Say Anything Blog

how about you point out to me how you know for sure that the person with the bags came out of the store

OK. I’ll do that as soon as anybody can do the same for the people identified as “looters” in the other photos.

We’ve actually got two examples here. Two photos from AP, one in which the caption identifies the subject as a looter and one that has a man “looking through” a bag. There’s no difference in the visual evidence of criminality in the two photos.

We have a second example of two photos from AFP. AFP is often criticized for its use of nonjudgmental terminology, so I wasn’t surprised at the way they captioned the picture above. I came to the same conclusion you did when I saw this photo compared with the AP photo. But if you compare the photo above with the AFP photo posted at Prometheus 6, you see that AFP doesn’t have problems using the term “looter.”

And as long as we’re playing the “you’re jumpting to conclusions” game, show me where I called anybody racist.

The “liberal” media is getting support from unexpected sources today.

You’re right that the two photos shown here are from different news services. Perhaps a better comparision would be between the first photo shown above (from AP) and this AP photo of a man “looking through his shopping bag.”

Well jeez, Quaker, how about you point out to me how you know for sure that the person with the bags came out of the store?  I said there might be an argument here.  I, unlike you, an hesitant to jump to conclusions.  Especially when said conclusions involve branding large groups of people as racist, unconscious or otherwise.

As for your other examples, did it ever occur to you that looting is a relative term?  As I pointed out in both the post and my comment, “looting” for groceries right now isn’t all that negative a thing.  And maybe there are so many black people in these pictures because the population of New Orleans 67% black.  Did that ever occur to you, or is easier to just jump to the racism idea because it fits better into your world view?

I mean, really, what’s your point?  That every person involved with these captions is unconsciously racist?

Give me a break.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Well, geez, Rob. Here’s what you said in your first post:

If we were talking about the same person writing both of these captions, or even both captions coming from the same news wire, then there might be an argument here for racism.

OK, you have two examples from the same news wire. In one, you have a looter. In the other, a man “looking through” a shopping bag.

Over at Prometheus 6, you can see another AFP photo that identifies the subjects as “looters.” Guess what color they are.

If you’re not trying to conclude that the media is guilty of some sort of pervasive and/or unconscious racism...then what exactly is your point?

OK. I’ll do that as soon as anybody can do the same for the people identified as “looters” in the other photos.

Well, you have to assume the photographer, who was on scene and viewed the activity live, has some input here.  If the person who took the photo observed them coming out of the store then that’s probably what goes into the caption.

But this is all sort of splitting hairs.  You’re the one trying to make broad indictments based on the captions of, what, two?  Three photos?

And, again, if these people are going into the store and taking good and then leaving again that’s pretty much the definition of looting.  Given the circumstances I’m not sure that looting food and such is bad (which is what all these pictures seem to be of).

Like I said, this is all much ado about nothing.  If you want to split hairs and scream about racist conspiracies, be my guest.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The point is that, in aggregate, we have a racist news media. Thank you for helping to confirm it… and remember, this is only one example. This does not mean that anyone intended bigotry, or even had any conscious bias. Please check this site:
The test you are about to take, known as the “Implicit Association Test,” offers one way to probe unconscious biases. In this 10-minute test, you will be presented with words or images and asked to respond as quickly as possible. At the end, your responses will be tallied…
UnderstandingPrejudice.org: Implicit Association Test
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/

Personally I would be wading through the water to find dry ground and an open store. Warm soda, soggy bread and a shit load of rising water hmmmmmmm.

How in the hell did JadeGold get back in here and posing as a quaker no less.

That’s still not very convincing, Quaker.  I mean, how do we know the person with the bag came out of the store?  And nothing is implied about the black man coming through the window.

I think a person has to work pretty hard to say there’s any racism here.  I’m not seeing it, nor am I convinced that “looting” for groceries in the New Orleans area right now is a bad thing.

People gotta eat.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Totally mis-fired on that last link.

Compare the AFP photo and caption above with another AFP photo at Prometheus 6.

Better?

Ok, fair enough.  I was probably reading an adversarial slant into comments where it didn’t exist.  I do that some times.  Things get pretty...adversarial here a lot. 

I apologize for that, and acknowledge your points even if I still don’t find them convincing as evidence of racism, unconscious or otherwise.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

If you want to split hairs and scream about racist conspiracies, be my guest.

