Say Anything Blog

Disgusting.

These groups claim to be for “peace” and yet they support those whose existence is validated by making war against the UNited States and her allies.

It’s such a sham, and the scandal is that the media (with a few exceptions, like Bill O’Reilly) willfully bury their heads in the sand and ignorre this stuff. These groups need to be called out for what they are, and in high-profile fashion, if for no other reason than to let regular Americans understand what they really stand for.

I’d like to see what people think of the antiwar movement after they have the whole story on who the antiwar groups really are.

The best way for death-loving fascists and communists to feign legitimacy is to masquerade as front organizations that preach “peace”.  They want peace alright, its the cost in human lives to achieve that peace that is too high.  For them to achieve that peace means the liquidation of anyone with dissenting ideas or opinions.  It is time to out these groups for what they really are.

It does have the advantage of showing to those who otherwise might not know it, that the government professoriate has great affinity for those who give aid and comfort to the enemies, adhering to their cause.

Sluggo wrote:

communists

Wha....? I didn’t know their views on fiscal issues.

So for how long has the Campus Anti-War Network opposed the private ownership of property?

[...] Case in point: the anti-war groups who joined and sponsored a world tribunal which justified the actions of terrorist insurgents against our troops in Iraq. [...]

You can’t quote something out of context, Dave.  You should quote the entire sentence, then comment on it.

CAN is a communist organization.  I went to the site and read what they advocate.  Their writings mirror the communist propaganda put out by the USSR and the “useful idiots” in the US over the past 60 years.  For them to achieve their goals, million of Americans would have to perish.  They even admit their solidarity with the “insurgents”.  These “insurgents” are the same ones who attacked us on 9-11 and are now killing innocent Iraqi women and children with suicide bombers from Yemen and Saudi Arabia. 

It seems to me that CAN, etc.. are organizations which care more for furthering their political world-view, than actually having anything even resembling peace and freedom.  “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”.  Socialists see the West as their enemy and the Islamists see the West as their enemy; therefore for them to join forces would be naturally in their best interest.  At least until the West is brought down.

“You are either with us or with the terrorists”.  These groups have made it known whose side they are on.  Why don’t you tell us who’s side your on Dave?

“You are either with us or with the terrorists”. These groups have made it known whose side they are on. Why don’t you tell us who’s side your on Dave?

Excellent question!

I am, as many of you already know, on the side of the terrorists, in large part due to my overwhelming hatred of the USA. Every night, in fact, I pray to Allah for the blood of the infidel Americans to come pouring through the streets like water from the Euphrates.

On which side are you in this contentious debate, Sluggo?

I am, as many of you already know, on the side of the terrorists, in large part due to my overwhelming hatred of the USA. Every night, in fact, I pray to Allah for the blood of the infidel Americans to come pouring through the streets like water from the Euphrates.

Dave is cracking guys.

I don’t know about Dave cracking, but it would be interesting to see him address the actual point in the post rather than trying to change the subject.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I know nothing at all about CAN. Perhaps they are communists. I don’t know. Let’s assume, hypothetically, that you are right.

It seems to me that CAN, etc.. are organizations which care more for furthering their political world-view, than actually having anything even resembling peace and freedom. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Socialists see the West as their enemy and the Islamists see the West as their enemy; therefore for them to join forces would be naturally in their best interest.

That could be true of many things, however. Many of those Christian conservative organizations (you know, the ones with “Family” in their name) support some of the same things as ‘Islamists’ do (they both hate social liberalism, for example… and I’m sure they both want more religion in the public square). Yet they would never issue a statement saying the insurgents’ actions were justified.

What I believe is that these anti-war organizations aren’t actively pursuing what you believe… the end result may be the same, but the intention is not. If CAN really is a communist group (I hope you provide some background on that, Sluggo), they probably believe that communism can lead to peace. Their intentions are noble, but their cause is not.

When college kids in the 70s had pictures of Ho Chi Minh on their wall, it wasn’t because they hated America; they actually (and very wrongfully) believed he was good for the Vietnamese. I think it’s the same here.

All you have to do is read the literature they provide links for on their site.  If you are aware of the rhetoric and ideology put forth by adherents to Marx, it is plain to see that they are of that religion.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it is a duck.  The believers in socialism have not changed their stripes in 60 years, they have only convinced others that they are not who they really are.  They are like wolves in sheep’s clothing, who will smile as they line you up to be shot for the sake of the revolution.

I study radical ideologies, so maybe it is just easier for me to see them.

Slug, a part of my training in counterinsurgency was indepth study of political ideaology and how it is used by all sides to their own ends. A dark and dismal place that can eat your soul if you let it. As bad as drug addiction. Marxism has attained the level of religion, in another hundered years it will have the trappings and vestments.  Dave, in the begining Ho Chi Minh was good for the Annamites. Then he took it too far, as socialists always do. Now his people are dead, as dead as the Hmong, the Nung, as dead as the Carthaginians. The current crop of Marxists is full of people who have not a single clue that is the path they are on. And when they become aware, if ever, of this small fact, it will be far to late to back track to something even remotely like where they think they are headed right now.

What I believe is that these anti-war organizations aren’t actively pursuing what you believe… the end result may be the same, but the intention is not.

The ends don’t justify the means.  These people deserve to have their faces rubbed in their own stupidity.

I also wish people on the left would stop making excuses for them.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Dave: you say that their intentions are noble but their cause is not, to which the obvious reply is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It’s not a well known saying for no reason.

