Say Anything Blog

I wonder when biased, poorly constructed, unfairly reported “polls” will be recognized for the danger they represent. What is the difference between a biased poll and an outright lie?  I fail to see any difference. And those who propagate such lies (fraud) should be held accountable. The day has passed when it is “fair” to damage a sitting President with slick distortions about both the President and the American people. The pollsters find it acceptable to misrepresent the American people and then feed that lie back to them as if it were a service.

[...] Whoa, back the truck up. Where is she getting the 61 percent figure? Is it from a poll like this one by the Associated Press? One that was manipulated to show a negative result for the President and/or the war in Iraq? I’m not willing to take Sheehan’s word on this number. If she wants to throw a number like that around I’m going to need to know some facts about how it came into existence. [...]

The bottom line is, I’m not sure I’m going to be trusting any more of these polls touted by the media. It just doesn’t seem like any of them are really all that representative of the true opinions and feelings of the people.

Well, you could tell pretty easily that this one wasn’t representative… which suggests that one needn’t be skeptical of all polls.  Let’s try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I have conducted a number of academic surveys using reputable firms (like Angus Reid Group) and I don’t think you can paint with such a broad brush.  The cell phone problem is real, but there are countermeasures.  And refusals that might bias the results have been around for a long time, so the same countermeasures work with “don’t call” lists.  (Legitimate political surveys aren’t included in “don’t call” lists anyway.)

By the way, to point out a problem that you might have missed: one thing that I rarely see mentioned in MSM about polls that identify approval or disapproval of Bush’s handling of the war is any attempt to distinguish between those who feel we’re not sufficiently invested and those who feel we’re too invested.  Believe it or not there are quite a few folks who think Bush is “too liberal,” and that we ought to be not only pressing the war against Syria and Iran, but that we also ought to engage against perfidious Arab media.  MSM and the anti-war Left always assume that disapproval signifies that the President is too “conservative” (warmongering).

[...] The Demosophist, posting at The Jawa Report in response to an earlier post I wrote, makes an excellent point about some of these polls concerning Iraq: By the way, to point out a problem that Rob didn’t discuss: one thing that I rarely see mentioned in MSM coverage concerning polls that identify approval or disapproval of Bush’s handling of the war is any attempt to distinguish between those who feel we’re not sufficiently invested and those who feel we’re too invested. Believe it or not there are quite a few folks who think Bush is “too liberal,” and that we ought to be not only pressing the war against Syria and Iran, but that we also ought to engage against perfidious Arab media. MSM and the anti-war Left always assume that disapproval signifies “too conservative” (warmongering), which is simply not the case. [...]

Demosophist, I actually responded to the these points when you made them in a post over at Jawa Report.

My response is here.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

[...] First off, there are some very serious questions about the AP-Ipsos poll referred to in the article. Its pretty clear to even the most casual observers of polling practices that the poll’s respondents were not a very representative selection of the American public. [...]

About Those Approval Polls Demosophist Rob on Say Anything makes some valid points about the AP poll that the anti-war movement always cites when they want to make the case that they’re now the majority. The party affiliation numbers suggests it’s not very representative of either the total or the voting population. He might be going

☺If we ordinary people are good at earning friends☺ Politicians are surly excellent at making enemies!!! !!! Look who suffer!!!

Is it the power of civilization? or civilization of the power?

the civilization of power - jengizkhan style.

Can you all remeber what the world said to Bush and Blair about Iraq? and what Bush and Blair said to the World?  who is now right? Bush and Blair or the World?

Can you all remeber what the world said to Bush and Blair about Iraq? and what Bush and Blair said to the World? who is now right? Bush and Blair or the World?

For the most part? Bush and Blair. “The World” (which is really just a few countries) who was against the invasion were largely in Saddam’s pocket.

[...] I think its fair to say that this poll rather drastically oversampled Democrats. And, given the problems present with other Ipsos polls in the past, I think its fair to say that Ipsos just isn’t a very reliable or trustworthy polling outfit. Its also my personal belief that this poll was purposely skewed to show a new low of public opinion for the President in conjunction with the on going media blitz aimed at tasking him with the sole responsibility for the Katrina disaster. [...]

[...] I have a newsflash for them. It isn’t going to work. The American people voted the President a second term. (As an aside, as all the reports are coming out about voter fraud in 2004, it’s looking like the President’s margin of victory should have been even higher than it was after all the shenanigens in certain states (cough:Wisconsin:cough:Ohio:coughennsylvannia:cough) That’s what we have elections for: To hold the elected offical accountable. And don’t through that AP/Ipsos poll around either. In the last election, voter id was about 37% Republican and 37% Democrat. Any poll that doesn’t have a split like that is biased and therefore inaccurate. And quite honestly, any poll that doesn’t ask only likely to vote or registered voters is bogus, too. Just polling adults, including adults not registered to vote, well, not to put to fine a point on it, but who cares what they think, from a polling perspective, at least, since they have abdicated their voting voice to those of us who do vote. [...]

[...] Rob on Say Anything makes some valid points about the AP poll that the anti-war movement always cites when they want to make the case that they’re now the majority. (h/t: Wizbang) The party affiliation numbers suggest it’s not very representative of either the total or the voting population. He might be going a little too far, however, when he states:The bottom line is, I’m not sure I’m going to be trusting any more of these polls touted by the media. It just doesn’t seem like any of them are really all that representative of the true opinions and feelings of the people.Well, it’s going to be tough knowing the public attitude and values if we stop conducting polls. And you could tell pretty easily that this AP poll wasn’t representative… which suggests that one needn’t necessarily be skeptical of all polls. Let’s try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I’ve helped design a number of academic surveys using reputable firms (like Angus Reid Group) and don’t think it’s wise to paint with such a broad brush. The cell phone problem is real, but there are countermeasures. And refusals that might bias the results have been around for a long time, so the same corrective measures would work with “don’t call” lists. (Legitimate political surveys aren’t included in the national “don’t call” list anyway.)By the way, to point out a problem that Rob didn’t discuss: one thing that I rarely see mentioned in MSM coverage concerning polls that identify approval or disapproval of Bush’s handling of the war is any attempt to distinguish between those who feel we’re not sufficiently invested and those who feel we’re too invested. Believe it or not there are quite a few folks who think Bush is “too liberal,” and that we ought to be not only pressing the war against Syria and Iran, but that we also ought to engage against perfidious Arab media. MSM and the anti-war Left always assume that disapproval signifies “too conservative” (warmongering), which is simply not the case.(Cross-posted by Demosophist to Demosophia, Anticipatory Retaliation and The Jawa Report) [...]

[...] Rob on Say Anything makes some valid points about the AP poll that the anti-war movement always cites when they want to make the case that they’re now the majority. (h/t: Wizbang) The party affiliation numbers suggest it’s not very representative of either the total or the voting population. He might be going a little too far, however, when he states: The bottom line is, I’m not sure I’m going to be trusting any more of these polls touted by the media. It just doesn’t seem like any of them are really all that representative of the true opinions and feelings of the people. [...]