: The symbol of Islam is the crescent and star. There is no star in the proposed memorial.

On the map, what is point #4 supposed to be?  Looks like the right place for a star…

Why would they use RED Maples to line the Crescent?  In fact… Why use a Crescent at all? 
from the Flight 93 memorial web site

Through the gesture of embrace, a curving landform formally de.nes the edge of the Bowl. The CRESCENT OF EMBRACE enhances the form and monumental scale of the Bowl to commemorate the heroic actions of the passengers and crew of Flight 93. An allee of Red Maple trees gently descends around the Bowl, crossing the wetlands, to the focal point of the Bowl, the Sacred Ground. Behind the walkway occur forty groves of Sugar and Red Maples and a ring road that leads to parking near the Sacred Ground.

Back to HeraldBlog

What if the memorial contained a star but no crescent?

Then it would be much more like symbols that Americans use… We do use Stars from time to time in our symbols… Crescents are infrequent, at best.

The crescent is a symbol for a waning phase of the moon.

Which has to do with Flight 93, How?????

It’s an artistic form that I suppose could even lend function to an architectural design.

Besides looking like the red crescent that is associated with Islam and that it points to Mecca, I don’t see much ART here.  Maybe you do…

Jeez, can’t you moonbats find something else to whine about?

We whine and pine about a great number of things.  If you don’t like it… head out.

Is this Memorial being made with public funds, or is it private?

Gee, I thought this was a blog where I could say anything.

You can and have, and you said this:

Jeez, can’t you moonbats find something else to whine about?

I simply told you to find another place if you don’t want to read us “whine” about it.  Say what you want, other than outright fabrications about the proprietor or spam, we don’t care.  No one is censoring you… but I can say “then go away”, can’t I?

Gee, I thought this was a blog where I could say anything. I don’t see much art here, either.

Is this Memorial being made with public funds, or is it private?

It’s actually being made with both.

That would have been a good point though, Dave.  If its private funds they certainly have a right to do what they want.  Wouldn’t make the Mecca-facing crescent any less inappropriate, but this is a free country.

Since its public funds one can only hope that those responsible will change the design to something a bit less controversial.  I mean, I know some of you don’t see a problem with this, but there are a lot of people upset by it.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I abhor the followers of Islam more than almost anyone I know, Rob (I hope I have made that abundantly clear). I just don’t see anything wrong with the Memorial. We have a helluva lot bigger problems to focus on.

We have a helluva lot bigger problems to focus on.

Well, in my personal life I have bigger problems to focus on then mowing my lawn...but that doesn’t mean I’m going to stop mowing it.

As for the memorial, it sounds like its going to be changed.  Which is a good thing.  Maybe you don’t think its such a big deal, but I do.  I’m sure nobody meant to have the memorial look like a great big Islamic symbol, but it did.  And that’s inappropriate no matter how you try to slice it.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I think our time would be be better spent eradicating Islam, rather than Islamic symbols.

We have a helluva lot bigger problems to focus on.

“We” do have a lot bigger problems.  But the folks or should I say heroes of flight 93 deserve something better than a memorial that even looks close to a symbol of Islam.

The memorial is not for us.  Remember that.

I think our time would be be better spent eradicating Islam, rather than Islamic symbols.

Time even better spent would be helping me clean out my basement. I really need more space down there.

How would you all feel if a majority of Flight 93 families approved of the design?

How would you feel if the majority of flight 93 families condemned the design?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The same way you would feel either way.

[...] First they get our 9/11 memorials, now our fast food. What next? [...]