Once again, I’m baffled. Maybe you can show me where I “screamed about racist conspiracies.”

What brought me here was your trackback at Oliver Willis’ blog. I clicked through to find out what you had posted. I’m commenting on your post. Nothing more.

You had posted the two photos that have been widely circulated. The point of your post seems to be here:

Evidence of racism, unconscious or otherwise? I don’t think so.

Your justification for this opinion seems to be here:

The photos are from two entirely separate news bureaus. Which means that two different people in two different offices wrote the captions. And people use words differently. There’s nothing sinister about it.

If we were talking about the same person writing both of these captions, or even both captions coming from the same news wire, then there might be an argument here for racism.

My comment was intended to provide the valid comparison your post said was missing: photo captions from the same wire service.

Make of it what you will.

Things get pretty…adversarial here a lot.

No they don’t.

YES THEY DO MIKE AND I CAN GOOGLE THE LINKS TO PROVE IT!

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

What I like is the MSNBC video footage from inside stores showing actual looting. Now THAT is first class journalism.

[...] Say Anything examines if there is racist hurricane coverage in the MSM. [...]

Rob said

Things get pretty…adversarial here a lot.

To which Mike wittily replied

No they don’t.

It’s an ironically humourous line...you said that things get adversarial and I immediaely contradicted you. Get it?

Either I am my own best audience or the Right is seriously lacking in the funny department these days.

It’s an ironically humourous line…you said that things get adversarial and I immediaely contradicted you. Get it?

Either I am my own best audience or the Right is seriously lacking in the funny department these days.

Good grief. Rob was playing along you doofus.

duh

duh

Apt answer.

What were you expecting Mike? “Oh that was so funny dude! Hardy har har.”? And when you didn’t get a comment along those lines you deduced that, “the Right is seriously lacking in the funny department these days.”

Okay,...now I’m laughing. But it’s not with you Mike, it’s at you.

That’s okay...I earned it.

I can testify that there wasn’t much looting in Grand Forks in 1997.

I don’t think anyone has problems with getting food, diapers etc.

I don’t see that difference in the two images above, Jo.

>>And as far as “looting” goes, lets remember that there’s a difference between looting for food and supplies and looting for DVD players and wide-screen televisions.

I don’t see that difference in the two images above, Jo.

Jo’s comment appears to be just a general statement Dave.

I’ve been searching wire service images for several hours now and I can only find the single “finders” example that appears in your post. Can you give me a reference for any other images?

Presumably you’ve seen the photographer’s comments by now? They are quoted and sourced at http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp

His entire quote posting follows:

Chris Graythen, Photographer, Photo Editor
new orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 6:10 PM on 08.31.05
->> Jeasus, I don’t belive how much crap I’m getting from this. First of all, I hope you excuse me, but I’m completely at the end of my rope. You have no Idea how stressful this whole disaster is, espically since I have not seen my wife in 5 days, and my parents and grand parents HAVE LOST THIER HOMES. As of right now, we have almost NOTHING.

Please stop emailing me on this one.

I wrote the caption about the two people who ‘found’ the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not ‘looted’ them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow. I wouldn’t have taken in, because I wouldn’t eat anything that’s been in that water. But I’m not homeless. (well, technically I am right now.)

I’m not trying to be politically correct. I’m don’t care if you are white or black. I spent 4 hours on a boat in my parent’s neighborhood shooting, and rescuing people, both black and white, dog and cat. I am a journalist, and a human being - and I see all as such. If you don’t belive me, you can look on Getty today and see the images I shot of real looting today, and you will see white and black people, and they were DEFINATELY looting. And I put that in the caption.

Please, please don’t argue symantics over this one. This is EXTREMELY serious, and I can’t even begin to convey to those not here what it is like. Please, please, be more concerned on how this affects all of us (watch gas prices) and please, please help out if you can.

This is my home, I will hopefully always be here. I know that my friends in this business across the gulf south are going through the exact same thing - and I am with them, and will do whatever I can to help. But please, please don’t email me any more about this caption issue.

And please, don’t yell at me about spelling and grammar. Im eating my first real meal (a sandwich) right now in 3 days.

When this calms down, I will be more than willing to answer any questions, just ask.

Thank you all -
-Chris Graythen

NYC Monkey:  Thanks for the link.

Graythen’s letter illustrates just how tough a job many of these reporters have.