It is too late, I’m already addicted to the study of political ideologies.  Blogs like this provide an outlet for me.  Sort of like intervention.

To the atheist and agnostic, any Christian is a fundmantalist. Once you get past such a simple rendering of things though, it becomes a little harder to say that the Republican party is quite so beholden to “fundamentalists”.

Many of those Christian conservative organizations (you know, the ones with “Family” in their name) support some of the same things as ‘Islamists’ do (they both hate social liberalism, for example… and I’m sure they both want more religion in the public square). Yet they would never issue a statement saying the insurgents’ actions were justified.

This is the plank in the right’s eye that they can’t see while pointing out the mote in the left’s.  They’ll pull up fringe groups like CAN, etc., but then ignore the religious fundamentalists who call the shots for the GOP.  It’s just stupid to say that blowing up Iraqi citizens is justified.  But it’s just as dangerous to turn a blind eye to fundamentalism here at home.

They’ll pull up fringe groups like CAN, etc., but then ignore the religious fundamentalists who call the shots for the GOP.

And by “religious fundamentalists” you, of course, mean those of us who oppose abortion and think that gay marriage is a state’s rights issue.

Which would mean that this atheist falls into the “religious fundamentalist” category.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

To the atheist and agnostic, any Christian is a fundmantalist.

If this simple rendering were true, I might agree.  I’m no deist, but my parents are both Christian, and they are far from fundamentalists. 

My dad’s as conservative as they come, but he’s sickened by the attempts of the Christian right to impose religion into the civil realm.  He considers his religion to be very personal, and doesn’t think that it belongs in public life.

My mom is liberal, yet probably the most devout Catholic I’ve ever met.  She’s been a “Eucharistic Minister” and member of the church council, and attends mass every Sunday.  But when it comes to church and state, she agrees with TJ that a wall of separation between them is the best thing for both.

Justice Sunday is a classic example of the Christian right’s intermingling of church and state.  Top Republicans, including Frist and Delay, make appearances at these events because they know that the religious activists hold the key to their support.

And by “religious fundamentalists” you, of course, mean those of us who (...) think that gay marriage is a state’s rights issue.

Rob, do you think the majority of people opposed to gay marriage base their objection on religion or federalism?

There are good, “secular” arguments against gay marriage. In my opinion, very few conservatives base their objections on those reasons.

That’s not saying they all follow the Book of Leviticus to a T… but I believe it’s safe to say that a majority of conservatives oppose gay marriage based on moral, religiously motivated opposition to homosexuality. Would you agree with that assertion?

World Tribunal on Iraq

Oh come on MI, my point, if inartfully expressed, is that to a good many of the non-religious, people who do openly profess faith seem like fundamentalists in comparision.

Try an experiment: for one month, oply profess to have found faith in God. See what kind of a reaction you get from non-religious people. I guarantee you that a good number will be openly scornful.

I mean, really, what marks one as a fundamentalist? A belief that it should be ok to talk about God or pray in a public place?

Thanks, Declaration, you really made your point well.

Hussein, Bush, Blair : How many civilians have they killed ?

(Hint: Arrest of terrorists is not always based on the number of victims they made.)

Ooooh! 20 questions! I love this game!

Is it bigger than a breadbox?

I’m with Seth, MI, your definition of “religious fundamentalist” seems a bit skewed to me.  What little definition you’ve provided, which has been vague at best.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob, this is my “favorite”:

3. Iraq has been under siege for years. The imposition of severe inhumane economic sanctions on 6 August 1990, the establishment of no-fly zones in the Northern and Southern parts of Iraq,[...].

Pretty amazing stuff.  We should all be enraged at the brutality of the American government in its interference with the sovereign government of Iraq with its right to kill its citizenry with poison gas attacks using fixed wing aircraft.

Nothing says “peace loving” more than protecting the rights of genocidal totalitarian despots to butcher his citizenry.

modern instances said, This is the plank in the right’s eye that they can’t see while pointing out the mote in the left’s. They’ll pull up fringe groups like CAN, etc., but then ignore the religious fundamentalists who call the shots for the GOP.

You say this often. Care to back it up?

Oh come on MI, my point, if inartfully expressed, is that to a good many of the non-religious, people who do openly profess faith seem like fundamentalists in comparision.

Well then say that, dude! 

I mean, really, what marks one as a fundamentalist? A belief that it should be ok to talk about God or pray in a public place?

Course not.  As I described above, “Justice Sunday” is a good example of fundamentalism.

MI, the premise of:

“We do not claim the right to speak for everyone but we do claim the right to speak, and speak we will, to the millions of Americans who share our values,” says Tony Perkins, President of Family Research Council.

Yes, that sounds like dangerous fundamentalism to me. Thanks for proving my point: to many, possibly most non-Christians, any but the most minimal of Christian stances are fundamentalist.

Values are good, except when held by a Christian. Then values are fundamentalist, and fundamentalism is bad. Did I get that “logic” right MI? Because it sure seems like you’re headed in that rhetorical direction, please say it ain’t so.

[...] I honestly don’t know how anyone can support this Code Pink group. Their founder is a Marxist and a big fan of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro. The group itself supported a world tribunal where the pre-war sanctions against Saddam Hussein for attacking neighboring country and gassing people to death were deemed inappropriate (so much for being for peace, eh?) and the cause of the terrorists fighting against our troops was called “legitimate” and “justified.” [...]